Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!sri-unix!ctnews!pyramid!oliveb!intelca!mipos3!cpocd2!howard From: howard@cpocd2.UUCP (Howard A. Landman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: Hypercard: what's it really worth? Message-ID: <1002@cpocd2.UUCP> Date: Tue, 1-Dec-87 19:50:39 EST Article-I.D.: cpocd2.1002 Posted: Tue Dec 1 19:50:39 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 5-Dec-87 14:24:07 EST References: <6956@ut-ngp.UUCP> <3410@husc6.harvard.edu> <2116@tekcrl.TEK.COM> Reply-To: howard@cpocd2.UUCP (Howard A. Landman) Organization: Intel Corp. ASIC Systems Organization, Chandler AZ Lines: 44 Keywords: Hypercard smalltalk >>In article <6956@ut-ngp.UUCP> osmigo@ut-ngp.UUCP (Ron Morgan) writes: >>>3. Hypertalk is somewhat overrated. True, it's "easier" than C or Pascal, but >>> in no sense of the word is it a "programming language" in the first place. >In article <3410@husc6.harvard.edu> fry@huma1.UUCP (David Fry) writes: >> Exactly what sense of the word (sic) "programming >>language" are thinking about? HyperTalk is descended from a >>respected, high level language (SmallTalk) that is very >>easy to program in. If it's not a programming language, what >>do you think it is? In article <2116@tekcrl.TEK.COM> eirik@crl.TEK.COM (Eirik Fuller) writes: >Tell me, have you ever seen smalltalk? Have you programmed in >smalltalk? I find it far easier to believe that you speak from the >depths of your ignorance on this one, than that you have really used >smalltalk and still believe this. >Smalltalk is several orders of magnitude better as a programming >language than hypertalk. I would possibly begin to believe otherwise >if hypercard were implemented in hypertalk, the way that the smalltalk >environment is implemented in smalltalk. I'll answer for David. Yes I've programmed in Smalltalk, in fact I had a *job* programming in Smalltalk at Xerox PARC. (Of course, it was Smalltalk 76 (and a little 72), not Smalltalk 80, but that's a minor cavil.) I even got briefly to work with Diana Merry, who first implemented overlapping windows (in Smalltalk). It's a wonderful language, so wonderful that a lot of newer languages have borrowed from it, including HyperTalk. Hypertalk is a simpler language than Smalltalk. It doesn't have a class structure, for example. But it's still quite powerful, and in a few ways even superior to Smalltalk (fast find, bitmap compression, closeness to English). I can whip up a Smalltalk application in a few hours to a few days. I can whip up a HyperCard application in a few minutes to a few hours. That's worth something. If I want it to run fast, I'll reprogram it in C! (At least until ParcPlace lowers their prices. Ouch!) -- Howard A. Landman {oliveb,hplabs}!intelca!mipos3!cpocd2!howard howard%cpocd2.intel.com@RELAY.CS.NET "I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't do that."