Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ucsfcgl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!ucsfcgl!kscott From: kscott@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Kevin Scott%Kuntz) Newsgroups: net.physics,net.research,net.misc Subject: Re: Newman's Energy Machine (2) Message-ID: <697@ucsfcgl.UUCP> Date: Thu, 7-Nov-85 05:39:03 EST Article-I.D.: ucsfcgl.697 Posted: Thu Nov 7 05:39:03 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 05:45:15 EST References: <175@tulane.UUCP> <471@iham1.UUCP> <536@talcott.UUCP> <474@iham1.UUCP> <1037@oddjob.UUCP> Reply-To: kscott@ucsfcgl.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Organization: UCSF Computer Graphics Lab Lines: 45 Xref: watmath net.physics:3512 net.research:325 net.misc:8856 In article <474@iham1.UUCP> gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) writes: > Some of the rest mass of the (atomic) nucleus is stored as binding energy >to overcome the electrostatic or coulomb repulsion. But this reduces the rest > mass of the nucleus from its component parts, not increases it. I remain > confused... In article <1037@oddjob.UUCP> sra@oddjob.UUCP (Scott R. Anderson) writes: >If the nuclei are infinitely far apart, then there is no interaction between >them, and all that is measured is sum of their rest masses. When they are >brought (not too) close together to form the nucleus, there is an attractive >interaction between them. This is the same as saying that the potential >energy of the system has been *reduced*. Therefore, the total energy of >the nucleus (rest mass + potential energy) has been reduced. Because >of the equivalence of mass and energy, this total energy is the apparent >mass of the nucleus. The mass of the nucleus and electron does not change, interchange between the two of them, or any such thing. And an electron cannot exactly be brought too close to the nucleus. The physical ramifications of what happens if the two peices exist in the same space are beyond me, but the electron need not exactly be described as a particle, and as a wave can be thought of as being able to pass through the nucleus (and need not exist in nodes to pass through them either). The electron is described as a wave function around the nucleus which is a proportional to the square root of where the exact particle would exist if you were to force the electron into particle charachteristics by observing it. The electron can move further and closer to the nucleus, exchanging its potential energy for kinetic energy and vice versa. If the electron is excited, it is more likely to exist further away from the nucleus, moving into a higher energy level. As an electron moves to a nucleus from infinite separation, it will gain kinetic energy. If it is slowed down and trapped by the nucleus it will radiate energy, proportional to what it needs to step down to the kinetic energy for the new spot it inhabits, and it will continue to cycle around. My eloquence may not do this explanation justice, it is a slightly advanced topic. For a much better discussion from someone who is more eloquent than I and has written down everything in full (I do not have the time or inclination to type more) see J.P. Lowe's Quantum Chemistry or or any quantum physics or quantum chemistry book. I don't profess to be an absolute authority or be up to date, feel free to send me e-mail criticisms, with all the physicists out there I'll probably learn something. This might be best moved to net.physics if it starts to tie up net.misc. -- two to the power of five thousand against and falling ...