Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site mit-vax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!think!mit-eddie!mit-vax!oaf From: oaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: The Value of Chutzpa Message-ID: <604@mit-vax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Aug-85 21:17:28 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-vax.604 Posted: Mon Aug 12 21:17:28 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Aug-85 08:40:08 EDT Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA Lines: 83 Summary: sometimes the simplest solution... Jane Caputo writes very nicely: I hope my partial parsing isn't too vandalistic. (Most uses of "I" below refer to the generic me.) > If you want to know what turns women on, ask them. ---------------------------------------- "Not so easy. How do I approach the woman to ask?" But look at the Zen in her words: If I can reach into myself to overcome fear of rejection and tendency to talk-without-listening, and ask sincerely without trying to bullshit or impress her, that's most of the battle right there, no? If the answer is "I like tall, dark, rich, handsome and athletic, and you're short, sallow, homely, poor and a klutz; bug off, creep," it's not the answer I want, but it gives me valuable information. But it's not that easy. I may have to create the context in which that question could be considered sincere, since no woman I know would trust someone who popped it out of the blue. So I guess that involves being friends before asking for dates. Awww... > I know we keep harping on that, but men in this group keep > trying to speak for us. ---------------------------------------- Well they might, if they're trying to gain acceptance for THEIR methods and heuristics, finding a means to score more often, or an excuse that the woman's messed up if they don't. In other words, if they're selling their own egos on net.singles. (Naah, nobody's that crass.) > When I was very young and sadly lacking in empathy, I > considered it sort of a social responsibility to put down > men who considered themselves god's gift to women. ---------------------------------------- Why "sadly?" Some things have to be driven home with sledgehammers... > What a woman is attracted to has far more to do with her > childhood than any objective facts you could derive through > cocktail party chatter: the dynamics of her relationship > with her father and other male images she absorbed at an > early age. ---------------------------------------- Not if the "chatter" investigates her background. Doesn't that come out when people start openly wondering how you got that way? I often find myself asking embarrassing questions, except the respondent doesn't seem unhappy to be asked. [Examples on request -- privately.] May I also conclude that asking questions and showing an interest in who you're talking to is more sensitive and more productive (take that how you will) than parading your virtues and strutting your stuff? Very often, I notice men trying to talk women into bed: They go on and on about themselves, babbling away as if they're justifying their existence: They tell her what great businessmen they are, how intelligent they are, how well they play racquetball or what their golf handicap is, how much they paid for their last whatever. Beats me how they expect their listeners to want to associate with someone so self-centered. Today when I go to a party the men I'm interested in are conveniently in a corner, engrossed in some technical discussion. ---------------------------------------- I see that syndrome at "gatherings" of whatever description. (Luckily, I'm not interested in those men.) > (But) if you want "somebody special", then the best thing > you can do is learn to telegraph what you really are. First, learn what you really are. Big step.... > Be open about yourself. NO. Anything but that! > Make sure your public image matches your private one as > closely as possible, ... Not on your life! I have enough troubles. Anyway, the guy who said "To thine own self be true" was Polonius, and look what happened to him. > If you feel the real you is too boring to attract anyone, > think again. ---------------------------------------- Hey, _I've_ led the long and spectacularly boring life, I oughta know. Let's talk about you, instead :-). [Just being oafish. What a convenient name...] Bye, all. -- Oded Feingold {decvax, harvard, mit-eddie}!mitvax!oaf oaf%oz@mit-mc.ARPA MIT AI Laboratory 545 Tech Square Cambridge, Mass. 02139 617-253-8598