Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
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Path: utzoo!utcsstat!laura
From: laura@utcsstat.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Smoking . . . (Slow Motion Suicide)
Message-ID: <681@utcsstat.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 16-Jun-83 04:23:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: utcsstat.681
Posted: Thu Jun 16 04:23:17 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 16-Jun-83 19:33:14 EDT
References: <1341@iedl02.UUCP>
Organization: U. of Toronto, Canada
Lines: 49

Okay, this is net.flame so things can get a little wild.
I have a few suggestions about arguing with Tim Maroney, okay?

First: Tim is not a terrible old ogre out there who hates everybody
and everything and gets his jollies out of screaming and yelling.
Tim is a rather reasonable person who has some strong opinions. I agree
with some of them ( that government is best which has the minimum number
of laws) , and disagree
with others (it is possible to read Shadow of the Torturer) . Please remeber that he is not making a stand on the
smoking issue so much as he is making a stand against unececessary
government intervention and government attacks on personal freedoms.

the next time the government takes away some of your personal freedoms
(or tries to)
remember that Tim Maroney is a rather good person to have around since
he is fighting precisely that.

now as to how to argue with Tim Maroney (and also with me, by the way).
Dont yell at him. He can yell back (so can I). It just makes it noisier
for everyone, and the strength of your conviction or anger is not going
to intimidate him. After all, he is a long way away and can probably lock
his office door. Beat him at his own game, on his own terms.

If the person with the statistics on smoking harming non-smokers who
breathe second hand smoke would post it (or a reference we could look up)
and it has been proven then I would say we have beaten him.

This works. I remember that once the issue of whether strings and other io
should be part of the C language got pretty well discussed without anyone
hating Tim and I sent him a reply about why I thought that he was mistaken
about part of his claim about strings and I didnt get told off.

There are certain people for whom it is a waste of time having a discussion
or argument with. Other people can have a lot of fun. I believe that I can
have a lot of fun with this one.

Ok Tim: How about -- there are certain practices in our countries which
	are only allowed in private because they might affect "impressionable"
	children and others. Movie restrictions by age come to mind. Other
	practices such as nudity are similar in that it is generally frowned
	upon or illegal outside of the home, but I can walk around nude in
	my apartment. How about we apply the same strictures to smoking?
	then we can have the freedom to smoke at home, or maybe in designated
	smoking areas, but not where impressionable children and teenagers can
	learn the bad habit.

Laura Creighton
utzoo!utcsstat!laura