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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375092 is a reply to message #375091] |
Mon, 29 October 2018 14:42   |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
Registered: April 2014
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Hi
Any green battery corrosion or leaky cap residue ?
Rgb monitor should have a test mode , most crts do- pull the service manual
Kind Regards
Raj
Sent from my wireless device
> On 29 Oct 2018, at 18:35, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I’m rebuilding a Mac IIci, starting with a recapped mainboard. The boots with a normal chime and the 13”
> RBG monitor powers up, although the display remains blank. The PRAM battery is new as well.
>
> I have read through some posts on similar problems and I’m looking for suggestions on isolating the problem; could this be a problem with the onboard video or has the monitor finally died?
>
> --
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375097 is a reply to message #375093] |
Mon, 29 October 2018 16:27 |
Matt Patoray
Messages: 21
Registered: February 2013
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Try removing the PRAM battery and resetting the PRAM.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:54 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
> The board is clean and there is no corrosion on the battery.
>
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KD8AMG
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375107 is a reply to message #375098] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 00:02 |
Jonathan Morton
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> On 29 Oct, 2018, at 11:05 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Would there a chime at boot if the onboard video was fried?
There are several reasons why the video might not work, and not all of them are detectable by software. The chime mainly means we can eliminate faulty memory or interrupt handling as a potential cause. A completely detached video cable would simply cause the Mac to default to producing a low-resolution, monochrome video signal.
The fault may lie in the CRT unit. Powering up simply means that it's receiving power - there is a mains-voltage switch in the IIci's PSU which handles that. If possible, we should verify that correct signals are coming out of the Mac before opening the CRT, but if there is a test mode or an alternative source of compatible video signals, we can use that to isolate whether any faults exist in the CRT.
Likewise, there may be a fault in the video signal generator circuitry, more technically known as the RAMDAC. It's possible for the RGB signals to be correctly produced but the sync signals to be missing, and vice versa, and both would result in a blank screen. This mostly consists of a relatively large chip which should be near the video output. Look for circuit board damage or contamination in this area, as well as any faulty capacitors which may previously have been missed.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375112 is a reply to message #375091] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 08:28 |
vintage-macs
Messages: 425
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Hi D,
At the risk of sounding patronising (not intended, honest) have you eliminated all the other possibilities?
- Was the Iici working before it was recapped?
- If yes, were there any particular symptoms such as odd images on screen? Checkerboard? vertical lines?
- Have you checked there are no dry solder joints? Magnifying glass is good (personal experience)
- Check ALL joints, not just the ones you did.
- Have you checked there are no bridged solder joints? Again magnifying glass is good (personal experience)
- Are the brightness and contrast controls turned up on the monitor? (I swear this is a thing, personal experience)
- Are you getting all the correct voltages from the PSU rails?
- When you recapped the mainboard, did you recap the power supply as well? I do this as a matter of course. All those heat up cool down cycles will eventually throw the voltages off.
- After recapping the mainboard, the board was cleaned to remove any residue of battery and old cap electrolyte? Electrolyte will causes shorts. I use isopropanol/isopropyl alcohol but I have run a dishwasher cycle or six on Analog/PSU boards as well as mainboards (remove chips from sockets before washing).
- Can you check the monitor works with something else?
I know it sounds like I'm covering the obvious but it's all meant in good faith.
Cheers,
Keith
On Monday, 29 October 2018, 18:35:04 GMT, dlewis1791@gmail.com <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
I’m rebuilding a Mac IIci, starting with a recapped mainboard. The boots with a normal chime and the 13”
RBG monitor powers up, although the display remains blank. The PRAM battery is new as well.
I have read through some posts on similar problems and I’m looking for suggestions on isolating the problem; could this be a problem with the onboard video or has the monitor finally died?
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375115 is a reply to message #375091] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 12:08 |
Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
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with the Mac IIci you NEED to make sure RAM is installed in Bank A...
if you have ram in bank B, you will get no video.
On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 2:35 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I’m rebuilding a Mac IIci, starting with a recapped mainboard. The boots with a normal chime and the 13”
> RBG monitor powers up, although the display remains blank. The PRAM battery is new as well.
>
> I have read through some posts on similar problems and I’m looking for suggestions on isolating the problem; could this be a problem with the onboard video or has the monitor finally died?
>
> --
> --
> -----
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375116 is a reply to message #375112] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 11:57 |
Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Great list Keith! I second Keith's suggestion of cleaning boards after
recapping. This always needs to be done since you can't always see the
electrolyte residue. This ends up being a hidden problem fairly often.
Best,
Jerri
On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 8:28 AM 'Keith Jamison' via Vintage Macs <
vintage-macs@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Hi D,
>
> At the risk of sounding patronising (not intended, honest) have you
> eliminated all the other possibilities?
>
> - Was the Iici working before it was recapped?
>
> - If yes, were there any particular symptoms such as odd images on screen?
> Checkerboard? vertical lines?
>
> - Have you checked there are no dry solder joints? Magnifying glass is
> good (personal experience)
>
> - Check ALL joints, not just the ones you did.
>
> - Have you checked there are no bridged solder joints? Again magnifying
> glass is good (personal experience)
>
> - Are the brightness and contrast controls turned up on the monitor? (I
> swear this is a thing, personal experience)
>
> - Are you getting all the correct voltages from the PSU rails?
>
> - When you recapped the mainboard, did you recap the power supply as well?
> I do this as a matter of course. All those heat up cool down cycles will
> eventually throw the voltages off.
>
> - After recapping the mainboard, the board was cleaned to remove any
> residue of battery and old cap electrolyte? Electrolyte will causes shorts.
> I use isopropanol/isopropyl alcohol but I have run a dishwasher cycle or
> six on Analog/PSU boards as well as mainboards (remove chips from sockets
> before washing).
>
> - Can you check the monitor works with something else?
>
> I know it sounds like I'm covering the obvious but it's all meant in good
> faith.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> On Monday, 29 October 2018, 18:35:04 GMT, dlewis1791@gmail.com <
> dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I’m rebuilding a Mac IIci, starting with a recapped mainboard. The boots
> with a normal chime and the 13”
> RBG monitor powers up, although the display remains blank. The PRAM
> battery is new as well.
>
> I have read through some posts on similar problems and I’m looking for
> suggestions on isolating the problem; could this be a problem with the
> onboard video or has the monitor finally died?
>
> --
> --
> -----
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375123 is a reply to message #375091] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 13:50 |
Jeff Walther
Messages: 134
Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member |
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On Monday, October 29, 2018 at 1:35:01 PM UTC-5, dlewi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I’m rebuilding a Mac IIci, starting with a recapped mainboard. The boots
> with a normal chime and the 13”
> RBG monitor powers up, although the display remains blank. The PRAM
> battery is new as well.
>
Is there RAM in the four SIMM slots of Bank A? I can't remember if the
IIci will boot without RAM in Bank A, but in any case, the on-board video
circuitry draws the RAM it uses from Bank A. If there is only RAM in
Bank B, then the onboard video cannot work.
Jeff Walther
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375133 is a reply to message #375132] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 16:33 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
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> On 30 Oct, 2018, at 10:31 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The SIMMS are in one bank, although the system booted fine in this configuration.
Okay, but WHICH bank? A or B?
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375135 is a reply to message #375134] |
Tue, 30 October 2018 17:12 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
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> On 30 Oct, 2018, at 10:59 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> From the photo I took, the bank nearest the hard drive bracket. I can’t see the board markings.
That appears to be Bank A, from squinting at board photos online - which is the correct one for internal video to work. Time to look at different possible problems.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375463 is a reply to message #375454] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 07:35 |
David Bourne
Messages: 2
Registered: May 2018
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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Hi
I’m wondering if the problem lies with the monitor. Can you connect to another mac and see if there is any action. I had a similar problem, you’d get is a monitor power supply starting up. but if there is an issue with the horizontal sweep circuit (the part that usually goes wrong) then there will not be any video.
Cheers
David
> On 5 Nov 2018, at 9:25 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The board looks clean around the video output, capacitors and video connector. I will have to pull the main board out and look underneath.
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375479 is a reply to message #375478] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 12:13 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> On 5 Nov, 2018, at 7:06 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I don’t have another Mac available, although I could get another Apple display from eBay and try that.
If you have a VGA monitor or something with a composite-video input, it should be possible to jury-rig something with wires to see whether the right signals are coming through.
Even a multimeter should help, on in the AC voltage or frequency settings.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375480 is a reply to message #375478] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 12:42 |
Notgoing Totellyou
Messages: 284
Registered: December 2012
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try poping all the ram out, and installing just 4 matched smmms in
RAM BANK A, also take a tooth brush and some 91% IPA alcohol and
scrub the ram slots of bank a as well. i have seen flux residue cause
issues many times. if there is any issue with ram in bank A you will
get NO video.
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:06 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don’t have another Mac available, although I could get another Apple display from eBay and try that.
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375482 is a reply to message #375481] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 13:17 |
The One True Stickman
Messages: 85
Registered: April 2013
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The VGA LCD is worth a shot - mac to VGA adapters are fairly cheap if you
haven't got one already.
There might also be someone near you that would be willing to help test if
you are comfortable posting what state or county you're in.
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 12:56 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have small LCD VGA display I use for my Linux server...
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375492 is a reply to message #375491] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 14:05 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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> On 5 Nov, 2018, at 9:03 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Are you referring to a Griffin Mac to VGA adapter?
That's one option, yes. There are others out there. Most of them just connect the signals through to the monitor, and have dip-switches to tell the Mac what kind of monitor to expect (because old Macs don't know about EDID).
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375493 is a reply to message #375491] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 14:06 |
Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
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There are many companies that make them. I know that Griffin makes ones for
modern Macs. You need one that is DB-15 to VGA (HD-15). You don't need a
fancy one with manual sense pin configuring, as you only need 640x480.
On Mon, Nov 5, 2018 at 2:03 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you referring to a Griffin Mac to VGA adapter?
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375495 is a reply to message #375494] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 15:30 |
Jonathan Morton
Messages: 188
Registered: January 2013
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> On 5 Nov, 2018, at 10:27 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Can’t find the Griffin adapter although cables online has a HD15 to DB15 adapter. So, all is needed is to switched the lines around? No signal conversion?
Yes, the electronics inside the monitor are basically the same anyway. Mac monitors of this type pre-dated multisync SVGA, but were contemporary with basic CGA/EGA/VGA on the PC side.
- Jonathan Morton
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375496 is a reply to message #375495] |
Mon, 05 November 2018 15:53 |
Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
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Senior Member |
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The VGA monitor needs to support sync-on-green. Some modern LCD displays support it, some don’t. And generally the only way to know is try it out. It’s rarely if ever reported as a feature. I just went through this connecting one up to my IIsi. I got lucky on the second monitor I tried.
Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway
> On Nov 5, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5 Nov, 2018, at 10:27 pm, dlewis1791@gmail.com <mailto:dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can’t find the Griffin adapter although cables online has a HD15 to DB15 adapter. So, all is needed is to switched the lines around? No signal conversion?
>
> Yes, the electronics inside the monitor are basically the same anyway. Mac monitors of this type pre-dated multisync SVGA, but were contemporary with basic CGA/EGA/VGA on the PC side.
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375519 is a reply to message #375508] |
Tue, 06 November 2018 01:09 |
Clark Martin
Messages: 156
Registered: August 2012
Karma: 0
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The problem is that the early Macs put out the sync ONLY on the green video line. There were some adapters that extracted the sync and put it out on the discrete sync lines but those would be quite rare now I expect.
Clark Martin
A designated driver on the information Super Highway
> On Nov 5, 2018, at 3:56 PM, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I didn’t think of that, there is a version of this adapter with dip switches if would allow making changes to the sync line.
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375531 is a reply to message #375519] |
Tue, 06 November 2018 09:33 |
Christian Wacker
Messages: 24
Registered: April 2018
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Junior Member |
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http://ps-2.kev009.com/sog/
This list is a little dated but a pretty comprehensive list of Sync On
Green compatible CRT and LCD displays.
On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 12:09 AM Clark Martin <cmmac@sonic.net> wrote:
> The problem is that the early Macs put out the sync ONLY on the green
> video line. There were some adapters that extracted the sync and put it
> out on the discrete sync lines but those would be quite rare now I expect.
>
>
> Clark Martin
> A designated driver on the information Super Highway
>
> On Nov 5, 2018, at 3:56 PM, dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I didn’t think of that, there is a version of this adapter with dip
> switches if would allow making changes to the sync line.
>
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375864 is a reply to message #375863] |
Sun, 11 November 2018 23:12 |
Jerri Kohl
Messages: 10
Registered: October 2018
Karma: 0
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Junior Member |
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If the Sony LCD supports 640x480 @ 66.67Hz, and the VGA adapter had the
sense pins configured properly for that resolution, and the VGA adapter was
plugged in prior to turning on the IIci, then there's almost definitely
something wrong with your video subsystem. I would recommend a NuBus
graphics card, which can allow for greater resolution(s) and color depth
than 640x480x256 colors.
http://www.retrotechnology.com/herbs_stuff/macmons.txt
ID3 ID2 ID1 Monitor Type
--------------------------------------------------------
1 1 0 Mac II 12" B&W, 13" Hi-Res RGB (640x480)
On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 10:56 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tried the VGA adapter with a Sony LCD with a 67HZ refresh rate and don’t
> see any signal.
>
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| Re: Mac IIci with blank monitor [message #375866 is a reply to message #375863] |
Sun, 11 November 2018 23:58 |
Bolling Holt
Messages: 10
Registered: July 2018
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Why am I getting messages for this for weeks now? Almost everyday!
On Sun, Nov 11, 2018, 9:56 PM <dlewis1791@gmail.com wrote:
> Tried the VGA adapter with a Sony LCD with a 67HZ refresh rate and don’t
> see any signal.
>
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