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Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419214 is a reply to message #419208] Sun, 19 February 2023 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 18:22:02 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> There have been designs discussed where the chassis is standardized

They've gone way past discussion, most EVs that were designed from
scratch as EVs are built this way.

> (battery, motors, suspension) and any arbitrary body can be dropped on it
> with the appropriate bells and whistles.

See for example the platform underpinning Volkswagen's ID<n> range,
the similar one used by Kia/Hyundai for the Ioniq/EV6 etc. and SAICs one
used for the MG4 and no doubt a bunch of others that haven't left China yet.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419215 is a reply to message #419204] Sun, 19 February 2023 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:10:29 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I thought they were planning a system where the dealer could just pull out
> a rack of batteries and slide in a new one?

Not on any range of EVs I know about - there's not much point given
the life of batteries.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419216 is a reply to message #419203] Sun, 19 February 2023 13:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:10:28 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:51 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner
>>> and get a full charge in five minutes.
>>
>> Why would you want to do that if you have a charger where the
>> car is parked ?
>>
>
> We would be the last people to get one. I now live in a condo complex

So EVs are not for you yet - that doesn't make them bad.

Here that midnight call would leave me with the problem that there
would be no filling station open for quite some distance - most are closed
by 9pm.

> (with a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone
> going to put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just
> a few, because everyone would need one.

Why not - who owns the parking spaces ? A 7kW charger is
essentially just a power point fed by 2.5mm T&E with a fancy socket -
sooner or later it will be a must have. If they only run during
off-peak times the impact on the grid is minimal to non-existent.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419217 is a reply to message #419210] Sun, 19 February 2023 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:10:28 -0700, Peter Flass
> <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner and
>>>> get a full charge in five minutes.
>>>
>>> Why would you want to do that if you have a charger where the car
>>> is parked ?
>>>
>>
>> We would be the last people to get one. I now live in a condo complex (with
>> a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone going to
>> put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just a few,
>> because everyone would need one.
>
> I asked relatives about this, they had researched getting an EV. Turns
> out part of the purchase price is getting your very own charging
> station.

Great, now dig up the parking lot to run the line. Now multiply this by
100. If someone wants to do it, I might consider an EV, since I’m unlikely
to make another cross-country trip.

--
Pete
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419218 is a reply to message #419213] Sun, 19 February 2023 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner and
>>>> get a full charge in five minutes.
>>>
>>> Why would you want to do that if you have a charger where the car
>>> is parked ?
>>
>> We would be the last people to get one. I now live in a condo complex (with
>> a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone going to
>> put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just a few,
>> because everyone would need one.
>
> It's just a bit of wiring. If you put one in, how hard is it, to put
> chargers in all the spaces?
>
> Everyone doesn't need one all at once, but at some point you'd just
> decide it's time to wire all the parking spaces.
>

Fine. The infrastructure plan should be able to cover it. Or do you expect
my HOA fees to cover wiring everyone’s parking spot.

--
Pete
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419219 is a reply to message #419204] Sun, 19 February 2023 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
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On 2023-02-19, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 03:02:10 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Another factor that isn't yet fully appreciated is battery life.
>>> EVs haven't been around long enough for a significant number of
>>> batteries to wear out, so we have yet to find out exactly what
>>> is involved in amortizing a $25,000 replacement battery.
>>
>> EVs have been around long enough for us to know that replacing the
>> battery is not going to happen - it's even less sensible than replacing a
>> worn out IC engine and very few do that these days. An EV is essentially a
>> battery on wheels, almost all of the value is in the battery. When the
>> battery won't hold a useful charge the car is dead.
>
> I thought they were planning a system where the dealer could just pull out
> a rack of batteries and slide in a new one?

Exactly why a late friend disliked them almost thirty years ago. Slide
them out, slide a new set in?. It took a special tool, on wheels, like a
forklift. The part of the garage that they did that was ten miles awaay
from the main garage.
>
>>
>> Most people won't own an EV anywhere near battery end of life, just
>> as most people don't own an IC car anywhere near engine end of life. It'll
>> only be those who buy at the bottom of the second hand market (there are
>> some pretty cheap early Leafs around with degraded batteries) and those who
>> buy and keep until dead. The heavily driven ten year old Leafs are still
>> above 505 of the original capacity (or so the ads claim) which makes them
>> only suitable for short distance runarounds. Modern EVs with their
>> much bigger batteries should be a lot more useful at ten years old.
>>
>
>
>


--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419220 is a reply to message #419212] Sun, 19 February 2023 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
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On 2023-02-19, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
>
>> On 2023-02-19, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> > On 2023-02-17, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On Thu, 16 Feb 2023 14:13:20 -0700
>>>> >>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>> were still on the road).
>>
>>
>> I am told that many Honda diesels are overrunning their registers. That
>> is over a million miles. Salesmen around here (.ie) are claiming 25
>> years for the time that solar panels last. In my experience, looking at
>> them when driving along the road, 15 is stretching it. It is also very
>> important to not let the batteries get wet. There was some cartoons
>> years ago about not letting pets get wet, it caused them to turn
>> violent. EV batteries are much the same.
>
> You can tell a solar panel is at EOL by looking? Why do I doubt you?

A rigerous, techno intensive test. you turn the solar panels on, nothing
comes out, no spark, nothing.
>
> I believe you are referring to Mogwai (gremlins).
>


--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419223 is a reply to message #419216] Sun, 19 February 2023 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 11:10:28 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> (with a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone
>> going to put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just
>> a few, because everyone would need one.
>
> Why not - who owns the parking spaces ? A 7kW charger is
> essentially just a power point fed by 2.5mm T&E with a fancy socket -
> sooner or later it will be a must have. If they only run during
> off-peak times the impact on the grid is minimal to non-existent.

However, there will need to be an usage tracking and cost allocation
mechanism, per spot; and in a non-gated parking solution, some form
of security element.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419224 is a reply to message #419200] Sun, 19 February 2023 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2023-02-19 18:54, Peter Flass wrote:
> maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-02-18, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>>> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> That's true today, however even fewer have a gas station
>>>> at their home either. Rather a wash, don't you think?
>>>
>>> It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner and
>>> get a full charge in five minutes.
>>
>> Speak the correct language. The newspeak would be, achieve a 85% charge
>> in under an hour. Like torrents, the last %15 can take an long time.
>> Have a cup of coffee? at somewhere of minimal interest!. How
>> attractive! `Josephines' in Kilkenny, where they hardly speak English?
>> It closed down for lack of business.
>
> I’d accept 85% in five minutes.

45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419226 is a reply to message #419224] Sun, 19 February 2023 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andy Burns is currently offline  Andy Burns
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Carlos E.R. wrote:

> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.

But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419227 is a reply to message #419223] Sun, 19 February 2023 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:54:42 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> However, there will need to be an usage tracking and cost allocation
> mechanism, per spot; and in a non-gated parking solution, some form
> of security element.

Card scanner on the socket, job done.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419228 is a reply to message #419211] Sun, 19 February 2023 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:37:39 -0500
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've been reading, after the batteries become too worn out for the car
> they are in, they can still be used for electricity storage.

Sure - consider the 24kWh Leafs that get down to about 10kWh and
become too short range to be useful, that's still 10kWh of storage and an
EOL secondhand Leaf is probably the cheapest way of getting that much
battery complete with charging circuits - wheels to push it around is a
bonus. The cheapest per kWh battery I've seen was a crash written off MG5
with a 60kWh battery going for a few thousand (I forget exactly how much,
well less than 10,000 anyway).

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419229 is a reply to message #419220] Sun, 19 February 2023 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On 19 Feb 2023 19:34:28 GMT
maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:

> A rigerous, techno intensive test. you turn the solar panels on

I have never seen a solar panel with a switch.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419230 is a reply to message #419226] Sun, 19 February 2023 16:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>
> But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...

Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
grow charging spots.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419234 is a reply to message #419227] Sun, 19 February 2023 19:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:54:42 GMT
> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> However, there will need to be an usage tracking and cost allocation
>> mechanism, per spot; and in a non-gated parking solution, some form
>> of security element.
>
> Card scanner on the socket, job done.
>

Right. It would have to be separately metered anyway, in this case. How
about the electric utility installs then and charges a cent or so surcharge
per KwH over their normal rates to amortize the cost. The model would be
the old Bell System.

--
Pete
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419240 is a reply to message #419234] Mon, 20 February 2023 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 17:46:24 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:54:42 GMT
>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>
>>> However, there will need to be an usage tracking and cost allocation
>>> mechanism, per spot; and in a non-gated parking solution, some form
>>> of security element.
>>
>> Card scanner on the socket, job done.
>>
>
> Right. It would have to be separately metered anyway, in this case. How
> about the electric utility installs then and charges a cent or so
> surcharge per KwH over their normal rates to amortize the cost. The model
> would be the old Bell System.

That sounds like a working model - here it's the grid company that
installs and owns the public chargers so much the same model.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419245 is a reply to message #419195] Mon, 20 February 2023 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexander Schreiber is currently offline  Alexander Schreiber
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Junior Member
maus <maus@mail.com> wrote:
>
> Sugar cane alcohol seems to work better, I am told that a foreighner in
> Brasil constantly thinks that they smell burned candy, until they get
> used to it.
>
> Only years ago, people were told that adding lead to petrol was a great
> idea

Because poisoning your fellow man with fine lead dust was more profitable
than just adding ethanol to gasoline. The NASCAR area (where all the
NASCAR races are held and which until not too long ago still stuck to
leaded gasoline) had a lovely spike in both above-average deaths and
in noticeably-below-average test scores for kids (because lead exposure
while growing up doesn't exactly turn one into a genius).

And it took the FAA just too damn long to finally approve unleaded
avgas (happened only recently).

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419246 is a reply to message #419207] Mon, 20 February 2023 11:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexander Schreiber is currently offline  Alexander Schreiber
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
>>
>> Fortunately, the local utilities are very good at preventive maintenance
>> and ensuring that Things Simply Work As They Are Supposed To Do.
>> It helps to live in a small rich country, I admit.
>
> Can’t see your address, but I have to assume you’re not in the US when you
> say that. Actually, companies have plenty of money, what they son’t have is
> any sense of responsibility for seeing that their power grid doesn’t cause
> forest fires, or that their trains don’t poison the air and water supply
> for groups of people.

I currently live in Switzerland. The place both has good regulations _and_
enforcement of same. Crap like PG&E literally waiting for a 100y old piece
of steel to finally fail (and cause a huge forest fire) would _not_ fly
around here. There is a very strong "We deliver quality. Period." spirit
permeating the place, which I like a lot ;-)

Heck, the Zurich waterworks are replacing larger water pipes with smaller
ones long before any replacement was needed. Why? Because large industry
(which used lots of water) moved out of the city, water throughput went
down, which means dwell time of the water in the pipes goes up which is
not good for water quality at the recipients faucet. So the big pipes
got replaced with smaller ones to keep water quality where it is supposed
to be.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419247 is a reply to message #419240] Mon, 20 February 2023 12:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 17:46:24 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 19:54:42 GMT
>>> scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>>>
>>>> However, there will need to be an usage tracking and cost allocation
>>>> mechanism, per spot; and in a non-gated parking solution, some form
>>>> of security element.
>>>
>>> Card scanner on the socket, job done.
>>>
>>
>> Right. It would have to be separately metered anyway, in this case. How
>> about the electric utility installs then and charges a cent or so
>> surcharge per KwH over their normal rates to amortize the cost. The model
>> would be the old Bell System.
>
> That sounds like a working model - here it's the grid company that
> installs and owns the public chargers so much the same model.

Just to note that you've increased the cost substantially over the
"just a cord and plug is necesssary" idea.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419248 is a reply to message #419213] Mon, 20 February 2023 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2023-02-19, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner and
>>>> get a full charge in five minutes.
>>>
>>> Why would you want to do that if you have a charger where the car
>>> is parked ?
>>
>> We would be the last people to get one. I now live in a condo complex (with
>> a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone going to
>> put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just a few,
>> because everyone would need one.
>
> It's just a bit of wiring. If you put one in, how hard is it, to put
> chargers in all the spaces?

Probably not much, but be sure to talk to your electrician first and
find out what it's going to cost. The job won't be cheap.

> Everyone doesn't need one all at once, but at some point you'd just
> decide it's time to wire all the parking spaces.

While you're at it, have your electrician check the main breakers
for the complex. You might have to talk to your local hydro company
about an upgrade to your feed. If you're fast you might be able to
get it done before Hydro realizes they'll have to upgrade the grid
as other complexes try to re-wire.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419249 is a reply to message #419228] Mon, 20 February 2023 13:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2023-02-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:37:39 -0500
> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've been reading, after the batteries become too worn out for the car
>> they are in, they can still be used for electricity storage.
>
> Sure - consider the 24kWh Leafs that get down to about 10kWh and
> become too short range to be useful, that's still 10kWh of storage and an
> EOL secondhand Leaf is probably the cheapest way of getting that much
> battery complete with charging circuits - wheels to push it around is a
> bonus. The cheapest per kWh battery I've seen was a crash written off MG5
> with a 60kWh battery going for a few thousand (I forget exactly how much,
> well less than 10,000 anyway).

Maybe we'll see a resurgence of people with cars up on blocks
in the front yard...

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419255 is a reply to message #419249] Mon, 20 February 2023 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
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On 2023-02-20, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-02-19, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 13:37:39 -0500
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been reading, after the batteries become too worn out for the car
>>> they are in, they can still be used for electricity storage.
>>
>> Sure - consider the 24kWh Leafs that get down to about 10kWh and
>> become too short range to be useful, that's still 10kWh of storage and an
>> EOL secondhand Leaf is probably the cheapest way of getting that much
>> battery complete with charging circuits - wheels to push it around is a
>> bonus. The cheapest per kWh battery I've seen was a crash written off MG5
>> with a 60kWh battery going for a few thousand (I forget exactly how much,
>> well less than 10,000 anyway).
>
> Maybe we'll see a resurgence of people with cars up on blocks
> in the front yard...
>

And a hound dawg on a chain yapping from the back seat when someone
approaches. I think that is was well after 1950 that cars started to
appear again on this Island (after the war)

I well remember in the 1960's when all the present nonsense was proposed
before.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419256 is a reply to message #419248] Mon, 20 February 2023 13:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3866
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> On 2023-02-19, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 06:19:51 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > It will be when I can pull into a charging station around the corner and
>>>> > get a full charge in five minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Why would you want to do that if you have a charger where the car
>>>> is parked ?
>>>
>>> We would be the last people to get one. I now live in a condo complex (with
>>> a lot of other people with the same potential problem.) Is someone going to
>>> put a charger by each parking spot? It’s no good to put in just a few,
>>> because everyone would need one.
>>
>> It's just a bit of wiring. If you put one in, how hard is it, to put
>> chargers in all the spaces?
>
> Probably not much, but be sure to talk to your electrician first and
> find out what it's going to cost. The job won't be cheap.
>
>> Everyone doesn't need one all at once, but at some point you'd just
>> decide it's time to wire all the parking spaces.
>
> While you're at it, have your electrician check the main breakers
> for the complex. You might have to talk to your local hydro company
> about an upgrade to your feed. If you're fast you might be able to
> get it done before Hydro realizes they'll have to upgrade the grid
> as other complexes try to re-wire.

In any "complex" a private company is going to come in and install
for profit chargers.

--
Dan Espen
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419257 is a reply to message #419247] Mon, 20 February 2023 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 17:38:44 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Just to note that you've increased the cost substantially over the
> "just a cord and plug is necesssary" idea.

Sure but I've added an income stream to make people want to spend
the money setting it up.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419258 is a reply to message #419246] Mon, 20 February 2023 14:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Spencer is currently offline  Mike Spencer
Messages: 995
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:

> I currently live in Switzerland....
> [....]
>
> Heck, the Zurich waterworks are replacing larger water pipes with smaller
> ones long before any replacement was needed. Why? Because large industry
> (which used lots of water) moved out of the city, water throughput went
> down, which means dwell time of the water in the pipes goes up which is
> not good for water quality at the recipients faucet. So the big pipes
> got replaced with smaller ones to keep water quality where it is supposed
> to be.

That would be far in excess of "quite remarkaable" in Leftpondia.

Wasting shareholders' money. It's publicly owned? Buncha commie
pinkos. Everybody know private ownership is more efficient. Water
quality at the faucet is an externality so this wasteful...[SMACK]

[SMACK][SMACK][SMACK]

Sorry about that, channeling Milton Friedman or something. I'm okay
now.

I've encountered individual tradesmen and small family businesses that
work like that. Not (now privatized) Nova Scotia Power and not any
corporation I ever heard about.


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419259 is a reply to message #419258] Mon, 20 February 2023 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1140
Registered: February 2013
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Senior Member
On 2023-02-20, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>
>> I currently live in Switzerland....
>> [....]
>>
>> Heck, the Zurich waterworks are replacing larger water pipes with smaller
>> ones long before any replacement was needed. Why? Because large industry
>> (which used lots of water) moved out of the city, water throughput went
>> down, which means dwell time of the water in the pipes goes up which is
>> not good for water quality at the recipients faucet. So the big pipes
>> got replaced with smaller ones to keep water quality where it is supposed
>> to be.
>
> That would be far in excess of "quite remarkaable" in Leftpondia.
>
> Wasting shareholders' money. It's publicly owned? Buncha commie
> pinkos. Everybody know private ownership is more efficient. Water
> quality at the faucet is an externality so this wasteful...[SMACK]
>
> [SMACK][SMACK][SMACK]
>
> Sorry about that, channeling Milton Friedman or something. I'm okay
> now.
>
> I've encountered individual tradesmen and small family businesses that
> work like that. Not (now privatized) Nova Scotia Power and not any
> corporation I ever heard about.
>
>


Private companies preform better, but need to be controlled for the
public good Example; Trains. Train companies in the UK were privatised
but public money had to be provided to repair lines, etc. There is a lot
of prancing about to pretend that didn't happen

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419260 is a reply to message #419258] Mon, 20 February 2023 16:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexander Schreiber is currently offline  Alexander Schreiber
Messages: 8
Registered: November 2012
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Junior Member
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>
>> I currently live in Switzerland....
>> [....]
>>
>> Heck, the Zurich waterworks are replacing larger water pipes with smaller
>> ones long before any replacement was needed. Why? Because large industry
>> (which used lots of water) moved out of the city, water throughput went
>> down, which means dwell time of the water in the pipes goes up which is
>> not good for water quality at the recipients faucet. So the big pipes
>> got replaced with smaller ones to keep water quality where it is supposed
>> to be.
>
> That would be far in excess of "quite remarkaable" in Leftpondia.
>
> Wasting shareholders' money. It's publicly owned? Buncha commie
> pinkos. Everybody know private ownership is more efficient. Water
> quality at the faucet is an externality so this wasteful...[SMACK]

Hehe, yeah, Zurich waterworks is a public utility owned by the city of
Zurich. And those folks are notorious overachievers anyway. Best example:
They don't chlorinate the water, because the one time they tried this
many years back, they got _such_ a backlash from the public that they
put this option firmly off the table forever. So they use ozone to
disinfect the water (made freshly onsite as needed because nobody in
their right mind _stores_ that stuff). Their old water/ozone mixer was
the typical design you'd expect: an alternating path looking like two
interlocked combs. But they had doubts about mixing efficiency, so they
commissioned (IIRC) ETH Zurich (think Harvard/MIT but Switzerland)
to analyse the thing using computational fluid dynamics. Well, what do
you know, there _where_ zones in the mixer where the ozone/water intermix
was quite bit below expectations.
That won't do. So they again commissioned ETH Zurich to use, again,
computational fluid dynamics to design a mixer that is as perfect
as possible. The results looks like some wild coral growth, but it
apparently guarantees that at worst, the ozone/water intermix will
be above 95% or so of perfection.
The net result is that the drinking water in Zurich is not only
guaranteed safe to drink, it also tends to be of better quality
than various bottled water types - the only reason for me to buy
bottled water around here is to have a few small bottles in the
car when travelling.

> I've encountered individual tradesmen and small family businesses that
> work like that. Not (now privatized) Nova Scotia Power and not any
> corporation I ever heard about.

They generally take great pride in what they do and focus on delivering
reliable service at top quality. I happily pay (the rather reasonable)
prices for that.

One of the things Switzerland eventually realized (it wasn't always
like this) is: It's a beautiful small country, if we fuck it up with
pollution & trash, we only shoot ourselves in the foot. Having
developed from a small poor country to a small rich country sure
helped with making that work.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419264 is a reply to message #419246] Mon, 20 February 2023 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3151
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
> I currently live in Switzerland. The place both has good regulations _and_
> enforcement of same. Crap like PG&E literally waiting for a 100y old piece
> of steel to finally fail (and cause a huge forest fire) would _not_ fly
> around here. There is a very strong "We deliver quality. Period." spirit
> permeating the place, which I like a lot ;-)

.... note in the past PG&E also got Public Utility Commission to approve
higher rates to cover brush&fire remediation ... and then got fined for
using it for dividends and executive bonuses ... after several fires ...
always wondered if they also then got PUC approval for higher rates to
cover the fines ... and also whether there were any clawbacks of the
dividends and executive bonuses.

also go back to the 50s&60s in northeast railroad corridors where they
were paying dividends, inflated executive compensation and bonuses
(including using track maintenance funds). I remember communiting by
rail in Bostin area in the 70s ... where there were 5mph speed limits
and the old timers would talk about it having been 60mph. Also areas of
track refeared to as freight car graveyards ... so many abandoned after
repeated derailments (in contrast as a kid out west seeing rail
maintenance crews coming through at least every other year).

.... skimming infrastructure funds apparently is now deeply entrenched in
the culture

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419268 is a reply to message #419260] Tue, 21 February 2023 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1140
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2023-02-20, Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>>
>> Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> writes:
>>
>>> I currently live in Switzerland....
>>> [....]
>>>
>>> Heck, the Zurich waterworks are replacing larger water pipes with smaller
> guaranteed safe to drink, it also tends to be of better quality
> than various bottled water types - the only reason for me to buy
> bottled water around here is to have a few small bottles in the
> car when travelling.
>
>

I like dealing with companies so small that you can knock a door, and talk
directly to the Boss, or someone that deals directlly with the bank, and
receive information from the customers.


> They generally take great pride in what they do and focus on delivering
> reliable service at top quality. I happily pay (the rather reasonable)
> prices for that.

leave the swiss alone,, they think they are perfect, and like a retarded
child, should be left that way.

>
> One of the things Switzerland eventually realized (it wasn't always
> like this) is: It's a beautiful small country, if we fuck it up with
> pollution & trash, we only shoot ourselves in the foot. Having
> developed from a small poor country to a small rich country sure
> helped with making that work.
>
> Kind regards,
> Alex.

VERY expensive. I know of a lady that commutes to Geneva from central france.
One of my daughters was nearly seduced by politics and was asked to visit
somewhere in Helvatia to organize a sort of political system there, from
where she travelled to Italy, heaving a sigh of relief as they crossed the
border. No wonder the Italians hung one of their dictators by the heels.
I like Italy.


--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419270 is a reply to message #419264] Tue, 21 February 2023 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
Messages: 3151
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> ... skimming infrastructure funds apparently is now deeply entrenched in
> the culture

Rail Unions Warned Us: Greed is Dangerous
https://www.counterpunch.org/2023/02/21/rail-unions-warned-u s-greed-is-dangerous/
In contract negotiations last year, they denounced a business model
known as "precision scheduled railroading," which aims to boost profits
by running bigger and faster trains with smaller crews. The practice has
even earned a nickname among rail workers: "positive shareholder
reaction." Combined with a lack of guaranteed sick pay, this created
dangerous conditions for overworked rail employees.

.... but didn't mention the track maintenance issue ... which has been
around for at least decades ... and then going back to mid-1800s
http://phys.org/news/2012-01-railroad-hyperbole-echoes-dot-c om-frenzy.html
https://www.amazon.com/Railroaded-Transcontinentals-Making-A merica-ebook/dp/B0051GST1U

.... a few archived post about "railroaded"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#42 Future of support for telephone rotary dial ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#73 Royal Pardon For Turing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#76 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#62 Railroaded
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#57 The Myth of Work-Life Balance

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419280 is a reply to message #419230] Wed, 22 February 2023 06:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>>> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>>
>> But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
>
> Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
> grow charging spots.
>
Eventually, yes.

We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.

Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.

I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.

On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
Which means dino juice.

Andy
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419281 is a reply to message #419193] Wed, 22 February 2023 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 19/02/2023 04:34, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> You car has been charging for several hours, was almost certainly
> nowhere near fully discharged when you park (unless you drive hundreds of
> kilometres every day) and is now fully charged or nearly so. You did choose
> a car with range suitable to your needs I presume.
>
> But in 45 years of adult life I have*never* had such a call.

I have. Medical (dying relative) and domestic (burst pipe).

I expect another dying relative fairly soon. She's past 90.

Andy
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419282 is a reply to message #419202] Wed, 22 February 2023 06:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
> wi-fi.

You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.

WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.

Andy
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419283 is a reply to message #419282] Wed, 22 February 2023 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1140
Registered: February 2013
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Senior Member
On 2023-02-22, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
>> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
>> wi-fi.
>
> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.
>
> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.
>
> Andy


Agreed. I tried putting in security cameras connected by WiFi and
had to retro fit wires. Works ok now.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419284 is a reply to message #419282] Wed, 22 February 2023 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
Messages: 3866
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 19/02/2023 17:54, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Planning ahead. Don’t you know that isn’t allowed! Actually I’m thinking of
>> all the twisted pair I pulled in my old house that was made obsolete by
>> wi-fi.
>
> You must have a small house, or one made out of exactly the right
> materials. WiFi is dodgy in parts of our house, and I made damn sure I
> had a duct run to my garden office. Twisted pair gives me a reliable
> gigabit; one day I'll run a fibre when that isn't enough.
>
> WiFi won't give you those speeds reliably at any distance.

I put in a second router.
The entire house is covered.

--
Dan Espen
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419287 is a reply to message #419280] Wed, 22 February 2023 09:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4217
Registered: February 2012
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Senior Member
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>>>> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>>>
>>> But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
>>
>> Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
>> grow charging spots.
>>
> Eventually, yes.
>
> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>
> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>
> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>
> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
> Which means dino juice.

Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?

The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
the current high-speed chargers.

As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
time become shorter.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419294 is a reply to message #419287] Wed, 22 February 2023 11:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Johnny Billquist

On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>>>> > depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>>>>
>>>> But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
>>>
>>> Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
>>> grow charging spots.
>>>
>> Eventually, yes.
>>
>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>
>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>
>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>
>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>> Which means dino juice.
>
> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>
> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
> the current high-speed chargers.
>
> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
> time become shorter.

Another simple search: tesla model 3 range

gives 272 miles as some kind of official number. Seems a bit short if
you want to drive 400 miles...

Johnny
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419295 is a reply to message #419294] Wed, 22 February 2023 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4217
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2023-02-19 21:28, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> > Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> 45 minutes would be perfect, considering that if my battery is that
>>>> >> depleted I am doing a long trip, and I absolutely must take a rest.
>>>> >
>>>> > But if it's 45 minutes, there'll be a queue to even get plugged in ...
>>>>
>>>> Today, yes. Eventually, no. Stations are mandated here to evolve and
>>>> grow charging spots.
>>>>
>>> Eventually, yes.
>>>
>>> We get away with not having quite enough fuel pumps, and queues at peak
>>> times. The queues are only a few minutes. Say three cars' worth.
>>>
>>> Three cars' worth at 45 minutes each hurts.
>>>
>>> I've pointed out to my wife that an EV would be great for her. There's a
>>> spare slot in the breaker box in the garage waiting for a charger, we
>>> have private parking, and she never goes more than a few miles - the
>>> longest day she's ever likely to do is under 150 miles.
>>>
>>> On the other hand my mother is 150 miles away, and her sister 400 miles
>>> away, and there's no guarantee that we could get a charge at the end of
>>> that journey. So we need a car with the ability to do a quick refill.
>>> Which means dino juice.
>>
>> Are y'all incapable of a simple google search?
>>
>> The Model 3, today, charges to 80% in 25 minutes with
>> the current high-speed chargers.
>>
>> As battery and charger technology improves, so will the charge
>> time become shorter.
>
> Another simple search: tesla model 3 range
>
> gives 272 miles as some kind of official number. Seems a bit short if
> you want to drive 400 miles...

So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
will confirm.

In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
battery-electric vehicles.
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419296 is a reply to message #419295] Wed, 22 February 2023 13:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GreyMaus[1] is currently offline  GreyMaus[1]
Messages: 1140
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
> will confirm.
>
> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
> battery-electric vehicles.
>
Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
all the unrenewable batteries that are going to have to dumped in the
years to come, and the useless remainders of those vehicles. The whole
plan to replace fossil fuels with renewables is fantasy, tosh.

The only road forwards is heavy tax on fossil fuels to eke out what is
remaining in the ground. Won't go down well with Bill Gates, with his
four private jets, or that ilk


--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?
Re: After the storm, hopefully [message #419297 is a reply to message #419296] Wed, 22 February 2023 14:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
scott is currently offline  scott
Messages: 4217
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
maus <maus@mail.com> writes:
> On 2023-02-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>> Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>>> On 2023-02-22 15:52, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>>> > On 19/02/2023 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> So you stop and have lunch for 25 minutes along the way. Various
>> Tesla variants can reach 405 miles (Model S), as a google search
>> will confirm.
>>
>> In any case, choosing a vehicle based upon a one-time might-happen seems
>> counterintuitive - like someone is reaching for a reason to dislike
>> battery-electric vehicles.
>>
> Damn right I am opposed to battery-electric vehicles. When I think of
> all the unrenewable batteries

Stop there. Where do you get the impression that Li-ion batteries
cannot be recycled? The rest of your rant is elided as irrelevent.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/recycled-lithium- ion-batteries-can-perform-better-than-new-ones/
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