Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site infopro.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxcc!infopro!david From: david@infopro.UUCP (David Fiedler) Newsgroups: net.aviation Subject: Falcon-Piper Crash Over New Jersey Message-ID: <775@infopro.UUCP> Date: Mon, 11-Nov-85 03:23:38 EST Article-I.D.: infopro.775 Posted: Mon Nov 11 03:23:38 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 12-Nov-85 04:21:48 EST Distribution: net Organization: InfoPro Systems Lines: 62 This is being written only a few hours after the crash, and only after hearing television reports plus being familiar with the area. Apparently a Piper Cherokee hit a Dassault Falcon 50 bizjet nearly headon, both planes caught fire, and landed in a residential area. The jet hit an apartment house and completely demolished same, plus the kind of fires you would expect with large quantities of jet fuel around. Everybody died, plus an unknown number of people on the ground. Early reports were that the smaller plane involved was a Cessna, possibly due to the "all small planes are Cessnas" disease that tragically affects so many in the general mass media. We have heard that the Falcon had gotten clearance to land at Teterboro on Runway 19 and that the Piper was also in contact with Teterboro tower for transiting their airspace, that each was warned of the other's presence, and that both were flying VFR. The collision seems to have happened over the Hudson River (just 4.5 miles west of Runway 19), so the Falcon must have been making quite a wide pattern. From other reports, the jet was owned by Nabisco Brands (based in East Hanover), and had taken off from Morristown Municipal A/P, about 30 miles southwest of Teterboro. The Piper had taken off from my home base, Caldwell A/P, and apparently was heading east, over Teterboro but under the New York TCA. No names have been released yet; it's quite possible I know someone involved. A local flight instructor was interviewed on Channel 2 news (CBS) about the general safety of that airspace. He said that it was congested (true), that part of the problem at Teterboro is fast jets mixing with slower single-engine prop planes (probably true), and also Sunday pilots trying to get home before it gets dark, since they aren't current for darkness (possibly also true, but a lot of speculation here). At 5:05 PM local when the accident occurred, it had just started getting fairly dark. My feeling about this interview is that people involved in any activity that is easily misunderstood by the general public for technical reasons should be VERY careful when interviewed on television. The distinct impression I would have gotten had I known nothing about flying was that "little" planes had no proper business in this airspace where "only jets belong" (quotes are not meant to imply exact words from interview). You can bet that someone (read: headline-grabbing politician) will move to further restrict light planes in this area after this tragedy. This will no doubt occur no matter who the FAA/NTSB finds at fault (it would have to be both pilots at a minimum since they were both VFR, right?). We have heard both that the Falcon pilot acknowledged seeing the Piper, and vice-versa. This bothers me mostly because I know, as a student pilot, that everyone in this area avoids the TCA like the plague. It is perfectly possible to fly below the TCA (which starts at 3000' MSL), but in the particular area near Teterboro, the TCA floor is only 1800'. Keeping well under this puts you too close to TPA at Teterboro (1000' light, 1500' heavy) for comfort, especially when you mix in the large numbers of sightseeing aircraft going up and down the Hudson at around 1100'. My beef is that we are TAUGHT to avoid the TCA, as if it were totally restricted airspace, yet we casually go through TRSA's even as students on our second cross-countries. It's true that they don't HAVE to let us in, but maybe if more of us felt like we were welcome, we would be able to transit a busy area under positive radar control at a slightly safer altitude. Aside from traffic, there are a lot of tall antennas, bridges, and buildings in this area! Sorry for the occasional cynicism, but I get worried about our airspace rights every time this kind of thing happens, and I'm also upset at people getting killed. Yes, I *have* joined AOPA, the day I soloed.