Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site birtch.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!oliveb!felix!birtch!oleg From: oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x268) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Re: Rape (The nature of reality) Message-ID: <79@birtch.UUCP> Date: Tue, 29-Oct-85 22:36:24 EST Article-I.D.: birtch.79 Posted: Tue Oct 29 22:36:24 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 2-Nov-85 01:59:12 EST References: <725@decwrl.UUCP> <1751@watdcsu.UUCP> <2016@reed.UUCP> <12505@rochester.UUCP> Reply-To: oleg@birtch.UUCP (Oleg Kiselev x268) Organization: Birtcher, Santa Ana, Ca. Lines: 81 Summary: In article <12505@rochester.UUCP> ray@rochester.UUCP (Ray Frank) writes: >> .... >> Although I am perfectly willing, myself, to trust *no men* at >> all (in fact this is what I do) not to rape me, few women are .... >> Ellen Eades >> -- >Ellen, >Not trusting ANY man not to rape you rings of paranoia, or you are just >flattering yourself by thinking you are such an irresistable target that >a good man could turn bad by just looking at you. Your remarks are an >abomination to decent men every where. I hope you can contain outrageous >remarks like this to your own mind and not subject two continents to such >thinking. > >ray Ray, You are an outrageous, unbeleivable asshole! How dare you to make a statement like that?! *YOUR* remarks are outrageous! Have you ever been raped? Or have been sexually assulted? No? Maybe you should have been, if *that* is the only way to get things through to you! Ellen has more than just a RIGHT to feel threatened, she has GOOD REASONS! Your idiotic remark about Ellen "flattering hereself" : how do you explain rapes of infants and old women? Not to say that when I'm 80 I will NOT find a 79 year old woman attractive, but why would anyone want to rape an old woman ( or a small child)? Do little kids "flatter" themselves when they avoid accepting rides from strangers? [Not that I beleive Ellen's position is entirely RATIONAL. I hope most men will agree with me that sex with un-willing partner is NOT satisfying, be it rape, or lack of real desire to have sex, or a "sympathy fuck". May be I am weird about this (I am in other things :-)) but I *don't* enjoy sex with a woman who does not enjoy it as well. I'd have more fun mastrubating! I hope I am not alone in prefering *mutual* pleasure .] More often than not rapes are committed NOT out of sexual need! MOST rapes are exibitions of rage, frustration, sick need to dominate some one, punishment, sadism, or some form of insanity. It is IRRELEVANT whether Ellen is a striking beauty or a double-bagger dog! Rapist would care little. Yes, dominating a beautiful woman might be appealing to some men. With or without her concent. That's the entire reason behind Playboy and the rest of porn -- to "posess" someone you can never have, be it even in picture form. (Quite a few religions view image/shadow/reflection of a person as a part of him/her) And yes, feminists and anti-porn activists, the CURRENT contents of porn are demeaning and insulting to women! Women are being portrayed as sex slaves, eager to please men, or being treated like shit and loving it. That crap breeds the "women are made to please" attitude. [Hmm... Wasn't Ray Frank a GOOD Christian? Is not Christianity sexist and unfair to women both in the Bible and in practice? Is that where you get your attitudes, Ray?] It's not Ellen's fault that men use sex as threat or punishment. "Fuck you!" is an insult. Why?! Don't people *enjoy* having sex? Is it not one of the most powerful pleasures and one of the most intimate forms of communication? Why should a promise of sex be a used in a negative connotation? Maybe you should read some research papers on rape, or talk to someone who has been raped, Ray. You could find that Ellen is not "flattering" herself, she is just trying not to get hurt. Too many women do! ( 50%?) And, Ray! Please next time keep your stupidity to yourself! Your attitudes are >abomination to decent men every where. I hope you can contain outrageous >remarks like this to your own mind and not subject two continents to such >thinking. You say it so well! (%-/) -- Disclamer: My employers go to church every Sunday, listen to Country music, and donate money to GOP. I am just a deviant. ----------------------------------+ Don't bother, I'll find the door, "Only through a violent revolution| Oleg Kiselev. can the existing order be pre- |...!{trwrb|scgvaxd}!felix!birtch!oleg served..."-Perfect Student Union |...!{ihnp4|randvax}!ucla-cs!uclapic!oac6!oleg