Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!wasatch!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!ficc!karl
From: karl@ficc.uu.net (karl lehenbauer)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.misc
Subject: Re: Which language to teach first?
Message-ID: <5783@ficc.uu.net>
Date: 18 Aug 89 15:39:42 GMT
References: <2552@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu> <6204@hubcap.clemson.edu> <5594@ficc.uu.net> <1501@shuksan.UUCP>
Organization: Ferranti International Controls
Lines: 49

In article <1501@shuksan.UUCP>, scott@shuksan.UUCP (Scott Moody) writes:
> Remember that the first language you are taught in CS101 is also the 
> main language you use throughout undergraduate education (outside of
> the many languages course). 

Pshaw.  No decent CS school should let you have a degree without learning
several languages.  At Indiana University, circa 1976-1980, you could not
escape without learning (at least) Pascal, LISP, Snobol, Algol, FORTRAN
and TI 980 assembly.  Some CS201 intro classes were taught in FORTRAN,
some in Pascal, and the honors class was taught in LISP (at least when
Doug Hofstader or Dan Friedman taught it)

Someone pointed out that the high-level lanuages are pretty far removed from
the hardware.  I agree and that's why I think an architecture (computer 
structures) class with assembly programming (which included toggling a few 
programs in through the front panel)  was nice.

> There are a lot of jobs in industry
> that need Ada programmers and it is still the job of the Universites
> to teach/prepare its students for the real-world. 

There are a lot of jobs in industry that need COBOL programmers but I don't
think it's the job of the Universities to teach/prepare its students for *that.*
In other words, that there are Ada jobs is not an inherently compelling reason 
to teach Ada.

> So what good is
> it to teach them pascal if they never use it, other than for the
> techniques? 

For the techniques.  Because declarative languages are a lot alike.

> Try explaining to you future employer that you were
> taught to 'learn' other languages easially when they are looking
> for expert Ada programmers. 

After college you can't learn any new languages?

> The first thing they do is send
> you to an Ada course anyway.

So I don't have to learn it in school after all, and anyway, who is this 
*they*, bucko?  You write as if Ada is the only thing people program in.  
In fact, programming in Ada is still a minute fraction of total programming.
I've programmed professionally in C, PL/M, Pascal, Forth, FORTRAN and
pdp11, Z8000, 80x86 and 68000 assembly languages.  Your Ada-view is overly
restrictive.
-- 
-- uunet!ficc!karl	"Have you debugged your wolf today?"