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Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264867 is a reply to message #264844] Tue, 19 August 2014 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <anim8rfsk-82A9E1.12222119082014@news.easynews.com>,
anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:

> In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
> arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
>
>> In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>>> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>> Edith's death was necessary.
>
> I don't even understand why this is a question. They don't have a time
> machine, or a starship to slingshot around the sun, or contact with the
> Guardian, and they're not even sure what's supposed to happen. They
> just blunder around until Edith gets killed and *pop* they're back to
> the future. Even if they were sure of the correct timeline, what were
> they supposed to do, yell into the air HEY GUARDIAN WE'VE GOT EDITH HERE
> HOW ABOUT YOU RETRIEVE US ALL? And they couldn't even do THAT until
> they found McCoy, and they didn't find McCoy until Edith had about 30
> seconds to live. Even if they had hatched such a scheme, even if such a
> scheme would have worked, they still wouldn't have been able to pull it
> off.
>
> Let's play it out. Kirk and Spock find McCoy. Edith, on her way to a
> movie that won't come out for years yet so the timeline is already
> hosed, steps out in front of a lumbering beer truck. Kirk lets McCoy
> save her and ... now what? Nothing happens. They all hang around the
> soup kitchen until Edith gets a little too mouthy about being nice to
> the Nazis and Spock, having had enough, hits her with the Vulcan Death
> Grip. Same outcome, just delayed.


Much better episode, and a sure Emmy nod for Nimoy. Another missed
opportunity.
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264868 is a reply to message #264867] Tue, 19 August 2014 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Johnston is currently offline  David Johnston
Messages: 220
Registered: March 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 8/19/2014 4:26 PM, A Friend wrote:
> In article <anim8rfsk-82A9E1.12222119082014@news.easynews.com>,
> anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
>> arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend> wrote:
>>>> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>>> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>>> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>>> Edith's death was necessary.
>>
>> I don't even understand why this is a question. They don't have a time
>> machine, or a starship to slingshot around the sun, or contact with the
>> Guardian, and they're not even sure what's supposed to happen. They
>> just blunder around until Edith gets killed and *pop* they're back to
>> the future. Even if they were sure of the correct timeline, what were
>> they supposed to do, yell into the air HEY GUARDIAN WE'VE GOT EDITH HERE
>> HOW ABOUT YOU RETRIEVE US ALL? And they couldn't even do THAT until
>> they found McCoy, and they didn't find McCoy until Edith had about 30
>> seconds to live. Even if they had hatched such a scheme, even if such a
>> scheme would have worked, they still wouldn't have been able to pull it
>> off.
>>
>> Let's play it out. Kirk and Spock find McCoy. Edith, on her way to a
>> movie that won't come out for years yet so the timeline is already
>> hosed, steps out in front of a lumbering beer truck. Kirk lets McCoy
>> save her and ... now what? Nothing happens. They all hang around the
>> soup kitchen until Edith gets a little too mouthy about being nice to
>> the Nazis and Spock, having had enough, hits her with the Vulcan Death
>> Grip. Same outcome, just delayed.
>
>
> Much better episode, and a sure Emmy nod for Nimoy. Another missed
> opportunity.
>

<snort> Nobody gets an Emmy for a performance on a science fiction
series.
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264878 is a reply to message #264868] Tue, 19 August 2014 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: A Friend

In article <lt0k87$8rd$1@dont-email.me>, David Johnston
<David@block.net> wrote:

> On 8/19/2014 4:26 PM, A Friend wrote:
>> In article <anim8rfsk-82A9E1.12222119082014@news.easynews.com>,
>> anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
>>> arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>>> > Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>>> > have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>>> > Edith's death was necessary.
>>>
>>> I don't even understand why this is a question. They don't have a time
>>> machine, or a starship to slingshot around the sun, or contact with the
>>> Guardian, and they're not even sure what's supposed to happen. They
>>> just blunder around until Edith gets killed and *pop* they're back to
>>> the future. Even if they were sure of the correct timeline, what were
>>> they supposed to do, yell into the air HEY GUARDIAN WE'VE GOT EDITH HERE
>>> HOW ABOUT YOU RETRIEVE US ALL? And they couldn't even do THAT until
>>> they found McCoy, and they didn't find McCoy until Edith had about 30
>>> seconds to live. Even if they had hatched such a scheme, even if such a
>>> scheme would have worked, they still wouldn't have been able to pull it
>>> off.
>>>
>>> Let's play it out. Kirk and Spock find McCoy. Edith, on her way to a
>>> movie that won't come out for years yet so the timeline is already
>>> hosed, steps out in front of a lumbering beer truck. Kirk lets McCoy
>>> save her and ... now what? Nothing happens. They all hang around the
>>> soup kitchen until Edith gets a little too mouthy about being nice to
>>> the Nazis and Spock, having had enough, hits her with the Vulcan Death
>>> Grip. Same outcome, just delayed.
>>
>>
>> Much better episode, and a sure Emmy nod for Nimoy. Another missed
>> opportunity.
>>
>
> <snort> Nobody gets an Emmy for a performance on a science fiction
> series.


Yeah, and there's no such thing as a Vulcan Death Grip, either.

I guess the sarcasm went whoosh?
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264883 is a reply to message #264878] Wed, 20 August 2014 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
anim8rFSK is currently offline  anim8rFSK
Messages: 215
Registered: July 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
In article <190820142204529682%nope@noway.com>,
A Friend <nope@noway.com> wrote:

> In article <lt0k87$8rd$1@dont-email.me>, David Johnston
> <David@block.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/19/2014 4:26 PM, A Friend wrote:
>>> In article <anim8rfsk-82A9E1.12222119082014@news.easynews.com>,
>>> anim8rFSK <anim8rfsk@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
>>>> arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > In article <140720142230201794%nope@noway.com>, A Friend <A Friend>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >> What's also not explained is why Kirk and
>>>> >> Spock simply didn't take Edith with them into the future, which would
>>>> >> have effectively "killed" her in 1930. Neither story ever explains why
>>>> >> Edith's death was necessary.
>>>>
>>>> I don't even understand why this is a question. They don't have a time
>>>> machine, or a starship to slingshot around the sun, or contact with the
>>>> Guardian, and they're not even sure what's supposed to happen. They
>>>> just blunder around until Edith gets killed and *pop* they're back to
>>>> the future. Even if they were sure of the correct timeline, what were
>>>> they supposed to do, yell into the air HEY GUARDIAN WE'VE GOT EDITH HERE
>>>> HOW ABOUT YOU RETRIEVE US ALL? And they couldn't even do THAT until
>>>> they found McCoy, and they didn't find McCoy until Edith had about 30
>>>> seconds to live. Even if they had hatched such a scheme, even if such a
>>>> scheme would have worked, they still wouldn't have been able to pull it
>>>> off.
>>>>
>>>> Let's play it out. Kirk and Spock find McCoy. Edith, on her way to a
>>>> movie that won't come out for years yet so the timeline is already
>>>> hosed, steps out in front of a lumbering beer truck. Kirk lets McCoy
>>>> save her and ... now what? Nothing happens. They all hang around the
>>>> soup kitchen until Edith gets a little too mouthy about being nice to
>>>> the Nazis and Spock, having had enough, hits her with the Vulcan Death
>>>> Grip. Same outcome, just delayed.
>>>
>>>
>>> Much better episode, and a sure Emmy nod for Nimoy. Another missed
>>> opportunity.
>>>
>>
>> <snort> Nobody gets an Emmy for a performance on a science fiction
>> series.
>
>
> Yeah, and there's no such thing as a Vulcan Death Grip, either.
>
> I guess the sarcasm went whoosh?

:)

--
Wait - are you saying that ClodReamer was wrong, or lying?
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264970 is a reply to message #264842] Thu, 21 August 2014 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
goldfarb is currently offline  goldfarb
Messages: 20
Registered: June 2012
Karma: 0
Junior Member
In article <lt03gq$b59$1@blue-new.rahul.net>,
Ken Arromdee <arromdee@rahul.net> wrote:
> You know, I always wondered whi in Doctor Who the Doctor didn't take Adric
> off of that freighter. After all, all that is necessary for history is that
> the freighter crash, not that Adric be on it.

As I recall, Tegan made that exact point at the start of the very
next episode. The Doctor said it wasn't possible, although he
didn't give any very satisfactory explanation as to why.

--
David Goldfarb |"Steppe nomads are a lot less frightening since
goldfarbdj@gmail.com | tanks were invented."
goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Graydon
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #264978 is a reply to message #264970] Thu, 21 August 2014 08:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Adam H. Kerman is currently offline  Adam H. Kerman
Messages: 19
Registered: March 2013
Karma: 0
Junior Member
David Goldfarb <goldfarbdj@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken Arromdee <arromdee@rahul.net> wrote:

>> You know, I always wondered whi in Doctor Who the Doctor didn't take Adric
>> off of that freighter. After all, all that is necessary for history is that
>> the freighter crash, not that Adric be on it.

> As I recall, Tegan made that exact point at the start of the very
> next episode. The Doctor said it wasn't possible, although he
> didn't give any very satisfactory explanation as to why.

Similarly, when encountering enemies that they didn't have the means to
kill, why not put them on that freighter?
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #265050 is a reply to message #264978] Thu, 21 August 2014 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
arromdee is currently offline  arromdee
Messages: 59
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Member
In article <lt4nsc$9i6$2@news.albasani.net>,
Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>> You know, I always wondered whi in Doctor Who the Doctor didn't take Adric
>>> off of that freighter. After all, all that is necessary for history is that
>>> the freighter crash, not that Adric be on it.
>> As I recall, Tegan made that exact point at the start of the very
>> next episode. The Doctor said it wasn't possible, although he
>> didn't give any very satisfactory explanation as to why.
> Similarly, when encountering enemies that they didn't have the means to
> kill, why not put them on that freighter?

Because the freighter isn't special. Any enemy that could be killed that way
could also be killed by dumping it into the sun or any of a number of other
methods.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee

Some fanfic writers really like listening to Evanescence, so they decide to
make all the characters fans of it. Slash fiction is the same, but with
penises instead of Evanescence.
Re: IDW Does Harlan Ellison [message #265203 is a reply to message #264842] Sun, 24 August 2014 05:25 Go to previous message
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: MDuPree

arromdee@rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) writes:

> You know, I always wondered whi in Doctor Who the Doctor didn't take
> Adric off of that freighter. After all, all that is necessary for
> history is that the freighter crash, not that Adric be on it.
>
> "Waters of Mars" has a complaint that is even closer to yours.

I wondered at the time why the Doctor couldn't just take those people on
Mars to an uninhabited planet and let them live out their days. It was
evidently important to history that Earth believe them dead, not that
they actually be dead.

I never saw the reasoning behind why it was O.K. to save some people
from the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius, but not save other people from that
or other disasters. It makes it seem like Adric's problem was simply
that he wasn't holding the winning lotto ticket in the Doctor's Get Out
of Death Free Sweepstakes.

Basically, sometimes the writers want death to win, and sometimes they
want the Doctor to win. The rules don't matter.

-Micky
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