Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!lll-lcc!rutgers!ucla-cs!sdcrdcf!burdvax!bpa!cbmvax!daveh From: daveh@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie) Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm Subject: Re: Whaddaya do with the damned thing? Message-ID: <1227@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP> Date: Tue, 13-Jan-87 18:13:55 EST Article-I.D.: cbmvax.1227 Posted: Tue Jan 13 18:13:55 1987 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Jan-87 20:02:18 EST References: <310@rlgvax.UUCP> Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA Lines: 90 > Keywords: I'm bored... > > Well, I'm ashamed to admit it: I've been using a C64, a C128, > and an IBM PC clone for quite a while now, and I have lately > discovered my CBM equipment is gathering dust except when I get > a games jones. I use the PC almost exclusively now. ... > [mentions "great" IBM programs] > Where's all this great stuff for the 64/128? For these machines, > I've got a terrible C compiler, a terrible Pascal compiler, an > ok BASIC compiler, no great editors, no memory resident stuff > that doesn't require something to be plugged in somewhere, etc > etc ad nauseum. > I hate to admit it, but I almost am beginning to feel that the > 'Real PC' snobs have been right all along. My CBM machines are > nice 'toy' computers, but for any real computing, you need to > go with the big boys. Now, before I get into this, let me point out that I'm biased from two opposing points of view, (1) I worked on the design of the C128, and (2) I've got this Amiga with 8 megabytes of RAM on my desk that leads me to believe that PC clones are toys for little boys. But certainly any computer can be a toy with poor software, or a tool for the big boys with good software. > So to restore my faith in Commodore, and also to try and justify > my zillions of dollars invested, I'd like to pose a couple of > questions: > > 1) What do you (fellow CBM users) consider to be the best in CBM > software for ANYTHING other than gaming? Is there ANY software for > the 64 or 128 that you would consider great? I'm only familiar with C128 stuff, and my picks are: For word processing: PaperClip II from Batteries Included, or the new Pocket Writer 2 from Digital Solutions. The Digital Solutions program supports C128 expansion RAM as a RAM disk, multiple documents in memory, keyboard or menu driven commands (compatible with the new or old mouse or a joystick), and up to 50 lines of 80 column text (in interlaced mode). The PaperClip program has a few "desk accessory" type functions built into it, like a terminal emulator. Both programs incorporate integral spelling checkers, the Batteries Included one containing 80,000 words to start off with. For data base: SuperBase 128 from Progressive Peripherals. This program is extremely powerful, reportedly at least as powerful as DBase III on a PC. It has a very easy to use interface for simple tasks, and a complete programming language similar to BASIC available for tasks as complex as you like. If you don't need this power, both Digital Solutions and Batteries Included produce their own data base programs designed to integrate well with their other productivity oriented programs. Languages: C Power 128 from ProLine seems to be the best C compiler I've seen for the 128, far better than the Abacus version. The ProLine program automatically starts variable allocation in zero page memory, which is the "register" type for this compiler. I'm not sure what else they're doing, but in many cases code produced with the ProLine compiler beats PC based C compilers at memory intensive tasks (can't beat the PC at floppy based things, but that's our fault, not Proline's. I'd like to try it with the Xetec hard drive versus a standard PC hard drive, though, for disk I/O, I bet it'd be competative). I haven't used any other C128 languages, though for C64 applications PROMAL is one I've used extensively, and it produced code typically running 40%-60% the speed of the ProLine compiler. I have yet to find a good C128 mode Pascal compiler. CP/M: There's all kinds of stuff that runs in CP/M, if you aren't happy with what runs in C128 mode. That includes DBase II, WordStar, and many of the other programs for business that now run on a PC. Aztec also sells a C compiler for CP/M on a C128 that will produce code for CP/M, C128, or C64 operating modes. And Turbo Pascal from Borland runs under CP/M for you Pascal types, though it produces code only for CP/M mode. > 2) What do you use your CBM equipment for? Only word processing, financial management, BASIC programming, running the Nuclear Regulatory Commision, thermostat control,etc.? I use my C128 as a terminal, wordprocessor, and for income tax preparation these days. Until I bought my Amiga, I used it for program development in C and PROMAL. And I bought the Amiga because I was completely amazed by it and wanted to start writing code on it right away, not at all due to any lack of the C128's ability at the tasks I called it to. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Haynie {caip,ihnp4,allegra,seismo}!cbmvax!daveh "You can keep my things, they've come to take me home" -Peter Gabriel ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~