Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site gitpyr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gatech!gitpyr!gt3403b From: gt3403b@gitpyr.UUCP (Ray Chen) Newsgroups: net.audio Subject: Re: Linn/Naim seminar(results) Message-ID: <973@gitpyr.UUCP> Date: Sun, 3-Nov-85 16:43:45 EST Article-I.D.: gitpyr.973 Posted: Sun Nov 3 16:43:45 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 4-Nov-85 03:24:28 EST References: <187@myrias.UUCP> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Lines: 105 Keywords: snake oil, propoganda, brain-washing Summary: Don't believe a thing Linn said... Sheesh, I thought I'd heard propoganda before but this is absurd. Ok. Let's see what the Linn people said here: 1) Vinyl records (as opposed to tape/cd) provide the best possible reproduction of music. It then follows that the backbone of a good system lies in the record player. 2) The majority of a stereo budget should be spent on turntable/arm/cartridge. (The example given was spending $1600 on the combo and $400 on the speakers, amp and preamp.) Demos were done (demo-style -- no double-blind or single-blind testing) and the following were supposedly demonstrated: 1) The higher the tracking force the better. 2) The "superiority" of the Linn pre-amp (whatever the hell that means and superior to what we don't know). 3) The effects of an undriven speaker on sound. Specifically, the "fact" that an undriven speaker cone will respond to the air movements and distort the sound audibly. Boy, I have so many gripes with Linn now I don't even know where to start. From the top, then. Points 1 & 2 are the best examples of "proof by outrageous assertion" that I've seen in a *long* time. 1) I don't know *anybody* who will say flat-out that analog is better than digital. I know of lot of people (including myself) who will say that analog is better than digital AT THE MOMENT BECAUSE (and give a list of reasons). However, almost all of those people will agree that given time, digital will win. This is because the digital media is capable of reproducing music more accurately than the analog media given the distortion that is introduced when an analog signal is processed/amplified/reproduced. The advantages of digital are inherent properties of the way digital signals are stored. 2) This is just plain silly. A stereo system is as good as its weakest component. A $1600 turntable setup and a $1000 amp/preamp combo are going to sound like crap coming out of a pair of $100 el-cheapo speakers. Ditto for the $1600 table, $1000 speakers and the $100 receiver. The components of a stereo system form a signal processing path with each component in the signal path adding distortion and noise. Having n-1 perfect components does you very little good if the nth component is so bad that the distortion it generates dominates the signal coming out of the stereo. In general, I recommend the ratio 1:1:1.5 (table/arm/cartridge:preamp/ amp:speakers) as a good rule-of-thumb ratio. It should hold up pretty well up to the $2000 range. After that, though, you have to really watch what you're getting for the dollar. How much you put into a CD player or tape deck depends on your tastes. Now, to the demos. This is what really burns me. Linn takes a bunch of people into a room, tells them what they should here, makes them listen to something, and since what they should hear is so obviously and authoritatively true (after all the Linn rep said it was true and he knows what he's doing, right?), a lot of people will think they hear something no matter *what* actually went on. I'll leave tracking force to those better qualified to deal with it. The superiority of the Linn preamp, I won't even bother with. Superior to what??? The myth of the "undriven speaker" is something else though. Sure, an undriven speaker cone will move in reponse to the air and cause some sort of effect. However, did the Linn rep also tell you about the effects of open or closed doors in the listening room? Rugs? Open or closed curtains behind the speakers? Wandering cats? The empty beer can on your table? In other words, this is a myth that has been propogated by Linn and some high-end snob-shops. (It gives salesmen a great excuse for not A/B'ing speakers as the cones in the other speakers will distort the sound so badly that you won't be hearing what the speakers really sound like...) As a matter of fact, this topic was discussed at *length* (sigh) sometime last spring(?) in net.audio. You may want to ask if somebody archived it. (Hey, I know sites that archive net.FLAME...) In general, things are so fuzzy in audio, you shouldn't believe any absolute statements, especially by a manufacturer who has vested interest in making you believe what they want you to believe. (Does Linn make speakers?) Listen to them, try and figure out if there's something they said that might make sense, and try and test it independently by listening or measuring if you can get the equipment. Anyway, enough for now. Ray Chen gitpyr!chen UUCP: ...!{akgua,allegra,amd,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo,ut-ngp}!gatech!gitpyr!chen USnail: Georgia Insitute of Technology, Box 33403, Atlanta GA, 30332