Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!ames!pasteur!ucbvax!decwrl!sun!pitstop!sundc!hadron!inco!mack
From: mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: IDEA: reader-initiated sendme protocol
Message-ID: <2382@inco.UUCP>
Date: 6 Jul 88 14:34:56 GMT
References: <270@octopus.UUCP> <9823@g.ms.uky.edu>
Reply-To: mack@inco.UUCP (Dave Mack)
Organization: McDonnell Douglas-INCO, McLean, VA
Lines: 73

In article <9823@g.ms.uky.edu> david@ms.uky.edu (David Herron -- One of the vertebrae) writes:
>In article <270@octopus.UUCP> pete@octopus.UUCP (Pete Holzmann) writes:
>
>[ ... deleted text about reading a posting describing some archived object]
>
>>The reader could respond simply by hitting the 'sendme' key. A control
>>message would then be forwarded towards the nearest archive site (csu-archives
>>being an alias for the comp.sources.unix archive sites), until it reaches
>>a site that either already has the message in question, or [an efficiency
>>improvement that might be optional at first] until the message reaches a
>>site that has already requested the message. In the latter case, requests
>>would pile up until the requested message arrives, then be filled.
>
>This is oh so very similar to something which has been bubbling
>away in my mind for a long time.  As I see it though, that phrase
>about "would then be forwarded towards the nearest archive site"
>is the sticking point that nobody short of peter honeyman could
>solve.  The problem I see is that this network doesn't live just
>within the UUCP network, but also lives within BITNET and ArpaNet.
>If it just lived within the UUCP world, then finding the nearest
>archive site is simply a matter of running pathalias.  But if there's
>an archive site in BITNET land or Arpa land then it's not so trivial
>to find the nearest one.  Or a user in BITland or Arpaland also
>has a difficult time of finding the nearest archive.

I don't see why this should be so difficult. What's wrong with this:

1) Post source abstracts with a volume number and the Followup-To: line
   set to comp.sources.{machine,OS}.request.

2) In the active file, replace the moderation flag (fourth field) with
   an 'a' for the comp.sources.{machine,OS}.request groups.

3) Hack inews to recognize the 'a' flag as an archive request, which
   it would treat the same as a posting to a moderated group, except
   that it would add an Archive-Request: line to the header which
   would include the volume requested and the address of the requestor.

4) Either get the backbone sites that maintain moderator lists to keep
   a list of archive sites (preferred) or add an archivelist: field to
   the mailpaths file designating the nearest system that maintains an
   archive site list. I believe Bill Wisner is currently maintaining
   such a list. Perhaps he would be willing to mail it to backbone sites
   on a monthly basis? Or I'll shoot this dog.

5) Hack the news at backbone sites to convert postings to c.s.{}.request
   into mail to the nearest archive server as determined by pathalias.

Presumably, both BITNET and Arpanet sites can post to moderated USENET
groups. If that's true, it seems that 90% of the software needed to do
this is already in place, and the changes necessary aren't too horrendous.
The cooperation of the backbone in this is the critical factor.

>The problem here is that nobody (short of peter honeyman) has a
>good map of ALL of the networks which includes weights to different
>parts of ALL of the networks.  Within each network there are maps
>from which weights can be derived (er.. maybe not for the Arpanet,
>I'm not sure).  But since there is no joint map, the "nearest archive"
>cannot be found in the general case.

This is only a problem if you insist on an optimal path. Obviously, this
is desirable, but not essential. In principle, all of the archive servers
could be USENET sites. I'm not sure how the folks on BITNET and Arpanet
would feel about this, but I'm sure they'll give me a clue. In any event,
they wouldn't have to be able to find the "nearest archive", just the
nearest backbone site. This ought to be a simpler problem.

The real problem is that mail transport on the net is a much shakier
proposition than news is. Smart mailers are hell.

Yours for blue sky, handwaving, smoke and mirrors,
Dave (short of peter honeyman) Mack
...uunet!inco!mack
...sun!sundc!inco!mack