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Path: utzoo!utcsstat!laura
From: laura@utcsstat.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: RE: A Flame at Affirmative Action
Message-ID: <656@utcsstat.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 9-Jun-83 05:42:31 EDT
Article-I.D.: utcsstat.656
Posted: Thu Jun  9 05:42:31 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 9-Jun-83 18:38:06 EDT
References: <260@houxj.UUCP>
Organization: U. of Toronto, Canada
Lines: 101

Larry Welsch, (houxj!welsh) writes:

	A number of people raise the point that affirmative action may
	result in "quotas." This is true. So what? Given the assumption
	that intelligence does not recognize race then it is reasonable
	to expect that within a given job category the races would have
	roughly (within 2 standard deviations) the same proportions as
	in the population.  This is not the case.  One way of
	correcting this problem is to have quotas.  I DON'T CONSIDER
	THIS USE OF QUOTAS DISCRIMINATION.  The quota is not to
	restrict entry, but rather to ensure entry.

This statement embodies a fallacy which I see a lot.  I especially see
it in Americans, and it may have to do with years of reciting "All men
were created equal".  I have yet to discover that "all men were created
equal" has any real meaning per say. it seems to be a nice collection
of syllables which sound good together but signify nothing.  it tends
to confuse the issue.  When some people talk about "equality" they mean
"nobody should make slaves out of anybody else". Others mean "everybody
deserves equal opportunity".  Still others believe "God gave everybody
a soul and we are therefore all subject to God's law and equal before
Him." I only wish that people would not use the shorthand 'equal' when
they mean one (or more) of these things, for it would make it easier
for me to understand them.

the problem arises when people mean "everybody is identical" or "every
race is identical" or "every race is identical within 2 standard
deviations" by 'equal'.  this is simply not the case.  It is usually
possible to convince people that "everybody is identical" is a poor
position to take, since some people are obviously smarter or taller or
fatter than others.  Most people, though, tend to thoughtlessly
conclude that "all races are identical".

This also is not the case.  With every race is a culture, and some
cultural traditions. While every race is potentially capable of
producing lawyers, doctors, policemen, computer scientists and
lumberjacks, some tend to produce more than others.  This cannot
simply be written off as discrimination by the majority group.  Before
one cries that discrimination has occurred first one must check to see
if there were any *actual people* discriminated against.

Recently, the height and weight restrictions were lessened in order
that minority groups might be better represented on the police force in
Ontario.  What happened?  A lot of skinny, short, white, males got to be
policemen.  Very few members of the Chinese community became cops.
When the Chinese were asked why this was so, it turned out that very few
members of the Chinese community wanted to be cops.  It did not fit
with their cultural expectations.  therefore, on the whole, it is to be
presumed that there will be less Chinese policemen proportionately then
white policemen.  there will be (in Toronto at any rate) more Chinese
restaurant owners and small importers.  If one is to respect the right
of Chinese people to not become policemen if they do not want to, one
must conclude that the tales of "Chinese being discriminated against on
the police force" due to their lack of representation must have been
overstated before the restrictions were lessened.

i had this brought home to me when I was in high school and worked on
an Indian reservation in Northern Ontario for part of a summer.  In
this area, the Indians hate the police and the police hate the
Indians.  Indians are responsible for a lot of crime in the area, and
are blamed for even more.  The police are the direct representatives of
the government which has been screwing the Indians for more than a
century.  the police hold spot checks on reservations and do house to
house checks, looking for alcohol which is not allowed on the
reservation.  Any Indian can expect to get a fine or even a jail
sentence if as much as one bottle of beer is found.  This is perfectly
legal according to the Canadian government who has declared the
reservation "dry".  there is no legal recourse, so Indians routinely go
into town, get drunk, and throw their empties at the local cops.

(Sorry to be so long winded, but this gives some indication of the
feelings between the Indians and the police.)

While I was there someone connected with Indian Affairs (the Canadian
government agency) decided that what was needed was to have Indian
members of the police force to act as liason with the Treaty Indians.
Naively at the time, I thought that this was a brilliant idea.  When I
approached Indians I knew, though, it turned out that they all were
uninterested in becoming members of the police force.  I pointed out
the tremendous benefit that (I thought) would be the result of this.
Every one of them said "I'm not a traitor." or words to that effect.  I
still didnt understand.  Finally, a ten-year old boy took pity on me
and explained it to me.  He said: "I'm an Indian. It may not be much,
but it is all I have. If I went and became a cop I would be saying I
dont want to be an Indian any more. I want to be a White Man with red
skin. But I am an Indian and you cant take that away from me.  You will
never make a White man out of me no matter how you try."

Of course I have forgotten the exact words, but that was approximately
it.  It was pretty hard to admit to a ten year old boy that I was
wrong, but I did.

All cultures are not equal.  All races are not equal.  If by saying
"all men are equal" you mean that every man is a White man at heart, no
matter what the colour of his skin, then you are guilty of
discrimination, (albeit unconcsious discrimination in most cases) far
worse than any isolated act against individual members of minority
groups.

laura creighton
utzoo!utcsstat!laura