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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!mcnc!rti-sel!jb
From: jb@rti-sel.UUCP (Jeff Bartlett)
Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.ham-radio.packet
Subject: Re: Reducing costs to USENET backbone sites, packet radio
Message-ID: <534@rti-sel.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 7-Nov-85 04:33:30 EST
Article-I.D.: rti-sel.534
Posted: Thu Nov  7 04:33:30 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Nov-85 06:35:42 EST
References: <598@aicchi.UUCP> <838@psivax.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Research Triangle Institute, NC
Lines: 110
Xref: watmath net.news.group:4362 net.ham-radio.packet:115

> In article <598@aicchi.UUCP> dbb@aicchi.UUCP (Burch) writes:
> >Well, what about making the whole mess more efficient?
> >To this end;
> >1. Stargate; This seems like the best way for backbone sites to ship stuff.
> >   It has the advantage of being "free" and allowing the creation of
> >   "erzatz backbones" that have cable and can suck the stuff off CNN for
> >   their own use and for those sites that they feed.
> 
> 	Sounds nice, but at present Stargate does not allow
> "discussion" groups, only moderated ones, so it is not sufficient
> on its own to provide for the needs of the whole net.
> 

It also may cause problems with the single point of control/attack for news
groups such as net.{religion,abortion,origin,motss,..etc}.

> >2. Buy some better modems; .....

> >3. Fix NETNEWS. .....

> >4. Find "interested sites". .....

>  5. Restructure net connectivity to reduce the number and cost of the
>     long distance connections, replacing them with a greater number of
>     moderate to short distance connections.

>  6. Have the recieving sites pay for the news ....

Has anyone else noticed the quiet revolution that is happening in
net.ham-radio.packet?

Devices known as Terminal Node Controllers (TNCs) are used to implement
a packet network, similar to ethernet, using the AX.25 protocol,
300 baud modems, and radio links.

Recently, a journal quality article was published describing the
Wiretap Algorithm a [.. class of routing algorthms that compute quasi-optimal
routes for stations sharing a broadcast channel, but with some stations
hidden ..] .   It described work done in the Washington DC area in connecting
forty-two TNC's and Digi-Repeaters. (see <257@mit-eddie.UUCP> )

	Digi-Repeaters are single board computers with a two or more
	TNC/radios connected that echo packets along.

I seem to remember reading that when the TAPR box (a TNC) was announced
for release that the local telco ESS was jamed for a few days because
of phone orders.  Hundreds were sold.

[for new.group]
... Consider Now that the backbone sites were connected with radio-links.

	== A lot of radio equipment can be bought for the amount of money
		spent per year in long-distance calls.

	== You say 300 baud is too slow, install N links in parallel, on
		different frequencies.
		(Wiretap describes 1200 baud using VHF)

	== Sun-spot activity causes un-reliable operation, revert back to
		long-distance dial-up temporary.

[for ham-radio.packet]

Recently, it was noted that a NameServer system was needed so that the
ham operators could determine the latest path from point A to B.
Name-space is not a problem since station ids are assigned by the FCC.

This system could consist of several geographically remote unix machines
that answered queries and periodically syncronized.

A requester would query the nearest NameServer for a connection path.
It would then use this information for the life of the connection.

All live sites would periodically broadcast a beacon packet that would be
overheard by the NameServer.   Any bad connections would be reported to the
NameServer; for which it could suggest alternate paths. (It could also
investigate the reason why: did a station go off-line?)

[both groups]

Lets See...  One group needs NameServers and the other needs lower
	communication costs.

Let ... Some Unix sites become NameServers in exchange for using spare
	capacity on Digi-Repeaters and TNCs.

In fact, some of sites may find local amateur radio groups willing to loan
	equipment to them (maybe .. local phone-lines to ham-shacks) so that
	their members have a NameServer in their area.

A radio linked USENET would:
	- not be at the mercy of Ma-Bell.
	- be very fault-tolerance.
	- be highly connected.
	- be able to handle more traffic at almost flat cost.
	- etc.......

---------
Let's hear it, what do the two groups have to say?
---------
Ummm.. nameservd

Jeff Bartlett
Research Triangle Institute
Research Triangle Park, NC
mcnc!rti-sel!jb
^^^ "backbone"
    ^ 56k baud microwave

P.S. Any ham operator in the triangle, please feel free to sent me mail..