Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site cbscd5.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!cca!decvax!harpo!eagle!mhuxt!mhuxi!cbosgd!cbscd5!pmd From: pmd@cbscd5.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: reply to Tim Maroney Message-ID: <185@cbscd5.UUCP> Date: Sun, 5-Jun-83 02:51:58 EDT Article-I.D.: cbscd5.185 Posted: Sun Jun 5 02:51:58 1983 Date-Received: Mon, 6-Jun-83 22:14:09 EDT References: itm.1010, <5313@unc.UUCP> Organization: Bell Labs, Columbus Lines: 78 I have to say that I am in agreement with Tim Maroney's response to the Christian who did nothing but quote Bible verses in response to something he had written or to the fact that he exists or whatever. The verses are true and they may even apply to Tim, but just quoting them is no reason for any one to really believe they are true. I have less patience than Tim with Christians who use Scripture as an invective for unbelievers--and I, also, am a Christian. Listen my fellow believers: If you believe Scripture with all of your heart and are convinced of its truth as the word of God--fine. I am with you. But take these scriptures as a warning to yourselves and don't try to use them as darts to humiliate others. Our job is to convince (Jude 22; I Cor. 9:19-27) not to condemn (Rom. 12:14-21 - read these verses well). You would do well to study the book of Acts and take note of the Apostle Paul's presentation of the gospel to the Greeks. To the Jews, who knew and accepted Scripture, they proved from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ (Acts 2:14-42; 3:11-4:4; 7; 13:15-52; 28:23-29). But when Paul preaches to the Greeks, he doesn't start with scripture (Acts 14:8-18[esp. vv.15-18]; 17:16-34). Rather he uses reasoning to show that scripture is true. How do you think he presented the gospel to the Greeks in the school of Tyrannus? That wasn't a Bible school where they debated theology! Paul must have had some pretty good reasoning for them to put up with him for five hours every day for two years (Acts 19:8-10)! I know that it takes more than reason to enter into a real relationship with God (Heb. 11:6). But reason is no handicap either (II Cor. 10:3-6; I Pet. 3:15). I have seen too many well meaning Christians treat it like one. Sad to say, Tim's observations are pretty accurate, to my knowledge. Too many Christians don't bother to think about reasons for their beliefs and consider the point of view of unbelievers in communicating the gospel. We need to speak to people where they are at, right? (Read I Cor. 9:19-27 again) Are we afraid that the God who who made our minds with their great propensity for doubt ( yes it's OK for Christians to admit they have doubts) does not have the answers to our questions, or won't tell us? If you think you know something, but some non-believer shows you that you don't, why get defensive about it? If we're going to learn we have to risk (and admit to) being wrong once in awhile. As Christians we must acknowledge the universality of truth and not be so wound up in our own little religious world. As Jeremy Jackson has said in his recent book "No Other Foundation: The Church Through twenty centuries", "The trouble with mere religiosity is that it is safely located in space and time outside the rhythm of life. The darkened cathedral, the scent-laden atmosphere of the temple, the esoteric reaches of abstract theology, the impregnable fortress of private religious sensibility--all these are ways of separating truth from life. And they all result in dehydrating that truth whose hallmark is streams of living water. Christ is a living contradiction to this mentality: he made his grave with the wicked and as risen he ate breakfast. There is no "religious" truth. Either truth is truth or it isn't. And if it is, all life is involved on the same level. Be circumcized in the heart as well as the flesh, said Isaiah. "Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God," advised Paul (1 Cor. 10:31). The heresy that reflects the human instinct for separating the "sacred" from the "profane" always pretends you can live life to the full, religiously and humanly, just so long as you do not confuse the two realms. Hypocrisy is not a bad word to describe it. That's strong stuff, but we ought to face up to it and renew our thinking. God isn't going to cover for our stupidity and inconsistency. The only reason to believe Christianity is because it's true. If it's not, we ought to be the first to step out of the que. Again, I recognize the limits of unaided human reason. But lets push it to the limit in our pursuit of God, Shall we? Cry out to God sincerely that he may be glorified in every thing we do and provide the wisdom we lack. Tim may be amused by our ineptness, but God isn't (Romans 2:19-24). End of sermon. Paul Dubuc