Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site utcsri.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcsri!hogg From: hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) Newsgroups: ont.general Subject: Re: Unfairness with Foreign Students Message-ID: <3854@utcsri.UUCP> Date: Wed, 31-Dec-86 10:31:59 EST Article-I.D.: utcsri.3854 Posted: Wed Dec 31 10:31:59 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 31-Dec-86 18:47:46 EST References: <8056@watdaisy.UUCP> <4129@watmath.UUCP> Reply-To: hogg@utcsri.UUCP (John Hogg) Distribution: ont Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto Lines: 53 Summary: In article <4129@watmath.UUCP> rbutterworth@watmath.UUCP writes: > >A typical foreign student will easily spend five or ten thousand >dollars of his own country's money a year while staying in Canada. >After four years he will leave the country with nothing but one >small piece of paper. > >So what am I missing? The problem is that the student is taking more than a piece of paper out of the country: he or she is taking knowledge. If his or her place was instead taken by a Canadian (the story goes), that knowledge would stay here to enrich the country. Or looking at it another way, the cost of teaching a student is vastly greater under out system than the tuition fees; they account for only about a fifth of the university expenses. (Note to quibblers: this number is probably old, and there is obviously great potential for creative accounting. But the argument holds.) This puts a large hole in the "profit" made from a foreign student. The remaining cash inflow isn't simply thrown at the people of this country; it is used to buy goods and services, and these cost money to produce themselves. Dropping down to an idiot-child ECO 100 approach, from the economic point of view, we should compare the profit made from selling these goods and services to the cost of providing the student with education at bargain-basement rates. I have not seen any analysis one way or the other to suggest that we win or lose on the deal. Of course, this also neglects the advantage of having people employed, even if it doesn't benefit the overall economic system. So am I against foreign students? Most emphatically not. First and foremost, they supply a different viewpoint to what can be a very closed academic community. (Insert your favourite "cultural mosaic" buzzphrases here.) Second, it's not a one-way street. We also send our students to other countries, where they often receive comparable breaks. Third, nations which can't afford decent universities probably deserve some form of foreign aid, and education is the most valuable aid we can give. In short, foreign students are a benefit to Canada. However, the accounting justification is badly flawed. And a strong case can be made for a system in which student visas and tuition are given (a) in exchange for similar privileges abroad, (b) as explicit foreign aid, (c) in appropriate numbers and selected directions to broaden the academic community, or (d) for LARGE quantities of cash. The problem, of course, is that the current policy is not based on any consideration of why we want foreign students, and is thus merely a fuzzy version of (d). -- John Hogg hogg@utcsri.uucp hogg@csri.toronto.cdn "I never understood when he was jesting. In my country, when you joke you say something and then you laugh very noisily, so everyone shares in the joke." ---Umberto Eco, _The Name of the Rose_