Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!hoptoad!amdcad!decwrl!ucbvax!jade!ig!uwmcsd1!uwvax!oddjob!gargoyle!ddsw1!karl
From: karl@ddsw1.UUCP
Newsgroups: alt.flame
Subject: Re: A new oxymoron: "Stable Microport system"
Message-ID: <389@ddsw1.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 2-Dec-87 14:04:45 EST
Article-I.D.: ddsw1.389
Posted: Wed Dec  2 14:04:45 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 6-Dec-87 19:56:27 EST
References: <445@nuchat.UUCP>
Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.UUCP (Karl Denninger)
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL
Lines: 115
Keywords: Microport, bugs, crashes, fed up, argh!
Summary: Microport STILL can't get it right

In article <445@nuchat.UUCP> jaym@nuchat.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes:
(Major flamage about Microport's problems and such)

Early disclaimer:
	The following are my opinions.  Use accordingly.

First, the 'wn' error problem:
  This is a legitimate hardware problem.  Try swapping controllers, if that
  doesn't work, swap drives.  We have seen this one on several systems, and
  on each one, there was a marginal controller or drive in the system.

Now, on to the fun stuff.

Well, you have another user here who has the panic problem too.  I've
found that there are basically three solutions:

1) Wire a watch-dog timer on the system, so that if you double-panic in
   the kernel routine 'rmsd' (remove serial device) the machine will reboot.
   Then modify your 'rc' files so that the system goes back to init 2 by
   itself. (oh yeah, you need a daemon to do an 'out' every minute or so for
   the watchdog).  This at least won't leave your system down if it blows up.

2) NEVER make a file-system with over 100K blocks on it, in fact, the actual
   limit is probably lower..... this prevents fsck from killing your disk if
   you should panic and reboot while unattended (you will panic if you run
   Microport, trust me....)

3) If you haven't already bought a '286 or '386 Unix, buy SCO.  Their product
   doesn't destroy your file systems and panic once a day.  They also don't 
   take 2 weeks to ship product.


**** FLAME ON! ****

[This goes back to 1.3.6 last November, so there's a lot of 
 steam to blow off here!  Wear asbestos jackets!]

Microport, you people are really out of this world.  We have yelled at you
so many times about the panics that we're blue in the face.  In fact, I
don't even bother calling anymore, because all you tell me is that my
hardware is broken.  It *is not* broken -- your drivers are.  I have used
the product on three *different* systems, (yes, one at a time) and every one
exhibits the EXACT same behavior.  

We have 2.3.0, and it *STILL* panics.  It *STILL* drops characters at even
2400 baud.  UUCP *STILL* times out because your driver can't manage to
receive packets without losing parts of them.  'shl', which you provided
with 2.3.0, panics the system if used from a serial line.  Wonderful.

You promised me, and a bunch of other people, FIXES to these problems in
V2.3.0.  You even got my support money for the "upgrade".  I paid my $99 for
the ability to specify a kernel at boot time (a'la Xenix).  The number of
'fatal' problems that I have seen truly RESOLVED with 2.3.0?  ZERO.  I feel 
like stopping payment on our check - since I did not receive what I was 
promised with this "upgrade".

In V2.3.0, you have:
o Given us a 'new improved' ANSI terminfo entry that doesn't work, and
  causes even simple things like 'vi' to blow up.  Did you guys even test
  this at all?  Doesn't look like you even edited a file!  We went back to a
  hacked V1.3.6 terminfo entry (yes, that one was wrong too, but less wrong)
  It appears that your firm enhanced the ANSI driver in the console
  interface, but didn't debug it -- thus it doesn't work as you expected.

o Renamed the sio driver to 'asy', but apparently little else, since it
  still panics every couple of days in 'rmsd', at the EXACT same offset that
  it used to.  You also juggled interrupt priorities internally, which was
  obvious as soon as we tried to put a com 3 board on int 5 -- and it's
  unusable at 1200 baud!  This attempt at interrupt-juggling did *not* solve
  the problem -- just rearranged the distribution of occurrances.

o Introduced a new bug -- 'flsetdma' -- floppy access now occasionally
  gives this message, followed by a panic a few seconds later.  This is a
  new problem -- but it makes floppy file-systems impossible!

o Changed something in the panic handling -- now the system will sometimes
  (about 1/2 of the time) reboot spontaneously (and immediately) after a 
  panic.  This means that we *CANT EVEN DETERMINE WHERE IT'S CRASHING*.

We're getting tired of the run-around, people.  We're ALREADY tired of the
2-week wait for product.  We're sick of being told "it's fixed in this
release", when it is *NOT*.  

We're shopping for a 80386 Unix -- will be buy (and resell) yours?  Somehow
I doubt it.  If we do, we'll need something concrete to protect ourselves --
like a 90-day evaluation during which we can test, retest, and check -- and
only THEN cough up the cash.  Then again, I doubt that this much trouble is
worth it -- SCO Xenix V/386 is only a few hundred more, and Interactive and
Bell Tech both have ports for sale which are competitive with yours.....

SCO can ship product within 72 hours.  You take 2-3 weeks, EVERY TIME.  You 
are *always* backordered, out of stock, or just plain slow.

"Service and support?  What's that?"

By the way, we're using Televideo Tele-cat 286 and Tele-386 hardware with
your 80286 product -- the Telecat is listed as a SUPPORTED system -- meaning
that it supposedly passed QA/QC.  Did it really ever receive any of either?

*** FLAME OFF ***

This entire situation is even more ludicrous when one considers that it is
not impossible to produce a decent Unix for small systems.  We've just
obtained SCO Xenix/386 -- and it's REALLY NICE.  No panics, no surprises, no
glitches, no nothing -- except solid performance.

And before someone screams "your hardware is broken, that's why Microport
blows up" remember that this same hardware is now running Xenix V/386 --
with ZERO problems.

-- 

Karl Denninger				UUCP : ...ihnp4!ddsw1!karl
Macro Computer Solutions		Dial : +1 (312) 566-8911 (300-1200)
"Quality solutions at a fair price"	Voice: +1 (312) 566-8910 (24 hrs)