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From: svirsky@ttidcb.UUCP (William Svirsky)
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: Re: Re: Invisibility and scrolls
Message-ID: <521@ttidcb.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 4-Nov-85 14:02:26 EST
Article-I.D.: ttidcb.521
Posted: Mon Nov  4 14:02:26 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 5-Nov-85 21:47:04 EST
References: <892@plus5> <9300058@uiucdcs>
Reply-To: svirsky@ttidcb.UUCP (William Svirsky)
Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica
Lines: 63
Summary: 

In article <9300058@uiucdcs> ekblaw@uiucdcs.CS.UIUC.EDU writes:
>
>I disagree with Paul Guthrie.  Magic has been defined as undiscovered science.
>Therefore, saying that we shouldn't try to define it in scientific terms is
>absurd!
On the other hand, there is no reason why it has to be defined in scientific
terms and there is a good case against trying to define it so.  Who's to
say that we aren't in the same situation as a bunch of primitives seeing a
flashlight, butane lighter, or Polaroid camera, etc. for the first time.
They can't understand how it works, its magic.  Or maybe FRP games take
place in another universe where the laws of physics are different.  In any
case, as long as its not abused, it makes things much simpler if you don't
try to explain everything in terms of todays science.  BTW, in terms of
science, how does an invisible person see at all?  We see because light
impinges on the rods and cones in our eyes.  But if these rods and cones
are transparent to light, then they can't respond to light at all.  Thus
the invisible person is blind.  I've read a number of science fiction
stories based on this premise.  In one, the invisible person wore goggles
to enable them to see in the infra-red.  Another point - what about body
heat?  If a person is only transparent to visible light, then in the dark,
they would radiate like a beacon to any person/creature that can see in
the infra-red.  If the invisibility spell stops body heat also, where does
it go?  If it stays in the body, that person would quickly cook from their
own body heat!  Especially if they are exerting themselves.  I handled this
in one dungeon when I had a sword that made the user invisible by having
the sword soak up the heat and release it when it hit another person/
creature.  Thus there was damage for the hit and damage due to heat.

> Furthhermore (and I hate to bring this up.  This kind of talk finally
>disappeared from the net), saying that magic is undefinable and can do
>anything (therefore making it omnipotent) is blasphemy, and probably one
>of the reasons the religious people are so down on AD&D.  
>
I don't remember him saying anything about magic being omnipotent.

>I like peace.  If the way to make peace is to compromise, fine.  Define magic
>in scientific terms.  It makes most people happy.  Too, Paul, I think you have
>forgotten the theory behind AD&D.  It is a game which is a little looser than
>other games, allowing changes and interpretions by individuals.  Some people
>obviously interpret the game as they wish.  If that interpretation includes
>scientifically defining the magic that occurs, fine!

And if means just saying that magic is magic and lets not try to define it
to death, that should be fine too!

>Your vehement degrading
>that person's PERSONAL interpretation can be defined as egotism and bigotry.
>Those qualities have no business existing in FRPing, so I would suggest that
>you either change your ways or quit the game.  Quit the net, too, while you
>are at it.  I don't want to listen to pig-headed bigots and swell-headed
>egotists.
>
I thought you said you like peace and compromise.  Your vehement attack on
Paul's PERSONAL interpretation (to use your own words) doesn't seem to
support your position.

FRP stands for FANTASY Role Playing.  Anything is possible in fantasy, just
as it is in cartoons.  Live and let live.

Bill Svirsky
Citicorp/TTI
Santa Monica, CA