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Path: utzoo!linus!genrad!decvax!harpo!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!hogpd!avi
From: avi@hogpd.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: The role of net.flame in the Smoking discussion
Message-ID: <68@hogpd.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 8-Jun-83 22:13:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: hogpd.68
Posted: Wed Jun  8 22:13:53 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 9-Jun-83 19:58:08 EDT
Lines: 70

I think that net.flame is a perfect place to discuss "smoking". Without a
readily available flame, how could people smoke?

On a more serious note, I am an avowed non-smoker. I hate the stuff. I agree
that kissing smokers is not a pleasant experience (for me at least). I made a
deal with my mother about smoking. When we are both in the same room and she
starts to smoke, one (or more) of three things always happens:
	a)	I leave the room.
	b)	The cigarette leaves the room.
	c)	She leaves the room (with the cigarette).
This usually works well. If not, I usually end up facing away from her or
coughing. Too many people are insensitive to the needs of non-smokers. I have
had people ask me "Do you mind if I smoke?". They are usually not thrilled if I
say "Yes, I do". Why do they ask? I also hate being asked if I have a match?
What use is there for matches outside of an old-fashioned kitchen?

I am looking for a new car. The salesman at one dealership was very amused by
my request about ordering a car with NO ashtrays or cigarette lighters. His
flippant advice was to have it removed AFTER I got the car. Why shouldn't
ashtrays be an option you have to ask for? I am offended by the smell of
day-old cigarettes people leave lying around on tables and in cars. My present
car has no ashtrays except for the one in front--which is strategically filled
with assorted writing implements. Even with these hints, people have asked me
if they can smoke in my car! My usual answer is to ask them whether they would
relish the prospect of an accident caused by my spontaneous coughing and having
my vision obscured by a film of tears.

One final comment about indirect government support of tobacco farmers. I am
amused by the way our government encourages many other farmers to overproduce
many other items--like milk by subsidizing it and keeping the prices high. Why
encourage wasting resources? It is policies like this that make the US lose its
competitive edge in the world economy. Will limiting the availability of
Japanese cars really get US producers to make better american cars? I doubt it.
All it will do is get our unions to ask for higher (undeserved) wages so that
they can share the additional (unearned) profits. The consumer loses both in
terms of quality and in terms of price.

This flame is wandering from its original purpose (cigarettes) so I will close
with some final questions. How do you guys rate the various forms of tobacco
usage: cigarettes, cigars, pipes, chewing tobacco and any other forms?
Which do you find less offensive? Is there any information on who tends to use
each form of slow death. Are people aware of the different risks--for example
different rates of development of lip cancer and the difference between
inhaling and not inhaling. How do people feel about rude people who smoke
marijuana in public places (such as movie theaters) even though they tend to
have a rather pungent odor and somewhat stronger side effects. I once drove
from Milwaukee to Madison [Wisconsin] in a car full of pot-smokers with the
windows closed. I felt buzzed even though I did not directly 'smoke'. There is
a place for everything, but that was not it.

Finally, how easy is it to really isolate smokers from non-smokers without
leaving a no-persons land between them. I just came to Denver on a flight where
I was placed in the row of seats immediately in front of the smoking section.
Of course, the people behind me were smoking. All I could do is to turn my fan
up as high as it would go. Do we need a section for people who don't care? How
do we guarantee access for people who need to go through a smoking section to
get to a bathroom or the front door? On my way back to NJ tomorrow, I am asking
for a seat that is in front of the plane.

I wish I could grant smokers some "rights", but, I am afraid that they are not
granting me many. My insurance rates would plummet if not for the hospital
bills they accumulate for Lung Cancer and emphysema and .... I can say the same
for drinkers who drive while intoxicated. I don't claim to be free of vices (I
admit to being addicted to my regular doses of reading the latest usenet
articles!) but at least I try not to harm people around me. (Yes I know that
this long article is generating phone bills all around North America and
perhaps elsewhere). Please address all flames to net.flames or to me. If you do
not receive a reply from me then I probably did not get your message.

	Avi E. Gross	hogpd!avi or trillian!avi