Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihu1m.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!ihu1m!jho From: jho@ihu1m.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Rosen, "bug off"! Message-ID: <615@ihu1m.UUCP> Date: Fri, 9-Aug-85 19:10:06 EDT Article-I.D.: ihu1m.615 Posted: Fri Aug 9 19:10:06 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 13-Aug-85 00:49:20 EDT References: <164@vilya.UUCP> <658@cvl.UUCP><39@unc.UUCP> <604@ihu1m.UUCP> <634@ttidcc.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 54 > In article <604@ihu1m.UUCP> jho@ihu1m.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) writes: > > Since the orthodox aim is to impose their religion > >on non-orthodox Jews, ... > >Do you expect us to be quiet, while the orthodox are trying to > >shove their religion (which we consider to be superstition) down our > >throats? > > BS.. that may be the aim of a minority of orthodox, but practically all of > the ones I run across don't care what other Jews believe or disbelieve. If one looks at the record of the religionists in Israel, one can observe a relentless effort of the orthodox to impose the religious law on the secular Jewish society. Examples of these efforts are: the imposition of the marital laws, the law to prevent the sale of pork and the the attempts to shut down movies on Friday evening. The former minister of religious affairs Dr. Zerach Varhaftig spelled out the religionist program of religious coercion in 1962. He said: ` According to the [Jewish] religious concept, every Jew is a religious Jew, the fact that he is a Jew makes him religious...' He then continues: `Every Jew has a Jewish spot, but his desires overpowers his mind. If the law comes and restricts his freedom to yield to his [negative] desires, his positive feelings will be awakened, and it will begin with coercion and end with a want.' ( t'chilato b'ones v'sofo b'ratzon) These quotes are taken from a special supplement to the Ha'aretz newspaper provided by the ministry of religious affairs in February, 1962. > Perhaps you should move to a different neighborhood. On the opposite foot, > Orthodox baiting has become a national sport in Israel. Many secular Jews > think its fun to purposely drive through Orthodox neighborhoods on Shabbos, It is regrettable that some secular Jews disturb the piece and quiet of religious Jews. Let us not forget that these acts are not mandated by the law, but rather perpetrated by mischievous individuals. > etc. Is this what you mean by not keeping quiet. Perhaps there's a > connection between your lack of respect for other people's belief's and > your lack of religion. [Paul Blumstein] Why you jump to the conclusion that I don't respect other people's beliefs. Not accepting a religious belief does not imply lack of respect to those who practice the religion. I don't scold you for believing, why do you scold me for a lack of belieef? It is quite clear that you have no respect for my belief/disbelief system! -- Yosi Hoshen, AT&T Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois, Mail: ihnp4!ihu1m!jho