Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!watmsg!sccowan
From: sccowan@watmsg.waterloo.edu (S. Crispin Cowan)
Newsgroups: can.general
Subject: Re: Scene at a Roman Catholic cathedral near you a few years ago.
Message-ID: <28448@watmath.waterloo.edu>
Date: 18 Aug 89 01:58:43 GMT
References: <3984@looking.on.ca> <1479@apss.apss.ab.ca> <619057392.19843@telly.on.ca> <1482@apss.apss.ab.ca>
Sender: daemon@watmath.waterloo.edu
Reply-To: sccowan@watmsg.waterloo.edu (S. Crispin Cowan)
Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 118

In article <1482@apss.apss.ab.ca> jhp@apss.ab.ca (Herb Presley, Emergency Planning Officer) writes:
>"Thank goodness for the RIGHT WING POLICE.  They will make sure that NOONE gets
>to defend anything to do with that....that....that....(sputter,
>choke)...CHURCH!

Say what?  The right wing is usually composed of christians (like
Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, Ronald Reagan . . .) and the left that
attacks the church (secular humanists).  It's only us libertarians
that attack the church while (wrongly) being tarred as right-wing.
You missed the point.
 
>> Church leaders are granted special standing in their community, in some
>> cases wielding more power than politicians. And unlike any politician,
>> they also are respected because of their ethical judgement.
>
>So are parents.  So are teachers.  So are social workers.  So are the police,
>in fact.  So are emus.  When's the last time you saw an emu in the national 
>headlines?  Or a parent?  Or a teacher?  Or a social worker?  Or a cop?
>Pedophiles come from EVERY walk of life.  Or didn't you know?  Huh?
I don't know where emus come into this, but the rest of these people
are HUNG OUT TO DRY when they commit such an offence.  That is the
point that evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) is trying to make when
he talks about people granted special moral status in our society.
All of the above people have special status and privileges, along with
which they get special responsibilities.  That's what all the fuss is
about, the priests violated their special trusts, and are now being
held responsible.

>> expected to maintain the unnatural state of forced celibacy for the rest
>> of their chuch careers.
>
>Baloney says I.  The priesthood is like any other vocation in one respect.  You
>can leave it if you so choose not to be celibate.  No, I think you are treating
>this issue with as much superficiallity as the rest of the issues we are
>discussing here.

Read the text:  'rest of thier church careers'.  Evan states the facts
precisely.
 
>Now isn't that interesting.  The law!  Well, there was a law against abortion
>also until several months ago when the Supreme Court of Canada struck it down
>and left the country in one mell of a hess regarding the issue.  The law, sir,
>is not infallible.  In fact, many times it is dead wrong!

What does the striking down of an un-constitutional and grossly unjust
law have to do with anything in this discussion?

>> 2) Because the Roman Catholic Church, more than other religions,
>> believes that sexual union is only for the purpose of procreation, and
>> still believes homosexuality (sodomy) to be a sin against God;
>
>Sorry, homosexuality and sodomy are not the same thing.  You can have sodomy
>between a male and a female.  Homosexuality is a sin against your own life.  A
>sin in which you put your own life at risk, (and the live of others whom you
>may never see, may never know).
So homosexuality is a sin.  Wonderful; and you accuse me of being
right-wing.

Homosecual acts are not inherently dangerous, but sodomy is; however,
sodomy with a condom is about as safe as a sexual act can get.  Check
out the RC position on condoms; they're a sin, too.

>> 3) Because the Roman Catholic Church, more than any other religion,
>> loves to instruct the world on such proper sexual conduct;
> 
>Yes, and from what I see of the world's current sexual conduct, it appears that
>nobody has been listening anyhow, so why make such a big deal about it?
Where have you been?  The current social trend is towards
safe-sex--i.e. use a condom.  Again, check out the RC position on
condoms; if the world listened to the RC church on this point, it would
be a much poorer place.

>> Pete Rose also has a sickness, which and has (in the minds of some)
>> tarnished the reputation of his entire sport. That hasn't kept the Johnny
>> Carsons of the world from getting lots of monologue mileage out of it.
> 
>Oh yeah.  The Reverend Jimmy Carson.  Pastor of the late night television
>evangelists.  Listen to him!  He'll not lead you astray.  Two broken marriages
>and earnings in the six figure range.  But he speaks the truth!  The church
>doesn't, but HE IS INFALLIBLE!  Wow!
Again, you miss the point.  The idea is that very high people who
stoop very low become the butt of humour.  No one claims that Carson
speaks the truth, just that he is a popular cynic.  Ad homenim
arguments don't cut it; critisize the content, not the person.

>> These priests have embarassed their church and humiliated their
>> communities. They deserve whatever they get - maybe more.
>
>If you don't like the church, why do you care?  Don't you think they have
>humiliated themselves also, just a little bit?
So what.
>                                                Don't you think that if they
>could stop their bahavior, they would?
Not in the least, that's why I want them in jail for a long time, and
stigmatized for life.
>                                        Instead of speaking from the back of a
>very high horse, why don't you go down to your local prison - they have one in
>your community.  Go in and meet some of the inmates.  In fact, go into the
>protective custody unit.  MAYBE YOU'LL MEET A SEX OFFENDER!
The reason that I want these guys in jail is so that I never have to
meet them.  Get a clue.
>                                                             Sit down and talk
>to him/her.  The first thing that will strike you is the fact they are human!
The first thing that the other inmates discover is that these guys are
the scum of the earth (which the rest of us already know).  That's why
they are in protective custody, because they aren't even fit company
for criminals.


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