Path: utzoo!utgpu!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!ames!ucsd!sdics!clark From: clark@sdics.ucsd.EDU (Clark Quinn) Newsgroups: comp.cog-eng Subject: Re: _The Closing of the American Mind_ (was: Re: Cultural Literacy) Message-ID: <620@sdics.ucsd.EDU> Date: 19 Aug 88 19:55:18 GMT References: <1043@mmm.UUCP> <2776@hubcap.UUCP> Reply-To: clark@sdics.UUCP (Clark Quinn) Organization: U.C. San Diego, Institute for Cognitive Science Lines: 66 In article <2776@hubcap.UUCP> shorne@citron (Scott Horne) writes: >From article <1043@mmm.UUCP>, by cipher@mmm.UUCP (Andre Guirard): >< >< I've just been reading the book, "Cultural Literacy," by E. D. Hirsch, Jr. >< It's great. Anyone who has anything to do with education in the United >< States (this includes having children in school) should read this book. >< > >Instead of reading _Cultural Literacy_, read Allan Bloom's _The Closing of >the American Mind_. Every American (including schoolchildren--ESPECIALLY >schoolchildren) should read it!! > I actually find both these books have interesting and valid points to make.* I also feel that they address only parts of the problem. Hirsch is right, we do need to have a common cultural background to use as reference for communication. But we need more. I believe Bloom, taking a broader view, is also right that we need to return to a set of cultural values, rationally examined, which include the importance of education. I feel we need even more. For one thing, both neglect cognitive skills. Just having a breadth of knowledge doesn't insure that you can effectively use it for problem-solving, argument analysis, or any of the other practical applications required of the intellectual mind. Hirsch's solution, also neglects many of the societal factors that affect the quality of education in this country. In the same special edition about educational issues where I read Hirsch, they pointed out problems with parents attitudes toward education, parents attitudes towards teachers, economic pressures on all involved parties, racial pressures, and more. Bloom takes a broader view, but his viewpoint is also simplistic in that his solution to support a liberal arts education doesn't address pre-existing problems (although I admit I haven't finished the book, he may go on and remedy that). I also am not sure that I will agree with his rationale for the process of value selection. Anyway, I'm glad to see this discussion, we're talking about points very close to my heart. I am writing up a dissertation that studies the effects of training on general cognitive skills. The results seem to indicate that a) even college students have some deficits in cognitive skills, and b) that training can have an effect. BTW, I do *not* recommend that schoolchildren read Bloom, not because I think that his points aren't important, but his writing style is so dense that it might put off the average reader, even if they could read it without a dictionary by their side. While you might argue that it is a good exercise, I would rather they get the exercise following up on Plato, etc after reading an accessible version of Bloom, for inspiration. -- Clark Clark N. Quinn Institute for Cognitive Science C-015 University of California, San Diego La Jolla, California 92093-0115 (619) 534-5996 (UCSD): (619) 457-1274 (Home) INTERNET: clark@ics.ucsd.edu INTERNET: cnquinn@ucsd.edu BITNET: cnquinn@ucsd.bitnet ARPA: clark@nprdc.arpa UNIX: {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucsd!ics!clark *NB: As I indicated above, I haven't read Hirsch's book, I have read a rebuttal by him to criticisms of the book where he reiterates the argument. I am in the process of reading Bloom. However, I believe I *have* gotten the essence of their positions.