Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!purdue!decwrl!adobe!greid
From: greid@adobe.com (Glenn Reid)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.postscript
Subject: Re: Request for Postscript display for a Sun
Message-ID: <1089@adobe.UUCP>
Date: 18 Aug 89 18:24:35 GMT
References: <4163@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> <17139@ut-emx.UUCP> <12039@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com>
Sender: news@adobe.COM
Reply-To: greid@adobe.COM (Glenn Reid)
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Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated, Mountain View
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In article <12039@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com> cjc@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Chris Calabrese[mav]) writes:

> Let me assure you, NeWS is not derived from Display PostScript but was done
> independantly by Sun using the Red Book as a guide.

You're right, NeWS is not derived from Display PostScript.  They are
different and from different origins. As a friend of mine at Sun once
put it, it was a "historical accident."  To say that NeWS was developed
before Display PostScript is a little misleading, perhaps, since one
precursor to PostScript (JaM) was originally developed for displays,
back when John Warnock was at Evans and Sutherland.  Also, the first
business plan for Adobe involved building publishing workstations, not
printers, so it has been under technology development for a long time,
although the product development effort is more recent.

>						  Originally, Adobe
> licenced the PostScript name to Sun because NeWS was fully Red Book
> conformant,

Just to make things clear, Adobe did not license the PostScript name to
Sun, and NeWS was not fully Red Book conformant as of version 1.1, but
it's pretty close, I think.

>but has since refused to let Sun use the name due to NeWS not being compatible
>with Display PostScript (read - NeWS came before Display PostScript).
>So far, Sun has used the name PostScript anyway.
>...
>In any event, you certainly don't have to talk to Adobe.  In fact, they'll
>probably refuse to talk to you about it.

I don't think the word "refuse" ever comes up in our dealings with Sun,
and despite rumors, flamage, and the healthy natural phenomenon of
competition, Sun and Adobe get along just fine.  In fact, we're glad
that Sun has the vision to support ideas like PostScript so thoroughly.
If you call Adobe and ask about NeWS, the person you talk to may or
may not be familiar with it, but if they are, they would probably just
refer you to Sun.  We wouldn't refuse to talk to you about it; that's
silly.

Enclosed below is the full text of Adobe's statement on Copyright and
Trademark Rights, which I have been given by our legal Counsel.  This
is provided for information and to help illuminate any of the darker
corners of understanding the trademark issues surrounding the name
PostScript.

If you have any questions concerning the use or copying of the
Copyrighted Material, or if you have questions concerning the proper
use of the trademark PostScript, please address your inquiry to: Adobe
Systems Incorporated, Attn: Legal Department, 1585 Charleston Road,
P.O. Box 7900, Mountain View, CA  94039-7900.

Glenn Reid
Adobe Systems

------------------ enclosure ------------------
The general idea of utilizing a page description language is in the
public domain.  Anyone is free to devise his own set of unique commands
that constitute a page description language.  However, Adobe Systems
Incorporated owns the copyright in the list of commands and the written
specifications for Adobe's PostScript language.  Thus, these elements
of the PostScript language may not be copied without Adobe's
permission.  In addition, Adobe owns the trademark "PostScript."

Adobe will enforce its copyrights and trademark rights; however, Adobe
does not intend to exclude anyone:

	from writing programs in the PostScript language;
	from writing drivers for the PostScript language; or
	from writing interpreters for the PostScript language.

Adobe's intent is to: (1) maintain the integrity of "PostScript" as a
trademark, so that users and the public will not be confused; (2) to
enable the public to distinguish between Adobe's PostScript page
description language and other page description languages; and (3) to
enable the public to distinguish between Adobe's PostScript interpreter
and other interpreters capable of interpreting the PostScript page
description language.

Adobe gives permission to anyone to copy its copyrighted list of
commands to the extent necessary to use the PostScript page description
language to write programs in the Postscript language and to write
drivers that issue PostScript language commands.  The only condition of
such permission is that anyone who uses the copyrighted list of
commands in this way must include an appropriate copyright notice.

This limited right to copy the copyrighted list of commands is given by
virtue of Adobe's public statements and no written confirmation by
Adobe is a condition of such use.  However, Adobe will provide a
written confirmation to anyone who requests one.

This limited right to copy the copyrighted list of commands does not
include a right for such users to copy the PostScript Language
Reference Manaual, the PostScript Language Tutorial and Cookbook, or
the programming code in Adobe's PostScript interpreter, in whole or in
part, in any manner except as set forth above.

A copyright license is available from Adobe for anyone who wishes to
write an interpreter using Adobe's copyrighted list of commands.  Such
a license must be in writing.

The trademark PostScript should only refer to the page description
language which Adobe originated and controls.  Adobe also uses
PostScript to identify its interpreter; no permission is given to
anyone to use PostScript as a trademark for any software product or
manual.  Anyone who refers to the trademark PostScript nust also do so
in accordance with Adobe's then current Trademark Reference Manual.

The trademark Postscript may not be used to refer to a page description
language which differs from the page description language that Adobe
originated and controls.  For example, if an interpreter supports a
subset or a superset of the Adobe page description language, it may not
be referred to as PostScript-compatible; however, a licensee may state
that its interpreter supports a subset or a superset, as the case may
be, of Adobe's PostScript page description language.






In article <12039@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com> cjc@ulysses.homer.nj.att.com (Chris Calabrese[mav]) writes:
>In article <17139@ut-emx.UUCP>, lihan@walt.cc.utexas.edu (Bruce Bostwick) writes:
>> In article <4163@udccvax1.acs.udel.EDU> fowser@vax1.acs.udel.EDU (Scott Fowser) writes:
>> >Does anybody know a site to ftp code for displaying Postscript
>> >programs on a Sun graphics display?
>> 
>> Get NeWS -- it's a complete desktop system based on Display PostScript.
>> With that, using the command 'psh' will give you good PS debugging.
>> Don't know exactly where to get it, because I can't seem to recall if it's 
>> proprietary or not -- you may have to talk to Adobe ...
>
>I don't know how the idea started spreading that NeWS is a form
>of Display PostScript.  The first time I saw a reference to this idea was
>in a Byte article.
>
>Let me assure you, NeWS is not derived from Display PostScript but was done
>independantly by Sun using the Red Book as a guide.  Originally, Adobe
>licenced the PostScript name to Sun because NeWS was fully Red Book conformant,
>but has since refused to let Sun use the name due to NeWS not being compatible
>with Display PostScript (read - NeWS came before Display PostScript).
>So far, Sun has used the name PostScript anyway.
>
>In any event, you certainly don't have to talk to Adobe.  In fact, they'll
>probably refuse to talk to you about it.  Contact your Sun sales rep.
>I believe the cost of NeWS1.1 binaries is around $100, so it shouldn't break
>your pocketbook.  X/NeWS, due to come out "any time now", will
>support X11 and NeWS simultaneously and without performance degredation
>(relative to what I don't know).
>-- 
>Name:			Christopher J. Calabrese
>Brain loaned to:	AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill, NJ
>att!ulysses!cjc		cjc@ulysses.att.com
>Obligatory Quote:	``Anyone who would tell you that would also try and sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.''