Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/12/84; site aero.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!aero!warack From: warack@aero.ARPA (Chris Warack ) Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: What is morality anyways? Message-ID: <377@aero.ARPA> Date: Mon, 19-Aug-85 20:55:22 EDT Article-I.D.: aero.377 Posted: Mon Aug 19 20:55:22 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 04:53:14 EDT References: <341@aero.UUCP> <27500097@ISM780B.UUCP> Reply-To: warack@aero.UUCP (Chris Warack (5734)) Organization: The Aerospace Corp., El Segundo, CA Lines: 73 Summary: >[wingate] >But I think that's the whole point. If I'm walking down the street, and I >want an ice cream cone, so I buy one: do we really care about that as a >moral dilemma? It seems to me that you can't be talking about morality in >any meaningful way until you are dealing with conflicting wants. To simply >define morality as "that which tells us what to do" is plainly wrong to me. >There are a number of different reasons why we decide things. We can do it >on the basis of simple desires, as in the above case. We can reason out a >course of action. But it seems to me that most everyone acknoledges the >existence of a faculty called the conscience, which only acts to forbid a >desire from being acted out. There are plenty of instances where morality plays a role that doesn't involve conflicts or dilemmas. You're talking about the hard cases. The simple cases are much more common. BTW, there's a guy I know who doesn't feel it is right to lock cows up in barns all their life hooked to machines. He'd give you a dirty look, because he sees that ice cream cone as contributing toward the perpetuation of that wrong. You've ascribed to the conscience the role of determining what should or should not be acted out. I ascribe this to a moral decision. I don't really see a conflict. I see the conscience as the 'machine' that implements morality. So I think we are talking about a rose by any other name... >[balter] >Excuse me if I didn't make it clearer that morality is "that which tells us >what to do" *if there are reasonably competing alternatives*; I would think >that was obvious. If there is no conflict, then there is no issue of >decision. Aside from all the possible political issues involved, some >persons consider the self-indulgence of eating an ice cream cone as a >moral issue. If two people are walking down the sidewalk and want to >take off their clothes and make love, do we really care about that as a >moral dilemma? It wouldn't bother me any more than my eating an ice cream >cone bothers you; we have different moral perspectives. I consider eating >ice cream in public as setting a very destructive example for children; >how does this differ from many people's attitudes toward public sex? >(one answer: they want to legislate against it) >You don't seem to be able to escape from the belief that *your* >moral views are *universal*. How does a person act when confronted with a moral dilemma? That is when nothing he can do is moral by his standards. How does a person act when his actions will conflict with another's morals? These situations can be dealt with differently by different people. Basically, they are covered by other 'morals.' One person may feel that an immoral act in the face of a moral dilemma is acceptable. That person in retrospect may see a way he could have done better. He may feel guilty about not finding that at the time, or he may feel that he did the right thing at the time and chalk it up to experience. These are just differing moralities. The diffence between these hard moral issues and the more common simple moral issues is that the morals involved in hard issues are dealing not only with actions but with the morality of actions. They might be called meta-morals [semi :-)], but really they are no different than any other moral just 'higher level.' I've talked enough for now ... :-) For your consideration, -- _______ |/-----\| Chris Warack (213) 648-6617 ||hello|| || || warack@aerospace.ARPA |-------| warack@aero.UUCP |@ ___ | seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!ittatc!dcdwest! |_______| sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!aero!warack || || \ Aerospace Corporation, M1-117, El Segundo, CA 90245 ^^^ ^^^ `---------(|=