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From: pedersen%math.Berkeley.EDU@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
Newsgroups: comp.society.women
Subject: Re: Countering discrimination your children will face
Message-ID: <5396@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>
Date: 21 Sep 88 20:35:10 GMT
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In message <5375@ecsvax.uncecs.edu>,  hplabs!joanne@hpccc.hp.com
(Joanne Petersen) writes:
>  I always felt that I was supported by parents and teachers in my endeavors
>  to learn about mathematics.  How unusual this sounds now, in the context of
>  the 'discrimination' discussion....

I was supported by my parents and teachers too.  The general public is
a different story.  I have a tale of two math majors to tell.

The first math major is me.  Once I'd declared my college major, I was
plagued by people telling me:

	"Oh, my, math, that's unusual for a girl to do"
	"You must be really bright"
	"You don't look like a math nerd (you're really pretty)"
	"You don't act like a math nerd (you have social skills)"

I pretty much ignored these comments, considering them the same way I
consider silly statements like:

	"Math was always my worst subject"
	"I stopped taking math after 8th grade"
	"I hate math"

Which is to say, I take all of these as thoughtless things said by
people trying to make conversation but not knowing what to say.


The second math major is an acquaintance of mine, who was plagued by
the same comments, and _hated_ them.  Hated them so much that she
switched majors in her senior year of college, just because she had
come to hate math (the cause of all these comments) so much that she
would have done anything not to have her diploma say "Mathematics."

She tells me that "Math is unusual for a girl" made her feel like she
was wierd, (or at least that other people thought she was wierd).
"You must be really bright" made her question her ability, because she
didn't think she was exceptionally bright.  She began to think that
maybe she shouldn't be a math major, because everyone seemed to think
only geniuses could do math, and she couldn't see herself as a genius.
"You're much too good-looking to be a math major" also bothered her a
lot, I think because of the implicit message "I can't accept all of
you as you are: either I can see you as a good-looking person, or as a
math major, but not both."  Similarly for "You don't act like a math
nerd."

She also had people tell her, which I never experienced, "Gee, I'm
glad I only found out now you're a math major, because I never would
have gotten to know you if I'd known it from the start."  I think in
particular she got the message "_Men_ won't like you if you're a math
major."

She reacted to all these stupid comments by coming to feel like a
misfit, a pariah due to her math, and thus abandoned the math.


She is now a musician;  I, a mathematician.  I was struck by how
differently we reacted to similar experiences.  I found it easy to
brush society's attitudes off as silly and not worthy of notice;  she
felt society's lack of approval keenly.

[I wonder if it's better for women in c.s.  After all, people at least
expect c.s.majors to make lots of money and often people think they
know what c.s. is when they don't know exactly what it is a mathematician
would do.  TR]