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Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397658 is a reply to message #397657] Mon, 10 August 2020 12:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:33:34 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Like the guy(?) whose sole reason for existence is to post replies to
> every one of Rod Speeds posts.

I thought that was Rod Speed.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397663 is a reply to message #397654] Mon, 10 August 2020 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 16:01:17 +0200, Rink
<rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:

> Op 9-8-2020 om 20:34 schreef J. Clarke:
>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 20:09:41 +0200, Rink wrote:
>>> Op 9-8-2020 om 19:18 schreef J. Clarke:
>>>> On 9 Aug 2020 15:15:22 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>> > On Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:09:29 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Sun, 09 Aug 2020 10:40, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> >>> A damn shame, the EU looks like a very good thing to me.
>>>> >>> Hopefully a way of ending centuries of European conflict and putting the
>>>> >>> EU on an even basis with the US.
>>>> >>> Now if we could get a South American and an African union going.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I suppose Usenet, but more important the Internet can eventually end the
>>>> >>> curse of the Tower of Babel.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My impression is that the problem with the EU is not with the concept
>>>> >> but with the execution.
>>>> >
>>>> > It isn't perfect, but membership is a lot better than non-membership.
>>>> > Being able to work i 28 countries and pass between them with no
>>>> > restriction.
>>>>
>>>> In North America and parts of the Pacific you can work in 50 countries
>>>> and pass between them with no restriction.
>>>
>>> Those are called States and the form together one country.....
>>
>> Doesn't matter what you call it, each has its own laws, its own
>> courts, and these days its own king.
>
>
> I was reacting at you phrase:
>>>> In North America and parts of the Pacific you can work
>>>> in 50 countries and pass between them with no restriction.
>
> It doesn't matter what I call it, or what you call it.
> It has a name: United STATES of America.
>
> And as far I know there are no kings in the USA.

You haven't seen governors busily making and enforcing new laws
without any regard to the legislature or the courts.

> And in Europe every member of the EU is a country.

OK, tell us how a "state" in the US is different from a "country" in
the EU.

Note, I live in the US, I know how the system works and I really don't
like what I'm seeing happen right now.
Re: EU, was Is the Eternal September over [message #397664 is a reply to message #397654] Mon, 10 August 2020 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
> Op 9-8-2020 om 20:34 schreef J. Clarke:
>> On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 20:09:41 +0200, Rink wrote:
>>> Op 9-8-2020 om 19:18 schreef J. Clarke:
>>>> On 9 Aug 2020 15:15:22 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>> > On Sun, 09 Aug 2020 11:09:29 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Sun, 09 Aug 2020 10:40, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> >>> A damn shame, the EU looks like a very good thing to me.
>>>> >>> Hopefully a way of ending centuries of European conflict and putting the
>>>> >>> EU on an even basis with the US.
>>>> >>> Now if we could get a South American and an African union going.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I suppose Usenet, but more important the Internet can eventually end the
>>>> >>> curse of the Tower of Babel.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My impression is that the problem with the EU is not with the concept
>>>> >> but with the execution.
>>>> >
>>>> > It isn't perfect, but membership is a lot better than non-membership.
>>>> > Being able to work i 28 countries and pass between them with no
>>>> > restriction.
>>>>
>>>> In North America and parts of the Pacific you can work in 50 countries
>>>> and pass between them with no restriction.
>>>
>>> Those are called States and the form together one country.....
>>
>> Doesn't matter what you call it, each has its own laws, its own
>> courts, and these days its own king.
>
>
> I was reacting at you phrase:
>>>> In North America and parts of the Pacific you can work
>>>> in 50 countries and pass between them with no restriction.
>
> It doesn't matter what I call it, or what you call it.
> It has a name: United STATES of America.
>
> And as far I know there are no kings in the USA.
>
>
> And in Europe every member of the EU is a country.
>
> Rink
>

No clear definition of state vs. nation va. country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_(polity)

The difference between the US and the EU is the amount of sovereignty the
“states” have given up to the central authority. The EU is relatively
centralized in some areas (product standards, etc.) and decentralized in
others (no centralized armed forces - well, OK, they have something, but
not a real army, and dependent of national contingents). It’s an experiment
and no one knows how will it turn out. Will it become more centralized, and
turn into a real country? Will it come apart? is it possible it can
continue as it is?

--
Pete
UK / EU split (was Re: Is the Eternal September over) [message #397665 is a reply to message #397619] Mon, 10 August 2020 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lawrence Statton is currently offline  Lawrence Statton
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Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>
>> As far as I can tell, the major issue is Brexit.
>> I suppose they can get by without England, but it's a major setback.
>
> I think you mean "the UK". They might get Scotland back at some point,
> though.
>
> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/whats-difference-b etween-
> england-britain-and-uk-180959558/
>
> NOt half as much as it is a setback for the UK, though.


It's like an amputation at the knee. It's definitely hard on the body,
and it might kill you, but it's definitely going to be a bigger issue
for the foot.
Re: UK / EU split (was Re: Is the Eternal September over) [message #397666 is a reply to message #397665] Mon, 10 August 2020 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> wrote:
> Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, the major issue is Brexit.
>>> I suppose they can get by without England, but it's a major setback.
>>
>> I think you mean "the UK". They might get Scotland back at some point,
>> though.
>>
>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/whats-difference-b etween-
>> england-britain-and-uk-180959558/
>>
>> NOt half as much as it is a setback for the UK, though.
>
>
> It's like an amputation at the knee. It's definitely hard on the body,
> and it might kill you, but it's definitely going to be a bigger issue
> for the foot.
>
>

It’s not like they have the Empire to fall back on any more.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397667 is a reply to message #397663] Mon, 10 August 2020 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:00:16 -0400
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

>> And in Europe every member of the EU is a country.
>
> OK, tell us how a "state" in the US is different from a "country" in
> the EU.

There's a little matter of recognition by other countries, doing
things like issuing passports (that are accepted), membership in
international organisations (UN, NATO ...). Colorado isn't and can't be a
UN member, France is.

> Note, I live in the US, I know how the system works and I really don't
> like what I'm seeing happen right now.

AIUI the states were proto-nations at the time they combined to
form the United States, they hadn't quite become nations or perhaps had
only just become nations in some cases, they've been combined into the US
for over two hundred years. The European nations OTOH had (for the most
part) centuries of existence as independent nations (much of it spent
fighting each other) before they decided to start the process that has led
to the EU we see today. That process was started in the 1950s.

It may well in the long term be seen as a difference of degree and
timing rather than fundamental - but there are probably some who would
rather see war than a United States of Europe today.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: UK / EU split (was Re: Is the Eternal September over) [message #397671 is a reply to message #397665] Mon, 10 August 2020 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:48:17 -0500
lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> wrote:

> It's like an amputation at the knee. It's definitely hard on the body,
> and it might kill you, but it's definitely going to be a bigger issue
> for the foot.

Not a bad analogy, especially since, as the saw is working through
the bone, an infection has set in and spread pretty well everywhere causing
far more problems for both body and foot than the bone saw which is still
working away.

I know which side of the cut I want to be on (and I'm on it).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: UK / EU split (was Re: Is the Eternal September over) [message #397672 is a reply to message #397666] Mon, 10 August 2020 18:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 13:05:52 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> lawrence <lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom> wrote:
>> Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> writes:
>>>>
>>>> As far as I can tell, the major issue is Brexit.
>>>> I suppose they can get by without England, but it's a major setback.
>>>
>>> I think you mean "the UK". They might get Scotland back at some point,
>>> though.
>>>
>>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/whats-difference-b etween-
>>> england-britain-and-uk-180959558/
>>>
>>> NOt half as much as it is a setback for the UK, though.
>>
>>
>> It's like an amputation at the knee. It's definitely hard on the body,
>> and it might kill you, but it's definitely going to be a bigger issue
>> for the foot.
>>
>>
>
> It’s not like they have the Empire to fall back on any more.

And they sold most of what was left of their industry. I guess
they're going to have to nationalize it again and watch it sink.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397704 is a reply to message #397554] Tue, 11 August 2020 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
> start using Usenet?

I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
"You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"

With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397705 is a reply to message #397704] Tue, 11 August 2020 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>> start using Usenet?
>
> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"

That’s one of the things I most like about it. If I want pictures I can
always go get them. Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397706 is a reply to message #397705] Tue, 11 August 2020 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
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On 2020-08-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>
> That’s one of the things I most like about it. If I want pictures I can
> always go get them. Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.

Instructional videos are very useful for some things, like how to carry
out a certain practical, physical task. But people seem to be way too
fond of them, often using them when simple text and maybe a few
screenshots/other images would do just fine.

I don't want to have to devote my full attention to a video for many
minutes if the latter is the case.

Niklas
--
One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking
zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C
programs. -- Robert Firth
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397707 is a reply to message #397704] Tue, 11 August 2020 14:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faux_dameron is currently offline  faux_dameron
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Member
On 11 Aug 2020 17:47:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would even
> care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The fact that
> Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away. "You mean,
> like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"

That depends on what you mean by "young people". Do you mean the people
who make Tiktok videos and buy Apple products because they are fashion
accessories or do you mean the young STEM enthusiasts who actually care
about technology. *No, they are not the same*.

For the former, no Usenet is not for them.

For the latter, it could be. The attraction to a form of communication
that isn't tied to a single corporation could be quite interesting. When
I write about introducing people to Usenet, this is the group that I am
talking about.

I also have no desire to tell people how to pirate crap from
alt.binaries.* That's where most of the users are because they have no
idea that Usenet is anything but that.

JE
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397709 is a reply to message #397705] Tue, 11 August 2020 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:26:44 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.

In today's video we're going to talk about how to do $Y with $X
<I know that's why I selected it> $X is an amazing thing one of the best of
it's kind for several <and on and on and on and on ... with pictures and
sound effects - will you STFU and get to the point>. However it suffers
from $Y which results in <and on and on and on and on ... with animations
and sound effects ... please will you STFU and get to the point>. To fix it
you simply do this <2 seconds of blurred video with the most difficult bits
that you're stuck on already done ... OH FFS! I waited for *this*>. Thank
you for watching you can find more of my amazingly useless done>videos at
https://... <not on your nelly>.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397711 is a reply to message #397704] Tue, 11 August 2020 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>> start using Usenet?
>
> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>
> With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
> advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
> out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
> like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).

Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
in most groups.

Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397712 is a reply to message #397709] Tue, 11 August 2020 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
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On 2020-08-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> In today's video we're going to talk about how to do $Y with $X
> <I know that's why I selected it> $X is an amazing thing one of the best of
> it's kind for several <and on and on and on and on ... with pictures and
> sound effects - will you STFU and get to the point>. However it suffers
> from $Y which results in <and on and on and on and on ... with animations
> and sound effects ... please will you STFU and get to the point>. To fix it
> you simply do this <2 seconds of blurred video with the most difficult bits
> that you're stuck on already done ... OH FFS! I waited for *this*>. Thank
> you for watching you can find more of my amazingly useless done>videos at
> https://... <not on your nelly>.

Sing it, brother!

Niklas
--
"Having major planets disappear is always a bad sign." - Jim Blinn
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397713 is a reply to message #397707] Tue, 11 August 2020 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:39:47 -0000 (UTC)
Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> For the latter, it could be. The attraction to a form of communication
> that isn't tied to a single corporation could be quite interesting. When
> I write about introducing people to Usenet, this is the group that I am
> talking about.

Pretty much the group that populated USENET when it was new, shiny
and seriously limited in bandwidth.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397714 is a reply to message #397706] Tue, 11 August 2020 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 11 Aug 2020 18:37:11 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:

> On 2020-08-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>
>> That’s one of the things I most like about it. If I want pictures I can
>> always go get them. Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.
>
> Instructional videos are very useful for some things, like how to carry
> out a certain practical, physical task. But people seem to be way too
> fond of them, often using them when simple text and maybe a few
> screenshots/other images would do just fine.

Yep. And they are often also too fond of themselves. Ten minutes of
some fat slob nattering, 30 seconds of him showing you how to do
something, probably wrong, and then another ten minutes of fat slob
nattering.

The ones who know how to plan out what they're going to show and just
cover the material are gold.

> I don't want to have to devote my full attention to a video for many
> minutes if the latter is the case.
>
> Niklas
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397715 is a reply to message #397714] Tue, 11 August 2020 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:46:32 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:

> Yep. And they are often also too fond of themselves. Ten minutes of
> some fat slob nattering, 30 seconds of him showing you how to do
> something, probably wrong, and then another ten minutes of fat slob
> nattering.
>
> The ones who know how to plan out what they're going to show and just
> cover the material are gold.

They all know.

They are just trying to get their 'watched minutes' up to a monetization
threshold.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397716 is a reply to message #397714] Tue, 11 August 2020 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On 11 Aug 2020 18:37:11 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-08-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>>
>>> That’s one of the things I most like about it. If I want pictures I can
>>> always go get them. Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.
>>
>> Instructional videos are very useful for some things, like how to carry
>> out a certain practical, physical task. But people seem to be way too
>> fond of them, often using them when simple text and maybe a few
>> screenshots/other images would do just fine.
>
> Yep. And they are often also too fond of themselves. Ten minutes of
> some fat slob nattering, 30 seconds of him showing you how to do
> something, probably wrong, and then another ten minutes of fat slob
> nattering.
>
> The ones who know how to plan out what they're going to show and just
> cover the material are gold.

The absolute best videos on YouTube come from Andrew Camarata.
No BS, he just films what he does.
The production quality rivals the best you see on TV.
No, scratch that, way better than anything on TV.
Many are an hour long and that's way too short.

There's something for everybody amazing scenery, heavy equipment,
dogs, problem solving, humor, and inspiration.

Interestingly Andrew went to college for computer studies but
decided to do heavy equipment instead. Sort of like that guy
in office space.

First time I joined a fan club and I don't even like dogs.
I feel like I should make a pilgrimage to Saugerties.
What a beautiful part of the country.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397719 is a reply to message #397714] Tue, 11 August 2020 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Niklas Karlsson is currently offline  Niklas Karlsson
Messages: 265
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2020-08-11, J Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11 Aug 2020 18:37:11 GMT, Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-08-11, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Instructional videos are very useful for some things, like how to carry
>> out a certain practical, physical task. But people seem to be way too
>> fond of them, often using them when simple text and maybe a few
>> screenshots/other images would do just fine.
>
> Yep. And they are often also too fond of themselves. Ten minutes of
> some fat slob nattering, 30 seconds of him showing you how to do
> something, probably wrong, and then another ten minutes of fat slob
> nattering.
>
> The ones who know how to plan out what they're going to show and just
> cover the material are gold.

Exactly! *applause*

Niklas
--
"... I've seen Sun monitors on fire off the side of the multimedia lab.
I've seen NTU lights glitter in the dark near the Mail Gate.
All these things will be lost in time, like the root partition last week.
Time to die...". - Peter Gutmann in alt.sysadmin.recovery
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397723 is a reply to message #397715] Tue, 11 August 2020 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 11 Aug 2020 19:58:33 GMT, Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 15:46:32 -0400, J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> Yep. And they are often also too fond of themselves. Ten minutes of
>> some fat slob nattering, 30 seconds of him showing you how to do
>> something, probably wrong, and then another ten minutes of fat slob
>> nattering.
>>
>> The ones who know how to plan out what they're going to show and just
>> cover the material are gold.
>
> They all know.
>
> They are just trying to get their 'watched minutes' up to a monetization
> threshold.

Never attribute to superior business acumen that which can be
explained by stupidity.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397724 is a reply to message #397709] Tue, 11 August 2020 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-08-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:26:44 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.
>
> In today's video we're going to talk about how to do $Y with $X
> <I know that's why I selected it> $X is an amazing thing one of the best of
> it's kind for several <and on and on and on and on ... with pictures and
> sound effects - will you STFU and get to the point>. However it suffers
> from $Y which results in <and on and on and on and on ... with animations
> and sound effects ... please will you STFU and get to the point>. To fix it
> you simply do this <2 seconds of blurred video with the most difficult bits
> that you're stuck on already done ... OH FFS! I waited for *this*>. Thank
> you for watching you can find more of my amazingly useless done>videos at
> https://... <not on your nelly>.

Hear, hear. That's why I automatically skip over any YouTube references
when I'm trying to find out how to do $Y with $X. A concise textual
description is _so_ much faster than being forced to sit through a
long-winded pseudo-explanation (plus YouTube's ads at the beginning,
and increasingly in the middle as well).

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397725 is a reply to message #397707] Tue, 11 August 2020 18:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2020-08-11, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:

> On 11 Aug 2020 17:47:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would even
>> care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The fact that
>> Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away. "You mean,
>> like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>
> That depends on what you mean by "young people". Do you mean the people
> who make Tiktok videos and buy Apple products because they are fashion
> accessories or do you mean the young STEM enthusiasts who actually care
> about technology. *No, they are not the same*.
>
> For the former, no Usenet is not for them.

Indeed, they're the ones I'm referring to. Unfortunately, they seem to be
an overwhelming majority. Fortunately, they're repelled by Usenet because
it's not shiny.

> For the latter, it could be. The attraction to a form of communication
> that isn't tied to a single corporation could be quite interesting. When
> I write about introducing people to Usenet, this is the group that I am
> talking about.

That's a group worth pursuing, small as they may be. And it's not just
the absence of our favourite monopolies that Usenet offers, but also the
potential for concise, well-written text messages. I hate wading through
unnecessary cruft, and video just makes it a thousand times worse.
("A picture is worth...")

> I also have no desire to tell people how to pirate crap from
> alt.binaries.* That's where most of the users are because they have no
> idea that Usenet is anything but that.

Their ignorance is our bliss.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397727 is a reply to message #397724] Tue, 11 August 2020 19:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On 11 Aug 2020 22:53:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2020-08-11, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 11:26:44 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.
>>
>> In today's video we're going to talk about how to do $Y with $X
>> <I know that's why I selected it> $X is an amazing thing one of the best of
>> it's kind for several <and on and on and on and on ... with pictures and
>> sound effects - will you STFU and get to the point>. However it suffers
>> from $Y which results in <and on and on and on and on ... with animations
>> and sound effects ... please will you STFU and get to the point>. To fix it
>> you simply do this <2 seconds of blurred video with the most difficult bits
>> that you're stuck on already done ... OH FFS! I waited for *this*>. Thank
>> you for watching you can find more of my amazingly useless done>videos at
>> https://... <not on your nelly>.
>
> Hear, hear. That's why I automatically skip over any YouTube references
> when I'm trying to find out how to do $Y with $X. A concise textual
> description is _so_ much faster than being forced to sit through a
> long-winded pseudo-explanation (plus YouTube's ads at the beginning,
> and increasingly in the middle as well).

Yep. I remember a youtube video which took half an hour explaining
how to get a stuck brake rotor off a Jeep. The magic method? Hit it
_hard_ with a Big Friendly Hammer.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397728 is a reply to message #397704] Tue, 11 August 2020 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nomen Nescio is currently offline  Nomen Nescio
Messages: 30
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>> start using Usenet?
>
> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"

Retro is trendy nowadays.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397729 is a reply to message #397711] Tue, 11 August 2020 19:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nomen Nescio is currently offline  Nomen Nescio
Messages: 30
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> writes:

> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.

That was not the real reason. Real reason was that binary Usenet was
getting too big and ISPs choices were to either increase the price or
remove service offering for good. When the State of New York opened an
investigation on child pornographers who used Usenet, many ISPs seen it
as opportunity to get rid of the service.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397730 is a reply to message #397554] Tue, 11 August 2020 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nomen Nescio is currently offline  Nomen Nescio
Messages: 30
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On Sat, 08 Aug 2020 12:16:09 -0400, Dan Espen wrote:
>>
>> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> writes:
>>
>>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real and
>>> living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>> start using Usenet?
>>
>> No, definitely not over.
>> Any doubt in your mind? Head over to alt.home.repair.
>
> Besides that it's mostly spam flooding Newsgroups today. Nothing to do
> with AOL users. AFAIK AOL does no longer offer usenet access. It's over.

AOL does no offer Usenet access since 2005. However, I don't think
Eternal September is tied to AOL. Yes, it's started with AOL, but it was
bound to happen anyway. It's a problem all communities are facing when
they get too popular.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397731 is a reply to message #397711] Tue, 11 August 2020 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>> start using Usenet?
>>
>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>
>> With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
>> advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
>> out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
>> like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).
>
> Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
> in most groups.
>
> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.
>

They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397732 is a reply to message #397731] Tue, 11 August 2020 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:29:01 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>>> start using Usenet?
>>>
>>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>>
>>> With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
>>> advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
>>> out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
>>> like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).
>>
>> Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
>> in most groups.
>>
>> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
>> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.
>>
>
> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.

It costs time and money to convice a judge of that.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397734 is a reply to message #397731] Tue, 11 August 2020 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>>> start using Usenet?
>>>
>>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>>
>>> With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
>>> advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
>>> out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
>>> like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).
>>
>> Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
>> in most groups.
>>
>> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
>> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.
>
> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.

Well, I remember some AG promising to investigate and the next thing I
knew my ISP dropped Usenet.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397735 is a reply to message #397734] Tue, 11 August 2020 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:44:29 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>>> > and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>>> > important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>>> > start using Usenet?
>>>>
>>>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>>>
>>>> With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
>>>> advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
>>>> out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
>>>> like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).
>>>
>>> Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
>>> in most groups.
>>>
>>> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
>>> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.
>>
>> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.
>
> Well, I remember some AG promising to investigate and the next thing I
> knew my ISP dropped Usenet.

In the US you can sue anybody for anything. That doesn't mean that
you'll win, but they still have to put up a defense. If you're sueing
them over something that isn't making enough money for them to pay the
cost of defending it, they'll drop it just to avoid the hassle.

This is one of the things wrong with the US--the courts should be the
last resort, not the first one.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397739 is a reply to message #397705] Wed, 12 August 2020 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:26:44 GMT, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>> start using Usenet?
>>
>> I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>> even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>> fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>> "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>
> That’s one of the things I most like about it. If I want pictures I
can
> always go get them. Let’s not even talk about (ugh) videos.
>
Or ASCII v UTF!


--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397740 is a reply to message #397713] Wed, 12 August 2020 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Kerr-Mudd,John

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 19:28:16 GMT, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 18:39:47 -0000 (UTC)
> Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>
>> For the latter, it could be. The attraction to a form of
>> communication that isn't tied to a single corporation could be quite
>> interesting. When I write about introducing people to Usenet, this is
>> the group that I am talking about.
>
> Pretty much the group that populated USENET when it was new,
> shiny
> and seriously limited in bandwidth.
>
Usenet needs marketing to the twitterati, being text only. Oh noes, what
have I done! It's Eternal September all over again!
</Greg Mitchell>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7-D4T-xlkA

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397744 is a reply to message #397735] Wed, 12 August 2020 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3867
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:

> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 21:44:29 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > On 2020-08-08, Jason Evans <jsevans@mailfence.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> If the Eternal September is over and we care about Usenet as a real
>>>> >> and living form of communication over the Internet, what are the most
>>>> >> important things that we want newbies (and oldies) to know when they
>>>> >> start using Usenet?
>>>> >
>>>> > I wonder whether the question is moot. How many young people would
>>>> > even care about Usenet anymore, even if they knew it existed? The
>>>> > fact that Usenet is text-only is enough to drive most of them away.
>>>> > "You mean, like, no pictures? No videos? Ewww... gross!"
>>>> >
>>>> > With the exception of spammers and con artists - who will ignore all
>>>> > advice anyway - the few who find their way here will generally figure
>>>> > out netiquette themselves, especially if we provide pointers to things
>>>> > like RFC 1855 (once they figure out what an RFC is...).
>>>>
>>>> Actually Usenet allows html and images. By choice it's forbidden
>>>> in most groups.
>>>>
>>>> Oh, yeah, there was that problem of stolen media being posted to Usenet
>>>> that caused most ISPs to run away from Usenet.
>>>
>>> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.
>>
>> Well, I remember some AG promising to investigate and the next thing I
>> knew my ISP dropped Usenet.
>
> In the US you can sue anybody for anything. That doesn't mean that
> you'll win, but they still have to put up a defense. If you're sueing
> them over something that isn't making enough money for them to pay the
> cost of defending it, they'll drop it just to avoid the hassle.
>
> This is one of the things wrong with the US--the courts should be the
> last resort, not the first one.

At the time I remember it was pretty damn easy to get a copy of a movie
just after it was released from the binary groups.

I don't know enough about the court system to have a strong opinion.
I've heard that in some states if you bring a frivolous suit you can
be liable for court costs.

Maybe court procedures could be simplified to some kind of arbitration
where lawyers would not be involved. I guess someone would still have
to be paid for the court time.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397748 is a reply to message #397657] Wed, 12 August 2020 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: gareth evans

On 10/08/2020 16:33, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Like the guy(?) whose sole reason for existence is to post replies to
> every one of Rod Speeds posts.

Peeler?

In his futile efforts to proscribe what he thinks to be SPAM,
he has become the dominant SPAMMER.

BTW, Should you get an email about Pork Luncheon Meat,
then ignore it, for it is SPAM.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397749 is a reply to message #397731] Wed, 12 August 2020 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: gareth evans

On 12/08/2020 01:29, Peter Flass wrote:
>
> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.
>

Not sure that's the way of things today, with organisations
such as Facebook being brought to account because of user-posted
material.

But, yes, I agree, the postal services are not reponsible for
the contents of what they carry and that same principle should be
extended to ISPs.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397750 is a reply to message #397749] Wed, 12 August 2020 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:50:46 +0100
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 12/08/2020 01:29, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.
>>
>
> But, yes, I agree, the postal services are not reponsible for
> the contents of what they carry and that same principle should be
> extended to ISPs.

ISPs have always claimed 'common carrier' status and declined any
responsibility for the actions of their users, which in the days of
dial-up ISPs hosting small websites, mail lists and USENET for their users
was sensible. What is going on now is that this is being challenged by cases
being brought against the big social media companies. As I see it their
trouble is going to be that they are *already* filtering and blocking
people and imposing conditions on content after the content has already
been published.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397752 is a reply to message #397750] Wed, 12 August 2020 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jorgen Grahn is currently offline  Jorgen Grahn
Messages: 606
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Wed, 2020-08-12, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 14:50:46 +0100
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On 12/08/2020 01:29, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> They’re not legally responsible for user-posted content.
>>>
>>
>> But, yes, I agree, the postal services are not reponsible for
>> the contents of what they carry and that same principle should be
>> extended to ISPs.
>
> ISPs have always claimed 'common carrier' status and declined any
> responsibility for the actions of their users, which in the days of
> dial-up ISPs hosting small websites, mail lists and USENET for their users
> was sensible. What is going on now is that this is being challenged by cases
> being brought against the big social media companies. As I see it their
> trouble is going to be that they are *already* filtering and blocking
> people and imposing conditions on content after the content has already
> been published.

If I were Facebook or Google, I would be secretly delighted by such
responsibilities: it must be hard for a small actor today to afford
the censorship, either software filters or human censors.

If Usenet somehow became more popular and useful again, someone would
come along and crush it.

/Jorgen

--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397753 is a reply to message #397752] Wed, 12 August 2020 11:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
faux_dameron is currently offline  faux_dameron
Messages: 43
Registered: May 2020
Karma: 0
Member
On 12 Aug 2020 15:26:32 GMT, Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> If Usenet somehow became more popular and useful again, someone would
> come along and crush it.

They could take the big backbone servers offline whose entire business
model is providing a way to download pirated material and calling it
Usenet. They could possibly even find everyone that hosts smaller text-
only servers though that would be pretty difficult.

When you read about the early days, Usenet at its true core was always
about discussion. All you need are 2 or more servers peering and talking
NNTP to each other and you have a new Usenet.

__
JE
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #397756 is a reply to message #397752] Wed, 12 August 2020 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 12 Aug 2020 15:26:32 GMT
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> wrote:

> If Usenet somehow became more popular and useful again, someone would
> come along and crush it.

USENET was always hard to crush, as long as there are people
running servers and exchanging feeds USENET is running. I keep thinking it
would be a good thing to do to set one up here (text only of course).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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