Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site cybvax0.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!harvard!think!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Production vs. Distribution Message-ID: <768@cybvax0.UUCP> Date: Fri, 20-Sep-85 15:57:52 EDT Article-I.D.: cybvax0.768 Posted: Fri Sep 20 15:57:52 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 25-Sep-85 05:42:02 EDT References: <28200081@inmet.UUCP> Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA Lines: 72 Summary: In article <28200081@inmet.UUCP> janw@inmet.UUCP writes: > > [Mike Huybenz] > > The fact is that the wealth of a nation does not feed the poor. It is the > > distribution of the wealth that does. > > Omit the "not" to get a fact [in Mike's 1st sentence; and add "not" > after "is" in the 2nd sentence]. In the USA, one can eat like a > king off a garbage dump. One hour's work at McDonald's could feed > a 3d world citizen for a week. A perfect example of my point. There aren't garbage dumps overflowing with food everywhere people are hungry. There weren't when there was major malnutrition in Appalachia, and there isn't in the back country of Ethiopia. In both cases, wealth is not the problem: its distribution is. > To prove his point, Mike would have to name a rich nation whose > poor are *poor* not by THAT country's standards, but *by poor > country standards*. There's no such place. To prove my point I need only name a nation that can feed its poor who cannot afford to eat well. > The poor of any nation know they profit by its wealth. Proof: > they seldom or never migrate to poorer countries, at least for > economic reasons. They HOPE to profit. The fact is that they often remain poor and starving in other countries as well. > If "distribution of wealth" mattered more to the poor popula- > tions than its abundance in society, you would observe them > flocking from wealthier countries to poorer but more welfare- > oriented countries - e.g., from Hongkong to PRC. Or from USA > to Great Britain. All economic migrations go the other way. What about the settlement of the USA? For centuries poor from GB and other wealthier nations came here: for free land. There was unused land available in those nations, but it tended to be tied up in large private estates because of the poor distribution of wealth. There are similar migrations today, from nations where a few large land owners own most of the commercially and agriculturally productive land. > Even inside a poor country, refugees from a famine area know > that reaching a prosperous province means life. Try telling > *them* trickle-down does not work. Try telling the starving in Ethiopia that the government is trickling down the food for them sent by us, and not pilfering, reselling, and otherwise keeping it out of their hands. I hope they eat you. :-( > The problem of poverty hinges on wealth creation, NOT on its > distribution. To verify this, list nations, first in the order of > per capita GNP; then according to *per capita consumption of pro- > tein*. This is a nice indicator because it tells you how the > great mass of citizens live. The rich can only eat so much pro- > tein, so they cannot distort the picture. I haven't done it be- > cause I have no doubt of the result. Distribution takes care of > itself, one way or another. Distribution may take care of itself if there is enough wealth, but only if the powerful and wealthy are willing to allow it or subsidize it. There are too many examples of export of food from famine areas by force of arms or force of market. The poor in a subsistance economy cannot outbid the rich for foodstuffs, even if the rich wish to feed it to pigs. Wealth creation too is dependent upon distribution of wealth. Small private farms tend to be much more productive than large communal farms or large estates (depending on the agricultural conditions), and thus are the goal of many types of land reform. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh