Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!att!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!unmvax!gatech!prism!bb16
From: bb16@prism.gatech.EDU (BOSTATER,Scott)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.pascal
Subject: Re: Pascal text (query)
Summary: What's wrong with TP?
Message-ID: <1482@hydra.gatech.EDU>
Date: 15 Aug 89 12:23:42 GMT
References: <650@njitgw.njit.edu> <3725@buengc.BU.EDU> <6499@pdn.paradyne.com>
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 66

In article <6499@pdn.paradyne.com>, reggie@dinsdale.nm.paradyne.com (George W. Leach) writes:
> 
> >Turbo Pascal, while a semi-user-friendly programming environment, is
> >nonetheless a typically misfeature-bloated Pascal implementation.
> 
>    Yup.  However, to be fair I *do* think that the system does enough
> to cover up all the gorry details of how does one run a program on the
> particular system that one is on to allow the students to concentrate
> on what they are supposed to learn ---> Pascal.
> 
  Yep, let them learn about the details of compling in a complier class. Let
  them learn about pascal in a pascal class. When I took my first pascal 
  classes, we were given batch files that would do the compling, linking,
  generation of a list file, run the program and print the results. The
  batch file was approx. 40 lines long. In TP all I have to do is press
  cntrl-F9. In a begining programming class I'ld rather have my students
  learning how to develope algorithms, not how to fight the compiler/sytem.

>          I do feel that somewhere down the road there needs to be a switch
> over to a more powerful implementation of Pascal.  The students will quickly
> outgrow the need for the training wheels that Turbo provides them :-)
> 
  What limitations? I've used TP to write general purpose MS-DOS utilities,
  radar modeling software, implement dsp algorithms, generate high 
  resolution graphics (monitors and printers), and more. I haven't found
  any application where TP *wouldn't* let me do what I wanted to do. This
  has been a constant source of disscussion/argument between myself and the
  "C weenies" where I work. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know what I can't do :)

> >Without the actual manual, students will beat themselves silly trying
> >to track down bugs and to write routines for which library
> >procedures exist.
> 
>    Instructors too!  I had to *BEG* to get a manual when I was there.

  Buy a copy. At Georgia Tech we've got purchasing agreement with Borland.
  $45 for TP5.0, $55 for TP5.5, $15 for upgrade of 5.0 to 5.5, $55 for
  TC 2.0, $48.0 for TASM/TDEBUG. If your school doesn't have as good a deal,
  maybe you should find out why. At $45 for TP5.0 there no excuse for not
  having the manual. I've paid a whole lot more for standard text books
  that were totally useless and you can use TP as long as you use an MSDOS
  machine. (wheter that's good or bad, I'll leave to comp.sys.nit-pick :)) 

  BTW, have you tried the cntrl-F1 key? It'll give context sensitve help. As 
  you compile and reach an error, pressing cntrl-F1 can usually show you
  the syntax of what you're trying to do. If you want to know what TP 
  *standard* :) library routines exist, you can find them using the same
  context sensitve help. 

> 
> >Further, these kids aren't going to be using Turbo all their lives.
> 
>    Bingo.  See above.

  Regreatably, I wish everyone liked TP as much as I do. Unfortuneatly, the
  world seldom knows whats best for it :). I can compile 7500 lines of code
  in 11 seconds in TP5.0 (with a $5000 Dell 310).  On a $50,000 Masscomp 
  computer running unix, it takes 2.5 minutes to compile 2500 lines of C.
  Granted this isn't fair comparison, but the ratio of bang-for-the-buck
  makes me cry.

-- 
Scott Bostater      GTRI/RAIL/RAD   (Ga. Tech)
"My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from Him"  -Ps 62.1
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