Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihwpt.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!bellcore!petrus!sabre!zeta!epsilon!gamma!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!ihwpt!rsl From: rsl@ihwpt.UUCP Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: Consistency Again Message-ID: <542@ihwpt.UUCP> Date: Fri, 1-Nov-85 15:36:13 EST Article-I.D.: ihwpt.542 Posted: Fri Nov 1 15:36:13 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 3-Nov-85 13:58:48 EST Distribution: net Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 47 Todd, 11/1/85 Thanks for the continued stimulation. I have a few comments reguarding your (you and/or Laura) use of the concepts "truth", "facts", "appear", and "belief" (mostly addressed to your last paragraph in which you, once again, can not resist injecting the ole Kantian skepticism, as I see it). > But I am not clear about what Laura means by "facts", since these, > on the face of it, appear to be observer-independent Truths. If > that is the case, then the inconsistency is reintroduced after all. First, truth is a concept that only has meaning when applied to statements. "Observer-independent Truths" seems like a conceptually-muddled notion, since all statements (thus, all truths) are the products of human observers. Perhaps you really mean "observer-independent" reality, in which case, "Truth" is not an issue (reality exists, independent of statements about it or observations of it). On the other hand, a fact is a particular true statement about reality. (We call it a fact, only because it is true; if it is not true, it is not a fact). "Appearances" are always appearances OF SOME OBJECT(S) and not independent of the observed objects (appearances and objects are causally inseparable; mental experiences of "the presence of an object" without causal objects present are properly identified as hallucinations). Observer dependency properly applies only to interpretations of objects and their resultant appearances. Remaining issue (if you accept the above conceptualizations) include: "Do (or Can) particular individuals distinguish between their observations and their interpretations?" "Do they report these observations accurately and truthfully?" If accuracy and truthfulness are applied to both interpretations and reportings, the result is consistency. The absenc