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From: oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x268)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Re: Rape (The nature of reality)
Message-ID: <79@birtch.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 29-Oct-85 22:36:24 EST
Article-I.D.: birtch.79
Posted: Tue Oct 29 22:36:24 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 2-Nov-85 01:59:12 EST
References: <725@decwrl.UUCP> <1751@watdcsu.UUCP> <2016@reed.UUCP> <12505@rochester.UUCP>
Reply-To: oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x268)
Organization: Birtcher, Santa Ana, Ca.
Lines: 81
Summary: 

In article <12505@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes:
>> 
....
>> Although I am perfectly willing, myself, to trust *no men* at
>> all (in fact this is what I do) not to rape me, few women are
....
>> Ellen Eades
>> -- 
>Ellen,
>Not trusting ANY man not to rape you rings of paranoia, or you are just
>flattering yourself by thinking you are such an irresistable target that
>a good man could turn bad by just looking at you.  Your remarks are an
>abomination to decent men every where.  I hope you can contain outrageous
>remarks like this to your own mind and not subject two continents to such
>thinking.
>
>ray

Ray,
You are an outrageous, unbeleivable asshole! How dare you to make a statement 
like that?! *YOUR* remarks are outrageous! 

Have you ever been raped? Or have been sexually assulted? No? Maybe you should
have been, if *that* is the only way to get things through to you! Ellen has
more than just a RIGHT to feel threatened, she has GOOD REASONS! 

Your idiotic remark about Ellen "flattering hereself" : how do you explain
rapes of infants and old women? Not to say that when I'm 80 I will NOT find
a 79 year old woman attractive, but why would anyone want to rape an old woman
( or a small child)? Do little kids "flatter" themselves when they avoid 
accepting rides from strangers?

[Not that I beleive Ellen's position is entirely RATIONAL. I hope most men will
 agree with me that sex with un-willing  partner is NOT satisfying, be it rape,
 or lack of real desire to have sex, or a "sympathy fuck". May be I am weird
 about this (I am in other things :-)) but I *don't* enjoy sex with a woman
 who does not enjoy it as well. I'd have more fun mastrubating! I hope I am
 not alone in prefering *mutual* pleasure .]

More often than not rapes are committed NOT out of sexual need!
MOST rapes are exibitions of rage, frustration, sick need to dominate some one,
punishment, sadism, or some form of insanity. It is IRRELEVANT whether Ellen is 
a striking beauty or a double-bagger dog! Rapist would care little. 

Yes, dominating a beautiful woman might be appealing to some men. With or 
without her concent. That's the entire reason behind Playboy and the rest of 
porn -- to "posess" someone you can never have, be it even in picture form.
(Quite a few religions view image/shadow/reflection of a person as a part of
him/her) And yes, feminists and anti-porn activists, the CURRENT contents of
porn are demeaning and insulting to women! Women are being portrayed as sex 
slaves, eager to please men, or being treated like shit and loving it. That
crap breeds the "women are made to please" attitude.

[Hmm... Wasn't Ray Frank a GOOD Christian? Is not Christianity sexist and
 unfair to women both in the Bible and in practice? Is that where you get
 your attitudes, Ray?] 

It's not Ellen's fault that men use sex as threat or punishment. "Fuck you!"
is an insult. Why?! Don't people *enjoy* having sex? Is it not one of the most
powerful pleasures and one of the most intimate forms of communication? Why
should a promise of sex be a used in a negative connotation?

Maybe you should read some research papers on rape, or talk to someone who
has been raped, Ray. You could find that Ellen is not "flattering" herself,
she is just trying not to get hurt. Too many women do! ( 50%?)

And, Ray! Please next time keep your stupidity to yourself! Your attitudes are
>abomination to decent men every where.  I hope you can contain outrageous
>remarks like this to your own mind and not subject two continents to such
>thinking.

You say it so well! (%-/)


-- 
Disclamer: My employers go to church every Sunday, listen to Country music,
and donate money to GOP. I am just a deviant.
----------------------------------+ Don't bother, I'll find the door,
"Only through a violent revolution|                       Oleg Kiselev.
 can the existing order be pre-   |...!{trwrb|scgvaxd}!felix!birtch!oleg
 served..."-Perfect Student Union |...!{ihnp4|randvax}!ucla-cs!uclapic!oac6!oleg