Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site utcsri.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcsri!clarke From: clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) Newsgroups: can.politics Subject: Re: Subsidized daycare Message-ID: <3793@utcsri.UUCP> Date: Mon, 15-Dec-86 10:21:09 EST Article-I.D.: utcsri.3793 Posted: Mon Dec 15 10:21:09 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 16-Dec-86 19:38:10 EST References: <1444@hcrvx1.UUCP> Reply-To: clarke@utcsri.UUCP (Jim Clarke) Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto Lines: 63 Summary: In reply to Chris Retterath and some others, whom I will be courteous enough (to readers and to those who pay the bills -- I don't mean to imply any disrespect to the posters) not to quote except in paraphrase: First of all, daycare *is* education. The first five years -- in fact, the first N years, for any small N -- are the most important learning years. We traditionally used mothers to provide this education, and we should try to keep that option open for those who want it, perhaps by paying mothers but more likely (since paying people to do women's work is a pretty radical idea) by providing tax breaks of some kind. But many mothers need to work, and many more want to. If it's just "want to", then I see nothing wrong with the present arrangement, namely a tax deduction for the partner with the smaller income; this is my situation, and though it's expensive as hell (let the Minister of Revenue look for daycare at $2000/year, the maximum deduction per child!) it's basically not unfair. But if a single mother needs to work, or if a couple needs two jobs to make ends meet, like the policeman and chambermaid mentioned in another posting, then I can't figure out why their children's daycare shouldn't be paid for just like my older child's school. Or my school, or yours. And if you'd rather have private daycares than public ones, we could argue about that. I suppose it's like private schools vs public ones, and should private schools be subsidized? -- but not quite the same, since children in daycare don't need the same kind of socialization school children do. (So if you want that argument, I'll just sit it out, thanks.) But you must *not* try to lower the training requirements for daycare teachers. Right now any licenced daycare centre, whether private or public, must have a certain ratio of qualified teachers to children. Some facts -- possibly misremembered, since it's a while since I got agitated about this -- to help you argue with me: Ontario daycare centres must be licenced if they take more than five children. "Qualified teachers" are those with a three-year ECE (early childhood education) degree, from for example a community college. Pay rates for qualified staff are low -- around $13K a few years ago, though it must be up now, to maybe $20K? Those low rates helped unionize a lot of daycares, I think. Some opinions: The qualifications are important; my two younger children go to the daycare centre at George Brown College, where ECE students are trained. It is easy to see the difference between a beginner and a third- or even second-year student. The staff requirements are minimal; we've used centres where there are few students around to help the staff -- as is normal at non-teaching centres -- and the staff work unbelievably hard. The pay is far from outrageous; would you want your children to spend their most important years with someone paid less than a graduate student? Is daycare less important than secretarial work? (Are secretaries overpaid?) And finally, opinion no. 0: Remember that we need good daycare not primarily for the freeloading present citizenry, but for the vulnerable future citizenry who actually spend their time in daycare. Those children will be in daycare somewhere; the consequences, if it's bad daycare, are not only unbearable to imagine if you know children, but serious political and economic trouble down the road. Sorry this is so long. It's lucky I didn't include anything! -- Jim Clarke -- Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Toronto, Canada M5S 1A4 (416) 978-4058 {allegra,cornell,decvax,linus,utzoo}!utcsri!clarke