Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ut-ngp.UTEXAS Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!qantel!dual!mordor!ut-sally!ut-ngp!rama From: rama@ut-ngp.UTEXAS (rama) Newsgroups: net.nlang.india Subject: Re: Marriages and Dowry Expires: Refere Message-ID: <2430@ut-ngp.UTEXAS> Date: Sun, 29-Sep-85 11:47:16 EDT Article-I.D.: ut-ngp.2430 Posted: Sun Sep 29 11:47:16 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 4-Oct-85 05:35:46 EDT References: <5585@fortune.UUCP> <51700004@uiucdcsp> <3039@ut-sally.UUCP> Organization: The University of Texas, Austin, TX 78712 Lines: 85 The debate on dowry, or shall I say discussion, has been going on for a couple of days now and perhaps it is time we Indians sort the issue out. Since Raghu's article is the most recent, and in a way the most verbose, let me respond to him. Raghu, you have used two or three terms in your posting that may warrant a closer look. One, you talk of the inability to find a "good match" (my inverted commas) without a substantial dowry. Would you really feel happy if the only "good match" you found for your sister/daughter was one that you had to purchase? Would you be willing to marry the girl whose father/brother pays you the highest dowry? If the thought of accepting dowry repulses you, then then obviously in your personal philosophy, accepting dowry is abhorrent. Then why pray marry your sister/daughter to someone who practices a repulsive pernicious practice? Two, I somehow feel uneasy with the concept of finding a match for one's sister/daughter. If one looks beyond the obvious, it is reflective of our philosophy that the females in our (Hindu) society are incapable of acting on their own and living their own lives. There is no doubt that almost all the Hindu marriages in India are arranged and the decision making process in arranged marriages is hardly democratic. Of course, one might well make the argument that women in India lead a very sheltered life, and consequently are not capable of choosing between the good and the bad grooms. Well, do the parents/ elder brothers do a very good job when the predominant criterion seems to be dowry? At the worst, the role of the male is to carry information so as to enable clearing of the market, which is accomplished by finding buyers at the price the bride's party is willing to sell. At the best, the males in the bride's family conduct some background checks on the lifestyle of the male. All things considered, the female's life in India doesn't seem to be very enviable. Which now brings us to Raghu's thousand dollar question -- If the only way you can find a decent match for a girl is by offering dowry, and if dowry giving is unacceptable to you, is it proper to put your principles before the welfare of your sister/daughter? I am sorry Raghu, but if you dig a little deeper into your question, you will want to ask yourself --By selling my sister/daughter to some bidder in the marriage market is her welfare assured? Is that what the welfare of an individual is all about? I am convinved that you will want to reconsider your priorities. As long as we uphold the idea that a woman is only happy or most happy when she is married, your question is a moot one. But if we redefine welfare so as to accord women the role they deserve and that they have been so wrongfully denied for centuries, maybe you would want to ask to ask yourself different questions. Women are the spine of every nation, they work far harder than males, are almost always in the unwaged sector in many nations, particularly the third world and work under far hazardous conditions than males do. e.g. Over half the total energy consumption in India comes from non-commercial sources, mostly fire-wood and a little cow-dung. The firewood consumed is not in the form of large logs or thick branches but consists predominantly of twigs. leaves, small branches and other items. In a survey in a village called Ungra in Karnataka, it was found that women spent between six to eight hours collecting this "firewood", and figures for the nation were expected to be comparable. (I would be glad to supply references to anyone interested) Given that a day's inhalation of wood smoke (which is what almost all our rural women go through) is equivalent to smoking six packs of cigarettes a day, need we elaborate any more. ( See Anil Aggrawala -- The State of Indian Environment 1984) There is a lot more to this discussion of dowry, but for the moment I shall stop here. Perhaps more from my side later. Given k