Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!brl-tgr!matt From: matt@brl-tgr.ARPA (Matthew Rosenblatt ) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Something NEW... Message-ID: <2774@brl-tgr.ARPA> Date: Mon, 4-Nov-85 09:12:38 EST Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.2774 Posted: Mon Nov 4 09:12:38 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 5-Nov-85 21:35:26 EST References: <5986@cbscc.UUCP> <5@uscvax.UUCP> <6032@cbscc.UUCP> Organization: Ballistic Research Lab Lines: 37 >> How does Mr. Rosen know what the "underlying reason" behind English >> common law or Jewish religious law was? [MATT ROSENBLATT] > The same way you do. Only I don't base my opinions on other presumptions > that I hold to "get" things I like. Odd that YOU can assert your choice of > underlying reason, but I am subject to a bizarre line of questioning when I > state mine. [RICH ROSEN] I'm sorry I didn't quote any source. Since Mr. Rosen learned about the reasons behind English common law the same way I did, he probably remembers reading Bracton, Coke, Blackstone and Pollock & Maitland when he was studying Criminal Law back in law school. In Bracton's time, SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS BEFORE MY TIME, it was illegal to rape "matrons, nuns, widows, concubines and even prostitutes" -- hardly a law desiged to protect men's property rights in virgins! Moreover, after a rapist (like any other felon in Bracton's time) was put to death, his land and money were forfeited -- not to the woman's father, but to the woman herself -- hardly a vindication of any man's property rights. As far as the Jewish religious law goes, a good indication of the Divine intent behind the prohibition of rape comes from Deuteronomy 22:25-27: (25) But if the man find the damsel that is betrothed in the field, and the man take hold of her, and lie with her, then the man only that lay with her shall die. (26) But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death; for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter. (27) For he found her in the field; the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. Now, if "this matter" is "as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him," G-d is saying that rape is bad for the same reason that murder is bad. That sounds more like "rape is bad because it hurts people" than "rape is bad because it violates the property rights of women's 'owners' ". -- Matt Rosenblatt