Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxt!mhuxr!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) Newsgroups: net.philosophy,net.politics Subject: Re: Who needs it? Message-ID: <1538@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Sun, 18-Aug-85 04:37:19 EDT Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1538 Posted: Sun Aug 18 04:37:19 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 23-Aug-85 07:04:14 EDT References: <1195@umcp-cs.UUCP> <540@utastro.UUCP> <468@spar.UUCP> Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week Lines: 23 Xref: linus net.philosophy:2094 net.politics:9875 > _ I hereby confess a repulsion to the idea, frequently expressed in > this newsgroup, that the word `free' is meaningless. [ELLIS] And then you proceed to quote Eric Blair himself on the topic of Newspeak. If anybody is engaging in Newspeak around here, it's those who say "now let me redefine this term to mean what I want it to mean so that it can be perceived that the thing meant by the original used definition of the term can magically be perceived to exist". Where we are talking about something that we have reasonable understanding of, something we are realtively sure of, like human capability for rational evaluative analysis, or (maybe better) the human capability to decide to condition the mind to behave and react in new (chosen) ways, when we are talking about such a thing, why must we recall a definition that is used to describe something else entirely that represents an implied fallacy and thus does not exist in reality? Why not a new word to describe this? I think we are all agreed that this thing I've described (by whatever name) exists (potentially, if learned) in the human mind. The questions are 1) what name should we give it? 2) does it qualify as "free"? -- Meanwhile, the Germans were engaging in their heavy cream experiments in Finland, where the results kept coming out like Swiss cheese... Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr