Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!columbia!rutgers!ucla-cs!zen!ucbvax!hplabs!well!ewhac From: ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Aegis Videoscape 3D Message-ID: <3627@well.UUCP> Date: Sat, 25-Jul-87 20:22:14 EDT Article-I.D.: well.3627 Posted: Sat Jul 25 20:22:14 1987 Date-Received: Sun, 26-Jul-87 04:54:43 EDT References: <344@io.UUCP> Reply-To: ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) Distribution: world Organization: Amiga. The Genesis of a Whole New Breed of Computers. Lines: 128 Keywords: Guru city In article <344@io.UUCP> carlos (Carlos Smith) writes about VideoScape 3D: For someone who wasn't terribly impressed with the product, I've been using it an AWFUL lot over the past 48 hours. I can only assume my review hasn't made it back east yet. I think I can respond to Carlos's difficulties. >Anyway, I wanted to run it through its paces before buying it. I examined the >manual, and then tried to load an object, its motion path, and the camera >motion, and then preview the animation. After 3 crashes when the camera motion >requester came up, we decided that the disk we were using must be bad (it was >stamped "Demo"). So we opened a fresh box and tried that. We loaded a simple >object and its motion path (paperairplane and flypaperairplane) that appeared >on the objects disk provided, and what appeared to be the corresponding camera >motions (viewpaperairplane). Then, begin animation, which, according to the >manual should preview the animation a frame at a time. [ ... ] This is an interesting little crock. In order to see those animations correctly, you have to load the "settings" file. Click on Load Settings at the bottom of the screen, and pick the paper airplane. Then run the animation. You should see a wireframe plane fly around for a few seconds (and when it's through, the whole schmeer gets FLUSHED!). Settings files contain all the information describing a full animated scene. >Needless to say, I didn't shell out the $200. [ ... ] $200? Yow! I thought it was $99.95. Good thing my boss loaned my his copy (no, I haven't copied it). >My own conclusion is that this package, like too many Amiga >programs, was never QA'ed by the publisher before shipping. Again, conceding >the possibility that we did something wrong, it shouldn't just CRASH all the >time. Quality software doesn't do that. [ ... ] Odd. I've had minimal crashes. >And again... It appears >to me that Aegis never had anyone without previous exposure to the program >try it fresh out of the box with the provided documentation only. > I did. I had very little trouble, though I was flabberghasted at how many shorcomings there were (see my review of a few days ago). Remember that, up until recently, only Allen Hastings ever used the program to any real extent. >So, I recommend that anyone interested in this package TRY before you BUY. > I concur. It's a very odd program, and is, in my estimation, For Hackers Only With Powerful Text Editors And Experience In 3D Graphics and Visualization. >Also provided is a >version of Rot that originally appeared on Fish disk 71. This seems to be the >only visual graphic interface provided. It is a VERY simple 3D editor, and it >is excellent for free on a Fish disk, but is not what you would expect as the >only graphic editor in a $200 3D animation program. > I agree. I tried using it once to define a screwy object. It won't take fractional coordinates, and appears to have a limit of 6 points per polygon. I don't touch it anymore; I write quick C programs to crank out unusual objects and connectivity lists. >First, I should temper this report by stating that >all of our attempts to use it were on one machine (A1000), with 2Meg expansion >memory (Starboard). It is POSSIBLE there is something wrong with the machine, > Based on your description, I would say that the hardware was flakey. I've had minimal crashes with both systems I've used it on (A1000's with 2Meg ASDG racks (stop snickering, Perry :-) )). -------- For those of you who are going to brave the storm and get VS3D, may I relate some of my experiences over the past two days? Good... EGG is the provided tool I use the most (at least for the object I've been trying to model). You must remember to specify the Y coordinate sequence from topmost to bottommost. Otherwise your object will appear inside-out. EGG-provided cylinders are very inefficient; it's better to ask for a surface of revolution, and cap the ends by hand with 'vi' (or EMACS, or ED, or EDLIN, or DiskEd, or whatever you like to use). OCT has also seen a lot of use from me. Something you should watch out for: If you apply a rotation to an object, all rotations seem to happen "at once", not in a sequence. That is, if you ask for both heading and pitch rotation, the pitch rotation will not happen after the heading rotation; it will happen "before" it. It's kinda goofy. Also, be careful of negative scaling. Oct doesn't check polygon consistency after the scale, so if you scale negatively, your final object may look inside-out. ROT got used for a total of about five minutes. The guy who wrote this should have his goldfish confiscated. The coordinate display string gadgets show a fractional coordinate (i.e. "0.0", "4.0", etc.). However, if you try to enter a fractional coordinate, ROT throws away the fractional part. I tried entering 0.5. ROT called it 0.0. "Fine, I'll edit the output file," I thought. I then tried defining a polygon with eight sides. ROT only took six, then silently ignored further attempts to add more sides. I gave up after that. You *NEED* two megs. At least. The way I've been working, I "run" VideoScape, and load EGG and OCT when I need them. I run out of Perry's Sooper Dooper VD0:, and keep progressive object files in it, updating to floppy when they're done. VS3D works nicely out of VD0:. I also keep my C compiler environment around (I boot with my Aztec development disk). This way, I can write quick C programs to generate coordinate and connectivity lists, which can then be tried out very quickly by using VS3D as a previewer. Interesting side note: Steven Levy (I think) has been showing off a new solid modeller from Byte-By-Byte called Sculpt-3D. I've watched it working up close. This is *orders of magnitude* better than ROT. And the Sculpt-3D file format will be documented, so you'll be able to write a program to move objects back and forth. Imagine: Sculpt-3D for modelling, VideoScape for animation (at least for the near term). This is what multi-tasking is for! As I said in my last message, be prepared to put in a LOT of work if you're going to do anything with VideoScape. I have. I hope I'm finished by SIGGRAPH.... _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape ihnp4!ptsfa -\ \_ -_ Bike shrunk by popular demand, dual ---> !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o But it's still the only way to fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor