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From: COSC2U2@uhvax1.uh.edu
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Glasnost and the Orthodox Church
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Date: 24 Sep 89 21:59:42 GMT
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[COSC2U2 (whose name I still haven't figured out) wrote a posting predicting
an "unleashing" of the Russian Orthodox Church.  In it he commented that
the scandals of Bakker, Roberts, etc., allowed the Eastern Orthodox Church
to corral some maverick lambs (presumably disillusioned).  Mark
Lawrence (mark@drd.com), although appreciating the insights into the
Orthodox faith, was somewhat put off by "marketing" orientation of the
original posting.  --clh]

    A true Christain will always want to be in communion with other Christains.
But if the test of "By their works ye shall know them . . . "  indicates that
it is time to find greener pastures, then it is time to find a new church home.
By the way, Orthodox do not proslytize. They are perfectly willing to make a
(for example) a good Baptist into a better Baptist. In the case of
Televangelists, or even burnout, and if a new Church is an indicated solution
to the faithfuls religious problems, they will accept a new member.


> The enumerated list of "What the ROC offers" reminded me of a marketing 
> presentation.  The crucial issue is: should a segment of the Body with 
> which we choose to be filial be selected on the basis of hymnology 
> (I can see the arguments now: "you may have Tchaikovsky, but *we've* got 
> Crosby, Watts and Wesley..."), church architecture and so on?   Granted, 
> mode of worship (liturgy, no benches?!) probably enter into it on a practical 
> level.

You misunderstand. I am a Protestant whose hobby is Byzantinology. I am saying
that because of Glasnost, the ROC will operate with a much freer hand. They
must first take the oportunity that Glasnost offers them to reform. Then they
can spearhead their Crusade in America (still a figment of my imagination,
but a very real possibility). The Great Revival has missed them so far. The
initiative of the Great Revival has fizzled out in most of the other
denominations except the baptists. All it takes is a spark in a group to
start a new phase of the Great Revival. The ROC has one called Glasnost.
Although its a wait and see game, I don't think that the Orthodox will
be left out. (My judgement as a Christain Historian)

> 
> Perhaps I'm just hopelessly out of touch and uneducated in these matters, but 
> the thing that is most important to me with regard to "church selection" is
> whether or not one has the confidence that the Lord has placed one *there*.
> The lack of sensitivity in the article in this regard, frankly, disturbs me.

I was objectively stating the factors of their worship that would affect the
U.S. Religious Landscape. I thought that describing their icons as "Windows
into Heaven" very sensitive. It has been said that their icons are
comprehensible to only believers. As for the music, it is as fine a spiritual
music as ever heard. Would you rather have your hymnology based upon Wagner?

  
> One might hawk 

I didn't hawk anything. Would I call their liturgy a weak point if I did?
Five minute sermons, at least in my opinion, are much too short. Thirty
minutes, however, is reasonable time for a good short sermon.


> the attributes of a particular secular organization (country 
> clubs, health clubs, altruistic enterprises, etc.) in such a manner, but 
> certainly God's elect deserve better.

After all the discussion  on Predestination & Free Will, you still use
the term "elect". I believe in Christ as an act of my Will, though
God made it possible for me as a UNIVERSAL Act of Divine Grace. 

One point I made before (in different words) was that if and when the Russians
finally come, the American attitude toward Predestination will shift AWAY
from Calvinist and Reformed thought.


> 
> 
> -- 
>    mark@DRD.Com                (918) 743-3013              Jer. 9:23,24
>    {uunet,rutgers}!drd!mark
> 
> [A couple of comments: (1) there is no question that realistically
> denominations are in competition, and they do compete on matters such
> as style.  This may not be good, but it's not entirely bad either.  In
> my view it's perfectly OK to have several denominations that preach
> the gospel with equal faithfulness but have different styles of
> worship.  My worship would be seriously impeded by music that a
> younger generation may find helpful.  

  My point was to prognosticate the effects of what this competition would
have upon the American Religious Landscape. I found music important to my
worship. Musical pablum bores me. Rock would grate my nerves. Church music
must have a Spiritual Quality about it so that I can remember what I came
to church for.


>(2) I think at least some of his
> point was that the Orthodox Church would bring these things as a
> contribution to the Church as a whole.  I think he's overly optimistic
> about the Orthodox Church converting Southern Baptists. 

  I don't think I said that they would convert the Southern Baptists either.
Further, I do not think it would be a good move. The two denominations have
much to learn about each other. Merging or converting does not necessarily
make a Church better. You can be big in 2 way, by muscle or by fat. Two
hunks of muscle are better than one blob of fat.

> However a
> more vigorous Orthodox Church might still have an impact on all of us.
> --clh]

Exactly my point! If and when they get out of their lethargy, which I think
is highly probably (I did not say it was a certainty), you will see plenty
of impact. I have probably overemphasized that it will be a continuation of
the Great Revival (and the U.S. needs it). The purpose of my previous article
was to expound upon what to expect.

--ceb