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From: ericc@a.cs.okstate.edu (Eric Cloninger)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Salesmen and Manufacturer's responsibility.
Message-ID: <2895@okstate.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 4-Dec-87 18:29:00 EST
Article-I.D.: okstate.2895
Posted: Fri Dec  4 18:29:00 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 11-Dec-87 06:58:05 EST
References: <306@fairlight.oz>
Organization: Oklahoma State Univ., Stillwater
Lines: 108

This last spring and summer, I was a computer salesman at a mid-sized retail
computer store (8 salesmen, 6 technical, 4 management people) dealing in Apple,
IBM, and PC clones.  I would like to throw my $0.02 in regarding sales training.

>> It is high time that Apple got into the support business especially at the 
>> prices charged for their hardware! Just having the operator refer you to 
>> your local dealer is not my idea of support, especially when so many of 
>> them are no where near as technically competent as they should be. 

True.  Most of our "techs" were/are sophomore or junior level Electrical 
Engineering or COMSC majors.  The service manager had just finished his
MIS degree.  The unspoken policy was "get it out the door and let someone 
else worry about it".

Software support was especially hard.  Most of us had used the popular 
software, but something like Mix-it (an agricultural program), was alien to us.
This problem was compounded by lack of software to preview.  Granted, many 
software dealers give demos, but they rarely made it to Stillwater, Oklahoma.  
When I left, our store still had the demo copy of MicroSoft Word 1.0 for the
Macintosh.

> Never was a truer word spoken. I spent some time doing technical support for 
> a distributor here in Australia, and spent almost half my time sorting out
> mis-information, mistakes and ignorance perpetrated by salesmen. There are of
> course exceptions, but the training of computer salesmen leaves alot to be
> desired.

As for salespeople at our store, I was the only one with "formal" computer
training (I'm an MS student in COMSC at OSU).  The other salespeople had all 
'dabbled' with computers in their previous jobs.  They were comfortable selling
things they were familiar with (read: single user systems), but if a customer 
wanted something elaborate, such as an LAN or even a multi-user PC network, the
customer was better off going elsewhere.

> I hear someone at Apple saying it is not their responsibility to train 
> salesmen.

I think I saw our Apple rep twice in six months, but I was _never_ given 
the opportunity to speak with her.  ("Get back on the sales floor.  If she
says anything important, we'll tell you.").  

When the big hoopla surrounding the release of the Mac SE and Mac II hit 
Oklahoma, two of the sales people and the service manager went to sales and 
technical seminars, but I can't say they learned anything.

Q: How much is it going to cost to upgrade my SE to 4 mb?
A: (given by service manager) About $200.00.

Until I started reading otherwise in comp.sys.mac, I took this as gospel.  I
was the only salesperson who read MacUser and MacWeek.  I even read this group
and comp.sys.ibm-pc at least twice a week for new information.  I can't speak 
for anyone but myself, but I did my homework.

> This is true, but I think there should be some effort made to ensure that a
> dealer is providing at least some technical expertise. We do exactly that here
> at Fairlight - the requirements are extremely tough in our case. With all
> high-tech products, a non-technical buyer will believe nearly everything a
> salesman tells them, since the salesman is the purported expert. It reflects
> on the PRODUCT when a salesman sells a system that does not perform in the way
> promised.
 
One of the aspects of selling equipment in an area populated by farmers and
non-technical people is that they will buy almost anything you show them.  
This is quite often a problem.  More than one proud parent was ready to invest
a mint in their child without knowing what they were buying.  An ambitious
or unethical salesperson would have a heyday around here.  

What was worse was to see someone say they paid $1200 for a used Apple II+ 
with a used Epson printer (or similar equipment) and now they needed help 
using it.  From the store's viewpoint, they were on their own since they didn't 
buy it from us.  Quite often I would meet these people at their home and give 
them a 4 or 5 hour lesson for $20 - $25.

> Often, I found that mistakes made by salesmen were not intentional but were
> simply due to a lack of knowledge. Perhaps it is time for manufacturers to
> provide some form of training scheme oriented towards salesmen selling their
> products.  This would make life easier for everyone - the buyer, the salesman
> and the manufacturer.

Risking the possibility of making a rash generalization, I don't think all the
blame can be laid on the manufacturers.  Some of it, yes.  When our Apple rep
came to the store on her quarterly visit, she spoke with the management only.
However, our IBM representative was most helpful.  He talked to the salespeople
about services offered by IBM to retailers and sales methods.  He even sold 
some product.  I'm not trying to flame Apple.  As far as equipment goes, I 
don't think there is much better (certainly not Big Blue).

I think a good deal of the blame lies with management trying to cut costs.  We
quit having our weekly sales meeting because management didn't like paying the
sales people for time not on the sales floor or on sales calls (the meetings 
were rarely longer than 30 minutes).  I realize the purpose of any business is
to make money, but it doesn't do any good if the salesmen can't sell.

I'm sure someone out there will think I'm full of s__t, but that's OK.  These
thoughts were the personal observations of a naive (from the business 
viewpoint) salesperson.  Who knows, maybe my opinion will change, but I don't
think we can blame Apple (or IBM or any manufacturer) and yet ignore the idiots 
behind retail management.


Eric Cloninger
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