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From: tp@ndm20
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: mod.computers.* vs. notes
Message-ID: <5000014@ndm20>
Date: Mon, 4-Nov-85 08:28:00 EST
Article-I.D.: ndm20.5000014
Posted: Mon Nov  4 08:28:00 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 08:14:04 EST
Lines: 127
Nf-ID: #N:ndm20:5000014:000:5416
Nf-From: ndm20!tp    Nov  4 07:28:00 1985


/* Written  4:23 pm  Oct 31, 1985 by gordon@sneaky in ndm20:net.news.notes */
/* ---------- "mod.computers.* vs. notes" ---------- */

It is true that news/notes software that limits names to 14 characters is 
obsolete.  It is NOT true that software that wants names to be UNIQUE IN THE 
FIRST 14 CHARACTERS is obsolete.  Unless something radical has been done
to notes since it was posted to net.sources (and my current version is a little
newer than that), the NEWEST version notes still insists that notesfile names 
be unique in the first 14 characters (unless you're running 4.2bsd, or its 
successors or clones).  

This insistence can be satisified by suitable use of the aliasing facility, 
but it requires cooperation of lots of sites to do it, and it's never been 
done before.  (net.religion.christian is NOT a counterexample.  It is unique 
in 14 characters from net.religion.jewish, etc.  It wasn't unique in 14 
characters from net.religion.ctl, but that wasn't a real newsgroup.)  Tacking 
the chopped off end of the full name back on has been done before, but this 
is different.  It requires cooperation on both sides of the link, and 
invention of a new naming convention for use only by the shortnames notes 
sites, one much different than "take the long name and chop it at 14
characters".

The recent renaming of fa.* groups to mod.* groups causes a problem that
notes can properly handle, if the notes sites will work together.  Notes
has aliasing facilities that can be used to resolve the naming problem.
The new version of notes has this, and even moderately old versions do.
Maybe even the really old versions do.

In order for this to work, someone needs to post what all the new names are,
preferably along with what the old name it is replacing was!

Definitions:  
	longnames site:  one running (reasonably recent) news or one 
	running 4.2bsd (or later) and notes, and thus can handle long names.

	shortnames site:  a site running notes and v7, sysIII, sysV,
	4.1bsd, or something else that can't handle long names.
	If you gate news into notes, and your os can't handle long
	names, you are a shortnames site, and you talk to a longnames
	site (news, even if it's just news on your own system).

	obsolete site:  one running a version of news that won't handle
	long names, or running notes without an aliasing facility.

I propose the following naming scheme be set up for shortnames notes sites
only, to avoid putting several groups in one big notesfile:

	mod.computers    ->  mod.comp		(does this exist?)
	mod.computers.*  ->  mod.comp.*
	mod.protocols    ->  mod.proto		(does this exist?)
	mod.protocols.*  ->  mod.proto.*

(Design considerations of this proposal:  don't change anything that isn't
ambiguous within the first 14 characters, even if the name isn't particularly 
clear because the last component gets chopped to one character.  Rename the 
main group to keep it the main group of the renamed subgroups.  mod.comp was
suggested by a couple of people on the net.)

I do not have a complete list of the new groups as created, so these
examples aren't going to be complete.  Does someone have a complete list?

If you are an obsolete site, UPGRADE!

If you are a longnames site, and talk only to other longnames sites, do nothing.
(This includes all you news sites, remember, so don't flame me yet).

If you are a shortnames site, and talk only to other shortnames sites, do
nothing, but be prepared for receiving new notesfiles with the new names if
anyone pays any attention to this proposal.

If you are a longnames site, and talk to shortname sites, insert in your
/usr/spool/notes/.utilities/net.aliases/ file (where site is each 
shortnames notes site):

mod.computers:mod.comp
mod.computers.vax:mod.comp.vax
mod.computers.sun:mod.comp.sun
mod.computers.laser-printers:mod.comp.laser
mod.protocols:mod.proto
mod.protocols.tcp-ip:mod.proto.tcp-ip
mod.protocols.kermit:mod.proto.kermit
... etc ...

(If you put something that goes over 14 characters on the right side, the
shortnames site will chop it, so you don't have to bother chopping
it yourself.)

If you are a shortnames site, and you talk to longnames sites, insert in your
/usr/spool/notes/.utilities/net.aliases/ file (where site is each 
longnames notes site)

mod.comp:mod.computers
mod.comp.vax:mod.computers.vax
mod.comp.sun:mod.computers.sun
mod.comp.laser:mod.computers.laser-printers
mod.proto:mod.protocols
mod.proto.tcp-:mod.protocols.tcp-ip
mod.proto.kerm:mod.protocols.kermit
... etc ...

You should already have lines in there for groups whose true names go over
14 characters, like 

net.announce.n:net.announce.newusers
net.unix-wizar:net.unix-wizards
net.religion.c:net.religion.christian
net.religion.j:net.religion.jewish
... etc ...

so that local submissions to those groups are sent back to the group they
came from on the longnames site.

Note that even some of my proposed new names run over 14 characters, but
they are all unique in the first 14.  Shortnames sites need to use the
chopped name for entries corresponding to the local notesfile name of the 
group. 

Also, if you are a shortnames site and gate notes to news or news to notes, 
insert the same lines in your /usr/spool/notes/.utilities/newsgroups file.


					Gordon Burditt
					...!convex!ctvax!trsvax!sneaky!gordon
					...!microsoft!trsvax!sneaky!gordon

/* End of text from ndm20:net.news.notes */