Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site bcsaic.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!prls!amdimage!amdcad!amd!pesnta!hplabs!tektronix!uw-beaver!fluke!ssc-vax!bcsaic!shebs From: shebs@bcsaic.UUCP (stan shebs) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Rape - Another Solution Message-ID: <214@bcsaic.UUCP> Date: Fri, 16-Aug-85 11:45:14 EDT Article-I.D.: bcsaic.214 Posted: Fri Aug 16 11:45:14 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 23-Aug-85 08:19:03 EDT References: <2402@amdcad.UUCP> <209@bcsaic.UUCP> <1140@ihuxn.UUCP> Reply-To: shebs@bcsaic.UUCP (stan shebs) Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 36 >> I find it interesting that violence does seem to be an important >> part of our civilization. Not to get back into discussions of >> sociobiology again, but perhaps "violence" is an integral part >> of human character. I know of no solid proof for or against, >> although there's much flimsy evidence (some primitive cultures >> seem to be nonviolent, but they generally are found in hostile >> environments - violence comes from outside rather than inside)... > >Ah yes, the "savage ape". Popular myth. Perhaps more probable, >though, is the notion that our aggressiveness is entirely >cultural, an ironic figment of our becoming "civilized". Hunter- >gatherers can always pack up and move on (and they do, or did), >but once you put down roots, you have your territory, a stake worth >fighting for. > >ken perlow ***** ***** >..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** *** I didn't realize you had a special line to truth! How do you know that this is a "myth"?? Last I heard, there's been no proof or disproof of *any* such hypotheses. Your own hypothesis is weakened by the observation that hunter-gatherers can always fight over MOTASs, a choice bit of food, the most comfortable sleeping spot,... of course, that doesn't mean that they do, or did. The other social primates certainly do; the human groups that seem not to (Australian aborigines, Bushmen, Tasadays, Eskimos, others no doubt) may not have been studied adequately (remember that much of chimp behavior was unsuspected until Goodall and others spent *lots* of time watching). Anyhow, if the choice *is* between nonviolence and civilization, I'll take civilization (does that make me a latent rapist? :-) ) stan shebs p.s. Do apartment dwellers have "roots" and a "territory worth fighting for"?