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From: mokhtar@ubc-vision.UUCP (Farzin Mokhtarian)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: The REAL Final Solution, reply to Sherman, long but informative
Message-ID: <1051@ubc-vision.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 26-Sep-85 01:16:39 EDT
Article-I.D.: ubc-visi.1051
Posted: Thu Sep 26 01:16:39 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 26-Sep-85 08:33:04 EDT
Organization: UBC Computational Vision Lab, Vancouver, B.C., Canada
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Subject: Re: The REAL Final Solution
Quoted from: Dave Sherman

> The fact that the Jews persisted is testimony to two things: the
> deep-rooted Jewish affiliation for the Land of Israel, and the
> stark realization that it was the absence of an independent
> state for the Jewish people which sealed the fate of the Jews of Europe.

I don't know how true this claim is. There is strong evidence indicating
that since 1946 Israel has had total military superiority over *all* the
Arab states combined. According to US military and intelligence estimates
there has never been the slightest chance that the Arabs could "drive the
Israelis into the sea." It is not very difficult to persist with these 
kinds of odds working for you. 
  
In early 1948, Irgun (the military arm of Zionist extremists) was involved
in "recruitment" drives in the Jewish Displaced Persons Camps in Europe.
Those who refused to "volunteer" to fight the Arabs in Palestine were beaten
and threatened with death. Perhaps not all jews had a deep-rooted affiliation
for the land of Israel.
  
> Israel got underway in 1948 with no support whatsoever from the
> United States government, which imposed an arms embargo.

This is as far from truth as it can be! Three former Israel Prime ministers
who were deeply involved  in the diplomatic, military and financial aspects
of the creation of the state, David Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharett and Golda Meir,
have paid elaborate homage in their writings to the US assistance and most
particularly President Truman for his critical role in the creation of the 
new state. They had good reason. Examples:
 
a) Truman intervened repeatedly to assist the Zionist leaders.
b) Pressured  Britain to accept more refugees in Palestine.
c) Supported the original UN partition plan.
d) Appointed an ambassador to Tel Aviv who strongly favored Israel over Arabs.
e) Arranged the Export-Import Bank loan and a temporary credit in response to
   a Jewish Agency request.
f) At the end of the British mandate, appealed publicly to the Arab nations 
   not to attack the new Jewish state.
g) The US delegation at the UN repeatedly took Israel's side in disputes over
   successive armistice lines that gave Israel ever larger portions of Arab
   Palestinian land.
h) The Truman state department lobbyed hard for UN membership for Israel which
   was granted quickly.
     
>                                                          Israel's
> survival in her early years was due to scrounging arms from wherever
> they could be found (Czechoslovakia was an early supplier), and a
> fighting force made up of the entire population, which knew that
> if Israel did not survive, there would be another mass destruction
> of Jews.

The fighting force also included American military officers (more than 1300 of
them) who were recruited by the Haganah and paid considerably to fight for
Israel. In fact, a substantial portion of Israel's command structure and
virtually all of its Air Force were composed of foreign volunteers. In 1948-49,
the Arabs were fighting the combined forces and resources of the international
Jewish community. 
  
Israel got much of its arms during that period from the US which was by no means
enforcing its own embargo. 
  
> The U.S. does not risk a single one of its men in defense of Israel.
  
The U.S. has risked and lost men for the sake of Israel. 34 men of the U.S.S.
Liberty died when it was attacked by *Israeli* forces during the Six-day war
of 1967. Liberty was a very advanced spy ship but it had no defences. Israel
had every opportunity to verify the ship's identity but claimed that the 
whole thing was a "mistake". There is reason to speculate that they felt
uneasy about the ship's surveillance capabilities. 
 
> The UN hardly "allowed the Jews to take Palestine". The UN approved
> a plan to divide 23% of Palestine into two parts, one a homeland for
> Arabs, the other for Jews. The UN offered no support to the Jews
> whatsoever when the Jews followed up on the plan and formed the
> State of Israel.

The UN did not vote on any detailed procedure for the creation of  the two
new states. The jewish agency just decided to go ahead and  announce that a
provisional government was being formed. After that the Irgun ( leader of
which was Menahem Begin ) started a campaign of terror in order to force
mass movement of Arabs outside Palestine. An example is the attack on Deir
Yassin by 100 Irgun and Stern gang members in which 250 men, women and
children were blown up with dynamite inside their own stone houses. A proud
moment. 
  
Let me conclude by saying that I have no anti-jewish feelings whatsoever but
I believe we needed a more balanced picture of the story.
  
Main Reference: Taking Sides, America's Secret Relations with a Militant
		Israel.      By Stephen Green, William Morrow and Co., Inc.
		New York 1984.
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"I feel a concentration of evil thought here."