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From: wombat@ccvaxa.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.news.group
Subject: Re: Delete net.flame?
Message-ID: <3500017@ccvaxa>
Date: Sun, 3-Nov-85 23:49:00 EST
Article-I.D.: ccvaxa.3500017
Posted: Sun Nov  3 23:49:00 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 5-Nov-85 23:04:35 EST
References: <690@h-sc1.UUCP>
Lines: 56
Nf-ID: #R:h-sc1.UUCP:690:ccvaxa:3500017:000:3242
Nf-From: ccvaxa.UUCP!wombat    Nov  3 22:49:00 1985


(You don't read notes for a couple weeks, and look what happens...)

1. The person who posted the note about deleting net.flame was alice!jj.
Once upon a time, net.flame was a reasonable thing to read; when alice!jj
was rabbit!jj he used to read and contribute to the group, the volume wasn't
*too* high, and someone was always coming up with a new topic to flame
about. But after awhile the topics started repeating, and it wasn't much
longer before all you were seeing was new wordings of the same old arguments
you read six months ago. The last interesting thing I saw in net.flame was
Tim Maroney's e-mail dialogues with various officials at UNC. That was how
many years ago?

2. JJ has the right idea. I think net.flame's time has come and gone. (Add
my vote for its removal!) It and the other soapbox groups were useful as a
way of siphoning heated debates off from normal groups. But now they live on
as full-fledged groups, attracting new netters who come to believe pointless
flaming arguments are a good thing to send around the world and carry these
ideas into any other notesfile they discover. net.abortion and net.origins
should probably be added to the list. *However*, I don't think the argument
for throwing away those groups can be applied to the recreational/hobby
groups, for the simple reason that useful information is passed through
them, an argument that can't be used to save net.(flame,origins,abortion).

3. The death of net.bizarre is a Good Thing. I have no sympathy for a group
that degenerated into a slushpile as fast as net.bizarre did. I also have
none for anyone who doesn't read net.news.group.  If you didn't read far
enough into the netiquette article to find out about it, you shouldn't have
a vote anyway. If you "aren't allowed to read net.news.group" you should
work on your site adminstrator to get that policy changed. You could
probably get a lot of leverage from the net to support such a request.

4. Gene Spafford has done a lot of good work for this net, but I think it's
unfortunate that the day he happened to crack down on things it was
net.internat that got hit. The removal has been a lesson in proper newsgroup
creation to people who read net.news, net.news.group, and net.internat, but
unfortunately not to the rest of the net. It would have been more
instructive if copied to mod.announce, but probably would just have caused
people to not read mod.announce anymore. The other unfortunate part is that
it can be taken as yet another example of blind, self-centered Americanism
by those so inclined. A little more diplomacy here would have averted this
long, drawn-out debate (boy am I glad that net.{unix-wizards, sf-lovers,
aviation} come before net.news* in my sequencer list) and prevented this
international incident. The damage having already been done, I support the
Vegan's intent, but disagree with the method; the old group should have been
allowed to continue while discussion went on in net.news.group and in
net.internat.

5. I am not in any way connected with wilson_3 and do not wish to be
confused with him.

"When you are about to die, a wombat is better than no company at all."
				Roger Zelazny, *Doorways in the Sand*

						Wombat
					ihnp4!uiucdcs!ccvaxa!wombat