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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354515 is a reply to message #354502] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 11:39   |
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Originally posted by: Whiskers
On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>
>>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to have
>>> been.
>>
>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>
> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
> composed the chime was *real* news!
>
> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
computers and software.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354516 is a reply to message #354515] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 11:54 |
Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>>
>>>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to have
>>>> been.
>>>
>>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>
>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
>> composed the chime was *real* news!
>>
>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
>> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>
> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
> computers and software.
If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354517 is a reply to message #354516] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 12:35 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>> computers and software.
>
> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
vital kinds of software design.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354518 is a reply to message #354517] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 12:38 |
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Originally posted by: Gareth's Downstairs Computer
On 16/10/2017 17:35, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>
> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
> vital kinds of software design.
In the company that I joined 43 years ago, it was all green
coding sheets and punched cards for PDP11 assembler.
It's a small world but on holiday this last summer, the lady
who used to do the card punching for us greeted me!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354532 is a reply to message #354516] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 13:59 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:54:49 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-
a-mac
>>>> >
>>>> > Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to
>>>> > have been.
>>>>
>>>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>
>>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno
>>> having composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>
>>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that
>>> he'd used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>
>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>> computers and software.
>
> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
I used to use 2B pencils, and I had a pencil sharpener with replaceable
blades. In fact, I still have them...right here.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354533 is a reply to message #354475] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 14:20 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to have
>>>> >> been.
>>>> >
>>>> > Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>>>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
>>>> composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>>
>>>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
>>>> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>>
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>
> Ditto. On coding sheets, which went off to be key-punched on 8 track
> paper tape.
I was lucky enough to work in small shops where I could get time on
a keypunch to punch my own decks. That way I could work directly from
the chicken tracks I scribbled on the back of old line printer paper
(with lots of scratching out or arrows to insert or move code as I
composed it), or changes I wrote in in the margins of existing program
listings. If the code was simple enough, I'd punch it off the top
of my head without writing it down at all. It saved a _lot_ of time.
I felt sorry for anyone who had to use coding forms.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354534 is a reply to message #354517] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 14:20 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>
> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
> vital kinds of software design.
Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354535 is a reply to message #354532] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 14:22 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:54:49 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to
>>>> >> have been.
>>>> >
>>>> > Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>>>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno
>>>> having composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>>
>>>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that
>>>> he'd used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>>
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>
> I used to use 2B pencils, and I had a pencil sharpener with replaceable
> blades. In fact, I still have them...right here.
Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
2B | !2B
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354536 is a reply to message #354535] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 14:25 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 18:22:11 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:54:49 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-
on-a-mac
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound
>>>> >>> to have been.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>> >
>>>> > That something to be identified with Windows was created on
>>>> > Something Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about
>>>> > it). Eno having composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>>> > generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that
>>>> > he'd used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>>>
>>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> computers and software.
>>>
>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>> software,
>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>
>> I used to use 2B pencils, and I had a pencil sharpener with replaceable
>> blades. In fact, I still have them...right here.
>
> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>
> 2B | !2B
No, that would always evaluate to -1 in two's complement!
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354553 is a reply to message #354515] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 16:56 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/16/2017 10:39 AM, Whiskers wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>
>>> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> > https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>>
>>>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to have
>>>> been.
>>>
>>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>
>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
>> composed the chime was *real* news!
>>
>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
>> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>
> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
> computers and software.
>
ISTM yhat Seymour Cray did most of his computer design using #3 pencils
and a yellow pad of paper.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354559 is a reply to message #354475] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 17:10 |
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Originally posted by: Bob Eager
On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:55:29 +0000, Huge wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> > computers and software.
>>>>
>>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>>> software,
>>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>
>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>
>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out a
>> pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>
> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
> better standing up and walking up and down.
Opposite for me. I used to use lareg sheets of fanfold paper, though.
This avoids the problem one member of staff had. He had a *very* large
board in his office containing work in progress. He moved office at short
notice. They had to unscrew the board and move it.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354560 is a reply to message #354502] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 17:32 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 22:21:05 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>
> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
> composed the chime was *real* news!
>
> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
I would assume that if a product does not exist you of course design it
on something else. Like they could had probably created QDOS (86-DOS,
what later became MS-DOS) on a CP/M based computer. ;-)
Well according to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS> Tim Paterson of
Seattle Computer Products did use a CP/M-80 manual as reference. But
hardware was their own product, a 8086 computer kit.
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
your only condiment on the dining room table is the economy size bottle of
ketchup.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354564 is a reply to message #354475] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 20:38 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> > computers and software.
>>>>
>>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>
>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>
>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>
> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
> better standing up and walking up and down.
Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
big ugly arrows putting it all together.
Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354565 is a reply to message #354536] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 20:38 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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|
On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 18:22:11 +0000, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 09:54:49 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound
>>>> >>>> to have been.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That something to be identified with Windows was created on
>>>> >> Something Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about
>>>> >> it). Eno having composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>>> >> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that
>>>> >> he'd used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>>> >
>>>> > Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> > computers and software.
>>>>
>>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>>> software,
>>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>
>>> I used to use 2B pencils, and I had a pencil sharpener with replaceable
>>> blades. In fact, I still have them...right here.
>>
>> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
>>
>> 2B | !2B
>
> No, that would always evaluate to -1 in two's complement!
"Two's complement, three's a crowd."
-- Stan Kelly-Bootle: The Devil's DP Dictionay
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354568 is a reply to message #354564] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 21:02 |
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Originally posted by: J. Clarke
On 17 Oct 2017 00:38:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >> computers and software.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> > and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>>
>>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>>
>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>
>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>
> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>
> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
Most of the conference rooms at work have large HD monitors whose
default image is a message "I'm a whiteboard".
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354569 is a reply to message #354560] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 22:03 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
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On 10/16/2017 4:32 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 22:21:05 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>
>>> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>
>> That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>> Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
>> composed the chime was *real* news!
>>
>> I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>> generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
>> used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>
> I would assume that if a product does not exist you of course design it
> on something else. Like they could had probably created QDOS (86-DOS,
> what later became MS-DOS) on a CP/M based computer. ;-)
>
> Well according to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS> Tim Paterson of
> Seattle Computer Products did use a CP/M-80 manual as reference. But
> hardware was their own product, a 8086 computer kit.
>
Seattle Computer Products had a source license for CP/M. It has been
alleged that Tim Patterson ran the 8080 CP/M code through and automatic
code conversion to produce the skeleton of QDOS... and then cleaned it
up by hand.
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354570 is a reply to message #354564] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 22:05 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/16/2017 7:38 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >> computers and software.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> > and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>>
>>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>>
>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>
>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>
> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>
> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
>
Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354575 is a reply to message #354569] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 23:18 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> Seattle Computer Products had a source license for CP/M. It has been
> alleged that Tim Patterson ran the 8080 CP/M code through and automatic
> code conversion to produce the skeleton of QDOS... and then cleaned it
> up by hand.
That makes sense. Many of the BIOS calls are almost identical between
the two, right down to the command codes. And then Microsoft came long
and pissed in it. COMMAND.COM's refusal to copy zero-length files was
_not_ inherited from PIP.COM.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354576 is a reply to message #354570] |
Mon, 16 October 2017 23:18 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 10/16/2017 7:38 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>> computers and software.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> >> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >
>>>> > Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> > vital kinds of software design.
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>
>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
>> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
>> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>>
>> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
>> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
>> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
>
> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
Who needs large envelopes? I get along just fine with a used #10.
If I need just a few notes, the back of the cash register receipts
that I stuff into my wallet will do. Like I said, I write small.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354578 is a reply to message #354568] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 00:20 |
Joe Pfeiffer
Messages: 764
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
> On 17 Oct 2017 00:38:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >>> computers and software.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> >> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>> >
>>>> > Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> > vital kinds of software design.
>>>>
>>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>>
>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>> Different strokes. I sit down and write small, and am good at scratching
>> things out, scrawling a new version elsewhere on the page, and drawing
>> big ugly arrows putting it all together.
>>
>> Besides, whiteboards (well, the markers) smell - and pencils don't make
>> that irritating squeaking noise. Also, I don't have a whiteboard at home.
>> But I can pull out a pencil and paper and start scribbling wherever I am.
>
> Most of the conference rooms at work have large HD monitors whose
> default image is a message "I'm a whiteboard".
I'm reminded of a student giving a presentation many years ago who was
asked a question, and headed for the overhead projector screen (not the
projector itself) with an open Sharpie. The chorus of students (and
me!) yelling "NO!!!" stopped him in time.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354588 is a reply to message #354475] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 04:14 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 2017-10-16, Huge wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> > computers and software.
>>>>
>>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>
>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>
>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>
> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
> better standing up and walking up and down.
Whiteboard is better if more than one person might work on it or need
to refer to it.
Plus, managers can see that you /are/ working on something.
(Actually -- and I'm not comparing them to pen and paper now --
whiteboards still surprise me in their usefulness. IME, if three or
four programmers with conflicting ideas about a problem gather around
a whiteboard, they'll more or less agree about a solution in 15
minutes. At least if they're willing to listen.)
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354591 is a reply to message #354475] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 05:29 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> > computers and software.
>>>>
>>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>
>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>
>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>
> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
> better standing up and walking up and down.
>
Plus, you can step back froma a whiteboard, `fuzzify' your vision, and
see more of the pipeline.
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354594 is a reply to message #354515] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 05:59 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 16:39:41 +0100
Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote:
> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
> computers and software.
Pencils for software design - yep with IBM flowchart templates too.
I got out of that habit pretty quickly though.
Pencils for designing computers - a bit, mostly for timing diagrams
but mostly 0.5mm Rotring pens on drafting film for circuitry.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354595 is a reply to message #354591] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 06:49 |
mausg
Messages: 2483
Registered: May 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >> computers and software.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>>> > and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>>
>>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>>
>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out
>>> a pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>
>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>
> Plus, you can step back froma a whiteboard, `fuzzify' your vision, and
> see more of the pipeline.
>
>
I should add that `fuzzyifying' is not as much as it was, now,
defuzzyfying is getting hard. :)
--
greymaus.ireland.ie
Just_Another_Grumpy_Old_Man
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354596 is a reply to message #354559] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 08:28 |
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Originally posted by: Whiskers
On 2017-10-16, Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 20:55:29 +0000, Huge wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2017-10-16, Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> >> computers and software.
>>>> >
>>>> > If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write
>>>> > software,
>>>> > and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>>>>
>>>> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
>>>> vital kinds of software design.
>>>
>>> Yup. Even now, if the design starts to get complicated, I'll get out a
>>> pencil and paper and start scribbling.
>>
>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>
> Opposite for me. I used to use lareg sheets of fanfold paper, though.
>
> This avoids the problem one member of staff had. He had a *very* large
> board in his office containing work in progress. He moved office at short
> notice. They had to unscrew the board and move it.
Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
blackboards in my old school.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354597 is a reply to message #354576] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 09:33 |
Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tue, 2017-10-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2017-10-17, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
....
>> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
>> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
>
> Who needs large envelopes? I get along just fine with a used #10.
> If I need just a few notes, the back of the cash register receipts
> that I stuff into my wallet will do. Like I said, I write small.
I used to do that, and my mom still saves envelopes and other papers
for that kind of reuse. But I noticed that I ended up with various
papers lying around, with varying dimensions, some with important
scribblings on, some not.
So I bought one of those cubes with 8x8 cm square papers. Envelopes
and receipts now go in the trash.
/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354602 is a reply to message #354597] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 10:07 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Tue, 2017-10-17, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2017-10-17, Charles Richmond <numerist@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> ...
>>> Charlie, the back of used, large envelopes make excellent places to
>>> scratch down your ideas!!! :-)
>>
>> Who needs large envelopes? I get along just fine with a used #10.
>> If I need just a few notes, the back of the cash register receipts
>> that I stuff into my wallet will do. Like I said, I write small.
>
> I used to do that, and my mom still saves envelopes and other papers
> for that kind of reuse. But I noticed that I ended up with various
> papers lying around, with varying dimensions, some with important
> scribblings on, some not.
>
> So I bought one of those cubes with 8x8 cm square papers. Envelopes
> and receipts now go in the trash.
I would put an envelop on the fridge for the grocery list; any
coupons would fit in the envelop.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354603 is a reply to message #354517] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 10:07 |
jmfbahciv
Messages: 6173
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>
>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>> computers and software.
>>
>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>> and colored pencils to design NMOS chips...
>
> Pencil and paper (or whiteboards) are of course still unbeatable for
> vital kinds of software design.
I had a blackboard. I hated whiteboards because one got an alcohol
high without the taste of beer.
/BAH
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354612 is a reply to message #354596] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 12:34 |
Quadibloc
Messages: 4399
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 6:28:40 AM UTC-6, Whiskers wrote:
> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
> blackboards in my old school.
That must have been a _very_ old school. We had blackboards in school when I was a
schoolchild, but they were simply gypsum painted green or some such thing; real
slate blackboards were valuable antiques by then.
John Savard
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354613 is a reply to message #354612] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 12:44 |
scott
Messages: 4239
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 6:28:40 AM UTC-6, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
>> blackboards in my old school.
>
> That must have been a _very_ old school. We had blackboards in school when I was a
> schoolchild, but they were simply gypsum painted green or some such thing; real
> slate blackboards were valuable antiques by then.
My Jr. High was built in the late 1800's (and demolished after
my 8th grade year there, when we moved to the old high-school for
one year - which itself was built in 1934). The current HS was built
in 1977.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354614 is a reply to message #354612] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 13:04 |
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Originally posted by: Whiskers
On 2017-10-17, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 6:28:40 AM UTC-6, Whiskers wrote:
>
>> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
>> blackboards in my old school.
>
> That must have been a _very_ old school. We had blackboards in school
> when I was a schoolchild, but they were simply gypsum painted green or
> some such thing; real slate blackboards were valuable antiques by
> then.
>
> John Savard
Not _very_ old; the building dated from about 1880. I think it's still
there, converted to housing; I don't know what happened to the built-in
slate blackboards (or the large-bore convection heating system and coal
boiler, or the metal-working forge). I was there in the 1960s.
We had small bits of slate in wooden frames when I first started school,
to practice our letters on. Some of them could have been quite old,
being portable they could be handed on easily. They break, but don't
really wear out. Slate was a local product (supplanted now by plastics
and by cheap inferior Chinese slate).
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354616 is a reply to message #354595] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 13:43 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-17, mausg@mail.com <mausg@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Whiteboard. Sheets of paper are too small, too hard to alter and I think
>>> better standing up and walking up and down.
>>
>> Plus, you can step back froma a whiteboard, `fuzzify' your vision, and
>> see more of the pipeline.
>
> I should add that `fuzzyifying' is not as much as it was, now,
> defuzzyfying is getting hard. :)
Keeping the prescription on my glasses up to date helps a lot with that.
Unfortunately, it doesn't help much with the sort of fuzzifying that
politicians specialize in.
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354624 is a reply to message #354533] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 13:59 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:20:24 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> I was lucky enough to work in small shops where I could get time on
> a keypunch to punch my own decks. That way I could work directly from
> the chicken tracks I scribbled on the back of old line printer paper
> (with lots of scratching out or arrows to insert or move code as I
> composed it), or changes I wrote in in the margins of existing program
> listings. If the code was simple enough, I'd punch it off the top
> of my head without writing it down at all. It saved a _lot_ of time.
> I felt sorry for anyone who had to use coding forms.
In my early days, we were required to code our programs neatly on
coding sheets and they were keypunched by k/p operators. I don't
think this was a bad thing, as the coding effort forced us to think
about our programs and rough them out in advance before coding them.
In later years, we were able to enter our own programs directly
into a screen. It was no longer necessary to neatly code them since
an informal 'scratch' would do. However, personally, I found that
it was good to still think about a program and rough it out first,
rather than rush it in, making it up as I typed it.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354625 is a reply to message #354535] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 14:01 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> Did your code ever include the selection algorithm for those pencils?
IMHO, the best coding pencils were Dixon Ticonderoga No. 2. They
required little pressure and erased easily. Other pencils had more
resistance which got to be tiring after a lot of writing. Also, other
pencils didn't erase as well, making it easier to tear the paper.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354626 is a reply to message #354612] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 14:03 |
hancock4
Messages: 6746
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2017 at 12:34:17 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> That must have been a _very_ old school. We had blackboards in school when I was a
> schoolchild, but they were simply gypsum painted green or some such thing; real
> slate blackboards were valuable antiques by then.
What do public schools use today? Have all the chalk blackboards (green
boards) been replaced with whiteboards requiring markers?
When I checked, markers cost about twice that of chalk. For a large
school district, that could add up significantly.
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| blackboards [message #354627 is a reply to message #354596] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 15:35 |
Alan Bowler
Messages: 185
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2017-10-17 8:28 AM, Whiskers wrote:
> Lucky it wasn't a large slab of slate built into the wall, like the
> blackboards in my old school.
The Perimeter Institute in Waterloo (studies in advanced physics)
has many floor to ceiling black boards in the halls, common areas,
meeting rooms etc. And yes, they are often covered mathematical
formulae. This building is only a few years old.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354628 is a reply to message #354569] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:11 |
Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 21:03:11 -0500, Charles Richmond wrote:
>
> On 10/16/2017 4:32 PM, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 22:21:05 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>>
>> I would assume that if a product does not exist you of course design it
>> on something else. Like they could had probably created QDOS (86-DOS,
>> what later became MS-DOS) on a CP/M based computer. ;-)
>>
>> Well according to <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/86-DOS> Tim Paterson of
>> Seattle Computer Products did use a CP/M-80 manual as reference. But
>> hardware was their own product, a 8086 computer kit.
>>
>
> Seattle Computer Products had a source license for CP/M. It has been
> alleged that Tim Patterson ran the 8080 CP/M code through and
> automatic code conversion to produce the skeleton of QDOS... and then
> cleaned it up by hand.
Then parts of CP/M's code base was embedded in MS-DOS? If they could had
proved it back in the 80s I wonder if Digital Research could had get some
"royalties" from Microsoft.
Although MS might have rewritten things heavily. Like what was already
mentioned that COMMAND.COM is way different from PIP.
--
Andreas
You know you are a redneck if
you ever been arrested on an obscene mud-flap charge.
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| Re: The Windows 95 chime was created on a Mac [message #354629 is a reply to message #354533] |
Tue, 17 October 2017 16:15 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2017-10-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-10-16, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 15 Oct 2017 21:26:20 GMT, Huge wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 2017-10-15, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-95-start-up-music-compos ed-on-a-mac
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Is this not well known? Given that Eno composed it, it was bound to have
>>>> >>> been.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Was news for me. Sorry if it was common knowledge.
>>>> >
>>>> > That something to be identified with Windows was created on Something
>>>> > Else is no surprise at all (though I didn't know about it). Eno having
>>>> > composed the chime was *real* news!
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm reminded of the story of somebody telling Seymour Cray that some
>>>> > generation of Mac was simulated on a Cray, and him responding that he'd
>>>> > used a drafting package on a Mac to design the Cray.
>>>>
>>>> Go back far enough and you'll find people using pencils to design
>>>> computers and software.
>>>
>>> If I go back far enough I'll find *me* using pencils to write software,
>>
>> Ditto. On coding sheets, which went off to be key-punched on 8 track
>> paper tape.
>
> I was lucky enough to work in small shops where I could get time on
> a keypunch to punch my own decks. That way I could work directly from
> the chicken tracks I scribbled on the back of old line printer paper
> (with lots of scratching out or arrows to insert or move code as I
> composed it), or changes I wrote in in the margins of existing program
> listings. If the code was simple enough, I'd punch it off the top
> of my head without writing it down at all. It saved a _lot_ of time.
> I felt sorry for anyone who had to use coding forms.
>
Lately I've discovered that all that time with coding sheets comes in handy
for ... crossword puzzles. My printing now stinks, except that I find I can
still letter very neatly inside of small boxes.
--
Pete
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