Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!imspw6!bob From: bob@imspw6.UUCP (Bob Burch) Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++ Subject: Re: Ada vs C++ Message-ID: <197@imspw6.UUCP> Date: 29 Nov 88 04:46:04 GMT Organization: IMS Inc., Rockville, MD Lines: 90 From Ted Holden, HTE: ........................................................ Again, I see Ada as the primary programming language in competition with C++, otherwise I wouldn't bother..... From: Thomas Vachuska, HP Roseville Manufacturing Operation >Ted, >you talk (write) too much and you say too little. What is worse, you say that >you do not know what you are talking about. Is this supposed to be an English sentence? I've never accused MYSELF of not knowing what I'm talking about..... >You obviously do not know much >about Ada, for you would not write such non-sense about Ada trying to be an >OS or a 30 line Ada program taking 27 minutes to compile. The computer was a Unisys-Arrete 5000/80 with 4 12.5 mh 68020 processors, the Ada compiler was TeleSoft's Telegen, the watch was an ordinary little black Casio ($15 variety). That was the worst case I ever saw; more normal for small Ada programs on that system was 6 - 10 minutes, still pathalogical. Again, I'd hate to think of three people doing Ada compiles at the same time on that system or on anything like it. >Perhaps 27 seconds >would be more appropriate and even then the program would probably have to >contain at least one generic unit that consists of several hundred lines of >code. The only thing I could imagine compiling Ada that fast would be a Rational (for the uninformed, an $800,000 Ada Software Development work station). Ever wonder why you don't need $800,000 software development workstations for C or C++? Don't worry, it's only the taxpayers' money. From what I hear, good compile speed for Ada on a VAX (DEC's VMS Ada) is measured in hundreds of lines per minute, still pathalogical. Again, I'd hate to see five guys doing it at the same time. Then, there's Ada on the PC (Alsys). Ever wonder why Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, Quick C, Zortech C++ etc. etc. don't come packaged with a LIM board, 2 extra meg of DRAM and a $3500 price tag? From: Erland Sommarskog: ENEA DATA AB, Sweden >And I have seen an Ada compiler compile in just as the same time as any >compiler at that machine. I *have* seen compilers behaving something like >the one Ted describes, but that was five years ago. Things have changed. Translation: "despite the fact that Ada has been out since 1979, Experts are just now getting one or two compilers to perform close to acceptably on today's VAX, 68000 etc. machines..." What about tomorrow's machines, 88000 and SPARK based? Figure they'll have Ada compilers for them by 1999? >Ada wasn't designed to run real-time applications on a time-sharing >system, one should have this is mind. Its real-time primitives were >intended for embedded systems. If you don't believe Mr. Sommarskog, check the Aug 1 88 issue of Govt. Computer News, page 36 "NASA Contractor Finds Ada, UNIX Don't Mix Well". >Probably, with today's computers you >have to resort to the target systems own process handling if you >want to write a fast multi-tasking application in Ada for a system >like Unix or VMS. Not really satisfactory. but what other options >does other langauges offer you? The readers of this group all know the answer to this one and I won't repeat it. The funny thing is, Ada was INTENDED to be the one language which could run on EVERY computer, from embedded system to mainframe, and handle ALL applications; part of the idea was that the same programmers could always go from project A (tank guns) to project B (DBMS system) with no retraining. If Ada CAN'T run intelligently or well on the most common machines which we'll all be living with for the next 15 years (UNIX systems and PC's), then it's obviously failed to meet its primary design objective. What I've been trying to point out is that C++ CAN meet that spec. C++ actually IS the language Ada was supposed to be and never will be, the main language which DOD (and a lot of other organizations) need. Ted Holden HTE