Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!rutgers!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpda!hptsug2!taylor@limbo.ptp.hp.com From: taylor@limbo.ptp.hp.com (Dave Taylor) Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm Subject: Re: Elm will become a HP-UX standard Message-ID: <556@hptsug2.HP.COM> Date: 28 Sep 88 23:56:16 GMT References: <1000004@hpycla.HP.COM> <9861@tness7.UUCP> Sender: taylor@hptsug2.HP.COM Organization: Hewlett-Packard University Grants Program Lines: 142 Greg Hackney writes: > Elm has been turned over to the public trust by Dave Taylor, > specifically to public domain in the comp.sources.unix netnews > group. And: > This code does not include any proprietary x.400 code that was "leaked". In the interest of only answering this once; I have *not* released The Elm Mail System into the public domain. The Elm Mail System has *never* been in the public domain. What I have done, however, is explicitly allowed people to have *free* access to the source, and have explicitly stated that modifications should be posted to a public place. I have attached the original legal NOTICE shipped with the software to this memo. However, lest you think we're in dire straits, it *is* true that I `signed over the rights' to the Usenet Trust (or some such gig). What this means is that *future development by that group is governed by the rules of that group*. They cannot, obviously, either morally, ethically or legally backtrack and attempt to change the copyright or legal status of the original source. If the Usenet Trust decided that they wanted to take their version and sell it, well, that'd be fine. They could *not* however prohibit others from going back to the last `free' version and duplicating their efforts, then giving it away. In some sense I feel that this is the situation we're in with HP and the group here. In my view we have an unprecedented situation, where a large corporation is willing to go through the significant effort involved in bringing the code up to Hewlett-Packard Release Quality and THEN RELEASE THAT VERSION OF THE SOURCE TO THE PUBLIC. Instead of us fighting about which version should be the base version, I suggest that we try to be a bit more constructive and have the HP people send a copy of their modifications to the Usenet folks, and the Usenet people arrange for a very up- to-date copy of their version of Elm to be transferred to HP in Japan. Then let's consider the time and effort involved, keeping in mind that the two groups *do* have different goals. --- Also, as far as the 'leaked' version, I won't comment on whether 2.0 made it out through legitimate channels or not, but I will point out that there is some question that code not directly related to the X.400 functionality was written/modified while under direct HP contract, which would then make it potentially proprietary code. Fortunately, however, we already know that the HP people involved in Japan are willing to release their version of the Elm Mail System, so the proprietary code question is, in some sense, a moot point. --- Finally, I personally am thrilled and delighted that there is so much interest in the community regarding the Elm Mail System package, but I am concerned that the Usenet Community might well let an unprecedented situation slip through their fingers because of their own belief that the usenet version is superior. I welcome further discussion ... -- Dave Taylor --- attachment: The original license agreement: The Elm(tm) Mail System General Public License (C) Copyright 1986, 1987, 1988 by Dave Taylor COPYING POLICIES Permission is hereby granted for copying and distribution of copies of the Elm source files, and that of any part thereof, subject to the following license conditions: 1. You may, without additional permission from the author, distribute Elm or components of Elm, with or without additions developed by you or by others at no charge. You may also distribute Elm along with any other product for sale, provided that the cost of the bundled package is the same regardless of whether Elm is included, and provided that those interested only in Elm must be notified that it is a product freely available from the author. 2. Furthermore, if you distribute Elm software or parts of Elm, with or without additions developed by you or others, then you must either make available the source to all portions of the Elm system (exclusive of any additions made by you or by others) upon request, or instead you may notify anyone requesting source that it is freely available from the author. 3. In addition, you may not omit any of the copyright notices on either the source files, the executable file, or the documentation, and 4. Also, you may not omit transmission of this License agreement with whatever portions of Elm that are distributed. 5. Lastly, any users of this software must be notified that it is without warrantee or guarantee of any nature, express or implied, nor is there any fitness for use represented. Software is a malleable thing - especially Unix - and the author can in no way guarantee that using this program will not cause grevious damage to your system. Of course this isn't anticipated, but if it does happen, the author cannot be held liable for any damages either directly or indirectly caused by this event. Modification of the system is encouraged, providing that the portions of the system that are from the original still carry the appropriate copyright notices and that the changed sections are clearly delimited as such. The author requests copies of any changes made to ensure that the various versions stay reasonably in sync with each other. NOTE that it is not permitted to copy, sublicense, distribute or transfer any of the Elm software except as expressly indicated herein. Any attempts to do otherwise will be considered a violation of this license and your rights to the Elm software will be voided. Comments on the system and/or this licensing agreement is encouraged. Send electronic mail to "taylor@hplabs.HP.COM". This license was written with help from Scott McGregor. Thanks Scott! ---- Elm is a trademark of Dave Taylor.