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William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325637] Fri, 12 August 2016 21:55 Go to next message
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From Uproxx.com ...


William Shatner Says ŒStar Trek¹ Owes A Big Debt To ŒStar Wars¹
------------------------------------------------------------ ---
William Shatner must have stones the size of two slightly smaller
William Shatners. On Saturday, the 85-year-old musical genius
made a statement at Las Vegas¹ 15th annual official Star Trek
convention that was pretty much guaranteed to make die-hard fans
choke on their Romulan Ale.

³First of all, Star Wars created Star Trek. You know that?²
offered Shatner to the crowd according to a CNN report.
Considering that the original series predates Star Wars by over
a decade and Captain Kirk¹s making this declaration on Trek turf,
this assessment reads as borderline sacrilege. It¹s a bit like
going to a Kim & Kanye meet-n-greet and hearing Kanye say Taylor
Swift made him famous. Bricks were presumably sh*t.

So what¹s Shatner getting at? He explained to the crowd that the
arrival of Star Wars in 1977 helped bring Star Trek back to life.
A claim that¹s way more palatable to Trekkies/Trekkers than the
³Star Wars created Star Trek.² Shatner recalled how studios were
scrambling after Star Wars proved to be an absolute box office
juggernaut and on the search for a worthy competitor.

³At Paramount Studios they were running around bumping into each
other: ŒWhat do we got?! What do we got to equal ŒStar Wars?¹
This is a big thing! There was this thing that we canceled,
under another management, it was called Star ŠTrek? Let¹s
resurrect that!²

Shatner conceded that the first Trek movie was underwhelming
thanks to the rush to get it made and special effects that
weren¹t anywhere near in the league of George Lucas¹ space epic.
The first cinematic go-around wasn¹t great, but Star TrekŒs
motion picture presence owes Star Wars a debt in Shatner¹s eyes.
Mind you, Shatner sees the sci-fi offerings as being different
animals.

³Star Trek at its best tells human stories. It¹s philosophical.
There¹s humanity. There¹s a principle involved. And it¹s well
done. It¹s about people,² noted Shatner. ³Star Wars was grand,
like opera. It was huge with great special effects. It was a
marvelously entertaining film, but it wasn¹t specifically about
people the way those Star Treks were.²

So even with that original Wars created Trek mention, things
were sorted out in a way where all parties should be happy with
the result. Put those effigies away, everybody.

< http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/star-trek-debt-william-shatner- star-wars/>
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325671 is a reply to message #325637] Sat, 13 August 2016 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 13/08/16 09:55, Your Name wrote:
>
> From Uproxx.com ...
> ....
> ³First of all, Star Wars created Star Trek. You know that?²
> ....

What? Star Trek was an older drama....

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325746 is a reply to message #325671] Sat, 13 August 2016 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <non7ok$gut$6@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 13/08/16 09:55, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> From Uproxx.com ...
>> ....
>> 3First of all, Star Wars created Star Trek. You know that?2
>> ....
>
> What? Star Trek was an older drama....

The original TV show yes, but it wasn't hugely popular at the time (and
was cancelled), but the release of Star Wars kicked started sci-fi
genre again, which helped Star Trek be resurrected in to the cinemas
and then further TV shows.

Without Star Wars it's unlikely Star Trek would have been brought back
(at least not until much later in the lazy hack times we now live in of
resurrecting everything). There also wouldn't have been shows like
Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, etc.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325856 is a reply to message #325746] Sun, 14 August 2016 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 14/08/16 06:55, Your Name wrote:
> In article <non7ok$gut$6@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What? Star Trek was an older drama....
>
> The original TV show yes, but it wasn't hugely popular at the time (and
> was cancelled), but the release of Star Wars kicked started sci-fi
> genre again, which helped Star Trek be resurrected in to the cinemas
> and then further TV shows.
>
> Without Star Wars it's unlikely Star Trek would have
> been brought back...

They the verb should have been "resurrected" instead of "created"!

I think Star Trek the original TV drama forked if not created Star Wars...:)

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325861 is a reply to message #325856] Mon, 15 August 2016 02:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nordki$mse$5@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14/08/16 06:55, Your Name wrote:
>> In article <non7ok$gut$6@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> What? Star Trek was an older drama....
>>
>> The original TV show yes, but it wasn't hugely popular at the time (and
>> was cancelled), but the release of Star Wars kicked started sci-fi
>> genre again, which helped Star Trek be resurrected in to the cinemas
>> and then further TV shows.
>>
>> Without Star Wars it's unlikely Star Trek would have
>> been brought back...
>
> They the verb should have been "resurrected" instead of "created"!

Nope. Shatner was talking about the movies ... without Star Wars, it's
unlikely there would have been any Star Trek movies (at least way back
then).



> I think Star Trek the original TV drama forked if not created Star Wars...:)

Nope, absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek. Star Wars was George
Lucas' attempt at making films like the old serials he saw in the
cinema as a kid: Tarzan, Flash Gordon, etc.. He originally wanted to
make a Flash Gordon movie, but couldn't get the rights.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325869 is a reply to message #325861] Mon, 15 August 2016 05:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
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Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 15/08/16 14:13, Your Name wrote:
>
>> I think Star Trek the original TV drama forked if not created Star Wars...:)
>
> Nope, absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek. Star Wars was George
> Lucas' attempt at making films like the old serials he saw in the
> cinema as a kid: Tarzan, Flash Gordon, etc.. He originally wanted to
> make a Flash Gordon movie, but couldn't get the rights.

Could someone draw an *accurate* timeline, please? :)

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325939 is a reply to message #325869] Mon, 15 August 2016 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nos3n1$eku$3@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/08/16 14:13, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Star Trek the original TV drama forked if not created Star
>>> Wars...:)
>>
>> Nope, absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek. Star Wars was George
>> Lucas' attempt at making films like the old serials he saw in the
>> cinema as a kid: Tarzan, Flash Gordon, etc.. He originally wanted to
>> make a Flash Gordon movie, but couldn't get the rights.
>
> Could someone draw an *accurate* timeline, please? :)

1977 Star Wars (later sub-titled "A New Hope")

1979 Star Trek: The Motion Picture


The first Star Trek movie came two years after the first Star Wars
movie. The Star Trek TV series was not a direct influence on Star Wars.
Flash Gordon was the main influence, along with numerous other movies
from other genres.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #325989 is a reply to message #325861] Tue, 16 August 2016 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Monday, August 15, 2016 at 12:12:54 AM UTC-6, Your Name wrote:
> In article <nordki$mse$5@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I think Star Trek the original TV drama forked if not created Star Wars...:)

> Nope, absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek. Star Wars was George
> Lucas' attempt at making films like the old serials he saw in the
> cinema as a kid: Tarzan, Flash Gordon, etc.. He originally wanted to
> make a Flash Gordon movie, but couldn't get the rights.

Yes, that's true.

Before Star Trek, there were science-fiction TV shows. Voyage to the Bottom of
the Sea, Lost in Space, Doctor Who, Supercar, Captain Video... with one common
factor; they were for the kiddies.

For adults, there were anthology shows: The Outer Limits, One Step Beyond.

After Star Trek, the idea that a TV series that could be taken seriously by an
adult audience could be science fiction took hold. So we *could* say that Star
Trek had _something_ to do with, oh, say, Space: 1999, for example.

Because Star Trek did help boost the profile of science fiction in the mass
media, it may have contributed a little bit to it being possible for George
Lucas to make Star Wars, even though, as you quite correctly note, his
inspiration was things like the old Flash Gordon serials.

He wanted to do them right, to provide the sense of wonder that they originally
gave their young audience, but with modern special effects and production
values... and he very much succeeded.

John Savard
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #326001 is a reply to message #325939] Tue, 16 August 2016 11:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 16/08/16 05:22, Your Name wrote:
> ... The Star Trek TV series was not a direct influence
> on Star Wars. Flash Gordon was the main influence,
> along with numerous other movies from other genres.

I don't know about this older Flash Gordon. How did it influence Star
Wars: A New Hope?

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #326025 is a reply to message #326001] Tue, 16 August 2016 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <novcfl$h89$1@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16/08/16 05:22, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> ... The Star Trek TV series was not a direct influence
>> on Star Wars. Flash Gordon was the main influence,
>> along with numerous other movies from other genres.
>
> I don't know about this older Flash Gordon. How did it influence Star
> Wars: A New Hope?

A space adventure, an evil emperor, a hero who saves the day and the
girl, etc.

Flash Gordon is what George Lucas originally wanted to make, but
couldn't get the rights to do, so he made his own space adventure
instead.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #326084 is a reply to message #326025] Wed, 17 August 2016 07:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 17/08/16 04:56, Your Name wrote:
>
> A space adventure, an evil emperor, a hero who saves the day and the
> girl, etc.

That's pretty generic for all movies and legends about heroes and knights

> Flash Gordon is what George Lucas originally wanted to make, but
> couldn't get the rights to do, so he made his own space adventure
> instead.

I didn't know this one... :)

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #326174 is a reply to message #326084] Wed, 17 August 2016 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <np1g85$nlf$1@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/08/16 04:56, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> A space adventure, an evil emperor, a hero who saves the day and the
>> girl, etc.
>
> That's pretty generic for all movies and legends about heroes and knights.

Yes it is. It's what George Lucas base his movies on (especially the
first "Star Wars" one) and a good part of why they are so popular.



>> Flash Gordon is what George Lucas originally wanted to make, but
>> couldn't get the rights to do, so he made his own space adventure
>> instead.
>
> I didn't know this one... :)

Well, you did because I already said that a day or two ago. :-p
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327433 is a reply to message #326174] Tue, 30 August 2016 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 18/08/16 06:08, Your Name wrote:
>> I didn't know this one... :)
>
> Well, you did because I already said that a day or two ago. :-p
>

I have never watched that very old Flash. I did, however, watched "Flash
Gordon" the cartoon when I was still young.

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327470 is a reply to message #327433] Tue, 30 August 2016 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nq47bt$kpe$6@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/08/16 06:08, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> I didn't know this one... :)
>>
>> Well, you did because I already said that a day or two ago. :-p
>
> I have never watched that very old Flash. I did, however, watched "Flash
> Gordon" the cartoon when I was still young.

Flash Gordon itself was created as a "competitor" (i.e. a knock-off) to
the Buck Rogers stories.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327505 is a reply to message #327470] Wed, 31 August 2016 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 31/08/16 05:24, Your Name wrote:
>
> Flash Gordon itself was created as a "competitor" (i.e. a knock-off) to
> the Buck Rogers stories.
>

I live in Hong Kong, not USA nor Britain. And CRT TVs were expensive in
the old days. So I don't know much about these....

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327518 is a reply to message #327505] Wed, 31 August 2016 17:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nq6ggr$knk$2@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 31/08/16 05:24, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> Flash Gordon itself was created as a "competitor" (i.e. a knock-off) to
>> the Buck Rogers stories.
>
> I live in Hong Kong, not USA nor Britain. And CRT TVs were expensive in
> the old days. So I don't know much about these....

The movies and TV shows came later. Both of those were originally comic
strips:

Buck Rogers 1929 (although first appeared in a story in 1927)
Flash Gordon 1934


In a weird way the whole thing actually came full circle:

- 'Buck Rogers' created

- 'Flash Gordon' created as a comic book competitor's character

- George Lucas wanted to do 'Flash Gordon', but couldn't obtain
the rights

- George Lucas makes 'Star Wars'

- TV show 'Battlestar Galactica' made, often called "Star Wars
for TV" (George Lucas tried to sue them)

- Same company also made TV show 'Buck Rogers'

It's all a massive conspiracy I tells ya. ;-)
{start playing 'Twilight Zone' theme}
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327534 is a reply to message #327518] Thu, 01 September 2016 06:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 1/09/16 05:38, Your Name wrote:
>
> - TV show 'Battlestar Galactica' made, often called "Star Wars
> for TV" (George Lucas tried to sue them)

I remember this one! Hong Kong broadcasted it. :)

> - Same company also made TV show 'Buck Rogers'
>
> It's all a massive conspiracy I tells ya. ;-)
> {start playing 'Twilight Zone' theme}

Buck Rogers later became a PC/DOS game...

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327584 is a reply to message #327534] Thu, 01 September 2016 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nq8v3k$62l$1@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1/09/16 05:38, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> - TV show 'Battlestar Galactica' made, often called "Star Wars
>> for TV" (George Lucas tried to sue them)
>
> I remember this one! Hong Kong broadcasted it. :)

I should have said that is the original 'Battlestar Galactica' by Glen
Lason ... *not* the recent reboot garbage by Ron Moore (aka Moore-Ron),
which is a completely different show that should have used a different
name.


>> - Same company also made TV show 'Buck Rogers'
>>
>> It's all a massive conspiracy I tells ya. ;-)
>> {start playing 'Twilight Zone' theme}
>
> Buck Rogers later became a PC/DOS game...

More than one game - at the very least there were two old games
released for various computers:

- "Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday"
role-playing game by SSI
(based on their Dungeon's & Dragons games)

- "Buck Rogers - Planet of Zoom"
arcade-style game
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327602 is a reply to message #327584] Fri, 02 September 2016 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 2/09/16 05:12, Your Name wrote:
> I should have said that is the original 'Battlestar Galactica' by Glen
> Lason ... *not* the recent reboot garbage by Ron Moore (aka Moore-Ron),
> which is a completely different show that should have used a different
> name.

Yes, it's the old one, with its opening theme done by Mr. StuPhilips.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_opi69O2Q0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5e8k1_BePs

I also remembered Origin's DOS PC game called Wing Commander. :)

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Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327603 is a reply to message #327602] Fri, 02 September 2016 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In article <nqb3p7$rvi$1@dont-email.me>, Mr. Man-wai Chang
<toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2/09/16 05:12, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> I should have said that is the original 'Battlestar Galactica' by Glen
>> Lason ... *not* the recent reboot garbage by Ron Moore (aka Moore-Ron),
>> which is a completely different show that should have used a different
>> name.
>
> Yes, it's the old one, with its opening theme done by Mr. StuPhilips.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_opi69O2Q0
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5e8k1_BePs
>
> I also remembered Origin's DOS PC game called Wing Commander. :)

There were quite a few movies that came out after Star Wars and tried
to cash-in on the new sci-fi craze ... most of them weren't very good.
I remember seeing "Battle Beyond the Stars" and "The Last Starfighter",
as well as the pilot for the horrible "Galactica 1980" TV series which
was shown in cinemas here.
Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #327660 is a reply to message #327584] Fri, 02 September 2016 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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In addition to Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday there was also its sequel, Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed. Also based on the same D&D engine I believe.



Re: William Shatner: "Star Trek Owes A Big Debt To Star Wars" [message #328417 is a reply to message #327603] Sat, 10 September 2016 11:32 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mr. Man-wai Chang

On 2/09/16 14:55, Your Name wrote:
>
> There were quite a few movies that came out after Star Wars and tried
> to cash-in on the new sci-fi craze ... most of them weren't very good.
> I remember seeing "Battle Beyond the Stars" and "The Last Starfighter",
> as well as the pilot for the horrible "Galactica 1980" TV series which
> was shown in cinemas here.

I think Gundam from Japan was and is quite successful.... But one may
argue whether it was based on Star Wars. It did adopt the light saber
idea to become beam saber.

--
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