Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC840302); site crin.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!mcvax!vmucnam!crin!tombre From: tombre@crin.UUCP (Karl Tombre) Newsgroups: net.followup Subject: Re: Il accuse... Message-ID: <132@crin.UUCP> Date: Mon, 28-Oct-85 09:20:34 EST Article-I.D.: crin.132 Posted: Mon Oct 28 09:20:34 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 1-Nov-85 00:33:41 EST References: <487@ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP> <34@unc.unc.UUCP> <417@stcvax.UUCP> <127@crin.UUCP> <2337@flame.warwick.UUCP> Organization: C.R.I.N Lines: 73 I got several flames after my entry about Greenpeace. Well, I admit I was perhaps not precise enough. I'll try better now. First, as to the fact that waters and soil in Mururoa are not dangerously contaminated, but rather less radioactive than many common places: I read this in one French newsmagazine, but unfortunately I don't remember if it was in "Le Point" (center-right) or "le Nouvel Observateur" (leftist - rather socialist). These facts were not based on some government assertion, but on a study conducted by several scientists. If I remember well, they gave as a reference the radioactivity of the French city of Lille, which was much higher. Well, perhaps it was not Lille, but at least one major French city... Then of course you are free to claim that this is only government propaganda, but please then let me keep my illusions that France is not like the Soviet Union, that the French press is not the Pravda; in addition, you cannot use to its full extents the facts found by the French media about the Rainbow Warrior affair and in the same time claim that these media are entirely government controlled... Now to the main argument. What I wanted to say is that there are at least two ways of fighting for something you think is right: you can speak out, let your ideas be known, that is fight on the intellectual level. In this case, there is no reason for those attacked to fight back with deeds. Of course, in many countries, you are detained and condemned for saying what you mean; that is fortunately not the case for our western countries (NO, it isn't... No argument will be started with those people who state that our countries are not better than say the Soviet Union, that it is all the same and so on... Open your eyes, please...). The second way of fighting for your ideas is with deeds, with acts. Here, I do not want to argue about who is right and who is wrong in the Greenpeace affair; but it is obvious that the Greenpeace organization is not only fighting with words: they wanted to enter prohibited areas, and in the past years they have done many things like blocking ports and so on. I don't say that their ideas are wrong, but it shouldn't come as a surprise to them and to the world when the other side fights back. As an example, the resistance fighters, during the last world war, went to war against the nazis; they were not wrong in doing this, of course, but nevertheless, they were not surprised when the nazis fought back... Well, they often fought back with disproportioned force, as can certainly be said of the French action too, but the fact remains that acts are encountered with acts... Finally, I want to give my own opinion about fighting for peace. I think that the fact that I mixed these personal views with the argument above in the previous entry made things a bit difficult to understand, or perhaps too easy to misunderstand. I think that if you want to make something positive for peace, the only way is to be a man of peace yourself, in your surroundings. I have often expressed that I find a bit ridiculous that people who got the Nobel prize for peace were not even able to live in peace with their own wife; I know at least of one of them who has divorced and remarried twice or thrice. Let me also mention the women in England who camped at an air base to fight for peace, but they stayed there for so long that some of the husbands divorced... Of course, you could say that you cannot do enough by just staying in your own small surroundings; I think you can, and that if you have got peace *inside* yourself, if you are able to live in peace with your family, your neighbours, your collegues at work, then and only then you are a man or a woman of peace. Ladies and gentlemen, these were my views. The argument about Greenpeace vs. France can be flamed, but I don't think you can flame somebody for his opinion, at least not in our countries. But I am open to exchange of views and disagreements; it is your right to disagree and to have another opinion, I won't flame you for that. Therefore, *flames* about the previous paragraph will be ignored, but open-minded discussion will be accepted without hesitation. -- --- Karl Tombre @ CRIN (Centre de Recherche en Informatique de Nancy) UUCP: ...!vmucnam!crin!tombre or ...!inria!crin!tombre COSAC: crin/tombre POST: Karl Tombre, CRIN, B.P. 239, 54506 VANDOEUVRE CEDEX, France I have found peace with God and with all humans.