Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site uwmacc.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo
From: demillo@uwmacc.UUCP (Rob DeMillo)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Sunny's comments and opposition to assertive women
Message-ID: <1420@uwmacc.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 24-Aug-85 01:49:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: uwmacc.1420
Posted: Sat Aug 24 01:49:17 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 26-Aug-85 01:02:55 EDT
References: <2683@amdcad.UUCP>
Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center
Lines: 71

> I don't think that some of the inappropriately sarcastic and
> rejecting responses to Sunny's observations are necessarily
> due to Sunny's life experience.  There are some men who are
> very hostile to any woman who presents herself in a self-assured,
> competent and non-deferential manner.  

 And there are some women who do same...as a matter of fact, I object
to men who behave as pompous asses as much as I object to women
who behave as pompous asses...

> Women are expected to
> speak with different (less self confident and assertive)
> speech patterns than men, and they are never supposed to
> engage in head-on intellectual debate with a man.  

This, unfortunately, is sad, but true in some cases. I have seen
many cases of men who feel that women who don't say "yes sir" to
everything are "too aggressive." There are also women, however, that
believe the same thing....


>   As Sunny experiences more and more of
> womanhood I suspect that she will experience more and more
> of this phenomena from some individuals.  

And this statement houses the crux of my objects to Sunny 
boisterously proclaiming "the voice of experience." Sunny
was not born a woman, she did not grow up a woman (although
she may have felt that she wanted to), she spent her earlier
years growing up as a man. This cannot be erased...
I'm amazed that women out there weren't offended by Sunny's claims
that she "knows what its like to be a woman." (Anyone ever
read "Black Like Me"?)

Pumping yourself up with hormones, and assuming the personna of someone
of the opposite gender does not give you the right to proclaim
"womanhood." (A little drug alteration never hurt anybody, eh?)
I have no objection to the concept of a member of one sex, feeling
uncomfortable with his/her sex, taking "modern" advantages to 
alter his/her biology to the opposite gender...but that is a
far cry from being that gender. 

...and while I'm ranting and raving, let me voice another
complaint: what is the problem with this newsgroup? If a man 
says something: a woman points a finger, if a woman says something,
a man points a finger. What's with the man vs. woman stuff?

I joined this newsgroup because I thought it would give me an
opportunity as a man to: (a) hear life from a woman's point of
view and (b) hear what other men feel about what's happening 
from the woman's point of view. 

I'm not sure I expressed all that quite right, but I sure
am disappointed...


-- 
                           --- Rob DeMillo 
                               Madison Academic Computer Center
                               ...seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!demillo

 
	"...That's enough, that's enough!
	    Television's takin' its toll.
	    Turn it off, turn it off!
	    Give me the remote control!
	    I've been nice! I've been good!
	    Please don't do this to me!
	    I've been nice, turn it off,
	    I don't wanna hav'ta see...
		...'The Brady Bunch!'"