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From: coughlij@clutx.clarkson.edu ( Jason Coughlin,221 Rey,84176,)
Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.physics,comp.edu
Subject: re: How to beat the high cost of text books!
Message-ID: <1809@sun.soe.clarkson.edu>
Date: 6 Dec 88 04:09:53 GMT
References: <1124@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu>
Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu
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>From: vkr@osupyr.mast.ohio-state.edu (Vidhyanath K. Rao)
>Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.physics,comp.edu
>Subject: Re: How to beat the high cost of text books!
>
>Ultimately the blame must fall on the students (as somebody else pointed
>out). You see, in basic courses, I would rather ask the students to buy a
>problem book, and may be one (or more :-) books out of a short list.
>
>Unfortunaltey, students feel uncomfortable about this. In fact, a biologist
>collegue of mine was bemoaning the fact that students wnat to know which
>pages of the text were going to covered on a given day, rather than knowing
>the name of the topic alone. I often feel the same way. In fact, when I
>lecture, I give only the name of the topic. But student think that that is
>too little. If that the way they feel, they deserve to be gouged.

	I think this is really malicious and unfair!  Please tell me exactly
what problem you're solving by raising the cost of books!!  I'll tell you
what problem you aren't solving!  You aren't solving the problem of
motivating students to READ the textbooks and UNDERSTAND the textbooks.
	And, your incurring the problem of obtaining the textbooks.  I'm ahead
of my schedule.  I'm only a sophomore and I have Tanenbaum's OS book and 
"The Dragon Book" on my bookshelf which I intend to read well in advance of my
OS and Compilers course.  Want to know how much I paid for those two books?  I
paid $100 for 2 books.  NOT PRETTY! At this price, I can understand why a lot
of students wouldn't be willing to buy them!!

>From: cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin)
>Newsgroups: sci.math,sci.physics,comp.edu
>
>I will not even give out in advance what topic I will cover on a given day.
>This is even the case in multi-section course in which the other sections are
>doing this.  I do not necessarily follow the same order as the other sections.

	And what problem fits this solution?  I'm thankful my professors give
me an itinerary for the entire semester.  I read the material before the
lecture, go to the lecture, and well-la, I've been exposed to the material
twice.  By looking at the material ahead of time, I get a perspective on the
concept so that I can ask questions about the application.  Don't tell me that
you understood physics and calculus the first time you were exposed to it in
a classroom because I don't buy it (Pun intended!)

>But the students want to know what will be covered on a given day, and what 
>will be on the examinations.  Our examinations should have at least half the
>questions things which can be done by someone who understands the concepts 
>but not the manipulations, and cannot be done by someone who has merely 
>memorized the various types of manipulations.  I suggest that the liberal
>use of crib sheets be allowed in mathematics examinations.  A formula can
>always be looked up in the real world; a definition can be looked up; a
>theorem can be looked up; the understanding of what these mean cannot be
>looked up.

	Now THIS is a solution!  And I agree entirely!!  In fact, so does
my comp sci professor.  All examinations are open notes and open book.  Any
data structure, any formula, any algorithm already written can be looked up.
However, his problems are new faces on old people.  One must find the solution
not just the forumla. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Coughlin,
jk0@clutx.clarkson.edu, or
jk0@clutx, or
coughlij@clutx.clarkson.edu, or
coughlij@clutx