Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!mcnc!decvax!ucbvax!UUNET.UU.NET!roy%phri
From: roy%phri@UUNET.UU.NET (Roy Smith)
Newsgroups: comp.laser-printers
Subject: Re: LW fuser problems?
Message-ID: <8712172323.AA16192@brillig.umd.edu>
Date: 25 Nov 87 15:54:00 GMT
References: <8711242034.AA21602@brillig.umd.edu>
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: roy%phri@uunet.UU.NET (Roy Smith)
Organization: Public Health Research Inst. (NY, NY)
Lines: 62
Approved: laser-lovers@brillig.umd.edu



In <8711242034.AA21602@brillig.umd.edu> chuq@SUN.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes:
> I was amused by [Mactutor's claim of fuser roller damage in LaserWriters
> from contact with the rubber guides].  Here at Sun we tend to beat LW's
> into the ground [...] I've never seen this on the machines here, and I
> think if this was a 'common' problem it would have shown up by now.

	We have exactly the same problem on one of our LW's.  It's got 70k
copies on it and has developed scratches in the fuser roller where the red
rubber stripper fingers contact it.  These scratches come out as vertical
lines down the length of the paper.  We're a bit peeved that we only got
70k copies out of it, but still think the LW's are fine machines.  We're
not sure what to do with the printer now.  We could just keep it for
throw-away output (other than the vertical lines, the print quality is
still fine), or we could invest the money to get it overhauled.

> Mactutor's well known for barking up trees before getting the facts,
> especially when it looks like they can get some publicity or make Apple
> look bad. [...] For all we know, they're refilling their cartridges with
> bad toner or something, and it's corroding their rollers.

	I've never seen a Mactutor, so for all I know, they may or may not
be the sleazy rag Chuq says they are.  On the other hand, I think in this
case they are 100% correct.  We've seen the problem ourselves, and have
heard mention of it several times in the past (on Laser-Lovers, I think).
It appears to be a well-documented fact that the stripper fingers will
indeed scratch the fuser roller after a while (fastidious cleaning of the
fingers when you change the cartridge is supposed to help).  Also, the
other day, a Cannon repair person was here to fix one of our "xerox"
machines (a fairly new Cannon NP-4035).  The repair person showed me how
the (surprise!) fuser roller was getting messed up by the stripper fingers.
Maybe there is something endemic in the way Cannon designs fuser roller
mechanisms?

	Chuq may be right about the low-grade tonor being a factor.  The
particular LW I have in mind has used genuine Apple or HP virgin cartridges
for the first 50k or so pages of its life; we've recently switched to
refills because we can get them for as low as $45 each, instead of the $100
(or more!) new ones cost.  We now have 4 LW's of various ages, all of which
use only refilled cartridges, but we don't really have enough experience to
say for sure one way or another if refills are the proper way to go.

	A little math (rough numbers, based on our local experience).  A LW
costs $3800; if you get the rated 100k papges, that's 3.8 cents per page in
capital costs.  New cartridges cost $100; if you get the rated 5k pages,
that's 2 cents per page in operating costs.  Refilled cartridges cost $45
and claim to be overfilled, giving 20% more pages (who knows?, let's assume
that's true); if you get the rated 6k pages, that's 0.75 cents per page in
operating costs, or a savings of about 1.25 cents per page, or about 1/3
the capital cost per page.  So, even if using refills does cut down the
life of your printer, as long as it cuts it down by less than a third, you
still come out ahead.  Your mileage may vary.  Final result depends heavily
on local prices, depreciation, relative value of capital and operating
dollars to your organization, cost to rebuild after fuser roller damage,
etc.  Print quality from refills varies.  Most of the time, it's just as
good as new ones.  Sometimes, it's a disaster, in which case we return for
replacement, but still it's an added hassle.
-- 
Roy Smith, {allegra,cmcl2,philabs}!phri!roy
System Administrator, Public Health Research Institute
455 First Avenue, New York, NY 10016