Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!ucbvax!agate!eliz@cs.rochester.edu From: eliz@cs.rochester.edu Newsgroups: comp.society.women Subject: Re: Discrimination? Message-ID: <11779@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 88 15:22:24 GMT Sender: usenet@agate.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 76 Approved: skyler@violet.berkeley.edu (Moderator -- Trish Roberts) Comments-to: comp-women-request@cs.purdue.edu Submissions-to: comp-women@cs.purdue.edu Ms. White's letter really hit home: >From: seeker@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu (Karen Lynn White) >Message-ID: <11732@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> >Date: 6 Jul 88 20:48:20 GMT >Have you ever been in a situation where you just wonder if you are >treated differently for being female? How can you really be sure >that some situations are discriminatory? I've been in a bunch of situations that felt fishy to me (but then maybe I'm just insecure, heh, heh!). The most notable have been when I was on the admissions committee for my computer science department and the first pass turned up NO women in the exceptional category. There aren't huge numbers of women who meet our criteria yet, so it could just be statistical, but it seemed odd. When I found good applications and talked them up, we ended up making some offers to women and in fact got three fine ones. I have no specifics to point to, though. I also know that comparably qualified women faculty progress more slowly throught the pay scale here, and are less likely to get tenure, but again, no specifics. Obviously I should look into it. There is this committment issue with women. I don't know many women who are fanatical about their careers to the exclusion of love, family and sleep as a lot of these guys (I do know some.) I don't know whether we (I think I'm a non-fanatic) make up for it by doggedly picking away at the problem in each free moment. But I do know that it's hard to do good Artificial Intelligence research piecemeal. I wouldn't be surprised of one problem of the meritocracy is just that monolithic endeavors are valued more than a fine hand with detail. (compare to the philosophy of women's studies.) On to Karen: >The job is great, even if I am the only female at this location >who is not a secretary. The only problem I have with the situation >is that they paid the guy I replaced $1.5 more an hour than I get. >He worked there about 10 months and did not get a raise during that >time. His GPA is about the same as mine and also hired in as a >senior. The main difference is that he was majoring in 'decision >science' and I am working on an honor's BA in cs and math. It is your right (and no one should be offended) to ask exactly what the qualifications are for the higher pay grade, and also what the outgoing guy's qualifications were. Further, if they can't explain the discrepancy, then you should tell them that you deserve the higher rate too (you know, asserting at this point, not saying anything about gender or their intentions in classing you as they did. It may be honest error or oversight, and even if it wasn't the point is to get it straight.) I bet the student's major did not enter the calculation. >I'm bringing this up for advice but also because I wonder if a >lot of women find a place to work where they can pick up >kids or work flex-time without hassle and then stay there >when the money could be much better somewhere else. Is it >common to settle for fewer benefits in a comfortable place to work? Universities are generally more flexible and less pay than industry, it's true. Consulting should be the best of both, but I don't know any women consultants. Hmmmm... I tend to forget that money can buy other kinds of freedom. Like day care. (do I want to apply to Bloomington to teach AI, Karen?) Elizabeth Arpa: eliz@cs.rochester.edu (Elizabeth Hinkelman) UUCP: ...{rocksvax|allegra|decvax}!rochester!eliz USnail: Department of Computer Science, U. of Rochester, N.Y. 14627 phone: (716) 275 - 2527 (office)