Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site lanl.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!think!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!lanl!wkp From: wkp@lanl.ARPA Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Re: Dvar Torah Project returns Message-ID: <29767@lanl.ARPA> Date: Fri, 16-Aug-85 12:46:47 EDT Article-I.D.: lanl.29767 Posted: Fri Aug 16 12:46:47 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 21-Aug-85 06:20:14 EDT References: <148@erc3ba.UUCP> <263@sesame.UUCP> <1857@aecom.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory Lines: 37 > I heard in jewish history class a few years ago, that HIP stands for > Jeusalem is subjugated ( or something similar ) and that it was the Romans > victory cheer upon returning to Rome. Hardly a phrase to be used by Jews. > Eliyahu Teitz. References? Let's not scold someone else publicly until we make an attempt to investigate the etymological or philological sources. The word "hip" appears to be from Old English, where there are many variants of the word [Oxford English Dictionary], but the use of the exclamatory "hip" as in "hip-hip-horay" has an UNKNOWN etymology [e.g., Webster's 3rd international dictionary]. In addition, none of the Romance languages have this form, thereby indicating a non- Roman origin. According to Roman historians, the Roman soldiers came into Rome shouting "Iudaea capta!" [Judaea is conquered!]. This phrase was also coined on Roman coinage of that period. A misunderstanding might have arisen from the fact that many captive Jews died in the Roman "hippodrome". But in this case, the word has a Greek origin (ippo=horse, dromos=course) which is why many horse and chariot races were conducted in these ampitheatres. Another possibility is that the Roman greeting "eho, heus!" which Roman soldiers may have used upon returning to their friends may have been translated in some very old English books as "Hip!" which is equivalent to the modern English "Hey!" In any case, there is no evidence for Eliyahu's contention, and I believe that Jews can use the phrase "hip-hip-horay" with impunity. -- bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp