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What assembler do you guys use? [message #101775] Sun, 06 February 2005 22:46 Go to next message
David Murray is currently offline  David Murray
Messages: 1017
Registered: January 2005
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Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so spoiled by being
used to having an emulator to program in on my PC. However, when you are
adding real hardware to your C64, you can't use an emulator. I do not
currently have a real assembler for my C64 and most of the ones I see
referenced are commercial. So can somebody point me to some good free
assemblers that I can actually run on the real Commodore hardware..

By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the simpler and easier the
better. My program will probably be less than 4K when completed.

--DavidM
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101801 is a reply to message #101775] Sun, 06 February 2005 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Christian Lott is currently offline  Christian Lott
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Registered: January 2012
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Senior Member
David Murray wrote:
> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so spoiled by being

> used to having an emulator to program in on my PC. However, when you are

> adding real hardware to your C64, you can't use an emulator. I do not

> currently have a real assembler for my C64 and most of the ones I see

> referenced are commercial. So can somebody point me to some good free

> assemblers that I can actually run on the real Commodore hardware..

>

> By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the simpler and easier the

> better. My program will probably be less than 4K when completed.

>

> --DavidM


http://www.esw-heim.tu-clausthal.de/~marco/smorbrod/acme/acm e.html

Just remember to write:

!to"filename"

at the top of the file.



Christian
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101807 is a reply to message #101775] Mon, 07 February 2005 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rusure is currently offline  rusure
Messages: 1030
Registered: March 2012
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Senior Member
David Murray wrote:
> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so

> spoiled by being used to having an emulator to program in on

> my PC. However, when you are adding real hardware to your C64,

> you can't use an emulator. I do not currently have a real

> assembler for my C64 and most of the ones I see referenced are

> commercial. So can somebody point me to some good free assemblers

> that I can actually run on the real Commodore hardware..

>

> By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the simpler and easier the

> better. My program will probably be less than 4K when completed.



Assembler language WEB site
ftp://utopia.hacktic.nl/pub/c64/Tools/Assembler/

I am sure that the assemblers available at the above
site are obsolete like the computer for which they were
intended. The TURBO assembler has quite a few fans that
contribute to this group. I personally use the MACRO
ASSEMBLER DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM. It is cumbersome to
use but I NEED its symbolic cross referencing mapping
capability. Symbolic cross reference maps are passe.
They were never discussed when I took a C course in
1998. I used them frequently when I programmed in
FORTRAN on large main frames. I am not sure if MADS is
still sold anywhere. I would say its status is in limbo.

Although you are tired of MLMs, here is the
C64 standard in machine language monitors.

SUPERMON WEB site
ftp://videocam.net.au/cbm/utils/programming/
http://usuarios.lycos.es/fermhg/english.htm
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101813 is a reply to message #101775] Mon, 07 February 2005 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sieracki is currently offline  Jeremy Sieracki
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Registered: September 2003
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Member
The one I like to use is the Type-In program from
Compute!'s Gazette called BASSEM, it has
very good features and is easy to use,
you type in your code in a format akin to
BASIC entry as you use line numbers,
You can use Labels inside, delimiting them with
the left arrow character on the Commodore 64
keyboard, so you just save your assembly code
like a basic program, then run it to assemble it
to ML, you can have it assemble straight to a
file on disk, and split up code in several BASIC
listings, another command will dump to the screen
all the used Labels in the code.
Not sure what the previous post meant about
symbolic crossreferencing, but maybe it does that too?

It can be found on the April and May issues
of the Magazine of 1990, I will upload it in
D64 form and the scans of the Documentation
from the magazine to alt.binaries.emulators.cbm,
Check 'er out.

Jeremy
jeremysieracki@charter.net
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101819 is a reply to message #101813] Mon, 07 February 2005 04:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sieracki is currently offline  Jeremy Sieracki
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Registered: September 2003
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Member
Didn't realize, but I had typed in the DOCS into
a PC DOC file, one for MSWord, and one for WordPad,
I uploaded both of them also to alt.binaries.emulators.cbm

Jeremy
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101820 is a reply to message #101775] Mon, 07 February 2005 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sieracki is currently offline  Jeremy Sieracki
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When I typed in BASSEM, I also had a very good article
from Commodore Magazine that outlined how to make
hires graphics on a C64 with Assembly language, I spent
a month studying that article and typing the results into
BASSEM, the finished product was a compact routine
to do HiRes and MedRes graphics in ML, the code
had routines to draw pixels, lines, turn on and off either
the HiRes or MedRes screen and to clear them,
The resulting BASSEM source files I still have, but
they are REALLY compressed, in that I mean I typed all
the lines of code, as much as I could squeeze into a line,
to make the code compact so I could add routines to the
end which would use the routines, this makes it hard to
read and to decipher, but the routines work well,
I will post the source code for them, and a couple
programs which use the compiled result (these are in BASIC
which load the ML after compiling)
if you look at the BASIC parts you can easily decipher what
SYS calls do what with the compiled source, and maybe use them
as you like, I wish I had made a commented version, but I just
assumed I'd always know what I was planning, ha, as I look
at them now, I'm not so sure,

The labels indicate mostly what their function is,
like CLEAR would clear the hires/medres screen
some are a little more cryptic, like MX, MY and MXY
which if set to a value of 1 will mirror the Plot, be it a line
or just a pixel in those directions x, y and both x and y,
you just set the values and then call the PLOT routine
and the mirror will be automatic, reset them to zero and
the mirroring stops in subsequent calls/sys's

posting them to alt.binaries.emulators.cbm
first load BASSEM, and then the Source files, as BASSEM
is needed to be in memory when any source is loaded
or else the extensions to BASIC won't be there and all will
look funny and not work.

Jeremy
jeremysieracki@charter.net
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101838 is a reply to message #101820] Mon, 07 February 2005 04:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jeremy Sieracki is currently offline  Jeremy Sieracki
Messages: 56
Registered: September 2003
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Member
Ok, the Source's of some examples (well just 3, one with BASIC loader, the
other two are pure ML/source for BASSEM, are posted to
alt.binaries.emulators.cbm,
Here are some docs for what you'll find in the posting:

MAZE2/BAS - Basic Maze Loader, Loads MAZE2/ML which is the BASSEM code
compiled from
MAZE2/AC
MAZE2/AC - Source Code For Maze2 program, load in BASSEM
MAZE2/ML - Compiled Code From MAZE2/AC
HIRES/AC - BASSEM Source for HIRES Graphics Routines
COLORHIRES/AC - BASSEM Source for Multi-Color Graphics Routines
GRAPHICS/AC - Same BASSEM source as HIRES/AC but this one is commented
(yeah)
MEDRES1/AC - Another Version of COLORHIRES/AC not sure which came first,
this one is compressed
MOVELINES/AC - An attempt to duplicate the SWISH part of the popular C64
program SWINTH, I didn't
really succeed, load BASSEM then load this
code, then RUN and lastly SYS49152
to see it in action
SWINTH/AC - Another attempt at the SWISH part of Swinth, this one is better,
but still not
correct, same as above, load BASSEM, then load
this source, and then RUN and
lastly SYS49152 to run,

Jeremy Sieracki
jeremysieracki@charter.net

ps. I'll try and dig up the scans for the Commodore Article that listed the
assembly for HiRes graphics and post
them, it is a great article
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101847 is a reply to message #101775] Mon, 07 February 2005 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MagerValp is currently offline  MagerValp
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>>>> > "DM" == David Murray <spamsucks@stopspam.com> writes:


DM> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so spoiled
DM> by being used to having an emulator to program in on my PC.
DM> However, when you are adding real hardware to your C64, you can't
DM> use an emulator. I do not currently have a real assembler for my
DM> C64 and most of the ones I see referenced are commercial. So can
DM> somebody point me to some good free assemblers that I can actually
DM> run on the real Commodore hardware..

Grab the Style Coding Tools disk from:

http://www.style64.org/

it includes the Turbo Macro Pro assembler.

--
___ . . . . . + . . o
_|___|_ + . + . + . Per Olofsson, arkadspelare
o-o . . . o + MagerValp@cling.gu.se
- + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101855 is a reply to message #101813] Mon, 07 February 2005 12:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rusure is currently offline  rusure
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Registered: March 2012
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Senior Member
Jeremy Sieracki wrote:

> Not sure what the previous post meant about symbolic

crossreferencing, but maybe it does that too?

I had (maybe even have) the original BASSEM
article(s), in COMPUTE GAZETTE. When ever I have a
chance to acquire another assembler, the secondary
feature I require is a cross reference tool. (The
primary requirement is that the assembler accept and
assemle source code) I scanned the BASSEM article(s)
for a cross reference tool without success.

At one time I had BUDDY 128. I was unable
to find a cross referencer in BUDDY as well.

Cross reference maps enumerate, usually in
alphabetical order, all the symbols present in
the source code, as well as their line numbers
and the line numbers that reference the symbols.
Good Xmappers will discriminate between the line
locations of the symbols and lines that refer to
the symbols. I would think that this info is stored
somewhere in all language processors. Symbolic
cross reference mappers are poor mans flow charts.
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101861 is a reply to message #101775] Mon, 07 February 2005 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Patryk 'Silver Dream  is currently offline  Patryk 'Silver Dream
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Registered: July 2003
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David Murray wrote:
> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so spoiled by being

> used to having an emulator to program in on my PC. However, when you are

> adding real hardware to your C64, you can't use an emulator. I do not

> currently have a real assembler for my C64 and most of the ones I see

> referenced are commercial. So can somebody point me to some good free

> assemblers that I can actually run on the real Commodore hardware..

>

> By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the simpler and easier the

> better. My program will probably be less than 4K when completed.


I can't say it's "nothing fancy" as it includes basically everything you
may need on a 64 without REU. It's my all-time favorite MacroAssembler,
which was published on the INPUT64 in (AFAIR) June release of 1986. It
has a built-in lightweight editor, 2-pass assembler with macro support
as well as it assembles to disk, to memory, outputs listings to file or
printer, allows single-file state saving and does a lot of other nice
stuff ;-) The built-in editor is highly WordStar (still remember that?)
compatible so one finds all the lovely CTRL-K combinations there. Yup.
Just great ;-)
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #101904 is a reply to message #101847] Mon, 07 February 2005 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cameron Kaiser is currently offline  Cameron Kaiser
Messages: 1622
Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
MagerValp <MagerValp@cling.gu.se> writes:

> it includes the Turbo Macro Pro assembler.


I still use the original TurboAss (although mine has a couple patches) when
I code directly on the 64, but that's rarely now. Most of my work is cross-
assembled using xa on Mac OS X.

--
Cameron Kaiser * ckaiser@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #102003 is a reply to message #101775] Tue, 08 February 2005 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Six of DLoC[1] is currently offline  Six of DLoC[1]
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Registered: December 2004
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Junior Member
David Murray <spamsucks@stopspam.com> wrote in
news:Xns95F5DD807D760neverspamnospamcom@151.164.30.48:

> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. I'm so spoiled by

> being used to having an emulator to program in on my PC. However,

> when you are adding real hardware to your C64, you can't use an

> emulator. I do not currently have a real assembler for my C64 and

> most of the ones I see referenced are commercial. So can somebody

> point me to some good free assemblers that I can actually run on the

> real Commodore hardware..

>

> By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the simpler and easier the

> better. My program will probably be less than 4K when completed.

>

> --DavidM

>


Turbo Macro Pro from Style
http://style64.org - on the tools disk
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #102084 is a reply to message #101855] Tue, 08 February 2005 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anton Treuenfels is currently offline  Anton Treuenfels
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Registered: December 2011
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Senior Member
> Cross reference maps enumerate, usually in

> alphabetical order, all the symbols present in

> the source code, as well as their line numbers

> and the line numbers that reference the symbols.

> Good Xmappers will discriminate between the line

> locations of the symbols and lines that refer to

> the symbols.


> I would think that this info is stored

> somewhere in all language processors.


Not necessarily. A reference to a symbol in an expression only needs the
value of that symbol, not where it came from. As you've noticed, many
assemblers don't bother to save that kind of information because they don't
need it to accomplish what they're intended to do. It can be done, but it
takes extra memory for code and data, which is precious on small machines.

- Anton Treuenfels
Re: What assembler do you guys use? [message #105803 is a reply to message #101807] Mon, 14 March 2005 23:20 Go to previous message
rusure is currently offline  rusure
Messages: 1030
Registered: March 2012
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r_u_sure@mybluelight.com wrote:
> David Murray wrote:

>> Okay.. I'm tired of programming in an ML monitor.. can

>> somebody point me to some good free assemblers that

>> I can actually run on the real Commodore hardware..


>> By the way, I don't need anything fancy.. the

>> simpler and easier the better. My program

>> will probably be less than 4K when completed.


> I personally use the MACRO ASSEMBLER DEVELOPMENT SYSTEM.

> It is cumbersome to use but I NEED its symbolic cross

> referencing mapping capability. I am not sure if MADS is

> still sold anywhere. I would say its status is in limbo.


Since I posted the above message, I have
stumbled onto the following site with MADS :

http://www.haddewig.de/nogames64/tools.html

Click on the Commodore Assembler entry. The MADS files from
the site are 1 byte longer than those on the original Commodore
system disk, except for the DOS WEDGE booting programs.
Both WEDGE booters appear to perform equivalent operations.

MADS docs are at :

http://project64.c64.org/misc/index.html
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