Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!umcp-cs!chris From: chris@umcp-cs.UUCP (Chris Torek) Newsgroups: net.books Subject: Re: Middle Earth (Tolkien) Questions Message-ID: <2152@umcp-cs.UUCP> Date: Fri, 8-Nov-85 01:09:34 EST Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.2152 Posted: Fri Nov 8 01:09:34 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 9-Nov-85 05:46:59 EST Distribution: net Organization: U of Maryland, Computer Science Dept., College Park, MD Lines: 104 >> Does anyone know the tales of the other six of the Seven Rings of Power? [me] > The Dwarves kept these quite secret, and it is only by chance that we > know what little we do about them. I shall ask about, but I am afraid > there is no more remembered of them than you already know. Well, I have not found much, but we do indeed know more than nothing about them. They were made by Celebrimbor of Eregion in the Second Age, under the tutelage of Sauron. (Incidentally, all of the Great Rings, except of course the One, were made by him.) All but the Three were found by Sauron in his attack on Eregion after the forging of the One. Alas for Celebrimbor: his heart held against the tortures of the Enemy, and he was cruelly put to death. Sauron seems to have taken the Seven back to Mordor at this time, and given them out somewhat later. This last is but speculation, however. I have another lead, and will report if I find anything else new. [gkloker@utai.UUCP (Geoff Loker)] > Although [Gimli] could not be controlled by the Nazgul or Sauron, Not so! Dwarves `ill endure the domination of others', meaning they are hard to control, not that they cannot be controlled; and the power in the One was very great. Remember also that control may be subtle, and evil may be worked in many ways. > Besides, how would the council get the Ring away from Frodo? He > wouldn't give it up willingly. I think you underestimate Frodo. At the council he was not yet much under the influence of the Ring. He had used it but little, and as they have amply demonstrated, Hobbits too `ill endure' such domination---not, I must admit, as much as Dwarves (in general). > "[The Elven-rings'] power was bound up with [the One Ring], to be > subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last." > - 'Of the Rings of Power & the Third Age' > > So the rings were destroyed when the Ring was. It is uncertain. The contents of Barad-Dur were essentially obliterated in the aftermath of the destruction of the One Ring, so you are in fact correct; but my guess is that the Seven, at least, remained material. > Sauron *held* the remaining rings of the Seven and ... *controlled* > the Nine. Controlled indeed, but they were also in Barad-dur at the time. Or so we believe. > the Seven were for the Dwarves who had proven relatively immune to > the rings and, so, probably wouldn't work on Men. They would have made Men invisible, but you may be correct about the other effects. As those were wholly Sauron's doing, we cannot say. > [if the Nazgul were not wearing the Nine] would they still have > been wraiths? Yes! They were permanently faded. [40651275@sdcc13.UUCP] > Dwarves, by their nature, are greedy and possesive. [sic] That is a very unkind way to put it! You should be glad you are hidden behind an account number, for my Dwarf friends are not at all happy about that. I think you should at least apologise. > As a cross reference, remember how Thorin stubbornly refused to give > up the Arkenstone, even though it would have prevented a major > portion of a feud and cause of war. The Arkenstone was rather a special case. Bilbo knew quite well that he had no right to take it, though his purpose was good. And as a counter-reference, consider Bilbo's mithril-coat. [warren@pluto.UUCP (Warren Burstein)] > I don't think the Nazgul-Lord's ring was destroyed, by the destruction of > the One. The quoted passage refers only to the power of the other rings. True enough. > One the other hand, his body vanished when he was killed, and perhaps > so did his ring. I doubt it. The Nine were tied to Sauron and the One, not to their wearers. > I think Sauron let them keep the rings or they would have been lacking in > power without them, and might have been driven insane if he had taken > them away. Possible, but unlikely. The Nine were so firmly tied to the Nazgul that I think they did not need to be worn. By the way, I do find it odd that the One Ring's power seems to have been related to the inverse square of its distance from Orodruin, while the others' powers were not. A peculiarity of its forging, perhaps. -- Lindor, alias Chris Torek, Univ of MD Comp Sci Dept (+1 301 454 4251) UUCP: seismo!umcp-cs!chris CSNet: chris@umcp-cs ARPA: chris@mimsy.umd.edu