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Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!oliveb!felix!trwrb!scgvaxd!stb!michael
From: michael@stb.UUCP (Michael)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.misc,news.stargate,news.sysadmin,news.admin
Subject: Re: EndOfSourcesList+AnnouncementOfNetOmbudsman -- communication?
Message-ID: <1626@stb.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 3-Jul-87 18:20:30 EDT
Article-I.D.: stb.1626
Posted: Fri Jul  3 18:20:30 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 5-Jul-87 21:24:31 EDT
References: <266@brandx.rutgers.edu> <8225@utzoo.UUCP> <272@brandx.rutgers.edu> <1917@vdsvax.steinmetz.UUCP>
Reply-To: michael@stb.UUCP (Michael)
Organization: STB BBS, La, Ca, USA, 90402
Lines: 144
Xref: mnetor news.groups:1172 news.misc:694 news.stargate:226 news.sysadmin:272 news.admin:615

Keywords:


In article <1917@vdsvax.steinmetz.UUCP> barnett@steinmetz.UUCP (Bruce G Barnett) writes:
>In article <272@brandx.rutgers.edu> webber@brandx.rutgers.edu (Webber) writes:
>>Of
>>course, my basic understanding of C News is that it is an attempt to
>>make the same old mistakes run faster.  Much more interesting would
>>be to abandon the notion of backwards compatibilty.  This would yield
>>a new net that was initially smaller and preserved many of the virtues
>>of the old Usenet.  Of course, as always, connectivity would be a 
>>problem.  
>
>My initial reaction was to ignore the message. But I'll play Devil's
>advocate.

And let me play Angel's Friend :-)

>Let me try to understand your "WEBBERnews" scheme.
>I will take the position of a net worshiper who listens to his
>net-gods - who have wisely decided that WEBBERnews is the proper direction.
>I will also assume that Bob Webber has everyone's gratitude for
>writing WEBBERnews himself.

And I will be a small site administrator (which I am)

>Now you tell me:
>    I have to maintain two different news facilities simultaneously.
>    This means duplicate spool directories, executables, news readers, etc.
>    Twice as much work, plus potentially twice as much disk space, etc.

Hmm...sounds an awful like the 2.9 to 2.10 conversion. But then, 2.10.3
and 2.11 handle mod groups somewhat differently, and pre 2.10 didn't at all

>My Reaction:
>	Well, that is a lot of extra work. But the gods say it must be
>	worth it.
>
>You tell me:
>	No articles from USENET appear in WEBBERnews.
>   
>My Reaction:
>	Well, it would be faster if there were no articles.
>	By the way, how did you test out WEBBERnews? How long have you
>	been using it and under what conditions have you tested it? (assuming
>	there is no compatibility with Rev B news) Oh, I see. You
>	haven't *really* tested it.

Oh? How long was 2.11 tested? How long/heavy will C news be tested? 
Seriously, I'd be suprised if more than a dozen sites checked 2.11, or if
more than 30 are checking out C. You don't need more.

>You tell me:
>	No article in WEBBERnews appears in USENET.
>
>My Reaction:
>	Okay - let me get this straight. We have these two different
>	bulletin board systems, each with different newsgroups,
>	conversation chains, kill files, etc. I would need two
>        different news readers, archivers, etc. Everyone is using the
>	old system, and *magically* everyone starts using WEBBERnews,
>	because there are no articles posted.

2 different news readers? You mean vn, vnews, rn, rnews (er, readnews)?
You mean emacs? 

And how did you get your users to stop using 2.9 and start using 2.10? Obviously,
you just declare by fiat--chmod -x old.rn; chmod +x new.rn

>	I think I am lost already.

I think so too.

>You tell me:
>    The two news systems are incompatible. That is - they store news
>    in different formats, reside in different directories, use
>    different means of receiving/sending news, keep track of duplicate
>    articles using different systems. Therefore we need two different
>    sets of inews, mail forwarding systems, history files, etc.

Gee, sounds like nntp

>My Reaction:
>	Boy! Bob - you must be some hotshot programmer! How many years
>	did you spend doing this?

"Oh, three or four" :-)


>You might tell me:
>    The good stuff would be posted to both groups. Especially
>    sources. But since WEBBERnews and USENET are incompatible, this
>    would mean duplicate copies of all of the large postings.
>    And since WEBBERnews doesn't have the silly moderated distinction,
>    it will be bigger and cost more than old Rev B. And I would have
>    to support BOTH during the conversion.

Gee. Good stuff is posted to both alt.sources, net.sources, comp.sources.misc.
again, you don't support both; you just switch, and make the old one "read only".
As it expires at the normal rate, you start getting the new one. If a date
is given well in advance for everyone to know about, then the old groups
turn off say, a week before hand, and afterwards people use the new groups.

>My Reaction:
>    So now I have to handle potentially twice as much news as the old
>    system. Well, my system is at capacity. I can't double the
>    resources handling news. How am I going to convert over?
>    As for sources, if they are good, they will be posted to
>    both groups. If they are CR*P, only WEBBERnews has it.

One man's CR*P is anothers godsend. I can do without all those 4.3 only,
can't possibly be converted to a non-soccet, non-X-windows, non-sun
machines cr*p. Because to me (on a SYS3 non-bitmapped) they are cr*p.

>You tell me:
>    At such-a-date, everyone will stop using USENET and start using
>    WEBBERnews. 

Right.

>My Reaction:
>    To quote Bugs Bunny: What A Maroon! 
>    When is Rev C going to be ready? I need to reduce the load on my CPU.
>
>[ p.s.    Gene - you are doing a GREAT JOB! ]
>
>>Of course this is completely different from the `alternative
>>backbone' silliness that I find quite incomprehensible.
>>------ BOB (webber@aramis.rutgers.edu ; rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!webber)
>
>Yes, Bob - it is a different approach. 
>
>Mr. Webber, I find YOU "quite incomprehensible"
>
>--
>"Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I think you just did :-)

>-- 
>Bruce G. Barnett  (barnett@ge-crd.ARPA) (barnett@steinmetz.UUCP)

Michael Gersten

-- 
: Michael Gersten		seismo!scgvaxd!stb!michael
: Monsters from outta space -- 3-11-2