Path: utzoo!hoptoad!ihnp4!laidbak!spl1!ddsw1!karl
From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger)
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: Here it is -- CHAT V1.7
Message-ID: <422@ddsw1.UUCP>
Date: 16 Dec 87 16:39:41 GMT
References: <417@ddsw1.UUCP> <262@papaya.bbn.com>
Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger)
Followup-To: /dev/null
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL
Lines: 105
Summary: phooey!  A flame for you!

In article <262@papaya.bbn.com> rsalz@bbn.com (Rich Salz) writes:
>>...  This contribution is voluntary (no police will call on you if you
>>fail to help out).  Of course, your conscience will haunt you for the rest
>>of your life!...
>>...  In 
>>return for your donation, your name will be added to an electronic mailing 
>>list...
>>		Make sure to include a path for Email from ihnp4.
>
>Guess the author(s) have no conscience, or they'd be bothered by the
>fact that they are using other people's modems and phone bills to make
>money.

Yep, I have no conscience. :-)

*FLAME ON*

I've just been helped to make a decision.  My posting to pubnet.sources (a
very limited distribution to public-access sites) was met with nothing but
nice mail and kudos.... while alt.sources (this is *alt*, fer chrissake!)
gets me blow-torched!

There is nothing in the shareware notice that says you can't use it if 
you don't pay, just that we'd appreciate some help.  Of course I guess
you'd argue that I'd be better off in mailing the > 100 people that I
received requests from a copy ;-)  especially if it went through your
machine ;-) ;-)  

Also, by taking this out of context, you've implied that we send
updates (or copies) via ihnp4.  This aint so.  We send notice of changes
and enhancements -- a 2 or 3 line letter with instructions on where the new
copy is available (on our system, of course).  Quite a difference.

Oh yeah, our gross receipts from 'contributions' to date has been $0.00.  I
have gotten several 'thank you' letters, which are fine.... and no, I
haven't brow-beaten the people who *did* thank us for the code but didn't
contribute.  Ask them -- there are, by my estimate, > 100 sites using this
chat program right now.  I've received a hundred letters or so in the last
few days *begging* for a post to alt.sources.  

So, the answer is -- don't post to alt.sources unless you want to be flamed.
Ok, I'll post my sources to pubnet.sources -- shareware or otherwise.
Anyone who *wants* this "single-minded profiteering-at-others-expense"
distribution of groups is welcome to contact me for a feed of the 'pubnet'
groups.

(My god, what have I just done.... please direct these requests for feeds of
the pubnet groups to usenet@ddsw1.)

And if you're gonna flame me, at least do it in alt.flame!

*FLAME OFF*

>And just to make this posting more than a snipe attack, let me point out
>that there are three SysV chat programs in the FREE comp.sources.unix
>archives -- via pipes, via fifo's.  Contact your nearest archive site,
>or e-mail me for a list of them.
>	/r$

CHAT V1.7 is free too, Rich.  No one said you can't use it if you don't
contribute.  In fact, I made that quite clear in the README file.  No nasty
banner appears on running the program to irk you into coughing up funds (ala
Procomm).  All you've been explicitly prohibited from doing is selling it as
your own.  (I won't bother reproducing the README file, all the sites
which get alt.flame presumably have the alt.sources posting as well).

And to make this more than just a flame, let me point out that I have used
most of the 'other' chat programs, including Marcus Watts' 'Party' program,
and many others.  Chat was written after using these.  It doesn't require 
a "hello I want to type" character, you simply type; yet it keeps you from 
being interrupted while composing your line of text.   It does have some
limitations and shows a rather interesting (not fast, but usable) way of
communicating between processes or with a 'server' process.  

In short, it's a useful piece of code.  Toss it, use it, give it to your
friends, do whatever you want; just don't claim it to be yours and sell it.

If you missed it, you'll have to call our (yes, Rich, free) public-access
system for a copy or find a site with the 'pubnet' groups; I shan't post 
it to alt.? again.  Phone # is below, sign on as 'guest'.  The source you 
seek is in the 'files' area off of the bbs (type 'bbs', then 'files' when 
you are signed on).  Sorry, no anonymous 'uucp' or ftp access is available.

On a completely different topic:

Pubnet is a group of public-access sites which are circulating an alternate 
Usenet distribution.  Currently traffic is very light, and we are accepting 
new connections for these groups (Anyone who asks is welcome to a feed of 
these groups; you will have to poll us.  We are reachable via Pc-Persuit)  
The current set of groups is:

pubnet.sources: 1-8	- Source code for public-access systems.
pubnet.unix: 1-1	- Discussions of Unix, esp. on smaller systems.
pubnet.config: 1-17	- Control discussions (ie: do we create group 'x')
pubnet.wanted: 0	- Wanted messages
pubnet.talk: 1-21	- General banter about PA systems.
pubnet.sysops: 1-4	- Things of interest to sysops. 



-- 

Karl Denninger				UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl
Macro Computer Solutions		Dial : +1 (312) 566-8911 (300-1200)
"Quality solutions at a fair price"	Voice: +1 (312) 566-8910 (24 hrs)