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Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416401 is a reply to message #416398] Wed, 31 August 2022 22:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:

> According to ldpshddtti <uudbdjctko@qnqwvbhkwi.invalid>:
>> Is it possible to create a Tor-only text USENET that only peers with
>> other nodes within the Tor network and how "private" can that be for the
>> average person?
>
> It's technically straightforward to create a private group of servers
> that exchange netnews messages. You can use ToR if you want but NNTP
> over TLS is fairly private.
>

That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of creating a
private USENET network. It seems like a good way of hosting a discussion
board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it though is learning how
to setup a node from scratch.

> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know,
> all efforts to date have failed.

Yeah, I agree. It just has a higher bar to entry that most people would
not bother learning how to use it. I can already think of a few people
that I personally know that wouldn't touch this even with a ten foot
pole because it doesn't have a fancy UI.

With regards to getting people on board though, I've been thinking that
USENET might be able to carve a niche on the "low bandwidth,
decentralized and censorship-resistant" area of communication.

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416438 is a reply to message #416401] Thu, 01 September 2022 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Matthew Ernisse

On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of creating a
> private USENET network. It seems like a good way of hosting a discussion
> board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it though is learning how
> to setup a node from scratch.

While a little involved, the Debian packaging for INN2 seemed fairly
decent when I last looked at it. The FAQ[1] is pretty complete.

> Yeah, I agree. It just has a higher bar to entry that most people would
> not bother learning how to use it. I can already think of a few people
> that I personally know that wouldn't touch this even with a ten foot
> pole because it doesn't have a fancy UI.

There are plenty of options for user-friendly GUIs to read news. Thunderbird
for example still supports it, and there are even mobile clients[2].

> With regards to getting people on board though, I've been thinking that
> USENET might be able to carve a niche on the "low bandwidth,
> decentralized and censorship-resistant" area of communication.

I believe the tilde community has done something like that. You could
probably even ask them for some help / insights if you really wanted to
build your own, they seemed a friendly sort.

As an alternative to doing it yourself, you could encourage others to
participate on Usenet instead of forming a separate network. After all,
Usenet has several decades of history as being "low bandwidth, decentralized
and censorship-resistant".

1: https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/inn.html
2: https://mobile.clauss-net.de/NewsTap/

--
"The avalanche has started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote."
--Kosh
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416439 is a reply to message #416438] Thu, 01 September 2022 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> writes:

> On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
>> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of
>> creating a private USENET network. It seems like a good way of
>> hosting a discussion board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it
>> though is learning how to setup a node from scratch.
>
> While a little involved, the Debian packaging for INN2 seemed fairly
> decent when I last looked at it. The FAQ[1] is pretty complete.
>

Thanks! I will look into this.

>> Yeah, I agree. It just has a higher bar to entry that most people
>> would not bother learning how to use it. I can already think of a few
>> people that I personally know that wouldn't touch this even with a
>> ten foot pole because it doesn't have a fancy UI.
>
> There are plenty of options for user-friendly GUIs to read news.
> Thunderbird for example still supports it, and there are even mobile
> clients[2].
>

Yeah, Thunderbird is a good option. What I was thinking about though
were those "modern apps" that a lot of startups are using today. A
client with that "sleek and modern UI" might just get the attention of
the casual user. For me, I'm alright with my gnus + leafnode setup since
it gives me the right power-usability ratio for my USENET needs.

This is the first time that I've read about a mobile usenet
client. Sadly, NewsTap seems to be iOS only. But from the screenshots,
it looks nifty. I also saw an Android newsreader while I was perusing
the interwebs. It might interesting to someone looking for a mobile
client:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.n ewsgroup

I was looking at the pictures in that app and I'm surprised that it's
being developed by someone in Hong Kong. I didn't know that USENET is a
thing there. I believe I saw some articles years ago that people still
use USENET in Taiwan for general discussions but I can't seem to find
that anymore.

>> With regards to getting people on board though, I've been thinking
>> that USENET might be able to carve a niche on the "low bandwidth,
>> decentralized and censorship-resistant" area of communication.
>
> I believe the tilde community has done something like that. You could
> probably even ask them for some help / insights if you really wanted
> to build your own, they seemed a friendly sort.
>
> As an alternative to doing it yourself, you could encourage others to
> participate on Usenet instead of forming a separate network. After
> all, Usenet has several decades of history as being "low bandwidth,
> decentralized and censorship-resistant".
>

That's fair. I've been getting a few people into USENET over the past
months but I think this medium really does attract a certain kind of
internet user. Those who are interested in doing longform conversations
in an email-esque manner will certainly be more inclined to use USENET.

Sadly, that kind of internet user is at best a small minority in a
population.

> 1: https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/faqs/inn.html
> 2: https://mobile.clauss-net.de/NewsTap/

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416441 is a reply to message #416439] Thu, 01 September 2022 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
> Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
>>> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of
>>> creating a private USENET network. It seems like a good way of
>>> hosting a discussion board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it
>>> though is learning how to setup a node from scratch.
>>
>> While a little involved, the Debian packaging for INN2 seemed fairly
>> decent when I last looked at it. The FAQ[1] is pretty complete.
>>
>
> Thanks! I will look into this.
>
>>> Yeah, I agree. It just has a higher bar to entry that most people
>>> would not bother learning how to use it. I can already think of a few
>>> people that I personally know that wouldn't touch this even with a
>>> ten foot pole because it doesn't have a fancy UI.
>>
>> There are plenty of options for user-friendly GUIs to read news.
>> Thunderbird for example still supports it, and there are even mobile
>> clients[2].
>>
>
> Yeah, Thunderbird is a good option. What I was thinking about though
> were those "modern apps" that a lot of startups are using today. A
> client with that "sleek and modern UI" might just get the attention of
> the casual user. For me, I'm alright with my gnus + leafnode setup since
> it gives me the right power-usability ratio for my USENET needs.
>
> This is the first time that I've read about a mobile usenet
> client. Sadly, NewsTap seems to be iOS only. But from the screenshots,
> it looks nifty.

I use NewsTap. I’m quite happy with it.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416447 is a reply to message #416439] Fri, 02 September 2022 05:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
Messages: 719
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 00:47:15 +0800
5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:

> Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
>>> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of
>>> creating a private USENET network. It seems like a good way of
>>> hosting a discussion board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it
[]
>
> This is the first time that I've read about a mobile usenet
> client. Sadly, NewsTap seems to be iOS only. But from the screenshots,
> it looks nifty. I also saw an Android newsreader while I was perusing
> the interwebs. It might interesting to someone looking for a mobile
> client:
>
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.n ewsgroup
>
> I was looking at the pictures in that app and I'm surprised that it's
> being developed by someone in Hong Kong. I didn't know that USENET is a
> thing there. I believe I saw some articles years ago that people still
> use USENET in Taiwan for general discussions but I can't seem to find
> that anymore.

It's a decade old (at least) and is flakey, from what I've heard other say.

>
[]
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416448 is a reply to message #416447] Fri, 02 September 2022 06:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> writes:

> On Fri, 02 Sep 2022 00:47:15 +0800
> 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
>>>> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of
>>>> creating a private USENET network. It seems like a good way of
>>>> hosting a discussion board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it
> []
>>
>> This is the first time that I've read about a mobile usenet
>> client. Sadly, NewsTap seems to be iOS only. But from the screenshots,
>> it looks nifty. I also saw an Android newsreader while I was perusing
>> the interwebs. It might interesting to someone looking for a mobile
>> client:
>>
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.piaohong.n ewsgroup
>>
>> I was looking at the pictures in that app and I'm surprised that it's
>> being developed by someone in Hong Kong. I didn't know that USENET is a
>> thing there. I believe I saw some articles years ago that people still
>> use USENET in Taiwan for general discussions but I can't seem to find
>> that anymore.
>
> It's a decade old (at least) and is flakey, from what I've heard other say.
>

That's unfortunate.

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416457 is a reply to message #397554] Fri, 02 September 2022 18:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 00:48:55 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>
>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know, all
>>>> efforts to date have failed.
>>>
>>> Implement a bidirectional link to arsebook - but that might have
>>> undesirable results.
>>
>> I think you will find that anyone who wants to use Facebook will use Facebook.
>
> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025. Then
> people might look for something else (not so social).
>
> I mean, who uses Myspace today anymore? ;-)

Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416461 is a reply to message #397554] Fri, 02 September 2022 21:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: lunchboxhero

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025.

This is interesting, do you remember where you’ve seen this?

--
Gemini://sdf.org/lunchboxhero/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416462 is a reply to message #416441] Fri, 02 September 2022 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: lunchboxhero

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
>> Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Sep 2022 10:46:08 +0800, 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD wrote:
>>>> That's interesting. It made me think of some creative ways of
>>>> creating a private USENET network. It seems like a good way of
>>>> hosting a discussion board without any HTTP. My biggest gripe with it
>>>> though is learning how to setup a node from scratch.
>>>
>>> While a little involved, the Debian packaging for INN2 seemed fairly
>>> decent when I last looked at it. The FAQ[1] is pretty complete.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks! I will look into this.
>>
>>>> Yeah, I agree. It just has a higher bar to entry that most people
>>>> would not bother learning how to use it. I can already think of a few
>>>> people that I personally know that wouldn't touch this even with a
>>>> ten foot pole because it doesn't have a fancy UI.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of options for user-friendly GUIs to read news.
>>> Thunderbird for example still supports it, and there are even mobile
>>> clients[2].
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, Thunderbird is a good option. What I was thinking about though
>> were those "modern apps" that a lot of startups are using today. A
>> client with that "sleek and modern UI" might just get the attention of
>> the casual user. For me, I'm alright with my gnus + leafnode setup since
>> it gives me the right power-usability ratio for my USENET needs.
>>
>> This is the first time that I've read about a mobile usenet
>> client. Sadly, NewsTap seems to be iOS only. But from the screenshots,
>> it looks nifty.
>
> I use NewsTap. I’m quite happy with it.
>

Same here. I did not grow up using Usenet, and NewsTap feels very natural.

--
Gemini://sdf.org/lunchboxhero/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416471 is a reply to message #416461] Sat, 03 September 2022 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1456
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sat, 3 Sep 2022 01:38:52 -0000 (UTC), lunchboxhero wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>
>> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025.
>
> This is interesting, do you remember where you’ve seen this?

Yes, in a video Explaining The Future
<https://www.youtube.com/c/ExplainingTheFuture/videos> (chap from the
UK), but I cannot remember which of these (just pre-watched some but
couldn't find it, sorry). Probably from around 2018.

It was about the development of computers since the 1980s and a
prediction of the future. The 80s saw personalized computing to reach the
mainstream, the 90s networking with emerging internet access, the 00s was
all about internet and e-commerce, 10s about social platforms (and
predicted to have fizzled out by 2025). Prediction for the future then
went into computer implants and cybernetics.

He wrote books in the 80s and 90s where he predicted later decades, and
usually hit the nail.

F'up2 afc.
--
Andreas
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416472 is a reply to message #397554] Sat, 03 September 2022 17:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: ant

In alt.folklore.computers Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:25:06 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 00:48:55 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>>> > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know, all
>>>> >> efforts to date have failed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Implement a bidirectional link to arsebook - but that might have
>>>> > undesirable results.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find that anyone who wants to use Facebook will use Facebook.
>>>
>>> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025. Then
>>> people might look for something else (not so social).
>>>
>>> I mean, who uses Myspace today anymore? ;-)
>>
>> Apparently Facebook is now passe??? among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
>> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.

> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
> obsolete.

I thought TikTok was the new thing.
--
Bugs (mosquitoes & softwares like W10's non-launching Edge v105 2 go loco almost all day), leaks, aches, allergies, spammers, very hot weather, etc. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416473 is a reply to message #416457] Sat, 03 September 2022 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rich Alderson is currently offline  Rich Alderson
Messages: 489
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.

That ship sailed almost 10 years ago.

--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416477 is a reply to message #416473] Sun, 04 September 2022 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Johnny Billquist

On 2022-09-04 02:38, Rich Alderson wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
>> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.
>
> That ship sailed almost 10 years ago.

Definitely true. My kids (upper teens) have never been on facebook, and
consider it something that only grandma uses. TikTok, Instagram,
Twitter, who knows what else... That's what kids use these days.
*Noone* uses FB if they are under 20.

Johnny
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416730 is a reply to message #397554] Wed, 21 September 2022 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Ray

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:25:06 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 00:48:55 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>>> > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know, all
>>>> >> efforts to date have failed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Implement a bidirectional link to arsebook - but that might have
>>>> > undesirable results.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find that anyone who wants to use Facebook will use Facebook.
>>>
>>> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025. Then
>>> people might look for something else (not so social).
>>>
>>> I mean, who uses Myspace today anymore? ;-)
>>
>> Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
>> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.
>
> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
> obsolete.

Excuse me jumping in:

Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}

RayH (the other one)

Carry on nothing to see here.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416731 is a reply to message #416730] Wed, 21 September 2022 10:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Ray <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

>> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>> obsolete.
>
> Excuse me jumping in:
>
> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}

There will always be email. Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416736 is a reply to message #416731] Wed, 21 September 2022 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Ray <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>>> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>> obsolete.
>>
>> Excuse me jumping in:
>>
>> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>
> There will always be email. Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>

Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
emojis???? Ewww.”

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416739 is a reply to message #416736] Wed, 21 September 2022 16:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2022-09-21, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> Ray <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>>> obsolete.
>>>
>>> Excuse me jumping in:
>>>
>>> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>>> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>>
>> There will always be email. Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>
> Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
> emojis???? Ewww.”

I once had an epiphany in a bookstore when I found myself standing next to
a rack of children's books. They were slim volumes with big fonts, bright
colours, and short words. I realized they were the antithesis of "grown-up"
books, which are thick volumes printed in black and white with few or no
pictures. "Grown-up" books aren't nearly as entertaining as kids' books
(except, perhaps, for those on the fiction shelf) - but they're full of
informative text that enables you to get things done.

I then headed over to the computer section, where I selected my first Linux
book - complete with a CD for Slackware 3.5.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416742 is a reply to message #416397] Wed, 21 September 2022 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: bl4ckb0x

On Aug 31, 2022, ldpshddtti wrote
(in article <87v8q8vqwc.fsf@acddukoc.gyoa>):

> Is it possible to create a Tor-only text USENET that only peers with
> other nodes within the Tor network and how "private" can that be for the
> average person?

Technically possible, for sure; with the recent big push for censorship
on the web there may even be an audience for it, but TOR has a DARKSIDE.
If you don't moderate you'll be overrun with CSAM which will drive
anyone with a soul away.

A popular web-forum dedicated to discussing "lolcows" was recently
bullied offline. The administrator has found it nearly impossible to
maintain a presence online. You may be able to capture that community
and other ones like it, but again, anyone with a need to use TOR usually
brings a lot of unsavoryness with them.

I'd be game to setup INN on a hidden service and peer with you just to
learn how to, but we'd have to have a serious plan for moderation before
opening it up to anyone.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416744 is a reply to message #416742] Thu, 22 September 2022 03:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2022-09-22, bl4ckb0x <bl4ckb0x@no.email> wrote:
> On Aug 31, 2022, ldpshddtti wrote
> (in article <87v8q8vqwc.fsf@acddukoc.gyoa>):
>
>> Is it possible to create a Tor-only text USENET that only peers with
>> other nodes within the Tor network and how "private" can that be for the
>> average person?
>
> Technically possible, for sure; with the recent big push for censorship
> on the web there may even be an audience for it, but TOR has a DARKSIDE.
> If you don't moderate you'll be overrun with CSAM which will drive
> anyone with a soul away.
>
> A popular web-forum dedicated to discussing "lolcows" was recently
> bullied offline. The administrator has found it nearly impossible to
> maintain a presence online. You may be able to capture that community
> and other ones like it, but again, anyone with a need to use TOR usually
> brings a lot of unsavoryness with them.

agreed. Anyway, like any crypto thing, its probably backdoored to hell.
The old sugar trap.
>
> I'd be game to setup INN on a hidden service and peer with you just to
> learn how to, but we'd have to have a serious plan for moderation before
> opening it up to anyone.
>


--
greymausg@mail.org

Fe,Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416746 is a reply to message #397554] Thu, 22 September 2022 07:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2022-09-22 06:26, Dave Garland wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 11:53 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Ray  <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> > Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>>> > obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> Excuse me jumping in:
>>>>
>>>> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>>>> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>>>
>>> There will always be email.  Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>>>
>>
>> Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
>> emojis???? Ewww.”
>
> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.

Even Usenet. They are just letters in unicode.


U+1F60x 😀 😁 😂 😃 😄 😅 😆 😇 😈 😉 😊 😋 😌 😍 😎 😏
U+1F61x 😐 😑 😒 😓 😔 😕 😖 😗 😘 😙 😚 😛 😜 😝 😞 😟
U+1F62x 😠 😡 😢 😣 😤 😥 😦 😧 😨 😩 😪 😫 😬 😭 😮 😯
U+1F63x 😰 😱 😲 😳 😴 😵 😶 😷 😸 😹 😺 😻 😼 😽 😾 😿
U+1F64x 🙀 🙁 🙂 🙃 🙄 🙅 🙆 🙇 🙈 🙉 🙊 🙋 🙌 🙍 🙎 🙏
U+1F68x 🚀 🚁 🚂 🚃 🚄 🚅 🚆 🚇 🚈 🚉 🚊 🚋 🚌 🚍 🚎 🚏
U+1F69x 🚐 🚑 🚒 🚓 🚔 🚕 🚖 🚗 🚘 🚙 🚚 🚛 🚜 🚝 🚞 🚟
U+1F6Ax 🚠 🚡 🚢 🚣 🚤 🚥 🚦 🚧 🚨 🚩 🚪 🚫 🚬 🚭 🚮 🚯
U+1F6Bx 🚰 🚱 🚲 🚳 🚴 🚵 🚶 🚷 🚸 🚹 🚺 🚻 🚼 🚽 🚾 🚿

(pasted from https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji)

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416747 is a reply to message #397554] Thu, 22 September 2022 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 9/21/2022 11:53 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Ray <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> > Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>>> > obsolete.
>>>>
>>>> Excuse me jumping in:
>>>>
>>>> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>>>> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>>>
>>> There will always be email. Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>>>
>>
>> Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
>> emojis???? Ewww.”
>
> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.
>

There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
young people.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416748 is a reply to message #416746] Thu, 22 September 2022 08:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-09-22 06:26, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 11:53 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Ray  <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> >> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>>> >> obsolete.
>>>> >
>>>> > Excuse me jumping in:
>>>> >
>>>> > Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>>>> > just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>>>>
>>>> There will always be email.  Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
>>> emojis???? Ewww.”
>>
>> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
>> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
>> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.
>
> Even Usenet. They are just letters in unicode.
>
>
> U+1F60x 😀 😁 😂 😃 😄 😅 😆 😇 😈 😉 😊 😋 😌 😍 😎 😏
> U+1F61x 😐 😑 😒 😓 😔 😕 😖 😗 😘 😙 😚 😛 😜 😝 😞 😟
> U+1F62x 😠 😡 😢 😣 😤 😥 😦 😧 😨 😩 😪 😫 😬 😭 😮 😯
> U+1F63x 😰 😱 😲 😳 😴 😵 😶 😷 😸 😹 😺 😻 😼 😽 😾 😿
> U+1F64x 🙀 🙁 🙂 🙃 🙄 🙅 🙆 🙇 🙈 🙉 🙊 🙋 🙌 🙍 🙎 🙏
> U+1F68x 🚀 🚁 🚂 🚃 🚄 🚅 🚆 🚇 🚈 🚉 🚊 🚋 🚌 🚍 🚎 🚏
> U+1F69x 🚐 🚑 🚒 🚓 🚔 🚕 🚖 🚗 🚘 🚙 🚚 🚛 🚜 🚝 🚞 🚟
> U+1F6Ax 🚠 🚡 🚢 🚣 🚤 🚥 🚦 🚧 🚨 🚩 🚪 🚫 🚬 🚭 🚮 🚯
> U+1F6Bx 🚰 🚱 🚲 🚳 🚴 🚵 🚶 🚷 🚸 🚹 🚺 🚻 🚼 🚽 🚾 🚿
>
> (pasted from https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji)
>

Anyone who starts using them here will be quickly killfiled.

--
Pete
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416749 is a reply to message #416747] Thu, 22 September 2022 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:

> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
> young people.

Do you have a reference?

It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416752 is a reply to message #416747] Thu, 22 September 2022 09:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 05:38:28 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
> young people.

There were probably cave paintings depicting the problem of
yooferterday.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416753 is a reply to message #416746] Thu, 22 September 2022 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> writes:
> On 2022-09-22 06:26, Dave Garland wrote:
>> On 9/21/2022 11:53 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Ray  <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>>>> > Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>>>>
>>>> >> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>>> >> obsolete.
>>>> >
>>>> > Excuse me jumping in:
>>>> >
>>>> > Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>>>> > just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>>>>
>>>> There will always be email.  Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Email??? That’s so 20th century. “You mean I have to type words???? No
>>> emojis???? Ewww.”
>>
>> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
>> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
>> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.
>
> Even Usenet. They are just letters in unicode.
>
>
> U+1F60x 😀 😁 😂 😃 😄 😅 😆 😇 😈 😉 😊 😋 😌 😍 😎 😏
> U+1F61x 😐 😑 😒 😓 😔 😕 😖 😗 😘 😙 😚 😛 😜 😝 😞 😟
> U+1F62x 😠 😡 😢 😣 😤 😥 😦 😧 😨 😩 😪 😫 😬 😭 😮 😯
> U+1F63x 😰 😱 😲 😳 😴 😵 😶 😷 😸 😹 😺 😻 😼 😽 😾 😿
> U+1F64x 🙀 🙁 🙂 🙃 🙄 🙅 🙆 🙇 🙈 🙉 🙊 🙋 🙌 🙍 🙎 🙏
> U+1F68x 🚀 🚁 🚂 🚃 🚄 🚅 🚆 🚇 🚈 🚉 🚊 🚋 🚌 🚍 🚎 🚏
> U+1F69x 🚐 🚑 🚒 🚓 🚔 🚕 🚖 🚗 🚘 🚙 🚚 🚛 🚜 🚝 🚞 🚟
> U+1F6Ax 🚠 🚡 🚢 🚣 🚤 🚥 🚦 🚧 🚨 🚩 🚪 🚫 🚬 🚭 🚮 🚯
> U+1F6Bx 🚰 🚱 🚲 🚳 🚴 🚵 🚶 🚷 🚸 🚹 🚺 🚻 🚼 🚽 🚾 🚿
>
> (pasted from https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji)


:-)
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416758 is a reply to message #416746] Thu, 22 September 2022 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2022-09-22, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-09-22 06:26, Dave Garland wrote:
>
>> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
>> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
>> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.
>
> Even Usenet. They are just letters in unicode.
>
> U+1F60x 😀 😁 😂 😃 😄 😅 😆 😇 😈 😉 😊 😋 😌 😍 😎 😏
> U+1F61x 😐 😑 😒 😓 😔 😕 😖 😗 😘 😙 😚 😛 😜 😝 😞 😟
> U+1F62x 😠 😡 😢 😣 😤 😥 😦 😧 😨 😩 😪 😫 😬 😭 😮 😯
> U+1F63x 😰 😱 😲 😳 😴 😵 😶 😷 😸 😹 😺 😻 😼 😽 😾 😿
> U+1F64x 🙀 🙁 🙂 🙃 🙄 🙅 🙆 🙇 🙈 🙉 🙊 🙋 🙌 🙍 🙎 🙏
> U+1F68x 🚀 🚁 🚂 🚃 🚄 🚅 🚆 🚇 🚈 🚉 🚊 🚋 🚌 🚍 🚎 🚏
> U+1F69x 🚐 🚑 🚒 🚓 🚔 🚕 🚖 🚗 🚘 🚙 🚚 🚛 🚜 🚝 🚞 🚟
> U+1F6Ax 🚠 🚡 🚢 🚣 🚤 🚥 🚦 🚧 🚨 🚩 🚪 🚫 🚬 🚭 🚮 🚯
> U+1F6Bx 🚰 🚱 🚲 🚳 🚴 🚵 🚶 🚷 🚸 🚹 🚺 🚻 🚼 🚽 🚾 🚿
>
> (pasted from https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji)

Wow. Even my copy of slrn displays them all.

I see them in Thunderbird from time to time. Not too often,
fortunately, since I tend to not exchange e-mail with the kind
of people who use them.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416759 is a reply to message #416758] Thu, 22 September 2022 14:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2022-09-22 19:30, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-09-22, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-22 06:26, Dave Garland wrote:
>>
>>> I think you'll find that some email programs can do emojis. At this
>>> point, maybe most of them, if they're web-based. Today's youth, you
>>> know, they've been going to the dogs since Roman times.
>>
>> Even Usenet. They are just letters in unicode.
>>
>> U+1F60x 😀 😁 😂 😃 😄 😅 😆 😇 😈 😉 😊 😋 😌 😍 😎 😏
...
>> (pasted from https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji)
>
> Wow. Even my copy of slrn displays them all.

Yes, that's because the terminal was been improved to handle unicode,
then the text software tools. Even tools that can not display it can
handle it somewhat, as long as they don't do alterations. Not all tools
can edit them.

>
> I see them in Thunderbird from time to time. Not too often,
> fortunately, since I tend to not exchange e-mail with the kind
> of people who use them.

I have seen some used in the subject header, specially in commercial mail.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416760 is a reply to message #416749] Thu, 22 September 2022 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>
>> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>> young people.
>
> Do you have a reference?
>
> It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.


Google finds it :-D

< https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>


--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416761 is a reply to message #416760] Thu, 22 September 2022 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: jtmpreno

On 9/22/2022 11:24 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>>> young people.
>>
>> Do you have a reference?
>>
>> It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
>
>
> Google finds it :-D
>
> < https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>
>
>
>

Here is an example of a pre-modern human complaining about young people:

SMACK!!!
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416762 is a reply to message #416760] Thu, 22 September 2022 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
> On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>>
>>> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>>> young people.
>>
>> Do you have a reference?
>>
>> It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
>
>
> Google finds it :-D
>
> < https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>

Actually, it does not, at least not for me.

Can you provide a pointer to what it is supposed to have found?
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416763 is a reply to message #416762] Thu, 22 September 2022 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2022-09-22 21:01, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>> On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>>>
>>>> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>>>> young people.
>>>
>>> Do you have a reference?
>>>
>>> It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
>>
>>
>> Google finds it :-D
>>
>> < https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>
>
> Actually, it does not, at least not for me.
>
> Can you provide a pointer to what it is supposed to have found?


The oldest known complaint letter - Dr Karl - ABC
https://www.abc.net.au › 2015/03/24
Traducir esta página
24 mar 2015 — Our complaint letter comes from the Middle Bronze Age —
and right in the middle of this Middle Bronze Age was the First
Babylonian Dynasty, ...
Falta(n): young ‎| Debe incluir lo siguiente: young

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/24/4200708.h tm


What is the oldest authentic example of people complaining ...
https://history.stackexchange.com › ...
Traducir esta página
“[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled
by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. ... They
think they know ...
5 respuestas
· 27 votos: 600 - 300 BC The counts of the indictment are luxury,
bad manners, contempt for authority, ...

https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th e-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-moder n-times-an



6000 year old ancient Egyptian quote about kids being brats?
https://www.quora.com › Is-there-really-a-6000-year-ol...
There might be a more recent Egyptian inscription or papyrus that
complains about badly behaved young people, though. The 'Chaldean' quote
is also too old ...
2 respuestas
· 17 votos: If the 'Egyptian inscription' cited were 6,000 years
old, it would date from 4,000 BC. There ...

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-really-a-6000-year-old-ancien t-Egyptian-quote-about-kids-being-brats


The third entry is very interesting ;-)

It seems to talk about this one:
< https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/17/ephebiphob ia-young-people-mosquito>

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416765 is a reply to message #416763] Fri, 23 September 2022 00:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
> On 2022-09-22 21:01, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>>> On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>>>>
>>>> > There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>>>> > young people.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a reference?
>>>>
>>>> It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
>>>
>>>
>>> Google finds it :-D
>>>
>>> < https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>
>>
>> Actually, it does not, at least not for me.
>>
>> Can you provide a pointer to what it is supposed to have found?
>
>
> The oldest known complaint letter - Dr Karl - ABC
> https://www.abc.net.au › 2015/03/24
> Traducir esta página
> 24 mar 2015 — Our complaint letter comes from the Middle Bronze Age —
> and right in the middle of this Middle Bronze Age was the First
> Babylonian Dynasty, ...
> Falta(n): young ‎| Debe incluir lo siguiente: young

> https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/24/4200708.h tm

That's Ea-nasir (whcih I quotd upstream).

> What is the oldest authentic example of people complaining ...
> https://history.stackexchange.com › ...
> Traducir esta página
> “[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled
> by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. ... They
> think they know ...
> 5 respuestas
> · 27 votos: 600 - 300 BC The counts of the indictment are luxury,
> bad manners, contempt for authority, ...
>
> https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th e-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-moder n-times-an

So, certainly BC, but far from 6000 years ago, more like 2600.
>
>
>
> 6000 year old ancient Egyptian quote about kids being brats?
> https://www.quora.com › Is-there-really-a-6000-year-ol...
> There might be a more recent Egyptian inscription or papyrus that
> complains about badly behaved young people, though. The 'Chaldean' quote
> is also too old ...
> 2 respuestas
> · 17 votos: If the 'Egyptian inscription' cited were 6,000 years
> old, it would date from 4,000 BC. There ...
>
> https://www.quora.com/Is-there-really-a-6000-year-old-ancien t-Egyptian-quote-about-kids-being-brats
>
>
> The third entry is very interesting ;-)
>
> It seems to talk about this one:
> < https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/17/ephebiphob ia-young-people-mosquito>

Which has been debunked. It says "6000 years old", which is
clearly bogus, Egyptian writing had not been developed then.
"First Dynasty" is also incorrect, the first full sentence found
(a seal impression) is from the Second Dynasty.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs#Origin .
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416767 is a reply to message #397554] Fri, 23 September 2022 01:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:

> On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:25:06 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 00:48:55 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>>> > On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know, all
>>>> >> efforts to date have failed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Implement a bidirectional link to arsebook - but that might have
>>>> > undesirable results.
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find that anyone who wants to use Facebook will use Facebook.
>>>
>>> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025. Then
>>> people might look for something else (not so social).
>>>
>>> I mean, who uses Myspace today anymore? ;-)
>>
>> Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
>> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.
>
> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
> obsolete.

I think social media websites in the past few years have been slowly
moving towards a more streamlined and "viral-focused" platforms. I mean,
just look at tiktok and how it's just an endless stream of autoplaying
videos.

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416768 is a reply to message #416731] Fri, 23 September 2022 01:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:

> Ray <ray@rays-dell.null> writes:
>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>>> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>>> obsolete.
>>
>> Excuse me jumping in:
>>
>> Redundant Faceache? I hope not. My 3 year old Great Granddaughter has
>> just started messaging me, under the watchful eyes of her mum. :}
>
> There will always be email. Don't get a 3yo hooked on social media.

I agree. It's better to not expose your children to social media at
all. It's just not worth it and you don't even know what they're seeing
there. For example, Twitter has a lot of uncensored pornographic content
that would show up even on new accounts as "Featured Content."

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416769 is a reply to message #416765] Fri, 23 September 2022 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2022-09-23 06:39, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>> On 2022-09-22 21:01, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> schrieb:
>>>> On 2022-09-22 15:04, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>> > Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> schrieb:
>>>> >
>>>> >> There’s a letter from an Egyptian of the First Dynasty complaining about
>>>> >> young people.
>>>> >
>>>> > Do you have a reference?
>>>> >
>>>> > It should be at least as well-known as Nanni's complaint to Ea-nasir.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Google finds it :-D
>>>>
>>>> < https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-e&q=lette r+from+an+Egyptian+of+the+First+Dynasty+complaining+about+yo ung+people.>
>>>
>>> Actually, it does not, at least not for me.
>>>
>>> Can you provide a pointer to what it is supposed to have found?
>>
>>
>> The oldest known complaint letter - Dr Karl - ABC
>> https://www.abc.net.au › 2015/03/24
>> Traducir esta página
>> 24 mar 2015 — Our complaint letter comes from the Middle Bronze Age —
>> and right in the middle of this Middle Bronze Age was the First
>> Babylonian Dynasty, ...
>> Falta(n): young ‎| Debe incluir lo siguiente: young
>
>> https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/24/4200708.h tm
>
> That's Ea-nasir (whcih I quotd upstream).
>
>> What is the oldest authentic example of people complaining ...
>> https://history.stackexchange.com › ...
>> Traducir esta página
>> “[Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled
>> by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances. ... They
>> think they know ...
>> 5 respuestas
>> · 27 votos: 600 - 300 BC The counts of the indictment are luxury,
>> bad manners, contempt for authority, ...
>>
>> https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/28169/what-is-th e-oldest-authentic-example-of-people-complaining-about-moder n-times-an
>
> So, certainly BC, but far from 6000 years ago, more like 2600.
>>
>>
>>
>> 6000 year old ancient Egyptian quote about kids being brats?
>> https://www.quora.com › Is-there-really-a-6000-year-ol...
>> There might be a more recent Egyptian inscription or papyrus that
>> complains about badly behaved young people, though. The 'Chaldean' quote
>> is also too old ...
>> 2 respuestas
>> · 17 votos: If the 'Egyptian inscription' cited were 6,000 years
>> old, it would date from 4,000 BC. There ...
>>
>> https://www.quora.com/Is-there-really-a-6000-year-old-ancien t-Egyptian-quote-about-kids-being-brats
>>
>>
>> The third entry is very interesting ;-)
>>
>> It seems to talk about this one:
>> < https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/mar/17/ephebiphob ia-young-people-mosquito>
>
> Which has been debunked.

Which is what the Quora link says, precisely ;-)

> It says "6000 years old", which is
> clearly bogus, Egyptian writing had not been developed then.
> "First Dynasty" is also incorrect, the first full sentence found
> (a seal impression) is from the Second Dynasty.
>
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_hieroglyphs#Origin .

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416770 is a reply to message #416768] Fri, 23 September 2022 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 13:56:34 +0800
5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:

> I agree. It's better to not expose your children to social media at

Certainly not at a young age but ...

> all. It's just not worth it and you don't even know what they're seeing

Also don't hide it from them when they start to look around and
create the allure of forbidden fruit - I got into all sorts of questionable
places following that allure to find out about things my parents tried to
pretend didn't exist.

> there. For example, Twitter has a lot of uncensored pornographic content
> that would show up even on new accounts as "Featured Content."

At an appropriate age (not 3 unless they're incredibly precocious
in which case get professional help you'll need it before they're 6) show
it to them and discuss it - they're going to find it anyway (and probably
already have), it's better talked about openly with you than in the school
playground or behind the bikesheds.

Many years ago while tourist watching in Amsterdam's RLD (the
tourists are way more entertaining than the attractions) I saw a father
taking his son (about ten or eleven) for a tour and talking about what was
going on and why (I caught a bit about men with no wives and away from
home wanting company), they stopped for a while outside the window display
of a sex shop which was probably an interesting conversation.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416771 is a reply to message #416770] Fri, 23 September 2022 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2022-09-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 13:56:34 +0800
> 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
>
> home wanting company), they stopped for a while outside the window display
> of a sex shop which was probably an interesting conversation.
>

I would regard bringing children to those places as being at least
unwise. One couple took away a child's smartphone and sent him to his
room, and found him later hanging. It has to be handled carefully.

--
greymausg@mail.org

Fe,Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416772 is a reply to message #416771] Fri, 23 September 2022 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 23 Sep 2022 13:27:01 GMT
maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> On 2022-09-23, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 13:56:34 +0800
>> 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> home wanting company), they stopped for a while outside the window
>> display of a sex shop which was probably an interesting conversation.
>>
>
> I would regard bringing children to those places as being at least
> unwise.

When they start asking questions and are old enough to comprehend
the answers honesty and completeness are the best policies IMHO.

> One couple took away a child's smartphone and sent him to his
> room, and found him later hanging. It has to be handled carefully.

Yep that's the kind of thing that happens when you exert control
without understanding. Tragic.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416773 is a reply to message #416770] Fri, 23 September 2022 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:

> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 13:56:34 +0800
> 5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I agree. It's better to not expose your children to social media at
>
> Certainly not at a young age but ...
>
>> all. It's just not worth it and you don't even know what they're seeing
>
> Also don't hide it from them when they start to look around and
> create the allure of forbidden fruit - I got into all sorts of questionable
> places following that allure to find out about things my parents tried to
> pretend didn't exist.
>

I agree. I think that a good way to deter people from going deep with
these things is to demystify them. Alcohol and tobacco, for example, are
things that are easy to deter kids from if you've talked to them about
it. But it's always a careful balance when you actually introduce these
kinds of things. I think creating an open air in the home where your
kids can ask about things they're curious about is a good thing.

>> there. For example, Twitter has a lot of uncensored pornographic content
>> that would show up even on new accounts as "Featured Content."
>
> At an appropriate age (not 3 unless they're incredibly precocious
> in which case get professional help you'll need it before they're 6) show
> it to them and discuss it - they're going to find it anyway (and probably
> already have), it's better talked about openly with you than in the school
> playground or behind the bikesheds.
>

I think it's better to let the kids ask you about it rather than
bringing it up on them out of the blue. It also really depends on their
age when they asked about it. I would explain sex differently to a 6-9
year old child than to a 13-15 year old kid, for example.

--
Pointless meanderings in a bleak and lonely world.
Re: Is the Eternal September over [message #416774 is a reply to message #416767] Fri, 23 September 2022 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
5GyYap52yQ1UGMWD <ehj46PkBWfBAng9C@VW28LtWn6wknpUMV.invalid> wrote:
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 2 Sep 2022 15:25:06 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>
>>> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2022 00:48:55 -0000 (UTC), John Levine wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>>> >> On Wed, 31 Aug 2022 16:50:07 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> >> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> The problem is finding people who want to use it. As far as we know, all
>>>> >>> efforts to date have failed.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Implement a bidirectional link to arsebook - but that might have
>>>> >> undesirable results.
>>>> >
>>>> > I think you will find that anyone who wants to use Facebook will use Facebook.
>>>>
>>>> Some say, that the social platform hype levels out around 2025. Then
>>>> people might look for something else (not so social).
>>>>
>>>> I mean, who uses Myspace today anymore? ;-)
>>>
>>> Apparently Facebook is now passe’ among the youngs. Now they want Instagram
>>> or something else, and leave FB to their grandparents.
>>
>> Already? I'd assumed FB has another two or three years before becoming
>> obsolete.
>
> I think social media websites in the past few years have been slowly
> moving towards a more streamlined and "viral-focused" platforms. I mean,
> just look at tiktok and how it's just an endless stream of autoplaying
> videos.
>

Instead of what it was before?

--
Pete
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