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From: kscott@ucsfcgl.UUCP (Kevin Scott%Kuntz)
Newsgroups: net.physics,net.research,net.misc
Subject: Re: Newman's Energy Machine (2)
Message-ID: <697@ucsfcgl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 7-Nov-85 05:39:03 EST
Article-I.D.: ucsfcgl.697
Posted: Thu Nov  7 05:39:03 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 05:45:15 EST
References: <175@tulane.UUCP> <471@iham1.UUCP> <536@talcott.UUCP> <474@iham1.UUCP> <1037@oddjob.UUCP>
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In article <474@iham1.UUCP> gjphw@iham1.UUCP (wyant) writes:
>   Some of the rest mass of the (atomic) nucleus is stored as binding energy
>to overcome the electrostatic or coulomb repulsion.  But this reduces the rest
> mass of the nucleus from its component parts, not increases it.  I remain
> confused...

In article <1037@oddjob.UUCP> sra@oddjob.UUCP (Scott R. Anderson) writes:
>If the nuclei are infinitely far apart, then there is no interaction between
>them, and all that is measured is sum of their rest masses.  When they are
>brought (not too) close together to form the nucleus, there is an attractive
>interaction between them.  This is the same as saying that the potential
>energy of the system has been *reduced*.  Therefore, the total energy of
>the nucleus (rest mass + potential energy) has been reduced.  Because
>of the equivalence of mass and energy, this total energy is the apparent
>mass of the nucleus.

  The mass of the nucleus and electron does not change, interchange between
the two of them, or any such thing.  And an electron cannot exactly be brought
too close to the nucleus. The physical ramifications of what happens if the two
peices exist in the same space are beyond me, but the electron need not
exactly be described as a particle, and as a wave can be thought of as
being able to pass through the nucleus (and need not exist in nodes to
pass through them either).  The electron is described as a wave function around
the nucleus which is a proportional to the  square root of where the exact 
particle would exist if you were to force the electron into particle 
charachteristics by observing it.  The electron
can move further and closer to the nucleus, exchanging its potential energy
for kinetic energy and vice versa.  If the electron is excited, it is more 
likely to exist further away from the nucleus, moving into a higher energy
level.  As an electron moves to a nucleus from infinite separation, it will
gain kinetic energy.  If it is slowed down and trapped by the nucleus it will
radiate energy, proportional to what it needs to step down to the kinetic 
energy for the new spot it inhabits, and it will continue to cycle around.

  My eloquence may not do this explanation justice, it is a slightly
advanced topic.  For a much better discussion from someone who is more
eloquent than I and has written down everything in full (I do not have the
time or inclination to type more) see J.P. Lowe's Quantum Chemistry or
or any quantum physics or quantum chemistry book.  I don't profess to
be an absolute authority or be up to date, feel free to send me
e-mail criticisms, with all the physicists out there I'll probably
learn something.  This might be best moved to net.physics if it starts to
tie up net.misc.
-- 
two to the power of five thousand against and falling ...