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From: pete@octopus.UUCP (Pete Holzmann)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc
Subject: Re: Microsoft C 5.0 Upgrade (C bug fight)
Message-ID: <280@octopus.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 17-Jul-87 02:38:54 EDT
Article-I.D.: octopus.280
Posted: Fri Jul 17 02:38:54 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jul-87 11:44:12 EDT
References: <3611@watdcsu.UUCP> <614@nonvon.UUCP>
Reply-To: pete@octopus.UUCP (Pete Holzmann)
Organization: Octopus Enterprises, Cupertino, CA
Lines: 52
Summary: MicroSoft C BugFree??? HAH!

In article <614@nonvon.UUCP> apn@nonvon.UUCP (root) writes:
>>>Lets just hope there are less bugs in MSC 5.0 than TC 1.0!!!

>> Don't count on it!!!  (And I'd be surprised if Microsoft is as Quick to
>> admit to their bugs and issue patches for them as Borland has been!)

>MSC 3.0 has less bugs than the current version of TC!!!

I'd love to see you prove it! MicroSoft is never willing to ADMIT that there
are bugs in their products! All you get to do is wait for a new release, pay
your $150, and see if the old bugs are there still.

I attempted to move a major graphics package from Unix to the PC using
MSC 3.0. I came up with TWELVE bugs in the compiler, all in standard, portable
C code. Almost all involved floating point or structures. Some involved bad
code generation, some just blew the compiler out of the water. I could not
figure out a work-around for many of them.

MicroSoft would not listen unless I was willing to send them the entire
source code that had trouble-- a major and daunting task, since we aren't 
allowed to release the source under the terms of the license with which we
obtained it. In ANY case, the only solutions suggested were to either find
a work-around or wait for the next release.

We gave up at that point. As it turns out, the code compiles nicely under
MSC 4.0... but it's rather sad that MicroSoft charges $150 per year as a 
maintenance fee to obtain bug fixes in their compiler! (What- you hadn't
noticed that the compiler is upgraded once a year?!?) Make sure that you
include that in your cost estimate!

If Borland can shake up MicroSoft in a big way- I think that's great!
If Borland can provide us with a quality product, reasonable support (and
providing patches IS reasonable, especially since the users of a C compiler
are, presumably, programmers (**)), and if Borland can do all that for a
nice low price... then there really isn't much use for MS C at ALL!

(**) I admit that teachers of programming may have a problem. But fixing
the problem on one copy and duplicating it for everyone isn't THAT hard.
It is also a LOT easier than (1) Paying for N upgrades; (2) Not having any
fixes at all until the next release comes out; (3) Trying to find a work
around solution (and explaining to the students why they should do this
wierd thing now, but not in 'real life'); etc...

Enough flaming.... I got REAL upset back in MSC 3.0 days, and never had a
reason to yell on the net about it! This discussion gave me a reason :-(!


-- 
  OOO   __| ___      Peter Holzmann, Octopus Enterprises
 OOOOOOO___/ _______ USPS: 19611 La Mar Court, Cupertino, CA 95014
  OOOOO \___/        UUCP: {hplabs!hpdsd,pyramid}!octopus!pete
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