Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!floyd!vax135!ariel!houti!hogpc!boswell From: boswell@hogpc.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Paradise vs. Resurrection Message-ID: <178@hogpc.UUCP> Date: Wed, 15-Jun-83 13:40:13 EDT Article-I.D.: hogpc.178 Posted: Wed Jun 15 13:40:13 1983 Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jun-83 20:58:13 EDT Lines: 97 I do not want to sound as if I'am attacking anybody but I would like to give a reply to the Dr. Ely situation. Lew Mammel (I hope the spelling is correct) made a statement where he thought the dead didn't rise until the second coming. He's correct!! I hear alot of what happens to people at death for, example the tunnel with a bright light at the end, and this is all interesting, but ths Bible is clear on the state of the dead. First let's see what makes a living soul. Genesis 2:7 says God took the dust and breathed into it the Breath of Life; and man became a living soul. Notice you need both to make a living being. Now go to Ecclesiastes 12:7 and we see the dust returns and the spirit (our breath) goes back to God. Remember it took both to make a living soul. therefore when they seperate you no longer have a living soul but instead dust and air. In Genesis 3:19 the Lord also stated that man would return to the dust. Now turn to Job 14:10-12,21. We see in these verses that man does not rise till the heavens (atmosphere in this case) are no more. Now we ask when is the heavens going to pass away? II Peter 3:10 tells us at the Lord's coming the heavens will pass away with a great noise. You may ask why is the atmos- phere destroyed? I ask why shouldn't He destroy it to remove all the polution so His redeemed can have some nice fresh air for a change? Now what are the dead thinking about? NOTHING!! Psalms 146:3,4 says in the King James version that your thoughts perish at death. The New Inter- national version says don't put your trust in MORTAL man, when his spirit (breath) departs he returns to dust and his plans come to nothing. Now what happened to David who wrote this Psalms. Let's turn to Acts 2:29-34. Verse 34 says David has not ascended to Heaven. If you read Acts 13:36 it says David fell asleep (died) and saw corruption (decay). Verse 37 talks of Christ who saw no decay or corruption. If you have problems seeing where being asleep = death then turn to Psalms 13:3, John 11:11-14, I Corin.15:6 Daniel 12:2, Acts 7:60. Along with Mr. Mammel's verse in I Corinthians we have another verse in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 which talks of the dead rising up at the second coming also. These next two verses Isaiah 38:18,19 and Psalms 115:17 state that the dead do not praise the Lord. Also Psalms 6:5 says "In death ther is no remem- brance of thee" or in the New International version "No one remembers you when he is dead"!! In Ecclesiastes 9:5,6 " the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward;for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred and their envy, is now perished;". Notice it says the dead know not any thing which says simply there is no knowledge or intelligence in the grave. It also says the memory of them is forgotten which says they didn't remember anything either, which goes along with the verses which say the thoughts perish. In light of ALL these texts how can we say that we go to the grave and then get a second chance or receive more in the way of teachings when all these verses say we have no intelligence in the grave, our thoughts perish, we have no memory. Because Peter speaks of spirits in prison (I PeTer 3:18-20) and Christ visiting them I don't know if this should be taken literally or not, but I will study some literature I'am waiting on about this verse and get back with what I find. We must remember we serve an Intelligent God and where one verse seems to contradict the others then our interpretation is at fault. If I never understand this verse I'll still say nothing happens during death except decay because of all these many other verses which state otherwise. We can find many verses in the Bible which seem to contradict the rest of what it has to say of a subject, but like I said before if that's the way we read the verse then we need to re-read the verse to find it's true meaning. The Bible is inspired from an Intelligent God therefore we should believe there should be no contradictions. We can take a verse for example that says we will burn with eternal fire. I ask is our God of Love going to let people burn forever screeming and yelling for the righteous to hear for eternity? Let's find out! Ezekiel 18:4,20,24 says that the soul that sins it shall die. Now go to Psalms 92:7 and we see that the wicked will be destroyed forever. In John 3:16 says whoever believes will NOT PERISH but have ETERNAL LIFE. Romans 2:7 says those seeking Glory, Honor, Immortality - God GIVES ETERNAL LIFE. In Romans 6:23 we see the wages of sn is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE. Now all die so we can see plainly that this refers to another death - the second death, when god destroys the wicked. In II Thessalonians 1:9 we see that the wicked will receive EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION. In James 1:5 we see where evil desires lead to sin which leads to death. In I John 5:12 it says those who have Jesus have ETERNAL LIFE , those without Him Do NOT HAVE eternal life. Well now what does the Bible mean when it says we will burn with an everlasting fire? Let's look at some things that already experienced ETERNAL FIRE. Jude verse 7 says SODOM and GOMORRAH serve as an example to those who suffer ETERNAL FIRE. Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? II Peter 2:6 says they are burned to ashes. As a matter of fact, most scholars will tell you they are under the DEAD SEA. Looks like they're cooled off pretty good. Malachi 4:1-3 tells us the wicked will be burned up root and branch and they will be ashes under our feet!!! If I may side track, notice it says root and branch. Jesus is our root and we our the branches. Correct? Let's go to the otherside of the fence and say of the wicked that Satan is the root and the wicked our his branches. In this case Satan will die and be burned up also. The source of all our problems will be gone!!!! If you need another proof verse look at Revelation 20:14 and you will see it says that the lake of fire is the second death!!! I serve a God of LOVE that wants all to be with Him. Ezekiel 18:23 will show you He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He doesn't want people burning forever just like we don't want it. God hates sin for it cost Him the life of Jesus His Son. Every time we sin God remembers back to Calvary and sees Christ crucified again. Read Hebrews 6:6. Sin is not a pretty sight in His eyes. He wants it to end just like us. I hope no one is offended by what I wrote. I try to put in a lot of texts so you can check for yourself and remove any doubt. Peace To All Stephen R. Boswell