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From: david@aecom.UUCP (David Suna)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: Stolen software & halakha.
Message-ID: <1871@aecom.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 22-Aug-85 17:04:19 EDT
Article-I.D.: aecom.1871
Posted: Thu Aug 22 17:04:19 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 01:25:05 EDT
References: <1768@reed.UUCP> <253@sesame.UUCP> <1856@aecom.UUCP>
Reply-To: david@aecom.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE)
Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY
Lines: 46
Summary: 

In article <1856@aecom.UUCP> teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) writes:
>
>	While software vendors are trying hard to prevent future robbery they
> might well be selling programs knowing full well that they will be pirated.
> They might have resigned themselves to this fact, which would constitute yi'ush. 
> Howeve, in addition to yi'ush, one needs shinuy r'shut, changing of ownership
> in order to have no problem with g'neva ( see g'mara Bava Metsia, exact page
> escapes me now ). When I copy a program it is in my ownership. Therefore the
> copying itself is not a shinuy r'shut, and even though there was yi'ush 
> there might be a problem of g'neva ( robbery ) with my copying of the soft-
> ware. This is by no means meant to be a thorough discourse on the subject,
> but it should start some discussion.
>
>			Eliyahu Teitz.
>

	Although it is true that in order for a kinyan to be made yi'ush
is not sufficient, the gemarah in Baba Kama (sorry Eliyahu not Baba Metziah)
in perek Merubah deals with another type of shinui that would place an object
totally out of the r'shut of the original owner.  This shinui is a shinui
in the chafetz itself.  For example, the gemarah discusses a case where
someone steals a young sheep and the sheep subseqeuntly grows fat (or thin as
the case may be), there is then an arguement as to whether this constitutes
a shinui in the chafetz.  Now although there is no shinui r'shut for the program
there is a shinui in the chafetz of the program (i.e. it has been transferred 
to another disk).  Also, I would be interested in hearing whether there actually
is a shinui r'shut.  If the program is considered the property of the author
then although I have the program in my hands it could still be considered
in the r'shut of the author. For a precedent to this we have the concept of
pikadon in the hands of a shomer.  Many rishonim hold that the pikadon is in
the r'shut of the original owner although it is in the physical r'shut of the
shomer.  If so then when someone transfers a program to their own disk they
have in essence created a shinui r'shut.  

	I would like to point out that all of these discussions are really of
little help to the actual copier since the gemarah only says that someone who
supsequently buys the stolen object from the thief has no obligation to 
return it to its original owner.  The thief himself is no less responsible for
the act.  This may only help those who copy a copy of a program.

	This seems to be an important issue especially with the price that
programs can demand.  I would be interested in a more authoritative view on
the subject. (i.e. the psak of a rav and not just personal impressions of
gemaras that we all haven't looked at in a while).

						David Suna