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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394028 is a reply to message #394024] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
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On 6/26/2017 12:10 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> > departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> > damage
>>>> > in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> > J.J.
>>>> > is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> > hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> > comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> > worse
>>>> > the show gets.
>>>>
>>>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>
>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>
>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>> badly does *that* bode?
>>
>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>
> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
> because we're making it all different!"
>
DING DING DING DING DING. By George, I think he's finally got it!

;)

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394029 is a reply to message #394008] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
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On 6/26/2017 10:52 AM, Ubiquitous wrote:
> droleary@2017usenet1.subsume.com wrote:
>> For your reference, records indicate that
>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>> Op 22-6-2017 om 20:47 schreef anim8rfsk:
>
>>>> I hate that they're getting well established Trek history wrong - again.
>>>> Is that racist?
>>>
>>> They did not refer to criticism concerning the timeline.
>>
>> Maybe, but maybe not. You can’t add new diversity to an established
>> franchise like Star Trek, especially via retcon, without addressing the
>> depictions of diversity in the existing story lines. Or without
>> representing *actual* population distributions in a society. Trek
>> *used* to smartly address current social issues via allegory. Everything
>> I read about this new show seems to indicate no such subtlety will exist.
>> It's hard to have high expectations for *any* show that is pushing an
>> agenda that has nothing to do with telling a great story.
>
> I don't think writers know how to be subtle any more.
>
Writers wouldn't know subtle if it bit them on the ass. :)

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394033 is a reply to message #394020] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
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On 6/26/2017 11:46 AM, Lance Corporal Hammer Schultz wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 20:03:25 +0200, Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>
>> Voyager had issues orbiting issues. The gender of Janeway was not part
>> of that. It was the writers. They failed.
>
> And after re-watching the series a couple of years ago, having been
> critical of it during its original airing, I will say that in
> retrospect it was not that terrible. It was still Trek. It had its
> really dumb moments and some insufferable characters, and the "Borg
> Chick" thing is more transparent than Scotty's aluminum, but in the
> end it was still Trek.
>
Just proves how low Star Dreck 2009 has set the bar.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394034 is a reply to message #394024] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ubiquitous is currently offline  Ubiquitous
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jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

>>>> > Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> > departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> > in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> > is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> > hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> > comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> > the show gets.
>>>>
>>>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>
>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>
>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>> badly does *that* bode?
>>
>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>
> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
> because we're making it all different!"

I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.


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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394035 is a reply to message #394014] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oiriqi$qk0$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 03:16 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimd05$n7l$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Doc O'Leary sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 11:21 AM:
>>>> >>>> Trek
>>>> >>>> *used* to smartly address current social issues via allegory.
>>>> >>>> Everything
>>>> >>>> I read about this new show seems to indicate no such subtlety will
>>>> >>>> exist.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Yep. Most writers -- especially the younger ones -- seem to prefer
>>>> >>> anvils these days.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Not only that, but there's this, as well:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> https://www.newsarama.com/35070-star-trek-discovery-to-explo re-space-ou
>>>> >>> ts
>>>> >>> id
>>>> >>> e-r
>>>> >>> oddenberry-s-box.html
>>>> >>> (or http://tinyurl.com/ycczjbym)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> From the start of the article:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> QUOTE
>>>> >>> Star Trek: Discovery will break the longstanding - but somewhat
>>>> >>> unspoken
>>>> >>> - "Roddenberry's Box" rule of the Star Trek universe - a rule laid out
>>>> >>> by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry which says that members of
>>>> >>> Starfleet cannot be shown in deep conflict with each other or
>>>> >>> portrayed
>>>> >>> in too negative a light.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> That rule - that Starfleet members must be ultimately upstanding - has
>>>> >>> been stretched a few times in the series' 50 year history, especially
>>>> >>> in
>>>> >>> recent films. But Discovery's showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen
>>>> >>> J.
>>>> >>> Berg say the show will explore conflict between members of Starfleet
>>>> >>> in
>>>> >>> more depth than ever before.
>>>> >>> END QUOTE
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> So in addition to a lack of subtlety, we can expect a lack of
>>>> >>> discipline
>>>> >>> and an overall attitude of "My opinion WILL be heard because my
>>>> >>> self-esteem matters and I have a right to be heard. Even though I'm
>>>> >>> just
>>>> >>> an ensign."
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I also like the "especially in recent films" bit in that quote, which
>>>> >>> is
>>>> >>> a kind way of pointing out one of the many ways that Team Abrams has
>>>> >>> *already* damaged this franchise.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> racist
>>>> >
>>>> > Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> > departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> > in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> > is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> > hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> > comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> > the show gets.
>>>>
>>>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>
>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>
>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>> badly does *that* bode?
>>
>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>
> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>
> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?

They explained that. STD gets it wrong.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394036 is a reply to message #394021] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <59515945$0$799$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Op 26-6-2017 om 20:16 schreef Obveeus:
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 03:16 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimd05$n7l$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Doc O'Leary sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 11:21 AM:
>>>> >>>>> Trek
>>>> >>>>> *used* to smartly address current social issues via allegory.
>>>> >>>>> Everything
>>>> >>>>> I read about this new show seems to indicate no such subtlety will
>>>> >>>>> exist.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Yep. Most writers -- especially the younger ones -- seem to prefer
>>>> >>>> anvils these days.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Not only that, but there's this, as well:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> https://www.newsarama.com/35070-star-trek-discovery-to-explo re-space-o
>>>> >>>> uts
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> id
>>>> >>>> e-r
>>>> >>>> oddenberry-s-box.html
>>>> >>>> (or http://tinyurl.com/ycczjbym)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> From the start of the article:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> QUOTE
>>>> >>>> Star Trek: Discovery will break the longstanding - but somewhat
>>>> >>>> unspoken
>>>> >>>> - "Roddenberry's Box" rule of the Star Trek universe - a rule
>>>> >>>> laid out
>>>> >>>> by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry which says that members of
>>>> >>>> Starfleet cannot be shown in deep conflict with each other or
>>>> >>>> portrayed
>>>> >>>> in too negative a light.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> That rule - that Starfleet members must be ultimately upstanding
>>>> >>>> - has
>>>> >>>> been stretched a few times in the series' 50 year history,
>>>> >>>> especially in
>>>> >>>> recent films. But Discovery's showrunners Aaron Harberts and
>>>> >>>> Gretchen J.
>>>> >>>> Berg say the show will explore conflict between members of
>>>> >>>> Starfleet in
>>>> >>>> more depth than ever before.
>>>> >>>> END QUOTE
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So in addition to a lack of subtlety, we can expect a lack of
>>>> >>>> discipline
>>>> >>>> and an overall attitude of "My opinion WILL be heard because my
>>>> >>>> self-esteem matters and I have a right to be heard. Even though
>>>> >>>> I'm just
>>>> >>>> an ensign."
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I also like the "especially in recent films" bit in that quote,
>>>> >>>> which is
>>>> >>>> a kind way of pointing out one of the many ways that Team Abrams has
>>>> >>>> *already* damaged this franchise.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> racist
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >> damage
>>>> >> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >> J.J.
>>>> >> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >> worse
>>>> >> the show gets.
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>
>> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
>> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
>> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?
>
>
> Enterprise addressed that in the Augment arc.

Enterprise was a holonovel. :)

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394037 is a reply to message #394024] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oirlvu$6m5$1@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> > departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> > in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> > is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> > hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> > comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> > the show gets.
>>>>
>>>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>
>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>
>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>> badly does *that* bode?
>>
>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>
> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
> because we're making it all different!"

Racist

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394038 is a reply to message #394025] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
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On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>
> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
> ship or the newer one.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394039 is a reply to message #394026] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
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On 6/26/2017 3:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:

> You know, one of the differences in feel between TOS and both TNG and
> the 2009 re-boot is in how they address discipline and chain of command.
> TOS was written by people who had some idea of what the military was
> really like, many of them having served themselves. Yes, they bend
> things a bit for story purposes and the limits of filming a TV show, but
> their starting point was a working military. Characters stay at their
> posts.

This is simply not true. The show illogically (for any real military)
had the leader, Kirk, always beaming down into unknown conditions. Many
of the rest of the bridge crew illogically beamed down frequently as
well. Outside of Spock and Uhura, none of those people should/would
have ever had a reason to have been bopping down to new planets on a
whim in any realistic 'military' show.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394040 is a reply to message #394035] Mon, 26 June 2017 15:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
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On 6/26/2017 3:30 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oiriqi$qk0$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 03:16 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimd05$n7l$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Doc O'Leary sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 11:21 AM:
>>>> >>>>> Trek
>>>> >>>>> *used* to smartly address current social issues via allegory.
>>>> >>>>> Everything
>>>> >>>>> I read about this new show seems to indicate no such subtlety will
>>>> >>>>> exist.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Yep. Most writers -- especially the younger ones -- seem to prefer
>>>> >>>> anvils these days.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Not only that, but there's this, as well:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> https://www.newsarama.com/35070-star-trek-discovery-to-explo re-space-ou
>>>> >>>> ts
>>>> >>>> id
>>>> >>>> e-r
>>>> >>>> oddenberry-s-box.html
>>>> >>>> (or http://tinyurl.com/ycczjbym)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> From the start of the article:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> QUOTE
>>>> >>>> Star Trek: Discovery will break the longstanding - but somewhat
>>>> >>>> unspoken
>>>> >>>> - "Roddenberry's Box" rule of the Star Trek universe - a rule laid out
>>>> >>>> by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry which says that members of
>>>> >>>> Starfleet cannot be shown in deep conflict with each other or
>>>> >>>> portrayed
>>>> >>>> in too negative a light.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> That rule - that Starfleet members must be ultimately upstanding - has
>>>> >>>> been stretched a few times in the series' 50 year history, especially
>>>> >>>> in
>>>> >>>> recent films. But Discovery's showrunners Aaron Harberts and Gretchen
>>>> >>>> J.
>>>> >>>> Berg say the show will explore conflict between members of Starfleet
>>>> >>>> in
>>>> >>>> more depth than ever before.
>>>> >>>> END QUOTE
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So in addition to a lack of subtlety, we can expect a lack of
>>>> >>>> discipline
>>>> >>>> and an overall attitude of "My opinion WILL be heard because my
>>>> >>>> self-esteem matters and I have a right to be heard. Even though I'm
>>>> >>>> just
>>>> >>>> an ensign."
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I also like the "especially in recent films" bit in that quote, which
>>>> >>>> is
>>>> >>>> a kind way of pointing out one of the many ways that Team Abrams has
>>>> >>>> *already* damaged this franchise.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> racist
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> >> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> >> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> >> the show gets.
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>
>> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
>> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
>> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?
>
> They explained that.

Yep...with hand-wavium silliness that negated the simple reality that
the Trek film modified the look of the Klingons because the original
look was too simplistic and lame for a film.

> STD gets it wrong.

Once you've opened up the world to 'make them look different whenever
you want', I'm not sure it matters. Whatever the case, though, the new
DISCOVERY show will look much better if they avoid going back to the
original dippy Klingon look.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394041 is a reply to message #394038] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
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In article <oirnfk$b29$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>
>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>> ship or the newer one.
>
> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/

Not so much 'groovy' as 'ugly' and note that they're using the wrong era
phasers.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394042 is a reply to message #394040] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
In article <oirnv7$dvn$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:30 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiriqi$qk0$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 03:16 PM:
>>>> >>>> In article <oimd05$n7l$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Doc O'Leary sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 11:21 AM:
>>>> >>>>>> Trek
>>>> >>>>>> *used* to smartly address current social issues via allegory.
>>>> >>>>>> Everything
>>>> >>>>>> I read about this new show seems to indicate no such subtlety will
>>>> >>>>>> exist.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Yep. Most writers -- especially the younger ones -- seem to prefer
>>>> >>>>> anvils these days.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Not only that, but there's this, as well:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> https://www.newsarama.com/35070-star-trek-discovery-to-explo re-space-
>>>> >>>>> ou
>>>> >>>>> ts
>>>> >>>>> id
>>>> >>>>> e-r
>>>> >>>>> oddenberry-s-box.html
>>>> >>>>> (or http://tinyurl.com/ycczjbym)
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> From the start of the article:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> QUOTE
>>>> >>>>> Star Trek: Discovery will break the longstanding - but somewhat
>>>> >>>>> unspoken
>>>> >>>>> - "Roddenberry's Box" rule of the Star Trek universe - a rule laid
>>>> >>>>> out
>>>> >>>>> by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry which says that members of
>>>> >>>>> Starfleet cannot be shown in deep conflict with each other or
>>>> >>>>> portrayed
>>>> >>>>> in too negative a light.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> That rule - that Starfleet members must be ultimately upstanding -
>>>> >>>>> has
>>>> >>>>> been stretched a few times in the series' 50 year history,
>>>> >>>>> especially
>>>> >>>>> in
>>>> >>>>> recent films. But Discovery's showrunners Aaron Harberts and
>>>> >>>>> Gretchen
>>>> >>>>> J.
>>>> >>>>> Berg say the show will explore conflict between members of Starfleet
>>>> >>>>> in
>>>> >>>>> more depth than ever before.
>>>> >>>>> END QUOTE
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> So in addition to a lack of subtlety, we can expect a lack of
>>>> >>>>> discipline
>>>> >>>>> and an overall attitude of "My opinion WILL be heard because my
>>>> >>>>> self-esteem matters and I have a right to be heard. Even though I'm
>>>> >>>>> just
>>>> >>>>> an ensign."
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I also like the "especially in recent films" bit in that quote,
>>>> >>>>> which
>>>> >>>>> is
>>>> >>>>> a kind way of pointing out one of the many ways that Team Abrams has
>>>> >>>>> *already* damaged this franchise.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> racist
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>> damage
>>>> >>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>> J.J.
>>>> >>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>> worse
>>>> >>> the show gets.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>>
>>> If you are going to rag on the show as being incompetent for changing
>>> the look of 'known things', how do you resolve the changes within the
>>> original cast era (such as the Klingon's face/head)?
>>
>> They explained that.
>
> Yep...with hand-wavium silliness that negated the simple reality that
> the Trek film modified the look of the Klingons because the original
> look was too simplistic and lame for a film.
>
>> STD gets it wrong.
>
> Once you've opened up the world to 'make them look different whenever
> you want', I'm not sure it matters. Whatever the case, though, the new
> DISCOVERY show will look much better if they avoid going back to the
> original dippy Klingon look.

Or if they ashcanned the series right now.

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394052 is a reply to message #394041] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 4:07 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oirnfk$b29$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> > In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>>
>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>>> ship or the newer one.
>>
>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>
> Not so much 'groovy' as 'ugly' and note that they're using the wrong era
> phasers.

Using a phaser that looks closer to STAR TREK (The Original Series)
rather than the phaser from the scrapped pilot stuff in The Cage episode
isn't likely to offend many people beyond the few here who are just
going to insist on being offended by anything/everything with the new
series. The new show may suck royally and it may be entirely irrelevant
since few people will be watching anyway, but people need to find better
things to gripe about.

The complaints about the Klingon looks or the look of the transporters
or the look of the phasers is right on par with the complaints about
SUPERMAN's outfit being the wrong shade of blue or WONDER WOMAN's outfit
not being flaggy enough.

Were you guys sitting around the water cooler back in the 80s griping
about how much the new BUCK ROGERS TV series sucked because the ships no
longer swung back and forth on pieces of fishing line like they were
supposed too? ...and they failed to have cigarette smoke wafting
randomly out of the back like was coda?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394053 is a reply to message #394028] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Dimensional Traveler sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:22 PM:
> On 6/26/2017 12:10 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >> damage
>>>> >> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >> J.J.
>>>> >> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >> worse
>>>> >> the show gets.
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>> because we're making it all different!"
>>
> DING DING DING DING DING. By George, I think he's finally got it!
>
> ;)

I've never been confused on this particular issue. If the people behind
these "reimaginings" were truly gifted, then they would come up with
something new and original instead of opting to bastardize someone
else's previous work. But they don't want to admit to themselves, let
alone anyone else, that they're incompetent, so they try to hide their
lack of talent behind a lot of stupid changes that, at best, accomplish
nothing and, at worst, make them look even more stupid than they already
do. I read that this particular batch of idiots even sent someone to
Sweden or some such place to research fabric materials for the uniforms.
You can't make this stuff up.

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“This is where you end up when your parents don't tell you they love
you.” – Clive Babineaux, iZOMBIE
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394054 is a reply to message #394034] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Ubiquitous sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:28 PM:
> jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> >> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> >> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> >> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> >> the show gets.
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>> because we're making it all different!"
>
> I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.

They will accept that analogy as long as you acknowledge that their
method of urinating is both different and extremely clever and artistic
and creative.

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“This is where you end up when your parents don't tell you they love
you.” – Clive Babineaux, iZOMBIE
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394055 is a reply to message #394037] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
Member
anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:31 PM:
> In article <oirlvu$6m5$1@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> > In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its damage
>>>> >> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if J.J.
>>>> >> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the worse
>>>> >> the show gets.
>>>> >
>>>> > But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> > 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>>
>>>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>
>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>
>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>
>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>> because we're making it all different!"
>
> Racist

I'm trying to "reimagine" the concept of racism. How am I doing so far?

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“This is where you end up when your parents don't tell you they love
you.” – Clive Babineaux, iZOMBIE
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394056 is a reply to message #394038] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
Member
Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:35 PM:>
> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>
>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>> ship or the newer one.
>
> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/

Thanks. My usual stops weren't committing in terms of saying which ship
we were seeing. One can only hope that the crash test dummy design won't
be present on Discovery.

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“This is where you end up when your parents don't tell you they love
you.” – Clive Babineaux, iZOMBIE
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394057 is a reply to message #394039] Mon, 26 June 2017 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 12:40 PM, Obveeus wrote:
>
>
> On 6/26/2017 3:13 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>
>> You know, one of the differences in feel between TOS and both TNG and
>> the 2009 re-boot is in how they address discipline and chain of
>> command. TOS was written by people who had some idea of what the
>> military was really like, many of them having served themselves. Yes,
>> they bend things a bit for story purposes and the limits of filming a
>> TV show, but their starting point was a working military. Characters
>> stay at their posts.
>
> This is simply not true. The show illogically (for any real military)
> had the leader, Kirk, always beaming down into unknown conditions. Many
> of the rest of the bridge crew illogically beamed down frequently as
> well. Outside of Spock and Uhura, none of those people should/would
> have ever had a reason to have been bopping down to new planets on a
> whim in any realistic 'military' show.
>
Senior officers did exactly that during the Age of Exploration. I did
also say they bend things for production purposes.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394058 is a reply to message #394011] Mon, 26 June 2017 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Doc O'Leary

For your reference, records indicate that
Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:

> Another Reboot. That much is certain.

Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
set in the classic “Prime” timeline. That’s why doing what they’re
doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
Enterprise. It’s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
reboot.

Either that or, like I’m sure I’ve said before, someone needs to sit
down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394059 is a reply to message #394038] Mon, 26 June 2017 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <oirnfk$b29$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>
>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>> ship or the newer one.
>
> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/


I note that the headline here is "Star Trek: Discovery first look at a
groovy new transporter room."

"Groovy"? How old are these people?
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394060 is a reply to message #394055] Mon, 26 June 2017 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <oirqim$n2j$3@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:31 PM:
>> In article <oirlvu$6m5$1@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>> damage
>>>> >>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>> J.J.
>>>> >>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>> worse
>>>> >>> the show gets.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>> because we're making it all different!"
>>
>> Racist
>
> I'm trying to "reimagine" the concept of racism. How am I doing so far?

You're winning the race!

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394061 is a reply to message #394058] Mon, 26 June 2017 17:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>
>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>
> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
> set in the classic “Prime” timeline. That’s why doing what they’re
> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
> Enterprise. It’s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
> reboot.
>
> Either that or, like I’m sure I’ve said before, someone needs to sit
> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>
The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
"creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394065 is a reply to message #394060] Mon, 26 June 2017 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 2:36 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oirqim$n2j$3@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:31 PM:
>>> In article <oirlvu$6m5$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> > In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>>> damage
>>>> >>>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>>> J.J.
>>>> >>>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>>> worse
>>>> >>>> the show gets.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>>> because we're making it all different!"
>>>
>>> Racist
>>
>> I'm trying to "reimagine" the concept of racism. How am I doing so far?
>
> You're winning the race!
>
So he's the lead racist?

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394066 is a reply to message #394061] Mon, 26 June 2017 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>> For your reference, records indicate that
>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>
>>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>
>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>> set in the classic “Prime” timeline. That’s why doing what they’re
>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>> Enterprise. It’s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>> reboot.
>>
>> Either that or, like I’m sure I’ve said before, someone needs to sit
>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>
> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.

That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
(some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
Cochrane as a black woman.

--
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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394067 is a reply to message #394052] Mon, 26 June 2017 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Corporal Hammer is currently offline  Lance Corporal Hammer
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2012
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On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 16:23:18 -0400, Obveeus wrote:

> Using a phaser that looks closer to STAR TREK (The Original Series)
> rather than the phaser from the scrapped pilot stuff in The Cage episode
> isn't likely to offend many people beyond the few here who are just
> going to insist on being offended by anything/everything with the new
> series. The new show may suck royally and it may be entirely irrelevant
> since few people will be watching anyway, but people need to find better
> things to gripe about.

Personally, I couldn't care less that the visual effects are
different. I am perfectly fine with that. It doesn't bother me at
all if the bridge looks more advanced or the Klingons look a little
different. Don't care.

My complaint (probably too strong a word, it's just a show) is that
the people making the show have made a concerted effort to make big
social justice BS a huge issue for it, to the point of re-writing
canonical history of the Trek universe to do it, and to make this
totally unrealistic view of no straight white males in sight 10 years
before Kirk. That's a nonstarter for good fiction especially in an
established universe. They have an agenda to push. There were some
horrible agenda EPISODES of other Trek, like The Outcast, where they
basically tell us that Riker was attracted to someone with an
underdeveloped penis and you should be happy about that, but that was
one (awful) episode. These guys are going all in on in-your-face
snowflake-revolution-in-space, and screw your Trek timeline, we are
going to shove all of our SJW wet dreams into this show because it's
better than what was already there.

--
Hammer
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394068 is a reply to message #394027] Mon, 26 June 2017 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lance Corporal Hammer is currently offline  Lance Corporal Hammer
Messages: 35
Registered: July 2012
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Member
On Mon, 26 Jun 2017 15:21:41 -0400, Ubiquitous wrote:

> If memory serves, they made a big deal about having a female captain

The PR push was annoying, but they didn't have to upend anything to
write the character. At least the timeline worked. Kirk says that
women are forbidden to captain a sharship 10 years after Discover
takes place. Not a problem for Voyager.

--
Hammer
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394069 is a reply to message #394066] Mon, 26 June 2017 18:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
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Member
On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>
>>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>> set in the classic “Prime” timeline. That’s why doing what they’re
>>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>> Enterprise. It’s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
>>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
>>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>>> reboot.
>>>
>>> Either that or, like I’m sure I’ve said before, someone needs to sit
>>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>
>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>
> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
> Cochrane as a black woman.
>
I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their egotistic
"I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.

Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch something
of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394070 is a reply to message #394069] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>>
>>>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> set in the classic ‰裉Prime‰� timeline. That‰菄s why doing what
>>>> they‰菄re
>>>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> Enterprise. It‰菄s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
>>>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
>>>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>>>> reboot.
>>>>
>>>> Either that or, like I‰菄m sure I‰菄ve said before, someone needs to sit
>>>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>>
>>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
>>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
>>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
>>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>
>> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
>> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>
> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their egotistic
> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>
> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch something
> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.

Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making eps of Trek ...

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Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394071 is a reply to message #394056] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
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Member
On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Jim G. wrote:
> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:35 PM:>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> > In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can
>>>> >>> cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to
>>>> >> pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at
>>>> > it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>>
>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>>> ship or the newer one.
>>
>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>
> Thanks. My usual stops weren't committing in terms of saying which ship
> we were seeing. One can only hope that the crash test dummy design won't
> be present on Discovery.

As I recall, they used that model for the first STAR TREK film as well.
The thing turned Kirk's girlfriend into THE FLY.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394072 is a reply to message #394059] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 5:28 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <oirnfk$b29$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:12 PM, Jim G. wrote:
>>> Obveeus sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 01:16 PM:>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 1:22 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> > In article <oiregd$9tl$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> In article <oimjvf$o5k$3@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The transporter preview image that has been shown is from the older
>>>> ship, not the more current ship (Discovery).
>>>
>>> Do you have a cite for that? Because everything that I saw when this
>>> came out made it clear that it was unknown if the image was of the older
>>> ship or the newer one.
>>
>> http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/22/star-trek-discovery-transporter- room/
>
>
> I note that the headline here is "Star Trek: Discovery first look at a
> groovy new transporter room."
>
> "Groovy"? How old are these people?

Approximately the same age as other STAR TREK viewers. ;-P
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394073 is a reply to message #394070] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> > For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> > Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >
>>>> > Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> > set in the classic ‰裉Prime‰� timeline. That‰菄s why doing what
>>>> > they‰菄re
>>>> > doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> > intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> > Enterprise. It‰菄s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
>>>> > Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
>>>> > tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>>>> > reboot.
>>>> >
>>>> > Either that or, like I‰菄m sure I‰菄ve said before, someone needs to sit
>>>> > down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> > coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> > production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> > real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >
>>>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
>>>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
>>>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
>>>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>
>>> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
>>> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>
>> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their egotistic
>> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>
>> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch something
>> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>
> Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making eps of Trek ...

Alternatively, Simon Pegg is a huge TREK fan and he put all kinds of
stuff into the film to make TREK fans happy and they still complained.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394074 is a reply to message #394070] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 4:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> > For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> > Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >
>>>> > Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> > set in the classic ‰裉Prime‰� timeline. That‰菄s why doing what
>>>> > they‰菄re
>>>> > doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> > intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> > Enterprise. It‰菄s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years prior to
>>>> > Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because our
>>>> > tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>>>> > reboot.
>>>> >
>>>> > Either that or, like I‰菄m sure I‰菄ve said before, someone needs to sit
>>>> > down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> > coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> > production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> > real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >
>>>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put their
>>>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
>>>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing to the
>>>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>
>>> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
>>> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>
>> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their egotistic
>> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>
>> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch something
>> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>
> Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making eps of Trek ...
>
"But then it won't be _MY_ Star Trek!!!"

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394083 is a reply to message #394073] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Obveeus wrote:
>
>
> On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>> In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> >> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> >> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> >> set in the classic ‰裉Prime‰� timeline. That‰菄s why
>>>> >> doing what
>>>> >> they‰菄re
>>>> >> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> >> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> >> Enterprise. It‰菄s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years
>>>> >> prior to
>>>> >> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just because
>>>> >> our
>>>> >> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have been a
>>>> >> reboot.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Either that or, like I‰菄m sure I‰菄ve said before, someone
>>>> >> needs to sit
>>>> >> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> >> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> >> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> >> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >>
>>>> > The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put
>>>> > their
>>>> > own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with what
>>>> > others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing
>>>> > to the
>>>> > ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> > Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> > "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>>
>>>> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives" won't
>>>> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>>> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>>> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>>> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>>
>>> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their egotistic
>>> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>>> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>>
>>> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch something
>>> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>>> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>>
>> Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making eps
>> of Trek ...
>
> Alternatively, Simon Pegg is a huge TREK fan and he put all kinds of
> stuff into the film to make TREK fans happy and they still complained.

He didn't get rid of the Abrams stink....

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394084 is a reply to message #394083] Mon, 26 June 2017 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Obveeus is currently offline  Obveeus
Messages: 31
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 7:47 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Obveeus wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>> In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> > In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> >>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> >>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> >>> set in the classic ‰裉Prime‰� timeline. That‰菄s why
>>>> >>> doing what
>>>> >>> they‰菄re
>>>> >>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> >>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> >>> Enterprise. It‰菄s just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years
>>>> >>> prior to
>>>> >>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just
>>>> >>> because our
>>>> >>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have
>>>> >>> been a
>>>> >>> reboot.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Either that or, like I‰菄m sure I‰菄ve said before, someone
>>>> >>> needs to sit
>>>> >>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> >>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> >>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> >>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put
>>>> >> their
>>>> >> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with
>>>> >> what
>>>> >> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing
>>>> >> to the
>>>> >> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> >> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> >> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>> >
>>>> > That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives"
>>>> > won't
>>>> > (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>>> > source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>>> > seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>>> > Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>> >
>>>> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their
>>>> egotistic
>>>> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>>>> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>>>
>>>> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch
>>>> something
>>>> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>>>> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>>>
>>> Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making
>>> eps of Trek ...
>>
>> Alternatively, Simon Pegg is a huge TREK fan and he put all kinds of
>> stuff into the film to make TREK fans happy and they still complained.
>
> He didn't get rid of the Abrams stink....

The third entry in the series was much better than the second. The only
real stink in it was a bunch of stupid motorcycle stuff. Of course, I'm
dreading the fourth film somewhat because I'm not looking forward to
Chekov getting run over by the ship and written off.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394085 is a reply to message #394084] Mon, 26 June 2017 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <ois6q5$ttv$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
wrote:

> On 6/26/2017 7:47 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Obveeus wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> >> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> >>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> >>>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> >>>> set in the classic 槼�Prime槼•�1�2� timeline. That槼綼 why
>>>> >>>> doing what
>>>> >>>> they槼綖e
>>>> >>>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> >>>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> >>>> Enterprise. It槼綼 just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years
>>>> >>>> prior to
>>>> >>>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just
>>>> >>>> because our
>>>> >>>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have
>>>> >>>> been a
>>>> >>>> reboot.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Either that or, like I槼緆 sure I槼綮e said before, someone
>>>> >>>> needs to sit
>>>> >>>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> >>>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> >>>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> >>>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put
>>>> >>> their
>>>> >>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with
>>>> >>> what
>>>> >>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing
>>>> >>> to the
>>>> >>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> >>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> >>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives"
>>>> >> won't
>>>> >> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>>> >> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>>> >> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>>> >> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>> >>
>>>> > I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their
>>>> > egotistic
>>>> > "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>>>> > problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>>> >
>>>> > Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch
>>>> > something
>>>> > of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>>>> > unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>>>>
>>>> Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making
>>>> eps of Trek ...
>>>
>>> Alternatively, Simon Pegg is a huge TREK fan and he put all kinds of
>>> stuff into the film to make TREK fans happy and they still complained.
>>
>> He didn't get rid of the Abrams stink....
>
> The third entry in the series was much better than the second. The only
> real stink in it was a bunch of stupid motorcycle stuff. Of course, I'm
> dreading the fourth film somewhat because I'm not looking forward to
> Chekov getting run over by the ship and written off.

You're honestly the first person I've heard rate BEYOND any better than
'worst of series, crime against humanity'

Even the people that actually watched it felt that way.

--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394086 is a reply to message #394054] Mon, 26 June 2017 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BTR1701 is currently offline  BTR1701
Messages: 20
Registered: May 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
In article <oirqh1$n2j$2@dont-email.me>,
"Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:

> Ubiquitous sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:28 PM:
>> jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> >>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>> damage
>>>> >>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>> J.J.
>>>> >>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>> worse
>>>> >>> the show gets.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >
>>>> > Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> > something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> > enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> > transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>>
>>>> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> badly does *that* bode?
>>>>
>>>> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>
>>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>> because we're making it all different!"
>>
>> I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.
>
> They will accept that analogy as long as you acknowledge that their
> method of urinating is both different and extremely clever and artistic
> and creative.

Plus socially-relevant and diverse.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394087 is a reply to message #394086] Mon, 26 June 2017 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <atropos-5A9A20.18171326062017@news.giganews.com>,
BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:

> In article <oirqh1$n2j$2@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ubiquitous sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:28 PM:
>>> jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >>>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>>> damage
>>>> >>>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>>> J.J.
>>>> >>>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>>> worse
>>>> >>>> the show gets.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>>> because we're making it all different!"
>>>
>>> I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.
>>
>> They will accept that analogy as long as you acknowledge that their
>> method of urinating is both different and extremely clever and artistic
>> and creative.
>
> Plus socially-relevant and diverse.

Meaning "no whites allowed"

--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394088 is a reply to message #394085] Mon, 26 June 2017 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 5:24 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <ois6q5$ttv$1@dont-email.me>, Obveeus <Obveeus@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/26/2017 7:47 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2017 4:29 PM, Obveeus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2017 7:01 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> > In article <ois270$hrv$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> > Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 6/26/2017 3:04 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
>>>> >>> In article <oiruio$53s$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> >>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 6/26/2017 2:03 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote:
>>>> >>>>> For your reference, records indicate that
>>>> >>>>> Wouter Valentijn <liam@valentijn.nu> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Another Reboot. That much is certain.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Just the opposite. They announced that Discovery is supposed to be
>>>> >>>>> set in the classic 槼�Prime槼•�1�2� timeline. That槼綼 why
>>>> >>>>> doing what
>>>> >>>>> they槼綖e
>>>> >>>>> doing is problematic well beyond any cries of racism or other
>>>> >>>>> intolerance. It was problematic when they did the same thing with
>>>> >>>>> Enterprise. It槼綼 just dumb to depict things 10 or 100 years
>>>> >>>>> prior to
>>>> >>>>> Kirk as being more advanced than what even Picard had just
>>>> >>>>> because our
>>>> >>>>> tech has taken off in the present. It certainly *should* have
>>>> >>>>> been a
>>>> >>>>> reboot.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Either that or, like I槼緆 sure I槼綮e said before, someone
>>>> >>>>> needs to sit
>>>> >>>>> down with all the property in the franchise and work out a fully
>>>> >>>>> coherent continuity. One that they can stick to for all *future*
>>>> >>>>> production as well, of course. All this piecemeal shit has become a
>>>> >>>>> real anchor around the neck of the Trek universe.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> The "creative" types would hate that. They want to be able to put
>>>> >>>> their
>>>> >>>> own stamp on it without being "hampered" by being consistent with
>>>> >>>> what
>>>> >>>> others have done. Why do you think Abrams burned the whole thing
>>>> >>>> to the
>>>> >>>> ground and started over from scratch? Why do you think every other
>>>> >>>> Superman or Spiderman movie is a reboot, origin story? Because the
>>>> >>>> "creatives" want it to be _their_ vision that controls.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> That's partly it. You've also got the part where the "creatives"
>>>> >>> won't
>>>> >>> (some say can't) read the source material, and nowadays won't watch
>>>> >>> source material. Brannon Braga was apparently proud of having never
>>>> >>> seen an episode of real Trek, which is how he ended up writing Zephram
>>>> >>> Cochrane as a black woman.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >> I think the "won't read/view source material" is part of their
>>>> >> egotistic
>>>> >> "I can do it better! if you just don't bother me with the truth"
>>>> >> problem. So the two are sides of the same metaphorical coin.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Plus there's the whole "I'll sue you if you ever read or watch
>>>> >> something
>>>> >> of mine and then ever in your life make something I can claim was
>>>> >> unconsciously influenced by my work!" thing.
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, yeah, but refusing to watch an ep of Trek when you're making
>>>> > eps of Trek ...
>>>>
>>>> Alternatively, Simon Pegg is a huge TREK fan and he put all kinds of
>>>> stuff into the film to make TREK fans happy and they still complained.
>>>
>>> He didn't get rid of the Abrams stink....
>>
>> The third entry in the series was much better than the second. The only
>> real stink in it was a bunch of stupid motorcycle stuff. Of course, I'm
>> dreading the fourth film somewhat because I'm not looking forward to
>> Chekov getting run over by the ship and written off.
>
> You're honestly the first person I've heard rate BEYOND any better than
> 'worst of series, crime against humanity'
>
> Even the people that actually watched it felt that way.
>
I am proud to say that I have successfully avoided seeing any of #3
beyond the few frames of TV ads before I could skip ahead on the DVR. I
think I got away with only minor mental damage.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394089 is a reply to message #394087] Mon, 26 June 2017 21:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dimensional Traveler is currently offline  Dimensional Traveler
Messages: 60
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
On 6/26/2017 6:27 PM, anim8rfsk wrote:
> In article <atropos-5A9A20.18171326062017@news.giganews.com>,
> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <oirqh1$n2j$2@dont-email.me>,
>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Ubiquitous sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:28 PM:
>>>> jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
>>>> > anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> >> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>>>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>>>> damage
>>>> >>>>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>>>> J.J.
>>>> >>>>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>>>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>>>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>>>> worse
>>>> >>>>> the show gets.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >>> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >>> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >>> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> >> badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> >> we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>> >
>>>> > The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>>> > be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>>> > because we're making it all different!"
>>>>
>>>> I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.
>>>
>>> They will accept that analogy as long as you acknowledge that their
>>> method of urinating is both different and extremely clever and artistic
>>> and creative.
>>
>> Plus socially-relevant and diverse.
>
> Meaning "no whites allowed"
>
Say all the white men financing all this.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.
Re: Star Trek: Discovery star replies to show's racist critics [message #394090 is a reply to message #394086] Mon, 26 June 2017 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Jim G. is currently offline  Jim G.
Messages: 52
Registered: August 2011
Karma: 0
Member
BTR1701 sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 08:17 PM:
> In article <oirqh1$n2j$2@dont-email.me>,
> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Ubiquitous sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 02:28 PM:
>>> jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid wrote:
>>>> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/26/2017 at 12:22 PM:
>>>> > "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >> anim8rfsk sent the following on 06/24/2017 at 04:44 PM:
>>>> >>> "Jim G." <jimgysin@geemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >>>> Heh. No, Abrams did his damage in the discipline and dumbing-down
>>>> >>>> departments. This latest fustercluck seems committed to doing its
>>>> >>>> damage
>>>> >>>> in the "diversity" and "passion" departments. Honestly, I wonder if
>>>> >>>> J.J.
>>>> >>>> is paying these idiots to provide a new target for the anger and
>>>> >>>> hostility of Trek purists. All I know is that each time someone new
>>>> >>>> comes along to "improve" Trek for a more "inclusive" audience, the
>>>> >>>> worse
>>>> >>>> the show gets.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> But don't you think this whole thing is staging, so that they can cry
>>>> >>> 'racist' to *any* complaint about Star Trek STD?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Are the people behind this thing competent or clever enough to pull off
>>>> >> something like that? Because they're clearly not competent or clever
>>>> >> enough to pull off a good Trek prequel. (I just saw a photo of a
>>>> >> transporter room, and these people are consistent, if nothing else.)
>>>> >
>>>> > I saw that that was out there and didn't even bother to look at it. How
>>>> > badly does *that* bode?
>>>> >
>>>> > Bear in mind that this is set in exactly the same year as THE CAGE, so
>>>> > we *know* what stuff should look like.
>>>>
>>>> The entire mindset of people who do this sort of "reimagining" seems to
>>>> be something along the lines of: "We know that ours will be better
>>>> because we're making it all different!"
>>>
>>> I thought it was merely their attempt to mark their own territory.
>>
>> They will accept that analogy as long as you acknowledge that their
>> method of urinating is both different and extremely clever and artistic
>> and creative.
>
> Plus socially-relevant and diverse.

And these days, the "socially relevant" bit seems to translate to "as
dysfunctional as you can make it so that the characters are as unlikable
as possible."

--
Jim G. | A fan of the good and the bad, but not the mediocre
“It smells like bad beer and worse choices. I'll make it work.” – Rosita
Bustillos, WYNONNA EARP
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