Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!mailrus!purdue!i.cc.purdue.edu!k.cc.purdue.edu!l.cc.purdue.edu!cik From: cik@l.cc.purdue.edu (Herman Rubin) Newsgroups: comp.ai Subject: Re: Randomness, the universe, and Turing machines Summary: Deterministic -> futile Message-ID: <936@l.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 20 Sep 88 19:19:23 GMT References: <1369@garth.UUCP> <2346@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu> <1383@garth.UUCP> <26154@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department Lines: 29 In article <26154@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, jwl@ernie.Berkeley.EDU (James Wilbur Lewis) writes: > In article <7059@aw.sei.cmu.edu> firth@bd.sei.cmu.edu (Robert Firth) writes: > >In article <388@quintus.UUCP> ok@quintus.UUCP (Richard A. O'Keefe) writes: .................. > Regarding "true randomness": randomness, in a theoretical sense, is more > closely related to predictability than determinism. Turing machines are > certainly capable of outputting highly unpredictable sequences which would > satisfy any statistical criteria of randomness you care to invent. If, by > "random", you mean to imply nondeterministic behaviour, the existence of > "true", physically realizable random number generators is contingent upon > the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics (no hidden variables). > Can you supply a proof that God does indeed play dice with the universe? A deterministic universe implies that all our actions, including this posting, are determined. The philosophical implications of this should be obvious. Quantum mechanics is even worse than randomness. The observations have proper- ties which observe probabilistic rules, but what happens between observations is worse (from a mathematical point of view. No value judgments here :-)). I have no difficulty with probability as a property of the universe, with its behavior included in the description of the physical laws. This has nothing to do with unpredictibility, but with indeterminism. Then there is free will. -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@l.cc.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet, UUCP)