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The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419554] Thu, 09 March 2023 21:46 Go to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
different, device.

But now I can't find what I saw!

What I saw was like this:

The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
ZX80.

The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
Ace.

Now I can't find that computer at all!

Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.

But not the device I had seen before.

Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

John Savard
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419557 is a reply to message #419554] Fri, 10 March 2023 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D.J. is currently offline  D.J.
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca>
wrote:
> I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
> the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
> different, device.
>
> But now I can't find what I saw!
>
> What I saw was like this:
>
> The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
> ZX80.
>
> The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.
>
> But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
> Ace.
>
> Now I can't find that computer at all!
>
> Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
> ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
> Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
> Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
>
> But not the device I had seen before.
>
> Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
> dream?

Have you looked on youtube ? There are ZX-81 channels on there.
--
Jim
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419560 is a reply to message #419554] Fri, 10 March 2023 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
> the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
> different, device.
>
> But now I can't find what I saw!
>
> What I saw was like this:
>
> The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
> ZX80.
>
> The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.
>
> But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
> Ace.
>
> Now I can't find that computer at all!
>
> Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
> ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
> Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
> Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
>
> But not the device I had seen before.
>
> Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
> dream?

Another blast from the past! Many fond memories of Sinclair. I think what you
may have seen was one of the Soviet clones... potentially a "Digra" or "Hobeta"
varient. I'm not sure which was a clone of the Sincialr ZX81 and which was the
clone of the ZX Spectrum though.


--
OldbieOne [TM]
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419561 is a reply to message #419554] Fri, 10 March 2023 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

<snipped>
>
> Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
> dream?

I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
help

http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm



--
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419564 is a reply to message #419554] Fri, 10 March 2023 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc wrote:
>
> I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
> the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
> different, device.
>
> But now I can't find what I saw!
>
> What I saw was like this:
>
> The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
> ZX80.

The ZX80 is bulgy, the ZX81 flat, no?

> The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

Rubber or "chiclet"? Or even real keys?

> But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
> Ace.
>
> Now I can't find that computer at all!
>
> Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
> ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
> Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
> Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.

Probably not. But Acorn tried to compete with the (later) Spectrum with
the Electron. Might have the same shape and similar colours. But no
FORTH. AFAIK the Ace was the *only* home computer coming with FORTH,
while every other came with BASIC.

Also "bulgy" and able to deal with roms was the Atari 400.

> But not the device I had seen before.
>
> Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
> dream?

It's hard to look into your dreams when not even you can. ;-)
--
Andreas
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419567 is a reply to message #419564] Fri, 10 March 2023 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 12:15:50 PM UTC-7, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

>> The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

> Rubber or "chiclet"? Or even real keys?

Just the same sort of keyboard as the ZX80 or ZX81. But not only were
they red, like on the MicroAce, but unlike the MicroAce, where the keys
were on a white background, I think the background was black, like on
the ZX80.

John Savard
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419568 is a reply to message #419561] Fri, 10 March 2023 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 10:59:36 AM UTC-7, OldbieOne wrote:

> I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
> help
>
> http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm

Thank you, but this was definitely a computer that was for sale in the United
States.

John Savard
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419570 is a reply to message #419568] Fri, 10 March 2023 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 14:20:47 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 10:59:36a??AM UTC-7, OldbieOne wrote:
>
>> I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
>> help
>>
>> http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm
>
> Thank you, but this was definitely a computer that was for sale in the United
> States.

In that case I'm at a loss, John. Sorry :(

Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.

Just a thoughy.

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c =503

If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!



--
OldbieOne [TM]
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419573 is a reply to message #419570] Fri, 10 March 2023 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-7, OldbieOne wrote:

> Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
> sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
>
> Just a thoughy.
>
> https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c =503
>
> If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
> version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!

It's definitely not. I'm aware of that one, it is noted on my pages about
the history of the computer, at

http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/his0702.htm

According to the information I have, it wasn't actually a clone, but because
the Radio Shack Color Computer was constructed almost exactly from the
same 6809 reference design provided by Motorola that the designers of the
Dragon 32 used, the Dragon 32 was considered to be a Color Computer clone.

But it actually just missed being so.

John Savard
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419576 is a reply to message #419554] Fri, 10 March 2023 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 18:59:22 -0500, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 17:57:49 GMT, OldbieOne wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> did make
>> me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>>
>>> Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
>>> ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
>>> Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
>>> Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
>>>
>>> But not the device I had seen before.
>>>
>>> Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
>>> dream?
>>
>> Another blast from the past! Many fond memories of Sinclair. I think what you
>> may have seen was one of the Soviet clones... potentially a "Digra" or "Hobeta"
>> varient. I'm not sure which was a clone of the Sincialr ZX81 and which was the
>> clone of the ZX Spectrum though.
>
> I think one clone was called what would be translated to "Peter The
> Great". *g* Hmm, cannot verify this at this moment though.

That one I can't say I've run across!


--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419577 is a reply to message #419573] Fri, 10 March 2023 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2023 17:33:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 5:13:14a??PM UTC-7, OldbieOne wrote:
>
>> Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
>> sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
>>
>> Just a thoughy.
>>
>> https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c =503
>>
>> If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
>> version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!
>
> It's definitely not. I'm aware of that one, it is noted on my pages about
> the history of the computer, at
>
> http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/his0702.htm
>
> According to the information I have, it wasn't actually a clone, but because
> the Radio Shack Color Computer was constructed almost exactly from the
> same 6809 reference design provided by Motorola that the designers of the
> Dragon 32 used, the Dragon 32 was considered to be a Color Computer clone.
>
> But it actually just missed being so.

Interesting... it wasn't what I thought it was. A few years ago someone was
selling these online, NIB, for something like $80 if I remember correctly. Then
in a blink of an eye, they were gone. I wish I'd have picked one up.

I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn Electron, BBC
model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have scored a Dragon to
round out the UK contingent of my collection.


--
OldbieOne [TM]
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419580 is a reply to message #419577] Sat, 11 March 2023 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
> Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
> scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.

There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
worked on the development of two of them):

The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.

The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.

The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC

Amstrad: various machines

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419583 is a reply to message #419580] Sat, 11 March 2023 12:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT
> info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
>> Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
>> scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.
>
> There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
> worked on the development of two of them):
>
> The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
> his teeth.

Never heard of this one before

> The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
> ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
> I worked on it as a student.

This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
though I never saw one in person.

> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
> were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
> to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
> with just enough to recover his train of thought after
> a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

Another new one on me. I wonder if there are some still around. I'll have to
check the auction sites later.

> The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
> a steel case - the business version of the BBC

I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't really have
much drive to find one. I'm sure prices are much higher than the regular B as
well when they come up for sale.

> Amstrad: various machines

Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!

Okay, so he does have a place in British computing history, but his products
were mostly snake oil. Lived over there full time from 82 till 94, and my
memories of Amstrad were that PC512 that wasn't really a PC despite its name,
the CPC464, and various cheap crappy sounding "hi-fi" offerings that were
astoundingly bad even for it's price point.

I mean, he did make tech that was financially accessible, but I was always left
with the impression that it was a false economy that came at the cost of
manufacture quality and compatability.

I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with you,
lol!

What I really would like to find is a good SD card interface that looks like it
matches the Electron, a NOS Sinclair joystick interface, a Technical Software
TS-1 radio interface for the Spectrum (I'm sure it's probably close to
Unobtainium at this point in time), and a working microdrive. And now, possibly
a MK14 and Lynx.

But I really don't want an Amstrad, lol!




--
OldbieOne [TM]
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419584 is a reply to message #419583] Sat, 11 March 2023 14:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:43:48 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> did make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism

>> The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
>> his teeth.
>
> Never heard of this one before

It was very early.

>> The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
>> ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
>> I worked on it as a student.
>
> This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
> though I never saw one in person.

It was the original holder of the contract to be the BBC microl but
because everyone believed Ferranti's ULA specs Newbury Labs couldn't get it
into production and Grundy finally put the TTL prototype design into
production (shades of the ZX80 here) and lost a lot of money in the process.

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=176

>> The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor
>> in
>> a steel case - the business version of the BBC
>
> I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't

From the outside it was a twin floppy CP/M (well CPN a clone we
wrote) machine, it used the BBC B as an I/O subsystem. We had a CPN program
that could lever a BBC micro program onto the BBC and run it but I don't
think that or the floppies full of BBC games we had were ever let out. I
don't think any CP/M machine ever beat it's 63.5k TPA. It weighed a tonne
and was built like a tank:

Hah there's an advert online:

https://nosher.net/archives/computers/micro_decision_1982-05 _002

Hmm I wonder if I should tell them that the "early possible
prototype" was in fact the second edition using a plastic case made by
Peerless Foam Mouldings to replace the heavy and expensive folded steel
case.

There was also the Torch Z80 disc pack for the BBC B, two 400K
floppies, the Torch Z80 card and a copy of CPN. There were a *lot* more of
those sold than the Torch Communicator.

>> Amstrad: various machines
>
> Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!

It is not true that the M stood for Mother F****r - unless you talk
to any of his ex-employees. By all accounts he was even worse to work for
than Sinclair, and that's going some (despite growing up in Cambridge there
were two companies I wouldn't work for Sinclair and Acorn - I knew too
many people who had).

> I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with
> you, lol!

<grin> I never wanted one.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419596 is a reply to message #419580] Mon, 13 March 2023 06:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Leighton is currently offline  Andy Leighton
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT
> info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
>> Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
>> scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.
>
> There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
> worked on the development of two of them):
>
> The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
> his teeth.
>
> The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
> ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
> I worked on it as a student.
>
> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
> were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
> to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
> with just enough to recover his train of thought after
> a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
>
> The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
> a steel case - the business version of the BBC
>
> Amstrad: various machines

I would also add the Acorn Atom (and/or one of the Eurocard Acorn systems)
and a Memotech MTX512. Maybe even an Oric-1 (or Atmos).

Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419609 is a reply to message #419596] Tue, 14 March 2023 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT
>> info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>>
>>> I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
>>> Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
>>> scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.
>>
>> There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
>> worked on the development of two of them):
>>
>> The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
>> his teeth.
>>
>> The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
>> ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
>> I worked on it as a student.
>>
>> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
>> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
>> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
>> were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
>> to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
>> with just enough to recover his train of thought after
>> a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
>>
>> The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
>> a steel case - the business version of the BBC
>>
>> Amstrad: various machines
>
> I would also add the Acorn Atom (and/or one of the Eurocard Acorn systems)
> and a Memotech MTX512. Maybe even an Oric-1 (or Atmos).
>
> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The other machines are new to me, but Googling the Oric definitely sent me down
an interesting rabbit-hole this morning.




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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419610 is a reply to message #419609] Tue, 14 March 2023 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: snipeco.2

OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:

> Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.

--
^Ï^. – Sn!pe – My pet rock Gordon just is.

<https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419611 is a reply to message #419584] Tue, 14 March 2023 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 19:14:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:43:48 GMT
> info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> did make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism
>
>>> The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
>>> his teeth.
>>
>> Never heard of this one before
>
> It was very early.

Looks like it was a kit?

>>> The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
>>> ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
>>> I worked on it as a student.
>>
>> This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
>> though I never saw one in person.
>
> It was the original holder of the contract to be the BBC microl but
> because everyone believed Ferranti's ULA specs Newbury Labs couldn't get it
> into production and Grundy finally put the TTL prototype design into
> production (shades of the ZX80 here) and lost a lot of money in the process.
>
> https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=176

Definitely seems like it would be an interesting addition to the collection!

You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project? I recalled a Hack-A-Day
post a few years ago of a strange factory walkthrough by a man in period garb
supposedly the ghost of Ferranti himself.

Here it is. Odd, but strangely watchable:
https://hackaday.com/2021/09/15/ferrantis-ghost/

>>> The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor
>>> in
>>> a steel case - the business version of the BBC
>>
>> I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't
>
> From the outside it was a twin floppy CP/M (well CPN a clone we
> wrote) machine, it used the BBC B as an I/O subsystem. We had a CPN program
> that could lever a BBC micro program onto the BBC and run it but I don't
> think that or the floppies full of BBC games we had were ever let out. I
> don't think any CP/M machine ever beat it's 63.5k TPA. It weighed a tonne
> and was built like a tank:
>
> Hah there's an advert online:
>
> https://nosher.net/archives/computers/micro_decision_1982-05 _002

A "massive" 800k storage, lol!! How quickly times have moved on! Shame that the
software was never released, would be fun trying to get Beeb games running on a
platform like this.

I have to say that out of all of the machines listed, this one peaks my interest
the most. Who knows what the eBay Gods may someday provide...

> Hmm I wonder if I should tell them that the "early possible
> prototype" was in fact the second edition using a plastic case made by
> Peerless Foam Mouldings to replace the heavy and expensive folded steel
> case.

Some of the images I've found show what looks to be a PET-like unit, with the
keyboard as an extension of the monitor housing, and others showing a keyboard
attached with a cord. Were there two models, or is one the prototype and the
other the commercially available model?

> There was also the Torch Z80 disc pack for the BBC B, two 400K
> floppies, the Torch Z80 card and a copy of CPN. There were a *lot* more of
> those sold than the Torch Communicator.
>
>>> Amstrad: various machines
>>
>> Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!
>
> It is not true that the M stood for Mother F****r - unless you talk
> to any of his ex-employees.

I heard.....

> By all accounts he was even worse to work for
> than Sinclair, and that's going some (despite growing up in Cambridge there

That's difficult to imagine. I had an uncle who worked for Cambridge before it
was renamed Sinclair, and the reason he didn't stay long was because of Sir
Clive shouting at people.

> were two companies I wouldn't work for Sinclair and Acorn - I knew too
> many people who had).

I was secretly hoping you might have had a personal anecdote to share, lol!
But I honestly woudln't wish for anyone to have had to work in what I gather
were two extremely toxic environments.

>> I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with
>> you, lol!
>
> <grin> I never wanted one.

My sister had a PCW machine. Garbage, utter garbage. Overpriced word processor
and certainly not a "PC" by any stretch. I did warn her at the time, but she
wouldn't listen.

Caveat emptor ;)

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419614 is a reply to message #419609] Tue, 14 March 2023 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Leighton is currently offline  Andy Leighton
Messages: 203
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>
>> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>
> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
> didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).

The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

--
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419615 is a reply to message #419580] Tue, 14 March 2023 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Richmond

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
> were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
> to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
> with just enough to recover his train of thought after
> a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
instead it went back up and blanked the top line.

https://archive.org/details/Camputers_Lynx_TOSEC_2012_04_23
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419616 is a reply to message #419614] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
Messages: 416
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Andy Leighton wrote:

> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
> software for the II

We used the II with a barcode head as part of a warehouse stock control
system.
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419617 is a reply to message #419615] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Richmond

Nobody mentioned Vic 20?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koch-Distribution-RGLA05-uk-61st-Vi c20-Electronic/dp/B08BSMKXKV
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419618 is a reply to message #419617] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Richmond

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> writes:

> Nobody mentioned Vic 20?
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koch-Distribution-RGLA05-uk-61st-Vi c20-Electronic/dp/B08BSMKXKV

Oh, that's not a real one, it's a game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIC-20#/media/File:Commodore-V IC-20-FL.jpg
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419619 is a reply to message #419614] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
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On 2023-03-14, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>>
>>> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>>
>> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
>> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
>> didn't know it was British!
>
> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
> software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
> remember exactly what it was for).
>
> The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
> remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
> were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.
>

I had a Sharp Zaurus. Actually a useful machine, when I was in
business, it could hold a lot of data in an accessible way.


--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419620 is a reply to message #419619] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
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Senior Member
maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
> On 2023-03-14, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>>>
>>>> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>>>
>>> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
>>> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
>>> didn't know it was British!
>>
>> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
>> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
>> software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
>> remember exactly what it was for).
>>
>> The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
>> remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
>> were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.
>>
>
> I had a Sharp Zaurus. Actually a useful machine, when I was in
> business, it could hold a lot of data in an accessible way.
>

I have one as well. It ran linux.
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419621 is a reply to message #419615] Tue, 14 March 2023 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:56:09 +0000
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
>> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
>> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
>> were sparse comments in the code but they were
>> useless to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
>> with just enough to recover his train of thought
>> after a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
>
> I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
> instead it went back up and blanked the top line.

Yes it did - scrolling three pages of bank switched video ram (one
for each of R, G and B) on a Z80 would have been painful to watch.

> https://archive.org/details/Camputers_Lynx_TOSEC_2012_04_23

Hah, 96k - seems my memory was off. Ah yes 48k base and four banks
of 16K three of which were video. Many years ago I had the fun of attaching
one to a scanning electron microscope to provide false colour pictures.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419622 is a reply to message #419621] Tue, 14 March 2023 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Richmond

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:56:09 +0000
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>
>>> The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
>>> colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
>>> guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
>>> were sparse comments in the code but they were
>>> useless to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
>>> with just enough to recover his train of thought
>>> after a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
>>
>> I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
>> instead it went back up and blanked the top line.
>
> Yes it did - scrolling three pages of bank switched video ram (one
> for each of R, G and B) on a Z80 would have been painful to watch.
>

The Acorn Electron used hardware scrolling to get around that problem.
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419623 is a reply to message #419614] Tue, 14 March 2023 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:06:47 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>>
>>> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>>
>> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
>> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
>> didn't know it was British!
>
> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
> software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
> remember exactly what it was for).
>
> The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
> remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
> were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
that time.

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419624 is a reply to message #419622] Tue, 14 March 2023 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:29:03 +0000
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

> The Acorn Electron used hardware scrolling to get around that problem.

The Electron didn't have bank switched video memory to contend with.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419625 is a reply to message #419610] Tue, 14 March 2023 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
Messages: 57
Registered: December 2004
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:12:47 +0000, snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) did make me
awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>
>> Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
>
> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.

I remember it well. Feature-limited, but Free Agent did the job. It did enough
to steer users towards the paid versions though, as I'm pretty sure Alcatel
snatched up Forte at some point, so it was obviously making money and had a
customer base Alacatel wanted to acquire.

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419626 is a reply to message #419623] Tue, 14 March 2023 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:06:47 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
> make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>>>
>>>> Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>>>
>>> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
>>> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
>>> didn't know it was British!
>>
>> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
>> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
>> software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
>> remember exactly what it was for).
>>
>> The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
>> remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
>> were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.
>
> Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
> time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
> the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
> that time.
>

Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

> --
> OldbieOne [TM]
> The One Who Tells It Like It is!
> Brought to you by RetroPC using
> Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419629 is a reply to message #419611] Wed, 15 March 2023 04:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gordon Henderson is currently offline  Gordon Henderson
Messages: 73
Registered: April 2013
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Member
In article <64117cd0.3478312@news.newsdemon.com>,
OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:

> You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?

Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
user-programmable)

So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
as applications for other non home-computer use.

So the computer makers designed the logic required, sent it off to
Ferranti and then got the chips back... Typically large 40-pin devices.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_array for some generic waffle
on them.

-Gordon
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419630 is a reply to message #419629] Wed, 15 March 2023 05:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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Senior Member
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC)
Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:

> In article <64117cd0.3478312@news.newsdemon.com>,
> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>
>> You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?
>
> Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
> like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
> user-programmable)
>
> So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
> Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
> as applications for other non home-computer use.

Yep and in Cambridge circa 1980 everybody tried to run too much of
the ULA too fast[1] and they overheated - the BBC model B construction grew
a 'case support' that coincidentally acted as a heatsink for the vidproc
ULA. The ZX80 with all the TTL happened because the ULA that appeared in the
ZX81 wasn't going to be ready in time. The Newbrain suffered a similar fate
as Ferranti failed to deliver ULAs that worked and Newbury Labs ran out of
money - Grundy manufactured it in TTL based on the hand wired (in case) TTL
prototypes (I often wondered what happened to the ones I delivered to the
BBC for filming).

[1] Ferranti failed to specify that you couldn't run nearly all the gates at
maximum speed without it overheating. If only we'd thought of using fans!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419631 is a reply to message #419626] Wed, 15 March 2023 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:19:06 +0000
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Bbbutt 640k ought to be enough for anyone.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419632 is a reply to message #419626] Wed, 15 March 2023 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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Registered: December 2004
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:19:06 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT
> info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:06:47 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>> make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:
>>
>>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:55:25 GMT, OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 10:36:42 +0000, Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> did
>>>> >
>>>> >Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.
>>>>
>>>> I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
>>>> It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
>>>> didn't know it was British!
>>>
>>> The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
>>> capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
>>> software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
>>> remember exactly what it was for).
>>>
>>> The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
>>> remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
>>> were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.
>>
>> Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
>> time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
>> the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
>> that time.
>>
>
> Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements: "640k should be
enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419633 is a reply to message #419629] Wed, 15 March 2023 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> did make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism
when they didst announce:

> In article <64117cd0.3478312@news.newsdemon.com>,
> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>
>> You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?
>
> Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
> like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
> user-programmable)
>
> So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
> Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
> as applications for other non home-computer use.
>
> So the computer makers designed the logic required, sent it off to
> Ferranti and then got the chips back... Typically large 40-pin devices.
>
> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_array for some generic waffle
> on them.

Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the Sinclair's
shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

In my time with RACAL we used to curse Ferranti quite frequently ;)


--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419634 is a reply to message #419630] Wed, 15 March 2023 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:16:08 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC)
> Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <64117cd0.3478312@news.newsdemon.com>,
>> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?
>>
>> Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
>> like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
>> user-programmable)
>>
>> So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
>> Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
>> as applications for other non home-computer use.
>
> Yep and in Cambridge circa 1980 everybody tried to run too much of
> the ULA too fast[1] and they overheated - the BBC model B construction grew
> a 'case support' that coincidentally acted as a heatsink for the vidproc
> ULA. The ZX80 with all the TTL happened because the ULA that appeared in the
> ZX81 wasn't going to be ready in time. The Newbrain suffered a similar fate
> as Ferranti failed to deliver ULAs that worked and Newbury Labs ran out of
> money - Grundy manufactured it in TTL based on the hand wired (in case) TTL
> prototypes (I often wondered what happened to the ones I delivered to the
> BBC for filming).
>
> [1] Ferranti failed to specify that you couldn't run nearly all the gates at
> maximum speed without it overheating. If only we'd thought of using fans!

This brings me to a wild proposition....

Overclocking a Sinclair Spectrum should be theoretically possible, and with a
modern heatsink and fan assembly, not too difficult to accomplish for the heck
of it

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OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419635 is a reply to message #419610] Wed, 15 March 2023 09:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kurt Weiske

To: snipeco.2
-=> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

sn> OldbieOne <info@whitexmasradio.com> wrote:

> Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.


Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients went
all downhill from there... :)


kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet




.... Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.
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Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419636 is a reply to message #419631] Wed, 15 March 2023 10:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
info is currently offline  info
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On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:17:12 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> did
make me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:19:06 +0000
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"
>
> Bbbutt 640k ought to be enough for anyone.

Exactly! :P

--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC using
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32
Re: The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and? [message #419639 is a reply to message #419633] Wed, 15 March 2023 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT
info@whitexmasradio.com (OldbieOne) wrote:

> Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
> Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two) to
replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all had
trouble as a result.

I'm not sure why everyone chose Ferranti at the time, I expect they
offered more for less than the competition and then failed to deliver it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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