Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!seismo!brl-tgr!tgr!RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA From: RCONN@SIMTEL20.ARPA (Rick Conn) Newsgroups: net.micro.cpm Subject: Re: Is CP/M Dead (or) Turbo buy fun Message-ID: <2548@brl-tgr.ARPA> Date: Tue, 29-Oct-85 00:33:16 EST Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.2548 Posted: Tue Oct 29 00:33:16 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 1-Nov-85 00:39:33 EST Sender: news@brl-tgr.ARPA Lines: 111 Hello, Bob, "Is CP/M Dead?" is a matter of perspective, as I see it. It also depends on what you mean by "Dead." I offer the following: Meaning of "Is CP/M Dead?" Answer to "Is CP/M Dead?" -------------------------- ------------------------- 1. Is anyone making commercial software No, CP/M is not dead; there packages for CP/M now? are many new commercial packages out there (1) 2. Are the majority of the users of all I don't know, but I think microcomputers running CP/M? 50/50 chance that IBM has not reached 2 Million users; but how many old CP/M users switched to IBM? 3. Are new users of microcomputers buying Yes, the new users are largely CP/M systems (counting derivatives)? buying IBM, so CP/M is dying (this refers to personal computer users) if not already dead 4. Are total sales of new microcomputers I don't know, but I am aware leaning toward CP/M (counting derivatives)? of many, many embedded micros (this refers to PCs and embedded computers) running CP/M et al 5. Is the flow of public domain CP/M software No, as is evidenced by the stopping? latest SIG/M releases I saw today, CP/M is still thriving 6. Where is the majority of the public domain No, CP/M is not dead; looking software? at the libraries, CP/M is first, IBM is second; but how do the "good/junk" ratios compare? -------------- (1) Some examples of new commercial packages for CP/M (or Z System): What Author Sold by ---- ------ ------- Z-MSG (Electronic Mail) Tim Gary Echelon ZAS (Z80/HD64180 Assembler) Patrick O'Connell Mitek DSD (Dynamic Screen Debugger) John Otken Soft Advances ZDM (Z80/HD64180 Debugger) Robert Doolittle Echelon ITOZ/ZTOI Assembly Code Translators Robert Doolittle Echelon ZRDOS (Z System BDOS Replacement) Dennis Wright Echelon REVAS (Disassembler) Al Hawley REVASCO DISCAT (Disk Catalog System) Richard Conn Echelon TERM III (Communications System) Richard Conn Echelon MIX C Compiler MIX Software ... MIX Editor MIX Software ... KAMAS (Outline Processor) KAMASOFT, Inc ... Write-Hand Man Poor Person Software ... REL/MAC (REL-to-source translator) MicroSmith Computer Tech ... HiSoft C HiSoft ... HiSoft Pascal HiSoft ... DateStamper Plu*Perfect Systems ... ConIX Operating System Computer Helper Industries, Inc ... RED Editor Edward K. Ream ... Z80ASM (Assembler) SLR Systems ... MEX Communications Program Ron Fowler NightOwl [I'm sure I left someone out - data is from the Echelon Newsletters and the latest issue of Dr Dobbs; also, "..." above means the same as the author; apologies to anyone I excluded] ------------ So, the above sums up my response to your question. If you look at the "new user" community, the answer is what you expected - Yes, CP/M is dead since the majority of new PC users are not buying it (my meaning 3 above). There are lots of applications, especially embedded applications, where a Z80 running CP/M is a marvelous, simple, and cheap solution (try embedding an IBM PC in a communications controller, if you see what I mean). In the other four categories, the issue is not at all clear. CP/M (and the Z System) is certainly alive as I see it. As for myself, I am running ZCPR3/ZRDOS and do not intend to switch at home. This combination meets my needs nicely. At work, I use TIPCs (IBM workalikes), and I have no complaints, but I don't do anything there that I can't do at home. I write code in assembly language and C at home, and exclusively in C at work (except on the VAX, where I write exclusively in Ada, and the VAX 11/785 makes a nice PC when working with Ada). My next hardware move is to upgrade to an S-100, 64180 board (one is out now). I plan to follow that with more software, particularly a multi-tasking ZCPR4 with a large TPA. After that, I will probably move to a good, very fast UNIX system (68020, 32032 class). Essentially, I plan to skip the IBM PC market entirely ... if I need a powerful processor, I'll go with one backed by a good operating system. For further discussions, see Jerry Pournelle's column in the November "Byte" and the "Of Interest" column by Alex Ragen in the November "Dr. Dobb's Journal." Quoted from Alex' column: "Electronic Business, a magazine devoted to the dollars and cents issues of the computer business, recently published a long article analyzing the microprocessor market. It carried the surprising message that 8-bit processors make up by far the lion's share of that market, with 16-bit processors trailing far behind. Moreover, most industry observers expect this situation to continue for many years. The reason is that the now inexpensive 8-bit processors and their peripherals are perfectly adequate for most applications. Where 16-bit processors hold sway is in the prestige conscious world of the personal computer, where only the latest fashion is marketable." Rick Conn Disclaimer: While affiliated with Echelon (and thereby Hitachi [makers of the 64180] and many others on the above list), this text expresses my personal opinions and is not intended to be an advertisement or the opinions of anyone else. -------