Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!uunet!seismo!ut-sally!utah-cs!utah-gr!stride!l5comp!scotty From: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga Subject: Re: Software Theft Deterrents Message-ID: <306@l5comp.UUCP> Date: Mon, 27-Jul-87 05:58:03 EDT Article-I.D.: l5comp.306 Posted: Mon Jul 27 05:58:03 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 29-Jul-87 04:12:00 EDT References: <207@cc5.bbn.com.BBN.COM> <3576@well.UUCP> <247@uwslh.UUCP> Reply-To: scotty@l5comp.UUCP (Scott Turner) Distribution: na Organization: L5 Computing, Edmonds, WA Lines: 73 Summary: Dongles are patented. In article <247@uwslh.UUCP> lishka@uwslh.UUCP (Christopher Lishka) writes: >copy-protection by patching some machine code with NOP's. Alas, there >is also another way. A couple of my friend's once reverse engineered >a dongle and managed to come up with their own dongles; all they then Dongles are patented. You can't legally reverse engineer something that is patented. The fact that dongles were protected under patents was/is one of the major benifits given for that scheme over some other form of user traps. As I understand it there are no "fair use" loop-holes in patents so the dongle people would have a pretty cut-n'-dry case against your friends. The above poster is a perfect example of what I said in my previous posting. I'm sure Mr. Lishka would stand up and make some sort of defense for his "pirate" friends who go around violating copyright and patent laws. I'm sure he's not going to pick up the phone and call ADAPSO or the FBI or the local police and report them. Does this make Mr. Lishka a "pirate"? Should we all celebrate if his computer get's zapped by Mr. Reed's program? These are hard questions, but I think it's about time we had less fluff and more concrete in this discussion. Some people are even calling for it. As with Mr. Reed and Mr. Samad. Those two want action, maybe they can bag some pirates by going after Mr. Lishka? Some people are probably sputtering and hissing and really working up a first class hate E-Mail etc to send me over this posting and the last. But I'll say it again, we have people howling for the hide of pirates and making them out as animals TO BE skinned. No one seems to realize that the people they want are not animals, they're people who have friends and families. It's all great to stand up on the soap box and yell "What's the phone # for ADAPSO! I'm going to turn these people in!", but who is going to be the first to turn in Mr. Lishka so that his statments that he's friends with pirates can be investigated and acted on? Hmmm? I'd LOVE to hear from Mr. Reed or Mr. Samad about this? How about it guys, you going to turn Mr. Lishka in? I really think it's time for this whole discussion to just end. The only real solution is EDUCATION. We need "Pirated software? Just say *NO*!" campaigns on TV and in computer magazines. Bumper stickers. Radio ads, Mrs. Reagan going to schools and telling kids "Just say *NO* to pirates!" This problem is just like the drug problem. The real problem is the demand for pirated software. Bag the pirates and more will just spring up, the new crop being more clever than the last. But there's one twist, and a real big one, alot of the "pirates" are going to be the bright stars in the software field of tomorrow. By throwing these people in jail we may be sawing our nose off to spite our face. Pirates are surely mis-guided people, but as everyone grasps for a solution just keep in mind that the real bad guys maybe your own parents, or the neighbor, or one of your co-workers. Just keep that in mind the next time you decide to go "bag a pirate". I mean what do you do when your mom tells you she uses a pirated Lotus 1-2-3? Take a page from Mr. Samad and call ADAPSO? "If your mommy is a pirate you've gotta turn her in!" Or erase every file on her hard disk ala Mr. Reed? Ignore it like Mr. Lishka? Do what I'd do, tell them that what they're doing is WRONG and explain to them why it's wrong. And I don't mean tell 'em it's against the damn law. Explain to them that if everyone did what they're doing then Lotus wouldn't make any money and people would be less likely to make quality software for them to use. The hard core pirates will lead a lonely life if no one calls for their wares. And the software companies would have less justification for giving us ALL the SHAFT by building user traps into their software products. Scott Turner -- UUCP-stick: stride!l5comp!scotty | If you want to injure my goldfish just make UUCP-auto: scotty@l5comp.UUCP | sure I don't run up a vet bill. GEnie: JST | "The bombs drop in 5 minutes" R. Reagan "Pirated software? Just say *NO*!" S. Turner