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From: slb@drutx.UUCP (Sue Brezden)
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: Re: FRP games--a work of the devil...:-(:
Message-ID: <103@drutx.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 1-Oct-85 15:28:01 EDT
Article-I.D.: drutx.103
Posted: Tue Oct  1 15:28:01 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 3-Oct-85 05:14:26 EDT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
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I wasn't sure whether to mail or post this.  The whole topic may belong
in net.religion.  And it's a bit longish.  But what the heck.  This 
newsgroup is fairly quiet compared to some others.

jordan@noscvax.UUCP (Martin C. Jordan) writes:

>        If, in the course of a D&D game, the DM starts handing out spells
>which have been in the past, or are currently being used by certain
>religious groups (i.e. Satanists, Voo-Doo, etc.), the
>play ceases to be fantasy and becomes reality no matter what your own
>personal religious beliefs are. By reality I mean that someone once or
>still takes them seriously.

Your definition of reality is interesting.  The reason I say it is
interesting is that it does not seem very Christian to me.

You seem to be saying that reality is anything anyone believes.
Sounds like Buddhism to me.  Reality is just that because it's all 
Void, anyway.  For instance, in some meditation practices, one concentrates 
on the diety, actually making it real to the meditator.  The real point of
the practice, however, is to show that all is Void--the diety included.
In one sense, dieties do not exist, in another, they are as real as you or I.

I thought that Christians did not believe other gods exist.  You
seem to be saying they do.  Seems to me you can't have it both ways.  Either 
the gods and magic exist (in some sense, perhaps as in Buddhism above), and
you should join us pagans, or they don't, and you don't need to worry
about them in your campaign, because they are fantasy.  If they do not
exist, then your choices are "something else" i.e. a Christian god, the
Tao etc., or atheism (Note: not a complete list of choices.)  Instead, you say 
they exist, but you are still a Christian.

>        Atheists, who by definition have no belief in dieties, can 
>consider all gods and "spells" to be fantasy and have no trouble dealing
>with them. A Christian, on the other hand, believes in the power of Satan
>and should not deal with such matters. The line between fantasy and
>reality can get very fine here. 

A couple of remarks.  First, not all Christians believe in "the power 
of Satan."   Secondly, I don't think every element in a game has to be
complete fantasy to give people no trouble dealing with it.  For instance,
I know hitting someone with a sword HURTS them.  I am a very non-violent
person.  But I don't have any trouble saying "I run up and hit him with
my sword."  That is an example of a non-fantasy element, in fact something
very serious to me, that I can put in a fantasy setting.

"But religion is different," I hear you say.  Not really.  How about an 
example? I DM a campaign in the Indian mythos.  In that campaign, Shiva
is a lawful evil god.  Now, I worship Lord Shiva, seriously.  I know that
he is not lawful evil.  But I made him lawful evil in the campaign 
because I needed a lawful evil diety, and because his aspect as the
Destroyer meshes nicely with the campaign.  I know he has other
aspects, and that even the Destroyer is actually benign in a sense, but in my
fantasy world he is the enemy.  (Or one of the enemies, to be more
precise.)  I am playing with my beliefs.  Likewise, if and when people 
reach the part of my world that is Chinese mythos, I will not hesitate 
to use Kuan Yin, my other major diety.

I don't have any trouble saying "This is a game."  As a matter of fact,
it seems quite important to me to step back and play with my beliefs--to
laugh at them, in fact.  So, I don't understand why you have such 
difficulties.  Who cares what you believe in a game?

>From the Christian perspective, it becomes
>easy for a game to become serious business.

That may be Christianity's whole problem, at least in my mind--it becomes
easy for EVERYTHING to become serious business.  Reality is just Maya's 
play, after all.  I've always thought that if there is something you can't 
laugh at and play with, then that is something that is a problem to you, 
not a help. (And yes, it happens to me all the time, and yes, I think
it is serious business. :-))

>This I do know, me and a 
>whole lot of other Christian fundamentalists have been able to reconcile
>differences and have lots of fun. 

I don't really see how you have reconciled anything.  But I'm glad you're 
having fun.  Glad you play.

-- 

                                     Sue Brezden
                                     
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        Your god may be dead, but mine aren't.
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