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From: jr@bbn.com (John Robinson)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs
Subject: Re: ./etc/APPLE.  No Free Software for Mac users.
Message-ID: <30209@bbn.COM>
Date: 28 Sep 88 15:05:56 GMT
References: <8809281259.AA01792@prep.ai.mit.edu>
Sender: news@bbn.COM
Reply-To: jr@bbn.com (John Robinson)
Distribution: gnu
Organization: BBN Systems and Technologies Corporation, Cambridge MA
Lines: 72
In-reply-to: jym@PREP.AI.MIT.EDU (Jym Dyer)

In article <8809281259.AA01792@prep.ai.mit.edu>, jym@PREP (Jym Dyer) writes:
>EMACS (the original) was the best editor in the world.  GNU Emacs is now
> the best editor in the world.  Both editors were distributed freely, and
>  they're the best.  And let me tell you something---all the best hacking
>   comes from environments where sharing goes on.

Suppose Apple "wins".  What should RMS (or MIT maybe?) do with all the
companies that have infringed on the EMACS' "look and feel"?

Why didn't Ford sue Chevy over the "look and feel" of the automoblle?
[or do I have the order backward here]

This month's "Digital Review" in rumormonger Charlie Matco's article:

   "My eagerness was spawned by having just viewed the version 2
 field-test release of DECwindows.  I was astonished at just how
 Maclike it made working with a VAX.
   "First off, the physical layout of DEC's windows, complete with
 scroll bars that appear when more data exists than can be displayed on
 screen, was virtually identical to the Mac's.  Then there was the
 launching of files by double-clicking on the mouse [...].  And to top
 it off, the icons used in the paint program apeared identical to those
 in MacPaint.
   "How could DEC possibly avoid a lawsuit, I asked.  Judging by the
 litigious salvos between Hewlett-Packard and Apple, it seemed the
 romance between DEC and Apple would be stormy at best.
   "'Ah,' my lawyer friend solemnly intoned, 'what you must ask is
 "What did DEC get out of the arrangement with Apple?" since every
 legal agreement has a quid pro quo.  Apple got a VAX as a server
 platform, so DEC must have been given something in return,' he
 postulated.  'That something just might be an agreement not to take
 any legal action against DEC concerning DECwindows.'"

Interesting.  Now since DEC windows is really X windows, which is
copyrighted by MIT and redistributable, does the purported agreement
cover all X-derived things?  Will X be the thing that sinks Apple even
if they "win"?  Has DEC really pulled a fast one?

Re: boycotts.  The supposed basis (RMS' words) of the suit is to
increase the value of Apple to its owners.  Stock value is a very
finicky thing; stocks over-react a lot to news tidbits.  I think a
boycott with enough visibility might have a chance at working here.

The situation with South Africa has parallels.  I think the pullouts
of at least some US companies may have been motivated in just such
ways.  Pullouts may, in turn, hurt the people they are supposed to
help *in the short run*; the situation is a lot different from Apple
et al because countries not companies are involved, and fervent belief
in a political end will support an untenable position long past when
it becomes economically painful.  Also, most whites in SA still expect
that they have more krugerrands to lose by sharing power than by
keeping it to themselves.

Another interesting tidbit from DR:

 "Claiming VMS Meets OSF Goals, Olsen Rocks Unix Industry Boat

   "CANNES, France --- VMS is more compliant with the specifications
of the Open Software Foundation (OSF) than any other operating system
available today, DEC President Kenneth Olsen said ..."

... and goes on to talk about whether OSF is supposed to be tied to
AIX or other Unix-derived OS's.  Now, this is starting to sound
familiar.  It's getting to be like the overused term "OSI-compliant".
OSI is a *model* of two communicating systems.  *Any* communication
can be modeled using it, so the compliance claim is vacuous.  Sounds
like OSF could become another such bandwagon.

"GNU is OSF-compliant".  How's that sound?
-- 
/jr
jr@bbn.com or bbn!jr