| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417530 is a reply to message #417526] |
Thu, 10 November 2022 08:40   |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 19:04, D.J. wrote:
>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:07:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>> wrote:
>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> > the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> > come through those papers as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> >
>>>> > Charles Richmond
>>>>
>>>> Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>
>>> Does he? He was born in Australia and is a naturalized US
>>> citizen.
>>>
>>> (Note that I'm not defending him, his family, or Faux in any way).
>>
>> Last time I saw him on telly, it was on the BBC America and they
>> mentioned him and his kids were arguing on who would take over after
>> he died. And it looked to me like they were in London, England.
>> --
>> Jim
> Kids are British. He aint.
>
> He only has the Times and the Sun left in the UK, and he ruined both.
> Had to sell the rest after various scandals. Still owns Sky I think. But
> that's on the wane as the Internet takes over from terrestrial and
> satellite transmissions.
>
>
> All mass media is compltely pwned by various consortia of commercial and
> political interests. Many papers are nothing but cut and pasted press
> releases. Some include material cut an pasted from mere general
> newsfeeds like Reuters or Bloomberg.
That’s what those services are for, like AP or the lamented UPI. Looking
thru old newspapers shows that this was common since the invention of the
telegraph. You find occasional articles about a huge flood in China or
whatever buried on a back page, possibly as filler.
>
> But its all crap. If you want facts you cant rely on any of it.
>
>
--
Pete
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417531 is a reply to message #417528] |
Thu, 10 November 2022 08:40 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 19:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:07:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>> wrote:
>>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>> > On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> > <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> >> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> >> come through those papers as well.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Charles Richmond
>>>> >
>>>> > Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>>
>>>> Does he? He was born in Australia and is a naturalized US
>>>> citizen.
>>>>
>>>> (Note that I'm not defending him, his family, or Faux in any way).
>>>
>>> Last time I saw him on telly, it was on the BBC America and they
>>> mentioned him and his kids were arguing on who would take over after
>>> he died. And it looked to me like they were in London, England.
>>
>> On a visit, no doubt. Rupert lives in oz.
>
> I thought to check.
>
> "In 2003, Murdoch bought "Rosehearty", an 11 bedroom home on a 5-acre
> waterfront estate in Centre Island, New York. In May 2013, he purchased
> the Moraga Estate, an estate, vineyard and winery in Bel Air, Los
> Angeles, California. In 2019, Murdoch and his new wife Jerry Hall
> purchased Holmwood, an 18th-century house and estate in the English
> village of Binfield Heath, some 4 miles (6.4 km) north-east of Reading.
>
> In late 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was reported that Murdoch
> and Hall had been isolating in their Binfield Heath home for much of the
> year. He received his first COVID-19 vaccine in nearby Henley-on-Thames
> on 16 December."
>
> So it looks like he is UK or USA based these days
>
>
Really rich people can’t be said to “live” anywhere. Jokes about
earth-filled coffins aside, they flit around as the mood strikes them.
--
Pete
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417538 is a reply to message #417528] |
Thu, 10 November 2022 11:53 |
D.J.
Messages: 821
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:34:13 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 19:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:07:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>> wrote:
>>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>> > On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> > <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> >> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> >> come through those papers as well.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Charles Richmond
>>>> >
>>>> > Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>>
>>>> Does he? He was born in Australia and is a naturalized US
>>>> citizen.
>>>>
>>>> (Note that I'm not defending him, his family, or Faux in any way).
>>>
>>> Last time I saw him on telly, it was on the BBC America and they
>>> mentioned him and his kids were arguing on who would take over after
>>> he died. And it looked to me like they were in London, England.
>>
>> On a visit, no doubt. Rupert lives in oz.
>
> I thought to check.
>
> "In 2003, Murdoch bought "Rosehearty", an 11 bedroom home on a 5-acre
> waterfront estate in Centre Island, New York. In May 2013, he purchased
> the Moraga Estate, an estate, vineyard and winery in Bel Air, Los
> Angeles, California. In 2019, Murdoch and his new wife Jerry Hall
> purchased Holmwood, an 18th-century house and estate in the English
> village of Binfield Heath, some 4 miles (6.4 km) north-east of Reading.
>
> In late 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was reported that Murdoch
> and Hall had been isolating in their Binfield Heath home for much of the
> year. He received his first COVID-19 vaccine in nearby Henley-on-Thames
> on 16 December."
>
> So it looks like he is UK or USA based these days
Interesting he got the vaccine, while his Fox employees tell people to
not get it.
--
Jim
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417543 is a reply to message #417538] |
Thu, 10 November 2022 14:08 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-10, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:34:13 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> In late 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was reported that Murdoch
>> and Hall had been isolating in their Binfield Heath home for much of the
>> year. He received his first COVID-19 vaccine in nearby Henley-on-Thames
>> on 16 December."
>>
>> So it looks like he is UK or USA based these days
>
> Interesting he got the vaccine, while his Fox employees tell people to
> not get it.
"Do as I say, not as I do."
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417544 is a reply to message #417529] |
Thu, 10 November 2022 14:08 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-09, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>>>
>>> So that’s why you get upset at “they” with singular referent...?
>>
>> No, I'm just irritated by woke-speak. I'm not against a language
>> evolving - but I'm careful to point out the difference between
>> evolution and decay. What we really need is a new pronoun to
>> meet a newly-recognized requirement. This will extend English,
>> rather than increasing ambiguity (as if it isn't bad enough already).
>
> When I hear “they” I always think of someone like the woman with several
> personalities. I wonder how well “they” get along with each other.
I think that typically only one personality is active at a time.
Still, that wouldn't stop one personality from trying to undo the
actions of another personality. Sort of like political parties...
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417559 is a reply to message #417529] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 06:30 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/11/2022 13:40, Peter Flass wrote:
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-11-09, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>>>
>>> So that’s why you get upset at “they” with singular referent...?
>>
>> No, I'm just irritated by woke-speak. I'm not against a language
>> evolving - but I'm careful to point out the difference between
>> evolution and decay. What we really need is a new pronoun to
>> meet a newly-recognized requirement. This will extend English,
>> rather than increasing ambiguity (as if it isn't bad enough already).
>>
>
> When I hear “they” I always think of someone like the woman with several
> personalities. I wonder how well “they” get along with each other.
>
It was much simpler before feminisation. human beings were in general
men unless they had tits and a vagina, and this was in the context
vaguely relevant.
Like everything else, it's all become pointlessly complicated.
--
“A leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
“We did this ourselves.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417560 is a reply to message #417538] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 06:34 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/11/2022 16:53, D.J. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 10:34:13 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 09/11/2022 19:26, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 18:07:30 GMT, scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>>> >> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> >> <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> >>> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> >>> come through those papers as well.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Charles Richmond
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does he? He was born in Australia and is a naturalized US
>>>> > citizen.
>>>> >
>>>> > (Note that I'm not defending him, his family, or Faux in any way).
>>>>
>>>> Last time I saw him on telly, it was on the BBC America and they
>>>> mentioned him and his kids were arguing on who would take over after
>>>> he died. And it looked to me like they were in London, England.
>>>
>>> On a visit, no doubt. Rupert lives in oz.
>>
>> I thought to check.
>>
>> "In 2003, Murdoch bought "Rosehearty", an 11 bedroom home on a 5-acre
>> waterfront estate in Centre Island, New York. In May 2013, he purchased
>> the Moraga Estate, an estate, vineyard and winery in Bel Air, Los
>> Angeles, California. In 2019, Murdoch and his new wife Jerry Hall
>> purchased Holmwood, an 18th-century house and estate in the English
>> village of Binfield Heath, some 4 miles (6.4 km) north-east of Reading.
>>
>> In late 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, it was reported that Murdoch
>> and Hall had been isolating in their Binfield Heath home for much of the
>> year. He received his first COVID-19 vaccine in nearby Henley-on-Thames
>> on 16 December."
>>
>> So it looks like he is UK or USA based these days
>
> Interesting he got the vaccine, while his Fox employees tell people to
> not get it.
> --
> Jim
In a sense this is a fairly honest position. He has a news service, but
he doesn't run it personally. It is run for a specific audience for profit.
So it says what that audience wants to hear.
--
Canada is all right really, though not for the whole weekend.
"Saki"
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417561 is a reply to message #417544] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 06:45 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/11/2022 19:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-11-09, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>> > Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>>>>
>>>> So that’s why you get upset at “they” with singular referent...?
>>>
>>> No, I'm just irritated by woke-speak. I'm not against a language
>>> evolving - but I'm careful to point out the difference between
>>> evolution and decay. What we really need is a new pronoun to
>>> meet a newly-recognized requirement. This will extend English,
>>> rather than increasing ambiguity (as if it isn't bad enough already).
>>
>> When I hear “they” I always think of someone like the woman with several
>> personalities. I wonder how well “they” get along with each other.
>
> I think that typically only one personality is active at a time.
> Still, that wouldn't stop one personality from trying to undo the
> actions of another personality. Sort of like political parties...
>
"Schizophrenia as time division multiplexing"
Not sure if that's what it was, but I knew someone who would seamlessly
slip from paranoia 'that land rover is following us, its the GCHQ again'
to apparently normal with apparently no memory of the transition.
Of course since a human worldview is, in essence, an unprovable
inductive proposition, we are all capable of having more than one, and
we all live in some form of personal conspiracy theory.
I.e. we live in worlds comprising what we *think* is going on.
Manipulating those beliefs and assumptions is the business of left wing
politics, religion, marketing, propaganda, and latterly, 'black magic'.
More conservative politics busies itself solely with objective
externalities, so that what someone *meant* by what they said is not an
object for legal discussion.
Only what they *did*.
Far simpler. More efficient. One should not "seek to peer into men's
souls". Merely to regulate their public behaviour...
--
It is the folly of too many to mistake the echo of a London coffee-house
for the voice of the kingdom.
Jonathan Swift
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417562 is a reply to message #417470] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 10:26 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 11/8/2022 1:59 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-08, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/6/2022 8:18 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>
>>> Some people seem to look for opportunities to take offense.
>>
>> It's called "wearing your heart on your sleeve."
>
> My favourite example is Vancouver city councillor (and Pentecostal
> minister) Bernice Gerard. The beach around Point Grey, at the base
> of the cliffs below the University of British Columbia, is known as
> "Wreck Beach", and has been a favourite nude sunbathing spot for,
> well, forever. It's not easy to get to - you have to follow a steep,
> narrow, twisting path down a ravine, with a vertical drop of several
> hundred feet, to reach it. It's not the kind of place you find yourself
> in by accident. Yet in 1977 Ms. Gerard made the arduous journey so that
> she could enjoy the privilege of being offended by nudity and protest
> against it. You have to admire her dedication if nothing else.
>
> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>
“Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417563 is a reply to message #417562] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 10:56 |
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Originally posted by: greymaus
On 2022-11-11, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 11/8/2022 1:59 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-11-08, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/6/2022 8:18 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some people seem to look for opportunities to take offense.
>>>
>>> It's called "wearing your heart on your sleeve."
>>
>> My favourite example is Vancouver city councillor (and Pentecostal
>> minister) Bernice Gerard. The beach around Point Grey, at the base
>> of the cliffs below the University of British Columbia, is known as
>> "Wreck Beach", and has been a favourite nude sunbathing spot for,
>> well, forever. It's not easy to get to - you have to follow a steep,
>> narrow, twisting path down a ravine, with a vertical drop of several
>> hundred feet, to reach it. It's not the kind of place you find yourself
>> in by accident. Yet in 1977 Ms. Gerard made the arduous journey so that
>> she could enjoy the privilege of being offended by nudity and protest
>> against it. You have to admire her dedication if nothing else.
>>
>> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>>
>
> “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
>
> ― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
>
> --
>
> Charles Richmond
>
>
I have found over the years that there is an inverse relationship
between the urge to display their selves, and the pleasure of viewing
what is exposed.
--
greymausg@mail.com
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417572 is a reply to message #417563] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 18:00 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 11/11/2022 9:56 AM, greymaus wrote:
> On 2022-11-11, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> On 11/8/2022 1:59 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-08, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/6/2022 8:18 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Some people seem to look for opportunities to take offense.
>>>>
>>>> It's called "wearing your heart on your sleeve."
>>>
>>> My favourite example is Vancouver city councillor (and Pentecostal
>>> minister) Bernice Gerard. The beach around Point Grey, at the base
>>> of the cliffs below the University of British Columbia, is known as
>>> "Wreck Beach", and has been a favourite nude sunbathing spot for,
>>> well, forever. It's not easy to get to - you have to follow a steep,
>>> narrow, twisting path down a ravine, with a vertical drop of several
>>> hundred feet, to reach it. It's not the kind of place you find yourself
>>> in by accident. Yet in 1977 Ms. Gerard made the arduous journey so that
>>> she could enjoy the privilege of being offended by nudity and protest
>>> against it. You have to admire her dedication if nothing else.
>>>
>>> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>>>
>>
>> “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
>>
>> ― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
>>
>> --
>>
>> Charles Richmond
>>
>>
>
> I have found over the years that there is an inverse relationship
> between the urge to display their selves, and the pleasure of viewing
> what is exposed.
>
>
....it was the great law of compensation--the great law that regulates
Nature's heedless agents, and sees that when they make a mistake, they
shall at the self-same moment prevent that mistake from working evil
consequences. Behold, the same gust of wind that blows a lady's dress
aside, and exposes her ankle, fills your eyes so full of sand that you
can't see it. Marvellous are the works of Nature!
--- "Concerning the Conundrum" by Mark Twain
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417573 is a reply to message #417524] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 18:05 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 11/10/2022 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/11/2022 18:01, D.J. wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>> <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/6/2022 5:15 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 05/11/2022 20:41, D.J. wrote:
>>>> > On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:50:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >> On 05/11/2022 14:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:35:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> >>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 2022-11-04, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Leave "they" alone. It's plural.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> It’s grammatically plural, but that doesn’t stop it taking
>>>> >>>>> singular
>>>> >>>>> referent (just like ‘you’).
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> The use of they as a singular for unknown gender is old and very
>>>> >>>>>> common.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Indeed.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I've long seen it used when making a general reference which covers
>>>> >>>> any number of people, and I don't have much of a problem with that.
>>>> >>>> What's becoming more prevalent, though, is its use when referring
>>>> >>>> to a single specific person - and that doesn't sit well with me.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Mind you, anything that smells of "wokeness" sets off my alarm
>>>> >>>> bells.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thats terrible that you don't know woke means 'don't be stupid'.
>>>> >> And is only used by those who are....
>>>> >
>>>> > I didn't understand where you were coming from. But I get it now. Fox
>>>> > Entertaiment is your 'news' of choice. Because that is one of the
>>>> > originators of such nonsense.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jim
>>>>
>>>> Dearly beloved Jim., we don't get Fox news in the UK
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>> come through those papers as well.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Charles Richmond
>>
>> Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>> --
>> Jim
>
> Sadly all of the 'gossip "newspapers"in Britain' are now owned by large
> corporate left using organisations spreading the 'woke' meme as a way of
> selling more shit.
>
> The 'right' view is simply not profitable.
>
>
ISTM that some talking heads on TV said the Royals (including Queen
Elizabeth and King Charles III) take care *not* to get crossways with
the tabloids... because *too* many of the working class actually
*believe* there is some truth in the factless sensationalism that the
gossip rags publish.
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417577 is a reply to message #417538] |
Fri, 11 November 2022 19:52 |
Alan Bowler
Messages: 185
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-10 11:53 a.m., D.J. wrote:
>
> Interesting he got the vaccine, while his Fox employees tell people to
> not get it.
Not only was Fox saying not to get the vaccine, Fox REQUIRED all its
employees to get the vaccine. I.e. Tucker and Hannity while spewing
lies about how dangerous the vaccine might be had already been
vaccinated.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417591 is a reply to message #417573] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 06:12 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 11/11/2022 23:05, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 09/11/2022 18:01, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>> <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> On 11/6/2022 5:15 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> > On 05/11/2022 20:41, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >> On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:50:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> >> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>> On 05/11/2022 14:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:35:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> >>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On 2022-11-04, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Leave "they" alone. It's plural.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> It’s grammatically plural, but that doesn’t stop it taking
>>>> >>>>>> singular
>>>> >>>>>> referent (just like ‘you’).
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> The use of they as a singular for unknown gender is old and very
>>>> >>>>>>> common.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Indeed.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> I've long seen it used when making a general reference which
>>>> >>>>> covers
>>>> >>>>> any number of people, and I don't have much of a problem with
>>>> >>>>> that.
>>>> >>>>> What's becoming more prevalent, though, is its use when referring
>>>> >>>>> to a single specific person - and that doesn't sit well with me.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Mind you, anything that smells of "wokeness" sets off my alarm
>>>> >>>>> bells.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Thats terrible that you don't know woke means 'don't be stupid'.
>>>> >>> And is only used by those who are....
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I didn't understand where you were coming from. But I get it now. Fox
>>>> >> Entertaiment is your 'news' of choice. Because that is one of the
>>>> >> originators of such nonsense.
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > Dearly beloved Jim., we don't get Fox news in the UK
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> come through those papers as well.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Charles Richmond
>>>
>>> Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>> --
>>> Jim
>>
>> Sadly all of the 'gossip "newspapers"in Britain' are now owned by
>> large corporate left using organisations spreading the 'woke' meme as
>> a way of selling more shit.
>>
>> The 'right' view is simply not profitable.
>>
>>
>
> ISTM that some talking heads on TV said the Royals (including Queen
> Elizabeth and King Charles III) take care *not* to get crossways with
> the tabloids... because *too* many of the working class actually
> *believe* there is some truth in the factless sensationalism that the
> gossip rags publish.
>
>
That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
their lives a misery.
But a girl with her mammaries hanging out is at least harmless fun.
Stuff is *believed* by the middle classes, who think that being able to
read gives them access to some kind of superior knowledge.
And papers such as in the USA the NY times, and in the UK the Guardian,
pander to their primped puritan patronising pretentiousnesses by
printing articles hinting how stupid the plebs are, who read tabloids.
And why they shouldn't really be allowed to vote.
--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
—Soren Kierkegaard
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417596 is a reply to message #417591] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 10:30 |
D.J.
Messages: 821
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 11/11/2022 23:05, Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 09/11/2022 18:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> > On 11/6/2022 5:15 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> >> On 05/11/2022 20:41, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:50:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> >>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>> On 05/11/2022 14:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:35:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> >>>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> On 2022-11-04, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Leave "they" alone. It's plural.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Its grammatically plural, but that doesnt stop it taking
>>>> >>>>>>> singular
>>>> >>>>>>> referent (just like you).
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> The use of they as a singular for unknown gender is old and very
>>>> >>>>>>>> common.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> I've long seen it used when making a general reference which
>>>> >>>>>> covers
>>>> >>>>>> any number of people, and I don't have much of a problem with
>>>> >>>>>> that.
>>>> >>>>>> What's becoming more prevalent, though, is its use when referring
>>>> >>>>>> to a single specific person - and that doesn't sit well with me.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Mind you, anything that smells of "wokeness" sets off my alarm
>>>> >>>>>> bells.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Thats terrible that you don't know woke means 'don't be stupid'.
>>>> >>>> And is only used by those who are....
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I didn't understand where you were coming from. But I get it now. Fox
>>>> >>> Entertaiment is your 'news' of choice. Because that is one of the
>>>> >>> originators of such nonsense.
>>>> >>> --
>>>> >>> Jim
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Dearly beloved Jim., we don't get Fox news in the UK
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> > the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> > come through those papers as well.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> >
>>>> > Charles Richmond
>>>>
>>>> Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>> --
>>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Sadly all of the 'gossip "newspapers"in Britain' are now owned by
>>> large corporate left using organisations spreading the 'woke' meme as
>>> a way of selling more shit.
>>>
>>> The 'right' view is simply not profitable.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ISTM that some talking heads on TV said the Royals (including Queen
>> Elizabeth and King Charles III) take care *not* to get crossways with
>> the tabloids... because *too* many of the working class actually
>> *believe* there is some truth in the factless sensationalism that the
>> gossip rags publish.
>>
>>
> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
> their lives a misery.
Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
everything they read in tabloids.
--
Jim
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417599 is a reply to message #417591] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 10:38 |
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Originally posted by: gareth evans
On 12/11/2022 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
> And papers such as in the USA the NY times, and in the UK the Guardian,
> pander to their primped puritan patronising pretentiousnesses by
> printing articles hinting how stupid the plebs are, who read tabloids.
> And why they shouldn't really be allowed to vote.
That remonds me of the old TV ads for Colgate toothpaste with MFP ...
Made For Proles.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417611 is a reply to message #417561] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 14:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 10/11/2022 19:08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-11-10, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When I hear “they” I always think of someone like the woman with several
>>> personalities. I wonder how well “they” get along with each other.
>>
>> I think that typically only one personality is active at a time.
>> Still, that wouldn't stop one personality from trying to undo the
>> actions of another personality. Sort of like political parties...
>
> "Schizophrenia as time division multiplexing"
Wyman Guin's story _Beyond Bedlam_ (originally printed in the
August 1951 edition of _Galaxy_) describes it exactly that way,
although in a form carefully regulated in a future society.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417612 is a reply to message #417562] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 14:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-11, Charles Richmond <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 11/8/2022 1:59 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Some people just aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
>
> “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.”
>
> ― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
Ah, thanks for reminding me of that one.
Mencken is one of my favourite cynics.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417613 is a reply to message #417559] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 14:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Like everything else, it's all become pointlessly complicated.
Whether it's pointless depends on who you ask. Taxation systems
which pile on layer after layer of complexity in an attempt to get
a more equitable distribution of wealth usually wind up consuming
so much in bureaucratic overhead that everyone is poorer off.
Except for the bureaucrats themselves, of course.
Then there are the politicians, marketroids, and other charlatans
who use bafflegab to con the public - who, being unaware of the
difference between complexity and sophistication, naively believe
that the more complex a system, the better it must be.
Complexity is a weapon. (The KISS principle is a countermeasure -
which explains why it's so widely maligned.)
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417614 is a reply to message #417596] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 14:42 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>> their lives a misery.
>
> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
> everything they read in tabloids.
Brother's headed that way now I guess.
He just read something made his face turn blue.
I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
-- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417622 is a reply to message #417614] |
Sat, 12 November 2022 23:34 |
Charles Richmond
Messages: 2754
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 11/12/2022 1:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
[snip..] [snip..] [snip..]
>>
>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>> everything they read in tabloids.
>
> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
> He just read something made his face turn blue.
> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>
"It *must* be true. I read it on Facebook!" :-(
Once I saw a single-frame cartoon of a high-society couple sitting at
the breakfast table. The woman says to the man:
"Let's hope it isn't true. But if it is true, let's hope it's not
generally known."
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417631 is a reply to message #417596] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 05:12 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 12/11/2022 15:30, D.J. wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 11/11/2022 23:05, Charles Richmond wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2022 4:19 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 09/11/2022 18:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 09:57:34 -0600, Charles Richmond
>>>> > <codescott@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>>> >> On 11/6/2022 5:15 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> >>> On 05/11/2022 20:41, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2022 15:50:28 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> >>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On 05/11/2022 14:01, D.J. wrote:
>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 17:35:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
>>>> >>>>>> <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>> On 2022-11-04, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Leave "they" alone. It's plural.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> It’s grammatically plural, but that doesn’t stop it taking
>>>> >>>>>>>> singular
>>>> >>>>>>>> referent (just like ‘you’).
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>>> The use of they as a singular for unknown gender is old and very
>>>> >>>>>>>>> common.
>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>>> Indeed.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> I've long seen it used when making a general reference which
>>>> >>>>>>> covers
>>>> >>>>>>> any number of people, and I don't have much of a problem with
>>>> >>>>>>> that.
>>>> >>>>>>> What's becoming more prevalent, though, is its use when referring
>>>> >>>>>>> to a single specific person - and that doesn't sit well with me.
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> Mind you, anything that smells of "wokeness" sets off my alarm
>>>> >>>>>>> bells.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Thats terrible that you don't know woke means 'don't be stupid'.
>>>> >>>>> And is only used by those who are....
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I didn't understand where you were coming from. But I get it now. Fox
>>>> >>>> Entertaiment is your 'news' of choice. Because that is one of the
>>>> >>>> originators of such nonsense.
>>>> >>>> --
>>>> >>>> Jim
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Dearly beloved Jim., we don't get Fox news in the UK
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I think you will find that the people who own FOX tv, also own many of
>>>> >> the influential gossip "newspapers"in Britain... so their philosophies
>>>> >> come through those papers as well.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Charles Richmond
>>>> >
>>>> > Yup, and the owner of Fox lives in England.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jim
>>>>
>>>> Sadly all of the 'gossip "newspapers"in Britain' are now owned by
>>>> large corporate left using organisations spreading the 'woke' meme as
>>>> a way of selling more shit.
>>>>
>>>> The 'right' view is simply not profitable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ISTM that some talking heads on TV said the Royals (including Queen
>>> Elizabeth and King Charles III) take care *not* to get crossways with
>>> the tabloids... because *too* many of the working class actually
>>> *believe* there is some truth in the factless sensationalism that the
>>> gossip rags publish.
>>>
>>>
>> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>> their lives a misery.
>
> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
> everything they read in tabloids.
Well I haven't heard anyone ever. Not since 'Freddy Starr ate my hamster'
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/tv/freddie-star r-really-eat-hamster-16254989
Nearly all my friends do however believe what they read in the Guardian
or hear on the BBC.
> --
> Jim
--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417632 is a reply to message #417599] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 05:13 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 12/11/2022 15:38, gareth evans wrote:
> On 12/11/2022 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>> And papers such as in the USA the NY times, and in the UK the Guardian,
>> pander to their primped puritan patronising pretentiousnesses by
>> printing articles hinting how stupid the plebs are, who read tabloids.
>> And why they shouldn't really be allowed to vote.
>
> That remonds me of the old TV ads for Colgate toothpaste with MFP ...
>
> Made For Proles.
>
>
LOL! First laugh of the day.
--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”
― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417633 is a reply to message #417613] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 05:22 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Like everything else, it's all become pointlessly complicated.
>
> Whether it's pointless depends on who you ask. Taxation systems
> which pile on layer after layer of complexity in an attempt to get
> a more equitable distribution of wealth usually wind up consuming
> so much in bureaucratic overhead that everyone is poorer off.
> Except for the bureaucrats themselves, of course.
>
I see you tend towards libertarianism, like me.
Never mind fair, lets just make the cake bigger!
> Then there are the politicians, marketroids, and other charlatans
> who use bafflegab to con the public - who, being unaware of the
> difference between complexity and sophistication, naively believe
> that the more complex a system, the better it must be.
In my youth, the working class lads amongst whom I trained as an
apprentice had a saying:
Bullshit Baffles Brains.
In short the more self consciously educated or smart a person thought he
was the more he could be taken in by a complicated story.
Climate change?
They spent their waking days playing tricks on each other and inventing
preposterous stories, and roared with laughter if anyone got 'had'
They naturally assumed Politicians and the media were doing the same, as
were 'the management', and indeed any other figure 'in authority'.
>
> Complexity is a weapon. (The KISS principle is a countermeasure -
> which explains why it's so widely maligned.)
>
I strongly recommend Joseph Tainter's 'Collapse of Complex Societies'
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Collapse-Complex-Societies-Studies- Archaeology/dp/052138673X
for example.
> Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add,
> but when there is nothing left to take away.
> -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
>
--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”
― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417634 is a reply to message #417614] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 05:25 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>> their lives a misery.
>>
>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>> everything they read in tabloids.
>
> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
> He just read something made his face turn blue.
> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>
If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
If you do read the papers you are misinformed
Mark Twain
I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
promotes as truth or reality.
My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
$3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
0.2% change in carbon emissions
Cui Bono?
--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417635 is a reply to message #417622] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 05:35 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 13/11/2022 04:34, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 11/12/2022 1:42 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>
> [snip..] [snip..] [snip..]
>
>>>
>>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>> everything they read in tabloids.
>>
>> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>> He just read something made his face turn blue.
>> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>
>
> "It *must* be true. I read it on Facebook!" :-(
>
> Once I saw a single-frame cartoon of a high-society couple sitting at
> the breakfast table. The woman says to the man:
>
> "Let's hope it isn't true. But if it is true, let's hope it's not
> generally known."
>
I will give tow of my favourite aphorisms. Everybody knows the 'Jungle
book' because it was a cartoon.
But it was also a book.
In the , the Bandar Log, the Monkey people (in Hindi) capture Mowgli and
tell him they are the cleverest, the most right and the most
sophisticated people in the jungle. "What we say today, the world will
believe tomorrow: We all say it, *so it must be true*!"
A better description of the Liberal left is hard to find. In the book
they never actually do anything except throw faeces at everyone else.
I call this BANDAR-LOGIC. E.g that a claimed 95% consensus makes
something true.
The other parable is the story of either 'the mice in council' or 'the
belling of the cat' depending on which version you find.
In it a smart young progressive Liberal Mouse declares to the council
that he has found a way to prevent the Cat culling the Mice: "It is
really quite simple., we must hang a bell around its neck"
Cheers erupt at his brilliance, till an old grey whiskered mouse is
heard to say from the back...
"But *who* will Bell The Cat?"
"the problems of renewable energy would all be solved with massive zero
cost 100% safe electricity storage"
Sure Bro, show it to me.
--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”
– Ludwig von Mises
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417637 is a reply to message #417634] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 12:09 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
> promotes as truth or reality.
Good. Maybe then they'll redevelop the ability to judge things
for themselves.
> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>
> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>
> Cui Bono?
I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
Enjoy yourselves while you can.
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.
-- Edward Abbey
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417639 is a reply to message #417637] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 13:00 |
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4843
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:09:45 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
> Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
> Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
> and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
> it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
> Enjoy yourselves while you can.
Malthus was talking out of the wrong end of his alimentary canal,
population growth is a sigmoid not an exponential (I don't think anyone
understands why but they all are). We can already see ours starting to level
off into the top of the S - around 10 billion seems to be the steady point.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417645 is a reply to message #417634] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 17:31 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>>> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>>> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>>> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>>> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>>> their lives a misery.
>>>
>>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>> everything they read in tabloids.
>>
>> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>> He just read something made his face turn blue.
>> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>
>
> If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
> If you do read the papers you are misinformed
>
> Mark Twain
>
>
> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
> promotes as truth or reality.
>
> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>
> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>
> Cui Bono?
>
Everything government does involves a lot of graft, logrolling, and insider
deals. Usually something gets done with what’s left, although not always.
--
Pete
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417646 is a reply to message #417637] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 17:31 |
Peter Flass
Messages: 8375
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-11-13, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
>> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
>> promotes as truth or reality.
>
> Good. Maybe then they'll redevelop the ability to judge things
> for themselves.
>
>> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
>> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>>
>> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
>> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>>
>> Cui Bono?
>
> I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
> Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
> Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
> and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
> it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
> Enjoy yourselves while you can.
>
> Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.
> -- Edward Abbey
>
Companies all say “we’ve got to do something about this, but they don’t
want that “something” to affect their business. Something will eventually
force everyone’s hand. It’s already nearly impossible to get flood
insurance in coastal Florida. How long before the state starts to add up
the cost of “beach replenishment” and decides to cut its losses?
--
Pete
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417649 is a reply to message #417645] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 18:06 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>>> > The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>>> > newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>>> > shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>>> > politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>>> > their lives a misery.
>>>>
>>>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>>> everything they read in tabloids.
>>>
>>> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>>> He just read something made his face turn blue.
>>> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>>> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>>> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>>
>>
>> If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
>> If you do read the papers you are misinformed
>>
>> Mark Twain
>>
>>
>> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
>> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
>> promotes as truth or reality.
>>
>> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
>> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>>
>> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
>> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>>
>> Cui Bono?
>>
>
> Everything government does involves a lot of graft, logrolling, and insider
> deals. Usually something gets done with what’s left, although not always.
>
Modern capitalism is built on growth. Exponential growth, over time.
Anyone with math exposure has likely seen an exponential curve (often
called a Hockey Stick). Modern society is based on energy, and thus
there is a direct correlation between economic growth and energy use
(which has also been increasing exponentially for a century and a half).
Extrapolating the past energy growth curve to the future, we find that
the planet becomes uninhabitable in a couple hundred years - just from
the waste heat irrespective of the heat-trapping effects of CO2.
The problem is that there hasn't been an acceptable political or
governance system developed yet that operates steady-state, and
most proposed steady-state economic systems require stable
population levels and consumption.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417652 is a reply to message #417646] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 22:04 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-13, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Companies all say “we’ve got to do something about this, but they don’t
> want that “something” to affect their business. Something will eventually
> force everyone’s hand. It’s already nearly impossible to get flood
> insurance in coastal Florida. How long before the state starts to add up
> the cost of “beach replenishment” and decides to cut its losses?
That depends on the size of the political donations from the companies
that do "beach replenishment".
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417653 is a reply to message #417639] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 22:04 |
Charlie Gibbs
Messages: 5313
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2022-11-13, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:09:45 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
>> Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
>> Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
>> and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
>> it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
>> Enjoy yourselves while you can.
>
> Malthus was talking out of the wrong end of his alimentary canal,
> population growth is a sigmoid not an exponential (I don't think anyone
> understands why but they all are). We can already see ours starting to level
> off into the top of the S - around 10 billion seems to be the steady point.
Perhaps. But as soon as population starts leveling off, governments
have a fit and start trying to find ways to keep it growing - baby
bonuses, for instance. Here in Canada, though, more and more people
are deciding not to procreate beyond their means (selfish of them,
if you ask the government); therefore the government sees immigration
as the solution. They've managed to boost our immigration rate to
400,000 people per year (double what we'd been doing for the 20 years
before that). Most of these people go straight to Vancouver or Toronto,
further stressing an already inadequate infrastructure and driving
housing prices through the roof (which is great for the property
developers that buy the politicians).
We need a different economic model: one that doesn't rely on perpetual
growth. But don't hold your breath; the ruling classes are quite happy
with things the way they are.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417654 is a reply to message #417653] |
Sun, 13 November 2022 22:57 |
Mike Spencer
Messages: 997
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
> On 2022-11-13, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:09:45 GMT
>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
>>> Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
>>> Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
>>> and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
>>> it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
>>> Enjoy yourselves while you can.
>>
>> Malthus was talking out of the wrong end of his alimentary canal,
>> population growth is a sigmoid not an exponential (I don't think anyone
>> understands why but they all are). We can already see ours starting to level
>> off into the top of the S - around 10 billion seems to be the steady point.
>
> Perhaps.
Not even "perhaps". The logistic function is very nice but when
you're talking about global population its one-dimensionality means
that you're assuming a great many constants that aren't, in fact,
constant or will cease to be constant in the foreseeable future.
IIRC (I can't find my copy), Limits to Growth proposed several
population scenarios. The simple sigmoid one was the most optimistic
outcome, based on the most optimistic projection of contributing but
not predictable factors. Other of their scenarios might be called
"crash & burn" and "collapse into misery". I don't think they even
considered "neo-feudalism" which we already have to degree and the
extreme of which I can readily imagine.
> But as soon as population starts leveling off, governments
> have a fit and start trying to find ways to keep it growing - baby
> bonuses, for instance. Here in Canada, though, more and more people
> are deciding not to procreate beyond their means (selfish of them,
> if you ask the government);
That's the evidence on which Mr. Shot inter alia base the happy
"sigmoid and all will be well" projection. But that tendency is
overwhelmed by, just becomes noise within, a flood of other factors,
not the least of which is:
> therefore the government sees immigration as the solution. They've
> managed to boost our immigration rate to 400,000 people per year
> (double what we'd been doing for the 20 years before that). Most of
> these people go straight to Vancouver or Toronto, further stressing
> an already inadequate infrastructure and driving housing prices
> through the roof (which is great for the property developers that
> buy the politicians).
Just so.
> We need a different economic model: one that doesn't rely on perpetual
> growth. But don't hold your breath; the ruling classes are quite happy
> with things the way they are.
Complex systems tend to be stable in phase space but when certain
factors exceed certain values, the whole system may move suddenly to a
new and very different but also stable location in phase space. It's
intrinsic to the nature of complex systems that those "certain factors"
and "certain values" typically can't be identified a priori. The
complex global system is already stressed, numerous important factors
are already exhibiting worrisome values. The ruling classes aren't
going to be happy with most of the potential eventualities; extreme,
overt Neo-feudalism might be an exception.
The problem is that to have a world anything like the one we know, the
global population need to be more like 2 billion and there's no way to
get there that isn't horrible and calamitous.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417659 is a reply to message #417639] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 07:32 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 13/11/2022 18:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Nov 2022 17:09:45 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I no longer care about all these climate change squabbles.
>> Not only have we lost the battle, we've eagerly surrendered.
>> Population growth will outstrip any attempts at conservation -
>> and since population growth is sacred to the Powers That Be,
>> it's just a matter of time before we hit the Malthusian crash.
>> Enjoy yourselves while you can.
>
> Malthus was talking out of the wrong end of his alimentary canal,
> population growth is a sigmoid not an exponential (I don't think anyone
> understands why but they all are). We can already see ours starting to level
> off into the top of the S - around 10 billion seems to be the steady point.
>
Well a sigmoid is an exponential that just ran into some kind of limit :-)
Calling any sexusl advance 'abuse' has stemmed a lot of peoples ardour :-)
--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.
Anon.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417660 is a reply to message #417645] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 08:34 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 13/11/2022 22:31, Peter Flass wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>>> > The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>>> > newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>>> > shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>>> > politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>>> > their lives a misery.
>>>>
>>>> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>>> everything they read in tabloids.
>>>
>>> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>>> He just read something made his face turn blue.
>>> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>>> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>>> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>>
>>
>> If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
>> If you do read the papers you are misinformed
>>
>> Mark Twain
>>
>>
>> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
>> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
>> promotes as truth or reality.
>>
>> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
>> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>>
>> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
>> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>>
>> Cui Bono?
>>
>
> Everything government does involves a lot of graft, logrolling, and insider
> deals. Usually something gets done with what’s left, although not always.
>
Precisely. If you haven't read 'slide rule' by Nevile Shute, do so.
His argument is 100% for ownership of private wealth, because one
individual sitting on a fortune canm say 'yes' or 'no' in a minute and
write any check needed to finance something that needs it
But government *employees* with no private incomes will always do
whatever is needed to avoid making the *wrong* decisions that loses them
their job and pension. Unless someone else is paying them even more.
It guarantees corruption and incompetence.
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417661 is a reply to message #417653] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 08:34 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 14/11/2022 03:04, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> We need a different economic model: one that doesn't rely on perpetual
> growth. But don't hold your breath; the ruling classes are quite happy
> with things the way they are.
No Charlie, they are scared shitless, but when it comes to economics and
technology, they are simply not very good. All they are good at is
accumulating wealth and information and using it to control people.
In what direction, is something they are crap at. For what purpose boils
down to simply remaining at the top of a tree the plebs keep alive.
For all the economic theory - and I had a very good friend whose father
was an economic guide to the UK government, and he was appalled at what
he was taught at Cambridge University as 'fact' when it was little more
than rule of wet thumb in the breeze (he gave up economics and made a
career as a professional violinist) - the powers that be really are
simply clueless. They try something and then they try something else,
and there is always some expert to confirm its the right thig.
This is my major fear of the world idiocracy we seem to be heading into.
Economic policy is being decided globally, so the whole of civilisation
will crash together.
Whereas at least with nation states competing with one another, the one
that gets it right gets to take over the one that fucked up.
Small is not beautiful, but big is very prone to single points of
failure . System theory shows the best way to control a complex
interconnected system is by having autonomous control with localised
feedback, and then only tyeing the now relatively stable sub units into
the larger system.
So what you do, is leave people their money and tax them less. They not
have money they can spend wherever their needs arise. They group
themselves into family units, and have votes for the local councils that
direct their local environment, even if that happens to be an Amesh or
fundamental Mormons sect type situation. If you are gay, and don't like
that, move to San Francisco. Or Brighton UK.
Centralised policy should be only for matters that cannot be handled
locally - defence of the realm, very basic laws that can be augmented
by local bye laws - I mean the idiocy of enforcing people to e.g. pick
up dog mess in plastic bags (which they then hang on trees FFS) in
places where the woods and moors are littered with badger shit, fox
shit, possible bear or wolf shit and no child is allowed to grab doggy
doo and run their eyes with it. Or having itinerant Lapps whose reindeer
are the only thing that can live off the tundra, forced to become Vegans
as a matter of central government policy.
That way you have a relatively laissez faire society that more or less
does its own thing locally, and only owes national allegiance on a basic
level.
But no, today its all about the WEF and its trails of 'experts'
enforcing global measures to try and control a world economy, by micro
managing everything.
It cant be done. You need rapid reactions to local and even global
crises. Not comittees that take ten years to come up with an answer
that wouldn't have worked anyway.
To fuck up only needs a mistake, to fuck up royally takes a mistake and
a computer system and to fuck up beyond all recognition takes a mistaken
government and a computer system
The world is out of control, and really the best way to solve the issue
is to take the hands of the reins of power and let the horses of state
find their own ways.
But that begs the question of 'what are the reins of power for, then'
And they wont let go will they?
So they invent 'socialism' which in its most modern form simply says
'you need us to wipe your bottoms for you, because we have removed basic
bottom wiping from the school curriculum and your parents have been told
potty training is a form of child abuse, and the use of anything other
than government paper and state employed properly trained and accredited
bottom wipers is dangerous and immoral'
This solves the unemployment problem, as lacking B-Ark capabilities
Bottom wipers and Telephone Sanitisers now get wealth distributed to
them by the means of become public sector employees, with dignity,
rather than welfare layabouts smashed on hash all day, which would
actually be cheaper for society to accomodate.
So that's what Socialism does with its spare people. Invents jobs for
them and gives then the vote, and no one votes against a government that
has guaranteed them employment.
However that does not stop them consuming more resources than are
available. Nor does it generate one Iota of wealth. Bing a 'diversity
consultant' to the NHS butters no parsnips. No matter how virtuous it is
deemed to be.
And that is why the problems today are out of control. It doesn't matter
how many economic experts print however much money they like, flood the
economy with it and lend it to banks, or how societies wealth is
divided, there is a basic equation that tangible wealth per capita is
gross wealth created divided by population. And if you cannot increase
tangible wealth, then you need to limit population. Alsso, if your
economies wealth production is in the hands of a very few people,
because you just pump oil and gas (Russia, Nigeria) or its massively
mechanized and roboticised (say Japan) then who actually *needs* plebs?
Send em to Ukraine and let NATO kill the fuckers, says that nice Mr
Putin. And tell them it's to Save Mother Rusia
Well its a plan, I guess.
Let em eat insects and rotting vegetables and shiver in the dark, says
the West, and tell em its to Save the Planet.
BUT this all has a downside.
Debt. All those folks on top of the tree have lent money to the plebs
and the governments absolutely beyond any means to ever repay it,
because after you have stolen everybody's money through taxes, 'state
capture', and government cronyism, what can you do with it? Lend it back
to them to create a massively profitable slave sovciety where instead of
laws and chains, you use debt.
And the only way to even keep up with interest payments is to grow or
import more people and spread the debt among a larger population and
gradually inflate its value away.
But if you cannot feed more people, or house more people or provide more
jobs for people, or generate more wealth, because you are resource
limited, you are, so to speak, fucked.
And here we are - balanced between debt so large it cannot be paid, and
borrowers whose impact is simply too big to allow them to fail.
And trust me, those at the top have no clue, and no plan, and this has
been on the cards since the 1990s, and its just been kicked down the road.
One of two outcomes look stable, at least.
One is a world communist government, which his where the West is
tending, where the elites simply take control, write off their own debts
and impose whatever they like on a dwindling population with a falling
standard of living.
And the other is that governments and international political blocs
collapse along with globalism, and like musical chairs the debt tune
stops and you are left holding whatever you can lay your hands on, and
the devil take the hindmost.
Technical bankruptcy for all governments and world banks, and the
collapse of yet another complex society back into whatever localised
units find they can survive and stabilise.
Credit, means 'I trust you' and when you can no longer trust the
international credit system, the banks, or the governments, fans are
going to be bombarded with excrement.
Welcome to 2030
--
The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.
Anon.
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417662 is a reply to message #417649] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 08:44 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 13/11/2022 23:06, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> > <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>>> >> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>>> >> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>>> >> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>>> >> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>>> >> their lives a misery.
>>>> >
>>>> > Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>>> > everything they read in tabloids.
>>>>
>>>> Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>>>> He just read something made his face turn blue.
>>>> I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>>>> They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>>>> -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
>>> If you do read the papers you are misinformed
>>>
>>> Mark Twain
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
>>> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
>>> promotes as truth or reality.
>>>
>>> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
>>> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>>>
>>> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
>>> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>>>
>>> Cui Bono?
>>>
>>
>> Everything government does involves a lot of graft, logrolling, and insider
>> deals. Usually something gets done with what’s left, although not always.
>>
>
> Modern capitalism is built on growth. Exponential growth, over time.
> Anyone with math exposure has likely seen an exponential curve (often
> called a Hockey Stick). Modern society is based on energy, and thus
> there is a direct correlation between economic growth and energy use
> (which has also been increasing exponentially for a century and a half).
>
> Extrapolating the past energy growth curve to the future, we find that
> the planet becomes uninhabitable in a couple hundred years - just from
> the waste heat irrespective of the heat-trapping effects of CO2.
>
There isn't enough carbon in the ground to do that. We will obviously
if civilisations is still here, which is seriously in doubt - have gone
as near 100% nuclear as possible
And the CO2 doesn't trap the heat that much - it is pretty close to
saturation at the moment
And populations are not expanding exponentially in the West. That is the
problem,. No growth of population makes debt hard to service
Energy is not the limiting factor in these times, nuclear power
guarantees massive amounts for thousands of years.
Neither is the climate - a mildly warming world with CO2 at 500ppm would
make most of Siberia and Canada look like the Mid West with massive food
production capability
The real shortages are in things like living space, minerals and metals,
fresh water, and the like.
> The problem is that there hasn't been an acceptable political or
> governance system developed yet that operates steady-state, and
> most proposed steady-state economic systems require stable
> population levels and consumption.
Well forget all the theory. In the end what happens is what happens.
All that is happening now is that governments are desperately trying to
control a global society that they cannot control, and their biggest
worry is that people will rumble to their incompetence stop believing
in their necessaity and stop doing what they are told.
We will ether develop nuclear power and stabilise populations or we will
regress to a Green imagined stone age. Where the 0.1% who survive go
back to a hippy style hunter gatherer lifestyle and a life expectancy of
25 years.
--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
Frédéric Bastiat
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417663 is a reply to message #417652] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 08:48 |
The Natural Philosoph
Messages: 238
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 14/11/2022 03:04, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-11-13, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Companies all say “we’ve got to do something about this, but they don’t
>> want that “something” to affect their business. Something will eventually
>> force everyone’s hand. It’s already nearly impossible to get flood
>> insurance in coastal Florida. How long before the state starts to add up
>> the cost of “beach replenishment” and decides to cut its losses?
>
> That depends on the size of the political donations from the companies
> that do "beach replenishment".
>
Precisely so
It is nearly impossible to get flood insurance on a lot of new builds in
the UK because they are being built on flood plains that usually flood
every 50 years or so, and are now even more prone to flood, not 'because
climate change' but because upstream the flood plains are *already*
built over, and eco hysteria dictates that rivers should not be dredged,
so the water ends up flooding downstream even more.
--
"The great thing about Glasgow is that if there's a nuclear attack it'll
look exactly the same afterwards."
Billy Connolly
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| Re: self-documenting APL, not COBOL and tricks [message #417665 is a reply to message #417662] |
Mon, 14 November 2022 09:37 |
scott
Messages: 4237
Registered: February 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
> On 13/11/2022 23:06, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 12/11/2022 19:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>> > On 2022-11-12, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 11:12:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
>>>> >> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> That is typical leftists patronising bullshit.
>>>> >>> The true working classes - the few that are left - believe that all
>>>> >>> newspapers print shit, the government is definitely out to shag them
>>>> >>> shitless, and the establishment, from school teachers to police and to
>>>> >>> politicians, are absolutely on someone else's side and are there to make
>>>> >>> their lives a misery.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Nah, I've heard with my own ears people, some relatives, who believe
>>>> >> everything they read in tabloids.
>>>> >
>>>> > Brother's headed that way now I guess.
>>>> > He just read something made his face turn blue.
>>>> > I ain't got nothing 'gainst the press;
>>>> > They wouldn't print it if it wasn't true.
>>>> > -- Joe Jackson: Sunday Papers
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> If you don't read the papes you are uninformed
>>>> If you do read the papers you are misinformed
>>>>
>>>> Mark Twain
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the Internet and such exchanges as we are engaged in here are
>>>> slowly eroding public trust in *anything* that a paid for organisation
>>>> promotes as truth or reality.
>>>>
>>>> My conclusions derive from no one source - they are a result of a
>>>> lifetimes experience. The higher the stakes the bigger the lie.
>>>>
>>>> $3.8 trillion spent on 'renewable energy'
>>>> 0.2% change in carbon emissions
>>>>
>>>> Cui Bono?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Everything government does involves a lot of graft, logrolling, and insider
>>> deals. Usually something gets done with what’s left, although not always.
>>>
>>
>> Modern capitalism is built on growth. Exponential growth, over time.
>> Anyone with math exposure has likely seen an exponential curve (often
>> called a Hockey Stick). Modern society is based on energy, and thus
>> there is a direct correlation between economic growth and energy use
>> (which has also been increasing exponentially for a century and a half).
>>
>> Extrapolating the past energy growth curve to the future, we find that
>> the planet becomes uninhabitable in a couple hundred years - just from
>> the waste heat irrespective of the heat-trapping effects of CO2.
>>
>
> There isn't enough carbon in the ground to do that. We will obviously
> if civilisations is still here, which is seriously in doubt - have gone
> as near 100% nuclear as possible
Who said anything about carbon? Energy use includes all forms, including
solar, wind and nuclear. All of them generate waste heat during production
and use.
>
> And the CO2 doesn't trap the heat that much - it is pretty close to
> saturation at the moment
Nonsense.
> Energy is not the limiting factor in these times, nuclear power
> guarantees massive amounts for thousands of years.
What do you plan on doing with the waste heat? That's the heat
of generation and the heat of use (most energy when used is
dissipated as heat).
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