Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 SMI; site sun.uucp Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!genrad!decvax!decwrl!sun!sunny From: sunny@sun.uucp (Ms. Sunny Kirsten) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: PMS, transexuals, and testosterone poisoning Message-ID: <2614@sun.uucp> Date: Mon, 12-Aug-85 13:13:30 EDT Article-I.D.: sun.2614 Posted: Mon Aug 12 13:13:30 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Aug-85 08:44:02 EDT References: <291@SCIRTP.UUCP> <2564@amdcad.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 69 > Another interesting point in this discussion of testosterone poisoning > is that Sunny is admittedly a pre-operative transexual and therefore still > feels the effects of testosterone. Perhaps Sunny feels the effects of orally > administered estrogen as well but it is curious for me to understand > how someone still feeling the effects of testosterone can claim to know > what its absence feels like. > -- > "Where are all the good men?" > "I think they're out with all the bad women!" > > Phil Ngai (408) 749-5720 > UUCP: {ucbvax,decwrl,ihnp4,allegra}!amdcad!phil > ARPA: amdcad!phil@decwrl.ARPA The oral estrogen causes the testicles to shut-down on their production of male hormones. I can't claim to be totally free of the effects of male hormones, but I obviously can and have observed differences in myself resulting from a transition from the "normal" levels of male hormones to my current state of normal estrogen and progesterone levels and a greatly reduced level of male hormones. The fact is, that only those who have experienced both sets of hormones can reasonably make any valid observations about what differences between the sexes are hormonally based. I am one such person. There are at least 4 others on the net who are not nearly so willing to make public that they are not now, either what they once were, or what they hope to be in the future. Most transsexuals wish only to blend in with their new role, and only ever be taken to be what they appear to be, rather than to have their previous state or their transition known. There are, in the United States alone, 3 transsexual surgeries per day. There is an uncollected database out there... but you will have extreme difficulty getting the information from those unwilling to be sampled. The societal disapproval of those who do not fit into the male and female roles/stereotypes, or those who wish to cross that boundary, is sufficiently strong, that very few of us are willing to be known. I myself, am beginning to have serious doubts about the wisdom of having made myself known. But sometimes, just sometimes, I get really fed-up with men who have absolutely NO knowledge of what they're talking about, raving on about PMS in net.women. Sometimes, it seems worth risking all the rejection and ostracism, to point out a valid observation from experience, and risk all the flames which have come down on me as a result. Sometimes, I just can't believe the hostility and rejection of me, both on a human level, and as a valid data point. I seriously doubt any of the other transsexuals on the net who could substantiate or further enlighten on my observations of the effects of hormones will be willing to do so. Because y'all are just too damned closed minded to listen, or to treat us as valid humans. i.e. it just isn't worth the personal sacrifice to try to get a valid viewpoint heard and known. So just go on rationalizing away everything I have to say. After all... I'm so messed up I couldn't possibly have anything valid to say. Not when it threatens your preconceived notions, your closed minds, your sexual and genderal roles, and your total lack of ability to validly refute anything I have to say. IF you have experienced both male and female hormones, then you might have something valid to say about the differences between the sexes which are a result of hormones. Otherwise, you can only speak of what it is like to be male, or to be female. Just keep on rejecting me. Just keep on rejecting what I've said about the effects of hormones. Just keep on saying to the world: Don't bother me with the facts, My mind is made up. I will go a way. I will shut up. Because it is futile to cast pearls of wisdom before swine. Sunny -- {ucbvax,decvax,ihnp4}!sun!sunny (Ms. Sunny Kirsten)