Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site rti-sel.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!mcnc!rti-sel!jb From: jb@rti-sel.UUCP (Jeff Bartlett) Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.ham-radio.packet Subject: Re: Reducing costs to USENET backbone sites, packet radio Message-ID: <534@rti-sel.UUCP> Date: Thu, 7-Nov-85 04:33:30 EST Article-I.D.: rti-sel.534 Posted: Thu Nov 7 04:33:30 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 06:35:42 EST References: <598@aicchi.UUCP> <838@psivax.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC Lines: 110 Xref: watmath net.news.group:4362 net.ham-radio.packet:115 > In article <598@aicchi.UUCP> dbb@aicchi.UUCP (Burch) writes: > >Well, what about making the whole mess more efficient? > >To this end; > >1. Stargate; This seems like the best way for backbone sites to ship stuff. > > It has the advantage of being "free" and allowing the creation of > > "erzatz backbones" that have cable and can suck the stuff off CNN for > > their own use and for those sites that they feed. > > Sounds nice, but at present Stargate does not allow > "discussion" groups, only moderated ones, so it is not sufficient > on its own to provide for the needs of the whole net. > It also may cause problems with the single point of control/attack for news groups such as net.{religion,abortion,origin,motss,..etc}. > >2. Buy some better modems; ..... > >3. Fix NETNEWS. ..... > >4. Find "interested sites". ..... > 5. Restructure net connectivity to reduce the number and cost of the > long distance connections, replacing them with a greater number of > moderate to short distance connections. > 6. Have the recieving sites pay for the news .... Has anyone else noticed the quiet revolution that is happening in net.ham-radio.packet? Devices known as Terminal Node Controllers (TNCs) are used to implement a packet network, similar to ethernet, using the AX.25 protocol, 300 baud modems, and radio links. Recently, a journal quality article was published describing the Wiretap Algorithm a [.. class of routing algorthms that compute quasi-optimal routes for stations sharing a broadcast channel, but with some stations hidden ..] . It described work done in the Washington DC area in connecting forty-two TNC's and Digi-Repeaters. (see <257@mit-eddie.UUCP> ) Digi-Repeaters are single board computers with a two or more TNC/radios connected that echo packets along. I seem to remember reading that when the TAPR box (a TNC) was announced for release that the local telco ESS was jamed for a few days because of phone orders. Hundreds were sold. [for new.group] ... Consider Now that the backbone sites were connected with radio-links. == A lot of radio equipment can be bought for the amount of money spent per year in long-distance calls. == You say 300 baud is too slow, install N links in parallel, on different frequencies. (Wiretap describes 1200 baud using VHF) == Sun-spot activity causes un-reliable operation, revert back to long-distance dial-up temporary. [for ham-radio.packet] Recently, it was noted that a NameServer system was needed so that the ham operators could determine the latest path from point A to B. Name-space is not a problem since station ids are assigned by the FCC. This system could consist of several geographically remote unix machines that answered queries and periodically syncronized. A requester would query the nearest NameServer for a connection path. It would then use this information for the life of the connection. All live sites would periodically broadcast a beacon packet that would be overheard by the NameServer. Any bad connections would be reported to the NameServer; for which it could suggest alternate paths. (It could also investigate the reason why: did a station go off-line?) [both groups] Lets See... One group needs NameServers and the other needs lower communication costs. Let ... Some Unix sites become NameServers in exchange for using spare capacity on Digi-Repeaters and TNCs. In fact, some of sites may find local amateur radio groups willing to loan equipment to them (maybe .. local phone-lines to ham-shacks) so that their members have a NameServer in their area. A radio linked USENET would: - not be at the mercy of Ma-Bell. - be very fault-tolerance. - be highly connected. - be able to handle more traffic at almost flat cost. - etc....... --------- Let's hear it, what do the two groups have to say? --------- Ummm.. nameservd Jeff Bartlett Research Triangle Institute Research Triangle Park, NC mcnc!rti-sel!jb ^^^ "backbone" ^ 56k baud microwave P.S. Any ham operator in the triangle, please feel free to sent me mail..