Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site gargoyle.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes From: carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Property,justice,freedom Message-ID: <241@gargoyle.UUCP> Date: Sun, 10-Nov-85 18:45:58 EST Article-I.D.: gargoyle.241 Posted: Sun Nov 10 18:45:58 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 11-Nov-85 21:15:32 EST References: <1099@mtuxo.UUCP> <238@gargoyle.UUCP> <239@gargoyle.UUCP> Reply-To: carnes@gargoyle.UUCP (Richard Carnes) Organization: U. of Chicago, Computer Science Dept. Lines: 34 Summary: Libertarian conception of "freedom" A party of libertarians en route to a tour of Hong Kong was shipwrecked on an uninhabited island. After a certain time had elapsed, they had each appropriated an area of land according to the principles of just appropriation on which they were all agreed. Each person had enough land to provide a subsistence, and the entire island was now under private ownership. Each person, as was her right, now built a fence around her property and guarded the borders with dogs, traps, etc. Now the people who had plots of land in the interior of the island found that they could not travel outside of their own tract of land without cutting deals with the owners of the contiguous areas. They were in effect imprisoned unless they could meet the price of the adjacent landowners. A few of them who were comparatively unproductive found that they were de facto prisoners, or that certain parts of the island were inaccessible to them. Now our libertarian friends, those champions of freedom, would say that no one has suffered any loss of freedom in the above scenario. Indeed they would say that they live in a paradise of freedom. But I suggest that this is far too narrow a conception of freedom: a prisoner is still a prisoner even if his jailer is susceptible to a bribe. After a while a ship came along, and those living along the coast went home, in their excitement forgetting to unlock the gates to their property and leaving those in the interior imprisoned. As they had every right to do. Here is a question for libertarians: Since libertarians believe that one may have just ownership of land, under what circumstances and by what means may one obtain ownership of all or part of the sea? The atmosphere? The sun (the star itself, not sunlight)? -- Richard Carnes, ihnp4!gargoyle!carnes