Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site dciem.UUCP Path: utzoo!dciem!mmt From: mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Re: (micromotives & macrobehavior) Message-ID: <1689@dciem.UUCP> Date: Sat, 21-Sep-85 14:31:20 EDT Article-I.D.: dciem.1689 Posted: Sat Sep 21 14:31:20 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Sep-85 20:17:50 EDT References: <3476@topaz.UUCP> <28200078@inmet.UUCP> <755@cybvax0.UUCP> <10414@ucbvax.ARPA> Reply-To: mmt@dciem.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Organization: D.C.I.E.M., Toronto, Canada Lines: 51 Summary: >The *only* case of starvation in the face of food surplus that I know of was >the starvation of the Kulaks by Stalin in the 30's. In fact, the only cases >of famine in this century have been in Marxist or Socialist nations, as far as >I know. Do you know of any cases of famine in capitalist nations? > > -- Rick. Not knowing how to define "capitalist", I can't say, but the Enclyclopaedia Britannica (1968 edition, so it's a bit out of date) lists the following 20th century famines: 1899-1901 Famine in India; 1,000,000 perished. The government spent L10,000,000 on relief, and at one time there were 4,500,000 people on the relief works. 1905 Famine in Russia (Feudal or capitalist?) 1916 Famine in China (Capitalist?) 1921 Famine in USSR (Not the Stalin-induced one) 1932-33 Famine in USSR (Ukraine, I suppose) 1943 Famine in Bengal; about 1,500,000 perished (capitalist) 1960-61 Famine in the Congo quickly relieved by the United Nations. The Encyclopaedia has this to say about Indian famines: ======== Successive Indian Governments acquired much experience in the handling of famines. Nearly all famines are relatively local and the main problem is the bringing of food from neighbouring areas. Transport is a key to the problem. The building of the Indian railways in the middle of the 19th century, for example, led indirectly to a great saving of life. A principle of British famine administration in India was that gratuitous relief should not be given. If money could be brought into the famine area, then food would automatically follow through the normal trade channels. The organization of large emergency public works was the means adopted to overcome the shortage of money. Elaborate plans were drawn up in all areas where famine was possible and works opened as soon as signs of scarcity arose. There are criticisms in detail of this emthod (for instance, persons doing manual labour need more food), but on the whole the measures prevented major disasters. ======== Compare this with Carnes' note on the handling of the Irish potato famine. The same economic principles apply -- no direct relief, and you get only what food you can pay for -- but the state took on itself the obligation of giving people work for which they could get paid (and which had a useful end result). The disastrous consequences of laissez-faire economics were thus ameliorated by "socialist" techniques, much as the WPA helped ameliorate the worst effects of the depression in the 1930s. -- Martin Taylor {allegra,linus,ihnp4,floyd,ubc-vision}!utzoo!dciem!mmt {uw-beaver,qucis,watmath}!utcsri!dciem!mmt