Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!husc6!think!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU!bryce From: bryce@COGSCI.BERKELEY.EDU (Bryce Nesbitt) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: And the winner is... Message-ID: <8707142117.AA00550@cogsci.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 14-Jul-87 17:17:24 EDT Article-I.D.: cogsci.8707142117.AA00550 Posted: Tue Jul 14 17:17:24 1987 Date-Received: Thu, 16-Jul-87 07:23:44 EDT References: <17680@cca.CCA.COM> <979@eneevax.UUCP> Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Lines: 63 Xref: mnetor comp.sys.atari.st:4409 comp.sys.amiga:6497 [ Yes, followups should have been directed to talk.religion ] In article <979@> iarocci@eneevax.umd.edu.UUCP (John Iarocci) writes: >In article <17680@> jack@cca.CCA.COM (Jack Orenstein) writes: >> >>| If you want to expand above 1 Meg [on the Atari 1040ST], >>| you need to start kludging things, and you can't go above 4 even with the >>| biggest hacks. [...] >>| >Jack, I think you've been somewhat misinformed by some obviously well- >intentioned Amiga user. True, the existing Ataris (520ST & 1040ST) cannot >easily be expanded beyond 4 megabytes, but the new Mega STs are reportedly > ^^^^^^^^^^ >expandable to 16 megabytes. So, if you REALLY need the memory, the CLEAR >winner is ATARI. Hold on! Lets drop back to real facts here. The 68000 processor brings 24 effective address lines out to the bus. 24 bits=16 Megabytes TOTAL. From there you go DOWN to add your ROM operating system, chip registers, etc. You can go UP with bank switching and other techniques, but that's NOT what we are talking about. The memory controller chip and other factors limit the 1040ST to just 4 megabytes. The Amiga has no arbitrary limit, but 10 Megabytes fits in real comfortably (you can go higher). The Mega STs will have a limit of 16 Megabytes MINUS a bunch of other factors, just like all the other machines. How you can USE the memory is the only real difference. >>So it's an Amiga for me. I'm looking at this as a machine for the next >>couple of years until 68020-class machines come down in price. Given that >>there are *already* some impressive 68020 boxes for the Amiga, it's possible >>that I can use the machine for an even longer time. > >>| [The] 1040ST can't be >>| upgraded to the 68020; the 24-bit address pointer is engraved in their OS. > >[The Mega STs] supposedly have 68020 support in the form of a 68020 box which >will connect to STs through the DMA port [...] There's a huge difference between having your computer BE a 68020 machine or have it TALK to a 68020 machine. My Atari 800 could TALK to a 68020 box via its (almost DMA) port. The first poster is correct that a non 68020 compatible type pointer is deeply engraved into the ST's operating system. It's possible, but not easy, or clean, to get rid of this restriction. Since the ancient V1.1 of the Amiga operating system there has been a check that will look for the presence of a 68020. If found the system will fiddle with the format of stack frames, enable the instruction cache (it powers on disabled), and set a global bit for all to see. Also starting with V1.1 the OS was sanitized for use with the 68020. Read comp.sys.mac to find out what scattered headaches and glitches the 68020 is bringing to Macintosh world, and Apple was far more prepared for the change than Atari. [ Napalm, meet your more potent brother, USENET flames... ] ----------------------------- |\ /| . Ack! (NAK, EOT, SOH) {o O} . ( " ) bryce@cogsci.berkeley.EDU -or- ucbvax!cogsci!bryce U "Success leads to stagnation; stagnation leads to failure."