Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site randvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!randvax!edhall From: edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Rape - Another Solution Message-ID: <2652@randvax.UUCP> Date: Sun, 18-Aug-85 16:24:16 EDT Article-I.D.: randvax.2652 Posted: Sun Aug 18 16:24:16 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 05:48:07 EDT References: <2402@amdcad.UUCP> <209@bcsaic.UUCP> Reply-To: edhall@rand-unix.UUCP (Ed Hall) Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica Lines: 52 Keywords: violence, art, culture Summary: Natural violence is NOT the same as intentional violence In article <209@bcsaic.UUCP> shebs@bcsaic.UUCP (stan shebs) writes: >In article <2402@amdcad.UUCP> linda@amdcad.UUCP (Linda Seltzer) writes: >> >>This is not a complete solution, but I think it would help. >>Right now most of us economically support a culture of violence. >>... >>In spite of all rationalizations, violence is our art and our culture. > >I find it interesting that violence does seem to be an important >part of our civilization. ...perhaps "violence" is an integral part >of human character. I know of no solid proof for or against, >although there's much flimsy evidence (some primitive cultures >seem to be nonviolent, but they generally are found in hostile >environments - violence comes from outside rather than inside). Let's define our terms, here. There is a rather large difference between someone intentionally splitting your head open with a rock, and being hit on the head by a meteor; let's not confuse the random violence of nature with the intentful violence of human beings. >... I would >not want to eliminate the violence of Beethoven's Fifth or Ninth (or >even parts of the Sixth). If everything in life were reduced to >the bloodlessness of Devienne's or Haydn's music, there would be >little to distinguish it from death... This ``violence'' is a metaphor. I don't see the cellists bashing the violists with their instruments; on the other hand, movies attempt to portray violence much worse than this, as sensationalistically as possible, and neither as metaphor nor in a larger dramatic context. The difference between the violence in a slasher film and that to be found in serious art isn't just a matter of degree; in the former the plot becomes merely an excuse for embedding violent scenes. Art become secondary. > ... I'm suggesting that training everyone to be nonviolent >might be another one of those cures that is worse than the disease. >It might be extraordinarily risky even to experiment with; if violence >*is* linked to creativity, extinction of violence would be irreversible... I don't think we'll ever eliminate unintentional violence, no matter how far technology advances. And there will always be conflict and tension--things that I would agree are essential ingredients in much of artistic creation. But *intentional* violence--the *willful* injury of one human being by another--was, is, and always will be destructive to society and to the individual, and is quite worthy of our attempts at eradication. > stan shebs -Ed Hall decvax!randvax!edhall