Path: utzoo!attcan!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!ncar!unmvax!brainerd
From: brainerd@unmvax.unm.edu (Walt Brainerd)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.fortran
Subject: Re: Two Fortran Standards
Summary: Reasons for objections
Message-ID: <290@unmvax.unm.edu>
Date: 19 Aug 89 15:44:33 GMT
References: <282@unmvax.unm.edu> 
Organization: University of New Mexico at Albuquerque
Lines: 39

In article , bill@ssd.harris.com (Bill Leonard) writes:
> First, let me say that Walt is wrong when he says that X3J3 has voted
> consistently in opposition to subsets and separate standards.  X3J3 has
> been consistently *divided* on this subject!  In several straw votes, X3J3
> has been almost evenly divided between 1) neither subsets nor separate
> standards; 2) a subset; 3) a separate standard.  The last vote in which
> I participated was 13-19 on the subject of retaining F77 as a separate
> standard -- hardly an overwhelming vote on either side.

As I said, X3J3 has voted consistently against (13-19 is a nice example).

> It seems reasonable to me that, if users really are demanding the features
> in 8x, then retaining FORTRAN 77 will be a no-op, because they'll all be
> using 8x.  I fail to see why the 8x proponents are opposed to giving the
> users the chance to choose for themselves; it seems a perfect opportunity
> for them to prove that 8x is better by letting it win in the marketplace,
> and that they don't need the big club of ANSI or ISO or the U.S. Government
> to make 8x a success.

The objections are very simple.  If the work project from the very beginning
had been to develop a second standard, instead of revising and extending F77:

   a)  Probably most of us wouldn't have bothered.  "New" languages seldom
       succeed, whatever their virtues.

   b)  If it had been done, a very different standard would have been
       developed.  Fortran 8x has been kludged to death, creating some
       horrible messes trying to accommodate those who want to make all
       of the features of F77 be integrated with the new ones.  Having
       caused this mess, now some like Bill say it should stand on its own.
       This can be nothing more than one more attempt to kill any effort
       to create a revised, modern Fortran, while using the evolutionary
       approach to protect the investment in current Fortran programs
       and programmers.
-- 
Walt Brainerd  Unicomp, Inc.           brainerd@unmvax.cs.unm.edu
               2002 Quail Run Dr. NE
               Albuquerque, NM 87122
               505/275-0800