Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!ima!johnl From: johnl@ima.UUCP Newsgroups: mod.compilers Subject: Re: Assembly language programming preferable to HLL ??? Message-ID: <291@ima.UUCP> Date: Thu, 11-Dec-86 17:55:33 EST Article-I.D.: ima.291 Posted: Thu Dec 11 17:55:33 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 16-Dec-86 00:15:39 EST Reply-To: decvax!wanginst!infinet!rhorn (Rob Horn) Organization: Infinet, Inc. North Andover, MA Lines: 39 Approved:Posted-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 86 17:55:33 est In-Reply-To: <281@ima.UUCP> Cc: I recently had this argument ( in specific the situation was comparing a high quality Fortran 77, an optimized C, and assembler) and received a very different rationale for the superiority of assembler. It was empirically argued that persons with sufficient skill to make the assembler code function also had the requisite skills to understand the problem and solve it properly. Persons skilled in High level languages usually did *NOT* (well proven by the code that I am presently repairing) have the background needed. The basic problem with HOL's is that the programmers did not understand the very strict and complex timing rules that must be followed to make a radar controller and signal conditioner work in a cost effective manner. Assembler programmers did understand timing rules. There was a subsidiary problem concerning a more generic awareness of the behaviour of hardware. There was also a secondary performance argument, but so far I have shown that optimized C is running within 80% of the assembler versions. This skill issue is the first substantive argument that I have ever seen in favor of assembler. It only applies to one class of application, but it may be valid. Is this observed correlation of skills accurate? Is it based on some causal relationship? -- Rob Horn UUCP: ...{decvax, seismo!harvard}!wanginst!infinet!rhorn Snail: Infinet, 40 High St., North Andover, MA [Your moderator finds this problem pretty spurious. Sure, there are problems with such strong real-time constraints that you have to program in machine language and count every cycle. For the other 99% of the problems, I've seen plenty of inept assembler programmers and skilled HOL programmers. The inept assembler programmers tended to waste a lot of time hand-optimizing code where the size and speed didn't make any difference, then program a bubble sort in the inner loop because the data structures for heapsort are too complicated to write in assembler. -John] -- Send compilers mail to ima!compilers or, in a pinch to Levine@YALE.EDU Plausible paths are { ihnp4 | decvax | cbosgd | harvard | yale | bbncca}!ima Please send responses to the originator of the message -- I cannot forward mail accidentally sent back to compilers. Meta-mail to ima!compilers-request