Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site bbncca.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!bbncca!krossen From: krossen@bbncca.ARPA (Ken Rossen) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Innate Sexual Differences Message-ID: <1537@bbncca.ARPA> Date: Tue, 20-Aug-85 12:03:28 EDT Article-I.D.: bbncca.1537 Posted: Tue Aug 20 12:03:28 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 21-Aug-85 06:44:34 EDT References: <3622@decwrl.UUCP> <2644@sun.uucp> <422@timeinc.UUCP> Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma. Lines: 62 Ross Greenberg: > Like wow!!! So all I have to do to have my opinion made completely > valid as fact is start taking some female hormones? Then I'll be able > to represent ALL men and ALL women. Like, fantastic. Wow, and if > somebody tells me that they are still only my own experiences, I can > just quote the above. I have NEVER seen Sunny claim to represent either ALL men or ALL women, or even ALL transsexuals. I can't BELIEVE the number of people who are trying to discredit her observations by suggesting that she claims to "know it all." Ross's attack is one of the nastiest yet. Reread what Sunny wrote, and watch my emphasis ... >> what could possibly give us all better OBSERVATIONS of WHICH FACTORS >> in humans ARE DEPENDENT ON HORMONES, and which are not, than the >> observations of humans who have experienced both male and female >> hormones? OBSERVATIONS, not conclusions! ... And about HORMONE-DEPENDENT FACTORS, not what ALL men and ALL women are like! > maybe there is a whole lot more to being either a male or a female > than whether one has the right hormones or genitilia for that > definition. Nope, guess not, 'cause Sunny claims that she can do it. > I mean, let's take her word for what it is like to be a well-adjusted > male, or a well-adjusted female. She knows all, for she takes hormone > pills/shots! Gimme a break! DAMN IT! Sunny claims no such thing! She entered a discussion with a point of view on HORMONAL DIFFERENCES, a discussion upon which she has a unique perspective. Sunny has recently expressed a great deal of exasperation over people's attempts, not just to argue with her viewpoint, but to totally deny she has a viewpoint at all. I have sent her mail in an attempt to let her know that there are a number of us who want to listen to her, and not to let those trying to drown her out with their shouting drive her off the net. But the tactics have become so low. The prevailing method is typified here in Ross's article: put words in her mouth and then attack her for those words. I really think Sunny deserves an apology. Even those who don't agree with what she has to say (i don't always ...) should realize that this is a cheap tactic. Why do people do this? Well, I can't come up with a better explanation than Sunny's: extreme xenophobia. What a shame that it's still so rampant. As much as I'd like to hear Sunny's viewpoint, I doubt I could endure the dirty tricks people are playing on her. She's already made her farewell, and I can't say that I blame her. It's a great loss for this forum, because we probably won't get a transsexual viewpoint from somebody else, for the reasons Sunny has given. What? You say we don't need a transsexual viewpoint? What the hell do we want to hear from THOSE people? Yup, I guess Sunny was right. Xenophobia at its ugliest. What a shame ... -- Ken Rossen ...!{decvax,ihnp4,ima,linus,harvard}!bbncca!krossen ... or ... krossen@bbnccp.ARPA