Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!rwojcik From: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik) Newsgroups: comp.ai,sci.lang Subject: Re: Language Learning (anecdotes) Message-ID: <2911@bcsaic.UUCP> Date: Wed, 25-Nov-87 12:09:17 EST Article-I.D.: bcsaic.2911 Posted: Wed Nov 25 12:09:17 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 29-Nov-87 15:58:05 EST References: <1966@uwmacc.UUCP> <12400009@iuvax> <1117@uhccux.UUCP> <1498@cup.portal.com> <1767@culdev1.UUCP> <2059@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> Reply-To: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik) Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 29 Summary: Differences between comprehension & production often ignored Xref: mnetor comp.ai:1166 sci.lang:1725 In article <2059@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> paul@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Paul W. Placeway) writes: >The main point is that (1) 'L'/'R' is a learned CP skill, and (2) many >CP skills do _not_ crystalize: adults can learn them. Some people, of >course, do learn better than others, however. > > -- Paul Placeway Excellent points. Linguistic theory traditionally makes no distinction between comprehension and production. Note that problems in phoneme discrimination parallel problems in pronunciation. The Russian linguist Shvachkin (see Ferguson/Slobin, eds. Studies of Child Language Development, 1973) did the original study on phoneme discrimination in children. Jakobson's Child Language, Aphasia... is based on studies of production. Phoneme discrimination can be learned by adults, but it is far from clear that it ever achieves the state of perfection we find in children. The fact that adults can acquire language skills is irrelevant to the issue of crystallization. The question is over how well they can acquire them. *All* healthy children are language virtuosos. Some adults are pretty good at learning new languages, but it has yet to be established that *any* adult can acquire a new language without accent. Your implication is that adults can acquire perfect phonemic discrimination, but the study you cite falls short of showing this. -- =========== Rick Wojcik rwojcik@boeing.com