Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ttidcc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: self-actualization Message-ID: <671@ttidcc.UUCP> Date: Tue, 13-Aug-85 15:07:28 EDT Article-I.D.: ttidcc.671 Posted: Tue Aug 13 15:07:28 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Aug-85 23:46:37 EDT References: <1744@reed.UUCP> <621@ttidcc.UUCP> <1680@hao.UUCP> <313@tove.UUCP> <1690@hao.UUCP> Reply-To: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) Organization: The Cat Factory Lines: 105 Summary: In article <1690@hao.UUCP> woods@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods) writes: >> >... The Lifespring course, and other awareness training courses, are >> >designed for people whose lives basically work, but somehow know they >> >could have it better than they do ... >> >> So is therapy. > > That's not what I learned when I was a Psych major in college. Therapy is >for treating things defined as "disorders" or, in extreme cases, "diseases". I don't know when or where you were a Psych major, but, as of 5 years ago at least, this idea was considered old fashioned at best and outright counter-productive at worst. (5 years ago is when I completed my Master's in Community/Clinical Psychology at CSU, Northridge). "Personal growth" is a very common reason for seeing a therapist. One need not be suicidally depressed or murderously paranoid to want to explore past the boundaries of one's everyday thought patterns. Such exploration can't be done in a room with several hundred other people, though small groups can be useful. In fact, it is the seminars like est and Lifespring that explicitly offer to show people how to make their lives better (with the implicit assumption that their lives need improving or they wouldn't be there). > To each their own. If therapy works for them, great. A lot of it, of course, >has to do with your expectations. If you expect therapy to work for you, >then it probably will, no matter what your "problem" is. Sadly, not true. Many people enter therapy with unrealistic expectations of what it "should" be like and what they're going to get out of it. Usually one of the first things a therapist has to do is educate their client as to what therapy really is and how the process works. A lot of people quit right then or shortly thereafter when they find out the kind of hard, painfull work they're expected to do. >> In my opinion, many people go into groups like Lifespring with expectations >> of achieving some of the growth that they might achieve in therapy--but with >> hopes of avoiding the stigma that some people (apparently including you!) >> associate with therapy. > > Expectations, expectations. Much pain in this world is caused by comparing >expectations to reality. It is this comparison that causes the damage, not >Lifespring or bad therapists.... I think this is the Lifespring "line" as it were. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but you might at least label it as such, given the nature of the discussion. >I associate no stigma with therapy. Being sick happens to all of us >and is not a "bad" thing, whether physical or psychological in origin. It is >a fact of life that illness happens. See my remarks about personal growth therapy. The concept that anyone who needs or wants therapy must be "sick" stems from the obsolete medical model of psychotherapy. By labeling someone "sick" because they're in therapy you let them in for all kinds of social stigma even if you personally claim not to attatch any. (The very fact that you refer to such people as "sick" would seem to indicate otherwise). There is also the implicit assumption that the therapist is responsible for "curing" the client of their "sickness", just as medical doctors are responsible for their patients' cures. This gives a completely false picture of how psychotherapy works and leads to unrealistic expectations and disappointment. >In the case of Lifespring, there is no "advertising" at all, except through >word-of-mouth from those who graduated from the course and felt that it was >sufficiently valuable for them that they want to encourage those they care >about to have that experience too. I haven't come across any advertisments for Lifespring that I recall. On the other hand est used to advertise fairly extensively and the Scientologists have been known to stand on street corners and, almost literally, drag people in their door for an introductory session (they tried this on me several times). > ... I'm sure some people (particularly >those who have strong negative beliefs about awareness trainings) would not >get much out of a Lifespring-like course. But *I* happen to know lots >of people who benefitted more from Lifespring than they did from previous >therapy, so it just goes to show that it can go either way depending on the >person. All very true. In fact, some people go into such courses with negative attitudes and derive benefits anyway. Different people have different needs. I can think of very few people to whom I'd recommend the kind of therapy I've been through (a mixture of Neo-reichian and Perls Gestalt). It did me a lot of good, but I also saw some people run out of group sessions because they couldn't tolerate the levels of emotion being expressed by others. Some people can't even handle a few gentle Rogerian sessions. Others have turned their lives around after attending an est or Lifespring weekend. There are many paths up the mountain. To get back to what started this whole discussion, several articles ago, I don't necessarily disapprove of Lifespring per se. My disapproval is aimed at those programs which do little or no screening and/or have no professional staff standing by to handle psychological emergencies. I don't know whether Lifespring is one of these or not. -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI Common Sense is what tells you that a ten 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. pound weight falls ten times as fast as a Santa Monica, CA 90405 one pound weight. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe