Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/26/83; site ihuxk.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!wivax!decvax!harpo!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxk!jdj55611
From: jdj55611@ihuxk.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Paradise vs. Resurrection
Message-ID: <362@ihuxk.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 16-Jun-83 12:37:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxk.362
Posted: Thu Jun 16 12:37:54 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jun-83 07:13:45 EDT
References: <178@hogpc.UUCP>
Organization: BTL Naperville, Il.
Lines: 70

In a recent article S. Boswell gave some views on the state of the dead;
some of which I would like to offer a different scriptural view.

>>we see where evil desires lead to sin which leads to death. In I John 5:12
>>it says those who have Jesus have ETERNAL LIFE , those without Him Do NOT
>>HAVE eternal life.

I think it is importent here to differentiate between two principles;
eternal life and immortality. As cited above, eternal life is conditional
on our faith in God and our acceptance of the gospel. Immortality, on
the other hand is applicable to all as found in 1 Cor. 15:21-22:

	"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection
	 of the dead.
	 For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made
	 alive."

Through the resurrection of Christ, everyone will experience the state
of afterlife "life." This does not take exception for the wicked for
they also will receive this gift of immortality but will not partake
of eternal life with Christ.

As to our status when we leave this life, S. Boswell refered to 
Ecclesiastes and then made the statement:

>> Notice it says
>> the dead know not any thing which says simply there is no knowledge or
>> intelligence in the grave. It also says the memory of them is forgotten which
>> says they didn't remember anything either, which goes along with the verses
>> which say the thoughts perish. In light of ALL these texts how can we say
>> that we go to the grave and then get a second chance or receive more in
>> the way of teachings when all these verses say we have no intelligence in
>> the grave, our thoughts perish, we have no memory.

You can draw your own conclusion from the scripture in Ecc., but I think
it is talking about our attitude toward the dead and the end of
their ablilty to operate in our sphere. I think this is especially true
when you consider Christs teaching of the state of the dead in Luke 16.
This is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. I won't repeat it here
but it describes the paradise and hell where all involved are VERY
cognizant of their surroundings and their prior earthlife.

There is more information I will throw in here as an addendum to an 
article I submitted earlier. In that article I dicussed the state of
the dead and how there is a place after death seperate from heaven
where we all go and those who didn't get a chance to hear the gospel
can receive it there ( 1 Peter 4:6).  If some one fits this category
of never having heard of Christ in his life and accepts him in 
paradise, he has to be baptised before he can enter the kingdom of
heaven.  This is accomplished in proxy as indicated by 1 Cor. 15:29:

	"Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead,
	 is the dead rise not al all? why are they then baptized
	 for the dead?"

Peter used this as an argument for resurrection refering to a 
practice which is largely inheard of in todays churches but it
is an interesting concept.

I think there is an equal amount of scriptural backing to the
views I described above. The main thing to me is that the
intellligence that I gain in this life will rise with me in
the resurrection. This is more appealing to me than to have
my memory obliterated.

				J. D. Jensen
				BTL Naperville Il.
				ihuxk!jdj55611
but the rich man knew enough to be concerned about his brothers who were
still alive.