Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!husc6!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!ssc-vax!bcsaic!rwojcik
From: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik)
Newsgroups: comp.ai,sci.lang
Subject: Re: Language Learning (anecdotes)
Message-ID: <2911@bcsaic.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 25-Nov-87 12:09:17 EST
Article-I.D.: bcsaic.2911
Posted: Wed Nov 25 12:09:17 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 29-Nov-87 15:58:05 EST
References: <1966@uwmacc.UUCP> <12400009@iuvax> <1117@uhccux.UUCP> <1498@cup.portal.com> <1767@culdev1.UUCP> <2059@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu>
Reply-To: rwojcik@bcsaic.UUCP (Rick Wojcik)
Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle
Lines: 29
Summary: Differences between comprehension & production often ignored
Xref: mnetor comp.ai:1166 sci.lang:1725

In article <2059@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu> paul@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Paul W. Placeway) writes:
>The main point is that (1) 'L'/'R' is a learned CP skill, and (2) many
>CP skills do _not_ crystalize: adults can learn them.  Some people, of
>course, do learn better than others, however.
>
>		 -- Paul Placeway

Excellent points.  Linguistic theory traditionally makes no distinction
between comprehension and production.  Note that problems in phoneme
discrimination parallel problems in pronunciation.  The Russian linguist
Shvachkin (see Ferguson/Slobin, eds. Studies of Child Language
Development, 1973) did the original study on phoneme discrimination in
children.  Jakobson's Child Language, Aphasia... is based on studies of
production.  

	Phoneme discrimination can be learned by adults, but it is
far from clear that it ever achieves the state of perfection we find in
children.  The fact that adults can acquire language skills is
irrelevant to the issue of crystallization.  The question is over how
well they can acquire them.  *All* healthy children are language virtuosos.
Some adults are pretty good at learning new languages, but it has yet to
be established that *any* adult can acquire a new language without
accent.  Your implication is that adults can acquire perfect phonemic
discrimination, but the study you cite falls short of showing this.

-- 

===========
Rick Wojcik   rwojcik@boeing.com