Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2(pesnta.1.3) 9/5/84; site epicen.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!intelca!t12tst!epicen!jbuck From: jbuck@epicen.UUCP (Joe Buck) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Re RAPE, etc.../ "understanding" horrible behavior and people Message-ID: <184@epicen.UUCP> Date: Mon, 5-Aug-85 04:24:15 EDT Article-I.D.: epicen.184 Posted: Mon Aug 5 04:24:15 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 11-Aug-85 05:28:45 EDT References: <739@udenva.UUCP> <540@hou2g.UUCP> <3014@hplabsb.UUCP> <6443@ucla-cs.ARPA> <1698@mnetor.UUCP> Organization: Entropic Processing, Inc., Cupertino, CA Lines: 50 Sophie Quigley writes: > receive from the females of their species. Yet non-human animals do not > rape (which might suggest that it might be insulting to animals to call > rapists animals <-:). Are you sure you want to say this? Seems to me that in a great number of species, sex is associated with force and violence (including killing of mates). There are really very few human behaviors (language may be one) that are unique to Homo sapiens. > Actually, quite a lot is known about rapism. Rape has been studied > extensively by psychologists and feminists and lay persons. I do not > know offhand of any actual psychology studies on rape but I have seen > enough references to such studies around to believe that they have been > made. The best work on rape that I have seen so far has been Susan > Brownmiller's book, which she wrote already 10 years ago, I believe. > The title is something like "men, women, and rape". That's "Against Our Will: Men, Women, and Rape". That work is principally a political tract. When I was in college, my friends and I (male and female) spent some time discussing it (the discussion, at times, got rather hot). Its central thesis is that all men are rapists (it contains that exact phrasing); what is actually said is that rape is a conspiracy engaged in by all men for the benefit of all men. Sophie, if you really believe that, please stop telling men to do something about the problem; if Ms. Brownmiller's thesis is true, we are the enemy and you should not negotiate with us. If, on the other hand, you consider it rhetorical excess designed to make a point, that's quite a different story. > By the way, my opinion (and that of quite a few feminists) is that rape > is not a personal problem of a few individuals with a distorted world > view, but a deep societal problem of the inequality between the sexes. > Society will have to be cured if we want the individuals cured. If that was as far as Brownmiller went, I'd agree. She goes a lot further than that. I'm a little distressed by some of the proposed changes. Seems some feminists (I consider myself a feminist, but often disagree with your postings, so I don't know) are becoming allies of the right wing. Let's junk freedom of speech and press (right wing because of offense against God, feminists because of bad images of women); let's junk due process (right wing because they don't believe in sissy stuff like reasonable doubt; feminists because they feel (correctly) that the current system doesn't punish rapists effectively enough). -- Joe Buck | Entropic Processing, Inc. UUCP: {ucbvax,ihnp4}!dual!epicen!jbuck | 10011 N. Foothill Blvd. ARPA: dual!epicen!jbuck@BERKELEY.ARPA | Cupertino, CA 95014