|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202012 is a reply to message #202003] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 11:53   |
Amigoat
Messages: 87
Registered: November 2012
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
On Sep 5, 11:47 pm, Gary <ga...@efn.org.spamsux> wrote:
> I don't know if anyone else here is on maniomio's mailing list but they've
> finally released their C64 emulator for the iPhone through the iTunes App
> Store;http://c64.manomio.com
>
> -Gary
One of the games shown is "Arctic Shipwreck". I don't think I've ever
heard of it - does it exist in 'real C64' format?
Ernie
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone - BEWARE [message #202016 is a reply to message #202003] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 13:03 |
Sean Huxter
Messages: 220
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
BEWARE!
Do NOT call this a C64 emulator. I jumped onto the ap store and bought this
software faster than you can blink after reading the description.
The first thing I was met with is the power-up screen which states that
BASIC is not yet available (possibly in a future update), and that there are
five games included, and more may come later.
If I can't have access to the drives, .d64 files, and the real BASIC prompt
of the C64, this is not an emulator, or at least not a complete one.
It is a PARTIAL emulator which right now does nothing but play five
pre-packed games, and none of which are terribly good. Certainly none of the
classics are included.
I'm not saying don't buy it. I'm just saying be better-educated than I was
before you do.
I mean this is a fantastic first step, but it is FAR short of what most
people want or expect in a C64 emulator.
Sean.
"Gary" <garyd@efn.org.spamsux> wrote in message
news:3326.4aa330ba.6b643@efn.org...
> I don't know if anyone else here is on maniomio's mailing list but they've
> finally released their C64 emulator for the iPhone through the iTunes App
> Store; http://c64.manomio.com
>
> -Gary
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone - BEWARE [message #202018 is a reply to message #202016] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 14:10 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Bryan
Highly unlikely you'll get to do anything with external files i.e. your own .d64
files. Apple has a iron grip on dynamic content: anything external that they
can't test completely, that runs as code or p-code, to ensure it won't be used
to open up a hole to bypass the iTunes Store. Apple wants to make sure they can
make all the money possible from customers. Another example is the iTouch 3.0
firmware upgrade. Minor bug fixes, a couple incremental features, that they
wanted to sell to existing users for $10. Even if you just bought a brand new
iTouch at 2.x, or have a warranty, you still have to pay for the firmware
upgrade. Greedy bastards.
On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:03:20 -0400, "Sean Huxter" <sean.huxter@SPAMverizon.net>
wrote:
> BEWARE!
>
> Do NOT call this a C64 emulator. I jumped onto the ap store and bought this
> software faster than you can blink after reading the description.
>
> The first thing I was met with is the power-up screen which states that
> BASIC is not yet available (possibly in a future update), and that there are
> five games included, and more may come later.
>
> If I can't have access to the drives, .d64 files, and the real BASIC prompt
> of the C64, this is not an emulator, or at least not a complete one.
>
> It is a PARTIAL emulator which right now does nothing but play five
> pre-packed games, and none of which are terribly good. Certainly none of the
> classics are included.
>
> I'm not saying don't buy it. I'm just saying be better-educated than I was
> before you do.
>
> I mean this is a fantastic first step, but it is FAR short of what most
> people want or expect in a C64 emulator.
>
> Sean.
>
>
>
> "Gary" <garyd@efn.org.spamsux> wrote in message
> news:3326.4aa330ba.6b643@efn.org...
>> I don't know if anyone else here is on maniomio's mailing list but they've
>> finally released their C64 emulator for the iPhone through the iTunes App
>> Store; http://c64.manomio.com
>>
>> -Gary
>
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone - BEWARE [message #202024 is a reply to message #202018] |
Sun, 06 September 2009 18:18 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Joe Cassara
On Sep 6, 2:10 pm, Bryan <b...@net.net> wrote:
> Highly unlikely you'll get to do anything with external files i.e. your own .d64
> files. Apple has a iron grip on dynamic content: anything external that they
> can't test completely, that runs as code or p-code, to ensure it won't be used
> to open up a hole to bypass the iTunes Store. Apple wants to make sure they can
> make all the money possible from customers. Another example is the iTouch 3.0
> firmware upgrade. Minor bug fixes, a couple incremental features, that they
> wanted to sell to existing users for $10. Even if you just bought a brand new
> iTouch at 2.x, or have a warranty, you still have to pay for the firmware
> upgrade. Greedy bastards.
There is a legitimate accounting reason they ask iPod Touch users to
pay for OS upgrades. I leave it to you to research that if you're
interested. I don't have the link handy.
So long as Apple insists on keeping the Cocoa Touch ecosystem
hermetically sealed, your only hope of running a true emulator for any
system on it will be through unofficial channels like the jailbreaking
system.
For what it's worth, I would rather see a port of Frodo/VICE on the
Blackberry, a device with a proper keyboard and sensible (for our
purposes, as hobbyists) access to a filesystem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone - BEWARE [message #202076 is a reply to message #202018] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 13:09 |
Sean Huxter
Messages: 220
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
"Bryan" <bry@net.net> wrote in message
news:n6u7a5l0i1uc7ejjj6hp2n21bvrcr4ps24@4ax.com...
> Highly unlikely you'll get to do anything with external files i.e. your
> own .d64
> files. Apple has a iron grip on dynamic content: anything external that
> they
> can't test completely, that runs as code or p-code, to ensure it won't be
> used
> to open up a hole to bypass the iTunes Store. Apple wants to make sure
> they can
> make all the money possible from customers. Another example is the iTouch
> 3.0
> firmware upgrade. Minor bug fixes, a couple incremental features, that
> they
> wanted to sell to existing users for $10. Even if you just bought a brand
> new
> iTouch at 2.x, or have a warranty, you still have to pay for the firmware
> upgrade. Greedy bastards.
Apple Store approved an interactive fiction interpreter, which could execute
code. It took them a while to approve it, but it's there now.
I believe they just approved all pre-Amiga computing...
Sean.
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone - BEWARE [message #202085 is a reply to message #202076] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 15:06 |
madcrow.maxwell
Messages: 71
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
On Sep 7, 1:09 pm, "Sean Huxter" <sean.hux...@SPAMverizon.net> wrote:
> Apple Store approved an interactive fiction interpreter, which could execute
> code. It took them a while to approve it, but it's there now.
>
> I believe they just approved all pre-Amiga computing...
>
> Sean.
The authors of the IF interpreter were VERY careful to avoid using
terms that indicated the true nature of Z-machine as a VM. Instead
they refered to it as a "story file reader" or something and counted
on Apple not looking TOO closely at submitted apps. Clearly the C64
emulator people couldn't be quite as tricky in their presentation...
Mike
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202086 is a reply to message #202068] |
Mon, 07 September 2009 15:15 |
madcrow.maxwell
Messages: 71
Registered: June 2005
Karma: 0
|
Member |
|
|
On Sep 7, 10:38 am, Chris Baird <ab...@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:
> > I don't know if anyone else here is on maniomio's mailing list but
> > they've finally released their C64 emulator for the iPhone through
> > the iTunes App Store;http://c64.manomio.com
>
> So... which open source emulator had their code stolen? :)
>
> --
> chris
If any, probably Frodo. It seems to be the emulator of choice for
crappy CPUs like the ones found in PDAs and smartphones...
Speaking of code thefts, does anybody know if Cloanto is providing any
sort of technical or financial assistance to the VICE team? They
certainly have been helping out the WinUAE people (or at least have in
the past) but have they treated VICE (the base of their C64 Forever
package) the same way?
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202105 is a reply to message #202086] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 02:03 |
|
|
Originally posted by: Joe Cassara
On Sep 7, 3:15 pm, "Mike K." <madcrow.maxw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 7, 10:38 am, Chris Baird <ab...@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
>> > I don't know if anyone else here is on maniomio's mailing list but
>> > they've finally released their C64 emulator for the iPhone through
>> > the iTunes App Store;http://c64.manomio.com
>
>> So... which open source emulator had their code stolen? :)
>
>> --
>> chris
>
> If any, probably Frodo. It seems to be the emulator of choice for
> crappy CPUs like the ones found in PDAs and smartphones...
The app credits indicate that it's based on Frodo.
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202112 is a reply to message #202105] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 07:14 |
Chris Baird
Messages: 172
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
> The app credits indicate that it's based on Frodo.
Hmm.. Frodo's documentation says:
"Copyright and distribution
The rights on the source code remain at the author. It may not - not
even in parts - used for commercial purposes without explicit written
permission by the author. Permission to use it for non-commercial
purposes is hereby granted als long as my copyright notice remains in
the program. You are not allowed to use the source to create and
distribute a modified version of Frodo."
--
Chris
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202119 is a reply to message #202112] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 11:20 |
Lars Haugseth
Messages: 231
Registered: April 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
* Chris Baird <abuse@brushtail.apana.org.au> wrote:
>
>> The app credits indicate that it's based on Frodo.
>
> Hmm.. Frodo's documentation says:
>
> "Copyright and distribution
> The rights on the source code remain at the author. It may not - not
> even in parts - used for commercial purposes without explicit written
> permission by the author. Permission to use it for non-commercial
> purposes is hereby granted als long as my copyright notice remains in
> the program. You are not allowed to use the source to create and
> distribute a modified version of Frodo."
Would be interesting to know whether they got Christian Bauer's
permission for this.
By the way, the emulator was removed from the AppStore this morning:
Quoted from http://www.manomio.com/index.php/blog/important_update
Unfortunately, Apple has pulled the C64 Application from their
store as it was discovered by some users that it was possible to
enable the Basic program through the interface. We have now fixed
the issue and our application has been re-submitted for approval
by Apple.
We thank you all for your support and fingers crossed we hope to
launch again over the next few days.
I've also read that once you get BASIC enabled, you can load and
run the games manually and look at crack intros located on the
disk images but bypassed when the games are launched from the app
menu.
And what's this about the app being developed "under license from
Commodore Gaming"? Sounds more than a little sketchy to me. Does
such a company exist, and does it have any rights to the old
Commodore software backlog?
--
Lars Haugseth
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202121 is a reply to message #202119] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 12:09 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
> And what's this about the app being developed "under license from
> Commodore Gaming"?
AFAIK the only license they have is for the "Commodore" trademark.
There are lots of Commodore trademarks in different categories and
different countries, but Commodore Gaming and/or Commodore
International control a few of these.
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202122 is a reply to message #202086] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 12:16 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
> If any, probably Frodo. It seems to be the emulator of choice for
> crappy CPUs like the ones found in PDAs and smartphones...
>
> Speaking of code thefts, does anybody know if Cloanto is providing any
Why "thefts"?
We don't know if Monomio has an agreement with the author(s) of Frodo,
who can release it in any way they please.
Also, while Manomio hasn't released their source code, Cloanto
released several versions of their VICE enhancements even before
releasing C64 Forever:
http://www.c64forever.com/sourcecode/
Right now, if you compare the official VICE version and Cloanto's free
download, IMHO it's Cloanto that offers the best open source VICE
software. And if you consider the free C64 Forever Express Edition,
that too wraps around a nice set of goodies.
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202123 is a reply to message #202121] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 12:39 |
Groepaz
Messages: 640
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
greenphosphor wrote:
>> And what's this about the app being developed "under license from
>> Commodore Gaming"?
>
> AFAIK the only license they have is for the "Commodore" trademark.
> There are lots of Commodore trademarks in different categories and
> different countries, but Commodore Gaming and/or Commodore
> International control a few of these.
commodore gaming exists, look them up on the web. and the hold the rights
for a couple of games too (which the eg licenced to nintendo too for their
virtual console stuff)
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Erkenntnisse anderer Nachrichtendienste sind für uns unverzichtbar. Wir
werden auch in Zukunft jeden Hinweis nutzen, den wir bekommen können. Wenn
wir für Informationen anderer Nachrichtendienste eine Garantie übernehmen
müssen, daß sie unter Wahrung rechtsstaatlicher Prinzipien zustande
gekommen sind, können wir den Betrieb einstellen.
<Wolfgang Schäuble, CDU>
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202133 is a reply to message #202123] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 18:28 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
>>> And what's this about the app being developed "under license from
>>> Commodore Gaming"?
>
>> AFAIK the only license they have is for the "Commodore" trademark.
>> There are lots of Commodore trademarks in different categories and
>> different countries, but Commodore Gaming and/or Commodore
>> International control a few of these.
>
> commodore gaming exists, look them up on the web. and the hold the rights
> for a couple of games too (which the eg licenced to nintendo too for their
> virtual console stuff)
I never said they don't exist. Rather, my impression was that the
question of relevance was about what makes the app (intended as an
emulator), more official than other emulators. It wasn't a matter of
licensing games. Do you have anything to add about what Commodore
Gaming (or Commodore International) own and can license to make a C-64
emulator more official, beyond the "Commodore" trademark?
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202134 is a reply to message #202124] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 18:32 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
>> Right now, if you compare the official VICE version and Cloanto's free
>> download, IMHO it's Cloanto that offers the best open source VICE
>> software. And if you consider the free C64 Forever Express Edition,
>> that too wraps around a nice set of goodies.
>
> and many of the patches they provided are pointless, and thus were rejected
> =P
With "many" you are referring to the memory leaks Cloanto fixed along
with numerous other bugs and fixes? I know, it seems so... retro to
bother and fix memory leaks, but for some it's not pointless, it's a
matter of proper coding, and being compatible with environments like
test suites and Amiga itself. Or do you like it when you run VICE
under AmigaOS, and each time you quit the Workbench title bar shows a
few bytes less RAM?
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202137 is a reply to message #202134] |
Tue, 08 September 2009 20:58 |
Groepaz
Messages: 640
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
greenphosphor wrote:
> With "many" you are referring to the memory leaks Cloanto fixed along
> with numerous other bugs and fixes? I know, it seems so... retro to
> bother and fix memory leaks, but for some it's not pointless, it's a
> matter of proper coding, and being compatible with environments like
> test suites and Amiga itself. Or do you like it when you run VICE
> under AmigaOS, and each time you quit the Workbench title bar shows a
> few bytes less RAM?
in such a case i would either try fixing the OS, or simply use another one
that doesnt have this problem =P (proper heap management isnt rocket
science, really)
and what other numerous fixes are you referring to? i only remember a bunch
of these "memory leaks" and their "retro platform" stuff.
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Programmiersprachen die es einem nicht erlauben sich selber in den Fuss zu
schiessen sind vor allem für die Programmierer geeignet die Gefahr laufen
sich bei ihrem Tun selber zu verletzen.
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202140 is a reply to message #202137] |
Wed, 09 September 2009 05:09 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
> and what other numerous fixes are you referring to? i only remember a bunch
> of these "memory leaks" and their "retro platform" stuff.
Download the latest version from http://www.c64forever.com/sourcecode/,
then open the ChangeLog file. It lists 16 groups of changes in the top
entry. To mention a few, compared to the previous release, Cloanto's
improved VICE does now not disable Vista/7 aero, works across multiple
displays, doesn't cause display flickering each time it scans the list
of screen modes, and doesn't require admin privileges just because it
tries to write in the program files directory even if told not to.
I personally also like the new icons (in the other archive for
Windows). At least it doesn't put VICE at risk of being illegal
because of possible trademark infringement. Isn't that alone a major
"fix"?
Of course, because they also fixed a few memory leaks in the process
they must be evil, very evil, and thus have to be "rejected" :-D
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202151 is a reply to message #202140] |
Thu, 10 September 2009 12:21 |
Groepaz
Messages: 640
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
greenphosphor wrote:
> Download the latest version from http://www.c64forever.com/sourcecode/,
> then open the ChangeLog file. It lists 16 groups of changes in the top
> entry. To mention a few, compared to the previous release, Cloanto's
> improved VICE does now not disable Vista/7 aero, works across multiple
> displays, doesn't cause display flickering each time it scans the list
> of screen modes, and doesn't require admin privileges just because it
> tries to write in the program files directory even if told not to.
ok, all win32 stuff that doesnt bother me at all, no wonder i didnt remember
it :) but from looking at that list - many of these things are fixed in the
svn version, i have no idea wether the fixes are based on cloantos work or
not. (please also notice that a few of the fixes they list actually fix
problems caused by their own additions)
> I personally also like the new icons (in the other archive for
> Windows). At least it doesn't put VICE at risk of being illegal
> because of possible trademark infringement. Isn't that alone a major
> "fix"?
no, its a totally artificial fix. *they* fixed it to be absolutely sure, no
matter what. but in reality there is no trademark problem, as only an
*exact* replication of the chickenhead logo is protected, not everything
that vaguely resembles "C=64". on top of that, both yeahronimo and
commodore gaming have granted rights to distribute roms and everything that
goes with it to emulator people *if* its for non commercial use. so there
is no problem at all *except* if you want to commercially exploit vice -
which i doubt anyone in the vice team gives a shit about =P
> Of course, because they also fixed a few memory leaks in the process
> they must be evil, very evil, and thus have to be "rejected" :-D
nonsense. the patches regarding the "memory leaks" were rejected because
they dont actually fix anything. they work around a problem in a specific
OS. (and yes i agree this decision is debatable).
--
http://www.hitmen-console.org http://magicdisk.untergrund.net
http://www.pokefinder.org http://ftp.pokefinder.org
Killerspiele sollten bei der Strafbewährung in der Größenordnung von
Kinderpornografie eingeordnet werden, damit es spürbare Strafen gibt.
<Günther Beckstein, CSU>
|
|
|
|
| Cloanto/C64 forever and VICE and the GPL (was: C64 emulator for iPhone) [message #202192 is a reply to message #202086] |
Sat, 12 September 2009 18:00 |
Spiro Trikaliotis
Messages: 380
Registered: December 2011
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
Hello Mike,
Mike K. wrote:
> Speaking of code thefts, does anybody know if Cloanto is providing any
> sort of technical or financial assistance to the VICE team?
As one of the VICE project maintainers I want to CLEARLY state my
personal point of view: To me, Cloanto seems to have respected the GPL
completely. (I have not checked it in detail, but to me, it seems the
source if complete.) Additionally, they alway contacted the VICE team
with their patches, trying to bring back their patches into the main
stream.
So, speaking of "thefts" and "Cloanto" in one sentence is something you
should really avoid to do, please. Furthermore, I am sure if you find
something that is not handle completely correctly from their side, the
Cloanto people will happily fix it by doing whatever is needed.
Regards,
Spiro.
--
Spiro R. Trikaliotis http://opencbm.sf.net/
http://www.trikaliotis.net/ http://www.viceteam.org/
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202208 is a reply to message #202151] |
Sun, 13 September 2009 16:41 |
|
|
Originally posted by: greenphosphor
> in reality there is no trademark problem, as only an
> *exact* replication of the chickenhead logo is protected, not everything
> that vaguely resembles "C=64".
First of all, we are talking "C=", not "C=64". Second, if the "C="
logo is trademarked, then the icon used for VICE (pre-Cloanto) will be
covered as well, because it is almost the same. I am not a lawyer, but
I am quite sure the similarity doesn't need to be "exact".
> on top of that, both yeahronimo and
> commodore gaming have granted rights to distribute roms and everything that
> goes with it to emulator people *if* its for non commercial use.
What you describe is incompatible with the GPL. The GPL has no
problems with commercial use.
The fact that VICE distributed the ROMs (and the trademarks) for more
than 10 years with the VICE package has implications. People in
general would believe that someone checked that it is GPL, at least
that's what I would expect. The fact that nobody else ever objected
(presumably because there is nobody else who could object) has further
made the possibility of future copyright or trademark claims very
weak. So probably Cloanto did not even need to change that logo for
legal reasons.
AFAIK neither Yeahronimo nor Commodore Gaming own the ROMs. They own
the "Commodore" and "C=" trademarks (for some countries and for some
products, i.e. not for Opel Commodore cars, or for Commodore
champagne, etc.)
|
|
|
|
| Re: C64 emulator for iPhone [message #202313 is a reply to message #202056] |
Fri, 18 September 2009 02:32 |
Hg
Messages: 162
Registered: January 2012
Karma: 0
|
Senior Member |
|
|
On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 04:44:49 +0000, Golan Klinger wrote:
> Amigoat wrote:
>
>> One of the games shown is "Arctic Shipwreck". I don't think I've ever
>> heard of it - does it exist in 'real C64' format?
>
> Yes, it does. All of the games are early Commodore releases. In case
> anyone is curious:
>
> Arctic Shipwreck
> http://www.lemon64.com/games/details.php?ID=3970
>
Arctic Shipwreck is quite technically impressive, for an '83 game. Split
screen bitmap with a large pseudo solid 3D object tilting around fluidly.
|
|
|
|
Members
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
