Megalextoria
Retro computing and gaming, sci-fi books, tv and movies and other geeky stuff.

Home » Digital Archaeology » Computer Arcana » Commodore » Commodore 8-bit » SuperCPU - is anyone still interested?
Show: Today's Messages :: Show Polls :: Message Navigator
E-mail to friend 
Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251464] Sun, 11 May 2014 09:27 Go to next message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Okay, I know the answer from 'Greopaz' (which is an anagram of Zap Ogre - true fact), but is anyone still interested in the SuperCPU in terms of development or new software?

For instance, I know someone who is developing a custom ROM as a replacement for the SCPU, some of which I've been testing on my 128. He's put in a lot of effort and I guess it's to his personal satisfaction as to why he's got so far, and he's very ambitious about how it should continue. But other than myself and the few SCPU owners here in the UK, who's still interested anyway? As (1) he's not doing demo software and (2) he's not writing entertainment software.

Regards,

Shaun.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251474 is a reply to message #251464] Sun, 11 May 2014 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Förster is currently offline  Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Hi Shaun,

> Okay, I know the answer from 'Greopaz' (which is an anagram of Zap Ogre
> - true fact), but is anyone still interested in the SuperCPU in terms
> of development or new software?
>
> For instance, I know someone who is developing a custom ROM as a
> replacement for the SCPU, some of which I've been testing on my 128.
> He's put in a lot of effort and I guess it's to his personal
> satisfaction as to why he's got so far, and he's very ambitious about
> how it should continue. But other than myself and the few SCPU owners
> here in the UK, who's still interested anyway? As (1) he's not doing
> demo software and (2) he's not writing entertainment software.

I guess, few people are interested because there are so few SuperCPUs.
I would have bought one if I could back then. But I was too late then
already, when Maurice Randall stopped production. Now there's the TC64
which is about equally fast, some operations are somewhat faster,
others a little slower, but bottom line, it runs like Schmitt's rabbit.
:-P And it has a lot more to offer than just plain CPU speed. So I
would buy a SuperCPU only for the sake of heaving a collectible item in
my collection but not to have a SuperCPU per se. Too little software
available and little use. So it's barely worth it nowadays. Just my
opinion.
--
cul8er

Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251475 is a reply to message #251474] Sun, 11 May 2014 15:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
> I guess, few people are interested because there are so few SuperCPUs.

Indeed there are.

> I would have bought one if I could back then. But I was too late then
> already, when Maurice Randall stopped production. Now there's the TC64
> which is about equally fast, some operations are somewhat faster,
> others a little slower, but bottom line, it runs like Schmitt's rabbit.
> :-P And it has a lot more to offer than just plain CPU speed.

The SuperCPU offers more than just CPU speed, ie, C128 support and a 65816 instruction set.

> So I would buy a SuperCPU only for the sake of heaving a collectible
> item in my collection but not to have a SuperCPU per se. Too little
> software available and little use. So it's barely worth it nowadays.
> Just my opinion.

I do know someone who wants to sell a SCPU 128 (which is the best version to buy even if you only own a C64) but I think he's thinking of the $$$ he can make.

Anyway, there is always the emulator, in which case, everyone is welcome to at least try this software.

Regards,

Shaun.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251476 is a reply to message #251475] Sun, 11 May 2014 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Förster is currently offline  Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Hi Shaun,

> The SuperCPU offers more than just CPU speed, ie, C128 support and a
> 65816 instruction set.

it's exactly that instruction set which shys away people because it
runs on so few platforms.

> I do know someone who wants to sell a SCPU 128 (which is the best
> version to buy even if you only own a C64) but I think he's thinking of
> the $$$ he can make.

Maurice could have made $$$ if he fulfilled the demand. I used to order
one back then through a German dealer and had big trouble getting my
money back after more than a year and no device. I got my money finally
back but that really sucked. And not a single word from Maurice back
then. That is not what I call fulfilling demand.

> Anyway, there is always the emulator, in which case, everyone is
> welcome to at least try this software.

but emus are not the real thing. :(
--
cul8er

Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251477 is a reply to message #251476] Sun, 11 May 2014 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sunday, 11 May 2014 20:46:52 UTC+1, Paul Förster wrote:
>> The SuperCPU offers more than just CPU speed, ie, C128 support and a
>> 65816 instruction set.
> it's exactly that instruction set which shys away people because it
> runs on so few platforms.

Not sure about that - people shied away for more reasons that the processor: some people because of it only really being useful for GEOS, others because anything other than 1mhz/1541 was 'cheating', some due to expense of the original device back when CMD were selling them, no demos/games etc...

>> I do know someone who wants to sell a SCPU 128 (which is the best
>> version to buy even if you only own a C64) but I think he's thinking of
>> the $$$ he can make.
>
> Maurice could have made $$$ if he fulfilled the demand. I used to order
> one back then through a German dealer and had big trouble getting my
> money back after more than a year and no device. I got my money finally
> back but that really sucked. And not a single word from Maurice back
> then. That is not what I call fulfilling demand.

Indeed - well efforts have been made to get the SuperCPU back in production as late as back in April 2014 from what I understand. Obviously nothing has come of it though

>> Anyway, there is always the emulator, in which case, everyone is
>> welcome to at least try this software.
>
> but emus are not the real thing. :(

Indeed, but at least if you can see 'new' software or developments, you have more confidence in getting hold of the real hardware.

Take care,

Shaun.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251481 is a reply to message #251475] Sun, 11 May 2014 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dombo is currently offline  Dombo
Messages: 209
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Op 11-May-14 21:05, Shaun Bebbington schreef:
>> I guess, few people are interested because there are so few SuperCPUs.
>
> Indeed there are.
>
>> I would have bought one if I could back then. But I was too late then
>> already, when Maurice Randall stopped production. Now there's the TC64
>> which is about equally fast, some operations are somewhat faster,
>> others a little slower, but bottom line, it runs like Schmitt's rabbit.
>> :-P And it has a lot more to offer than just plain CPU speed.
>
> The SuperCPU offers more than just CPU speed, ie, C128 support and a 65816 instruction set.

Which also adds incompatibility with C64 software that uses undocumented
opcodes.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251482 is a reply to message #251477] Sun, 11 May 2014 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Paul Förster is currently offline  Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Hi Shaun,

> Indeed - well efforts have been made to get the SuperCPU back in
> production as late as back in April 2014 from what I understand.
> Obviously nothing has come of it though

well, if it got into production again for a reasonable price and
*reliable* delivery then I'd probably buy one. I just don't want that
experience again that I made back then!

> Indeed, but at least if you can see 'new' software or developments, you
> have more confidence in getting hold of the real hardware.

hmmm, maybe, but having a quick look at something knowing that one
cannot have it anyway on the real thing may be considered a waste of
time for some people, for me at least. I use emus, they're very handy.
Still, I prefer real hardware.
--
cul8er

Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251483 is a reply to message #251464] Sun, 11 May 2014 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dombo is currently offline  Dombo
Messages: 209
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
Op 11-May-14 15:27, Shaun Bebbington schreef:
> Okay, I know the answer from 'Greopaz' (which is an anagram of Zap
> Ogre - true fact), but is anyone still interested in the SuperCPU in
> terms of development or new software?
>
> For instance, I know someone who is developing a custom ROM as a
> replacement for the SCPU, some of which I've been testing on my 128.
> He's put in a lot of effort and I guess it's to his personal
> satisfaction as to why he's got so far, and he's very ambitious about
> how it should continue. But other than myself and the few SCPU owners
> here in the UK, who's still interested anyway? As (1) he's not doing
> demo software and (2) he's not writing entertainment software.

One question is what are the real C64's being used for today? My guess
is that these days it is mostly to relive the good old days and play
games on it once in awhile. The next question is how would the SuperCPU
improve that experience?

In the days GEOS on C64 was still a (somewhat) viable productivity
platform the SuperCPU made a lot of sense. However that was 20+ years
ago, these days I doubt many people regularly use their C64 to run GEOS
(or other productivity software); a PC would be better for that in just
about every conceivable way. AFAIK there is very few other software that
takes advantage of the SuperCPU.

So for me personally I can see little or no use for the SuperCPU.
Products like TC64, uIEC, 1541 Ultimate II...etc make more sense to me
as they add a lot of convenience for the things I do (very occasionally)
use a real C64 for.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251484 is a reply to message #251483] Sun, 11 May 2014 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sunday, 11 May 2014 22:35:17 UTC+1, Dombo wrote:
> One question is what are the real C64's being used for today? My guess
> is that these days it is mostly to relive the good old days and play
> games on it once in awhile. The next question is how would the SuperCPU
> improve that experience?

The SuperCPU was never intended as a gaming device. CMD made it to support GEOS. But assuming that you only play games on your Commodore then, of the games that work best, the Freescape games are given a new lease of life and are probably the best examples of "what to do with a SuperCPU"

> In the days GEOS on C64 was still a (somewhat) viable productivity
> platform the SuperCPU made a lot of sense. However that was 20+ years
> ago, these days I doubt many people regularly use their C64 to run GEOS
> (or other productivity software); a PC would be better for that in just
> about every conceivable way. AFAIK there is very few other software that
> takes advantage of the SuperCPU.

Which is why CMD made it to work with GEOS.

> So for me personally I can see little or no use for the SuperCPU.
> Products like TC64, uIEC, 1541 Ultimate II...etc make more sense to me
> as they add a lot of convenience for the things I do (very occasionally)
> use a real C64 for.

As does the RAMLink or CMD HD, which have fairly significant performance boosts with a SuperCPU as CMD designed it to work with their other devices as well.

Regards,

Shaun.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251486 is a reply to message #251484] Sun, 11 May 2014 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clocky is currently offline  Clocky
Messages: 1212
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On 12/05/2014 5:51 AM, Shaun Bebbington wrote:
> On Sunday, 11 May 2014 22:35:17 UTC+1, Dombo wrote:
>> One question is what are the real C64's being used for today? My guess
>> is that these days it is mostly to relive the good old days and play
>> games on it once in awhile. The next question is how would the SuperCPU
>> improve that experience?
>
> The SuperCPU was never intended as a gaming device. CMD made it to support GEOS. But assuming that you only play games on your Commodore then, of the games that work best, the Freescape games are given a new lease of life and are probably the best examples of "what to do with a SuperCPU"
>
>> In the days GEOS on C64 was still a (somewhat) viable productivity
>> platform the SuperCPU made a lot of sense. However that was 20+ years
>> ago, these days I doubt many people regularly use their C64 to run GEOS
>> (or other productivity software); a PC would be better for that in just
>> about every conceivable way. AFAIK there is very few other software that
>> takes advantage of the SuperCPU.
>
> Which is why CMD made it to work with GEOS.
>
>> So for me personally I can see little or no use for the SuperCPU.
>> Products like TC64, uIEC, 1541 Ultimate II...etc make more sense to me
>> as they add a lot of convenience for the things I do (very occasionally)
>> use a real C64 for.
>
> As does the RAMLink or CMD HD, which have fairly significant performance boosts with a SuperCPU as CMD designed it to work with their other devices as well.
>
> Regards,
>
> Shaun.
>

I personally can't see the attraction of spending $1000 or more just so
I can run GEOS, in itself well past it's use-by date in terms of a
viable productivity environment.

The few other games and applications that support it are not worth the
significant investment. So that leaves nostalgia... well nothing there
either since I've never owned a Super-CPU and rarely booted GEOS on a
vanilla C64 back in the day.

OTOH something like the uIEC is a fantastically useful device.

I can't speak for others, but that is my point of view.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251500 is a reply to message #251464] Sun, 11 May 2014 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hg is currently offline  Hg
Messages: 162
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
A few months ago I did a search for SCPU-only demos on CSDB. Just out
of curiosity to see what could be done with that CPU expander. A lot
of demos were more than ten years ago and they were quite impressive-
but I noted that clever recent demo programming has almost equalled
the effects possible with the SCPU.
Of course, if everyone had a SCPU then who knows what would have been
possible by now had that same clever coding been applied to the SCPU.

In a similar way it's a shame Commodore never replaced the C64 with
the C128 entirely (i.e. by stopping C64 production). That would have
raised the bar of software by several levels.
Oh well, even with being confined to C64 only hardware 99% of software
was better quality than on all the other 8-bit competitor machines.


--
T
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251508 is a reply to message #251464] Mon, 12 May 2014 00:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RobertB is currently offline  RobertB
Messages: 4798
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Sunday, May 11, 2014 6:27:02 AM UTC-7, Shaun Bebbington wrote:

> ...is anyone still interested in the SuperCPU in terms of development or new software?

Of course I'm interested!

> For instance, I know someone who is developing a custom ROM as a replacement for the SCPU,
> some of which I've been testing on my 128.

Oh, that's really interesting! Can you speak about what features the ROM will have?

Thanks for the SCPU demos you created,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251509 is a reply to message #251486] Mon, 12 May 2014 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Monday, 12 May 2014 00:23:30 UTC+1, Clocky wrote:
> I personally can't see the attraction of spending $1000 or more just so
> I can run GEOS, in itself well past it's use-by date in terms of a
> viable productivity environment.

Indeed, now there is no attraction for most people. Back when CMD were selling
the SuperCPU, it was not $1000+ - I know because I purchased one. But even then
there was no attraction for most people because it was deemed expensive, or
'cheating', or one of many other reasons not to buy one.

Regards,

Shaun.
Re: SuperCPU - is anyone still interested? [message #251510 is a reply to message #251508] Mon, 12 May 2014 01:30 Go to previous message
commodorecomputerclub is currently offline  commodorecomputerclub
Messages: 132
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
Senior Member
On Monday, 12 May 2014 05:45:48 UTC+1, rber...@iglou.com wrote:
> Of course I'm interested!

I expected this :-) I hope that you are well Robert!

> Oh, that's really interesting! Can you speak about what features the ROM
> will have?

It's been in development for a couple of years now and most of the guts of the
GUI side have been written and tested. I think the 65816 support for the latest
version of CBM prg Studio is either a consequence or related to this custom ROM
development. The idea is to have a choice to boot to the GUI or to an enchanced
version of BASIC (at the moment). CBM BASIC v7 is currently being disassembled
so the possibility is that will replace BASIC v2 on the C64 (or BASIC v7 will
run in 64 mode as well).

> Thanks for the SCPU demos you created,

Those bits and pieces aren't really demos, I released them to mark the 50th
anniversary of the programming language BASIC, for my own satisfaction. I'm
currently working on something better, of course. Most of my findings may
be found at http://www.melon64.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=24 (that's not a typo -
it's really Melon64).

My work will be done when I've released 50 BASIC programs for its 50th year, so
my very own Cascade Cassette 50 if you like, full of rubbish. I'm programming
these things to be SuperCPU aware because BASIC is slow @ 1mhz and there's no
point in programming for the 1mhz machine as an amateur enthusiast like myself.

Regards,

Shaun.
  Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic: Reset magazine #03 released! (fwd)
Next Topic: Harry Potter: info on my works published!
Goto Forum:
  

-=] Back to Top [=-
[ Syndicate this forum (XML) ] [ RSS ] [ PDF ]

Current Time: Tue Feb 07 22:54:07 EST 2023

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01766 seconds