Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site mit-vax.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-vax!oaf From: oaf@mit-vax.UUCP (Oded Feingold) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Make vs. Rape Message-ID: <587@mit-vax.UUCP> Date: Fri, 9-Aug-85 16:53:48 EDT Article-I.D.: mit-vax.587 Posted: Fri Aug 9 16:53:48 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 12-Aug-85 23:28:51 EDT Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA Lines: 38 Summary: Maybe there is a difference I think there's a difference, though they shade into each other at some undefined point. The examples below are tentative and idiosyncratic. They're intended to make plausible the case for claiming such a difference exists, not nail it down. "Make:" Wheedling, begging, threats of withholding future attention/affection/support/whatever. "I'll be so hurt and my balls will ache and I won't get any sleep tonight and be miserable all day tomorrow if you say no." "If you can't even share your body with me you're not worth my time, let alone the price of dinner." Implies a continuing relationship, however exploitive. In fact, the aggressor may like (or think he likes) the victim, but dominance and sexual satisfaction come first. [Is it okay to use "he" blithely in the preceding sentence?] "Rape:" Threat or actuality of violence, humiliation, physical force, etc. The only continuing relationship implied in such actions consists of future depredations, with the victim unable to break the cycle. This works especially well on children, who might not comprehend there exists a justice system which considers such things actionable. Where they shade into each other: Power relationships - "We fuck or you lose your job." "We fuck or your husband doesn't get the job/funding/whatever." "If you won't sleep with me you can forget about getting a degree from this place." [Variants: "I'll give you a better grade." "I'll give your concert a better review."] "If you fuck me willingly we're still friends, but if not then I'm going to take what I want anyway. So which is it gonna be?" Naah, most of those are too crude. Maybe someone else can find a less clear-cut example. Comments? Here's one: I find this class of discussion ugly and depressing, but that's what net.women is for, presumably. If not, I'm sure I'll hear about it. -- Oded Feingold {decvax, harvard, mit-eddie}!mitvax!oaf oaf%oz@mit-mc.ARPA MIT AI Laboratory 545 Tech Square Cambridge, Mass. 02139 617-253-8598