Xref: utzoo comp.mail.misc:1430 news.admin:4141
Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cwjcc!gatech!mcdchg!ddsw1!karl
From: karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM (Karl Denninger)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc,news.admin
Subject: Misuse of email privileges (Was: Re: bigoted racist misuse of email)
Summary: Hate Mail is part of the price (perhaps now I'll get some more too) :-)
Keywords: email
Message-ID: <2295@ddsw1.MCS.COM>
Date: 1 Dec 88 21:03:11 GMT
References: <10676@ihlpa.ATT.COM> <11242@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> <5917@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
Reply-To: karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM(Karl Denninger)
Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc., Mundelein, IL
Lines: 77

(Note that I have heavily edited the newsgroups line to restrict the
discussion to places where it seems to belong)

In article <5917@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> skyler@ecsvax.UUCP (Patricia Roberts) writes:
>In article <10676@ihlpa.ATT.COM> davidm@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Makowsky) cites an
>instance of abusive email.
>
>It is my guess that most women on the net who have gotten involved in any
>substantial debate have received an almost identical piece of mail.  
>
>Perhaps it is not something restricted to women; I don't know.  

You're right -- it's not something restricted to women, or Jews, or ANY
other group.

I've been told to "eat %%%% and @@@" more than once on the net via email.
If it gets out of hand (only once) I email to the sysadmin of the site which
originated the mail.  Who knows whether anything was done -- the attacks
ceased, and that was all that I wanted accomplished.

I'd bet that anyone who takes a controversial stance in public is gonna have
a few people say nasty things to their face or behind their back.  That's
part of the cost of standing up in a crowd and expressing a possibly
unpopular opinion -- even given that your opinion is just as valid as the
next person's.

To turn around and post said email to the net, rather than take it up
privately with the people concerned, is rediculous.

(IMHO: This time you have to drop the relevance of the word "jewish" in
       the by-now-often-quoted mail; REMEMBER that Nancy has been involved
       in a rather vitriolic discussion of late on JUST that subject... if
       the email came out of the blue to someone who hadn't been involved in
       the nastyness on the net this would not be the case.)

The person who did this should be taken to the task -- but via reasonable
means.  It is _obvious_ that at least one of these messages is forged -- thus 
there is NO information content in the headers (or body, for that matter).

I'm gonna draw a few conclusions here.  Anyone else care to comment on the
relavence of these observations?

1) The original flap was about some jokes in rec.humor.funny (which I have
   read), and ignited a massive flame war in about a dozen newsgroups.

2) Nancy Gould was involved in that flame war; one of the results of that
   was that someone (or more than one someone) sent her some nasty email.

3) Mr. Makowski takes it upon himself to post the mess to the world at
   large; email that is of bogus origin (ie: no information content for
   people to work with -- just more fuel for the fire).

4) Someone (else?) takes it to the general media, in an inflated and
   distorted form (which is usually how the media gets things).

Can anyone besides myself see an intentional pattern of escalation here,
rather than an attempt to solve the problem at hand?


You people want to solve this?  Kill all the darn noise for starters.  It
makes for interesting reading but doesn't bring any enlightenment.

Nancy, Mark, 
Skyler and others:  If you don't like the fire, get the heck out of the 
		    boiler room.  It is a fact of LIFE that people who speak 
		    in public on topics such as these WILL be heckled,
		    ridiculed, and yes, even slammed in a generally
		    obnoxious manner.

If I had a nickel for every flame or abusive posting that I have ever read, 
in email or on the net publically, directed at myself, I would be rich.  I
suspect most other netters who take "non-mainstream" opinions would as well.

--
Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, ddsw1!karl)
Data: [+1 312 566-8912], Voice: [+1 312 566-8910]
Macro Computer Solutions, Inc.    	"Quality solutions at a fair price"