Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!rutgers!husc6!huma1!fry From: fry@huma1.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: Hypercard: what's it really worth? Message-ID: <3410@husc6.harvard.edu> Date: Sun, 29-Nov-87 04:37:59 EST Article-I.D.: husc6.3410 Posted: Sun Nov 29 04:37:59 1987 Date-Received: Tue, 1-Dec-87 05:17:12 EST References: <6956@ut-ngp.UUCP> Sender: news@husc6.harvard.edu Reply-To: fry@huma1.UUCP (David Fry) Organization: Harvard Math Department Lines: 113 Keywords: Hypercard In article <6956@ut-ngp.UUCP> osmigo@ut-ngp.UUCP (Ron Morgan) writes: > >I have the following comments, mostly negative, to make about Hypercard, >for what it's worth. > >1. I agree with the MacUser author that it's being foisted upon the market > without passing the litmus test of retail competition. One can only > speculate how far Hypercard would get if it were quietly slipped onto > retail shelves for $295.00. I think HyperCard would sell quite well for $295. It is totally unlike any other application and it might take awhile for the market to figure out exactly what it's good for, but that's why it's so wonderful of Apple to practically give it away. People can experiment with it and make it into a standard, avoiding a chicken-and-the-egg syndrome while people wait for proof of why they should buy it. >2. Its consumption of bytes is horrifying, both in the RAM and on the disk. > A full-blown, heavy-duty Hyperperson (what a concept, eh?) would need at > least 2 megs of RAM and a 20 meg hard disk just to stay alive. I resent > the way this kind of thing is vogue these days, and find it hard to > believe that it's not being done deliberately, to stimulate sales of > higher-capacity systems, as well as to arbitrarily define the market in > ways of questionable benefit to the consumers, e.g., Hypercard making > DA's obsolete within a year or two. I agree that a 20MB hard drive is very useful for HC, but I think a 20MB hard drive is very useful for just about anything useful on a computer. They are cheap enough now that a lot of people are getting them. But this 2MB of RAM is pretty much nonsense. I use HC in a 750K partition under MultiFinder and I've never encountered a problem. Why do people think HC needs so much memory? HC files certainly are large, but it's basically a case of "you get what you pay for." >3. Hypertalk is somewhat overrated. True, it's "easier" than C or Pascal, but > in no sense of the word is it a "programming language" in the first place. Exactly what sense of the word (sic) "programming language" are thinking about? HyperTalk is descended from a respected, high level language (SmallTalk) that is very easy to program in. If it's not a programming language, what do you think it is? > MacUser/World often tend to glamorize new software with lots of tinsel- > and-glitter foofooraw. You may recall the front-cover spotlighting of > MacSpin, yet how many people are using it? Just a couple of months ago, > right on the front cover: "Visual Interactive Programming: The Wave of the > Future." Those guys have had more "waves of the future" than Jeanne Dixon. > I'll change my mind when somebody writes a flight simulator in Hypertalk. I certainly agree that the magazines will jump on any bandwagon that comes along, but that's their job :-). Back to HyperTalk, you won't see a flight simulator in HyperTalk because it is interpreted and it doesn't allow easy access to the hardware. No one ever said you could write a flight simulator in HyperTalk, nor can you write one in Basic but it's still userful. This morning I made some simple changes to the Address stack that comes with HyperCard and now I have a stack that stores my students names, addresses, phone numbers, and grades for all the assignments. Lastly, clicking on a button draws a simple scatter chart to determine the bell curve for assigning letter grades. This took about 45 minutes to set up. That's why people like HyperCard. > Furthermore, I doubt that the "ease" of learning/using Hypertalk (and it's > no mean feat to do so, relying solely on the HELP card or the manual, > neither of which addresses the subject in depth) will be that big an > advantage for the business user. Most professional businessmen I know > are far, far too busy to learn a language and twiddle away their time > writing "button programs." They just want to go click-click and get > their Cash Flow Indexes. > > That is, if they COULD learn it. I've known a number of business computer > consultants to laugh with me over lunch, chortling about how they charged > some high-priced executive $25 an hour for teaching him how to drag an icon. You can't please all the people all the time. For those who can't drag icons I have no answer. For those that don't want to buy an extra book to help with HyperTalk, I suggest that they part with the bucks; you'll like it. For those who are too busy to write "button programs," I've never met anyone too busy to make their system more efficient. Keep in mind, though, that HyperCard is not meant to replace Excel, which is perfect for Cash Flow Indices. >4. In my opinion, Hypercard's most salient innovation is its way of getting > around, but even that's not special. Just click on a box for the next > subject. It's not all that different from the Guidance DA on Pagemaker 2.0. > It's been suggested that Hypercard is really here to pervade the market in > preparation for the introduction of CD's, for which it would be ideally > suited. However, in presenting Hypercard as a magical, omnipotent, do- > everything application that will replace everything but the kitchen sink, > Apple may be setting an otherwise "nice" application up for failure. No > Hypercard application is going to even come close to surpassing its stand- > alone software equivalent, and what with Finder-substitute DA's such as > DiskTools II and DiskTop that let you flick from one application to the > next in seconds, I wonder if Atkinson, having blown 3 precious years on > this monstrosity, is trying to become the Steve Jobs of programming. HC is not meant to be a Finder-substitute, so what does this have to do with anything? And what do you mean by the remark "Steve Jobs of programming?" I think that would be a wonderful compliment for just about anyone, but programmers of Atkinson's level need no compliments. His monstrosity is not perfect, but it is the first example of what will (hopefully) be a large part of future computing. All people need to do is recognize its limitations. Frankly, your comments make me wonder if you've even used HyperCard. David Fry fry@huma1.harvard.EDU Department of Mathematics fry@harvma1.bitnet Harvard University ...!harvard!huma1!fry Cambridge, MA 02138