Xref: utzoo can.general:1801 can.politics:2807 Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!neat.cs.toronto.edu!derome From: derome@cs.toronto.edu (Philippe Derome) Newsgroups: can.general,can.politics Subject: Re: postings in the French language Keywords: appropriate, language, subsequent Message-ID: <89Sep28.153930edt.2405@neat.cs.toronto.edu> Date: 28 Sep 89 19:40:17 GMT References: <1178@mannix.iros1.UUCP> <3837.251eb4d9@uwovax.uwo.ca> <1989Sep26.153200.959@utstat.uucp> <29431@watmath.waterloo.edu> Distribution: can Organization: Department of Computer Science, University of Toronto Lines: 85 In article <29431@watmath.waterloo.edu> sccowan@watmsg.waterloo.edu (S. Crispin Cowan) writes: >In article <1989Sep26.153200.959@utstat.uucp> webber@utubrutus.toronto.edu (Bob Webber) writes: >>In article <3837.251eb4d9@uwovax.uwo.ca> J G Millerwrites: >>Pourquoi pas? Consider it a challenge (no, better, an _opportunity_) to >>learn something about Canada's other official language and other imperialist >>running dog founding culture. Or a chance to make new friends by politely >>asking for a translation if your language skills aren't up to par. > >This is one of the issues that I consider to be a major problem. >Among anyone but civil servants, 'par' in French is about zip. I like >it that way. You seem to have forgotten the francophone populations who also speak some French. I have to admit that is some parts of the country, their number is rather small. >I don't do any significant business with anyone in >Quebec. I don't know anyone i Quebec. >No significant amount of work >in my field (computer architecture) is published in French. Same here. >Therefore, I am completely un-interested in investing the man YEARS >required to acquire the language to any degree of utility. > >On the other hand, it is becoming a standard requirement that any >medium to high level civil servant be bi-lingual. Since bi-lingualism >is almost completely non-existant outside of Quebec, this creates a >tremendous bias towards people from Quebec. There are about 7-800 000 francophones outside Quebec, for the most part in Ontario and New-Brunswick. That's probably nearly as much as anglophones in Quebec. There are a fair number of English Canadians who are becoming bilingual in Ontario. I agree that the percentage of bilingual people outside Quebec is rather weak, but put together it comes to appreciable numbers. >In a predominantly English country, I regard this as un-fair discrimination. This is not discrimination since the bilingual requirement can be satisfied by any person who has been willing to spend enough time learning the other (2 others) language. Of course for you, bilinguism is not a qualification for being a public servant! >It is also >divicive. People tend not to like the federal government now. How >will western Canada feel about it when every time they talk to a >federal civil servant the first thing they hear is 'Bonjoure', >followed by broken english. It's not fun feeling like an immigrant in >your native country. If the policy were tough enough (I am not judging it), those bilingual officers should be fluent in both languages so that it should not disturb you. The evidence suggests the contrary of your statement: bilingual francophones in public service are more fluent in either language than their counterpart. This has been recently demonstrated by a figure showing how many bilingual officers failed their bilingual test so that they could get a bonus for that special qualification. Among the ``bilingual'' anglophones, a much larger percentage failed than among the ``bilingual'' francophones. The interpretation I see from this is as follows: possibly when the anglophones were hired they met their bilingual qualification by a much tighter margin than the francophones; or they used the second language at work much less frequently than the other group. So, in fact, it's the francophones who would probably more often be served by a not quite linguistically competent public servant than the anglophones. My personal experience suggests this state of affairs as well. > >Crispin >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >Login name: sccowan In real life: S. Crispin Cowan >Office: DC3548 x3934 Home phone: 570-2517 >Post Awful: 60 Overlea Drive, Kitchener, N2M 1T1 >UUCP: watmath!watmsg!sccowan >Domain: sccowan@watmsg.waterloo.edu > >"Everything to excess. Moderation is for monks." > -Lazarus Long >>-- >>Bob Webber, Office of the Dean of Arts and Science, University of Toronto >>Internet: webber@artsci.toronto.edu; webber@utstat.toronto.edu >>UUCP: utzoo!utas!webber; utzoo!utstat!webber Philippe Derome derome@neat.cs.toronto.edu