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From: charli@cylixd.UUCP (Charli Phillips)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Re: the need for correct doctrine
Message-ID: <312@cylixd.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 23-Sep-85 11:46:26 EDT
Article-I.D.: cylixd.312
Posted: Mon Sep 23 11:46:26 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 24-Sep-85 03:26:14 EDT
References: <304@cylixd.UUCP>
Reply-To: charli@cylixd.UUCP (Charli Phillips)
Organization: RCA Cylix Communications , Memphis, TN
Lines: 95
Summary: 

In article <304@cylixd.UUCP> charli@cylixd.UUCP (Charli Phillips) writes:
>Some comments from the July 1 Forum Letter by Richard John Neuhaus
>might be of interest here.
>
>In commenting on the "gnesio-Lutherans," Neuhaus states:
>
>"As important as the doctrine of justification by faith surely is, we
>are not baptized into a doctrine; we are baptized into the one, holy,
>catholic and apostolic Church. . . The one Church of which we are part
>has existed and does exist also where that doctrine is not taught."
>
>In a separate artical, Neuhaus notes that the editors of the _Lutheran
>Perspective_ have stated that the Athanasian Creed "can be understood to
>suggest that correct faith is a work by which we merit salvation."  The
>editors suggest that a council of Catholics, Lutherans, Anglicans, etc.,
>meet to "clean up the text".  (For those not familiar with it, the
>Athanasian Creed is a doctrinal statement about the Trinity and the
>Incarnation.  It dates from about 400 A.D.)  
>
>The following seem like obvious questions for discussion:  
>
>Is correct faith or correct doctrine necessary to salvation?
>If so, to what extent?  What differentiates an unbeliever from
>a believer holding a "bad doctrine"?
>
>Should the Athanasian Creed be "cleaned up"?  If so, what would you
>change?
>
>(If these comments trigger any other interesting questions or comments,
>please post them, too!)
>
>		charli


For anyone not familiar with it, here is the Athanasian Creed:

Whoever wants to be saved should above all cling to the catholic faith.
Whoever does not guard it whole and inviolable will doubtless perish.
Now this is the catholic faith: We worship one God in trinity, and the
Trinity in unity, neither confusing the persons nor dividing the divine
being.  For the Father is one person, the Son is another, and the Spirit
is still another.  But the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is
one, equal in glory, coeternal in majesty.

What the Father is, the Son is, and so is the Holy Spirit.  Uncreated is
the Father; uncreated is the Son; uncreated is the Spirit.  The Father
is infinite; the Son is infinite; the Holy Spirit is infinite.  Eternal
is the Father; eternal is the Son; eternal is the Spirit.  And yet there
are not three eternal beings, but one who is eternal; as there are not
three uncreated and unlimited beings, but one who is uncreated and
unlimited.  Almighty is the Father; almighty is the Son; almighty is the
Spirit: And yet there are not three almighty beings, but one who is 
almighty.  Thus the Father is God; the Son is God; the Holy Spirit is 
God:  And yet there are not three gods, but one God.  Thus the Father is
Lord; the Son is Lord; the Holy Spirit is Lord:  And yet there are not 
three lords, but one Lord.  As Christian truth compels us to acknowledge
each distinct person as God and Lord, so catholic religion forbids us to
say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten; the Son was neither
made nor created, but was alone begotten of the Father; the Spirit was
neither made nor created, but is proceeding from the Father and the Son.
Thus there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons;
one Holy Spirit, not three spirits.  And in this Trinity, no one is
before or after, greater or less than the other; but all three persons
are in themselves, coeternal and coequal; and so we must worship the
Trinity in unity and the one God in three persons.  Whoever wants to be
saved should think thus about the Trinity.

It is necessary for eternal salvation that one also faithfully believe 
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son, is both God and man.  He is God,
begotten before all worlds from the being of the Father, and he is man, 
born in the world from the being of his mother - existing fully as God,
and fully as man with a rational soul and a human body; equal to the
Father in divinity, subordinate to the Father in humanity.  Although he
is God and man, he is not divided, but is one Christ.  He is united
because God has taken humanity into himself; he does not transform
deity into humanity.  He is completely one in the unity of his person,
without confusing his natures.  For as the rational soul and body are
one person, so the one Christ is God and man.  He suffered death for
our salvation.  He descended into hell and rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.  At his coming
all people shall rise bodily to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life, those who have done
evil will enter eternal fire.  

This is the catholic faith.  One cannot be saved without believing this
firmly and faithfully.


(Text cited here translated by Ralph W. Quere, from the Lutheran Book of
Worship, 1978.)

		charli