Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!ucbvax!decwrl!vixie
From: vixie@decwrl.dec.com (Paul Vixie)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc
Subject: Re: Bsd Unix -- for "SMALL" BBS system?
Message-ID: <68@volition.dec.com>
Date: 22 Aug 88 05:49:24 GMT
References: <10670@duorion.cair.du.edu>
Organization: DEC Western Research Lab
Lines: 64

[ This ends very differently than you'd imagine.  I made the mistake of
  replying as I went instead of reading the whole original article to see
  what was really wanted.  Some of my comments are still worth reading :-),
  though this is a very strange place to put them.  --vix ]

# Is it possible to bring BSD down to a PC (yeah -- I know.. try not to laugh
# to (sic) hard about this question -- even though it sounds a little primative
# :-) ;-).  What is the MINIMUM Hardware?? 

You need a system with 32-bit memory addresses and a paged MMU.  You could
probably make BSD 2.9 or even 2.10 run on a PC with 16-bit memory addressing
and a segmented MMU, but full 4.3BSD just plain needs a lot of room.

This means: a 386 machine.  A standard 386 with 4MB of memory, some serial
ports, monochrome video (unless you want to write an X11 server, which,
unless you know what I mean, you don't want to do), an 80MB hard drive,
and whatever floppies or tape you want.  An ethernet board would help if
you've got somebody to talk to.

BUT: There Is No Such Thing.  Other than a version of SunOS that was done
for the Compaq 386 to help build Sun's Roadrunner, BSD doesn't run on your
average 386 box.  Sun doesn't think it's in the software business, I guess,
since they have no interest in selling their Compaq port.

BUT: with GCC now able to generate code for the 386 (FP support coming soon,
I hope), This Could Be Done.  All you need is a BSD system to do the devel-
opment on, a 386 system to try your code out on, a $40,000.00 source license
from AT&T (BSD was based on AT&T code), John Gilmore's ANSI-compliant hacks
to the BSD source tree, a great deal of hair on your head (so you can pull
it all out while you work), and someone else to pay your rent and buy your
food for about six months.

I hope someone is working on this, I really do.  But so far, your options
for PC-style machines are: Xenix and SysV/386.  Not much of a choice, I
admit.  Want to buy a Symmetric 375 real cheap?  :-) [sort of]

# For Internet Socketing (TCP) what do you need as far as Hardware.  I guess
# my real question is -- what is the minimum Harware needed for Internet??
# (IE the ability to use "telnet", "rlogin", "rsh", etc??)  Is this network
# cabled together or how it is all hooked up?  

Ah.  You can get the normal "R-utilities" and a socket library from several
vendors, and plug it into a 386 running Microport, Bell Tech, ISC 386/ix,
Xenix, etc.  You'll only be missing:

	fast file system, symbolic links, filenames over 14 characters;
	job control; smart TTY driver that knows how to: delete words,
	delete tabs instead of just backing up one space, avoid backing
	up over your prompt; etc.  (This list goes on endlessly.)

# As a user it's all transparent to me -- so I don't know the full Harware/
# Software needs for this Network.  I just take it for granted that if I
# mail a message to an INTERNET address -- it will get there (most of the
# time :-) -- even though their UNIX may *not* be listed in our /etc/hosts
# file!

Ah, again.  You don't need TCP to send mail.  UUCP from a primitive machine
is quite capable of sending mail which will ultrimately land on some site
on the Internet.  But it looks from your Message-ID as though you are
already on the Internet in some capacity -- so what's the real problem?
-- 
Paul Vixie
Digital Equipment Corporation	Work:  vixie@dec.com	Play:  paul@vixie.UUCP
Western Research Laboratory	 uunet!decwrl!vixie	   uunet!vixie!paul
Palo Alto, California, USA	  +1 415 853 6600	   +1 415 864 7013