Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!att!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!ginosko!aplcen!aplvax.jhuapl.edu!genesch From: genesch@aplvax.jhuapl.edu (Eugene Schwartzman) Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc Subject: Re: Learning Ada Message-ID: <2582@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> Date: 9 Aug 89 15:37:53 GMT Sender: news@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu Reply-To: genesch@aplvax.jhuapl.edu (Eugene Schwartzman) Organization: The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory Lines: 83 In article <15126@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU> zuhn@umn-cs.CS.UMN.EDU (david d [zoo] zuhn) writes: #In article <5595@ficc.uu.net> peter@ficc.uu.net (Peter da Silva) writes: #>In article <6205@hubcap.clemson.edu>, billwolf%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu (William Thomas Wolfe,2847,) writes: #>> OK; let's imagine. Student gets syntax error. [...] Student #>> shows the program to the local Consultant [who] points out #>> the obvious error. #> #>Ever been a consultant at a university comp center? I have. The next #>stage, if the student is working in Fortran, C, or some other production #>language (ADA wasn't around back then), is... # #I currently am a consultant in a CS lab situation.. # #> Student comes back in 10 minutes with the same error. #>or... #> Consultant spends 10 minutes explaining error to student, and #> maybe fails. Meanwhile 6 other students get tired of waiting... # #except that 4 of those 6 students are having the same problem, so your #5-10 minute explanation isn't going to just one person, if you understand #what everyone else is gong through. Now you're guessing, and what of they aren't??? And even if they are odds are you will still have to re-exaplain the problem to 1 or 2 of them. # #>If the student is programming in Pascal, they are much more likely to #>understand the error. # #I disagree there. Obvious syntax errors are obvious syntax errors. Ada #is better for students, because many problems I encounter are people who #cannot quite remember when to use 'var' in a paramater declaration. 'in' #and 'out' are very obvious. Well, then they are just plain stupid and don't deserve to be in programming to begin with. The first programs I wrote all used 'var', we didn't even get into value passing until we ran into recursion. With Ada, you need to remember when to use in/out and when not too, granted it is very obvious, but even still with them you have in, out, in/out combinations, with 'var' you have just one 'VAR'. # #>ADA is considerably more complex than Fortran or C. # #and any course which introduces a language doesn't make full use of that #language. ever see an intro to c course that make use of doubly linked #lists of pointers to function which return a pointer to another function? #I haven't? But I've used such twisted arrangements. In a beginning level class???? Please try to remember that the ongoing discussion is concentrated about the *BEGINNING* level class. Also, if you used such a twisted arrangement in a program in the 'real-world' the boss would tear your head off. The idea in the 'real' world is to keep it simple enough so that people can look at it years later and understand what is going on. Take a look at that program 5 years later, and see if you can figure out what is going on - bet you can't. # #My first HLL was pascal, and most of my programming has been done in pascal. #I was thrust into doing an ada assignment, and I did the whole thing in about #three hours, without any problems at all. One of the few lucky ones, or the assignment must of been very simple. # #I'd much rather have to deal with students learning Ada than students learning #Pascal. It just seems a little less arbitrary to beginners, unlike most #of the Pascal I/O support. I know Pascal I/O is so hard - open, close, read, write, as compared to the simplicity of ADA - with TEXT_IO, use TEXT_IO, with FLOAT_IO, use FLOAT_IO, with FIXED_IO, use FIXED_IO, etc.. etc... Give us a break.. ADA uses a multitide of packages if you want to print out a simple statement that uses different types, Pascal has a simple write/writeln statement. gene schwartzman genesch@aplvax.jhuapl.edu _______________________________________________________________________________ | GO BEARS, GO CUBS, GO WHITE SOX, GO BULLS, GO BLACKHAWKS, GO TERPS !!!!! | | Soccer is a kick in the grass (and sometimes on astroturf)! | | GO DIPLOMATS, GO STARS, GO BAYS, GO BLAST !!!! | | CFL -> GO EDMONTON ESKIMOS!!!! VFL -> GO CARLTON BLUES !!!! | |_____________________________________________________________________________| Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not of my employer.