Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!nyser!njin!princeton!phoenix!bskendig
From: bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hypercard
Subject: Re: Visual effects, menubar, SysEnv-XFCN
Message-ID: <9981@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 89 20:17:12 GMT
References: <1989Aug16.214948.8911@sics.se>
Reply-To: bskendig@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Brian Kendig)
Organization: Systems Engineering, NASA Space Station Freedom Project
Lines: 76

In article <1989Aug16.214948.8911@sics.se> ollef@sics.se (Olle Furberg) writes:
>  Don't hide the menubar if it's not absolutly necessary!

I beg to differ.  Read on.

>  I have seen several HC-beginners rebooting their Macs when the menubar
>disappers: you don't help anyone by hiding the menubar. Without the menubar,
>you don't know how to get the message box or how to get help: you don't even
>know how to quit! 

If you're writing a program for beginners, they may not know what a menubar
is.  I'm doing a project that will be placed in a museum, and the last thing
I want is for somebody to accidentally choose 'Quit HyperCard' and begin
putzing around in the Finder.  If the users don't know how to get the message
box and they're not supposed to anyway, they're not going to miss anything.
If you do expect them to type commands, create a button to toggle the message
box on and off.  If you provide help, add a Help button.  If you want them
to be able to quit, give them a Quit button.

>  The disappearance of the menubar confuses everybody, even an absolute
>Mac-beginner. The first thing I learned on the Mac was to select menuitems!

The audience I'm creating my stacks for are not absolute Mac-beginners.  I
assume that they have never before *seen* a computer.  If I put a button
reading "Click On Me" in front of them, and tell them which end of a mouse
to click on, they will never need to know how to select "Go Next" from the
menubar.

>  The fact that HyperCard contains a way to hide the menubar does not justify
>the use of it: As I've understood, Bill Atkinson ((the creator of HC)) has 
>never been interested in the Apple desktop-metaphor!! (But without him, we
>wouldn't have any HC!!!)

Ah, but HyperCard is no desktop.  It is a wonderful way to gently lead people
by the hand into the world of computers.

Giving people power just enough power to do what they are supposed to do
is a good way to make sure that are able to control their actions.  
Put a beginner (or a computer-illiterate!) in front of a machine and give
him the run of it, and he'll either be overwhelmed, screw things up royally,
or perhaps both.

If you think the user will need to get to the menubar, show it.  If you
don't think he should have it, hide it.  If it doesn't matter, leave it
alone; otherwise you can add scripts to make sure it stays hidden or
visible (such as one I'll mention in a moment).

>  One interesting question is: should it really be any difference between the
>Apple desktop metaphor interface and the HyperCard interface? What's Apple's
>official opinion? Will HyperCard and (Multi)Finder be the same program in
>system 8.0?

Both interfaces are a common extension of one theme: to make the user as
comfortable as possible in any given situation.  With the Mac, things are
done intuitively: you drag files in the Finder; you click on arrows in
HyperCard.  Within certain guidelines, the interface fits the need.

>  If you really must hide the menubar (for e.g. cosmetic reasons) check the
>environment first: use the SysEnv-XFCN in the TN stack.

A very good idea - and remember: If you're using a big screen on your Mac
and you don't like the menubar vanishing on you all the time when you run
stacks designed on smallscreen Macs, include this script in your Home stack:

  on hide what
    if not (what is menuBar) then pass hide
  end hide

This checks if you're trying to hide the menu bar, and only passes the message
if you're not.  I've found it more than a tad useful.

-- 
| Brian S. Kendig       |  I feel more like I   | bskendig                   |
| Computer Engineering  |  did when I got here  | @phoenix.Princeton.EDU     |
| Princeton University  |       than I do now.  | @PUCC.BITNET               |
| Systems Engineering, NASA Space Station Freedom / General Electric WP3     |