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Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416124] Sun, 14 August 2022 06:47 Go to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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https://wnbf.com/demolition-ibm-country-club-endicott-immine nt/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416129 is a reply to message #416124] Sun, 14 August 2022 13:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: KP KP

On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 3:47:20 AM UTC-7, Iron Spring Software wrote:
> https://wnbf.com/demolition-ibm-country-club-endicott-immine nt/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
Such a sad state for that building.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416138 is a reply to message #416129] Sun, 14 August 2022 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quadibloc is currently offline  Quadibloc
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On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 11:06:46 AM UTC-6, jungl...@outlook.com wrote:
> Such a sad state for that building.

Yes. If it is not desired for the building to be torn down, because it is
considered to be a historic place, then the government, instead of
intervening now, should have intervened not to allow it to fall into
disrepair.
But it is unclear to me that, aside for some sentimental regrets at
the event, that this is the case. For the land to be re-used may be the
most appropriate step to take; surely an apartment building that houses
many is preferable to a country club for the few.

John Savard
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416158 is a reply to message #416138] Mon, 15 August 2022 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 11:06:46 AM UTC-6, jungl...@outlook.com wrote:
>> Such a sad state for that building.
>
> Yes. If it is not desired for the building to be torn down, because it is
> considered to be a historic place, then the government, instead of
> intervening now, should have intervened not to allow it to fall into
> disrepair.
> But it is unclear to me that, aside for some sentimental regrets at
> the event, that this is the case. For the land to be re-used may be the
> most appropriate step to take; surely an apartment building that houses
> many is preferable to a country club for the few.
>

It’s not at all obvious. There are a lot of intangible benefits to a
country club. There’s a huge (years-long) fight here in Phoenix between
homeowners surrounding a golf course where the deeds guaranteed it would be
a golf course “forever” and the current owner who was trying to use it for
new houses. In this case it looks like the homeowners won, at least for
now.

We have too many freakin “little boxes” taking up too much land that would
better be used for agriculture and requiring too much infrastructure like
new freeways. and resources such as water for lawns and pools. What we need
is more infill and more condos and apartments.


--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416159 is a reply to message #416158] Mon, 15 August 2022 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: KP KP

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:03:48 PM UTC-7, Peter Flass wrote:
> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 11:06:46 AM UTC-6, jungl...@outlook.com wrote:
>>> Such a sad state for that building.
>>
>> Yes. If it is not desired for the building to be torn down, because it is
>> considered to be a historic place, then the government, instead of
>> intervening now, should have intervened not to allow it to fall into
>> disrepair.
>> But it is unclear to me that, aside for some sentimental regrets at
>> the event, that this is the case. For the land to be re-used may be the
>> most appropriate step to take; surely an apartment building that houses
>> many is preferable to a country club for the few.
>>
> It’s not at all obvious. There are a lot of intangible benefits to a
> country club. There’s a huge (years-long) fight here in Phoenix between
> homeowners surrounding a golf course where the deeds guaranteed it would be
> a golf course “forever” and the current owner who was trying to use it for
> new houses. In this case it looks like the homeowners won, at least for
> now.
>
> We have too many freakin “little boxes” taking up too much land that would
> better be used for agriculture and requiring too much infrastructure like
> new freeways. and resources such as water for lawns and pools. What we need
> is more infill and more condos and apartments.
>
>
> --
> Pete
Maybe a nice big park be a good use for that land.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416164 is a reply to message #416158] Mon, 15 August 2022 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
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It appears that Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> said:
> Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 14, 2022 at 11:06:46 AM UTC-6, jungl...@outlook.com wrote:
>>> Such a sad state for that building.
>>
>> Yes. If it is not desired for the building to be torn down, because it is
>> considered to be a historic place, then the government, instead of
>> intervening now, should have intervened not to allow it to fall into
>> disrepair.

Why? It is not of any great architectural interest, and the town of Union,
pop. 56,000, is not rich.

> It’s not at all obvious. There are a lot of intangible benefits to a
> country club. ...

If there were enough people in town interested in a another country
club, it would still be a country club. When IBM left town, all the
members left too. The Binghamton Country Club in Endwell is 1.5 miles
away and seems pretty nice.

The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
more than it needs another golf course.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416271 is a reply to message #416164] Sat, 20 August 2022 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
> more than it needs another golf course.

The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow into
the town - usually they don't.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416273 is a reply to message #416271] Sat, 20 August 2022 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>> more than it needs another golf course.
>
> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow into
> the town - usually they don't.
>

A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416274 is a reply to message #416273] Sat, 20 August 2022 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>> more than it needs another golf course.
>>
>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>> into the town - usually they don't.
>>
>
> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.

Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
being at the same level of goodness.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416277 is a reply to message #416271] Sat, 20 August 2022 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2022-08-20, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>
>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>> more than it needs another golf course.
>
> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow into
> the town - usually they don't.
>

Killenard golf course, near Portarlington, you may have heard of it, is famous because a
lot of its members are from Dubliin, about 50 miles away. Provides a bit of employment
locally, not as much as Costollo's shebeen that was there before.


--
greymausg@mail.org

Where is our money gone, Dude?
Do you want earwigs with that?.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416284 is a reply to message #416274] Sat, 20 August 2022 21:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
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According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>
>>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>> into the town - usually they don't.

>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>
> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. ...

I get the impression that nobody here other than me has ever been to Endicott.

Trust me, we're not talking big cities here. It's fairly close to
Binghamton, population 48,000, home of a state university campus and a
double-A minor league baseball team. There is no shortage of open
space. What they are short of is good jobs and decent housing.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416286 is a reply to message #416284] Sat, 20 August 2022 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel is currently offline  Anne &amp; Lynn Wheel
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
> I get the impression that nobody here other than me has ever been to Endicott.
>
> Trust me, we're not talking big cities here. It's fairly close to
> Binghamton, population 48,000, home of a state university campus and a
> double-A minor league baseball team. There is no shortage of open
> space. What they are short of is good jobs and decent housing.

I was blamed for online computer conferencing on the internal network in
the late 70s and early 80s, It really took off after I distributed
trip report to Jim Gray at Tandem ... only about 300 participated, but
claims upwards of 25,000 were reading. Folklore is when corporate
executive committee was told, 5of6 wanted to fire me.

There were six copies of 300 some pages printed, along with executive
summary and summary of the summary, were packaged in Tandem 3-ring
binders and set to the executive committee. From summary of summary:

* The perception of many technical people in IBM is that the company is
rapidly heading for disaster. Furthermore, people fear that this
movement will not be appreciated until it begins more directly to affect
revenue, at which point recovery may be impossible

* Many technical people are extremely frustrated with their management and
with the way things are going in IBM. To an increasing extent, people
are reacting to this by leaving IBM Most of the contributors to the
present discussion would prefer to stay with IBM and see the problems
rectified. However, there is increasing skepticism that correction is
possible or likely, given the apparent lack of commitment by management
to take action

* There is a widespread perception that IBM management has failed to
understand how to manage technical people and high-technology
development in an extremely competitive environment.

.... and from IBM Jargon
https://comlay.net/ibmjarg.pdf

Tandem Memos - n. Something constructive but hard to control; a fresh of
breath air (sic). That's another Tandem Memos. A phrase to worry middle
management. It refers to the computer-based conference (widely
distributed in 1981) in which many technical personnel expressed
dissatisfaction with the tools available to them at that time, and also
constructively criticized the way products were [are] developed. The
memos are required reading for anyone with a serious interest in quality
products. If you have not seen the memos, try reading the November 1981
Datamation summary.

.... but it takes another decade (1981-1992) ... IBM has one of the worst
losses in US company history and was being re-orged into the 13 "baby
blues" in preparation for breaking up the company. gone behind paywall,
but mostly lives free at wayback machine.
http://web.archive.org/web/20101120231857/http://www.time.co m/time/magazine/article/0,9171,977353,00.html
may also work
http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,9773 53-1,00.html

had already left IBM, but get a call from the bowels of Armonk asking if
could help with breakup of the company. Lots of business units were
using supplier contracts in other units via MOUs. After the breakup, all
of these contracts would be in different companies ... all of those MOUs
would have to be cataloged and turned into their own contracts. However,
before getting started, the board brings in a new CEO and reverses the
breakup.

Along the way, got email from former co-workers that top executives
weren't paying attention to running the business ... but concentrating
on shifting expenses to the current year. We asked our contact from
bowels of Armonk. He says that the current year is in the red and they
won't get any bonus. However, if they can shift enough expenses from the
following year to the current year, even if if only moves it a little
into the black ... the way the executive bonus plan is written, they
will get bonuses more then twice as large as any previous bonus
(effectively getting rewarded for taking the company into the red).

various recent posts about IBM downturn/downhill slide
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2018d.html#39 IBM downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2019b.html#75 IBM downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2019b.html#76 IBM downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2019b.html#77 IBM downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2019b.html#79 IBM downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#79 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#80 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#81 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#82 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#83 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#84 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#88 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#89 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021i.html#92 How IBM lost the cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#31 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#32 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#45 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#49 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#50 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021j.html#113 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2021k.html#3 IBM Downturn
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022e.html#103 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022e.html#104 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022f.html#2 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022f.html#32 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022f.html#42 IBM Bureaucrats
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022f.html#60 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2022f.html#67 John Boyd and IBM Wild Ducks

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416288 is a reply to message #416274] Sun, 21 August 2022 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D.J. is currently offline  D.J.
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On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>
>>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>> into the town - usually they don't.
>>>
>>
>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>
> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
> being at the same level of goodness.

I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
are all closed.
--
Jim
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416290 is a reply to message #416288] Sun, 21 August 2022 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2022-08-21, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
> are all closed.

Many died during the 2004ish boom/bust when they were too valuable for
housing, and the speculators bought them out. One near here is on public
land, and is a good thing. Anyone can join as long as they behave
themselves.


> --
> Jim


--
greymausg@mail.org

Where is our money gone, Dude?
Do you want earwigs with that?.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416291 is a reply to message #416288] Sun, 21 August 2022 11:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Senior Member
D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:

> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> > more than it needs another golf course.
>>>>
>>>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> into the town - usually they don't.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>
>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>> being at the same level of goodness.
>
> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
> are all closed.

Of course you don't understand the need for golf courses.
They are never needed.
They are desirable to people that want to play golf though.
Those same people may think that's the best use of the land.

I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416292 is a reply to message #416291] Sun, 21 August 2022 12:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
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It appears that Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> said:
> I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
> I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
> bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
> a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.

You'll be pleased to know that there is a drving range on the east side
of the former IBM country club. It may have been IBM's before the club
shut down, can't tell from the pictures.

When they build the apartments, they'll be a short walk from the driving
range.

Here it is in Google street view:

https://goo.gl/maps/WHMbz73PWJ5cTaFd8

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416293 is a reply to message #416291] Sun, 21 August 2022 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Michael N. LeVine is currently offline  Michael N. LeVine
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Registered: August 2012
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Member
On Aug 21, 2022, Dan Espen wrote
(in article <tdtiip$2c8vl$1@dont-email.me>):

> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> > > more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >
>>>> > The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> > into the town - usually they don't.
>>>>
>>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>
>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>>> being at the same level of goodness.
>>
>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>> are all closed.
>
> Of course you don't understand the need for golf courses.
> They are never needed.
> They are desirable to people that want to play golf though.
> Those same people may think that's the best use of the land.
>
> I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
> I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
> bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
> a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.

They could be useful in drought areas for finding water.
As any golfer can tell you, the balls have an affinity for water
when struck by a club.

Michael LeVine
mlevine@redshift.com

Politics is the art of looking for trouble,
finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly,
and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416294 is a reply to message #416293] Sun, 21 August 2022 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:18:57 -0700
Mike <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> wrote:

> They could be useful in drought areas for finding water.
> As any golfer can tell you, the balls have an affinity for water
> when struck by a club.

I thought they were equally good at finding sand to bask in.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416295 is a reply to message #416284] Sun, 21 August 2022 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> > more than it needs another golf course.
>>>>
>>>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> into the town - usually they don't.
>
>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>
>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. ...
>
> I get the impression that nobody here other than me has ever been to Endicott.
>
> Trust me, we're not talking big cities here. It's fairly close to
> Binghamton, population 48,000, home of a state university campus and a
> double-A minor league baseball team. There is no shortage of open
> space. What they are short of is good jobs and decent housing.
>

Been there. Visited the IBM plant.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416296 is a reply to message #416288] Sun, 21 August 2022 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> > more than it needs another golf course.
>>>>
>>>> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> into the town - usually they don't.
>>>>
>>>
>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>
>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>> being at the same level of goodness.
>
> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
> are all closed.
> --
> Jim
>

Golf courses, along with parks, etc. provide much-needed greenspace. You
might not play golf, but the trees, ponds, etc. cool and purify the air.
People pay a premium for housing adjoining a golf course.

Sadly, a lot of miniature golf courses have gone the way of most drive-ins.
There are still some out there, but you have to look to find them. Another
victim of our housing industry that gobbles up every bit of land that
doesn’t already have a building on it.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416297 is a reply to message #416290] Sun, 21 August 2022 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2022-08-21, D.J <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>> are all closed.
>
> Many died during the 2004ish boom/bust when they were too valuable for
> housing, and the speculators bought them out. One near here is on public
> land, and is a good thing. Anyone can join as long as they behave
> themselves.
>

Many of the ones here in Phoenix are protected by deed restrictions. People
bought houses around what was guaranteed to be a golf course “forever.”
There has been a long-running soap-opera-ish legal battle over one local
course that developer bought and then stopped watering or maintaining,
with predictable results, intending to force the homeowners to allow him to
build houses. So far, at least, the courts have ordered him to
restore the course which he is doing, grudgingly.

By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
otherwise.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416298 is a reply to message #416292] Sun, 21 August 2022 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> It appears that Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> said:
>> I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
>> I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
>> bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
>> a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.
>
> You'll be pleased to know that there is a drving range on the east side
> of the former IBM country club. It may have been IBM's before the club
> shut down, can't tell from the pictures.
>
> When they build the apartments, they'll be a short walk from the driving
> range.
>
> Here it is in Google street view:
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/WHMbz73PWJ5cTaFd8
>

Might be a bit of a trip for Dan, I think.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416299 is a reply to message #416293] Sun, 21 August 2022 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Mike <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> wrote:
> On Aug 21, 2022, Dan Espen wrote
> (in article <tdtiip$2c8vl$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> >> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> >>> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> >> into the town - usually they don't.
>>>> >
>>>> > A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>>
>>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>>>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>>>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>>>> being at the same level of goodness.
>>>
>>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>>> are all closed.
>>
>> Of course you don't understand the need for golf courses.
>> They are never needed.
>> They are desirable to people that want to play golf though.
>> Those same people may think that's the best use of the land.
>>
>> I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
>> I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
>> bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
>> a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.
>
> They could be useful in drought areas for finding water.
> As any golfer can tell you, the balls have an affinity for water
> when struck by a club.
>

LOL. This brings up another use in the West, though. Greenspaces like golf
courses, parks, sports fields, or just empty space are part of the drainage
system. In case of flash floods ponds and lakes fill up first, then
low-lying parkland. The water is released slowly so it doesn’t cause
damage.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416300 is a reply to message #416292] Sun, 21 August 2022 20:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:

> It appears that Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> said:
>> I've never played golf and I'm not likely to ever want to.
>> I do enjoy driving ranges. Just seeing how far I can hit a ball is a
>> bit of fun. Hitting the ball shorter distances for accuracy seems like
>> a waste of time to me, but as I said, I'm not a golfer.
>
> You'll be pleased to know that there is a drving range on the east side
> of the former IBM country club. It may have been IBM's before the club
> shut down, can't tell from the pictures.
>
> When they build the apartments, they'll be a short walk from the driving
> range.
>
> Here it is in Google street view:
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/WHMbz73PWJ5cTaFd8

Nice, but not nice enough to make me want to drive up there.

I'm in NJ. There are multiple driving ranges within 30 minutes.
There's one in Edison on Rt 1 that's 3 stories tall. (3 decks)
They even run heaters in the winter.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416301 is a reply to message #416296] Sun, 21 August 2022 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:

> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> >> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >
>>>> > The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> > into the town - usually they don't.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>
>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>>> being at the same level of goodness.
>>
>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>> are all closed.
>> --
>> Jim
>>
>
> Golf courses, along with parks, etc. provide much-needed greenspace.

All this discussion and we failed to remember the primary use of golf courses.
You play golf to advance into management.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416302 is a reply to message #416301] Sun, 21 August 2022 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peter Flass is currently offline  Peter Flass
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Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> >> On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> >> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> >>> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> >> into the town - usually they don't.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>>
>>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>>>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>>>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>>>> being at the same level of goodness.
>>>
>>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>>> are all closed.
>>> --
>>> Jim
>>>
>>
>> Golf courses, along with parks, etc. provide much-needed greenspace.
>
> All this discussion and we failed to remember the primary use of golf courses.
> You play golf to advance into management.
>

Or schmooze with a customer to land an order.

--
Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416304 is a reply to message #416295] Mon, 22 August 2022 01:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bob Martin is currently offline  Bob Martin
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On 21 Aug 2022 at 19:27:56, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> According to Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> >> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >
>>>> > The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> > into the town - usually they don't.
>>
>>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>
>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. ...
>>
>> I get the impression that nobody here other than me has ever been to Endicott.
>>
>> Trust me, we're not talking big cities here. It's fairly close to
>> Binghamton, population 48,000, home of a state university campus and a
>> double-A minor league baseball team. There is no shortage of open
>> space. What they are short of is good jobs and decent housing.
>>
>
> Been there. Visited the IBM plant.
>
I spent a week there in 1982 (Hi to Gary, Charlie and Liz!).
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416305 is a reply to message #416302] Mon, 22 August 2022 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 17:28:32 -0700
Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

>> All this discussion and we failed to remember the primary use of golf
>> courses. You play golf to advance into management.
>>
>
> Or schmooze with a customer to land an order.

IOW they provide a discreet place to apply grease to transactions.

This is *not* a good thing.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416306 is a reply to message #416294] Mon, 22 August 2022 10:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D.J. is currently offline  D.J.
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 19:49:16 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
<steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:18:57 -0700
> Mike <mlevinespmfltr@redshift.com> wrote:
>
>> They could be useful in drought areas for finding water.
>> As any golfer can tell you, the balls have an affinity for water
>> when struck by a club.
>
> I thought they were equally good at finding sand to bask in.

Two people I knew in high school saw being a golf club member would
help them with contacts. I pointed out that since they lived in a
house trailer, I doubted such folks wanted them around except as
caddies.
--
Jim
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416307 is a reply to message #416296] Mon, 22 August 2022 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D.J. is currently offline  D.J.
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:27:57 -0700, Peter Flass
<peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 20:09:04 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
>> <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 10:39:51 -0700
>>> Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> > On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 02:23:54 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> > John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The town needs the 75 affordable apartments they'll be building way
>>>> >> more than it needs another golf course.
>>>> >
>>>> > The only way a town needs a golf course is if the profits flow
>>>> > into the town - usually they don't.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> A public course is about the same level of goodness as a public park.
>>>
>>> Public golf course is of use to the 0.1% or so that enjoy "a
>>> good walk ruined", a public park is of use to everybody. A public park
>>> gives children a place to play - a golf course gives a few of the greedy
>>> ones a place to collect lost balls for money. They're not even close to
>>> being at the same level of goodness.
>>
>> I've never understood the need for a golf course, it takes up lands
>> that could be put to better usage. Miniature golf courses are fine,
>> they don't take up much space. But the ones I know of, miniature ones,
>> are all closed.
>> --
>> Jim
>>
>
> Golf courses, along with parks, etc. provide much-needed greenspace. You
> might not play golf, but the trees, ponds, etc. cool and purify the air.
> People pay a premium for housing adjoining a golf course.
>
> Sadly, a lot of miniature golf courses have gone the way of most drive-ins.
> There are still some out there, but you have to look to find them. Another
> victim of our housing industry that gobbles up every bit of land that
> doesn’t already have a building on it.

Yup. I had, and have now partially put back, a web site on closed
drive-in movie theaters. There were over three thousand in the US at
one time. Another site I went to for info said over five thousand.
There are less than 300 of them now.
--
Jim
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416308 is a reply to message #416297] Mon, 22 August 2022 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Arne Luft is currently offline  Arne Luft
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On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
> the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
> otherwise.

Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
insecticides (though different localities have different rules).

N.

>
> --
> Pete
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416309 is a reply to message #416307] Mon, 22 August 2022 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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No Message Body
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416310 is a reply to message #416309] Mon, 22 August 2022 13:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 16:53:41 GMT
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> D.J. <chucktheouch@gmnol.com> writes:
>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 12:27:57 -0700, Peter Flass
>
>>> Sadly, a lot of miniature golf courses have gone the way of most drive-ins.
>>> There are still some out there, but you have to look to find them. Another
>>> victim of our housing industry that gobbles up every bit of land that
>>> doesn’t already have a building on it.
>
> Even if it already has a building that's considered unproductive or
> obsolete.
>
>>
>> Yup. I had, and have now partially put back, a web site on closed
>> drive-in movie theaters. There were over three thousand in the US at
>> one time. Another site I went to for info said over five thousand.
>> There are less than 300 of them now.
>
> And bowling alleys, softball fields and roller skating rinks. All becoming
> vestiges of the past.
>
This NG is open to all nations; we used to have bowling alleys (we'd call
them skittle alleys) in some pubs (a few still left), but rarely the other
things.

top hit:
https://thebarleymow.pub/skittle-alley/

more of a dining space nowadays.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416311 is a reply to message #416308] Mon, 22 August 2022 13:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harry Vaderchi is currently offline  Harry Vaderchi
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On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 10:56:19 -0400
nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
>> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
>> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
>> the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
>> otherwise.
>
> Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
> insecticides (though different localities have different rules).
>
There might be an issue with water usage too.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416312 is a reply to message #416308] Mon, 22 August 2022 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
scott is currently offline  scott
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> nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
>>> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
>>> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
>>> the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
>>> otherwise.
>>
>> Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
>> insecticides (though different localities have different rules).

Aren't pesticides and insecticides basically the same thing?

Were you thinking herbicides?
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416313 is a reply to message #416308] Mon, 22 August 2022 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dan Espen is currently offline  Dan Espen
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nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
>> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
>> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
>> the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
>> otherwise.
>
> Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
> insecticides (though different localities have different rules).

What difference does that make? The greenery is there to look nice.

First time I saw a putting green I was amazed. The grass does a good
imitation of a carpet.

--
Dan Espen
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416314 is a reply to message #416311] Mon, 22 August 2022 18:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: maus

On 2022-08-22, Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 10:56:19 -0400
> nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
>>> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
>>> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do appreciate
>>> the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn little of it here
>>> otherwise.
>>
>> Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
>> insecticides (though different localities have different rules).
>>
> There might be an issue with water usage too.
>
>
Specially at the moment. The small golf course I mentioned used make a
point of being environmentally friendly, but in trying to get rid of
moss, spread an iron compound on the greens, which, natch, turned almost
to blue.

I am not a member of a golf club, but it amuses me to see people playing
in the rain, while building workers nearby have stopped.



--
greymausg@mail.org

Where is our money gone, Dude?
A Hero I've lived, and A hero I'll die.
No Money If You Stop For The Rain.
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416318 is a reply to message #416313] Tue, 23 August 2022 05:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4689
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 16:04:47 -0400
Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:

> nemo <invalid@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 2022-08-21 15:27, Peter Flass wrote (in part):
>>> By the way, I don’t golf. At one point I took a few lessons thinking it
>>> might be a good retirement hobby, but I never got into it. I do
>>> appreciate the greenery that the courses offer, because there’s darn
>>> little of it here otherwise.
>>
>> Unfortunately the "greenery" is often full of pesticides and
>> insecticides (though different localities have different rules).
>
> What difference does that make? The greenery is there to look nice.

Have you not heard that pollinating insects are heading towards
being endangered species partly (at least) thanks to extensive use of
pesticides.

> First time I saw a putting green I was amazed. The grass does a good
> imitation of a carpet.

From the point of view of most wildlife it is about as much use as
so many acres of carpet. Pretty green lawns are being recognised as being
ecological disasters that are in themselves another part of the above
mentioned problem. But hey they look pretty so that's OK - not!

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416319 is a reply to message #416310] Tue, 23 August 2022 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 4689
Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 18:17:28 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> This NG is open to all nations; we used to have bowling alleys (we'd call
> them skittle alleys) in some pubs (a few still left), but rarely the other
> things.

Growing up in Cambrige (the original) in the 1960s there was a
bowling alley and a roller skating rink - they went bust and were gone some
time in the 70s. Fast forward hlf a century and there's a bowling alley in
Tralee that's relatively new (decade or so I think) that seems to be doing
well - the only skating rink I've seen in recent decades is a travelling ice
skating rink - roller skates were becoming rare when skeelers (er roller
blades) took off.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Re: Demolition of Iconic IBM Country Club Complex "Imminent" [message #416320 is a reply to message #416124] Tue, 23 August 2022 10:44 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Arne Luft is currently offline  Arne Luft
Messages: 320
Registered: March 2012
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Senior Member
On 2022-08-14 06:47, Iron Spring Software wrote:
> https://wnbf.com/demolition-ibm-country-club-endicott-immine nt/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral

Is the same place where IBM used to set up their tent-city for their
Hundred Per Cent Club
( https://www.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/vintage/vintage_450 6VV2060.html )?

N.
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