Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ccivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!rochester!ritcv!ccivax!rb From: rb@ccivax.UUCP (rex ballard) Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga Subject: Re: amiga & st Message-ID: <266@ccivax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 18-Sep-85 21:10:45 EDT Article-I.D.: ccivax.266 Posted: Wed Sep 18 21:10:45 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Sep-85 10:12:30 EDT References: <11603@rochester.UUCP> Organization: CCI Telephony Systems Group, Rochester NY Lines: 73 > From: Henry.Kautz > I am amazed at how the ST is being ignored by the computer press. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Nothing touches it for price/performance. The Atari ads people are > complaining about are a lot more factual then 99% of the ads you see > (yeah, tell me why NRC "builds a better computer", why ATT "has the > future built in", or why "an Apple can balance your budget"; if you > want to flame, then flame about the AT ads which stress its enormous > address space, but don't mention that DOS can't use it...) > ---- Henry Kautz > :uucp: {seismo|allegra}!rochester!henry > :arpa: henry@rochester > :mail: Dept. of Comp. Sci., U. of Rochester, NY 14627 > :phone: (716) 275-5766 Many seem to be holding judgement until they can get some software for the machine. Infoworld just gave the ST a rather poor rating, the main problem, lack of software, lack of support, lack of documentation. Unfortunately, the "Developer's Kit" was not included with the system. With the developer's kit, you have a very powerful machine!!! Without it, you are sort of stuck with LOGO and a few DEMO's. Unfortunately, the "Developers Kit" is also not a "product" either. Try to apply to the bank for two separate loans, one for software and one for the ST. My hope was that, like the old "CP/M" machines, they would at least include the assembler, linker, and minimal developement tools. Instead, they want you to "Mail Order" for eight disks, several of which contain Public Domain software. My guess is that Atari is trying to encourage more third party developement, but they don't seem to realise that anyone crazy enough to buy a machine less than a month after release is probably a "developer". MS-DOS came with BASIC, but don't you think it's time we started to discourage bad habits like "poking in" machine dependent code, goto's, and "peek's"?!! Even PASCAL would be better than another hack of MS BASIC (Or are they reviving McPherson?)!! There are structured basic's such as BASIC-09 with incremental compilers, but then the prospect of OS-9 has occurred to everyone but ATARI. The developer's kit also included a lot of documentation that should have been included with the machine. Remember to manuals to the old APPLE ][, those things had everything but the source code to APPLESOFT in it. I have a few old CP/M manuals that were as big as a telephone book (SUPERBRAIN). The 4000 page manual could have been broken up (How much of that is EMACS,MINCE, KERMIT...) and at least things like "hitchiker's guide to the BIOS", hardware, VDI, and BDOS documentation could have been provided. With reduction, proper binding, and a little imagination, a manual with the "meat" could have been included or sold for less than $40. Support for the ST is also a new approach. Depending on Atari user's groups is a very good idea. ACORN (the rochester group) meets once a month, has no bulletin board, and those with developement kits are bound by "Non-disclosure" agreements not to allow even reproduction of the general documentation. The one member without a developer's kit couldn't even get a copy of KERMIT!!. What am I supposed to do if it breaks, wait until the next user's group meeting? I hope that Atari can come up with a NATIONAL BBS, for direct question and answer sessions with other users. One of the Atari dealers in Rochester has already done this. He's even considering shareware over the phone, too bad some people can't load it. The 800 has always been a "cult machine", anybody who owned one and wrote any software at all, got so familiar with the GTIA concept, they could program it like a second processor (GTIA has now moved to Commodore). Let's hope that kind of expertise can develope for the ST. Even purchasing "Presenting The ATARI ST" didn't provide any real insight into the real POWER the machine has. In fact, it is even inaccurate in MANY places. I like the machine, and will probably buy one, but I hope that this "Bumpy Start" is not the shape of things to come!