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From: edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Rape - Another Solution
Message-ID: <2652@randvax.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 18-Aug-85 16:24:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: randvax.2652
Posted: Sun Aug 18 16:24:16 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 05:48:07 EDT
References: <2402@amdcad.UUCP> <209@bcsaic.UUCP>
Reply-To: edhall@rand-unix.UUCP (Ed Hall)
Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica
Lines: 52
Keywords: violence, art, culture
Summary: Natural violence is NOT the same as intentional violence

In article <209@bcsaic.UUCP> shebs@bcsaic.UUCP (stan shebs) writes:
>In article <2402@amdcad.UUCP> linda@amdcad.UUCP (Linda Seltzer) writes:
>>
>>This is not a complete solution, but I think it would help.
>>Right now most of us economically support a culture of violence.
>>...
>>In spite of all rationalizations, violence is our art and our culture.
>
>I find it interesting that violence does seem to be an important
>part of our civilization.  ...perhaps "violence" is an integral part
>of human character.  I know of no solid proof for or against,
>although there's much flimsy evidence (some primitive cultures
>seem to be nonviolent, but they generally are found in hostile
>environments - violence comes from outside rather than inside).

Let's define our terms, here.  There is a rather large difference
between someone intentionally splitting your head open with a rock,
and being hit on the head by a meteor; let's not confuse the random
violence of nature with the intentful violence of human beings.

>... I would
>not want to eliminate the violence of Beethoven's Fifth or Ninth (or
>even parts of the Sixth).  If everything in life were reduced to
>the bloodlessness of Devienne's or Haydn's music, there would be
>little to distinguish it from death...

This ``violence'' is a metaphor.  I don't see the cellists bashing
the violists with their instruments; on the other hand, movies attempt
to portray violence much worse than this, as sensationalistically as
possible, and neither as metaphor nor in a larger dramatic context.
The difference between the violence in a slasher film and that to be
found in serious art isn't just a matter of degree; in the former
the plot becomes merely an excuse for embedding violent scenes.
Art become secondary.

> ... I'm suggesting that training everyone to be nonviolent
>might be another one of those cures that is worse than the disease.
>It might be extraordinarily risky even to experiment with; if violence
>*is* linked to creativity, extinction of violence would be irreversible...

I don't think we'll ever eliminate unintentional violence, no matter how
far technology advances.  And there will always be conflict and
tension--things that I would agree are essential ingredients in much of
artistic creation.  But *intentional* violence--the *willful* injury of
one human being by another--was, is, and always will be destructive to
society and to the individual, and is quite worthy of our attempts at
eradication.

>							stan shebs

		-Ed Hall
		decvax!randvax!edhall