Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!husc6!think!ames!ucbcad!ucbvax!FINGATE.BITNET!MAILER-DAEMON From: MAILER-DAEMON@FINGATE.BITNET (Mail Delivery Subsystem) Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st Subject: Returned mail: Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with op Message-ID: <8707150112.AA13755@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> Date: Tue, 14-Jul-87 21:30:20 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8707150112.AA13755 Posted: Tue Jul 14 21:30:20 1987 Date-Received: Fri, 17-Jul-87 01:36:24 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Distribution: world Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 480 ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 554 qfAA09511: line 6:... Unknown fudec host name ----- Unsent message follows ----- Received: by santra.UUCP (5.51/6.4.TeKoLa) id AA09511; Thu, 9 Jul 87 15:55:38 +0300 From: Message-Id: <8707091255.AA09511@santra.UUCP> Received: by fingate Thu Jul 9 15:55:33 from MAILER@FINHUTC.BITNET via rscs BSMTP. Received: by FINHUTC (Mailer X1.24) id 5164; Thu, 09 Jul 87 15:05:50 FIN Date: Wed 8 Jul 87 14:55:59 PDT Reply-To: Info-Atari16@Score.Stanford.edu Sender: "Atari ST users forum (INFO-ATARI16)" Original-From: Info-Atari16 Digest Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V87 #264 To: , Original-To: , Info-Atari16 Digest Wednesday, July 8, 1987 Volume 87 : Issue 264 This weeks Editor: Bill Westfield Today's Topics: Re: Mega-ST release date? Re: Re: Repost due to SCORE failure (LONG) .IMG file format question Why did my disk get trashed? Fast (Cartridge) BASIC by Computer Concepts Re: Mega-ST release date? GDOS extensions??? Re: Current Status of ST Emulation Packages Re: Prolog for the ST Re: Best C Compiler? Re: GDOS extensions??? %g in Mark Williams C - (nf) BMS controller and HD Boot Re: BIOS re-entrancy Re: BIOS re-entrancy ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 23 Jun 87 15:09:16 GMT From: trwrb!sansom@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Richard Sansom) Subject: Re: Mega-ST release date? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <762@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes: >The Mega ST release is imminent. We see no reason to wait on the laser >printers to get the Megas out the door. The SLM804 (laser printer) will be >ready well in advance of September. Neil, can you give us the name of some dealers who are going to be selling the Megas? I've not been able to find anyone who thinks they (the Megas) will be available before September - they can't even give me a price yet. I then tried to order one directly from Atari (can you say "retail prices"?) but it turns out that Atari won't sell me one directly. There have been no nasty remarks in this message - I'd really appreciate your help. -Rich -- /////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /// Richard E. Sansom TRW Electronics & Defense Sector \\\ \\\ {decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!trwrb!sansom Redondo Beach, CA /// ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Jun 87 16:06:12 GMT To: INFO-ATARI16@SCORE.STANFORD.EDU From: K538915%CZHRZU1A.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu Return-Receipt-To: K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET Subject: Re: Re: Repost due to SCORE failure (LONG) ihnp4!utzoo!lsuc!jimomura Jim Omura writes: >In article <8706162240.AA07496@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> IHLS400@INDYCMS.BITNET.UUC ... >>don't think it will be a major concern for Atari, since I don't think >>they will sell all that many of them without the blitter. (Gossip > I'm glad that they are going ahead with sales without the Blitter. >My opinion is exactly 180 degrees from most people. To me the Blitter >is the *least* important thing about the Mega ST's. The other improvements >are paramount and make the ST a "real computer". The biggest problem >was the lack of a real expansion buss. We have software capable of Even if the Blitter would have not been the most important thing about the Mega ST's, you can't denie that it would have helped the ST with something which is painfully slow (even if not so slow as on a 8086): screen I/O, a lot of applications could have profited from the facilites a Blitter would have offered. But what I think is far more important: a working Mega-ST production with Blitter would have given us some measure of the technical competence of Atari (not just in the design itself, but also in turning a design into a REAL product). As the situation presents itself, it would be foolhardy to expect TT's and EST's from a company that just manages to hack a battery backed-up clock into its original design. More so the Blitter farce even shows the amount of incompetence in the management of Atari, any self respecting company would have given the project up a long time ago instead of pouring more money into it. ... > The 40 folder limit could be cleaned up without a Blitter. As I >understand it, it will be. As I understand, it will NOT be. The only thing Atari has admitted, is that they have/are/will be working on a new version of GEMDOS for release some time in the future, as far as we know this could just be another proof for the amount of competence in HYPE that Atari has. BTW a more supicous person than I am, could suggest that Atari has been systematically avoiding the publishing of fixes: HD boot fix: been available Atari internally for a long time, but probably will never be distributed. HDB 2.3 is probably better anyway! 40 folder fix: FOLDRXXX was obviously procduced as a quick 'save our face' operation after GEMBOOT was made avaiable, with no intent on ever really distributing it (a nice touch was the way Atari leaked it out that they had a fix via Atari Germany, just to complain later it had been pirated!). > Interesting. I seem to be in complete disagreement with you, >except that we hope and wish that Atari will be responsive to customers >(which I feel they have been and are to the best of their ability and >thus seem in disagreement there) and I think we agree that Atari should >go ahead with the Mega without the Blitter for now. Yes, Allan and Landon do a good job of answering techincal questions, I'm sure THEY won't have trouble finding jobs, when Atari collapses. Simon Poole K538915@CZHRZU1A.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 24 JUN 87 08:32-N From: U00170%HASARA5.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu To: INFO-ATARI16 @ SCORE.STANFORD.EDU Subject: .IMG file format question Hello, Who knows what the code is in the .IMG files for use in 1st-word, or actualy wordplus. I need this information to complete my 1st-word to postscript conversion program, wich is now finished for the text part. If you are interested, send me a mail or take a look wether it is already preset on ATARINET (UH-INFO@UHUPVM1). Greetings, Berend F. de Vries, U00170@HASARA5.BITNET (EARN) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1987 12:27 EDT From: Holly Lee Stowe Subject: Why did my disk get trashed? To: I run a Citadel BBS off of my A: drive. Last night before I went to bed, I turned off the hard drive. This morning I needed something off the C: drive, so I took the BBS down and as it was coming down, I flipped the power switch on the hard drive. When the desktop came up, the directory for the A: drive was garbage, looking a lot like the C: directory after you run SHIP, then the system rebooted. I can't open the A: drive with that disk in without the system rebooting. 1) I still have a few ideas for trying to save the data on the disk, but would love to hear any ideas anyone else has. 2) Why did this happen? Why did flipping the power on the hard drive on trash my A: disk? I will try to respond to everyone. I sometimes have a hard time getting things through the gateways, so if you have sent me a reponse and have never received a reply, I apologize heartily. I have probably tried and been unsuccessful. Thank you for understanding. Holly Stowe Bitnet: IHLS400 at INDYCMS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "An idealist is one who, on noting that a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will make better soup." -- H.L. Mencken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 87 11:46:01 EDT From: ORD JL (PHYSICS) To: INFO-ATARI16@score.stanford.edu Subject: Fast (Cartridge) BASIC by Computer Concepts Some additional comments on Fast (Cartridge) BASIC (original comments in Info-Atari16 Digest Vol 87 Issue 196, review in May 87 Antic): 1. Fast BASIC will not operate properly with a RAM-disk installed. This is annoying but understandable: Fast BASIC addresses all of memory and allows up to 10 programs to be resident in memory simultaneously. To give Fast BASIC a fair test get rid of your RAM-disk or you will see bombs at every opportunity. 2. Fast BASIC allows you to dimension large arrays but it has a serious error in its memory allocation algorithm. Memory is allocated to arrays modulo 131072 bytes, so an array needing this number of bytes will have no memory reserved for it. The algorithm which locates array elements works properly, but other arrays and multi-symbol variables will over- write the array elements. We solve the problem of working with 360k arrays by dimensioning to just over 393216 bytes (which reserves no memory) and letting BASIC have the bottom 32k to store smaller arrays. We then have no trouble BLOADing and BSAVing 360k data blocks directly into the dimensioned array. (This isn't a pretty fix, but it works.) 3. Given Fast BASIC's problems is it worth using? - We certainly think so. Three of the four 1040ST's in the lab have Fast BASIC cartridges installed permanently, and the fourth would have if it were not for the process control interface installed in the cartridge slot. A 1040ST with Fast BASIC is a generation more advanced than the same computer with ST BASIC, so we would probably scrap the 1040ST in favor of a more advanced computer rather than go back to ST BASIC. ] Jack Ord, Physics Department University of Waterloo ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 87 15:13:22 GMT From: oyster@unix.macc.wisc.edu (Vicarious Oyster) Subject: Re: Mega-ST release date? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <762@atari.UUCP> neil@atari.UUCP (Neil Harris) writes: > >I don't know how these stories get out, I swear. ... >Sheesh! >-- >--->Neil Harris, Director of Marketing Communications, Atari Corporation Probably because some Marketing Communications Director isn't doing a very good job of communicating. :-) Seriously, though, what little info you gave skirted (or just plain left out) other relevant stuff, like presence or absence of blitters, etc. You know what happens to information vacuums-- they're quickly filled with all kinds of garbage. -- - Joel ({allegra,ihnp4,seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!oyster) Disclaimer: I disclaim disclamations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 87 18:17:36 EDT From: Mark L. Starner . To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Subject: GDOS extensions??? This may be an old question, but how does one get hold of the GDOS extensions for TOS? In the Compute Book: ATARI ST: VDI that say that without the GDOS extensions, you cannot specify new defaults for the (for example) opnvwks call. I have tried specifying enw defaults in the input array to the call, and they truly do not take effect. The attribute calls can change it. I am using Mark Williams C Version 2. Thanks Mark ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 87 21:54:13 GMT From: topaz.rutgers.edu!lachac@RUTGERS.EDU (Gerard Lachac) Subject: Re: Current Status of ST Emulation Packages To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <1502@batcomputer.tn.cornell.edu> braner@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu (braner) writes: >Question: will Atari convert the STs to a 1.4-Megabyte disk format compatible >with the new IBM PS/2 machines? > >- Moshe Braner I doubt it. If I'm not mistaken, aren't the drives on the PS/2 series using some kind of propriatory drive/controller combo that makes them ultra expensive?? (and also not compatible with the drives in the current ST's) -- "Truth is false and logic lost..." - Neil Peart (who at the time didn't realize he was talking about RU) lachac@topaz.rutgers.edu <--------OR--------> {seismo|ames}!rutgers!topaz!lacha ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jun 87 12:34:00 GMT From: cca!mirror!ishmael!inmet!dwyer@husc6.harvard.edu Subject: Re: Prolog for the ST To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Earlier this year a review of XPRO was posted to this notes group. After reading that review I called "Rational Visions" (the guy who wrote XPRO) to ask some questions. He was very willing to talk about his product, in fact we talked in some detail about it's implementation and his ideas for future products. I ordered the product, and received it within 2 weeks. It is a reasonable implementation of Prolog, with the usual built in predicates and a number of ST/GEM/TOS specific predicates. All in all a good deal for $34. matt dwyer uucp: {bellcore,harvard!wjh12!mirror,ihnp4}!inmet!dwyer internet: mirror!inmet!dwyer@CCA-UNIX.ARPA ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 87 16:45:42 GMT From: infotel!pollux!megamax!peter@ngp.utexas.edu (Peter Taliancich) Subject: Re: Best C Compiler? To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu In article <19345@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> morrison@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Scott Morrison) writes: >I just bought an ST, and I'm wondering which is the best C compiler for >the machine. I've noticed many people in this group seem to use the Mark >Williams C compiler. Is this considered the best? > Scott Morrison > morrison@Berkeley.EDU.ARPA That one is easy. Use Megamax C! -- peter@megamax uucp: {texsun,killer,infotel}!pollux!megamax!peter voice: (214) 987-4931 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 87 10:55:43 PDT From: Kevin Burnett To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Subject: Re: GDOS extensions??? In-Reply-To: <8706242217.AA05641@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> In article <8706242217.AA05641@burdvax.PRC.Unisys.COM> starner@burdvax writes: >This may be an old question, but how does one get hold of >the GDOS extensions for TOS? > >In the Compute Book: ATARI ST: VDI that say that without the GDOS >extensions, you cannot specify new defaults for the (for example) >opnvwks call. This is really beginning to irritate me. When the hell are we going to see GDOS for the ST?? This is something that should have been available from DAY 1. I was really ticked off when I couldn't do any of the neat stuff GDOS will supposedly do when I got my machine, after all the ST was billed as being able to do this stuff. And when am I going to see some decent technical documents? I can't afford $300 for the damned 'developer's kit'! "Atari ST Internals" contains some obnoxious errors, and from what I can tell the BIOS listing in the back is for a version of RAM TOS! That's a real help to me. I mean, come on, even (dare I say it) IBM is better about such things. -- Kevin Burnett Stanford Linear Accelerator Centre / Santa Clara Class of '88 Arpa: kevin@Lindy.Stanford.EDU Bitnet: KJBSF@SLACVM.BITNET Old-style UUCP: ...!decwrl!labrea!Lindy!kevin ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 87 12:12:00 GMT From: mcvax!unido!qtecmuc!ger@seismo.css.gov Subject: %g in Mark Williams C - (nf) To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu Hello everyone, I'm having a problem with Mark William C Version 1.0.4 on the Atari. When I use "%g" in format strings for printf, insignificant zeros are not truncated like K&R demand it. Example: printf("%g",1.25); gives me: 1.2500000 Question: Is this fixed in the new 2.0 Version ??? Or have the language specifications changed (new ANSI standard) ??? Gerhard Pehland UUCP: ...!seismo!unido!qtecmuc!ger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 87 07:58:55 MDT From: edstrom%UNCAEDU.BITNET@wiscvm.wisc.edu Subject: BMS controller and HD Boot To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu X-ST-Vmsmail-To: ST%"info-atari16@score.stanford.edu",EDSTROM Has anyone with a BMS HD controller tried booting from the HD? If so, how can it be done, if it can? EDSTROM@UNCAEDU.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 87 12:49:45 GMT From: imagen!atari!dyer@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Landon Dyer) Subject: Re: BIOS re-entrancy To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <955@eneevax.UUCP>, iarocci@eneevax.UUCP (John Iarocci) says: > Also, does anyone know if any conflics may arise if a process were preempted > in the middle of the BIOS, only to have another process make a BIOS call, > possibly the same one that was interrupted? The same question goes for the > XBIOS and GEMDOS. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer. The BIOS, XBIOS and GEMDOS are not re-entrant -- TOS is not a multitasking operating system. The functions below the trap handlers (which use temps in memory, twiddle bits in the hardware and so on) would have serious problems if they were called on multiple threads. -- -Landon Dyer, Atari Corporation {sun,amdcad,lll-lcc,imagen}!atari!dye The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those BUSINESS of Atari or the AI software that has taken over my brain. IS Yow! I am waiting for my warranty-expired interrupt! HELL ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 87 17:41:30 GMT From: imagen!atari!apratt@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Allan Pratt) Subject: Re: BIOS re-entrancy To: info-atari16@score.stanford.edu in article <955@eneevax.UUCP>, iarocci@eneevax.UUCP (John Iarocci) says: > I'm writing a multi-tasking kernel, and trying to find > a safe way ... > > | Bill Dorsey 'Imagination is more important than knowledge.' You sure are imagining... There are no safe ways to do *anything* with the current GEMDOS in terms of a multi-tasking kernel. If you want it, buy Beckmeyer or write your own OS. It can be done (we're considering it) but it ain't easy, and it is IMPOSSIBLE to force this on the current GEMDOS. How did Beckmeyer do it? He wrote his own OS. Sorry, kids. /----------------------------------------------\ | Opinions expressed above do not necessarily | -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp. | reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. | ...lll-lcc!atari!apratt \----------------------------------------------/ (APRATT on GEnie) ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ************************** -------