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From: levy@ttrdc.UUCP (Daniel R. Levy)
Newsgroups: net.med,net.cooks
Subject: Re: Hostile faddists
Message-ID: <379@ttrdc.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 24-Aug-85 00:56:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: ttrdc.379
Posted: Sat Aug 24 00:56:04 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 03:15:55 EDT
References: <652@mit-vax.UUCP> <2071@ukma.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T, Computer Systems Division, Skokie, IL
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In article <2071@ukma.UUCP>, wws@ukma.UUCP (Bill Stoll) writes:

>As soon
>as I hear a better, or simpler, explanation for the observed behavior
>of the National Cancer Organizations, I will continue to agree with
>Tom Stanions.  That is quite a statement for an MD who used to do
>spots on the media for the Cancer Society fund raisers.
>
A Freudian slip, maybe?  As SOON as you hear .... (not, "until")?

>As I have grown in knowledge and understanding of how "the system"
>works, I have become less and less confused about why these
>organizations do some of the things they do.  If I needed any more
>convincing, my doubts would have been laid to rest last year when the
>National Cancer Society had to be forced by the courts, through a suit
>by several consumer advocacy groups, to release the information they
>had blocked (for the past ten years) regarding the relationship
>between diet and cancer.  Nutritional biochemists, epidemiologists,
>

I have before me a little leaflet from the American Cancer Society,
which was given to me by my kind neighbor who was collecting donations
for that worthy (yeah, WORTHY) cause.  The cover of the leaflet says,
"What's Red, Juicy, Skinny, Sweet, Green, Funny-Looking, Crunchy, and
Just Might Prevent Cancer?"  Inside is a mini-discourse on food, mentioning
the groups associated with lowest risk of cancer (dark green and deep yellow
vegetables, high-vitamin A foods, high-vitamin C foods, fiber, and for good-
ness sake, remember fat is a no-no).  Some cover-up.  Have you seen this
leaflet, Dr. Stoll?

>I would be interested in knowing how long Tom Stanions has been
>"casting pearls--" while intelligent people have been laughing instead
>of listening.
>
Yes, the laughers are intelligent people--you said it.  (Freudian slip?)

>The same mechanism exists in the "Disease Insurance Industry".  They
>make money on the basis of how much they pay out.  They simply
>increase their premiums based on their expenditures.  There is no
>incentive for medical insurance companies to try to reduce medical
>costs.  Current statistics indicate that the Holistic Medical Model
>would reduce the medical expenses in this country by at least 50%.
>What would happen to any insurance company that had to cut their
>premiums by 50%?  Their staff would have to be cut.  Their buildings
>would have to be reduced.  Their influence would be lessened.  There

Sounds pretty vaporous to me.  What statistics?  Published where?
Calculated by whom?  (Please reply to net.)  

Sure, not everything the Holistic Model (whatever flavor, there are several
flavors) says is all bull.  There's a lot of common sense in SOME (not all)
of the theories.  If everybody followed the commonsense health rules (no
smoking, very moderate drinking if at all, watch your diet, get some regular
exercise) which are among those pushed in most holistic medicines, that would
of course make the illness rate plummet.  Not everybody does this, or is wil-
ling to play along, whether or not their physician is holistic.  Lots of folks
refuse to follow any doctor's advice.  If every doctor in the United States
were "holistic," would people follow doctors' orders any better?  Methinks
the jury is out still on this one....

As for the fate of health (or "disease," if you wish, just like life insurance
is really "death" insurance) insurance were health costs to fall, you put
forth a fallacy.  The well-being of the health insurance people are not from
gross premiums--they are from profits, which are the difference between what
they get and what they pay out, less of course taxes, salaries, and other
miscellaneous overhead.  So if their payout costs fell (for whatever reason,
maybe a miraculous overall cancer cure by the "coverup" scientists?) and the
premiums were cut likewise (which they wouldn't HAVE to do, but might in order
to sell at a more attractive rate, now that it was possible) what would that
say about profits?  Nothing.  Profits are not necessarily restricted to X
percent of gross; it's a market-determined thing.

>At least
>HMOs are finally filling in the gap where the special interests of
>companies like Blue Cross have failed.  You see, HMOs make more money
>the healthier you are.  The regular system makes more money the sicker
>you are.  Which system do you trust?
>
When I joined AT&T Teletype Corporation (now AT&T Computer Systems Division,
Skokie) in 1984, among the things I was supposed to do was to choose a health
plan if I wanted one, which choice was from a conventional health insurance
plan or several HMO-type organizations.  As I remember, I was told that they
had not had a good experience with the HMOs, but that I was free to choose,
and that they would chip in an amount of money each month equivalent to the
cost of the conventional health plan toward the HMO if I chose one.
(The HMOs were all higher priced than the conventional plan.)  I gave a fair
amount of thought to the HMO idea, but chose the conventional plan (the most
convenient thing being that I could choose whatever doctor I wished, even a
"holistic" one :-)).  (Not that HMOs are ipso facto "holistic.")

I am indeed a little leery of the HMO idea for the reason that since they are
under pressure to minimize their cost, one might get rather skimpy treatment
and/or simply be ignored for some complaints.  And as I alluded to above, one
is locked into a certain set of physicians to be covered by the HMO.  With
the other kind of plan one can shop around--give me that freedom any day.

>cbosgd!ukma!wws
>
>--
>Walt Stoll, MD, ABFP
>Founder, & Medical Director
>Holistic Medical Centre
>1412 N. Broadway
>Lexington, Kentucky  40505

P.S.  I originally hail from the same city.  I've never seen this guy, but
I have come across a few other wierdos passing as MDs in Lexington (mostly
at University of Kentucky, including one which told me to commit suicide-
NO kidding).
-- 
 -------------------------------    Disclaimer:  The views contained herein are
|       dan levy | yvel nad      |  my own and are not at all those of my em-
|         an engihacker @        |  ployer, my pets, my plants, my boss, or the
| at&t computer systems division |  s.a. of any computer upon which I may hack.
|        skokie, illinois        |
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