Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site cbscc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!decwrl!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!cbosgd!cbsck!cbscc!pmd From: pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion Subject: Re: Islam (long but not propaganda) Message-ID: <5712@cbscc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 8-Aug-85 11:49:05 EDT Article-I.D.: cbscc.5712 Posted: Thu Aug 8 11:49:05 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 12-Aug-85 21:41:22 EDT References: <5690@cbscc.UUCP>, <1515@bbncca.ARPA> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Columbus Lines: 55 Xref: linus net.politics:9708 net.religion:6945 >Why are Camus & Sartre mentioned as sources of nazi ideology or ideas >for hitler's writings or speeches? Simple chronology makes it nearly >impossible. >hitler's "My Struggle" (Mein Kampf) was published in the 1920s; nazi >ideology was fully formed by the time they assumed power. Sartre >studied with Heidegger in 1938 for a year or so. Nearly all Sartre's >& Camus' writings date from the 1940s on. Only some unpolitical >philosophical essays (Sartre) & juvenilia & reviews (Camus) were >written in the 1930s. >... > Ron Rizzo I mentioned Nietzsche as the primary influence. Camus and Sartre were secondary. It's true that their part as sources is questionable. But the matter of influence isn't only a question of primary sources. There is also the aspect of support: what provided fuel for the fire once it has started or reflected conditions of the time that allowed Nazi ideology to bloom and hold sway? Hitler killed himself in April 1945. I would mark that as the end of the Third Reich. The reason I mentioned Camus and Sartre was because of Nietzsche's influence on them and that some of their philosophical ideas about the meaninglessness, purposelessness and futility of life were in print during the late 30's and early 40's (although they weren't translated into english until after wwII). The extent of help these ideas gave the Nazi's may be debated, but their usefullness as a reflection of the intellectual mood of the times is on more solid ground, I think. Ideas don't have to be expressly political to influence political action. That's part of the "fundamental ideology" thing that Mr. Martillo was talking about. Anyway, some of the works that were "floating around" were: Camus: L'etranger (The Stranger) 1942 Le myth de Sisyphe (The Myth of Sysphus [sp?]) 1943 Caligula (a play, wasn't published until 1945 but was written by Camus in 1938) Sartre: La Nausee (Nausea) 1938 L'Etre et le neant (Being and Nothingness) 1943 It's easy to see where the view of humanity reflected in these works could justify (apart from the authors intentions) the idea that human life is of no more significance than inanimate matter. If you believe that, then how you treat humans is left up to asthetics. For folks like Hitler and Mengele that apparently wasn't as formidable an obstruction as it was for Camus and Sartre themselves. -- Paul Dubuc cbscc!pmd