Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!psuvax1!ukma!xanth!mcnc!decvax!virgin!zinn!pulsar!gmd From: gmd@pulsar.UUCP (George MacDonald) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Minix, Unix on the Amiga, and flames - Extingushed - fizzle Message-ID: <1201.AA1201@pulsar> Date: 11 Aug 89 05:57:09 GMT Followup-To: comp.sys.amiga Lines: 151 > *sigh* Here I go again. Geesh what a lot to respond too, I'll cut it down to just a couple of points > Kevin> I'll agree with you that AmigaDOS is half way decent for the > Kevin> user interface, although from a programmer's standpoint, the > Kevin> operating system itself is about the buggiest thing I have ever > Kevin> seen. When my Amiga crashes CLI's for no apparent reason, I > Kevin> would tend to think there must be something better out there, > Kevin> especially since Minix comes with SOURCE CODE!!!! Get Real!! My amiga runs for days/weeks on end without crashing. In some ways it's been more reliable than my sun's at work with their new major OS release 4.0/4.0.1/4.0.2/4.0.3 ...... It's not the OS that's causing your problems. I run all sorts of stuff i.e. DCRON/AmigaUUCP/pyro/backdrop/wicon/mclk/ virusx/ all the time!! Then I run a lot of the following doing all sorts of business things - Word processing, Accounting, mail, logging into various sites .... Directory of Work:c 14compress AmigaCron Anews Anews-SetUp Brun Compress Detab Entab ErrorLOG From GPrint Head IconImage Mail Man More New_Mail New_News OnePlane Play8SVX Pnews-E Pnews-M PostNews Pyro ReadMsg Rmail Rnews RunBack SetFont Shar ShowFont TSnip Tail Tee Trunc UUCP UUhosts UUlog UnBatcher UnShar ViewILBM VirusX arc backdrop booz calls csh dcron file files flow fold fts ispell less lpr mclk news_filter.sh newzap nro prnro profile qcat qt smush stevie strings subj.bak subj.sh tar tek uls unbatchfc ushow uuCICO uuDECODE uuENCODE uuNAME uuPOLL uuX uuXQT vi vt100 warp wc whatcpu whereis wicon xicon zoo Most of these are very reliable public domain programs that make life on the Amiga a joy!!! > First, I think AmigaDOS's UI sucks. But that depends to a degree on > what you're used to. I'm used to Unix, and I find AmigaDOS annoying > and clumsy, and often frustratingly limiting. What a load of absolute drivel!! AmigaDOS is not that much different than unix sh, CLI is even better in some way's. More natural history than csh/ksh and more consistent arguments than the multitude of unix programs. If you miss *.?[0-9]funky.stuff then get the csh for the amiga. I use it all the time now, it's reliable and I don't have to think about which machine I'm on. What IS poor is the BCPL shit showing up in the programming interface. ^ | Your point is well taken, your language is not!! Read NETTIQUETE AGAIN!! >I don't see that Minix/Unix on an Amiga need be any more of a headache >for system maintenance and administration than AmigaDOS itself is. >Yes, Unix is multiuser, but that doesn't need to complicate things >much. Managing an AmigaDOS system well can be a lot of work as well. >[unless you LIKE using only the stock configuration...] Having just repaired my hard drive on the amiga and debugging a new disk installation on some sun systems I would say the amiga is A LOT easier to deal with!! It is much better at fixing the file system, diskdoctor is easier to use than fsck/fsdb. > Bernie> There are also other disadvantages to Unix-like systems. I've > Bernie> not seen one yet that had decent real-time response. > And how often do you run across Unix systems without MMUs? Virtual > memory can slow a system way down. (So much easier on the Amiga, it > just crashes.) Real-time Unix systems DO exist. Most are not. The > Amiga Exec OS achieves excellent response by not supporting VM, > message-passing by reference, strict task prioritizing and other such > little tricks. They can work nicely and attain impressive speed and > response time, but there ARE clear drawbacks. ^ | You really mean good design decisions and clear tradeoffs. No system can give you everything, the amiga operating system gives perhaps the best single user co-operative multitasking system available today. Virtual Memory and protected systems are only really required in multi-user systems when one needs protection from other users. I am willing to trade the advantage of VM on MY machine to achieve maximum response. The Amiga has done a very good job at this, my 2500 FEELS very fast and very smooth. I never run out of memory an IF the machine crashes I know instantly who caused it, ME not some one else hacking on a device driver. > The responsiveness of Exec is excellent. AmigaDOS isn't always so > hot. Consider directory scans, a VERY common operation, which is > slow as all hell. [and don't bother to mention FFS -- it's > backpatching to make the file system what it should've been to begin > with.] There is still room to improve FFS, perhaps caching the file names in a fname block list. This would provide a quick dir at the exspense of more work when adding/deleting files/dirs. Also the disk can be packed more efficently, without messing with the basic model of file system structure. And FFS is not THAT different than the original file system. > Bernie> There is also a more elegance of design to the AmigaDos > Bernie> system. > AmigaDOS? More elegant than Unix? Don't make me laugh. The model of devices being dynamically loaded entities is just NOW being added to unix as is shared libaries and er um windows. Each OS has some winning "features" and each has some things not to be proud of. > Bernie> but it's the utilities! Finally a meaningful comment!! But then spoiled by foul language again!! > Bernie> Life is not worth living if I can't come in early in the morning > Bernie> and grep a few files to start my day. With make, diff, awk, > Bernie> etc. etc. etc. life is so much easier. Oh you mean like the make, diff, egrep, sed, tee, ... on MY amiga Of course I just need to click on that cute little box in the upper right and pop up my vt100 window which automatically logged into the Sun just as I got up. Geesh and I haven't even finished eating breakfast yet!!! > Yes. See you knew I was right 8-). Go ahead, make myday -- /\ George MacDonald, Pulsar Software Inc. - Unix Software Consultants _____/ \ _____ ..{harvard,decvax}!zinn!pulsar!gmd or gmd@pulsar.mv.com \ / \/ 36 Hickory Ln, Windham, N.H. 03087 Tel (603)-434-2614