Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site dadla.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!tektronix!teklds!dadla!dcall From: dcall@dadla.UUCP (Dale Call) Newsgroups: net.micro.apple Subject: A Solution: 1200 baud vt52 or vt100 emulation (LONG) Message-ID: <489@dadla.UUCP> Date: Wed, 30-Oct-85 13:52:01 EST Article-I.D.: dadla.489 Posted: Wed Oct 30 13:52:01 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 31-Oct-85 10:13:18 EST Distribution: na Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR Lines: 259 Thanks to everyone who replied. After MANY hours of tinkering, I have finally found a solution! Hardware side: There was one MAJOR hardware problem: NO WHERE IN THE ACCESS II DOCUMENTATION DOES IT MENTION THAT YOU MUST ENABLE INTERUPTS ON YOUR APPLE SUPER SERIAL CARD! I view this as a consequence of Apple's idea of documentation. After enabling interrupts, my Apple no longer lost characters (real improvement!). Software Side: Using Apple Access II, I modified my vt52 termcap by adding delays to three commands: 200ms delay to the cm (cursor movement) command, 200ms to the sr (scroll reverse) command, and 10ms to the ce (clear to end of line sequence) command. It may be that 200ms is overkill on the delays, but I haven't had time to tinker with exactly how much delay is required. I still have a problem with vt100 emulation, but I'm sure this can be solved with a few delays added to that termcap. I set up the Access II terminal characteristics to use vt52 mode, 8 bits per character (not sure this makes a difference), no LF after a CR, and NO wraparound (makes a difference with vi), all other settings were left at defaults. Another solution that works (but not quite as well) was to use Ascii Express Pro in Soroc emulation mode (a slightly enhanced ADM-3A). Unfortunately AE Pro does not do reverse scrolling on the Apple screen (which Access II does). Once again, you must enable interrupts on your serial card. A real plus to AE Pro is its ability to work with a large variety of serial cards - Access II ONLY works with the Apple Super Serial Card (but thats Apple for you). AE Pro is also easier to use with respect to setting up auto-logon command files - Access II requires a separate text editor ("Just use Appleworks" they say @#%$!!!). However, Access II is certainly easier to use right out of the box - if everything is configured of course! AE Pro comes in DOS 3.3 and Prodos versions. AE Pro works with all Apple II machines. With the Apple IIe, max baud rate is 4800 (possibly a problem). If you really NEED vt100 emulation, the best solution is Softerm 2 from a company called Softronics. It is expensive ($195) but it includes an external keypad, GUARANTEES 100% vt100 emulation (30 day money back guarantee), and according to a response from someone at Tek, it WORKS! I haven't tried it, but that guarantee makes it tempting. The phone # is 901-683-6850. It appears to be available for all Apple II machines. Max baud rate is 9600 baud. Note that Apple Access II does NOT work with Apple II's or Apple II+'s. It also runs only under Prodos. It claims a max baud rate of 9600, not tested however. Thanks again! Dale Call work ph# 503-629-1118 tektronix!dadla!dcall ************************************************************ The following is a summary of the responses I received with fixes. Note that responses from ARPANET machines cannot be replied to from sites that are not part of ARPANET (i.e. most USENET sites) ************************************************************ From: decvax!ucbvax!sdcsvax!sdcc13!09876955 Date: Sun, 20 Oct 85 15:08:37 PDT Message-Id: <8510202208.AA22293@sdcc13.ARPA> Organization: U.C. San Diego, Terminal Illness Department. There are many fixes. I'm running 80 columns on an Apple ][ (CIRCA 1978) I'm using a program I wrote myself. It will soon be running on the Apple //e. It does a COMPLETE VT100 Emulation with ANSI line editing built in. I'm really strapped for time, grades come first. I will post an announcement to the net when I get the screen driver for the //e running. P.S. In the regular "BBS" dumb terminal mode, It DOESN'T DROP A SINGLE CHARATER. - Jim Hayes UC San Diego EE/CS Department - UUCP: {decvax,ihnp4,hplabs,scrdcf}!sdcsvax!sdcc13!33500911 ^^^^^^^^<- A MUST! BELL: (619) 450-9316 WM (Word of mouth network): Hey Jim! Snail: P.O. Box 7378 La Jolla CA 92037 ************************************************************ From: uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!houxm!houxf!dma Date: Mon, 21 Oct 85 09:00:09 edt Message-Id: <8510211300.AA12746@vax135.UUCP> Dale, I am using Softerm 2 with a //e and the 128K 80 column card to send this reply. The software is emulating an HP 2622A, it is running on a 9600 baud link (it actually seems to be running at about half that rate). No bits are dropped, everything works fine. I'd suggest you look at Softerm 2. Doug Anderson AT&T Bell Laboratories houxf!dma ************************************************************ From: uw-beaver!cornell!vax135!mgnetp!mgwess!gek Date: Tue, 22 Oct 85 08:11:39 edt Message-Id: <8510221211.AA04274@vax135.UUCP> I am using Access II with a //e, Super Serial Card at 1200 baud. I have never had any problem with losing characters. VI doesn't work as well as I would like but I am not having the same problem as you. Sorry I can't help you any more. Jerry Krantz ************************************************************ From: decvax!ucbvax!ucbzooey.Berkeley.EDU!c160-3ay Date: Mon, 21 Oct 85 00:16:36 PDT Message-Id: <8510210716.AA29459@ucbzooey.ARPA> Organization: University of California, Berkeley I use Ascii Express on my apple II+ with an ordinary 80 col. card. I was experiencing a similar problem: whenever vi cleared the screen, I would lose the next 20 characters. Instead of trying to change my hardware, I finally figured out how to change the TERMCAP to fix the problem. Look in the documentation for TERMCAP for how to insert delays after clear-screen, return, and line-feed. This will slow down your throughput a bit, but it's worth it to fix the problems without throwing away your //e 80 column card. Actually, the command to insert a return/linefeed delay is in tset. This means that ALL cr/lf sent by unix, not just those programs that use TERMCAP, will have a delay. This is probably what you want. Look in the tset, or maybe it's stty, docs. Yes, maybe stty. (sorry I'm not absolutely sure about anything!) To do the clear screen delay, you will need to modify your termcap by inserting the number of milliseconds of delay you need before the screen clear character sequence (the sequence :cl=^L: should become :cl=300^L:) - I used 300 which seemed to be about the minimum. Modifying the termcap is more complex than you might expect. You need to first copy the termcap info for vt52 or vt100 into a file (using, for example, printenv TERMCAP > tcfile ... or grep vt52 tcfile) Once you have that file, set the environment variable TERMCAP to point to that file: for example, setenv TERMCAP ~/tcfile. You can modify the file tcfile to include the screen clear delay. I hope this somewhat twisted advice helps! Good luck... Oh, a possible hardware solution: get a modem or serial card that supports interrupts. I can give you information on how to modify your card for interrupts, if it's one of the ones in the Ascii Express manual. Oh, Ascii Express is the only software that supports interrupts, as far as I know. .......ranjit bhatnagar ************************************************************ From: decvax!ittatc!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix469 Date: Mon, 21 Oct 85 19:28:59 PDT Message-Id: <8510220228.AA14438@sdcc6.ARPA> Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center Am currently writing this letter, via my Apple //e, at 1200 baud, with Apple Access II, with no problems. Try using an 'ansi' tset. Apple Access does not do an exact VT100, it implements the ANSI terminal commands, of which the VT100 set is a superset. What can I say? It works for me. ================== David L. Smith UC Sandy Eggo {ucbvax, ihnp4}!sdcsvax!sdcc6!ix469 ************************************************************ From: ihnp4!dicomed!meccts!ahby Date: Sat, 26 Oct 85 14:45:01 cdt Message-Id: <8510261945.AA26251@dicomed.UUCP> Organization: MECC Technical Services, St.Paul, MN In article <475@dadla.UUCP> you write: (deleted for brevity by Dale) Dale, you can use your super serial card at 1200 baud quite effectively using Ascii Express. All you have to do is turn ON switch 6 of block 2. This will enable interrupts. Ascii Express will recognise this, and no longer lose any characters. Also, Ascii Express will work fine in 80 column mode in this configuration with the regular APple 80 column card in your //e. I am not familiar with Apple Access II, but I don't think it can use interrupts - at least if its anything like Apple Access III. Anyway, I hope this helps! -- Shane P. McCarron Minnesota Educational Computing Corporation - Technical Services UUCP ihnp4!dicomed!meccts!ahby ************************************************************ From: tekred!mikec Date: Tuesday, 22 Oct 85 16:30:07 PDT On the Apple //e, the 80 column card supports interrupts, and does not lose any characters at higher baud rates. I am currently using ASCII Pro on a //e, emulating a Soroc 120, running at 4800 baud. However, I have on order Softerm2, which will emulate a vt100 and other (hopefully more capable) terminals. ..mac ************************************************************ From: tekred!mikec To: tektronix!dadla!dcall Date: Monday, 28 Oct 85 11:48:53 PST Sorry for the delay in replying, just got my Softerm up and running today, did not want to respond prematurely. Got this from my local dealer, who had to order directly from Softronics. Softronics 3639 New Getwell, Suite 10 Memphis, TN 38118 901/683-6850 Am emulating a VT100, can go up to 9600 baud. It really is as good as I expected. Reads and writes CP/M, DOS, and Pascal files, too. Be sure to get Softerm2, 128K Apple //e version. There is apparently a 64K version that does not do as much. ..mac ************************************************************ From: decvax!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!unm-la!unmvax!nmtvax!kenyon Date: Sat, 26 Oct 85 22:50:08 mdt Message-Id: <8510270450.AA04654@nmtvax> Organization: New Mexico Tech (You call that an Organization?) My housemate's //e runs as a vt52 fine under ascii express. All you need to do is make sure that you tell AE that you are using a //e. If you let AE figure it out, the apples scrolling routines will be used. As far as I know versions <= 4.20 have this feature. Rob Kenyon ...ucbvax!unmvax!nmtvax!kenyon ****** END OF SUMMARY ******