Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!apollo!oj From: oj@apollo.COM (Ellis Oliver Jones) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apollo Subject: Re: Hey Apollo folks...Listen up Summary: GPR IS NOT UNBUNDLED! Message-ID: <40147143.d5b2@apollo.COM> Date: 5 Dec 88 21:04:00 GMT References: <8811160706.AA01866@umix.cc.umich.edu> Reply-To: oj@apollo.com (Ollie Jones) Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 101 In article <8811160706.AA01866@umix.cc.umich.edu> FERGUSON@BKNLVMS.BITNET writes: > Did the graphics developers have any say in this decision > to charge extra for GPR? Once again with feeling! HERE'S THE SCOOP ON UNBUNDLING! GPR is bundled. The whole kit and kaboodle, including /lib/gprlib and all the header files, is bundled with the system software. I just rechecked the software release areas for SR9.7.1, SR10, SR10.p (DN10000), and SR10.1, and I know this to be true. GPR will also be included with SR10.1.p. If it isn't I won't sign off on it. I cannot imagine a Domain/OS system in which GPR was not present. I don't think it would work at all. Everything I can think of in the way of graphics and text software depends on GPR, including the DM, X, DSPST, the debuggers, CRP (create_remote_process), the VT100 emulator, the dumb terminal emulator, the 4014 emulator, GNU Emacs, etc, etc, etc. GPR IS BUNDLED. WE HAVE NO PLANS TO UNBUNDLE ANY PART OF GPR. PERIOD. --- -- ------- -- ---- -- ----- -- -------- --- ---- -- --- ------ > Charging extra for GMR 2D, and 3D have been bad enough ... We've charged extra for 3dGMR almost since its beginning. It's a lot of code, it's costly to develop and support, the two large manuals are expensive to print and ship, and not everybody wants it. At SR10, 2dGMR did get unbundled. However, every node still has a license to use 2dGMR at runtime. That's still bundled. If you want to use 2d GMR with SR10, you have to get the bits and the manual somewhere. If you get the bits and the manual from Apollo, we charge you $180 at most (sorry, I don't know prices or order numbers) for a media kit. You don't have to buy one kit per node, you just have to get the bits and the manual somewhere. By hook or by crook! Multiple node sites usually buy just one runtime kit, at most. Lately we are charging substantially more for the 2d GMR DEVELOPMENT kit to new customers. Anyone who was a 2dGMR user before Feb 1st, 1988 is "grandfathered," however. These customers (including Scott Ferguson at Bucknell and David Krowitz at MIT) can, if they wish, order the developer's media and documentation kit (again $180 at most). I'm sure there are less formal and equally good ways of getting the bits and books as well. If you have 2dgmr-dependent software which you wish to give to someone else, give them the gmrlib too if you like. They're not violating their license agreement by running 2d gmr on their nodes, even if they don't get the bits straight from Apollo. Please do take care to make sure you run the right version! Otherwise you're not taking advantage of a lot of Apollo's hard work in configuration testing, and you may get bizarre errors. Many customers will buy a runtime kit so they can be sure about this, although you don't have to if you know someplace else you can get it. > I'll bet you're about to pull one of those IBM/Microsoft moves > and make the current GPR calls incompatible with the next > version like you did with GMR2D, so that we'll absolutely > have to buy it. Baloney. Speculation. FALSE. We put a lot of effort into GPR compatibility, and it would be over the dead bodies of many engineers here that we'd pull such a stunt. Plus, many key OEMs and software vendors would drop us like a dirty syringe if we were so stupid. Plus, we're not unbundling GPR. This is not to say that we couldn't clean up the GPR interface a lot if we could make incompatible changes. From the point of view of the cleanliness and ease-of-use of the GPR interface, it's too bad we can't change GPR. > I think I'm going to stop telling our potential Sun customers > to consider Apollo before buying. Why should I do you people any more > favors? Please don't do that! We do need your support! > A note to you Apollo R&D folks responsible for the development > of GPR, GMR2D and GMR3D: I would like to hear from you on this net > to explain whose brilliant idea this is, and whether you agree or > not. Hey, I'm not going to break ranks (any more than I've already done in this message :-). Seriously, I do agree with the current policy as it stands. I don't agree with charging extra for GPR or 2d GMR runtime. Fortunately, that's not the current policy. It is, however, a great shame that we didn't get the word out sooner and more clearly about the 2d GMR change. Just finding it gone, without explanation, certainly eroded your confidence, and for a really dumb and avoidable reason. No one person's to blame. Now we have to work to regain the trust we lost. You all can help! Quit with the false rumors about unbundling GPR, willya plluueeezze? If we at Apollo can give any further clarification on these issues, please ask. Thanks again for your business, and thanks for taking the time to help straighten this out. /Ollie Jones Graphics Software Engineer, Apollo Computer, Inc.