Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!husc6!cmcl2!rutgers!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpda!hptsug2!taylor@limbo.ptp.hp.com
From: taylor@limbo.ptp.hp.com (Dave Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.elm
Subject: Re: Elm will become a HP-UX standard
Message-ID: <556@hptsug2.HP.COM>
Date: 28 Sep 88 23:56:16 GMT
References: <1000004@hpycla.HP.COM> <9861@tness7.UUCP>
Sender: taylor@hptsug2.HP.COM
Organization: Hewlett-Packard University Grants Program
Lines: 142

Greg Hackney writes:

> Elm has been turned over to the public trust by Dave Taylor,
> specifically to public domain in the comp.sources.unix netnews
> group. 

And:

> This code does not include any proprietary x.400 code that was "leaked".

In the interest of only answering this once;

	I have *not* released The Elm Mail System into the public
	domain.  The Elm Mail System has *never* been in the public
	domain.

	What I have done, however, is explicitly allowed people to
	have *free* access to the source, and have explicitly
	stated that modifications should be posted to a public
	place.

	I have attached the original legal NOTICE shipped with
	the software to this memo.

	However, lest you think we're in dire straits, it *is* true
	that I `signed over the rights' to the Usenet Trust (or
	some such gig).  What this means is that *future development
	by that group is governed by the rules of that group*.  They
	cannot, obviously, either morally, ethically or legally 
	backtrack and attempt to change the copyright or legal
	status of the original source.

	If the Usenet Trust decided that they wanted to take their
	version and sell it, well, that'd be fine.  They could *not*
	however prohibit others from going back to the last `free'
	version and duplicating their efforts, then giving it away.

	In some sense I feel that this is the situation we're in with
	HP and the group here.  In my view we have an unprecedented
	situation, where a large corporation is willing to go through
	the significant effort involved in bringing the code up to
	Hewlett-Packard Release Quality and THEN RELEASE THAT VERSION
	OF THE SOURCE TO THE PUBLIC.

	Instead of us fighting about which version should be the base
	version, I suggest that we try to be a bit more constructive
	and have the HP people send a copy of their modifications to
	the Usenet folks, and the Usenet people arrange for a very up-
	to-date copy of their version of Elm to be transferred to HP
	in Japan.

	Then let's consider the time and effort involved, keeping in
	mind that the two groups *do* have different goals.

	---

	Also, as far as the 'leaked' version, I won't comment on whether
	2.0 made it out through legitimate channels or not, but I will
	point out that there is some question that code not directly
	related to the X.400 functionality was written/modified while
	under direct HP contract, which would then make it potentially
	proprietary code.

	Fortunately, however, we already know that the HP people involved
	in Japan are willing to release their version of the Elm Mail
	System, so the proprietary code question is, in some sense, a
	moot point.

	---

	Finally, I personally am thrilled and delighted that there is
	so much interest in the community regarding the Elm Mail System
	package, but I am concerned that the Usenet Community might
	well let an unprecedented situation slip through their fingers
	because of their own belief that the usenet version is superior.

			I welcome further discussion ...

						-- Dave Taylor

--- attachment: The original license agreement:

                The Elm(tm) Mail System General Public License
  		 
		    (C) Copyright 1986, 1987, 1988 by Dave Taylor

			  	COPYING POLICIES

     Permission is hereby granted for copying and distribution of copies of
  the Elm source files, and that of any part thereof, subject to the following 
  license conditions:

        1. You may, without additional permission from the author, distribute 
           Elm or components of Elm, with or without additions developed by 
           you or by others at no charge.  You may also distribute Elm along 
           with any other product for sale, provided that the cost of the 
           bundled package is the same regardless of whether Elm is included,
           and provided that those interested only in Elm must be notified 
           that it is a product freely available from the author.

        2. Furthermore, if you distribute Elm software or parts of Elm, with 
           or without additions developed by you or others, then you must 
           either make available the source to all portions of the Elm system 
           (exclusive of any additions made by you or by others) upon request, 
           or instead you may notify anyone requesting source that it is 
           freely available from the author.

        3. In addition, you may not omit any of the copyright notices
           on either the source files, the executable file, or the 
           documentation, and

        4. Also, you may not omit transmission of this License agreement with 
           whatever portions of Elm that are distributed.

        5. Lastly, any users of this software must be notified that it is
           without warrantee or guarantee of any nature, express or implied, 
           nor is there any fitness for use represented.

Software is a malleable thing - especially Unix - and the author can in no
way guarantee that using this program will not cause grevious damage to your
system.  Of course this isn't anticipated, but if it does happen, the author
cannot be held liable for any damages either directly or indirectly caused
by this event.

Modification of the system is encouraged, providing that the portions of 
the system that are from the original still carry the appropriate copyright
notices and that the changed sections are clearly delimited as such.  The
author requests copies of any changes made to ensure that the various versions
stay reasonably in sync with each other.

NOTE that it is not permitted to copy, sublicense, distribute or transfer any
of the Elm software except as expressly indicated herein.  Any attempts to
do otherwise will be considered a violation of this license and your rights
to the Elm software will be voided.


Comments on the system and/or this licensing agreement is encouraged.  Send
electronic mail to "taylor@hplabs.HP.COM".  This license was written with
help from Scott McGregor.  Thanks Scott!

----
Elm is a trademark of Dave Taylor.