Path: utzoo!utgpu!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!mit-eddie!uw-beaver!cornell!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rg20+ From: rg20+@andrew.cmu.edu (Rick Francis Golembiewski) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Software Development And Piracy (somewhat lengthy and hot stuff) Message-ID:Date: 8 Dec 88 00:45:02 GMT References: <5866@louie.udel.EDU> Organization: Carnegie Mellon Lines: 108 In-Reply-To: <5866@louie.udel.EDU> >frustration came when the graphics were SOO SLOW when AmigaBasic was used >SO AWFULLY COMPLICATED opening a window and reading the mouse >position. So something like "F*CK the OS" and "The Amiga sure is fast >if only this stupid grapics library weren't in the way!" Hold on a sec, yes AmigaBasic is SLOW, but it iis EASY to open windows from AmigaBasic all you have to do is say "Window window-id [,[title][,[rectangle][,[type][,screen-id]]]]"- pg 8-158 of the Amiga BASIC manual (you know the book that comes with EVERY amiga, since way back when 1.1 was around [ie like when I bought my A1000...]). However, opening a window from ASSEMBLY, with out a manual! HA, never, you might as well try poking into random memory to try an change a bit map. I'm sorry, ANYTHING is easier to work with then assembly, assembly is faster, but is VERY COMPLECATED. >And - you might believe it or not >- there are programmers here who don't know C - they open windows in >Assembler, do their switch(GetMsg)... in Assembler. And of course those >guys tried to understand what MFM and SYNC was on the Amiga Look, if they are good enough programmers to understand the window system from assembly then I should think that they would be good enough to get Multi-Tasking to work also. > But: A friend programs >on a game and he needs ANY of the 512 KBytes a standard Amiga has got. >So I wrote im a simple DOS that's reading directly from disk without >trackdisk stuff. He really needs the memory. I guess FLT really needs >the memory for DM. Starglider II wouldn't exist if they used MT. >Don't flame about things you never experienced yourselves. Ok, but if your friend wanted to go commercial, then he should CHECK that it is necessary to kill AmigaDOS, after all most amigas have 1MB or more so any game designed NOW should take this in to account. If I had a 9MB Amiga I certainly bet that DM would not use all the memory, and it would still clobber multi-tasking... Is There any reason why StartGlider II couldn't have an option to ALLOW multi-tasking? Granted it may slow things down and ruin smooth update if you are multi-tasking something on a regular amiga, but what about when the Amiga 3000 with 25Mhz (33Mhz?) 68030 comes along, I bet that StarGlider II would not even come close to useing up all of CPU cycles, not to mention if SGII is DEPENDANT on CPU timing then it will be unplayable on a faster machine... > What do I hear you say? WE NEED a 32bit processor. We >need the Lucas board. I hate saying this but you are no bit more intelligent >than a I*M clone user that cries over Wait states and Norton benchmarks. >Learn to program time efficently. Well I for one ordered the LUCAS project, but now that I have that extra power, wouldn't it be nice if stuff will let me actually MultiTask? By 'Learn to program time efficently' I assume that you mean program things to be AS FAST AS POSSIBLE (or program in assembly), however programming in C is a lot more time efficinet in the sense that if you can create programs faster, and it is easier to divide the work among more then 1 person since C's functions make excelent modules... > I also don't understand why you >want to play ASTERIODS or SPACE INVADERS along with doing work on your AMI? >Using Amiga-N or Amiga-M as a sort of Boss Key??? No, come on. If I want >to play games I play games and that with full concentration. If I have work >to do, I don't need the enemy waiting on the back screen. Typical scenario: I have about a Meg of files to download, I start up kermit, now I can A> sit and watch the blocks count up, or B> start up a game (or even an editor/data base if you really must do work). Which would you prefer? >Copy protection. Useless anyway. No problem for skilled crackers. >But there IS a reason for "copyprotection". Jez San said it. >When you need all memory you write your own loading routines. >Dos uses SO MUCH memory for disk buffers. Intuition eats memory. >Tracksdisk? Can't be used if all else is switched off. Once again you are assuming that ALL amiga have but 512K (so c.100K is a lot), however if you've got 1MB (as most amigas do) then you don't really worry about the memory intuition takes, because it is so useful. And Besides custom Loader DOES NOT IMPLY uncopyable (For Example Rocket Ranger has a fast loader and can be backed up using AmigaDos's Diskcopy), no copy protection is INTENSIONALLY DONE TO STOP COPYING. The problem is that copy protection is a pain because it stops people from having a backup, moving games to harddrives (where they'll load in 15 seconds, rather then seeking endlessly between track 40 and track 79). >Harddisk? Possible perhaps. But >taking over the machine AND loading with dos - FORGET IT. So it's more or >less a "all or nothing" question. And personally I prefer a fast game that >boots at once from disk and loads in 15seconds over a game that needs >1 Meg, makes your drive seek endlessly between track 40 and track 79 and >makes you sleepy while you play. Hold a sec, you can have custom drivers for a drive under DOS (after all that what FFS is at this point) and you could start your game as a task with incredible (ie 128) priority [which BTW will give it priority over system function, which is why ChangeTaskPri recommends a range from -5 to +5]. Well I've gone on a bit myself, but I can't see using the resource requirement as reason for copy protection/killing Multitasking. After all the MOST processor/memory intensive program I have (Sculpt 3D) still allows multi-tasking, (although it effectively takes all the processor cycles of a regular amiga), so asking Joe's Arcade game to at least allow Multi Tasking isn't really asking all that much... +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Disclaimer: Me? Post That, impossible I never post anything... | | TypetoYouLater(Everyone); --> "functional Good bye".... | | Rick Golembiewski [ Pronunciation is half the Battle, spelling the other] | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+