Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: csusac!rohwerwd@ucdavis.edu (W. David Rohwer) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Logical Scripture Proof Keywords: logical scripture bible proof Message-ID:Date: 27 Sep 89 06:57:49 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Cal State University, Sacramento - B.S. Computer Science, Dec. '89 Lines: 223 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu This article contains a logical scripture proof. If you decide to discuss the proof, then please base your discussions on logic and not faith. Thanks, W. David Rohwer The following is my proof: ********************************************************************* 1. By definition, Jesus and God are one. (Jesus = God) Jn 10:30. 2. By definition, God is unchangeable. Nu 23:19, 1 Sa 15:29, Job 36:5, Ps 33:11, Ps 89:34, Ps 102:27, Ps 110:4, Mal 3:6, Tit 1:2, Heb 6:17-18, Heb 38:8, Jas 1:17. 3. By definition, all Scripture is God's Word (All Scripture is the inspired Word of God). 2 Ti 3:16 4. By definition, change means not identical or not the same. 5. Scripture must not contain one or more changes to God. From steps: 2-4. 6. If there are no changes to God in Scripture, then all Scripture is God's Word. From steps: 3, 5. 7. If there is at least one change to God in Scripture, then Scripture is from 0% to 99.9999....% God's Word and from 100% to 0.000....01% Man's Word. Contradiction of step 6. 8. There is at least one change to God in Scripture. (Ex 20:22-25 and Lev 24:17-20 and Dt 19:21) != Mt 5:38-40 9. There is at least one statement in Scripture that says that a statement is from Man and not God. 1 Co 7:12 10. Therefore, Scripture is not all God's Word and is part, if not all, Man's Word. From steps: 7-9. ********************************************************************* The following is Scripture evidence that supports my proof. ********************************************************************* "Scripture taken from the HOLY BIBLE, NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION. Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society. Used by permission of Zondervan Bible Publishers." ********************************************************************* (Step 1 in proof) This verse establishes that Jesus = God. Jn 10:30 FOOTNOTE: The "Father" in the following passage is God. Jesus answered, ".... I and the Father are one." ********************************************************************* (Step 2 in proof) The verses that follow are all the verses in the Bible that pertain to the unchangeability of God: Nu 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? 1 Sa 15:29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind." Job 36:5 God is mighty, but does not despise men; he is mighty, and firm in his purpose. Ps 33:11 But the plans of the LORD stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations. Ps 89:34 FOOTNOTE: The "I" in the following verse is God. I will not violate my covenant or alter what my lips have uttered. Ps 102:27 FOOTNOTE: The "you" is the following verse is God. But you remain the same, and your years will never end. Ps 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind:... Mal 3:6 "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." Tit 1:2 ...a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie,... Heb 6:17-18 17. Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. ********************************************************************* (Step 3 in proof) This verse in the Bible establishes that Scripture is all God's word: 2 Ti 3:16 16. All Scripture is God-breathed.... ********************************************************************* (Step 8 in proof) I have come up with some verses that does show that God changes, as specified in the following verses. First, I will quote 3 sets of equivalent verses from the Old Testament, then I will quote some verses from the New Testament that that contradict the Old Testament verses. Ex 20:22 Then the LORD said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites this: '... Ex 22:23-25 "But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for a life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise." Lev 24:1 The LORD said to Moses, "... Lev 24:17 "'If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death.' Lev 24:19-20 'If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he injured the other, so he is to be injured.'" Dt 19:21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. As shown in the following verses, God has changed. Mt 5:38-40 Jesus says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the the other one also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well." These verses say that if a person injures another person, then one should not injure that person back. This contradicts the Old Testament verses that say that if one is injured, then one should injure the other person (Eye for Eye). ********************************************************************* (Step 9 in proof) This verse establishes that there is at least one statement in Scripture that says that this statement is from man and not God. 1 Co 7:12 FOOTNOTE: The "I" in 1 Co 7:12 refers to Paul. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. ********************************************************************* +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | W. David Rohwer | UUCP : {ucdavis|lll-crg}!csusac!rohwerwd | | | Internet : rohwerwd@csusac.csus.edu | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ [I have severe qualms about dealing with religious texts in this way. Of course that may be the whole point of the posting. But language just isn't as clear-cut as this implies. Not just Biblical language either, but language as normally used. You assume 1. That when Jesus says he is at one with the Father, this means they are precisely the same entity. There are a number of somewhat looser senses available. 2. That God being unchangeable implies that his instructions to different people at different times must be the same. 3. That there is a complete dicotomy between God's word and human words, such that a thing can't be both at the same time. Modern philosophers understand language as a far more subtle tool than this. (I mention this because of your stress on logic.) If you're interested, I think some of our readers probably have a better background in philosphy than I do. I'd probably point you to writers such as Searle. --clh]