| C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248869] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 10:45  |
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Originally posted by: Simon Ferber
Hi,
iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
"The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal
notation, 32 becomes $20. After such a long time, more and more C64
boards are failing and can't be repaired any more: Even after exchanging
all chips, a board may still not work. A possible cause for this is a
defect of the circuit board, which is extremely tedious and expensive to
find and fix.
We will therefore produce new C64 mainboards shortly. We have kept close
to the schematics of Commodore Assy number 250466, because this version
is accepted to be the best compromise between cost savings and
compatibility. We have only changed the circuit in very few places, so
production is still possible with parts that are available today.
...."
(Source: http://www.icomp.de/home/indexe.htm)
--
Kiwi - a 68k Homebrew Computer
Website: http://www.ist-schlau.de
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/Bogog75
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Kiwi68k
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248884 is a reply to message #248869] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 12:22  |
Clocky
Messages: 1212
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 7/04/2014 10:45 PM, Simon Ferber wrote:
> Hi,
>
> iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
>
> "The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
> that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal
> notation, 32 becomes $20. After such a long time, more and more C64
> boards are failing and can't be repaired any more: Even after exchanging
> all chips, a board may still not work. A possible cause for this is a
> defect of the circuit board, which is extremely tedious and expensive to
> find and fix.
>
> We will therefore produce new C64 mainboards shortly. We have kept close
> to the schematics of Commodore Assy number 250466, because this version
> is accepted to be the best compromise between cost savings and
> compatibility. We have only changed the circuit in very few places, so
> production is still possible with parts that are available today.
>
> ..."
>
> (Source: http://www.icomp.de/home/indexe.htm)
>
Belated April fools I'd say ;-)
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248939 is a reply to message #248869] |
Mon, 07 April 2014 21:34 |
Hg
Messages: 162
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 07/04/2014 19:45, Simon Ferber wrote:
> Hi,
>
> iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
>
> "The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
> that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal
> notation, 32 becomes $20. After such a long time, more and more C64
> boards are failing and can't be repaired any more: Even after exchanging
> all chips, a board may still not work. A possible cause for this is a
> defect of the circuit board, which is extremely tedious and expensive to
> find and fix.
>
> We will therefore produce new C64 mainboards shortly. We have kept close
> to the schematics of Commodore Assy number 250466, because this version
> is accepted to be the best compromise between cost savings and
> compatibility. We have only changed the circuit in very few places, so
> production is still possible with parts that are available today.
>
> ..."
>
> (Source: http://www.icomp.de/home/indexe.htm)
>
Produce a similar board for the C128 and that would cover 90%+ of the
people who make the effort to use real 64s and 128s.
--
T
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248944 is a reply to message #248926] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 01:08 |
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Originally posted by: Frank Buss
Clocky wrote:
>
> I've rarely had a C64 with board failure in 20 years let alone any that
> couldn't be easily repaired.
> Given that a lot of the chips will need to be desoldered (which always
> carries a risk) off the old board unless you plan on finding and buying
> them all individually, the obvious question is, why?
Later in the thread he says, that he might sell it with all chips
populated, except SID and CPU. But right, I wonder why so many people
are interested in it, I won't buy it. The only advantage compared to an
original board is the s-video output and the better power regulator
(high efficiency, it's "green" :-)
--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248946 is a reply to message #248912] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 03:54 |
Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Chris,
On 2014-04-07 19:57:17 +0000, cts3000 said:
> I'm still waiting for the SuperCPU cartridge with a VGA port. ;)
well, why not buy a Turbo Chameleon 64? It has a VGA port and can be
run at different speeds. The TC64 can be used as standalone C64, on a
dock, which provides 4 joystick ports too, and it can be used as a cart
with a real C64. I have two of them and they are worth every cent. :-)
--
cul8er
Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248947 is a reply to message #248926] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 04:01 |
Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Clocky,
On 2014-04-07 22:58:58 +0000, Clocky said:
> I've rarely had a C64 with board failure in 20 years let alone any that
> couldn't be easily repaired.
> Given that a lot of the chips will need to be desoldered (which always
> carries a risk) off the old board unless you plan on finding and buying
> them all individually, the obvious question is, why?
well, to the contrary. I have seen quite a number of boards fail due to
*too* cheap mass production. I have one board that is damaged beyond
repair. Sometimes, even with a definitely not too hot iron, the traces
fall off which is ugly. So, some of my boards look more like a loose
bunch of wire strap technology. :-( But only one of my boards is
definitely far beyond repair. The traces already fall off if you merely
look at it... But luckily, most of my boards still are in quite good
condition.
> C64's are not exactly rare, most people capable of chip swapping
> already have an abundance of C64's I would think.
not everyone has a huge stock. I have, but many others probably not.
--
cul8er
Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248957 is a reply to message #248947] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 10:16 |
Clocky
Messages: 1212
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 8/04/2014 4:01 PM, Paul Förster wrote:
> Hi Clocky,
>
> On 2014-04-07 22:58:58 +0000, Clocky said:
>> I've rarely had a C64 with board failure in 20 years let alone any
>> that couldn't be easily repaired.
>> Given that a lot of the chips will need to be desoldered (which always
>> carries a risk) off the old board unless you plan on finding and
>> buying them all individually, the obvious question is, why?
>
> well, to the contrary. I have seen quite a number of boards fail due to
> *too* cheap mass production. I have one board that is damaged beyond
> repair. Sometimes, even with a definitely not too hot iron, the traces
> fall off which is ugly.
I've repaired many, many C64's including very many chip removals and I
can only remember one pad lifting that needed repair and that was before
I had a desoldering station.
Not too long ago I desoldered all the chips and socketed them, over 250
desoldering and soldering operations (using a desoldering station) and
not one lifted pad.
So, in my experience Commodore boards to be pretty robust compared to
some other 80's retro computers and consoles, much more so then more
recent stuff.
So, some of my boards look more like a loose
> bunch of wire strap technology. :-( But only one of my boards is
> definitely far beyond repair. The traces already fall off if you merely
> look at it... But luckily, most of my boards still are in quite good
> condition.
>
I think you might want to consider using the right tools for the job and
perhaps working on your technique if your boards end up that damaged.
>> C64's are not exactly rare, most people capable of chip swapping
>> already have an abundance of C64's I would think.
>
> not everyone has a huge stock. I have, but many others probably not.
There is no shortage of C64's, and of those that aren't working only an
insignificant percentage would be due to board failure.
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248969 is a reply to message #248944] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 10:27 |
Clocky
Messages: 1212
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 8/04/2014 1:08 PM, Frank Buss wrote:
> Clocky wrote:
>>
>> I've rarely had a C64 with board failure in 20 years let alone any that
>> couldn't be easily repaired.
>> Given that a lot of the chips will need to be desoldered (which always
>> carries a risk) off the old board unless you plan on finding and buying
>> them all individually, the obvious question is, why?
>
> Later in the thread he says, that he might sell it with all chips
> populated, except SID and CPU.
CPU or did you mean the VIC-II? Sourcing 6510's isn't trivial, and many
weren't socketed so that still requires desoldering if you hope to
salvage them from an existing board.
But right, I wonder why so many people
> are interested in it, I won't buy it.
Are people interested, really?
I mean, if the choice is between soldering a wire from point A to B in
the unlikely event that a board has a fault, or buying a new board,
fitting all the chips, possibly having to desolder some and then hope
you haven't damaged them in the process... hmmm... tough choice.
The only advantage compared to an
> original board is the s-video output and the better power regulator
> (high efficiency, it's "green" :-)
>
Big deal ;-)
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248971 is a reply to message #248969] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 11:24 |
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Originally posted by: Frank Buss
Clocky wrote:
> On 8/04/2014 1:08 PM, Frank Buss wrote:
>> Clocky wrote:
>>>
>>> I've rarely had a C64 with board failure in 20 years let alone any that
>>> couldn't be easily repaired.
>>> Given that a lot of the chips will need to be desoldered (which always
>>> carries a risk) off the old board unless you plan on finding and buying
>>> them all individually, the obvious question is, why?
>>
>> Later in the thread he says, that he might sell it with all chips
>> populated, except SID and CPU.
>
> CPU or did you mean the VIC-II? Sourcing 6510's isn't trivial, and many
> weren't socketed so that still requires desoldering if you hope to
> salvage them from an existing board.
Right, might be a problem. Jens wrote he will provide anything (he has a
stock of VIC and other chips), but the 6510 and SID. So you have to
desolder it, or try to get it from eBay.
> Are people interested, really?
Yes, there are a dozen people in the thread at the forum who wrote that
they want to buy one or even two boards.
--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #248992 is a reply to message #248869] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 17:51 |
not
Messages: 73
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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Member |
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Simon Ferber <simon@ist-schlau.de> wrote:
> iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
>
> "The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
> that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal
> notation, 32 becomes $20.
If that means they will cost $20 each, I want to know who makes his PCBs.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249002 is a reply to message #249001] |
Tue, 08 April 2014 20:03 |
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Originally posted by: Frank Buss
Clocky wrote:
> "Frank Buss" <fb@frank-buss.de> wrote in message
> news:li1voe$2ke$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de...
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> Simon Ferber <simon@ist-schlau.de> wrote:
>>>> iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
>>>>
>>>> "The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
>>>> that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in hexadecimal
>>>> notation, 32 becomes $20.
>>>
>>> If that means they will cost $20 each, I want to know who makes his PCBs.
>>
>> See later in the article http://www.icomp.de/news/news147_e.htm :
>>
>> "C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july 2014
>> for 149,90 EUR"
>>
>
>
> That's about $220 Australian for a bare board.
Not just the board, you get it with all chips like VIC, CIA, the new
power supply etc. You have to provide the SID and CPU, only, and insert
it in the nice ZIF sockets. But right, still expensive for a simple
replacement with not much more features than the original. Nevertheless
the price is reasonable, because of the low production volume.
--
Frank Buss, http://www.frank-buss.de
electronics and more: http://www.youtube.com/user/frankbuss
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249022 is a reply to message #249002] |
Wed, 09 April 2014 07:12 |
Clocky
Messages: 1212
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Frank Buss" <fb@frank-buss.de> wrote in message
news:li22nk$4oq$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de...
> Clocky wrote:
>> "Frank Buss" <fb@frank-buss.de> wrote in message
>> news:li1voe$2ke$1@newsreader4.netcologne.de...
>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> Simon Ferber <simon@ist-schlau.de> wrote:
>>>> > iComp will produce new C64 mainboards:
>>>> >
>>>> > "The Commodore 64 will celebrate it's 32nd birthday this year, and
>>>> > that's a significant birthday for a Computer: If written in
>>>> > hexadecimal
>>>> > notation, 32 becomes $20.
>>>>
>>>> If that means they will cost $20 each, I want to know who makes his
>>>> PCBs.
>>>
>>> See later in the article http://www.icomp.de/news/news147_e.htm :
>>>
>>> "C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july 2014
>>> for 149,90 EUR"
>>>
>>
>>
>> That's about $220 Australian for a bare board.
>
> Not just the board, you get it with all chips like VIC, CIA, the new
> power supply etc. You have to provide the SID and CPU, only, and insert
> it in the nice ZIF sockets. But right, still expensive for a simple
> replacement with not much more features than the original. Nevertheless
> the price is reasonable, because of the low production volume.
Almost fully populated and with the extras, sure, that's not a bad price.
I have no use for such a thing however.
..
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249109 is a reply to message #249103] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 03:48 |
not
Messages: 73
Registered: February 2013
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cts3000 <cts3000@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am surprised that it doesn't have an
> extra SID socket?
If it came with all the new hardware add-ons worked in, it would
make a lot more sense to me. uIEC, dual SIDs, extra RAM, selectable
ROMs... I'm sure such a thing would have a much wider appeal, but
it would be a lot more work to design as well.
--
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#_ < |\| |< _#
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249111 is a reply to message #249109] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 06:23 |
Hg
Messages: 162
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 10/04/2014 12:48, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> cts3000 <cts3000@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am surprised that it doesn't have an
>> extra SID socket?
>
> If it came with all the new hardware add-ons worked in, it would
> make a lot more sense to me. uIEC, dual SIDs, extra RAM, selectable
> ROMs... I'm sure such a thing would have a much wider appeal, but
> it would be a lot more work to design as well.
>
True, and I would sure like to have all those extra enhancements as
well though in my mind a near 100% compatible C128 Reloaded is a far
more important priority than optional extras.
--
T
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249119 is a reply to message #249111] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 08:26 |
Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Hg,
On 2014-04-10 10:23:49 +0000, Hg said:
> True, and I would sure like to have all those extra enhancements as
> well though in my mind a near 100% compatible C128 Reloaded is a far
> more important priority than optional extras.
especially when considering that most of the board is empty and leaves
plenty of room for adding those extras by oneself. :-)
--
cul8er
Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249146 is a reply to message #248946] |
Thu, 10 April 2014 11:03 |
cts3000
Messages: 153
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 3:54:47 AM UTC-4, Paul Förster wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
>
>
> On 2014-04-07 19:57:17 +0000, cts3000 said:
>
>> I'm still waiting for the SuperCPU cartridge with a VGA port. ;)
>
>
>
> well, why not buy a Turbo Chameleon 64? It has a VGA port and can be
>
> run at different speeds. The TC64 can be used as standalone C64, on a
>
> dock, which provides 4 joystick ports too, and it can be used as a cart
>
> with a real C64. I have two of them and they are worth every cent. :-)
>
> --
>
> cul8er
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> paul.foerster@gmx.net
I will have to take a look at it
again.
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249210 is a reply to message #249000] |
Fri, 11 April 2014 09:19 |
Chris Baird
Messages: 172
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> "C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july
> 2014 for 149,90 EUR"
Which is close to what I guessed it would be. PCB etching companies have
almost exponential rates when it comes to board size.
The going rate for 2nd-hand C64s on sites like Gumtree is only half of
that though-- and you get ICs and casing with it too..
--
Chris
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249215 is a reply to message #249210] |
Fri, 11 April 2014 10:43 |
Payton Byrd
Messages: 1198
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On Friday, April 11, 2014 8:19:09 AM UTC-5, Chris Baird wrote:
>> "C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july
>
>> 2014 for 149,90 EUR"
>
>
>
> Which is close to what I guessed it would be. PCB etching companies have
>
> almost exponential rates when it comes to board size.
>
>
>
> The going rate for 2nd-hand C64s on sites like Gumtree is only half of
>
> that though-- and you get ICs and casing with it too..
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris
Yes, but you get the PLA crapshoot whenever you buy one from eBay or other online sources. These come complete except the 6510 and SID, both of which are typically easily retrieved from non-working systems. Plus, the new boards don't use the Commodore Power Brick of Doom and provide S-VIDEO directly on the board. Sounds like a win-win to me.
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249258 is a reply to message #249210] |
Fri, 11 April 2014 19:26 |
not
Messages: 73
Registered: February 2013
Karma: 0
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Chris Baird <abuse@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:
>> "C64 Reloaded will be available in limited quantity starting july
>> 2014 for 149,90 EUR"
>
> The going rate for 2nd-hand C64s on sites like Gumtree is only half of
> that though-- and you get ICs and casing with it too..
Sure, but more to the point a plain C64 board without its case can go
for around $30.00.
I can see how this sort of thing would make sense for a KIM-1, but a
C64 PCB seems like a wierd choice for reproduction.
--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #249279 is a reply to message #249258] |
Fri, 11 April 2014 23:00 |
Chris Baird
Messages: 172
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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> I can see how this sort of thing would make sense for a KIM-1, but a
> C64 PCB seems like a wierd choice for reproduction.
There has been a SYM-1 reboot.. http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2445
Very much a "shut up and take my money!" :) .. Although Andy hasn't
worked on taking it to production. He put a number of great improvements
on the original as well, that were /sorely needed/ (an ACIA!!!) when I
was SYM-hacking.
--
Chris
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| Re: C64 Reloaded (New C64 mainboards) [message #271555 is a reply to message #271542] |
Mon, 27 October 2014 08:50 |
Paul Förster
Messages: 415
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Hi Dag,
On 2014-10-27 04:40:13 +0000, Dag Jacobs said:
> Any news ? Was supposed to be initially available some time ago ?
I asked Jens about this quite a while ago and he said something like he
wanted to get the Chameleon core finally out of beta status. So that
has priority for him, which I can understand. Looking at the current
rate of progress, this will take quite some time, though.
Hope this helps.
--
cul8er
Paul
paul.foerster@gmx.net
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