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From: jdh@bsu-cs.UUCP (John Hiday)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Version Numbers (Re: The Next Generation)
Message-ID: <1604@bsu-cs.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Nov-87 16:27:34 EST
Article-I.D.: bsu-cs.1604
Posted: Fri Nov 27 16:27:34 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Nov-87 23:34:42 EST
References: <5294@ccicpg.UUCP> <2803@cbmvax.UUCP> <516@mcdsun.UUCP> <1570@bsu-cs.UUCP> <1120@sugar.UUCP>
Reply-To: jdh@bsu-cs.UUCP (John Hiday)
Organization: Ball State University UCS, Muncie, IN
Lines: 96

In article <586@trwspf.TRW.COM> dragon@trwspf.UUCP (Roger Vossler) writes:
>In article <1570@bsu-cs.UUCP> jdh@bsu-cs.UUCP (John Hiday) writes:
>*Reading about protecting me from myself has reminded me of a VMS
>*feature which I sorely miss on my Amiga -- version numbers on files.
>*
>[deleted explanation of how version numbers worked]
>*
>*To keep things tidy (so that you don't fill an entire disk with every
>*version of a file made in the past 10 years) the number of backup
>*versions that the system should retain is a user controllable file
>*attribute.
>
>The trouble was that users tend not to delete anything until forced
>to do so at gunpoint. The result was that disks filled up quickly
>and systems administrators went mad trying to stem the tide. I
>sincerely hope I never see a version number on a file again. But
>that's only my opinion - no flames, please.
>
> [stuff about version numbers invented to sell more disks deleted...]


In article <1120@sugar.UUCP> peter@sugar.UUCP (Peter da Silva) writes:
>
>Please. No. I have never used a system with version numbers where their
>main contribution hasn't been to fill up the disk (or your disk quota).
>On a system where the main magnetic media consists of floppies, it'd be
>even more of a loss. Just *maybe*, if you did it for hard disks only
>it'd be OK.

Like it or not, the Amiga is slowly moving away from floppy only, towards
hard disks (at least for advanced users).  I currently do not have a hard
disk, but I would still find it useful.  As I said before, IT IS USER
CONTROLLABLE.

>
>$ TYPE LOGOUT.COM	[ I think he means something like EDIT, not TYPE]
>* Command not quite remembered from a year ago.
>$ PURGE /KEEP=1 [...]
>$
>Which kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Sure, but who told you to do the PURGE?  EDIT GOODFILE.DAT followed
by DELETE GOODFILE.DAT kind of defeats the purpose too, but who
would be stupid enough to do that (at least on purpose).  Don't
PURGE the file right away unless you are positive that you haven't
screwed up.

>A much better solution is for people to do frequent backups. Version
>numbers won't help you deal with a disk crash.

This is certainly not a replacement for good backups, but you tell me
which is faster -- going through a stack of backup floppies hoping that
a good version is there or doing a DELETE OOPS.DAT; and going back to
the previous un-botched version?

I can't believe this stuff!  I consider most of the Amiga users on the
net to be power-users and here I get two semi-flames about how the users
would be too stupid to be able to handle a nice feature like this.

It's very simple.  If you think that this concept is over your head
simply do:
	$ SET DIR [TOPDIR...]/VERSION_LIMIT=1
	$ SET FILE [TOPDIR...]*.*;*/VERSION_LIMIT=1
and you are back in Unix(tm) land with only one copy of each file.

I am one of the systems programmers on a large VAXcluster.  On this
system we have 17,000 accounts and over 6Gb of disk space.  About 1500
people use the system on any given day.  I would say that 99.9% of
our users are far from power-users in any sense of the word, yet
most can comprehend the proper use of the PURGE command when it is
explained to them.

It is a very simple operation for the system administrators to keep
people from filling up disks with old versions.  When the account
is created simply create their default directory with a small version
limit on it (here we use 2, good copy plus one backup).  This limit
then propagates to all directories and files created in that tree
unless the user explicitly changes it.  This seems to work with
even those people who think there is a VAX in each and every
terminal :-)  If that fails their diskquota will always catch
them long before they come anywhere near filling a disk.

Well enough of this VMS talk.  Just add the feature and make the
default be /VERSION_LIMIT=1.  That way all the "stupid" users won't
fill up their disks while the people who can handle it have the
capability.

I'm sorry if this offended anyone, but this type of response seems
really out of character in a group which is usually so high on the
guru scale, especially since at least one of the respondents is
a main contributor of guru type posts.

-- 
== John Hiday                UUCP: !{iuvax,pur-ee,uunet}!bsu-cs!jdh
== Ball State University / University Computing Services        GEnie: JDHIDAY
== Muncie, IN 47306