Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site h-sc1.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!h-sc1!shiue From: shiue@h-sc1.UUCP (steve shiue) Newsgroups: net.philosophy,net.physics Subject: Electrons, etc., may TOO be deterministic. Message-ID: <664@h-sc1.UUCP> Date: Tue, 29-Oct-85 23:56:34 EST Article-I.D.: h-sc1.664 Posted: Tue Oct 29 23:56:34 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 31-Oct-85 08:46:24 EST Distribution: net Organization: Harvard Univ. Science Center Lines: 41 Keywords: QM, Hidden Variable Theory, Determinism, Bohm Xref: linus net.philosophy:2694 net.physics:3200 > > Electrons, atoms, molecules, biochemical processes, etc.. are not > causally deterministic mechanisms, at least if the advances in > knowledge about natural phenomena since 1930 are allowable as evidence. > > Therefore, the idea that "our behavior might be deterministic" is > profoundly unscientific. > > -michael This is incorrect. In fact, the chief philosophical controversy among physicists in quantum mechanics is the argument over whether quantum mechanics allows a deterministic interpretation of the evidence. The standard interpretation of quantum mechanics, which most scientists subscribe to, is non-deterministic. However, there have been so-called "hidden variable" theories proposed in recent years by some physicists (notably David Bohm) that allow for a deterministic scheme if the existence of unobservable variables is allowed for. One subset of these theories, called local hidden variable theories (local HVT's), was recently discredited by experiments in France. The other subset, called nonlocal HVT, is supported by all current evidence - but so is the standard interpretation, and there are no experiments currently devised that can distinguish between the two interpretations, hence nonlocal HVT's are regarded as nothing more than a philosophical "high ground". It might be argued that nonlocal HVT's should be excluded on the basis of Occam's Razor: they assume extra variables that we have no reason to believe in. However, it could also be argued that nonlocal HVT's more than compensate for this failing by adding determinism to the picture. There is a good review of this topic in SCIENCE about 1-2 years back by a physics professor from Syracuse - I can't seem to dig up my copy or remember his name. Anyway, I'll post the reference when I look it up. The article is good because it discusses all of the major philosophical points (and the French experiments), and the math isn't too way out. -Steve Shiue H.L. Mecken's definition of puritanism: The sneaking suspicion that somewhere, somehow, someone is having a good time.