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From: lkk@teddy.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Government and stability
Message-ID: <1590@teddy.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 5-Nov-85 13:41:35 EST
Article-I.D.: teddy.1590
Posted: Tue Nov  5 13:41:35 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 8-Nov-85 06:40:10 EST
References: <1473@teddy.UUCP> <28200189@inmet.UUCP>
Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney)
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass.
Lines: 79

In article <141@ucbjade.BERKELEY.EDU> mwm@ucbopal.UUCP (Mike (I'll be mellow when I'm dead) Meyer) writes:
>To refresh your memory, the question at hand is: Does government provide
>stability, and is that stability necessary for production. To induce you to
>read, there's a discussion of government and a definition of a new
>government type at the end.
>
>In article <1542@teddy.UUCP> lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) writes:
>
>From you own attempt to define stability by example:
>
>>Stability means I can make an investment in a house (or business), for
>>instance, and be relatively sure it won't be bulldozed over the next
>>day by my neighbor.  Stability means I can get a job, and not be fired
>>from it arbitrarily (and if I do, that I won't starve).  
>
>I notice you neglected to mention having your home made inaccessible by
>other means, whether it was destroyed or not. I don't know what the
>government did to the property it took from Japanese Americans during that
>period, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were bulldozed over.
>Likewise for being fired arbitrarily (if firing you for your race isn't
>arbitrary, I don't know what is!).
>

Please leave the poor strawmen alone.  How many times must I repeat
it, not all governments do their jobs (providing staability) well, and
not all people reap the benefits of the government.  Generally,
governments provide a service for a CLIENT.  Now I don't mean to say
that the government acts like a contractor, with formal agreements,
and taxes as a fee.

There are people who "have a say" in how the government is run.  In a
dictatorship, this is generally limited to a tiny ruling class.  In
the U.S.  the enfranchisement is broader, and most Americans are
clients of the government to some extent (although some a certainly
more "priveledged customers").

So in El Salvador, for instance, where the main clients are the
plantations owners, they are the ones for whom stability is provided.
THe peasants get treated like shit, but that is ok, as long as the
the lifestyle of the elites is maintained.

In the U.S.  many interest groups are represented and catered to by
the govt.  However, when most of the clients decide that some of the
clients need to be hurt for the common good, that can happen.
Internment of the Japanese certainly was destabilizing for them, but
it was percieved as a STABILITY measure for the country as a whole by
those who implemented it.



>So, here we have a case of production in the face of government-caused
>instability. Best example to negate your argument (that governments cause
>stability which is required for production) that I could possibly have!
>

The instability caused against the Japanese had a negligable effect on
society as a whole.  If there was a general impression that it could
have happened to ANYONE, then you might have seen to backlash.

>>The government is like the operating
>>system of a computer.  Like Unix, most (all) are full of bugs, but
>>wouldn't it be horrible there were NO operating systme, and each user
>>simply had direct access to the computer hardware, with no tools,
>>no protocol, no restrictions and no documentation?
>
>You just described CP/M. There are probably more of those little beasts than
>Unix systems around. An inadequately managed Unix system is *much* worse
>than a well-managed CP/M system. [And all of this is completely off the
>topic. Sorry.]

CP/M is fine  for single users machines. Similarly, libertarianism is great if
you live in a vacuum.

-- 
Sport Death,       (USENET) ...{decvax | ihnp4!mit-eddie}!genrad!panda!lkk
Larry Kolodney     (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa
--------
Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
- Helen Keller