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From: elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Re: Computer Science: where it belongs
Message-ID: <2232@killer.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 27-Nov-87 21:07:11 EST
Article-I.D.: killer.2232
Posted: Fri Nov 27 21:07:11 1987
Date-Received: Mon, 30-Nov-87 01:37:34 EST
References: <3355@ames.arpa> <3807@eecae.UUCP> <16216@bu-cs.BU.EDU>
Reply-To: elg@killer.UUCP (Eric Green)
Organization: Bayou Telecommunications
Lines: 62

In article <16216@bu-cs.BU.EDU> cd@bu-cs.UUCP (Clarence K. Din) writes:
>In article <3807@eecae.UUCP> lawitzke@eecae.UUCP (John Lawitzke) writes:
>>Any body feel like commenting on the causes of the lack of math skills
>>of incoming freshman? Primarily those who get to college and can't do
>>trig or basic analytical geometry?
>     I know of several individuals in the computer science and engineering
>programs in Boston University who have never taken trigonometry in high
>school.  These same individuals cannot grasp even the basic fundamentals
>of abstract math theory, including induction and fixed-point calculation.

Most probably because their math teachers in elementary and high schools could
barely count their toes on their feet, and certainly would not have been able
to explain oddities like the fact that digits are not numbers, etc. etc.
etc...  if one has never before encountered the abstract, facing the abstract
becomes quite a challenge. All in all, most experts agree that math education
for the average U.S. child is abysimal (see various studies contrasting U.S.
students against e.g. European students).

>     I'm sure you've heard of Brooklyn Technical High School in New York.
>I received a good education there; my schedule usually included approxi-
>mately 7 subjects a day every day distributed over 8 periods of 45 minutes
>each.  Among my courses were mathematics, three "pre-engineering," social
>science (such as economics or history), english, and an elective (which
>was usually forced upon the student).

Unfortunately, only 2% of the U.S. lives within hour's distance of Brooklyn,
and there are no such schools in the 2% of the U.S. that I live in
(Louisiana). Trigonometry is offered here, but that's the highest that it
goes. As for "pre-engineering", etc., HAH! Teachers here are hard pressed to
teach their students how to read and write and add 2+2, except in the elite
schools in the suburbs which get all the money because rich politician's
children go to school there (thankfully, 60% of La. school funding is
state-provided under a strict per-student formula, or things would be even
worse).  The biggest challenge is the lack of qualified teachers in non-elite
schools, due to the salary inequities and crumbling lab equipment and large
student-teacher ratios etc... no matter how much dedication and perseverence a
teacher has, he/she must eat, too. The only thing a parent can do currently,
besides politicking (and parent pro-education groups are hot'n'heavy here), is
move to the suburbs. It concerns me greatly that the lower 30/40% of the
income bracket doesn't have that option, dooming their children to, at best, a
merely adequate education, despite whatever talent that child has.

Many of my friends are from overseas (about 60% of the CS enrollment at my
university is non-American). I was talking to one person from a mid-east
country (before all the troubles there that led to the retraction of most of
those students), and he mentioned that by the time he had graduated from high
school, he'd taken two years of Calculus. He started taking Algebra etc. in
either the 6th or 7th grade, I don't remember which. I think it's a shame that
we take 8 years to teach our kids just how to add, subtract, multiply, and
divide, and that many of our "gifted and talented" students are turned off by
"math" because it is "repetitive and mechanical" (a quote from the
co-ordinator of the Lafayette Parish Gifted & Talented Program). Until we
start teaching our elementary school teachers mathematics instead of
arithmetic, and until we expect them to challenge our best students instead of
boring them, I think you'll continue to find that the majority of American
students simply are not prepared to take mathematics courses on the college
level. 

--
     Eric Green   elg@usl.CSNET      Snail Mail P.O. Box 92191       
     {cbosgd,ihnp4}!killer!elg       Lafayette, LA 70509             
Hello darkness my old friend, I've come to talk withordeordeoh ih i