Xref: utzoo comp.ai:2822 talk.philosophy.misc:1691 Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!cwjcc!hal!nic.MR.NET!tank!mimsy!dftsrv!ames!amdcad!sun!quintus!ok From: ok@quintus.uucp (Richard A. O'Keefe) Newsgroups: comp.ai,talk.philosophy.misc Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence and Intelligence Message-ID: <821@quintus.UUCP> Date: 7 Dec 88 20:27:54 GMT References: <562@metapsy.UUCP> <2732@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> <563@metapsy.UUCP> <1841@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> <817@quintus.UUCP> <1847@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> Sender: news@quintus.UUCP Reply-To: ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) Organization: Quintus Computer Systems, Inc. Lines: 33 In article <1847@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> geb@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu (Gordon E. Banks) writes: >In article <817@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: >>In article <1841@cadre.dsl.PITTSBURGH.EDU> geb@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu (Gordon E. Banks) writes: >>>The behaviorists have shown that behavior which subjectively seems >>>to us to be caused by intention can be determined (even hypnotists >>>can demonstrate this), >> >>Er, how do hypnotists demonstrate that? > >People who were hypnotized usually report not that they were >compelled to perform the suggested actions but that they "felt >like it". In other words, the subjective impression was that the >actions were voluntary, yet they do ridiculous things that are clearly >determined by the suggestion. If you wish to claim that post-hypnotic >suggestions are true free-will voluntary actions, then I can >only argue with your definition. I note that Banks didn't quote the bit where I pointed out that hypnosis is understood these days as a sort of voluntary fantasy: the subject does what s/he thinks a hypnotic subject ought to do. To say that the actions "are clearly _determined_ by the suggestion" begs the question. How would you show that an action performed in response to a post- hypnotic suggestion is not voluntary? (Anyone who wants to claim "I was hypnotised" as a defence in court had better be prepared for a nasty surprise.) The thing is, being-a-hypnotic-subject is a social context in which it is acceptable, even *expected*, for the subject to "do ridiculous things". Try instead a hypnotic experiment where the subjects are told in advance that if for every commmand they obey they will be fined $100, or try a stage hypnotist's act with an audience of confederates who boo whenever the subject does something silly. Instead of arguing with my definition of "voluntary", it might be better to read up on hypnotism in the scientific literature.