Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!ucsd!sdics!clark
From: clark@sdics.ucsd.EDU (Clark Quinn)
Newsgroups: comp.cog-eng
Subject: Re: _The Closing of the American Mind_ (was: Re: Cultural Literacy)
Message-ID: <620@sdics.ucsd.EDU>
Date: 19 Aug 88 19:55:18 GMT
References: <1043@mmm.UUCP> <2776@hubcap.UUCP>
Reply-To: clark@sdics.UUCP (Clark Quinn)
Organization: U.C. San Diego, Institute for Cognitive Science
Lines: 66

In article <2776@hubcap.UUCP> shorne@citron (Scott Horne) writes:
>From article <1043@mmm.UUCP>, by cipher@mmm.UUCP (Andre Guirard):
>< 
>< I've just been reading the book, "Cultural Literacy," by E. D. Hirsch, Jr.
>< It's great.  Anyone who has anything to do with education in the United
>< States (this includes having children in school) should read this book.
>< 
>
>Instead of reading _Cultural Literacy_, read Allan Bloom's _The Closing of
>the American Mind_.  Every American (including schoolchildren--ESPECIALLY
>schoolchildren) should read it!!
>

I actually find both these books have interesting and valid points to
make.*  I also feel that they address only parts of the problem.
Hirsch is right, we do need to have a common cultural background to use
as reference for communication.  But we need more.  I believe Bloom,
taking a broader view, is also right that we need to return to a set of
cultural values, rationally examined, which include the importance of
education.  I feel we need even more.  For one thing, both neglect
cognitive skills.  Just having a breadth of knowledge doesn't insure
that you can effectively use it for problem-solving, argument analysis,
or any of the other practical applications required of the intellectual
mind.

Hirsch's solution, also neglects many of the societal factors that
affect the quality of education in this country.  In the same special
edition about educational issues where I read Hirsch, they pointed out
problems with parents attitudes toward education, parents attitudes
towards teachers, economic pressures on all involved parties, racial
pressures, and more.  Bloom takes a broader view, but his viewpoint is
also simplistic in that his solution to support a liberal arts
education doesn't address pre-existing problems (although I admit I
haven't finished the book, he may go on and remedy that).  I also am
not sure that I will agree with his rationale for the process of 
value selection.

Anyway, I'm glad to see this discussion, we're talking about points
very close to my heart.  I am writing up a dissertation that studies
the effects of training on general cognitive skills.  The results seem
to indicate that
  a) even college students have some deficits in cognitive skills, and
  b) that training can have an effect.

BTW, I do *not* recommend that schoolchildren read Bloom, not because I
think that his points aren't important, but his writing style is so
dense that it might put off the average reader, even if they could read
it without a dictionary by their side.  While you might argue that it
is a good exercise, I would rather they get the exercise following up
on Plato, etc after reading an accessible version of Bloom, for
inspiration.

-- Clark

Clark N. Quinn
Institute for Cognitive Science C-015
University of California, San Diego
La Jolla, California 92093-0115
(619) 534-5996 (UCSD): (619) 457-1274 (Home)
INTERNET: clark@ics.ucsd.edu  INTERNET: cnquinn@ucsd.edu  
BITNET:   cnquinn@ucsd.bitnet 
ARPA:     clark@nprdc.arpa   UNIX: {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucsd!ics!clark

*NB: As I indicated above, I haven't read Hirsch's book, I have read 
a rebuttal by him to criticisms of the book where he reiterates the
argument.  I am in the process of reading Bloom.  However, I believe I
*have* gotten the essence of their positions.