Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian
From: mls@mhuxu.att.com (Michael L Siemon)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: secondary causation
Message-ID: 
Date: 12 Aug 89 01:42:41 GMT
Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 42
Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu


I'm picking up on the moderator's comment, rather than on
Lance Beckner's questions:

> The classic answer to 1 is that in predestination God uses secondary
> causes.  That is, when God decides that someone is going to be saved,
> he also sets up the way that this will happen.

I'm afraid my mind goes into a state of dissociation at about this
point in the development.  Assuming that God works through "secondary
causes" it becomes totally unclear to me what sense "cause" has in
the discussion.  At that point, the doctrine of predestination seems
to have as its only content an affirmation that there is no other
(ultimate) power but God and that subsidiary causes must all be
viewed as deriving from God's will.  Which I don't dispute, but I
don't see much point to it in that case.

In other words, I can vaguely understand predestination as a sort
of backhanded way to deny Manichean dualism.  But I am at a loss to
understand any positive signficance for the doctrine.  Would anyone
care to explain?  (This is an open invitation to the moderator or
anyone else who wants to take a stab at it.)
-- 
Michael L. Siemon		I say "You are gods, sons of the
cucard!dasys1!mls		Most High, all of you; nevertheless
att!sfbat!mls			you shall die like men, and fall
standard disclaimer		like any prince."   Psalm 82:6-7

[I have a feeling this issue has already come up before, but maybe I'm
remembering something in talk.religion.misc.  I object to
predestination when it is presented as intellectual speculation.  So I
am quite sympathetic with your concern to give it a positive
significance.  I think there are several.  For Luther, the main
importance of election seems to be its connection with grace.  For
him, it was good news because it means that his salvation is based,
not on anything he did, but on a decision by God.  Another concern,
which I think is more evident in Calvin, is the connection with
providence.  Christians are asked to believe that everything that
happens is under God's control.  Thus we are to have confidence that
whatever happens to us is meant by God for our good.  (I admit that in
many cases this is hard to see.)  In order for this to be true, we
must believe that every human action is part of God's plan.  --clh]