Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!think!ames!ptsfa!well!jjacobs
From: jjacobs@well.UUCP (Jeffrey Jacobs)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Subject: Re: FORTRAN,ADA
Message-ID: <4732@well.UUCP>
Date: 15 Dec 87 04:15:24 GMT
Reply-To: jjacobs@well.UUCP (Jeffrey Jacobs)
Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA
Lines: 46


>In article <332@siemens.UUCP>, steve@siemens.UUCP (Steve Clark) writes:
>> ... Will Common Lisp be the Fortran of Lisp?

>No, CommonLisp is more like the Ada of Lisps.  A standardized committee
>effort, designed to include everything including the kitchen sink.

I have to disagree; Common LISP is the PL/I of Lisps.  Too big and
too incomprehensible, with no examiniation of the real world of
software engineering.

ADA, while it has is problems, is a very well though out, well constructed
language.  The process that resulted in ADA and the process that resulted
in Common LISP are worlds apart, the only similarity is the use of the
term "committee".  The CL effort resembles a bunch of spoiled children,
each insisting "include my feature or I'll pull out, and then we'll all
go down the tubes".  Everybody had vested interests, both financial
and emotional.

CL is a nightmare; it has effectively killed LISP development in this
country.  It is not commercially viable and has virtually no future
outside of the traditional academic/defense/research arena.  It should
be embarassing to everybody in the field that most shells and tools are
no longer written in LISP.

To quote Dick Gabriel, the "father of Common LISP":

"Common Lisp is a significantly ugly language.  If Guy and I had been locked
in a room, you can bet it wouldn't have turned out like that" - WESTEX 86
(or maybe 85).  Dick has also stated that the attempt to make Common LISP
a commercial standard is a disaster.

(One must in fairness point out that a father is not totally responsible for
his offsprings behaviour).

ADA, despite it's problems, is o well thought out, engineered language.
Any comparision with CL is odious; but comparing CL to PL/I, that incredibly
ancient monster, is perfect...
 Jeffrey M. Jacobs
 CONSART Systems Inc.
 Technical and Managerial Consultants
 P.O. Box 3016, Manhattan Beach, CA 90266
 (213)376-3802
 CIS:75076,2603
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 USENET: jjacobs@well.UUCP