Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!ucbvax!mcgeer From: mcgeer@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU (Rick McGeer) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Sometimes I (don't) agree with Don Black Message-ID: <10791@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Thu, 24-Oct-85 22:31:32 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.10791 Posted: Thu Oct 24 22:31:32 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 27-Oct-85 06:35:34 EST References: <774@x.UUCP> <244@3comvax.UUCP> <818@x.UUCP> Reply-To: mcgeer@ucbvax.UUCP (Rick McGeer) Distribution: net Organization: University of California at Berkeley Lines: 59 In article <818@x.UUCP> wjr@x.UUCP (STella Calvert) writes: >In article <244@3comvax.UUCP> michaelm@3comvax.UUCP (Michael McNeil) writes: >> However, the non-signatory >>states were under no compulsion to join the Union -- in fact they >>could not be compelled to since at the time they were independent >>states. All of the original holdout states eventually, over the >>next two years, did approve the Constitution and join the United >>States, with the State of Rhode Island being the final laggard. > >I'm sorry I phrased that so it seemed I was arguing that the other states were >drafted into the Union -- and sorrier still my sources on the disinformation >campaign used to bring the holdouts into line are buried in a storage locker. >But until then, OK -- states were not forced to join, they were propagandized. Is there any evidence whatever of such propagandizing? What specific falsehoods were told, and by whom? The benefits of joining the United States were fairly evident, and the Framers' goodwill relatively clear -- the structure of the Senate was a specific concession to the small states, who feared domination by the likes of Virginia and New York. > >>The states joined for a number of reasons, commercial, political, >>and social. Many people feared a future as small, Balkanized >>states. Americans had recently freed themselves from European >>domination, and many wondered if small independent states could >>continue to fend off the imperial powers. > >And many, including signers of the Declaration, feared King Washington as much >as the other George. This is a damned lie. Washington was offered the crown on a number of occasions in the 1780's, first in 1781 (when Congress, beginning a long and ignoble tradition, refused to pay the army) and again in 1785. Each time he refused, with vehemence -- on the first occasion personally forestalling a coup by his officers. Further, he and he alone pushed hard for a Constitution, at least in part because he feared that the remnants of the Continental Army would attempt to put him on the throne. And the only reason the Constitution was accepted at all was that Washington agreed to be the first President. Indeed, Flexner writes that the only aspect of the Constitution that appealed to people was that Washington would be the first President. Finally, Washington attempted to retire after his first term and did retire after his second, *against the wishes of practically every state government and the Congress* -- because he was afraid that he would die in office, be succeeded by Adams, and thus establish a monarchial tradition. In sum: Washington sought no public office, aside from that of a seat in the House of Burgesses, from 1760 on -- each office he took was thrust upon a reluctant Virginia planter. Two. Washington's holdings suffered grievously both during the Revolution and his Presidency; indeed, Washington's tenure in public affairs was a personal disaster. Three. Washinton twice refused the crown of America and retired from public life to ensure that a monarchial tradition never took hold in America. Four. It is very clear that the people of the early Republic would have preferred King Washington, given the option. It was only because of his genuine commitment to democracy that we enjoy it today. There are any number of biographies and histories which attest to this: I suggest you read them and learn our collective debt to the Father of America. -- Rick.