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From: gary@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (gary w buchholz)
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Reply to Paul Dubuc - Theology and its flight from the Church
Message-ID: <1035@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 22-Aug-85 05:45:19 EDT
Article-I.D.: sphinx.1035
Posted: Thu Aug 22 05:45:19 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 24-Aug-85 15:55:08 EDT
Organization: U. Chicago - Computation Center
Lines: 77

> = Paul Dubuc
>Gary likens the craft of theology to secular professions like law and
>medicine.  I suppose we should have a requirement that ministers be
>licensed by the state too?  Doctors and lawyers deal with fairly
>objective and technical goals with regard to their clients.
>Apparently Gary views the obtaining of knowledge of God in a similar
>light.  Could you describe that goal, Gary?  I don't think you'll get
>much help from Schleiermacher there...

I can get plenty of help from Schleiermacher as to the requirements for
a "licensed theologian".  In 1811 Schleiermacher published his "Brief
Outline on the Study of Theology" that would set the agenda for the
modern theological enterprise.  Schleiermacher considers theology a
science in every way.  

   "Theology is a positive science, whose parts join into a cohesive whole
    only through their common relation to a particular mode of faith,
    i.e., a particular way of being conscious of God.  Thus, the
    various parts of Christian theology belong together only by virtue
    of their relation to Christianity.  This is the sense in which the
    word 'theology' will always be used."

And what constitutes the science of theology ?
  
  "The whole of theological study is composed of this trilogy:
   philosophical theology, historical theology and practical
   theology."

Who are the theologians ?

  "If one could imagine both a religious interest and a scientific
   spirit conjoined in the highest degree and with the finest balance
   for the purpose of theoretical and practical activity alike, that 
   would be the idea of a 'prince of the Church'."

Now, I would wonder where Mr. Dubuc is going to get his education in
the trilogy of disciplines that Schleiermacher mentions in his "Brief
Outline" ?

Philosophical theology, historical theology, practical theology.  Does
Mr. Dubuc wish to imply that these are not "objective" disciplines of
study such as law and medicine - that they do not constitute
considerable and formidable bodies of knowledge ? 

Schleiermacher did not wish to imply that the preparation undertaken by
the theology student in philosophical theology was other than the study
of secular philosophy - or simply philosophy in the broadest sense of
the term.  Nor was historical theology other than the best critical
(secular) historiography.  As for practical theology, it was the
"crown of theological study" which stood under the proviso that "we
posit the planting and extension of the Christian Church as the object
of the divine government of the world." - No small task Mr. Dubuc !
Is that enough of a "goal" for you ?

Theology as a discipline in this contemporary world is much more
complex than Schleiermacher could imagine in 1811 when he wrote the
"Brief Outline".  It would be in the "spirit" of Schleiermacher to say
that, for the theologian, he must know the ancillary disciplines such
as philosophy and history as well as any professional secular
philosopher or secular historian - and this does not come easy.

I know of few Protestant denominations(Baptists) that will allow you to
become a pastor without a degree("license") from a seminary.  A
seminary education takes some 3-4 years of uninterrupted study.  If you
want to be a professional theologian and intend to make a positive
contribution to the field then your education will take considerably
longer - at which point you may *begin* serious theology.

Paul, you're removed from the "performance" about as much as the ticket
stub that is torn, discarded and left in that dark box at the entrance
to the theatre.  The "princes of the church" are on stage - they are
neither shut up in a box nor are they spectators.  Access to the stage
is much more than simply the price of ticket admission.  It requires a
great deal of hard work and, might I say, some talent.


  Gary