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From: bbh@whizz.uucp (Bud Hovell)
Newsgroups: news.sysadmin,comp.mail.misc,news.misc,comp.mail.uucp,news.admin
Subject: Re: bigoted racist misuse of email and computer accounts must be dealt with
Summary: ...just a thought...(long)
Keywords: sysadmins should act to stop racist email
Message-ID: <558@whizz.uucp>
Date: 6 Dec 88 02:20:52 GMT
References: <10676@ihlpa.ATT.COM> <11242@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> <5917@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
Organization: Overture Systems Corp., Lake Oswego, Oregon
Lines: 108

In article <5917@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>, skyler@ecsvax.uncecs.edu (Patricia Roberts) writes:
> In article <10676@ihlpa.ATT.COM> davidm@ihlpa.ATT.COM (Makowsky) cites an
> instance of abusive email.
> 
> It is my guess that most women on the net who have gotten involved in any
> substantial debate have received an almost identical piece of mail.  The
> ethnic aspersion may be left out, but there's usually some other adjective
> in its place.
> 
> Some of the mail has been even more threatening.  
> 
> Perhaps it is not something restricted to women; I don't know.  
> 
> [For some reason, the "eat shit" letter doesn't bother me as much as the
> other--I don't know why.]
> 
> =============================================================================
> -Trish 		 		"We're forced to begin
> 				in the midst of the hardest movement..."
> skyler@ecsvax.uncecs.edu                                    -A. Rich

They both "bother" me in the extreme. Given reasonable motivation, and in
the proper forum, I can hold my own with the most prodigeous profanity. I
do not claim to be speaking as one of the "pure". (Impurity has nothing to do
with offensiveness).

Like a number of other male, white, Anglo-Saxons, I have been following this
discussion with some interest, since the words "racist" and "bigot" have been
bandied about in a sometimes casual - and sometimes hysterical - manner which
(from my limited perspective) tends to dismiss the possibility that people of
my gender and ethnicity have the ability to enjoy humor which makes either
sexual or ethnic references, yet who may not thus necessarily be hidden
racists or bigots. 

But dismissing that point, I wish to lodge my extreme objection to the notion
that *anyone* should be subjected to the kind of treatment cited by Trish and
others. There is *no* circumstance in which such behavior is warranted, and I
challenge anyone to step forward to cite an exception.

The main consideration, it seems to me, is that when someone sends out such
garbage over the net, that this behavior generate the strong possibility of
action which the originator would find very uncomfortable. Most of the people
who behave this way are not noted for their strength of character.

And Trish has the exact right idea:

For example, what if copies of the offending letter were sent to the sysops
at each of the sites in the mail path, for their information of what is going
thru their site from the specific originator? Is this censorship? Absolutely
not! What each sysops chooses to do as a result of seeing such tripe would be
*absolutely* up to that him.

And some sysops - I, for one - would react with some very specific mail to
the originator expressing my unwillingness to tolerate such crude behavior in
correspondence which, after all, relies upon my facilities in order to pass
along to the rest of the world. Copy to his local sysops!

And for most of these people, it would be sufficient to cause them to moderate
their language and baser instincts if they realized that their bizarre beha-
vior might be revealed to people upon whom they are quite dependent for access
to the usenet community.

A second complaint would almost certainly cause me to take more severe action.
Would I cut off the site from which it is originating? You are bloody right, I
would! Without hesitation. And with the requirement that before I put them back
on the air again, the specific user would have to be barred from net usage. And
signed in blood by the sysops of that site. Or go find another feed. Period.

Why is that a problem?

I am constantly amazed at the reaction of many people on the net that they are,
in effect, "victims" - they can't control this, that, or the other. (One of the
funniest ones I've encountered is the disclaimer that "if a site chooses not to
maintain a current map on the net, well - what can anyone *do* about it?").

Well, I'll tell you what, folks. Every one of you has the ability to do some-
thing about grossly objectionable behavior generated by someone downstream of
you. And you need NO PUBLIC APPROVAL for what you agree is objectionable. If
you don't like what is going thru, you have the RIGHT to place limits on what
will be tolerated. Whether you have the *responsibility* to do so is matter
for you to take up with your own value system.

If you receive mail that you find offensive - post it to the sysops in the
mail path, and post it to the net with the sender's name! PLEASE! 

Nobody has a constitutional right to do any damn thing they choose, an one I doubt
that, here on the net, any of us enjoys the full rights granted us in the
Constitution, since the net is voluntary, not in public ownership, and not
primarily supported by public funds. (So for any who may wish to howl at the
moon about your "rights", I strongly suggest you check your holecard.)

You want to stop this garbage? Ok - STOP IT!

The argument has been lodged that active enforcement of basic "rules of the 
road" on the net will ultimately lead to the loss of some sites from the net
because of failure to comply with reasonable policy set up by their net feeds.
If said local policy is *really* that far out of reason, then said sites will
be able to find a feed that is more "reasonable". If they cannot, then it is
*they* who are out of step, not vice versa. And their absence will not be noted.
 
                                                      OVERTURE SYSTEMS CORP. 
                       Bud Hovell                     Operations Specialists
                                                      Lake Oswego, Oregon
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                   "Follow your bliss" - Joseph Campbe