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Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417641 is a reply to message #417638] Sun, 13 November 2022 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
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Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:57:02 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 13 Nov 2022 17:02:05 GMT
> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>> screens?.
>
> I was using punched cards regularly in the mid 1970s, by the late
> 1970s they were almost but not quite gone - systems still supported them
> but hardly anyone used them for anything other than notes.
>
I came in at the end of punchcards; we'd have to book a slot at a vdu to
do line editing.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417643 is a reply to message #417641] Sun, 13 November 2022 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: snipeco.2

Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:57:02 +0000
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 13 Nov 2022 17:02:05 GMT
>> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced
>>> by computer screens?.
>>
>> I was using punched cards regularly in the mid 1970s, by the late
>> 1970s they were almost but not quite gone - systems still supported them
>> but hardly anyone used them for anything other than notes.
>>
> I came in at the end of punchcards; we'd have to book a slot at a vdu to
> do line editing.

Punch cards were still in use in ~1979 at a car dealership near me.
They were used for spare parts stock control, 1 card per item of stock.
(Gurl znqr rkpryyrag ebnpurf.)

--
^Ï^. My pet rock Gordon just is.

~ Slava Ukraini ~
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417648 is a reply to message #417638] Sun, 13 November 2022 17:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2022 17:02:05 GMT
> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>> screens?.
>
> I was using punched cards regularly in the mid 1970s, by the late
> 1970s they were almost but not quite gone - systems still supported them
> but hardly anyone used them for anything other than notes.
>

They kind of slipped away without anyone noticing. I don’t recall exactly
when, but a professor asked me to convert his research results on cards
into something usable and I had to look all over the city for someone with
a card reader to get them copied to tape, and I was a bit surprised by how
hard I had to search.

PPOE had an IBM 3505/3525 reader punch for a long time, perhaps into the
80s. They may still have it, but I don’t think it was ever used.

--
Pete
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417651 is a reply to message #417636] Sun, 13 November 2022 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
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On 2022-11-13, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:

> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
> screens?.

I was using cards well into the '80s, although in the end they were
used primarily for JCL and small data decks, the large files having
moved to disk. Part of this was inertia, e.g. a reluctance to change
a system that worked. Another part was cost - computer terminals
were available in the '70s, but you could buy a lot of cards for the
several thousand (1970s) dollars that one terminal cost at the time.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417664 is a reply to message #417651] Mon, 14 November 2022 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Mark Triggers

>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>> screens?.

I was using this deck to IPL the main UK Air Traffic Control computer system (IBM 9020 running NAS - no screens) into the 90's. Last punch card IPL was on 6th April 1990. Next day it was a new system using screens.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/B3FTLov5Y2YRhWE49
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417690 is a reply to message #417608] Mon, 14 November 2022 12:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 12/11/2022 19:25, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> The 6809 only has a 16-bit address bus, and even the severely
> crippeled 8088 can address a megabyte (insert fear and loathing
> about just_how_).

My first home computer was a Dragon with a 6809. I quite liked that one too.

I'm still mystified as to why the 8086 didn't shift the segment register
4 more bits. It would have made a lot of difference to the life of the
devices.

Andy
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417695 is a reply to message #417594] Mon, 14 November 2022 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Vir Campestris

On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is stored
> with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.

It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
errors, but not so many it won't run at all.

I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've also
heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to make a
mistkae...

Andy
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417700 is a reply to message #417695] Mon, 14 November 2022 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is stored
>> with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>
> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
> handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
> errors, but not so many it won't run at all.

We used to have a little ISA card with a single (debounced) button that could
be pressed to generate an NMI; later we had a similar pci card.
Unfortunately, PCIe is serial, so there's no system error pin to toggle.

There are often chipset specific mechanisms for triggering NMI from
software to test fault injection.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417716 is a reply to message #417695] Mon, 14 November 2022 15:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is stored
>> with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>
> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
> handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
> errors, but not so many it won't run at all.
>
> I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've also
> heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to make a
> mistkae...
>

I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC) single-bit
errors and detects multiple-bit errors.

--
Pete
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417721 is a reply to message #417716] Mon, 14 November 2022 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Mon, 14 Nov 2022 13:51:40 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is
>>> stored with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>>
>> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
>> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
>> handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
>> errors, but not so many it won't run at all.
>>
>> I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've
>> also heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to
>> make a mistkae...
>>
>>
> I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC)
> single-bit errors and detects multiple-bit errors.

We had that on our ICL 2900 in 1976. The manufacturer's operating system
(VME/K) handled a single bit error by rewriting the 64 bits, not logging
anything, and continuing. When the inevitable two bit error occurred, it
crashed.

When we put a third party system in, it generated an error loog each day
that identified the suspect board and chip.



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417723 is a reply to message #417716] Mon, 14 November 2022 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is stored
>>> with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>>
>> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
>> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
>> handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
>> errors, but not so many it won't run at all.
>>
>> I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've also
>> heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to make a
>> mistkae...
>>
>
> I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC) single-bit
> errors and detects multiple-bit errors.

IOW, SECDED (single error correction, double error detection)
and IBM had invented chipkill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipkill
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417725 is a reply to message #417603] Mon, 14 November 2022 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robin Vowels is currently offline  Robin Vowels
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On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 5:08:31 AM UTC+11, Thomas Koenig wrote:

>> Byte-addressable and variable length instructions was the
>> future and IBM got it right, if not being the first one to
>> do so.
..
> The /360 was indeed groundbreaking.
..
Only in the sense of a family of computers having the same instruction set.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417727 is a reply to message #417690] Tue, 15 November 2022 01:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Thomas Koenig

Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> schrieb:
> On 12/11/2022 19:25, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> The 6809 only has a 16-bit address bus, and even the severely
>> crippeled 8088 can address a megabyte (insert fear and loathing
>> about just_how_).
>
> My first home computer was a Dragon with a 6809. I quite liked that one too.

I remember looking at articles about that one. It never caught on
in Germany, the C64 just dominated too much. Its floating point
arithmetic was dead slow, though.

As for the processor: It fell into a crack between the
higher-performance 16-bit CPUs and the lower-price 8-bit CPUs.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417754 is a reply to message #417716] Tue, 15 November 2022 13:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC) single-bit
> errors and detects multiple-bit errors.

more than that for some time, from archived 6sep2001 afc post, 3090
(mid/late 80s) had 64/80 ECC memory, detect (up to) all 16bit errors and
correct (up to) all 15bit errors
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#13

other trivia: after joining IBM, I got asked to help with 370/195
hyperthreading ... hypertreading mention in this post about
end of acs/360
https://people.cs.clemson.edu/~mark/acs_end.html

195 out-of-order, but no branch-prediction and speculative execution, so
conditional branches drained pipeline ... and most codes ran at half 195
rated speed. simulating multiprocessor with two i-streams (running at
half rated speed) could keep execution units busy ... modulo MVT/MVS
claimed two-processor was 1.2-1.5 throughput of single processor
(because of multiprocessor software overhead and lock contention).

they also said that big difference between 360/195 and 370/195 (in
addition to the few new instructions) was adding 370 hardware
instruction retry ... 195 had so many circuits that mean-time between a
system transient hardware error was a few hrs.

project was canceled when decision was made to add virtual memory to all
370s (and it wasn't justified to do it for 195). trivia: decade ago, i
was asked if I could track down the virtual memory decision ... archived
afc post from decade ago
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011d.html#73

.... basically MVT storage management was so bad that regions had to be
specified four times larger than actually used ... result was 1mbyte
370/165 typically only running four concurrent executing regions ... not
sufficient to keep it busy/justified. Going to virtual memory would
allow number of concurrent regions to be increased by four times with
little or no paging.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417791 is a reply to message #417651] Thu, 17 November 2022 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
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On 11/13/2022 8:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-13, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>> screens?.
>
> I was using cards well into the '80s, although in the end they were
> used primarily for JCL and small data decks, the large files having
> moved to disk. Part of this was inertia, e.g. a reluctance to change
> a system that worked. Another part was cost - computer terminals
> were available in the '70s, but you could buy a lot of cards for the
> several thousand (1970s) dollars that one terminal cost at the time.
>

The ad I remember was in a computer or electronics magazine. It asked
the question: "Are your programmers online???" The picture showed a
line (queue) of programmers waiting to get a chance to use a *single*
keypunch machine.

The ad (of course) was an attempt to convince employers that, though VDU
terminals were expensive, it was *more* expensive to force your
programmers to continue using punch cards...


--

Charles Richmond


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Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417794 is a reply to message #417716] Thu, 17 November 2022 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charles Richmond is currently offline  Charles Richmond
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On 11/14/2022 2:51 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is stored
>>> with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>>
>> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
>> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test the
>> handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number of
>> errors, but not so many it won't run at all.
>>
>> I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've also
>> heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to make a
>> mistkae...
>>
>
> I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC) single-bit
> errors and detects multiple-bit errors.
>

ECC used to be called Hamming code, after Richard Hamming, the inventor
of Hamming code.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamming_code

--

Charles Richmond


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Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417799 is a reply to message #417794] Thu, 17 November 2022 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 02:31:45 -0600, Charles Richmond wrote:

> On 11/14/2022 2:51 PM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 12/11/2022 14:06, Peter Flass wrote:
>>>> Back then memories were a lot flakier, although now I think data is
>>>> stored with lots of check bits that only the hardware sees.
>>>
>>> It's been like that for a while. I've used systems that would raise an
>>> NMI (non-maskable interrupt) for a parity error. It's a *** to test
>>> the handler, you need a system that will give you a reasonable number
>>> of errors, but not so many it won't run at all.
>>>
>>> I've heard some systems even have error correcting memory. And I've
>>> also heard that the extra complexity may make them _more_ likely to
>>> make a mistkae...
>>>
>>>
>> I think most do these days. IBM mainframe memory corrects (IIRC)
>> single-bit errors and detects multiple-bit errors.
>>
>>
> ECC used to be called Hamming code, after Richard Hamming, the inventor
> of Hamming code.

Well, *some* ECC is Hamming.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417806 is a reply to message #417791] Thu, 17 November 2022 13:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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On 2022-11-17, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> On 11/13/2022 8:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-13, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>>> screens?.
>>
>> I was using cards well into the '80s, although in the end they were
>> used primarily for JCL and small data decks, the large files having
>> moved to disk. Part of this was inertia, e.g. a reluctance to change
>> a system that worked. Another part was cost - computer terminals
>> were available in the '70s, but you could buy a lot of cards for the
>> several thousand (1970s) dollars that one terminal cost at the time.
>
> The ad I remember was in a computer or electronics magazine. It asked
> the question: "Are your programmers online???" The picture showed a
> line (queue) of programmers waiting to get a chance to use a *single*
> keypunch machine.
>
> The ad (of course) was an attempt to convince employers that, though
> VDU terminals were expensive, it was *more* expensive to force your
> programmers to continue using punch cards...

Only in the long term, which managers are notorious for ignoring.
Besides, why should lowly programmers have access to such fancy
toys? That should be the sole domain of the beautiful people,
i.e. management.

When personal computers were first spreading, a PPOE purchased several.
There were three models available: a high-end one with a large screen
and lots of CPU power; an intermediate one; and the cheapo unit with
minimal hardware and a small screen. The managers, who barely used
them or even knew how, naturally got the high-end machines. We techies
got the intermediate model, while our poor data entry clerk, who pounded
away on it all day, got the cheapest model and spent her days squinting
at its small screen. (They really treated her like dirt. Several times
she stormed out of the office in tears. One day she never came back.)

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417807 is a reply to message #417806] Thu, 17 November 2022 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2022-11-17, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/13/2022 8:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-13, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>>>> screens?.
>>>
>>> I was using cards well into the '80s, although in the end they were
>>> used primarily for JCL and small data decks, the large files having
>>> moved to disk. Part of this was inertia, e.g. a reluctance to change
>>> a system that worked. Another part was cost - computer terminals
>>> were available in the '70s, but you could buy a lot of cards for the
>>> several thousand (1970s) dollars that one terminal cost at the time.
>>
>> The ad I remember was in a computer or electronics magazine. It asked
>> the question: "Are your programmers online???" The picture showed a
>> line (queue) of programmers waiting to get a chance to use a *single*
>> keypunch machine.
>>
>> The ad (of course) was an attempt to convince employers that, though
>> VDU terminals were expensive, it was *more* expensive to force your
>> programmers to continue using punch cards...
>
> Only in the long term, which managers are notorious for ignoring.
> Besides, why should lowly programmers have access to such fancy
> toys? That should be the sole domain of the beautiful people,
> i.e. management.
>

I visited the Sperry office in Clear Lake, Iowa around 1980.
At the Uni, we had dozens of ADM33a in the student labs, attached to a
quad of VAX-11/780's.

The Sperry programmers had to fight for a handful of mobile video
terminals on carts.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417845 is a reply to message #417636] Sat, 19 November 2022 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andreas Eder is currently offline  Andreas Eder
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On So 13 Nov 2022 at 17:02, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
> screens?.

When I started university in autumn of 1981 O had toe work with puncg
cards.
Next year I could use a glass tty.

'Andreas
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417859 is a reply to message #417806] Mon, 21 November 2022 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D.J. is currently offline  D.J.
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 18:37:50 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-17, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/13/2022 8:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-13, greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by computer
>>>> screens?.
>>>
>>> I was using cards well into the '80s, although in the end they were
>>> used primarily for JCL and small data decks, the large files having
>>> moved to disk. Part of this was inertia, e.g. a reluctance to change
>>> a system that worked. Another part was cost - computer terminals
>>> were available in the '70s, but you could buy a lot of cards for the
>>> several thousand (1970s) dollars that one terminal cost at the time.
>>
>> The ad I remember was in a computer or electronics magazine. It asked
>> the question: "Are your programmers online???" The picture showed a
>> line (queue) of programmers waiting to get a chance to use a *single*
>> keypunch machine.
>>
>> The ad (of course) was an attempt to convince employers that, though
>> VDU terminals were expensive, it was *more* expensive to force your
>> programmers to continue using punch cards...
>
> Only in the long term, which managers are notorious for ignoring.
> Besides, why should lowly programmers have access to such fancy
> toys? That should be the sole domain of the beautiful people,
> i.e. management.

The university I was at, got some brand new 386 computers in 1988/89.
They were for the graphics lab.

One professor told me to take one to his office. I told him to take a
flying leap to the moon.

He asked me if I knew who he was ? I replied, yes, someone tryng to
dstreal a computer from the computer lab.

My boss walked in just then, and asked me what was going on. I pointed
to the professor and said that thief wants me to take one of our brand
new computers to his office and I told him no.

The campus dean walke in and told the professor that if he moved one
of those computers to his office he would find himself out the door
and not come back.

I smiled at the professor. He left the computer lab.

And no, I didn't get fired. My boss bought me lunch that day.

> When personal computers were first spreading, a PPOE purchased several.
> There were three models available: a high-end one with a large screen
> and lots of CPU power; an intermediate one; and the cheapo unit with
> minimal hardware and a small screen. The managers, who barely used
> them or even knew how, naturally got the high-end machines. We techies
> got the intermediate model, while our poor data entry clerk, who pounded
> away on it all day, got the cheapest model and spent her days squinting
> at its small screen. (They really treated her like dirt. Several times
> she stormed out of the office in tears. One day she never came back.)

Same at most places I ever worked, except one. Any computer had to be
justified to the big boss at one job. He wanted finance and purchasing
to be happy. So most of them had 2 monitors and nice computers.

--
Jim
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #417871 is a reply to message #417648] Tue, 22 November 2022 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clark G is currently offline  Clark G
Messages: 69
Registered: January 2012
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Member
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:33377678.690071219.935255.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-septemb
er.org:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On 13 Nov 2022 17:02:05 GMT
>> greymaus <greymaus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>>
>>> When did stamped cards finish on computers, to be replaced by
>>> computer screens?.
>>
>> I was using punched cards regularly in the mid 1970s, by the
>> late
>> 1970s they were almost but not quite gone - systems still supported
>> them but hardly anyone used them for anything other than notes.
>>
>
> They kind of slipped away without anyone noticing. I don’t recall
> exactly when, but a professor asked me to convert his research results
> on cards into something usable and I had to look all over the city for
> someone with a card reader to get them copied to tape, and I was a bit
> surprised by how hard I had to search.
>
> PPOE had an IBM 3505/3525 reader punch for a long time, perhaps into
> the 80s. They may still have it, but I don’t think it was ever used.
>

In my first year of engineering at the University of British Columbia in
1980, I was in the last class of 'Introduction to Programming' to use
punch cards, programming in WATFIV (Waterloo's FORTRAN dialect).
I used terminals for the rest of my courses, but they still had a card
punch attached to the MTS mainframe for me to produce my resume on punch
cards when I graduated in 1983. I still have a box of cards in the crawl
space with that resume and other nostalgic bits.

--
Clark G
* take away the em's to reply
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #418875 is a reply to message #417540] Thu, 26 January 2023 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alan Bowler is currently offline  Alan Bowler
Messages: 185
Registered: July 2012
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Senior Member
On 2022-11-10 12:04 p.m., Tak To wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 8:40 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> think systems with 36-bit words that stored characters in 9 bits may have
>> called them bytes. “Characters” was the term of art earlier.
>
> The only system I know of that fits that description is Multics,
> and I don't remember how those 9-bit entities were called.

It was not just the Multics boxes. It was the whole line of
machines descended from the GE-600, (Honeywell 6000, DPS-8,
DPS-8000, DPS-9000 ...) Most ran Gcos-III, later Gcos-8, although
Dartmouth created DTSS for this architecture (from which came BASIC).

GE also had the MarkIII timesharing system, which is what
the GEnie service ran under.

There are still Gcos8 systems in production today although
they are emulating the instruction set using Itanium or Xeon
processors.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #418876 is a reply to message #418875] Thu, 26 January 2023 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Charlie Gibbs is currently offline  Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On 2023-01-26, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-11-10 12:04 p.m., Tak To wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2022 8:40 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>>
>>> think systems with 36-bit words that stored characters in 9 bits may have
>>> called them bytes. “Characters” was the term of art earlier.
>>
>> The only system I know of that fits that description is Multics,
>> and I don't remember how those 9-bit entities were called.
>
> It was not just the Multics boxes. It was the whole line of
> machines descended from the GE-600, (Honeywell 6000, DPS-8,
> DPS-8000, DPS-9000 ...) Most ran Gcos-III, later Gcos-8, although
> Dartmouth created DTSS for this architecture (from which came BASIC).
>
> GE also had the MarkIII timesharing system, which is what
> the GEnie service ran under.
>
> There are still Gcos8 systems in production today although
> they are emulating the instruction set using Itanium or Xeon
> processors.

The 36-bit Univac 1100 series originally stored six 6-bit Fieldata
characters in a word, but later models offered quarter-word (9-bit)
operations and supported ASCII that way.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Re: do some Americans write their 1's in this way ? [message #418877 is a reply to message #418876] Fri, 27 January 2023 01:27 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: songbird

Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-01-26, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> wrote:
....
>> It was not just the Multics boxes. It was the whole line of
>> machines descended from the GE-600, (Honeywell 6000, DPS-8,
>> DPS-8000, DPS-9000 ...) Most ran Gcos-III, later Gcos-8, although
>> Dartmouth created DTSS for this architecture (from which came BASIC).
>>
>> GE also had the MarkIII timesharing system, which is what
>> the GEnie service ran under.
>>
>> There are still Gcos8 systems in production today although
>> they are emulating the instruction set using Itanium or Xeon
>> processors.
>
> The 36-bit Univac 1100 series originally stored six 6-bit Fieldata
> characters in a word, but later models offered quarter-word (9-bit)
> operations and supported ASCII that way.

yes, i enjoyed writing assembler on those machines.
it spoiled me for many others.


songbird
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