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From: fester@math.berkeley.edu
Newsgroups: comp.society.women
Subject: Re: Women Wizards?
Summary: no fun => no women
Message-ID: <11794@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: 7 Jul 88 04:18:56 GMT
References: <11734@agate.BERKELEY.EDU>
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In article <11734@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> marcia%hpindl8@hplabs.HP.COM (Marcia Bednarcyk) writes:
>
>After reading the discussion on the technical core, a question came to mind:
>why are there no women computer wizards, and what is preventing them (if 
>anything)?

I don't think the answer is nearly so much "what is preventing them" as
"what is not encouraging them."  

It is true in any field that the people who advance the most are those 
who have been 'mentored' throughout their career.  (No, not *every* 
*single* *individual*, but close.)  This is because the most efficient
method of acquiring information is being taught, told, or shown it.

It is not the best way to learn.  It is not the most challenging.  It IS
the most efficient, in terms of time/knowledge tradeoff.

The human factor in computer science is, as far as I can see, larger than
in any other field.  In computer science it plays a dual role: not just
information exchange, but also social context.  If you read the book
"Hackers", for example, you get a very clear sense of how much computing
was a social context, a way of life, far more than an intellectual pursuit.
E.g., it was true for me that in college computer science was attractive
because when I got there, some of the department members were "really
cool". (No flattery intended, Eric :-)  So were the women majoring in
it, when I started.  As they graduated and the "cool" department members
disappeared, I lost interest.

So that there are two important roles the human factor plays in computer
science: providing a social context, an enjoyable environment, a reason
to do it; and creating an information flow.

My sense of why there are no women wizards is that women don't integrate
well in the current hacking scene, and we don't have any of our own.
So the human factor is simply not available to women.  The existing
environment isn't *our* idea of fun, (I do think it is as much 'we don't 
like them' as 'they don't like us') and the information isn't available 
because there aren't any women yet who HAVE it in order to pass it on.  
And yes, men are more reluctant to pass on the "secrets", the little 
details of computing, to women than to other men (in my experience.)

These statements are not meant to be absolutely categorical (i.e. some
women doubtless get along really well in the typically 99% male
hacking environments and manage to get both the social support AND
information one needs to do well) but they *are* often true and are
being offered for further discussion on the issue.


Lea Fester
fester@math.berkeley.edu