Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!lll-winken!lll-tis!helios.ee.lbl.gov!pasteur!agate!sri-unix!maslak@decwrl.dec.com From: sri-unix!maslak@decwrl.dec.com (Valerie Maslak) Newsgroups: comp.society.women Subject: Re: Women Wizards? Message-ID: <11790@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 7 Jul 88 19:35:14 GMT References: <11734@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> Sender: usenet@agate.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: SRI, Menlo Park, CA. Lines: 41 Approved: skyler@violet.berkeley.edu (Moderator -- Trish Roberts) Comments-to: comp-women-request@cs.purdue.edu Submissions-to: comp-women@cs.purdue.edu Marcia, But look at how it works... The original hackers, the guys that PBS had the profile of, were mostly men the average person would call "nerds," antisocial, socially inept....that's why they were in their garage building computers instead of out dancing, right? :-) I'm serious, I knew some of them. The guys who talk Forth and sleep with their mother boards. So then there's this in-club of these fellows, who stay up for nights in a row hacking with each other and more and more similar fellows join them and there are all these role models for what a real hacker/wizard should be. A role model. And that is NOT a woman. So there are no/few role models and an in-club mentality that is the equivalent of an old-boys network... rituals, even. And these fellows aren't comfortable with women by and large, so a woman who tries to get in to the club, well, she's an alien species. She may be tolerated, but she doesn't fit in, belong. Probably she gets discouraged, leaves, quits. And besides, so many women get routed into support or applications and NOT into the deep technical inner sanctum, anyway. Still. Although that's changing, but slowly. Slowly. And you miss the point, you see, because the wizards aren't really support types. Sure they give solutions, but they're not HELPERS, not service oriented. The do what they do and if it helps you, fine. But helping you is not the goal: solving the puzzle IS. And they have to be gutsy and a demon and all those things women are still just learning to be in pursuit of a goal that doesn't help others. Little girls and their dolls, little boys and their machine toys. Erector sets. Computers. No, we're still a long way from breaking down all the barriers. We're not excluded, maybe, but we're sure not included. Valerie Maslak