Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!bbn!uwmcsd1!ig!jade!ucbvax!dewey.soe.berkeley.edu!oster
From: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: List manager, etc.
Message-ID: <22063@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Sat, 5-Dec-87 10:49:34 EST
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.22063
Posted: Sat Dec  5 10:49:34 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 10-Dec-87 06:24:41 EST
References: <4693@cit-vax.Caltech.Edu> <2043@uwmacc.UUCP> <3487@hoptoad.uucp>
Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu.UUCP (David Phillip Oster)
Organization: School of Education, UC-Berkeley
Lines: 83

In article <3487@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes:
>There's no reason you can't create a text edit field exactly the size of the
>list cell, which would look to the user as if it were the list cell.  When
>there's a click, copy the field into a text edit record.  When another cell
>gets clicked, convert from the text edit record back into the cell. 

For months,  I've actually been using a program I wrote that works this way.

I manage the mailing list for a folk club, and I need reports sorted in
zip code order and in alphabetical order by last name, and mailing labels
in zip code order. The Alpha sort routine has to ignore "Jr." and "III".
The woman who does the typing has been using the Mac so long
that she naturally uses MacASCII when appropriate, so the file is full of
names that have foreign letters in it.

I didn't want to burden the folk club with the need for expensive software,
so I wrote my own. As Tim says, it uses a list of text records, but if you
select one for editing, it turns into a text edit record without any visual
indication. The Dialog Manager, and HyperCard use a similar scheme to time
slice one text edit record across multiple editable text fields.

Since the club only has 2000 to 5000 names on its list, list manager's 32767
item limit has not been a problem.

This software works, and I use it, but it still has some rough edges (The
disk error mesages aren't as clear as I would like, since it is just for me,
it only handles one size of label.)

If I thought there was some interest in it, I'd release it as shareware,
with a $15.00 use fee, and source code avaliable for $100.00 (I've already
had customers for the source at that price.)

The folk club mailing list isn't mine to sell, but if you are interested in
buying that, I could put you in touch with the club's governing board.

Should I rewrite my software as a hypercard script?

Advantages:

fast searching
no size limits

Disadvantages:

I've been planning to add incremental searching (searching while you type
the search string.) and two lists side by side. One client wants to type
in names from a handwritten list, and have the software chime for a unique
match against the master list, and copy the name to the second list. It'll
beep if it can't find any matching names in the master list. That will let her
use the handwritten list to create a subset from the handwritten list, mostly
without looking at the screen. Then she'll print the subset list.
I don't know how to do this in Hypercard.
This client also has an old fat mac that she can't afford to upgrade, so if
I use hypercard, she won't be able to run it anyway.


Since I use the list manaager, the typist can see many records all at once,
each on its own single line. (The get expanded to 2 to 5 lines at print time.)
I don't know how to fit this in with the "a record is a card" philosphy
of hypercard.

The search keys are fairly complex:
the one for zip code order is:
take the last token on the last line as a zip code (the mailing list is
a local Berkeley one, so I don't have to worry about foreign conventions.
This makes mis-entered data show up well in the print outs.) If two zip codes
match, then compare last names:
a last name is the last token on the first line. If the last token ends in a
period character, or is in a list of illegal last names: ("II, III, IV, V")
and there is a previous token on the line, then try that one.
If two last names match, then compare the two records as text.

I've also been asked to produce reports that are sorted by zip first,
then by street name, then by street number, then by last name, so the 
folk club can find multiple mailings to similar addresses.

Once again, it seems easier to just write it than to write it in HyperCard.

What are other people using?

--- David Phillip Oster            -- This sentence is a lifelike replica of
Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu -- one by Douglas Hofstadter.
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu