Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihuxf.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxf!features From: features@ihuxf.UUCP (aMAZon) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: men dominate net.women (flame-ish) Message-ID: <2668@ihuxf.UUCP> Date: Mon, 19-Aug-85 13:25:41 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxf.2668 Posted: Mon Aug 19 13:25:41 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 20-Aug-85 22:23:51 EDT References: <175@drutx.UUCP> <231@whuts.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 66 Andy Cohill {ihnp4|allegra}houxm!whuxl!whuts!amc writes: > > Out of one side of your mouth you waiving the flag for equal > treatment, freedom to compete with men, more power for women, etc., > and out of the other side you seem to be saying that you women just > don't have what it takes to "dominate" this forum, so we men should > "let" you dominate it.... > > If you want power, you have to make it. Yourself. Or in concert with > other people who feel the way you do. You do *not* get it by asking > others to give it to you, which is what you are suggesting here. If > you have to ask for it, you don't deserve it. > > The only reason net.women is not dominated by women is because the > women don't post articles--you admit this yourself. If you want to > change the topic to breast cancer, don't ask the men to do it for > you, do it yourself. Get all the women that you know to post an > article about it along with you. > Andy, Just where have you been for the last 300 or so years? You talk about taking power, not asking for it. You talk about working in concert with others who share the same concerns. May I give you a historical perspective? Margaret Brent, ca. 1650, demanded the right to vote on the grounds that she was the trustee for her childrens' estate, and, as a property holder, she should be able to vote. She was denied. Abigail Adams, 1775, who informed her husband that the women of America were not to be treated as inferiors. Lucy Stone, 1840, who defied society's conventions and refused to take her husband's name when they married. (Both she and Henry Blackwell must've been pretty neat people!) The attendants at the 1848 convention in Seneca Falls, New York, where they agreed that Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness were to be inalianable rights for men *and women*. Susan Anthony, who was thrown in jail for trying to vote in 1870. Margaret Sanger, who was thrown in jail for giving contraceptive information to poor women. Margaret Mead, who went off to Samoa and learned much from the people she lived with; although she didn't do things quite in the ordinary or expected way. What about the American Woman Suffrage League? The League of Women Voters? The National Organization for Women? etc. etc. etc. It may be true that there are more men posting in net.women. I think it's true that there are more men on the network, period. And I normally keep my comments to private mail or short submissions. But this lack of perspective (blame the victim syndrome again) was too much to let pass by without some kind of response. Angelina Grimke said that she would happily do the work that men do, provided that "our brothers take their feet from our necks and allow us to stand up and occupy the space God meant us to." Not a whole lot has changed in the 140 years since she said it. I guess we have to follow Mother Jones' advice: "Whatever your fight, don't be ladylike" and keep hope going with that slogan from Anthony's paper, The Revolution: "Men, their rights and nothing more; women, their rights and nothing less." -- aMAZon @ AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL; ihnp4!ihuxf!features