Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!decwrl!decvax!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards Subject: Re: Accusing Bell of NIH (formerly Re: useless digest reference) Message-ID: <651@psivax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 14-Aug-85 11:30:03 EDT Article-I.D.: psivax.651 Posted: Wed Aug 14 11:30:03 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 20-Aug-85 01:42:19 EDT References: <64@brl-tgr.ARPA> <311@baylor.UUCP> <120@desint.UUCP> <277@kitty.UUCP> Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Lines: 34 In article <277@kitty.UUCP> peter@kitty.UUCP (Peter DaSilva) writes: > >> (3) The USG TTY driver is a clean, orthogonal design that is easy to get to >> do what you want. You've never seen a posting of "how do I get an 8-bit >> data path with ^S/^Q flow control" (needed for many laser printers) for USG >> because it's so easy. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet for the future. > >Now that I've found the well-hidden documentation on the USG driver I have to >agree it's orthogonal. Overloading EOF and QUIT as MIN and TIME was a bad >mistake, since it makes the intuitive transform between V7 and relatives and >SIII and relatives a total loss... and adds extra stuff you have to save >and restore when changing modes. > Is this why the default values for MIN and TIME are not a sane 1 and 0 like they should be!?!? Really, while orthoganality and flexibility are fine goals, so is *simplicity* of *use*. From what I have seen the Sys3/5 ioctl system is a real pain to use correctly. In breking out the various operations the designers seem to have forgotten the principle of leaving the most common operations *simple*, that is such frequent transitions as turning CR mode on or off, or going to single character input should be *atomic* operations. The only really simple improvement was the OPOST idea, which Berkeley has implimented as LLITOUT! Maybe I should get the ioctl system I designed few years ago and post an outline of it to the net!(It is of course unimplemented). Gee, what a choice, the inflxibility of V7 ioctl or the overweaning complexity of Sys3/5 ioctl! Someone *please* implement a rational system. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen