Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site tilt.FUN Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!tilt!kyrimis From: kyrimis@tilt.FUN (Kriton Kyrimis) Newsgroups: net.nlang.greek Subject: Apo Taki Mercouri Message-ID: <358@tilt.FUN> Date: Tue, 5-Nov-85 13:13:15 EST Article-I.D.: tilt.358 Posted: Tue Nov 5 13:13:15 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Nov-85 04:37:04 EST Reply-To: tm@laidbak.UUCP (Takis Mercouris &) Organization: Princeton University CS Dept Lines: 147 To parakatw arthro to dhmosieyw gia logariasmo tou Takh Mercourh. An thelete na antapanthsete, steilte mail sth dieythynsh ihnp4!laidbak!tm kai oxi sth dikh mou, h opoia tha einai (mallon) sto header. Kriton. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Geia xara, Av kai n syzntnsn sto net.nlang.greek exei anapsei, molis twra mporesa na parw ta mnnumata. Epeidn pros to parov dev exw prospelasn sto net, zntaw prokatabolika sygvwmn av ekfrasw apopseis pou exouv ndn eipwthei. Osov afora tov prosdiorismou swstou (patriwtikou) tropou skepsns stnv epilogn ergasias, eimai katngornmatika antithetos se kathe epembasn tou kratous stis proswpikes epiloges tou politn; epembasns katavagkastikns n psyxologikns. Teleia kai paula. Aytapodeikto. As thumnthoume oti stis perissoteres periptwseis o patriwtismos (blepe episns to triptyxo patris-thrnskeia-oikogeveia) eivai to prokalymma gia kryfes epidiwkseis, kai to kat' eksoznv meso prowthnsns avtidrastikwv stoxwv. H diatypwsn loipov tetoiwv apopsewv, gia meva, eivai oxi movo lathos, alla kai epikivdyvn. Sumfwvw apolyta me tnv apopsn tou Xristou Papadimitriou oti xreiazomaste perissotern ereyva stnv Ellada. Oxi giati arkei gia va bgalei tnv Ellada apo to telma tns ypavaptyksns, oso giati: (1) eivai mia elpida oti kapoies idees me oikovomiko ofelos gia tn xwra tha bgouv. (2) tha kratnsei sto topo tous pollous epistnmoves pou eivai avagkasmevoi va ksevnteytouv me kerdos se avthrwpivo dyvamiko, kai syvallagmatiko. Bebaia n apopsn tou Swkratn Demetriadn gia thespisn proteraiotntwn sta themata epevdysns se ereyva n se metafora texvologias dev eivai evtelws lathos. Symfwvw giati n mimnsn san meso anaptyksns texvologias eivai kathierwmevn praktikn. Poles kathysternmenes xwres pairvave apo mimnsn tns texnologias stnv anaptyksn domwn pou eyvoun tnv aytovomn paragwgn tns. To paradeigma tns Iapwvias eivai arketa diafwtistiko oso kai avamfisbntnto. Kai alloi akolouthouv tnv idia poreia, p.x. h Eurwpn. H Eurwpn prospathei na apoktnsei texvologia sta robotics xrnsimopoiwntas kseves patentes. Malista n Italia eixe tetoia epityxia poy eftase apo kalypsn 30% tns eswterikns tous agoras to 1975 se 140% to 1979. Gevikotera, n eurwph katafere na kseperasei tnv amerikn se plnthusmo, alla kai se pososta efarmogns robots. Bebaia, oi parapanw xwres kataferav va ekmetaleythouv tn metafora texvologias giati ndn eivai arketa prongmeves texvologika. Autn kathautn n avaptyksn tns ereyvas eivai eva dyskolotato problnma. Poios tha xrnmatadotnsei, poios tha anaptyksei kai poios tha katanalwsei tnv ereyva stnv Ellada? Oi perissoteres eyrwpaikes xwres stnrizontai stnv avaptyksn me kivitnrio moxlo kapoio kratika epnreazomevo forea. Alla stnv ellada me dedomevn tnv ypavaptyksn mas se olous tous tomeis - dnmosia kai idiwtikn dioiknsn, wxaderfismo - favtazomai to apotelesma. Synadelfoi, otav ekana strato stnv ellada 79-81, edwsa maxn va mou epitrepsouv va ekpaideytw sto H/Y, kai evw argotera nmouva o kalyteros ekei (no big deal) mou apagoreyav va to akoumpnsw afnvovtas daktylografous va to xeirizwntai - prospathnsav va me stamatnsouv va douleyw gia va MH XALASW TH PIATSA (kai oi stratiwtikoi, kai oi dnmosioi ypallnloi pou ergazontousan ekei.) Nomizw oti kaveis stn patrida dev exei kamia empistosyvn se kratikous foreis pou avaparagouv tnv idia skouriasmevh vootropia. Kai fysika, poios empisteyetai tnv efarmogn texvologias se eva kratos (lao) pou exei kavei to periballov tou (Atheva, Thesalovikn, ...) kolasn? O idiwtikos tomeas? kalosyvhthise se kratikn prostasia se eykola daveia, kai se "kratikopoinsn" twv xrewn. Fysika, dev mporei va pasxouv oloi oi foreis mias xwras kai ta meln va eivai teloia. Pasxoume pantou. H avaptyksn mas sa laos tha arxisei otav tha syveidotopoinsoume tnv ypavaptyksn mas kai tha doulepsoume SUNEIDHTA. Eva allo thema eivai to gramma tou Timou pavw stis prooptikes epistrofns sth patrida, k.l.p. Oi apopseis tou nomizw eivai gevika koives diapistwseis, omws n parakatw paragrafos snkwvei polln syzntnsn (upogramisn dikn mou): > Kai vevaia h tyexnologia prepei na erthei stin Ellada. An den tin fero > ego kai eseis, pios tha tin ferei? Omos, pragmatika xreiazomaste ----------------------------- > tin technologia? Skefthite na kanoume robotics stin ellada. 20% anergia ----------------- > h/kai ypoapasholisi tora, yia skefthite me robots :-). Ena allo > paradigma einai mihanografish. Oi xiliades dimosioi ipallhloi tha > apolithoun kai stin thesi tous ena IBM 370/145 (always IBM, exei kai > antiprosopeia stin Syggrou, kai service, kai 3278 terminals :-)) H apopsn aytn exei polles fores katarifthei istorika, ksekivwvtas apo tn prwtn biomnxavikn epavastasn. H lysn dev brisketai stnv aporripsn tns texvologias, alla stnv efarmogn tns texvologias me tropo pou va elaxistopoinsei ta problepomeva kaka. Kai av akoma dev efarmosoume kapoies texvologikes lyseis (ystera apo koivwviko-texviko-oikovomikn avalysn) dev mporoume va to dextoume sav dikaiologia gia va mnv prospathnsoume va avaptyksoume tn texvologia mas. To kostos apo mn texvologikn avaptyksn eivai terastio OIKOVOMIKA, ETHNIKA, kai POLITISTIKA. Kai gia va mn eimaste syvexeia arvntikoi, ti mporoume na kavoume? Sav ommada 150 epistnmovwv, me tnv idrysn tou syllogou opws protathnke sto net, mporoume va ekfrazoume tis apopseis mas me ligo perissotero baros kai va prospathoume va sumballoume stn diamorfwsn klimatos eyvo'i'kou gia texvologikns ekseliksn. San atoma mporoume va epistrepsoume stnv patrida kai va prosferoume oti mporoume sto klado pou douleyoume, n to ligwtero va kratoume epafn me Ellnvikous foreis kai va prosferoume tis ypnresies mas opote xreiazetai. As mn ksexvame oti yparxouv pavw apo 150 epistnmoves me metaptyxiakes spoudes stous H/Y pou ndn douleyouv stnv Ellada (me katagrafn tns EPY to 1983). kata tnv pleiopsnfia tous ekavav strato, ergazovtai me tous misthous tns Elladas, kai prosferouv kathnmeriva stnv opoiadnpote proodo pou givetai. Kai va mh ksexvame oti merikoi Ellnves epistnmoves tou ekswterikou me apeirws megalyteres asxolies sto ekswteriko apo to meso oro, afierwvouv snmavtiko meros tou xrovou tous stnv avaptyksn tns texvologias stnv Ellada. An oloi aytoi epizouv, tote kai emeis mporoume va epiznsoume. Eksallou zwvtas sto ekswteriko, xavoume tnv Ellnvikn pragmatikotnta kai dev dikaioumaste se ousiastikn kritikn tou Ellnvikou xwrou - movo diapistwseis. Oi maxes kerdizovtai apo mesa. Takns Merkourns !ihnp4!laidbak!tm -- Kriton (princeton!tilt!kyrimis) ------ "I don't make threats; but I *do* keep promises!" ------