Path: utzoo!yunexus!geac!syntron!jtsv16!uunet!husc6!uwvax!rutgers!bellcore!tness7!texbell!ssbn!carpet!bill
From: bill@carpet.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Call for Discussion: Moderation of news.admin
Message-ID: <158@carpet.WLK.COM>
Date: 25 Sep 88 01:03:24 GMT
Article-I.D.: carpet.158
References:  <2728@tolerant.UUCP> <155@carpet.WLK.COM> <6655@chinet.UUCP>
Reply-To: bill@ssbn.WLK.COM (Bill Kennedy)
Distribution: na
Organization: W.L. Kennedy Jr & Associates, Pipe Creek, TX
Lines: 71

>In article <155@carpet.WLK.COM> I wrote:
[ deleted what Patricia isn't talking about ]
>>up to us.  If we react we make it fun and those not amused want to puke.
>>If we ignore, it's not fun and we can get back to the dreary business of
>>news administration.

In article <6655@chinet.UUCP> rissa@chinet.UUCP (Patricia O Tuama) writes:
>You are missing the point entirely.  No one posts to news.admin to be
>entertained.  The reason we posted to this newsgroup was because it is
>read by sysadmins.  Obviously the power behind Usenet resides here.  
>And if you want to address sysadmins as a whole on a particular issue, 
>this is obviously the place to post.

I don't think I missed the point at all, and I whole heartedly disagree
with "the power behind Usenet resides here".  It may be "read by sysadmins"
and I'll not split hairs by insisting that news admins and sysadmins aren't
the same folks, frequently they are.  The "power behind Usenet" resides in
an unwritten and often unspoken sense of fair play, interest in information
exchange, and all around good citizenship.  The SA's and news admins don't
wield much power at all.  We have mostly custodial duties and our power is
what ever our employers/budgeters want us to have.  Sure, we can stop an
account, nuke a newsgroup, but it's not omnipotent, nor are many of us free
to be arbitrary or unilateral.  We still have users (the only reason we
exist) and supervisors.  The "power" resides elsewhere.

>A number of netters seem to be under the impression that this Portal biz
>is very recent, that it began in alt.flame in just the last month or so.  
>But it isn't a recent problem, this has been building in a number of news.
>groups for at least the last three or four months.  It didn't *start* in 
>alt.flame, it ended up in alt.flame.
>
>				at that point trish, concerned		

I suggest that the news reading community and users in general wield a lot
more "power" than the admins.  An abusive site or user can be dealt with
far more effectively if politely informed that they are out of line.  If
they persist in anti-social conduct then the reminders can become more
firm, still polite, and the issue can be taken up with your own admins.
Mail is a lot less efficient way to communicate with a large number of
people, but you don't need to communicate with a large number of people,
just the abusers.  Mail is a lot harder to sluice out and ignore too.
Handling rudeness on the net is a lot easier than on the highway or subway,
you have a pretty reliable way to be sure that your opinion and reaction
reaches the individual you think is responsible.

I applaud Portal's published policy.  I'll suggest/speculate that it was
implemented not because there was a lot of arm waving in net newsgroups,
but because they got a lot of individuals applying peer pressure.  You
can do that all by yourself or along with anyone else who shares your view.
The admins can't do it for you, we can only exert enough authority to
fulfill our responsibility and then only at our own site.  There are many
more of you than there are of us (except each of us is one of you :-) and
that much pressure gets noticed.  That's where the "power" is, not flooding
newsgroups with things that aren't within the reach of the readers.

I took that long to say it because I claimed that the inappropriate postings
were to entertain the poster.  I'm still inclined to think that.  If, as
Patricia suggests, it's a plea for assistance, then the length of my
followup is probably appropriate.  With regard to the "power" of an adminis-
trator, I think I'm pretty hefty, I bought and maintain three usenet sites,
I don't have a supervisor or any subordinates.  If you are everything from
the board chairman to the janitor you must be pretty powerful right?  Nope,
I can't do a thing about an abusive site or user other than what every news
reader on the net can do, discourage, ignore, and try to help when possible.

My apologies for having said so much about something other than news
administration.  On the other hand I still catch hell if the news doesn't
flow... :-)
-- 
Bill Kennedy  Internet:  bill@ssbn.WLK.COM
                Usenet:  { killer | att | rutgers | uunet!bigtex }!ssbn!bill