Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!genrad!decvax!harpo!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!houxm!hocda!machaids!5941ux!dje From: dje@5941ux.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame,net.politics Subject: Re: A Flame at Affirmative Action Message-ID: <286@5941ux.UUCP> Date: Tue, 14-Jun-83 09:21:33 EDT Article-I.D.: 5941ux.286 Posted: Tue Jun 14 09:21:33 1983 Date-Received: Wed, 15-Jun-83 02:55:23 EDT Lines: 64 ssc-vax!jobe asks: Where *were* you people when it was minority people that were being discriminated against? Why is it that you will only complain about it when it seems to threaten *you*?? It seems to me that discrimination isn't discrimination; only *reverse* discrimination is discrimination.... I'm not going to play down the history or effects of racial discrimination. Discrimination is indeed real, and more than just the "designated" minority groups are affected by it. Let me cite some examples of anti-Jewish discrimination. A generation ago, my mother applied for a clerical position with New York Telephone. She wore a Jewish star pendant to the interview. The job required only a 30 wpm typing skill, but the employment representative told her she had to type 50 wpm to get the job. Well, she *could* type 50 wpm, so he replied that she couldn't be hired unless she knew steno. She told him she could do steno, and he now said she had to be fluent in Spanish. When she explained to him that Spanish was her undergraduate major, he had no more excuses. "Look, lady," he said, staring at her pendant, "You don't understand. No matter how qualified you are, you just aren't qualified." Well, things are different now, or are they? A friend of mine got his Master's degree from MIT in Chemical Engineering, and applied to a large and very well known Ohio-based corporation that makes detergents and other household products. At the end of the interview, he was asked about his surname: "Dershowitz... now what kind of name is that?" The interviewer followed up with "You realize we can't hire you; you just wouldn't fit in." My friend told him that this kind of discrimination was illegal, only to be informed that the corporation would categorically deny that any such exchange had ever taken place. Applicants who don't get the job make all kinds of false and defamatory accusations that could get them into serious trouble... Another example, this time from my personal experience. I was once told in private by a manager who participates in my merit evaluation that Jews are articulate and forceful in their conversation, which tends to put other people off. It was just an offhand, casual remark, probably long forgotten by the other party. But the message was not lost on me. Now, another example to show how affirmative action affects the picture. My wife held a six-month temporary teaching job, at which she performed well. When she applied for a permanent slot, she was passed up so that the school could hire a minority applicant. The person hired had less teaching experience than my wife, and he lacked the college degree that was allegedly a requirement for the position. But he got the position, and my wife was left without a job. "We people" suffer from discrimination too, and we're getting it from both sides, forward *and* reverse. Discrimination is wrong, even if it is sponsored with the best of intentions. Finally, where were "we" when "you" were being discriminated against? Jews were in the forefront of the civil rights movement from its beginning. Who still remembers Schwerner, Cheney and Goodman? And what is the predominant attitude "we" see from minorities? Hostility towards Zionism, our own national movement. Accusations that we are racist and insensitive. You say you are "still trying to understand you people." I hope this article contributes to that understanding. There's a lot of common ground between us. I can only hope for more understanding and cooperation in the future. Dave Ellis / Bell Labs, Piscataway NJ ...!{ariel,lime}!houti!hogpc!houxm!5941ux!dje