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From: orb@whuts.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Social Security vs Social Welfare
Message-ID: <361@whuts.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 5-Nov-85 15:51:50 EST
Article-I.D.: whuts.361
Posted: Tue Nov  5 15:51:50 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 7-Nov-85 21:36:07 EST
References: <756@whuxl.UUCP> <29200244@uiucdcs>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 74

> 
> >  Ronald Reagan has spent over $1 trillion on the military during his
> >  administration, far more than combined outlays for "social spending".
> >  For your information, Mr. Wheeler, "social spending" is usually not
> >  defined as money for the Weather Bureau, the Parks System,
> >  federal highways, etc. but money for various welfare programs.
> >				-- Tim Sevener (orb@whuts)
> 
> Tim makes this claim from time to time, and it doesn't seem to matter that
> I usually post statistics which show that it's utter nonsense.  I wish Tim
> would get a copy of the *US Statistical Abstract* and look this up for
> himself each time he gets the urge to post an article about the federal
> budget.
> 
> For the record, military spending does not exceed outlays for "social
> spending".  Data for the following table was obtained from the US
> Statistical Abstract, 1984, p.316; the numbers indicate acutal outlays in
> millions of dollars.
> 		                        1980    1983
> 				       -----   -----
> 		National Defense       135.9   214.8
> 		Vet.Benefits            21.2    24.4
> 		Total Military         157.1   239.2
> 		% of total outlays      27.2    29.7
> 
> 		Income Security        193.1   282.5
> 		Health                  55.2    82.4
> 		Education               30.8    26.7
> 		Total Social Spending  279.1   391.6
> 		% of total outlays      48.4    48.6
> 
> 1980 is of course the last full Carter year.  The figures for 1983 are
> estimates in the Abstract; other sources (Congressional Quarterly, Feb. 4,
> 1984, pp.206-7) indicate that the actual figures for the military are
> *lower*, and actual figures for social spending are *much higher*).
> The budgets of the weather bureau, parks system, federal highways, etc. do
> not appear anywhere in the table.
> Scott Renner

Scott you know very well that you are greatly confusing the issue by
including Social Security as part of "social spending".
When most Americans talk of "social spending" I do not think that
they consider Social Security as a part of that.  Most Americans
think of "social spending" as first off welfare (i.e. Aid to Families
with Dependent Children, Food Stamps), and then perhaps such things
as Medicare, Medicaid, and education.
Social Security is not even a part of the Federal budget as such but
technically is an independent trust fund to which people pay every year
for their retirement like any other pension fund.  Savings for
retirement or disability, whether forced by the government, by a
corporation, or any other organization, can hardly be considered
in the same class as welfare programs.  Welfare programs are deliberate
subsidies to those with lower incomes.  Pension funds, such as Social
Security, are established and maintained by workers' own contributions
and are as much a part of the remuneration for a job as the weekly
paycheck.  The money paid out is partially based upon the money
paid in and the amount of quarters worked.

By including the government sponsored Social Security pension fund
you can therefore create the impression that subsidies to the poor
are enormous and the largest part of the federal budget.
This is patently false and I hope you will cease making such
misleading comparisons.  Such a comparison would be like corporations
claiming that their "philanthropy" includes corporate pension funds
(which include much larger pensions for executives than ordinary
workers), so that they are practically giving away all their profits.
It is more accurate to either 
   1)totally exclude the Social Security Trust Fund 
    OR
   2)explicitly note it as a special category independent of
     "Income Security"- which lumps a worker paid pension fund
      with actual welfare subsidies to the poor
    thank you,
               tim sevener   whuxn!orb