Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!killer!csccat!loci
From: loci@csccat.UUCP (Chuck Brunow)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: disgusting slime (was Re: A SERIOUS DILEMMA FOR THE NET)
Message-ID: <2595@csccat.UUCP>
Date: 22 Sep 88 05:39:41 GMT
References: <265@sulaco.UUCP> <5572@killer.DALLAS.TX.US> <267@sulaco.UUCP> <3144@utastro.UUCP>
Organization: Loci Products
Lines: 87

In article <3144@utastro.UUCP> werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) writes:
>In article <267@sulaco.UUCP>, allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes:
>> In <5572@killer.DALLAS.TX.US>, loci@killer.DALLAS.TX.US (loci!clb) writes:
>> > In article <265@sulaco.UUCP>, allen@sulaco.UUCP (Allen Gwinn) writes:
>
>	[ disgusting slime-throwing contest deleted ]
>
>I consider it a personal offense to be made a witness to a slime-throwing
>contest, and posting this kind of crap in news.admin falls into that
>category.  if you guys don't like each other, please be assured that
>news-admin doesn't want to know about it - so why don't you tell each
>other in private e-mail?  and think about it, do you really care that little
>about the impression you make on readers of news.admin?!

	Get this, one and all: there was nothing offensive, abusive,
	profane, insulting or otherwise objectionable about my posting
	to which you refer. Nothing. The fact that Allen Gwinn responded
	with a completely unprovoked attack is his problem, but I had
	no part in it. None.

	Further, I don't know Allen Gwinn, have never sent e-mail to
	him or responded to any of his posting prior to this occasion.
	Never. Are you getting the gist of this? NOTHING, NONE, NEVER.

	Allen Gwinn has taken it upon himself to flame me on several
	occasions, sends gobs of junk e-mail and otherwise take
	various licenses to attack me. Don't ask me why, I don't know.
	But it is strictly unilateral, and any one who says different
	is a liar. Is that clear? If you show me one message from me
	to him, I'll show you a forgery.

>
>>       The net has a perfectly good mechanism for dealing with postings
>>       that cause aggravation; the reader merely doesn't read whatever
>>       they find offensive. If it's too extreme, unsubscribe.
>
	Several months ago I posted a call to the net to set minimum
	standards for language and conduct and to take the responsibility
	for enforcing them. While my e-mail responding to that call
	was uniformly favorable, nothing was said or done by anyone.
	That is to say that no one is willing to be responsible for
	basic decency, claiming rights loud and long but ignoring the
	fact that rights always imply responsibility.

	Now, I take that to mean that the Usenet policy is "reader beware"
	and that any sort of obnoxious behavior will be tolerated.
	That doesn't mean that I like it or think it's a good idea,
	but I can only do so much myself. If Allen Gwinn is free to
	post slanders and lies about me, there is no way you can tell
	me that I haven't the same right: no way. But I don't choose
	to stoop to those depths and some people seem to think that
	that's a sign of weakness or something, and gives them the
	right to publicly post ridiculous lies. If you want to see
	for yourself, let me know: I've archived the lot.

	Now the net is having gang wars. You asked for it, each and
	everyone who has stood by while they harrass and disrupt
	group after group. You can't blame me for it, I have been
	too busy doing real work to have anything to do with it.
	But there it is. Usenet is the casaulty, as is truth, decency,
	and responsibility. You've made your bed, now lie in it.

>> If it's too extreme, unsubscribe.
>
>	that's like giving up the playground to the bullies...
>
	It's too late to worry about that. This recent fray is the
	result of a gang of bullies who got insulted because they
	couldn't pick on others who emulate them. They want to get
	people disconnected the same way they tried to get me,
	but without real names they were thwarted. Too bad.
	I don't know whether they got their methods from Joe McCarthy
	or Adolf Hitler; both had a similar disregard for others,
	but the bad part is that they're allowed to continue.
	Well, I did what I could and spoke out. What did you do?


>--------------------> PREFERED-RETURN-ADDRESS-FOLLOWS <---------------------
>(ARPA)	    werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu   (Internet: 128.83.144.1)
>(INTERNET)     werner%rascal.ics.utexas.edu@cs.utexas.edu
>(UUCP)	..!utastro!werner   or  ..!uunet!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!werner
>
>
-- 
			CLBrunow - ka5sof
	clb@loci.uucp, loci@csccat.uucp, loci@killer.dallas.tx.us
	  Loci Products, POB 833846-131, Richardson, Texas 75083