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From: edhall@randvax.UUCP (Ed Hall)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: What women want
Message-ID: <2637@randvax.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 10-Aug-85 13:42:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: randvax.2637
Posted: Sat Aug 10 13:42:56 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 17-Aug-85 06:02:43 EDT
References: <3498@decwrl.UUCP>
Reply-To: edhall@rand-unix.UUCP (Ed Hall)
Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica
Lines: 66

In article <3498@decwrl.UUCP> jackson@curium.DEC (Seth Jackson) writes:
> ....
>>Thank you Chris.  If you want to know
>>what turns women on, ask them.  I know we keep harping on that,
>
>From my experience, what women say they want
>is not always the same as what they actually want. I spent 2 years
>in business school surrounded by "feminist" women who insisted that
>what they wanted was a man who treat them as an equal. But, what I
>found was that, treating them they way they said they wanted resulted
>in having lots of "good friends". In a romantic relationship, these 
>women still wanted men to hold doors for them, buy them dinner, etc.

How did you know this?  Did you ask?  Which role were *you* most
comfortable playing?  People generally have romantic relationships
with someone whom they are comfortable with--and someone who is
comfortable around them.  Holding doors and buying dinner are trivia
compared to the sort of emotional give-and-take that occurs in a
romantic relationship.  What was the status of equality there?

I'm not trying to point my finger, here; I'm just bringing up the fact
that there were two people involved in each of the situations you have
generalized from, and even if you had a good sample on one side, the
other side had a sample size of one.

My own experience in this area is mixed.  Many women really *do* want
to be treated as equals, and I've had several romantic relationships
(the best ones :-) ) where this was true.  But is it surprising that
some people are most comfortable with what they're most used to?  This
is true of just about anyone in the process of change.  It wouldn't
surprise me at all if a lot of women would like to be equal, but still
are a bit uncomfortable with the reality of it.

>I have read "The Hite Report" and similar reports, in which women 
>"honestly" discuss their sexual desires. They talk about 
>how they long for more foreplay and afterplay, and how they wish men
>would go slower and take their time. Experience tells me, however,
>that women don't really want those things, even though they say they
>do. Of course, I'm sure there are some who do (are you out there?), 
>but, in general, they are approximately the same way as the men they
>complain about.

Now, *here* I have to disagree strongly; in my own experience I have
*never* met a woman who didn't appreciate foreplay, and lots of it.
As for afterplay, well, these are some of the tender moments that
make a good romantic relationship heaven-on-earth.  Here, too, I've
yet to meet an exception.  But in women who've discussed past lovers,
I've heard a lot of criticism of the wham-bamm-thankyou-ma'am approach.

On the other hand, if you're complaining that women need to be more
*active* in foreplay, I'd say you're more likely to have a legitimate
beef.  But once again, this is a matter of being most comfortable
with what one is used to; the traditional role for women is passivity.
There's a solution for this, though--try asking.

>I am not saying that this phenomenon is unique to women. I'm just saying
>that you can't always believe what people tell you, because people
>don't always know what they want.

Agreed, this happens.  But my own experience is that people generally
*do* know what they want, but have problems saying it.

>				Seth Jackson

		-Ed Hall
		decvax!randvax!edhall