Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!esosun!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!nick
From: nick@hp-sdd.HP.COM (Nick Flor)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Electronic Arts bashing
Message-ID: <893@hp-sdd.HP.COM>
Date: Thu, 16-Jul-87 18:12:22 EDT
Article-I.D.: hp-sdd.893
Posted: Thu Jul 16 18:12:22 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jul-87 09:01:43 EDT
References:  <2496@husc6.UUCP> <1651@cadovax.UUCP> <880@hp-sdd.HP.COM> <962@gryphon.CTS.COM> <890@hp-sdd.HP.COM>
Reply-To: nick@hp-sdd.UUCP (Nick Flor)
Organization: Hewlett Packard, San Diego
Lines: 80

>In article <962@gryphon.CTS.COM> richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>
>Besides, Keith has built an audio digitizer, written software for it, 
>written a audio playback thing, written an animation scripting program,
>etc. What have YOU written ? Or dont you write software ? Or is is still
>in the *DESIGN* stage ?
>

Gee, you mean Doyle took an A->D chip and interfaced it to the computer?

Well give Doyle a hand.  I wasn't flaming what he's done, just his
ideas on structured design.  As for what I've done.. I write firmware
for our plotters -- graphics/IO.  We sell thousands of plotters
a month.  So I ask you -- How much of my firmware is out there?
As for something many people on the net have used, why don't you look
at UltraRogue version 1.03.  I wrote some of the code for that.  In
particular, the "summon familiar" code, stacking of multiple objects,
the original new-magic system code, the original "pray" code. et al.
However, so as not to incite Herb, Herb Chong wrote most of the code.


I wrote an image creator/animation editor for the Amiga, and I asked for 
25 responses before I souped it up and posted, but I only got about 15 
responses and so I didn't post.  I'm a selfish profit maximizing individual.
I only do things if I expect to get something out of it.

>All I've seen YOU do is bitch at other people on the net.
>Questioning Leo's motivations, indeed! :-)

That's because I admire his creativity.  I realize it's difficult to
sustain that level of creativity without some sort of reward.  I just
wanted to know what his rewards were.

>In all seriousness guys, a good hacker produces good code.
Bullsh*t.  Prove this statement.  First define a hacker.
To me, a hacker is a person who adds to/perverts existing code for his
own programs.  (Code that he usually hasn't written).
Someone who writes good code is a professional, not a hacker.

>All the structured design and analysis will not save an idiot.

It *is* set up to save the idiot.  Do you even know anything about
the structured design/analysis process?  Part of the process involves
going over your design THOROUGHLY with your project team.  You should
be able to catch all the bugs the user could potentially discover through
normal use.  Too many packages out there contain bugs that are discovered
through straight forward exercise of the features or functions -- as opposed
to pathological interference by buffoons.  Structured design eliminates
most of this.

In large projects, the documentation that results from following 
the methodology not only facilitates the delegation of well defined 
tasks to different people but also makes it easier for future project 
teams to understand/fix/enhance/modify etc. the code reliably.

>Pick what you like, use it, and dont bitch about somebody else's tools.
I was bitching about his stupid attitude toward structured design.

>It seems to me that all structured analysis does is prevents you from
>painting youself into a corner. Some people can do this in their heads.

It seems to me that you don't really understand the structured design
concept.

Look folks, I'm just sick to death of some of the sh*tty code that gets 
published.  I'm not trying to flame anyone in particular, just immature 
attitudes towards software design.

When we finally get off of our high chairs and acknowledge that bottom-up-do-
what-comes-easy-first design just doesn't work for software of considerable
size, everyone will be a lot better off.  

Thanks for listening.

Nick
-- 
+ Disclaimer: The above opinions are my own, not necessarily my employers'.    +
+ "What's going down in this world,     | Nick V. Flor                         +
+  you got no idea.  Believe me."       | Hewlett Packard - San Diego Division +
+ "We came, we saw, we it's kicked *ss."| ..hplabs!hp-sdd!nick                 +