Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Planned Parenthood posting Message-ID: <1473@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Aug-85 09:23:31 EDT Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1473 Posted: Mon Aug 12 09:23:31 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 18-Aug-85 20:38:16 EDT References: <639@ttidcc.UUCP> <10929@rochester.UUCP> Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week Lines: 105 > Why do I keep refering to children. A few years ago I had a conversation with > the head of PP here in Rochester. I said "If a 10 year old came to you for > an abortion would you give her one?", he said "Yes, definitely." And he > said that in no way would he feel obligated to tell her parents. [RAY] Great!! (I suppose the author sees something wrong in this. Never mind.) Children are not the property of their parents (though some might like to think so) and they are entitled to such rights. > Any responsible parent would definitely tell their children not to have sex. Any sensible American child would definitely ignore that "responsible" (and I most certainly question the use of the word) parent. Which is precisely why real information should be passed on to kids, precisely because of parents whose sex education for their child consists of that responsible statement "Thou shalt not have sex". > But here is a respectible organization (on the outside) full of ADULTS who > a child would naturally look up to like they would a teacher or counselor > telling them "Well if you must have sex, here, have some pills." This to > the mind of a child must make it seem really OK to go ahead and have sex. As opposed to the wishes of the "responsible" parent. > How would you feel if someone was secretly giving your child cigarettes and > drugs or alchohol. Suppose there exists Planned Cigarette Habit. There is. It's called mass media and peer pressure. Cigarette companies depend on the image provided by these factors, to promote the "adult"-like (responsible?) image of cigarette smokers. > What the hell makes PP think that an adolescent is mentally responsible for > making decision about sex and abortions, young minds can be broken for life > by trumatic experiences. This is why the "responsible" parents MUST shield their child from ever having to make a decision in order to avoid traumatic experiences. > The standard argument of PP is that kids are going to have sex so why not > help them not to get pregnant. And a valid argument it is, unless you're an impositional moralist. > What PP must realize is that they > are in no way dealing with the problem of teen sex, they are only > fooling around with the symtoms. Unfortunately the morals of society filter > down to our children and the buck stops there. Equally unfortunately, some of those bad morals are obtained from "responsible" parents. And a lot of those parents, with the hellfire attitudes, get ignored by their children who just go in exactly the opposite direction. Not very effective. Or responsible. > I don't believe that all kids who go to PP have entirely made the decision one > way or the other. I've known kids who've gone there out of curiosity or at > the advice of their friends. What they received was a ten minute discourse on > perhaps one of the most important decisions of their young lives. That's certainly a lot longer then the one sentence "Thou shalt not have sex" brand of sex education that you proposed earlier. I'd say it's an improvement by one hundred fold. > Sure the counselors are strangers to these kids, but so are their teachers in > schools, whom they were taught in advance to respect, obey, and look on as > a source of knowledge and wisdom. This is called respecting your elders. This is called a load of crap. Especially when uttered by people who just expect respect as a given. Respect is earned, my friend. If you give your kids brimstone lectures about not having sex, do you honestly expect them to listen to you? You might, if you've trained them to be like sheep. Many have. Intelligent people respect the words of people that they have come to know as respectable and reliable sources of information. > The parents are the established authority figures but the ideals taught at > home are in a constant state of errosion outside the home. There is a tide of > parental reinforcement real world erosion that must constantly confuse kids. Thank god (in some cases). At least they MAY get some real information on the outside, in those cases. Better to be confused through the addition of real world information than to know only one side. > Too often the scales are tipped through outside interferance, i.e. peer pres- > ure, or even a misguided PP counselor. But often enough the fire and brimstone parents seem to THINK that they can tip the scales toward them with their lectures. In most cases they will have the opposite effect. >>> PP must stop putting kids in the drivers seat, they just are not old >>> enough, PP might respond; "well, kids are going to drive anyway, we're >>> just giving them the cars." >>They already have the cars. PP is handing out safety belts. Your comment >>would be more appropriate if Planned Parenthood were in the practice of >>dispensing genitals. > Yes my anology was rather silly here, PP doesn't give out cars, just a sort of > drivers license. PPs' saftey belts don't always prevent accidents either, > expecially if they forget to "buckel up." That's why PP teaches them to do just that, instead the nagging "Thou shalt not..." nonsense. -- Popular consensus says that reality is based on popular consensus. Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr