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From: schneider@2littl.DEC
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: I Can't Believe What I Just Read
Message-ID: <1166@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 30-Oct-85 17:33:22 EST
Article-I.D.: decwrl.1166
Posted: Wed Oct 30 17:33:22 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 2-Nov-85 06:36:22 EST
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[Oh geez!  I was away for a while, and in the meantime some Led Zeppelin
 fan (with a sense of humor) took his sword out against Doug Alan, and
 Rich Rosen (who forgot his sense of humor ... except for the Odd Couple
 quotes) started screaming bloody murder about Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin
 and narrow viewpoints.  I, on the other hand, would like to continue the
 DISCUSSION which started all this and in a way apologize for the
 mud-slinging it precipitated.  -DS]

[Doug - you have the habit here of leaving out lots of stuff which seems
 pretty important to the context.  I suggest you be more forgiving to
 those who don't make it their business to remember every previous written
 word on a subject.]

[To fill in context: Doug was wondering what he had done to make me think
 he wasn't a fan of the Beatles.]

ME>> A high percentage of the sentiments you have expressed in net.music,
>> especially the part about "hating Rock 'n Roll".
 
DOUG> I said that I didn't like "Rock 'n Roll", not that I didn't like "Rock".

You said "I hate rock 'n roll".  My assumption was that this includes
the Beatles, but excludes "art" rock.  But now you say "Rock" doesn't
mean rock 'n roll.  This inventing of semantics on the fly makes it
one tough term to nail down.

> But some people say that some of the music I like, like the VU, are Rock
> 'n Roll.  So maybe I should change that to say that I don't like
> mainstream Rock 'n Roll.  I don't think I can say that I don't like
> mainstream Rock (even though most of it is pretty awful), since The
> Beatles are now considered mainstream....

I think you have a contempt for music which  is too popular or (oh, how
shall I put it?) "pop" music.  Eh?  But of course it pays never to be
too adamant and leave room for exceptions, doesn't it?

[Doug has expressed a preference for music which is designed to be listened
 to in a dark room with headphones.]
 
ME (again)>> The Beatles are the ANTITHESIS of bands one would listen to in 
>>a dark room with headphones.  They were a R&R band and a SOCIAL phenomenon.
 
> Early Beatles, maybe.  Psychedelic period Beatles is *perfect* for that.

For you maybe, but that's not what the Beatles were into doing.  I also
have, of course, listened in solitude, but the fact remains they were in a
period of Social experimentation and were "turning on".
 
DOUG>>> The Beatles nearly single-handedly pulled the world out of Rock
>>> 'n Roll.  
 
>> Nothing could be further from the truth; the Beatles SHOWED the world
>> rock 'n roll.
 
> The Beatles didn't invent Rock and Roll -- they invented "Rock".  Rock
> and Roll existed long before The Beatles.

This neither addresses my point or makes much sense if you don't include
the definition you so recently bestowed on the term "Rock".  In my
vernacular, Rock is a shortening of the term Rock 'n Roll.  (Can
anybody just here Johnny Winter shouting that, and not think it the
perfect term?)
 
DOUG>>> The only reason "Sargent Pepper's" wasn't second or so on my list is
>>> because I've been listening to it since I was four....
 
>> This sounds like an important reason for ranking it high on your list.
>> It was definitely in my top five.
 
> Well, I took the question to mean "What are my current favorites?"  Not,
> "Which have had the biggest influence on me?"  In any case, it was in my
> top ten even though I haven't listened to it for a long time.
 
Fair enough.  Its  interesting that I probably haven't played it in a while
also, and when I do play Beatles these days its usually the White Album.
But when it came time to choose THE Beatles album there was no doubt it
was Sgt. Pepper's.

For the aforementioned Zeppelin fan:  Hey!  I chose Who's Next as #1, buddy.
LZ didn't make my top ten, although I gave LZ I due consideration.

For Rich Rosen: "I dig noise. I dig sound. I dig all music, bumps, screams.
But this has brought me down.  I haven't been this far down since 1957!"
 
		"And though the news was rather sad,
		 Well I just had to laugh..."

		Daniel Schneider
		{decvax}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-2littl!schneider