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From: tim@k.cs.cmu.edu (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: The Damager God: Another fool rushes in
Message-ID: <631@k.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: Sat, 2-Nov-85 14:50:09 EST
Article-I.D.: k.631
Posted: Sat Nov  2 14:50:09 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 5-Nov-85 08:09:14 EST
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"Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."  Mat. 5:22.

Here is a summary of Charley's message, with responses in parentheses.

The Book of Job explains it all.  Don't ask me how, it just does.  You can't
talk about this issue unless you've read the Book of Job.  That has all the
answers.  (Somehow, Charley neglected to give a summary of the argument, no
doubt just an innocent oversight on his part....  I've read Job and it seems
irrelevant to the issue of slaughtering innocent babies by divine order and
making disease bacteria.)

Mr Zimmerman's argument is built on pride.  (Meaningless personal attack,
used in lieu of rational argument.)  God is beyond our judgment. (I took
this argument apart specifically and precisely in "Even If I Did Believe",
which Wingate ignores because he is incapable of answering it.  It is so
much easier to hide your head in the sand and spout the same old
already-refuted arguments than to face the truth, isn't it, Charley?)

You can't judge God by the same standards as men.  Would you judge a man as
a dog?  (Another point I dealt with specifically and exactly in "Even If I
Did Believe", leading me to wonder again whether one should judge Wingate as
an ostrich.  Answer my refutations, don't just cover your eyes and hope
they'll go away.  Intellectual dishonesty of this type is revolting.  Grow
up, will you?)

The Buddha did not claim knowledge of the reasons for suffering.  (A lie,
apparently born of ignorance but still a lie because of the irresponsibility
of speaking from ignorance.  Ever hear of the Second Noble Truth, Charley?
"Suffering is caused by attachment."  It's the foundation of Buddhism....)

I have had mystical experiences of overwhelming goodness.  Therefore, there
is a God, and he is good.  (I've also had plenty of mystical experiences of
this nature, and I dispute your conclusions.  Mystical experience is just
that, not literal truth or any sort of proof.  It is conditioned by personal
factors and predisposition.  A Christian or a person raised almost entirely
as a Christian is no more going to experience an evil God than a Hindu is
going to have a vision of the Virgin Mary.  Unless treated with skepticism,
mystical experiences =always= produce dogmatic attachment to their subject;
and we have seen the extent of Charley's skepticism.)

Charley's was the weakest, most bombastic, and most refutable (pre-refuted,
in fact) message I have seen on net.religion in weeks.  C'mon, Charley, you
can do better than these damp, insubstantial breezes.  Can't you?

A veritable limpet wearing the stolen coat of a sage....
-=-
Tim Maroney, CMU Center for Art and Technology
Tim.Maroney@k.cs.cmu.edu	uucp: {seismo,decwrl,etc.}!k.cs.cmu.edu!tim
CompuServe:	74176,1360	Religion is a branch of psychology.