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From: pmd@cbscd5.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: reply to Tim Maroney
Message-ID: <185@cbscd5.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 5-Jun-83 02:51:58 EDT
Article-I.D.: cbscd5.185
Posted: Sun Jun  5 02:51:58 1983
Date-Received: Mon, 6-Jun-83 22:14:09 EDT
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Organization: Bell Labs , Columbus
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I have to say that I am in agreement with Tim Maroney's response
to the Christian who did nothing but quote Bible verses in
response to something he had written or to the fact that he
exists or whatever.
The verses are true and they may even apply to Tim, but just quoting
them is no reason for any one to really believe they are true.
I have less patience than Tim with Christians who use Scripture 
as an invective for unbelievers--and I, also, am a Christian.

Listen my fellow believers:

If you believe Scripture with all of your heart and are convinced
of its truth as the word of God--fine.  I am with you.  But take
these scriptures as a warning to yourselves and don't try to
use them as darts to humiliate others.  Our job is to convince (Jude 22;
I Cor. 9:19-27) not to condemn (Rom. 12:14-21 - read these verses well).
You would do well to study the book of Acts and take note of the
Apostle Paul's presentation of the gospel to the Greeks.
To the Jews, who knew and accepted Scripture, they proved from the
Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ (Acts 2:14-42; 3:11-4:4; 7; 13:15-52;
28:23-29).  But when Paul preaches to the Greeks, he doesn't start
with scripture (Acts 14:8-18[esp. vv.15-18]; 17:16-34).  Rather he uses
reasoning to show that scripture is true.  How do you think he presented
the gospel to the Greeks in the school of Tyrannus?  That wasn't a
Bible school where they debated theology!  Paul must have
had some pretty good reasoning for them to put up with him for five
hours every day for two years (Acts 19:8-10)!
I know that it takes more than reason to enter into a real relationship
with God (Heb. 11:6).  But reason is no handicap either (II Cor. 10:3-6;
I Pet. 3:15).  I have seen too many well meaning Christians treat it
like one.  Sad to say, Tim's observations are pretty accurate,
to my knowledge.  Too many Christians don't bother to think about reasons
for their beliefs and consider the point of view of unbelievers in
communicating the gospel.  We need to speak to people where they are at,
right? (Read I Cor. 9:19-27 again)  Are we afraid that the God who
who made our minds with their great propensity for doubt ( yes it's
OK for Christians to admit they have doubts) does not have the answers
to our questions, or won't tell us?
If you think you know something, but some non-believer shows you that
you don't, why get defensive about it?  If we're going to learn we have
to risk (and admit to) being wrong once in awhile.  As Christians we
must acknowledge the universality of truth and not be so wound up in our
own little religious world.  As Jeremy Jackson has said in his
recent book "No Other Foundation: The Church Through twenty centuries",
    "The trouble with mere religiosity is that it is safely
    located in space and time outside the rhythm of life.
    The darkened cathedral, the scent-laden atmosphere of
    the temple, the esoteric reaches of abstract theology, the
    impregnable fortress of private religious sensibility--all
    these are ways of separating truth from life.  And they all
    result in dehydrating that truth whose hallmark is streams of
    living water.  Christ is a living contradiction to this
    mentality: he made his grave with the wicked and as
    risen he ate breakfast.  There is no "religious" truth.  Either
    truth is truth or it isn't.  And if it is, all life is
    involved on the same level.  Be circumcized in the heart
    as well as the flesh, said Isaiah.  "Whatever you do, do
    all to the glory of God," advised Paul (1 Cor. 10:31).
    The heresy that reflects the human instinct for separating
    the "sacred" from the "profane" always pretends you can live
    life to the full, religiously and humanly, just so long as
    you do not confuse the two realms.  Hypocrisy is not a  bad
    word to describe it.

That's strong stuff, but we ought to face up to it and renew our
thinking.  God isn't going to cover for our stupidity and
inconsistency.  The only reason to believe Christianity is because
it's true.  If it's not, we ought to be the first to step out of
the que.  Again, I recognize the limits of 
unaided human reason.  But lets push it to the limit in our
pursuit of God, Shall we?  Cry out to God sincerely that he may
be glorified in every thing we do and provide the wisdom we lack.
Tim may be amused by our ineptness, but God isn't (Romans 2:19-24).


                      End of sermon.

Paul Dubuc