| C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166629] |
Thu, 27 July 2006 17:52  |
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Originally posted by: DanSolo
Sorry about that, "compare and contrast" was an old line from the
English tests everyone did here. Anyway, after many years in blissful
emulatordom, I've taken the plunge and purchased not one, but 2 C64s.
Picked them up for 20 (=£13.67 =$25.38) on you know where. My
original C64 was a brown 1982 vintage, but there's no signs of life, at
least on the TV screen.
I was just wondering what people feel about the C64C. I mean, do people
feel they are "originals"? AFAIK they're identical under the bonnet, or
at least functionally. Would you use the C64Cs as spare parts to fix a
C64?
Opinions anybody?
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166649 is a reply to message #166629] |
Fri, 28 July 2006 02:29  |
![Etienne von Wettingfe[1] is currently offline](theme/default/images/offline.png "Etienne von Wettingfe[1] is currently offline")
Etienne von Wettingfe[1]
Messages: 180
Registered: December 2004
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On 2006-07-27, DanSolo <daniel.otoole@ucd.ie> wrote:
> Sorry about that, "compare and contrast" was an old line from the
> English tests everyone did here. Anyway, after many years in blissful
> emulatordom, I've taken the plunge and purchased not one, but 2 C64s.
> Picked them up for 20 (=£13.67 =$25.38) on you know where. My
> original C64 was a brown 1982 vintage, but there's no signs of life, at
> least on the TV screen.
> I was just wondering what people feel about the C64C. I mean, do people
> feel they are "originals"? AFAIK they're identical under the bonnet, or
> at least functionally. Would you use the C64Cs as spare parts to fix a
> C64?
> Opinions anybody?
I prefer a C64C, because of its looks and I find the keyboard easier to
access. If you only want to play games the C64 might be a better choice,
as I think the C64C had a sound issue when samples where played.
--
Etienne von Wettingfeld [Debian GNU/Linux]
I.C. Sr. Linux S.A. Slrn 0.9.8.1 / Vim 7.0.35
FICS Team League - http://fics.teamleague.org/
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166650 is a reply to message #166629] |
Fri, 28 July 2006 03:49 |
Stealth
Messages: 164
Registered: June 2005
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Thus spoke DanSolo:
> I was just wondering what people feel about the C64C. I mean, do people
> feel they are "originals"?
A lot of criticism comes from the fact the 64C was a "repackaged" C64,
however...
> AFAIK they're identical under the bonnet, or at least functionally.
> Would you use the C64Cs as spare parts to fix a C64?
....that's not entirely true. First off, no component needs 12VDC inside the
machine anymore - most notably the SID which, like most of the chips now
isn't interchangeable with C64 equivalents. Another, much more felt problem,
is that the SID chip had been fixed from the voltage leak it had in the 6581
series so without some extra soldering, sample playing was impossible (q.v.
Ghostbusters intro screen as a classic example). Another big difference is
that several chips moved, some were "compressed" into bigger ones (can't
remember the names of the ICs offhand, but I'm pretty sure the 64C has fewer
chips under the hood than a normal C64).
All in all, full software compatibility is there.
Full video compatibility is there, provided the VIC-IIs are made for the
same TV system.
Audio compatibility is there, but not full because of said fixed voltage
leak and the fact even normal wavefrms don't sound the same.
Internal hardware compatibility isn't there, because the chips can't be
swapped and fixed.
External hardware compatibility... I have no idea. The usual suspects
(joystick, tape drive, floppy, software modules, IEC printer) work, but I
don't know about any special hardware.
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166661 is a reply to message #166650] |
Fri, 28 July 2006 11:22 |
Jason
Messages: 148
Registered: March 2008
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Stealth wrote:
> Another big difference is that several chips moved, some were "compressed"
> into bigger ones (can't remember the names of the ICs offhand, but I'm
> pretty sure the 64C has fewer chips under the hood than a normal C64).
This depends on the C64C in question, some of the earliest are fitted with
the original mainboard so they still use the original ICs; the E revision
board in most C64C units is easily recognised because, as Stealth says,
there's less components and it also takes less physical space inside the
case, about two thirds of the internal area compared to all of it on the
older board.
> All in all, full software compatibility is there.
> Full video compatibility is there, provided the VIC-IIs are made for the
> same TV system.
That's not strictly accurate, from memory i believe that AGSP scrolling is
an issue with some of the later revision boards and a few will have issues
handling VSP; throw Phobia or Mayhem In Monsterland at a machine to test the
latter and Fred's Back or the Pinball Dreams preview for the former.
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166675 is a reply to message #166661] |
Fri, 28 July 2006 19:03 |
Stealth
Messages: 164
Registered: June 2005
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Thus spoke Jason:
> This depends on the C64C in question, some of the earliest are fitted with
> the original mainboard so they still use the original ICs;
Of course - and there are some C64s (Aldis, mostly) with caps set up for the
8580 but using a 6581 (or 6582, not entirely sure on it). Some boards were
crossings between the two generations.
> That's not strictly accurate, from memory i believe that AGSP scrolling is
> an issue with some of the later revision boards and a few will have issues
> handling VSP; throw Phobia or Mayhem In Monsterland at a machine to test
the
> latter and Fred's Back or the Pinball Dreams preview for the former.
My mistake, I wasn't aware that there was any difference between the two
VIC-II generations. For that matter, I have no idea what AGSP and VSP are so
I'll just take your word for it. :)
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166941 is a reply to message #166937] |
Sun, 06 August 2006 06:22 |
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Originally posted by: DanSolo
Michel Oosterbeek wrote:
> Without knowing anything of the tech stuff inside, I can tell you I
> never got the game wizzball working on the C64c, while playing it fully
> on the old one...
That's a worry. Surely a problem with a game like Wizball, one of the
most popular C64 games in history, would have surfaced before now. Was
it a loading problem, and if so, tape or disk? I don't want to rest my
C64ing future on machines that don't play Wizball!
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166982 is a reply to message #166941] |
Mon, 07 August 2006 07:23 |
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Originally posted by: Michel Oosterbeek
> I don't want to rest my
> C64ing future on machines that don't play Wizball!
Neither did I,
During that time I simply owned a C64c, and never had another model.
Being just a kid, I still wondered though why a certain game would work
on one C64 (from a friend) and not on mine.
I simply remembered this while reading this thread, thought it could be
interesting for someone with more insight.
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| Re: C64 v C64C... compare and contrast. [message #166984 is a reply to message #166982] |
Mon, 07 August 2006 07:49 |
Etienne von Wettingfe[1]
Messages: 180
Registered: December 2004
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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On 2006-08-07, Michel Oosterbeek <nope@cannot.have.it> wrote:
>> I don't want to rest my C64ing future on machines that don't play
>> Wizball!
>
> Neither did I,
>
> During that time I simply owned a C64c, and never had another model.
> Being just a kid, I still wondered though why a certain game would
> work on one C64 (from a friend) and not on mine.
>
> I simply remembered this while reading this thread, thought it could
> be interesting for someone with more insight.
IIRC I could play Wizbal on my C64C. Maybe you had a cracked version
where the cracker's intro would not work on a C model?
--
Etienne von Wettingfeld [Debian GNU/Linux]
I.C. Sr. Linux S.A. Slrn 0.9.8.1 / Vim 7.0.35
FICS Team League - http://fics.teamleague.org/
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