Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site uwmacc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo From: demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Sunny's comments and opposition to assertive women Message-ID: <1420@uwmacc.UUCP> Date: Sat, 24-Aug-85 01:49:17 EDT Article-I.D.: uwmacc.1420 Posted: Sat Aug 24 01:49:17 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 26-Aug-85 01:02:55 EDT References: <2683@amdcad.UUCP> Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center Lines: 71 > I don't think that some of the inappropriately sarcastic and > rejecting responses to Sunny's observations are necessarily > due to Sunny's life experience. There are some men who are > very hostile to any woman who presents herself in a self-assured, > competent and non-deferential manner. And there are some women who do same...as a matter of fact, I object to men who behave as pompous asses as much as I object to women who behave as pompous asses... > Women are expected to > speak with different (less self confident and assertive) > speech patterns than men, and they are never supposed to > engage in head-on intellectual debate with a man. This, unfortunately, is sad, but true in some cases. I have seen many cases of men who feel that women who don't say "yes sir" to everything are "too aggressive." There are also women, however, that believe the same thing.... > As Sunny experiences more and more of > womanhood I suspect that she will experience more and more > of this phenomena from some individuals. And this statement houses the crux of my objects to Sunny boisterously proclaiming "the voice of experience." Sunny was not born a woman, she did not grow up a woman (although she may have felt that she wanted to), she spent her earlier years growing up as a man. This cannot be erased... I'm amazed that women out there weren't offended by Sunny's claims that she "knows what its like to be a woman." (Anyone ever read "Black Like Me"?) Pumping yourself up with hormones, and assuming the personna of someone of the opposite gender does not give you the right to proclaim "womanhood." (A little drug alteration never hurt anybody, eh?) I have no objection to the concept of a member of one sex, feeling uncomfortable with his/her sex, taking "modern" advantages to alter his/her biology to the opposite gender...but that is a far cry from being that gender. ...and while I'm ranting and raving, let me voice another complaint: what is the problem with this newsgroup? If a man says something: a woman points a finger, if a woman says something, a man points a finger. What's with the man vs. woman stuff? I joined this newsgroup because I thought it would give me an opportunity as a man to: (a) hear life from a woman's point of view and (b) hear what other men feel about what's happening from the woman's point of view. I'm not sure I expressed all that quite right, but I sure am disappointed... -- --- Rob DeMillo Madison Academic Computer Center ...seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo "...That's enough, that's enough! Television's takin' its toll. Turn it off, turn it off! Give me the remote control! I've been nice! I've been good! Please don't do this to me! I've been nice, turn it off, I don't wanna hav'ta see... ...'The Brady Bunch!'"