| 6502AD question [message #164374] |
Fri, 02 June 2006 15:43  |
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Originally posted by: Adam
Hihi
Is there any difference between a normal 6502 and a 6502AD? I need to
replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
away with?
Thanks
--
Adam
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164377 is a reply to message #164374] |
Fri, 02 June 2006 16:06  |
Michael J. Schülke
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Adam wrote:
> Is there any difference between a normal 6502 and a 6502AD?
The letters after the "6502" part are manufacturer-specific. Both
MOS/CSG and Rockwell used the first letter to designate the maximum
frequency:
no letter - 1 MHz
A - 2 MHz
B - 3 MHz
C - 4 MHz (CSG only, apparently)
Rockwell used a second letter for the package type (C - ceramic / P -
plastic) and sometimes a third (E - extended temperature range). Could
your "D" possibly be a "P"?
> I need to
> replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
> away with?
IIRC, the 1541-II is a 1 MHz device, so yes, you can.
Michael
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164378 is a reply to message #164374] |
Fri, 02 June 2006 16:27 |
Riccardo Rubini
Messages: 969
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Adam wrote:
> Hihi
>
> Is there any difference between a normal 6502 and a 6502AD? I need to
> replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
> away with?
Hello Adam.
Of course you can get away with it. The 6502AD is nothing but a 6502
processor able to run up to 2 Mhz. I have seen a bunch of 1541-II boards
mounting the 6502AD straight away from factory.
Riccardo
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164381 is a reply to message #164379] |
Fri, 02 June 2006 17:06 |
Michael J. Schülke
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2003
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Riccardo Rubini wrote:
> I don't remember where I read it, but if I recall right the D in "AD" stands
> for DIP, as opposed to P for PLCC. I am not sure, however. I can't find this
> information on the 6500 family datasheet from 1985.
That's what I checked, too, along with a Rockwell datasheet of similar
vintage -- no "D" anywhere; I was too lazy to actually run down to the
basement and check my spare 6502s.
Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
> If you want to see a picture, look at this bulletin board's topic
Thanks, but no need to -- I believe you anyway :-)
Michael
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164393 is a reply to message #164378] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 03:19 |
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Originally posted by: Adam
Hihi
Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>> replace the processor in my 1541-II and was wondering what I can get
>> away with?
>
> Hello Adam.
>
> Of course you can get away with it. The 6502AD is nothing but a 6502
> processor able to run up to 2 Mhz. I have seen a bunch of 1541-II boards
> mounting the 6502AD straight away from factory.
I think you misunderstand slightly
It has a (dead) 6502AD /now/, I want to replace that chip with a bog
standard 6502 (from a BBC computer actually)
Are people sure the 1541-II doesn't /need/ 2MHz speed for some reason?
These things are soldered in so I want to be sure first, lol
Thanks
--
Hideki
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164395 is a reply to message #164382] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 04:25 |
Riccardo Rubini
Messages: 969
Registered: July 2003
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"Stealth" <protostealth@*spamblocker*hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5qjg4$mqu$1@ss408.t-com.hr...
> Maybe D just meant "drive"? As lame as it sounds, maybe that's the
> solution
> to this puzzle.
No, I don't think so. In that case, some special addition or peculiarity had
to exist, to justify a separate production run for disk drives. For example,
there is a 6510T, not 6510, that is implemented only inside the 1551 disk
drive, and that CPU is different compared to a normal 6510. I really believe
"D" stands for "DIP" ( or DIL ), which means Dual In-Line Package - the
common rectangular housing of MOS IC's.
I believe there were 6502 made in PLCC, because CSG/MOS sold integrated
circuits to third parties also, so it's not impossible that, even if they
did not implement in their own hardware, they sold 6502 PLCC to other
companies requesting it. When Commodore was alive, it was Commodore who
owned the patents/copyright to the 6502 CPU, so those processors were either
licensed by them or built at their own facility.
Michael has asked me if 6502 in PLCC did exist and I am puzzled about
whether I have one somewhere, I had seen one or I have never seen one... :-)
What I am certain of is that MOS did make, at some point, the transition to
PLCC packaging, expecially after the Amiga line took over. I have to check
how they named the 8520 in DIP and the 8520 in PLCC, that can hint
something...
Riccardo
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164396 is a reply to message #164393] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 04:38 |
Riccardo Rubini
Messages: 969
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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"Adam" <hideki.adam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149319148.749276.219200@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I think you misunderstand slightly
>
> It has a (dead) 6502AD /now/, I want to replace that chip with a bog
> standard 6502 (from a BBC computer actually)
That should work.
> Are people sure the 1541-II doesn't /need/ 2MHz speed for some reason?
No, I am not aware of the 1541-II making any use of the 2 Mhz feature ever.
The 1541-II is mostly a cost reduced revision ( or upgrade ) of the 1541C,
and that never used the 2 Mhz speed either. I think you're pretty safe using
whatever 1 Mhz 6502 compatible CPU you can put your hands on.
> These things are soldered in so I want to be sure first, lol
Remember to put a socket, after you're done. It might come handy in the
future.
Riccardo
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164397 is a reply to message #164394] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 06:24 |
Michael J. Schülke
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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Riccardo Rubini wrote:
>> Was there ever a PLCC version of the (NMOS) 6502? My datasheets only
>> have 65C02s in PLCC cases.
>
> That can't be either, because MOS never produced 65C02's.
And I didn't say MOS :-)
> That was CMOS CPU
> made by Rockwell, with some addition to the instruction set.
.... and later second-sourced by California Micro Devices, WDC, and
possibly others.
Michael
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164424 is a reply to message #164401] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 11:08 |
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Originally posted by: Casca
as a side note "according" to the book BIG BLUES the unmaking of IBM
it is motorola that makes the 6502 CPU that was used in the apple II.
Regards
Mike
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164438 is a reply to message #164395] |
Sat, 03 June 2006 21:08 |
Anders Carlsson
Messages: 776
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Riccardo Rubini" <rubini@despammed.com> writes:
> there is a 6510T, not 6510, that is implemented only inside the
> 1551 disk drive, and that CPU is different compared to a normal 6510.
Aaww.. I was going to suggest the 6510T was made for tower-mounted
C64, as opposed to the desktop models Commodore themselves sold. :-)
--
Anders Carlsson
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164454 is a reply to message #164438] |
Sun, 04 June 2006 04:56 |
Riccardo Rubini
Messages: 969
Registered: July 2003
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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"Anders Carlsson" <anders.carlsson@sfks.se> wrote in message
news:wkhd31loiv.fsf@sfks.se...
> "Riccardo Rubini" <rubini@despammed.com> writes:
>
>> there is a 6510T, not 6510, that is implemented only inside the
>> 1551 disk drive, and that CPU is different compared to a normal 6510.
>
> Aaww.. I was going to suggest the 6510T was made for tower-mounted
> C64, as opposed to the desktop models Commodore themselves sold. :-)
Uh ? Lol ... No, that T just stands for the infamous TED, obviously :-)
Riccardo
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| Re: 6502AD question [message #164551 is a reply to message #164394] |
Mon, 05 June 2006 16:22 |
A. Fachat
Messages: 79
Registered: April 2005
Karma: 0
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Riccardo Rubini wrote:
> Ok. I said it just in case you were curious. I remember I saw it soldered on
> many 1541-II and 1581 boards. Those disk drives run the CPU at 1 Mhz, both
> IIRC, and it makes me wonder either Commodore quit making the 1 Mhz version
The 1581 runs the 6502 at 2MHz.
André
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