Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: nlt@macbeth.cs.duke.edu (N. L. Tinkham) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: The Fallen Fundie Rambles On... Message-ID:Date: 14 Aug 89 03:50:15 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Duke University CS Dept.; Durham, NC Lines: 41 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu Darren Provine, speaking about disputes over the nature of Hell, writes: > And the specifics don't seem terribly important in practice -- most people > agree that there is some kind of judgement, and Jesus spoke of Gehenna as a > Bad `Place' -- so quibbling over the particulars of what Bad `Things' are > `There' seems to me a divisive exercise, and to no particular end. (That > is, having arguments and using doctrinal differences to draw lines between > `us' and `them' -- having an interesting philosophical discussion about this > stuff is a different matter.) I agree that drawing lines between "us" and "them" based on speculative beliefs is undesirable. However, I can see beliefs about the nature of Hell having importance in practice, in that (for me, at least) the existence and nature of Hell has implications for the goodness and badness of the creation and, by extension, of God. If, for example, there is a state of everlasting torment which many people eventually endure, then the creation contains an infinite cruelty which God either cannot or will not redeem. It is the ancient Problem of Pain ("How can a good, omnipotent God coexist with suffering?") rewritten in infinite terms. The problem becomes that much more serious if it is combined with a soteriological system based either on predestination or on correctly-guessed belief. More benevolent eschatological systems -- universalism, for instance, or Hell as annihilation, or Hell as a state of finite duration -- give us a different picture of the creation and the Creator: evil and suffering are temporary, and good is ultimately triumphant. My own beliefs are a firm "I don't know" :-) , so I am not arguing for one view over another here; several different views can be supported from Scripture. I am arguing that one's answer to just how "Bad" a "Place" Hell is can affect one's beliefs about God (To what extent is God an infinitely good being, to be trusted, and to what extent a cruel being, to be appeased?), and that can have practical implications. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You wanted justice, didn't you? Nancy Tinkham There isn't any. There's the world..." nlt@lear.cs.duke.edu -A. MacLeish rutgers!mcnc!duke!nlt