Xref: utzoo soc.culture.jewish:8559 news.misc:2240 news.sysadmin:1804 Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!rutgers!mailrus!cornell!oravax!harper From: harper@oravax.UUCP (Doug Harper) Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,news.misc,news.sysadmin Subject: Re: Anti-Semitism (Jew-hatred) on the network. What should be done? Summary: The net is asserted to be a free-speech forum. A legal fund for Ms. Gould is suggested. Message-ID: <586@oravax.UUCP> Date: 3 Dec 88 21:57:07 GMT Organization: Odyssey Research Ass., Ithaca NY Lines: 79 References: <1748YZKCU@CUNYVM> <577@oravax.UUCP> <44387@yale-celray.yale.UUCP> In article <44387@yale-celray.yale.UUCP>, engelson@cs.yale.edu (Sean Philip Engelson) writes: >In article <577@oravax.UUCP>, harper@oravax (Doug Harper) writes: [Earlier discussion of censorship elided.] >>Can it be done? Perhaps. Should it be done? Never. >>The expression of all views is protected by the Constitution. > >May I ask the esteemed gentleman in what Article or Amendment to our >Constitution it is written that a man has the right to unlimited >access and expression on the net? I believe that Mr. Engleson has misunderstood me. I'm not saying that everyone has an absolute right to access to the net, just that access may not be denied or revoked on the basis of what the individual says on the net. My position is that the net (though not every participating site) is publicly funded (through state universities and the Department of Defense), and is therefore a free-speech forum. This convinces me that not even a private site may revoke an account for the purpose of silencing a user. > To pursue `reductio ad absurdum', >do I then have the right to demand my right of free expression on the >local television station to foment rebellion against the government of >these United States? There seem to be two questions here. First, there is the question of his demanding to use a private resource in order to speak. Second, there is the question of fomenting rebellion. If Mr. Engleson demanded to speak in my house or my ice cream parlor (if I had one), I could legitimately refuse him. If I owned a television station, though, I'd be using a public resource, the "airwaves", under license, and would not have an absolute right of refusal. But if I am correct about the net's being a free-speech forum whose operating costs are publicly defrayed, both of these would seem to be beside the point. Could someone who is expert in communications law speak to this? I stand corrected on the second question. I spoke too strongly: the Constitution does not protect the expression of all views, but in the Schenk case in 1919, the Supreme Court ruled that only "clear and present danger" justifies the limitation of free speech. Under the Smith Act of 1940 there is no right to foment rebellion against the government. To the best of my knowledge, this is the law of the land, but again, this would be better addressed by an expert. [Quotes from earlier postings about the verbal attacks on Nancy M.] [Gould deleted.] >Prosecution was not called for, my dear sir. What was called for was >that this incident be brought to the attention of the bigot's >sysadmin, for him to deal with in an appropriate manner. It was not >suggested that the man be thrown in jail. I have to disagree: those actions are *not* appropriate. What is appropriate is for Ms. Gould to file criminal charges. I would like to suggest that she set up a fund for her legal expenses. I would be glad to contribute, and I'm sure many others feel the same way. It may be difficult to discover who (do we know it's a male?) is reponsible. Not being a net.wizard, I don't know how difficult this is. I do know that there are a lot of clever, decent people out there who ought to be able to help find out who the culprit(s) is(are), if these outrages continue. I sympathise with Ms. Gould for the pain she has felt, and would like to offer this as comfort. You have nothing beyond name-calling to fear from wannabee Fascists who don't even have the courage to give out their names. -- Douglas Harper (speaking only for myself) Odyssey Research Associates | oravax!harper@cu-arpa.cs.cornell.edu ARPA 301A Harris B. Dates Drive | {allegra,rochester}!cornell!oravax!harper UUCP Ithaca, NY 14850-3051 | (607) 277-2020 extension 276