Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!um-math!sharkey!cfctech!teemc!hpftc!zardoz!henry.jpl.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!sun-barr!newstop!sun!pepper!cmcmanis
From: cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Subject: Re: Duesseldorf: personal impression of the TT(T)
Message-ID: <123947@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: 29 Aug 89 23:40:12 GMT
References: <8908251936.AA19454@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> <1572@laura.UUCP>
Sender: news@sun.Eng.Sun.COM
Reply-To: cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View
Lines: 107


[I appreciate the information, It would be nice if Atari Inc would dump
the official press release here as well.]

So onto some questions on your comments :
In article <1572@laura.UUCP> atoenne@laura.UUCP (Andreas Toenne) writes:
->Wrong.
->What you saw was the 'complete' low-cost version.
->Certainly there will be packages without harddrive. However the monitor
->is somewhat special (close to VGA but not close enough) so good ones
->like NEC multisync will work but result in a bad picture with thick
->borders around.

Hmmm, the whole graphics capability question is really foggy so far. Some
specific questions :
	1) What is the exact resolution (X by Y by n) and what, if any
	   are the limitations on what resolutions can be used in what
	   situations.
	2) You say the "multisync" will work, does it *require* a multisync
	   or can you just use one?
	3) If you use a multisync, can the hardware generate different
	   video modes?

->It RUNS the old ST harddisks so you can get it cheaper than 6500DM incl.VAT
->None at Atari is willing to give final statements about that though.
->Leonard Tramiel said to me: 'Germain sales will determine the packages
->(in Germany)'. So I'll stay optimistic.

Does this mean it has a "DMA" port like the 520/1040/MegaX ? Does it have
a "real" SCSI port as well? What kind of through put can be expected from
the hard disk interfaces? Can it do DMA and access > 4Meg ?

->>Actually I would call it a wastage of highly sophisticated microprocessors
->>the way an 68030 is slowed down to 2MHz Busfrequency. A (A24,D16) VME slot
->>that would have been something useful for the ST, but an 68030 should be
->>worth an full 32bit VME slot ! A speedupfactor of 4 that's a shame and I'm
->>quite sure the TT will be the slowest 68030 machine that will ever exist.
->>I wouldn't call the TTT a workstation -- and I won't buy it.
->
->Tstststs, turn your mind on before you talk!
->
->1. The processor runs at 2MHz with VME bus only but at full 16Mhz else.

This is damning with faint praise! What does Atari envision will be plugged
into this silly slot that runs at 2Mhz? Certainly not memory expansion
boards, how much memory can this thing be expanded to internally. Is the
VME slot the _only_ way to expand it, or does it have a Mega compatible
expansion connector as well?

->2. The speed factor is 3times(my minimal guess) < 4times < 5times (Leonard).
->So do some calculations.... Smalltalk80 for instance runs at 40% Dorado on
->the ST. It runs at 116% Dorado on the MacII (CX) with the same software!
->So if the TT is 4 times faster than the ST it will run at 160% Dorado and
->thats a bringer. I estimate this machine as equivalent to the Max II (CX).

Your calclations seem to leave out factors (like hard disk speed, memory
speed) but maybe a more interesting number would be comparing it to the 
Amiga 2500 with a 68030 processor (25Mhz from GVP) since it seems like
they will cost about the same.

->3. The TT uses this so called 'Slow Ram' for the lower 2meg only. The real
->memory expansion (who uses a workstation with 2meg anyway?) takes place
->at 16meg++ addresses and is called "Fast Ram". This uses full and sophisticated
->caching with 4*64bit burst filling.
->The application can decide (loader flag) where the binaries should lie and
->where Malloc() calls should take place.

What is "slow ram" ? I thought all of the Atari ram was "Fast" ram in that
the processor always had full access to it. What is "Fast" ram in your comment
and how much can one add (I'm guessing it can't sit on that VME slot). Also
do you have any idea how an "old" application will deal with the loader flag
business? Does the TT run TOS 1.4 or 1.x? How does one set up the MMU in the
'030 (if at all ?)

Does it have a Blitter ?

->It is the cheapest workstation of that power around (about 1/2 the price
->of comparable competitors here in Germany).

How does it compare to the Amiga 2500 in Germany? I know A2000s there are
pretty darn cheap.

->Besides: 
->- the drive will be 1.44 meg although they show 720 right now
->- the keyboard will be better. It's just a mega keyboard on the fair.
->- the monitors will be better. They took VGA monitors for the fair.

->It will be in the shops sometimes between Christmas and early spring.
->Nobody dared to name an exact date though :-)

Well, what you describe sounds like what the ATW had when it was "demoed"
at Comdex nearly two years ago. I'm sure like stock funds, "past history
is no guarantee of future performance." But given the two red flags :
	A) "The shipper dropped it before it got here."
	B) "The production machine will have X, Y, and Z rather than this."
My _guess_ is that it will be more like _next_ Christmas or maybe the one
after that before any true customer will have the option of buying one. 
Added to the fact that it looks like Atari might be able to sell as many
handheld game machines that they can produce, the smart money would be in
building the sure thing first, the workstation second. That might push it
out by 6 to 18 months as well. 


--Chuck McManis
uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis   BIX: cmcmanis  ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com
These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
"If I were driving a Macintosh, I'd have to stop before I could turn the wheel."