Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/26/83; site ihuxk.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxk!jdj55611 From: jdj55611@ihuxk.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Paradise vs. Resurrection Message-ID: <351@ihuxk.UUCP> Date: Mon, 13-Jun-83 08:48:34 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxk.351 Posted: Mon Jun 13 08:48:34 1983 Date-Received: Wed, 15-Jun-83 10:43:00 EDT References: <465@ihuxr.UUCP> Organization: BTL Naperville, Il. Lines: 85 >>>Cliff Morgan cited the reported experience of a Dr. Richard Ely who >>>"visited Paradise" during a period of "clinical death". Although, this >>>would seem to support the notion of "going to heaven" after dying, >>>doesn't it contradict the doctrine of the Resurrection as expounded >>>by Paul in the New Testament? I also saw the interview of Dr. Ely on the 700 club and found it very interesting. As I remember Dr. Ely didn't say that he went to heaven, rather, he described his experience as a 'holding tank where he would be taught how to be a king and a priest.' This idea can be gleaned from the New Testament in the following manner. If you go to Luke 23:39-43 you will find a conversation between Christ and the two thieves while they were awaiting death on the cross. The first one tempts Christ to save Himself. The first is reprimanded by the second and then the second says, "...remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." The key verse is 43: "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today thou shalt be with me in paradise." I have heard this verse quoted numerous times as an indication of how easy it is to be saved. According to this passage, both Jesus and the thief would be in the same place after they died; a place called paradise. But, is this paradise with God in Heaven? Perhaps not. The next event is the appearance of Christ to Mary in the Garden found in John 20. The importent verse is 19 with the following: "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father..." There is more to the verse but this is the point. Here is Christ three days after he told the thief they would be in paradise together and Christ still has not gone to heaven and God! Furthermore, it was not until after Christ was resurrected did he then ascend into Heaven. So where did Christ go and the thief also? They went to a place called paradise but is not heaven. The description given by Dr. Ely would apply: a holding tank until the resurrection. In 1 Peter 3:18-20 is a description of a portion of this place as follows: "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit; By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing..." In the next chapter of 1 Peter, the further explanation of what was happening is given in verse 6: "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." So Christ was preaching the gospel to the dead in paradise where they can await the judgment and resurrection. The thief in paradise along with all others who haved lived on this earth and died have a chance to hear the gospel and accept it. There is much more I could say about this but I will just summarize. The points are: - There is a place between earthlife and heaven where the dead go to prepare for eternity. Those who did not have a chance can there hear and accept the gospel. - Christ did not go directly to heaven from the cross but only AFTER his resurrection. - The thief was not automatically saved but thereafter received the message of the gospel. Joe Jensen BTL Naperville Il.