Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!uwvax!uwmacc!rick From: rick@uwmacc.UUCP (the absurdist) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: APDA - any satisfied customers? Message-ID: <2039@uwmacc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 27-Nov-87 11:49:32 EST Article-I.D.: uwmacc.2039 Posted: Fri Nov 27 11:49:32 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 29-Nov-87 22:06:00 EST References: <1228@runx.ips.oz> <17000073@clio> Reply-To: rick@unix.macc.wisc.edu.UUCP (The Absurdist) Organization: UW-Madison Academic Computer Center Lines: 54 In article <17000073@clio> berger@clio.las.uiuc.edu writes: > >It still sounds like a scam. If they're the ONLY official source for >Apple documentation, and you have to pay a membership fee, that's an >inherent part of the cost of using your computer. It's rather stupid >to tell people to live without it, if you can't get the documentation >any other way. Computers are PROGRAMMABLE. That's one of the main >reasons for buying one. Sorry, but this is not so. Very few users program computers any more; most run applications programs. There are SOME users who want to program them. These people can buy, from Addison-Wesley, a five volume set of programming information on the Macintosh, written by Apple. They can get, FOR FREE, an extensive set of technical notes from many user's groups and electronic networks, without going to APDA at all. A great many people on this net did a lot of programming without any APDA products at all, so the assertion that APDA prevents you from programming is clearly unsupportable. The only thing APDA has a monopoly on is the distribution of unsupported, draft and/or beta versions of Apple products. These are available through the mail at a reasonable price. APDA did have distribution problems when they started up, but this isn't all that unusual in the computer industry. Others have complained that their 3rd party product prices aren't the cheapest possible. Well, you can certainly buy these elsewhere. APDA probably doesn't do sufficient volume in many of these to get the cheapest price. I have bought these at the higher price, on occasion, simply because the price difference wasn't enough to justify the additional cost of writing and processing another purchase order. Finally, APDA is an organization which has no equivalent that I know of in the microcomputer industry. Does IBM provide any drafts of documentation at all? No. Does Microsoft, or Lotus, or Ashton-Tate, or Borland? No. You have to wait for the release version. (Which may be as buggy as a beta, but for which you pay full price...). As for Commodore, I once tried to apply for a developer's kit for the University. Here we are, holder of IBM's single largest grant to any University for micro development; holder of a substantial Apple grant; beta site for several programs; test site for early versions of DEC workstation products -- Commodore wants a proposal detailing whether or not we're SERIOUS developers before they will consider whether or not they will allow us to BUY a buggy compiler and draft documentation. I did not continue my efforts to get us involved in the Amiga. (I don't know what Atari does for developers). APDA is just fine by me: RA for Apple and APDA both. -- Rick Keir -- all the oysters have moved away -- UWisc - Madison "Watch the skies...."