Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!att!osu-cis!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!bloom-beacon!athena.mit.edu!peter From: peter@athena.mit.edu (Peter J Desnoyers) Newsgroups: comp.misc Subject: Re: Piracy Keywords: copy protection piracy Message-ID: <5591@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU> Date: 1 Jun 88 22:26:55 GMT References: <9160@cisunx.UUCP> <1801@uhccux.UUCP> <807@netxcom.UUCP> <1641@looking.UUCP> <174@proxftl.UUCP> <1654@looking.UUCP> <895@actnyc.UUCP> <501@novavax.UUCP> Sender: daemon@bloom-beacon.MIT.EDU Reply-To: peter@athena.mit.edu (Peter J Desnoyers) Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology Lines: 33 In article <501@novavax.UUCP> maddoxt@novavax.UUCP (Thomas Maddox) writes: > > Finally, I do not believe that capitalism and socialism are at >all the issue here. Only the most primitive and otherworldly communists, >such as the 19th century utopians, have ever believed in total abolition >of private property. In the real world, socialists and communists >alike have laws against theft. Thus, whether we are capitalist or socialist >(or some mixture), we all have to try to come to terms with this new >kind of property. However, the naive idea that property rights are in some way predefined and have existed throughout history is not correct, so an analysis (Marxist or otherwise) of who stands to benefit from what property rights is valid. You do not have to go too far back in the history of Europe to find a time when buying and selling land was not legal. Land belonged to the king, and was granted to his vassals. Similarly, the fruits of a commoner's labors were the rightful property of his lord. Much of the present definition of property rights can be traced to the rise of the towns, and their need to define those rights which would allow them to become independent of feudal rulers. Unfortunately, the good burghers did not write computer software, and so there is not any comparable common law tradition for its protection. Thus we have to make due by thrashing it out in the courts. In the absence (we hope) of the great economic and class changes that occurred during the time in which modern Western ideas of property were defined, any definition of intellectual property which we reach will no doubt be much less permanent, and endowed with less of an aura of moral certitude. Oh well. Peter Desnoyers peter@athena.mit.edu