Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ginosko!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!chuq
From: chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: A Network Tragedy
Message-ID: <34991@apple.Apple.COM>
Date: 24 Sep 89 19:10:16 GMT
References: <22469@cup.portal.com>
Organization: Life is just a Fantasy novel played for keeps
Lines: 66

>that is the tendency 
>of a number of people to abuse others because of what they say,

Abuse is never welcome. Unfortunately, there *are* many people who are
unable to argue the facts -- their idea of rebutting an argument is on the
level of "so's your old man!" You don't win arguments that way, but if you
p*ss off the other person enough, they'll go away in disgust and you can
then claim victory. This is called the "the last one arguing wins" syndrome.

If you want to know how to argue, go sign up for a debate class. I debated
interscholastically in both high school and college, and you learn how to
(among other things) understand and rebut an argument, follow the flow of a
discussion and avoid getting sidetracked into trivialities. It's also good
training in rhetoric and devil's advocacy. A *great* way to die painful
deaths on the debate circuit is to switch from issues to people (overtly.
covert insults are perfectly acceptable, once you figure out how...).

Probably the best skills debate ever taught me were the ability to sound
authoritative while having absolutely no idea what I'm talking about (the
great "I left that card file at home!" syndrome) and being able to argue any
position with great enthusiasm.

Debate can be a lot of fun. Occasionally it accomplishes something, too. My
biggest problem with USENET is that most people take it so bloody seriously.
You can't have a good argument without someone getting nasty. Unfortunately.
There just arent' many people who enjoy a good argument out there. It gets
all too personal.

>because
>of their poor spelling, grammar, syntax or typing skill,

Spelling flames are the last bastion of the person with no facts. If you
can't argue a person's position, you shift the discussion into a tangent and
hope people don't notice. Spelling wars serve no useful purpose (and are
much different things like *helping* someone with their spelling).

On the *other* hand, a person's *only* representation on the net is their
writing. People who try to claim that their lack of skill shouldn't be a
factor are kidding themselves -- if you write your resume in crayon, they
are going to be turned down. Same here -- if you can't present your ideas
clearly, people aren't going to understand them. So people should write the
best they can.

But that doesn't mean you yell at someone who makes mistakes. There's a
difference between criticism/tutoring and abuse. The former, for instance,
should be private. The latter, invariably, is loud and public.


>The other is still rubbing sore--the large number of sad people who
>begin a posting "I am new to the {net|group|board|world of computers} so
>please be gentle, but . . ."

The first time you do something, there's going to be some nervousness
attached. Unfortunately, you also run into people who like bashing on the
new and insecure. On CompuServe, on the other hand, when someone pops in for
the first time and says hi, it's not unlikely that a dozen folks are going
to walk up and introduce themselves and welcome the newcomer. It's sad that
USENET is based so heavily on negative vibes and 'surviving' the idiots. If
anyone wants to know why I'm spending more and more time on CI$ and less and
less here....

-- 

Chuq Von Rospach <+> Editor,OtherRealms <+> Member SFWA/ASFA
chuq@apple.com <+> CI$: 73317,635 <+> [This is myself speaking. I am not Appl
Segmentation Fault. Core dumped.