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From: jdj55611@ihuxk.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Paradise vs. Resurrection
Message-ID: <351@ihuxk.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 13-Jun-83 08:48:34 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxk.351
Posted: Mon Jun 13 08:48:34 1983
Date-Received: Wed, 15-Jun-83 10:43:00 EDT
References: <465@ihuxr.UUCP>
Organization: BTL Naperville, Il.
Lines: 85

>>>Cliff Morgan cited the reported experience of a Dr. Richard Ely who
>>>"visited Paradise" during a period of "clinical death". Although, this
>>>would seem to support the notion of "going to heaven" after dying,
>>>doesn't it contradict the doctrine of the Resurrection as expounded
>>>by Paul in the New Testament?


I also saw the interview of Dr. Ely on the 700 club and
found it very interesting. As I remember Dr. Ely didn't
say that he went to heaven, rather, he described his
experience as a 'holding tank where he would be taught
how to be a king and a priest.'
This idea can be gleaned from the New Testament in the
following manner.

If you go to Luke 23:39-43 you will find a conversation between
Christ and the two thieves while they were awaiting death on the
cross. The first one tempts Christ to save Himself.
The first is reprimanded by the second and then the second
says, "...remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom."
The key verse is 43:

   "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today
    thou shalt be with me in paradise."

I have heard this verse quoted numerous times as an indication
of how easy it is to be saved. According to this passage, both
Jesus and the thief would be in the same place after they died;
a place called paradise. But, is this paradise with God in 
Heaven? Perhaps not. The next event is the appearance of Christ
to Mary in the Garden found in John 20. The importent verse is
19 with the following:

   "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended
    to my Father..."

There is more to the verse but this is the point. Here is Christ
three days after he told the thief they would be in paradise
together and Christ still has not gone to heaven and God!
Furthermore, it was not until after Christ was resurrected
did he then ascend into Heaven.

So where did Christ go and the thief also? They went to a
place called paradise but is not heaven. The description
given by Dr. Ely would apply: a holding tank until the
resurrection. In 1 Peter 3:18-20 is a description of a
portion of this place as follows:

    "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just
     for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being
     put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit;
     By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in
     prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the
     longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while
     the ark was  a preparing..."

In the next chapter of 1 Peter, the further explanation of
what was happening is given in verse 6:

     "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them
      that are dead, that they might be judged according to 
      men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

So Christ was preaching the gospel to  the dead in paradise
where they can await the judgment and resurrection.
The thief in paradise along with all others who haved lived on
this earth and died have a chance to hear the gospel and accept it.

There is much more I could say about this but I will just
summarize. The points are:

    - There is a  place between earthlife and heaven where
      the dead go to prepare for eternity. Those who did
      not have a chance can there hear and accept the gospel.

    - Christ did not go directly to heaven from the cross
      but only AFTER his resurrection.

    - The thief was not automatically saved but thereafter
      received the message of the gospel.

                 Joe Jensen
                 BTL Naperville Il.