Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!utgpu!water!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!ptsfa!ames!elroy!smeagol!jplgodo!wlbr!scgvaxd!stb!michael From: michael@stb.UUCP Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Copy protection: boycott it! Message-ID: <1634@stb.UUCP> Date: Wed, 8-Jul-87 15:17:45 EDT Article-I.D.: stb.1634 Posted: Wed Jul 8 15:17:45 1987 Date-Received: Sat, 11-Jul-87 17:43:35 EDT References: <4826@sgi.SGI.COM> <4238@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <640@nis.NIS.MN.ORG> <4259@jade.BERKELEY.EDU> <2470@husc6.UUCP> Reply-To: michael@stb.UUCP (Michael) Organization: STB BBS, La, Ca, USA, 90402 Lines: 95 Keywords: piracy, copy protection, bungled burglary Summary: Copyprotection causes the games to FAIL *** Flame ON *** ************************************************************************** --- flame off --- In article <2470@husc6.UUCP> hadeishi@husc4.UUCP (mitsuharu hadeishi) writes: > > That's fine for you (and me) Mike, but if you are interested >in getting software out to the masses, which I am, then I'm afraid >we're all going to have to live with copy protection. In order for >large-scale projects such as the ones envisioned by the consumer >software companies to get off the ground, some type of copy deterrent >is going to be required, or the consumer software industry could not >survive. And I feel it is necessary for these kinds of products >to get out there, and for the companies that market them to >stay in business. Of course exorbitant prices for software tools is >abhorrent, but I find that much more abhorrent than copy protection >per se. I often use copy protected software (games) and I am >satisfied with them. Companies such as Borland and Electronic Arts I used to use copy protected software. Why not anymore? 1. The copy protection routines die under 1.2 even when booted from the originals. I mean the protection routines, not the game itself-- it doesn't even make it to the start of the game, and dies with a different guru from 'illegal copy'. This is true of EA's eariler games, AND RECENT games such as sinBAD. Tell owners of the 2000 and 500 that they have to either change ROM's or not use the games availible on the "100% compatible" sister machine 2. The programs don't allow you to do other things. Now we have the ability to kill programs and recover rescources (partially). So, we can start doing something, decide that we want to take a break, play the game, amiga-n, kill the game, and continue work. No can do with most protected software. > >>No, there's one other condition that will cause companies to stop copy >>protecting their software. That's if nobody buys it. They'll either >>stop, or go out of business. > > What will happen is if games are distributed without copy >protection to the mass market (I exclude the Amiga from "mass market >since it tends to be a hacker's machine, and there is a kind of >hacker ethic which precludes illicit copying) is that the game >manufacturers will be unable to stay in business because of loss >of hard-earned remuneration for their work due to illicit copying. It happens even with copy protection. Look at the apple 2, atari 800, or c-64 markets. People not only crack the games, they put ADS for themselves in the cracked games. Heck, I did it on the model 1 also (long long time ago, back when I still had time for such things) > The point is that we need to take care of each other, and >consider other points of view than our own. Some products, such >as programmer's editors, should not be copy protected. Others, >such as games, should be. Those on the edge, like mass-market >productivity tools, should give the buyer an option. There is >nothing morally wrong with copy protection when it is necessary for >the ongoing viability of a company; the user's point of view >needs to be considered as well, but there shouldn't be a feeling >of "US" and "THEM". Companies are vulnerable to the vagaries of >the mass market, and they deserve to be protected. They also need >to listen to users (thus the two-tier copy protection scheme mentioned >earlier.) I think we can all agree that we want a viable, >growing, vibrant software industry that produces products that are >useful and responsive to user needs. I think there is a role for >copy protection in maintaining and improving on this vision. > > -Mitsu Ok, here's what I think we need as far as games go. Personally, I won't buy any product (game, tool, compiler, or whatever) until it passes these 1. Not copy protected 2. Supports multitasking (NO BUSY WAITS) 3. If it hogs the machine, then a pause button will unhog (for games; see mindwalker) 4. Internally consistent (now we're on games) Such as: If you visit a native city and get 5 bearers, visiting your ship and picking up 250 men should not give you 1250 more bearers. And if you have to eat, those bearers should have to eat as well. 5. Good user interface. Do not force me to rotate my joystick, do not turn straight moves into diagonal moves. If you use a mouse as a trackball, either provide an optional filter for the discontinuities when the mouse is raised and put down, or else use the standard input.device chain so that we can provide our own. 6. Work under 1.2 with expanded memory. There is NO game on the market that passes all of these; there are a few that passed 1-5; there are many PD or PA games that pass 1-6. #6 is the most important given the ROM'd kickstart on new machines. This is where copy protections seem to love to die. -- : Michael Gersten seismo!scgvaxd!stb!michael : Copy protection? Just say Pirate!