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From: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Re: Logic, fact, preference [Part 1]
Message-ID: <737@mmintl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 25-Oct-85 18:43:35 EST
Article-I.D.: mmintl.737
Posted: Fri Oct 25 18:43:35 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 31-Oct-85 04:07:05 EST
References: <306@umich.UUCP> <28200185@inmet.UUCP>
Reply-To: franka@mmintl.UUCP (Frank Adams)
Organization: Multimate International, E. Hartford, CT
Lines: 63


[Not food]

This was a rather long article, but I am only going to respond to one bit
of it here.  This should not be interpreted as meaning I agree with the
rest of it.

In article <28200185@inmet.UUCP> nrh@inmet.UUCP writes:
>Now let's talk buzz-saws.  You see, the power of a state to coerce more
>nearly resembles a buzz-saw than a screwdriver.  Why?  Because the element
>of danger is largely absent with a screwdriver, but the buzz-saw fairly reeks
>of it.  I suggest to you that it a preference NOT to use a buzz-saw if it
>can be sanely avoided is a Good Thing.  Why?  Because there is DANGER here.
>Because the buzz-saw is (in use) capable of VERY dangerous things.
>
>Now let us say that we understand the principles of operation of buzz-saws
>as little as we understand the operation of history and of politics.
>
>Perhaps you see my point already, but to make it clear, you would be a fool
>to use a buzz-saw without understanding (for example) which end is dangerous,
>what it would do if you were to push THAT button, or if the buzz-saw YOU
>were using was invisible, so that you couldn't tell how long it was.
>
>My own feeling is that we understand the state very little, and while
>great things could be accomplished (perhaps) if we understood it well, 
>WE DO NOT!  So we are fools, less than children, playing with buzz-saws.
>We understand that a force is available to us, but not how strong it is,
>how to turn it off, whether it can be safely used to cut (say) steel 
>girders, concrete, wood, or vials of nitro.  We do understand enough
>about it to know how (relatively, sometimes) how intense the force
>is, and we know (in limited ways) how to turn it off.
>
>The interesting thing is that the buzz-saw could make our lives better in 
>theory, were we to understand its nature, so we have people who would have
>us cut anything with it.  We also have people, like me, who say:
>"For goodness sake! Until you know what's going on, don't play with it!
>Sure, you managed to cut down that tree in ten minutes by blindly swinging
>it around, but you don't know if the same thing will happen if try to do the
>same things, and you don't know what will happen when you put it down.
>Turn it off and leave it alone".

This argument would be much stronger if the analogy were more exact.
First of all, we do NOT know, even in limited ways, how to turn off
government.  If a government even becomes weak, other coercive structures
spring up to take its place.  Look at the Mafia, for example, both in the
U.S. and in Italy.  Trying to "turn off" the coercive powers of the state
is NOT SAFE AT ALL, because the ALMOST CERTAIN result is the substitution
of a bad government for our present, good, government.  (Bad and good are
relative terms.)

Secondly, I believe the net benefit from, to be specific, the U.S. government,
is large.  I submitted an article arguing that point recently; since I
have seen no response to it, unless I hear otherwise, I will assume it was
lost and try to reconstruct it.  (Our news service has been flakey lately.)
I think a more accurate analogy would be a group of cave men sitting around
a fire on a cold night, proposing to put out the fire and freeze to death,
because the fire is dangerous.

Frank Adams                           ihpn4!philabs!pwa-b!mmintl!franka
Multimate International    52 Oakland Ave North    E. Hartford, CT 06108

P.S. If this makes it out to the net, could someone send me mail to that
effect?  Thanks in advance.