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From: george@rebel.UUCP (George M. Sipe)
Newsgroups: comp.emacs
Subject: MicroEMACS and GNU (was standout bugs)
Message-ID: <838@rebel.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 23-Jul-87 23:56:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: rebel.838
Posted: Thu Jul 23 23:56:04 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 25-Jul-87 11:30:44 EDT
References: <384@rebel.UUCP> <3574@oberon.USC.EDU>
Reply-To: george@rebel.UUCP (George M. Sipe)
Distribution: world
Organization: Tolerant Systems, Atlanta GA
Lines: 85
Keywords: MicroEMACS standout
Summary: yes, I'm very aware of MicroGnuEmacs

In article <3574@oberon.USC.EDU> blarson@castor.usc.edu (Bob Larson) writes:
>In article <384@rebel.UUCP> george@rebel.UUCP (George M. Sipe) writes:
>>...quotes my comments from the patch posting
>
>Are you unaware of MicroGnuEmacs (mg)?  mg 1b is available for ftp from
>jade.berkeley.edu in pub/mg/mg1b.tar.Z (compressed tar).  (mg 1a
>appered in mod.sources, and should be avaiable from archive sites.) Mg
>is a small, portable, emacs-like (no extention language) editor
>designed to act as much as practical like GNU Emacs, and has no direct
>association with the GNU project.

I am aware of it.  In fact, it has been up and running since it was
publicly available on the two Unix machines I use.  I even liked it.
However, when it became necessary for me to use PCs (of the IBM
variety) I was surprised to learn that it did not support them.
Undaunted, I began doing the port myself (using MSC 4.0).  It became
clear that a significant amount of work (or at least more than I was
interested in doing) would be required so I mailed an inquiry to each
author identified in the documentation to see if the port had already
been done.  It had not, although interest was expressed in having PC
support (at least in the only reply I received).

This caused me to look for an alternative.  What I found was
MicroEMACS.  Compared to MicroGnuEmacs, it runs on a wider variety of
systems including the PC (also including varied monitor support), HAS
more features INCLUDING an extension language (I don't consider the
lack of one a feature), IS actively supported, with bug fixes and new
features (with an emphasis on compile-time selection in order to allow
for extra small executables - although with everything included, it is
still small and fast).

>Mg was based on v30 rather than Laurence's 3.6 because we felt that a
>clean, mostly bug-free base was more important than the few additional
>features 3.6 offered.  (This was the consensus of the short-lived
>microemacs mailing list, the major decenting opinion was Dave Laurence.
>The original mg autors met via that list.)  Since then, mg and
>Laurence's microemacs have diverged.
>
>** Personal opinion, Asbestos suit on **
>From what I have seen about the number of patch versions of Dave
>Laurence's microemacs, he still needs better beta testing (does he
>have any?) on a wider variety of machines.  We did at least 4 beta
>distributions of mg before releasing either version. 
>** normal mode on **

Keep in mind that actively supported (read enhanced) software
frequently carries an on-going bug control effort as the price tag.
This is not unusual or unreasonable (refer to GNU Emacs, for example).
You should express your views here directly to Daniel M.  Lawrence.  I
just use the thing.  Perhaps you would be willing to be a beta site.

>If you are interested in doing development/support of mg, send a note
>to mg-support@ucbvax.berkeley.edu .  (Several people have expressed an
>interest in having a version for messydos, but so far nobody has
>volenteered to do the work.)

In my opinion (you are entitled to yours), MicroEMACS a better editor.
Furthermore, I hope to allow limited GNU compatibility via a compile
time option vs. yet another micro GNU Emacs.  I also think the code is
cleaner (again, your opinion may differ).  Therefore I have abandoned
MicroGnuEmacs and will direct all my energies at making MicroEMACS suit
my own tastes (and I'll bet many others' too).  My only complaint is
the lack of compatibility with GNU.  For me, it will be compatible
enough when the keyboard bindings are generally the same and the
function names are generally the same (important when you HAVE an
extension language).  I've already done 99% of this work (although have
yet to post it).  I don't demand a proper subset.

I think we both want the same thing:  a GNU Emacs subset editor for use
where the real thing is not possible or where frequent execution is
necessary.  If GNU Emacs could run on everything and start-up quickly,
all my problems would be solved.  A micro GNU emacs is a good
alternative for those situations.  My vote is for MicroEMACS - with my
GNU compatibility patches - because (in summary):  (1) it operates on
more hardware, particularly on the PC, (2) appears to be more widely
used, (3) has more features, and (4) has very active support.  Since my
patches will add a compile-time option and not change the current
functionality, Daniel has agreed (in principle) to include them in some
future release.  I think this is a big plus, in that future
enhancements to MicroEMACS will - by definition - be available in it's
GNU compatible version.
-- 
George M. Sipe,		Phone: (404) 662-1533
Tolerant Systems, 6961 Peachtree Industrial, Norcross, GA  30071
UUCP: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ihnp4,linus,rutgers,seismo}!gatech!rebel!george