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From: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: How come God doesn't affect Dave?
Message-ID: <531@oakhill.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 13-Sep-85 20:31:08 EDT
Article-I.D.: oakhill.531
Posted: Fri Sep 13 20:31:08 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 15-Sep-85 23:49:11 EDT
References: <305@pyuxn.UUCP> <630@ihu1m.UUCP> <309@pyuxn.UUCP>
Reply-To: davet@oakhill.UUCP (Dave Trissel)
Organization: Motorola Inc. Austin, Tx
Lines: 75

In article <344@pyuxn.UUCP> pez@pyuxn.UUCP (Paul Zimmerman) writes:

>             ...                      You talk about the way your experience
>of tragedy pales in comparison to your good fortune. But then you mention
>your problems and dismiss them by calling them minor. Are you saying that
>you have never had the forces of anti-nature work against you and cause you
>problems? Or are you saying that you have learned not to care when these
>things happen? Who or what might have caused you not to care?
>

It's difficult answering because it's not clear what you mean by "anti-nature
work against [me]".  I gave examples of negative things in my life (boring
work tasks etc.) but are you referring to these or much worse things like
losing a leg or having a medical problem for the rest of a lifetime?

Do you think most people have horrible things happening to them a lot?  If so,
give examples of what you mean.  The way you use phrases suggest to me that
you have in mind things that take a lot of effort to build and then can
collapse like marriages, carreers, stock market equity, etc.  Maybe you can
give examples in your own life that you think are directly caused by the
Damager-God so I can better understand what you mean.

>                      ...                                     You claim that
>the sudden death of someone who spoke out against the Damager-God wouldn't
>convince many people about God's evil. Perhaps not. But maybe it might infuse
>the thought in the minds of just a few. The planting of that seed is something
>God would certainly not want to see.

Could God be so weak that he/she/it is afraid of an idea in peoples heads?
Again I am confused about how a God could be so weak and if so, why should I
fear such a weak God.

>                 ...                                             I think
>your description of God as nothing more than a ``gremlin'' is diffused by
>offering the examples of God's evil throughout history: Sodom and Gomorrah,
>the Tower of Babel, the plagues in Egypt (which there is historical
>evidence for), the Crusades, Nazi Germany.

But what about all the times in-between where people have been happy and
lived wonderful lives?  You can't just look at one side.  There will always
be both horrible and wonderful events happening.  To me, they look pretty
evened out.

If you believe the first three from the Bible, then why can't D-God do the
same today?  Why doesn't he make Chicago go up in smoke like Sodom? If he
wasn't afraid to do it back then why not now?

>	Dave, certainly YOU are engaging in bold speculation when you
>assume I must have some negative character flaw for believing as I do.

It's interesting that you are the one using the words "negative" and "flaw".
If you go back over my postings you will see that I have never claimed
that your belief system is somehow inferior or that you are mad or crazy
like others have done.  Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean
you are somehow inferior.

>you
>are not trying to ``understand,'' you are trying to rationalize away your
>disbelief by claiming that since you cannot find a problem with the belief
>there MUST be a problem with the believer.

I am suprized that you think I cannot find a problem with the belief.  I noted
several, some which you have tried to answer and others you haven't.  I also
stated quite plainly that to me your reasoning doesn't logically follow
from the facts.  Until you explain why "if God is so bad why am I happy"
I have no recourse but to believe that there either is no God or if there
is he/she/it can't be a powerful evil thing.

I have followed your ideas that D-God is so tricky that it won't blatently
do things or else we will catch-on.  I find such a God weak and nothing to
fear.  Isn't it obvious that a bad God would better enjoy us suffering while
he openly laughs in our faces?  You have D-God having to hide his pleasure
at our suffering.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

 -- Dave Trissel    {ihnp4,seismo}!ut-sally!oakhill!davet