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From: dlo@drutx.UUCP (OlsonDL)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Re: Newsflash! [JoSH on Socialists]
Message-ID: <14@drutx.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 25-Sep-85 10:20:27 EDT
Article-I.D.: drutx.14
Posted: Wed Sep 25 10:20:27 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 27-Sep-85 03:13:20 EDT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
Lines: 61

> and >>> = Martin Taylor
>> = Rick

>>>
>>>Wealth is created by the re-organization of things
>>>(the reduction of entropy, if you like).
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>When I took physics, I was taught that entropy always increased.
>Then you misunderstood your physics.  Entropy increases over a closed
>system.  Here we are talking about a system fueled by energy mostly obtained
>from the sun (yes, a "free lunch").  In the presence of energy flows,
>entropy in a subsystem can and often does decrease (organization increases).
>That's what life is all about, whether of biological or social orgainisms.

What you are describing is funny fysics (phunny physics?) ;-).  If the sun
fuels a system, then the sun is a part of the system.  This energy comes
at the expense of the sun (still no "free lunch", so there!  That you are
using energy that left the sun anyway doesn't change the fact that the sun
has less energy now than it did before), so entropy still increases.  Like
electricity, wealth must be generated; it cannot be merely claimed.  Some
people generate more than others, and are, therefore, richer than others.
Some people become rich through some dastrdly deed, but that doesn't the
fact that for wealth to exist requires people free enough to generate it
themselves; government intervention only hinders that process.  It all
must come at the expense of something or somebody (either you or somebody
else).

>>
>>>Whether it is the most efficient way
>>>of doing so is a different story, but to regard government as only
>>>a transfer medium for existing wealth is like seeing a painting as
>>>a transfer medium for oil and pigment.

Willian F. Buckley Jr. once said, "If a man sitting next to you ceases to
blow cigarette smoke into your face, he is not providing you with clean
air -- but, merely reducing the pollution of it".
>>
>>No one regards government as a transfer medium for existing wealth, unless
>>you think of a black hole as a "transfer medium".
>>
>>                                Socialism Delenda Est,
>>                                        Rick.
>This is unclear, unless you think that civil servants dump their paychecks
>into the sewers -- no, that wouldn't do it, because it would reduce only
>the money, not the wealth.  Perhaps it must be that people don't buy things
>with money passed through taxes?  No, that hardly seems right.  I give up.
>What DO you mean?
>
>Martin Taylor

If civil servants (or anybody else for that matter) do not generate wealth
equivalent to the value in their paychecks, you bet the wealth that went
into that paycheck went right down the hole!

These opinions belong to anyone who wants to claim them.

David Olson
..!ihnp4!drutx!dlo

"To laugh at men of sense is the privilege of fools". -- Jean de la Bruyere