Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bbn!oberon!pollux.usc.edu!kurtzman
From: kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: support for older machines & Re: MultiFinder RAMDisks
Message-ID: <5488@oberon.USC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 2-Dec-87 02:20:29 EST
Article-I.D.: oberon.5488
Posted: Wed Dec  2 02:20:29 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 5-Dec-87 11:00:07 EST
References: <1927@unc.cs.unc.edu> <6664@apple.UUCP> <5104@oberon.USC.EDU> <14543@felix.UUCP> <5431@oberon.USC.EDU> <6863@apple.UUCP>
Sender: nobody@oberon.USC.EDU
Reply-To: kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 84

In article <6863@apple.UUCP> tecot@apple.UUCP (Ed Tecot) writes:
>In article <5431@oberon.USC.EDU> kurtzman@pollux.usc.edu (Stephen Kurtzman) writes:
>>True. I have the option of using the new standard system software, or the
>>old software that is provided for compatibility with older systems.

>No, you can simply run the new system software in the single program mode.
>This IS release software, not a compatibility kluge.  Multifinder provides
>a benefit to those who need or want it.  I suppose next you'll argue that
>you can't run HD20SC Setup on your floppy drives to make them 20 meg.

Did I attack you? Why are you trying to insult me?

>>This is no argument. The fact is, HyperCard is a standard piece of software.
>So is MacWrite.  But I wouldn't force you to use it.

Let me put it a slightly different way. I just shelled out money for an SE
with an imagewriter and a modem. According to the literature and the Apple
authorized dealers, this configuration is the middle-of-the-line. When I bought
my system it could run all of the Apple standard software. Less than 90 days
later it cannot. Since Apple has released Multifinder and Hypercard as standard
system software (and not as separate products) that makes me think that Apple
considers a Macintosh running Multifinder and Hypercard as their standard
system. Voila, I am substandard. Why do I think this? Because I have seen
other computer companies do this same sort of thing while phasing out smaller
configurations.

>>Apple could have put a little effort into making Multifinder smaller.
>>The fact that Multifinder is an excessive memory hog has been well documented
>>in this forum. They could also have made HyperCard a little smaller, or at
>>least segmented it so that it could run in something less the 750K!
>>(It took a lot of will power not to use an explitive between "750" and "K").
>
>You're very confused.  MultiFinder is not a memory hog.  MultiFinder only
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Another insult.

>needs about 80K to do it's work.  What really happens is that most applications
>are memory hogs.  MultiFinder simply divides up the space avaliable for
>the applications.  If you have 400K available, and the application
>requires 500K, MultiFinder can't load it.  Likewise, I can drive a Chevy S-10,
>and I can remove the tires.  But I can't drive it with the tires off, even
>though both are standard operations.  (Are you starting to pick up on the
                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>analogy?)
^^^^^^^^^^

Another insult.

>HyperCard only requires 750K when you are scripting.  It can get buy on
>less if you lower your user level.  Reread my Chevy analogy before making
>flames.  The rule is simple - you need more to do more.
 ^^^^^^

Another insult.

Whether it is MultiFinder that is the hog or the combination of Multifinder
and the System, it is a fact that Hypercard can run under the Finder, but
Hypercard cannot run under Multifinder and remain fully functional.

Earlier in this conversation thread another Apple employee displayed a
condescending attitude toward people who expressed disapproval of the
increased memory requirements for the new set of standard software. If I take
your comments and those of the other Apple employee as exemplary of Apple's
attitude (and I do since you both posted as Apple employees) then I can only
assume that Apple is really callous to my concerns that Apple will drop support
for my machine.

Now, as for flaming: I posted a serious note about what I perceive
as Apple reducing support for the machine I just bought. You are free
to disagree.

*FLAME ON*

The tenor of your reply is totally inappropriate in this forum and for your
position as a representative of Apple. You only do Apple harm when you foster
ill will by insulting customers. If I knew of this hostile attitude by Apple
employees before buying my Macintosh, I might not have bought it. So what,
only one sale you may say. If you feel that way, then I suggest you take it
up with your supervisor or John Scully. In any event I suggest you discuss
your attitude with your supervisor. If you worked for me, at the very least,
you would be severely reprimanded for insulting the customers. And I would
probably prohibit you from posting to the net from the Apple machine.

*FLAME OFF*