Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: $Revision: 1.6.2.16 $; site inmet.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!bbnccv!inmet!janw From: janw@inmet.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Re: (micromotives & macrobehavior) Message-ID: <28200127@inmet.UUCP> Date: Wed, 25-Sep-85 17:19:00 EDT Article-I.D.: inmet.28200127 Posted: Wed Sep 25 17:19:00 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 1-Oct-85 10:05:54 EDT References: <3476@topaz.UUCP> Lines: 106 Nf-ID: #R:topaz:-347600:inmet:28200127:000:5038 Nf-From: inmet!janw Sep 25 17:19:00 1985 > /* Written 2:31 pm Sep 21, 1985 by mmt@dciem in inmet:net.politics.t */ > >Do you know of any cases of famine in capitalist nations? > > -- Rick. > Not knowing how to define "capitalist", I can't say, but the Enclyclopaedia > Britannica (1968 edition, so it's a bit out of date) lists the following > 20th century famines: [a list follows] Let me provide a reference about the three listed Russian famines and one unlisted (I happen to have some knowledge of that coun- try), and hazard a guess on some others (but I defer to more knowledgeable people on that). > 1905 Famine in Russia (Feudal or capitalist?) Half-and-half. But this famine shouldn't even be listed with the others. Very few, if any, people actually died; the reason people abroad noticed was that it was the only thing of its kind in *Europe*. So it got into Britannica. > 1921 Famine in USSR (Not the Stalin-induced one) Right. This one has the signatures of Lenin and Trotsky. Several millions died in it; cannibalism and other horrors were rampant, especially in the Volga area. It was produced by the simple "Ethiopian" method of confiscating all the surplus grain any peasant family had. The "surplus" was defined by special bands of armed people, and often included seed grain; but in any case the villagers, after 3 years of this, took care not to produce any surplus. When the draught came, there they were. To do Lenin justice, he accepted foreign aid, and also changed the system of taxation to a fixed amount of grain and other products, to be delivered by each family according to its pre-estimated capacity; and they would be allowed to sell the rest. Comparative prosperity followed this capitalist measure. > 1932-33 Famine in USSR (Ukraine, I suppose) Ukraine was just the worst hit area. Estimated six or seven million died there, and a few million elsewhere. (Not to be confused with so-called kulaks who were deported in 1929-1931 and mostly perished). This was the direct result of forced collectivization. Among other features that set this famine apart : - Grain exports were *stepped up* . - No relief was organized or allowed. - This includes tax relief: starving villages were required to supply their full quota of grain. - The districts where the situation was worst were cordoned off, and anyone trying to escape was shot. - The urban population was kept largely in ignorance of what was going on. Of course, individuals could not help noticing a lot, but since they could not speak of it, the damage was controlled. Officially, prosperity was unlimited. Outside the country, very little was noticed; this was the time Western intellectuals started believing in the Soviet experiment. [unlisted] 1946 Famine in USSR. Not localized. Most (? - based on personal impressions of a few people) village families in central Russia lost at least one member (usually a child ) that year. Result of the wartime levies on the peasants, of draught, and, most of all, of Stalin's tax policies in the collective farms. The policies were - in a word - redistributionist. I could explain more fully, if asked. Unlike Lenin, Stalin refused foreign aid. > 1916 Famine in China (Capitalist?) Hardly. Marxist historians (who like this term) call it feudal. I am surprised nothing else is listed on China, but can't fill in from memory. My recollection is that there were many famines; I don't know what is needed to qualify for Britannica. Some preceded the Communist takeover. Then, in early fifties, there were large peasant revolts in southern China. I remember reading with amazement an official Sinhua press agency report of successes in combatting what they called "bandits". In one operation two million of these "bandits" were reportedly killed. And, of course, there was a huge famine following the "Great Leap Forward" - but that was too recent for your edition of Britannica to reflect. > 1899-1901 Famine in India; 1,000,000 perished. The government spent > L10,000,000 on relief, and at one time there were 4,500,000 > people on the relief works. > 1943 Famine in Bengal; about 1,500,000 perished (capitalist) We have many people from India on the net; I am sorry if what I say turns out to be nonsense. The way I see it, most of Indian economy was agriculture. The land was held by peasant communes under two systems (one was called rayyatvari, the other zamindari (sp.)) The second one, involving about a third of the country, was feudal: there was a ladder of vassal dependency from a rajah to a peasant. The first was, in a way, "socialist" : the land belonged to the state and was rented to the peasants. Bengal, I believe, belonged to this system. To me, all this doesn't sound capitalist. Jan Wasilewsky