Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/26/83; site ihuxx.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!wivax!linus!allegra!eagle!mhuxt!mhuxi!mhuxa!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxx!ignatz From: ignatz@ihuxx.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Black Paranoia(I"m not paranoid, I"m right!) Message-ID: <431@ihuxx.UUCP> Date: Wed, 1-Jun-83 14:32:48 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxx.431 Posted: Wed Jun 1 14:32:48 1983 Date-Received: Wed, 8-Jun-83 00:29:13 EDT References: ssc-vax.230, <5283@unc.UUCP> Organization: BTL Naperville, Il. Lines: 65 Fascinating, but important flame we've re-lit here. I'm at work, and don't want to spend a lot of time on this--because one problem on the net is that you are always either preaching to the converted, or inflaming the opposition. In the last 3 years, I can think of only a couple of people who really changed their views because of net discussion, and that because of individual mail dialogues (or, in one case, a phonecon). So maybe I'll just drop my observations on the original message and Andy's response: 1) Don't give me 500 years. Any group in the world can go back far enough and find a period of discrimination; *I* didn't do it to them, and *I* refuse to accept the blame. All that I owe you is a fair, even chance based on ability and skill. THAT's what AA should be about; not retribution. And quotas are silly; what if you can't find x% who are qualified?? Hell, talking quotas, if you stuck to demographic figures, how many blacks would get hired? Hire/promote according to ability; and if there's ever *any* question that anything else intervened, investigate. AA should support *that*, not just numbers. 2) No, it's not paranoia; I learned that emphatically when my folks moved to Houston, and I saw the Southern way of life. (Fortunately, this prepared me for the whole shebang here in Chicago...) The problem is that some blacks, as you will find in any group of people, abuse the law--they use it to advantage, instead of simply assuring an equal chance. REAL LIFE ANECDOTE: A couple of years ago I was on a Hi-Pri project at, Inc. as a consultant. We were frantically working on a multi- megabuck project, and happened to hire a man who seemed to be a real win for the group; he was, incidentally, black. He claimed that he'd been a supervisor, programmer, and analyst for a number of years; he was personable and convincing, so the resume was accepted without anything more than a phone call corroborating that he'd worked at the last place of employment (i.e., call records; "Yes, so-and-so worked here in the DP department."). He was given an initial task commensurate with his represented skills, which would give him some time to come on-board and still complete a critical part of the project. This consisted of making a minicomputer talk to a microcomputer which was serving as a data-buffer for a network of micros; he had the minicomputer end. It required a good understanding of protocol handling, hardware i/o, assembler programming, and machine utilities. Not too much, eh? Well, in the course of the work, he proved incompetent. I can't describe it any other way; he couldn't even figure out how to copy files from one floppy to another, even with the man page! Finally, after the project had been held up for several weeks, he was terminated. You guessed it--he brought an affirmative action suite against the company, *and* wanted to sue for money! Fortunately, one of the supervisors at the company had been through this before, and had a secretary keep a running log of the various complaints that all of the project members. Dated; and for several weeks. So, when the feds dropped in, they accepted this log and dropped the issue. BUT: Could *I* have brought suite? Would they have had to keep such a log to fire *me*? Not bloody likely. THIS type of mistreatment Enough. This could go on forever, and the counter stories of prejudice, discrimination, and violence are just as long or longer. Our--humankind's-- history has great moments--but is also, unfortunately, one unbroken string of some group opressing another. You can't point back at the past; no one is going to listen. Deal with the present and future; getting the right to fair and equal consideration, supported by law, is a stride forward--and the best anyone can get. Protect it by preventing its abuse, invoking it where necessary, and eventually, through hard-nosed performance and ability, making the legal sanctions unnecessary. (I like apple pie, too.) Dave Ihnat ihuxx!ignatz