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From: tdn@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA (Thomas Newton)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: Suffering
Message-ID: <428@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 13-Aug-85 20:52:46 EDT
Article-I.D.: cmu-cs-s.428
Posted: Tue Aug 13 20:52:46 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 15-Aug-85 08:36:40 EDT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 37

> > I suppose comments could be made about many "pro-choicers" whose attitude
> > is "copulate and make the baby suffer".  But if 'suffering' results from
> > an activity, who should bear its costs:  the people who decided to engage
> > in that activity, or another person who didn't exist before the start of
> > the activity and therefore had no control over it?
> > 
> >                                         -- Thomas Newton

> The problem with your line of reasonnning is that you assume that things are
> binary: either the parents suffer or the child suffers.  I think it is
> probably fair to say that no matter what, in this business of unwanted
> children, children suffer.  If they are aborted, they suffer some physical
> pain for a short while;  if they are brought up by parents who hate them,
> they suffer for most of their childhood;  if they are given up for adoption,
> there's a fair chance that they might suffer some trauma as a result 
> (although this is not as clear cut as the other kinds of suffering). 
> But the parents (mother actually) usually suffer too except in the case of
> early abortions.  When you have unwanted pregnancies, there is a fair chance
> that both the mother and the child will end up suffering.  So what's your
> point?
> --
> Sophie Quigley

First of all, I don't see how you can claim that the children always suffer.
There's always the alternative of adoption.  Speaking from personal experience,
I can definitely say that adopted children don't always suffer trauma -- both
my sister and I were adopted and that fact has never meant a thing to either
one of us.  Considering the screening process, I wouldn't be surprised at all
if adopted children got better homes on average than wanted natural children.

Secondly, you can't assume that everyone who undergoes suffering wants to curl
up and die.  A lot of times, when faced with adversity, people get stronger in
order to cope with it.  Who are you to tell someone, "I've decided that you're
going to suffer unless I kill you now, so I'm going to kill you now"?

                                        -- Thomas Newton
                                           Thomas.Newton@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA