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From: jho@ihu1m.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Rosen, "bug off"!
Message-ID: <615@ihu1m.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 9-Aug-85 19:10:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihu1m.615
Posted: Fri Aug  9 19:10:06 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 13-Aug-85 00:49:20 EDT
References: <164@vilya.UUCP> <658@cvl.UUCP>  <39@unc.UUCP> <604@ihu1m.UUCP> <634@ttidcc.UUCP>
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Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
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> In article <604@ihu1m.UUCP> jho@ihu1m.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) writes:
> >                 Since the orthodox aim is to impose their religion
> >on non-orthodox Jews, ...
> >Do you expect us to be quiet, while the orthodox are trying to
> >shove their religion (which we consider to be superstition) down our
> >throats?
> 
> BS.. that may be the aim of a minority of orthodox, but practically all  of
> the  ones  I  run  across don't care what other Jews believe or disbelieve.

If one looks at the record of the religionists in Israel, one can observe
a relentless effort of the orthodox to impose the religious law on
the secular Jewish society.  Examples of these efforts are:  the imposition
of the marital laws, the law to prevent the sale of pork and the
the attempts to shut down movies on Friday evening.  The former minister
of religious affairs Dr. Zerach Varhaftig spelled out the religionist
program of religious coercion in 1962.  He said:

      ` According to the [Jewish] religious concept, every Jew
      is a religious Jew,  the fact that he is a Jew makes him
      religious...'

      He then continues:

      `Every Jew has a Jewish spot, but his desires overpowers
      his mind.  If the law comes and restricts his freedom to
      yield to his [negative] desires,  his positive feelings will
      be awakened, and it will begin with coercion and end with
      a want.'  ( t'chilato b'ones v'sofo b'ratzon)

      These quotes are taken from a special supplement to
      the Ha'aretz newspaper provided by the ministry of
      religious affairs in February, 1962.

> Perhaps you should move to a different neighborhood.  On the opposite foot,
> Orthodox  baiting has become a national sport in Israel.  Many secular Jews
> think its fun to purposely drive through Orthodox neighborhoods on Shabbos,

It is regrettable that some secular Jews disturb the piece and quiet of
religious Jews.  Let us not forget that these acts are not mandated by
the law, but rather perpetrated by mischievous individuals.  

> etc.  Is  this  what  you  mean  by  not  keeping quiet.  Perhaps there's a
> connection between your lack of respect for  other  people's  belief's  and
> your lack of religion.  [Paul Blumstein] 

Why you jump to the conclusion that I don't respect other people's beliefs.
Not accepting a religious belief does not imply lack of respect to those
who practice the religion.  I don't scold you for believing, why do you
scold me for a lack of belieef?  It is quite clear that you have no respect
for my belief/disbelief system!
-- 
Yosi Hoshen, AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois,  Mail: ihnp4!ihu1m!jho