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From: thau@h-sc1.UUCP (robert thau)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: (I do some) America-bashing
Message-ID: <507@h-sc1.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-Aug-85 22:55:06 EDT
Article-I.D.: h-sc1.507
Posted: Tue Aug  6 22:55:06 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 9-Aug-85 02:45:10 EDT
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Organization: Harvard Univ. Science Center
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> I'm sorry, but I don't buy this.  The activities of the U.S. govt. are
> almost all aboveboard, while almost everything that the Soviet govt. does is
> secret.  We have a freedom of information act, and a relatively free press.
> Can you imagine anything like the Church committe hearings on CIA activity in
> the USSR?  

The freedom of information act (in case you haven't noticed) has been pared
back so much it's losing credibility even as window dressing.  The CIA has
recently been exempted from FOIA by the Supreme Court.  Furthermore, the 
largest intelligence organization the U.S. has (the NSA) is so hidden away
from the public it protects that its charter is still classified (i.e. one of
those documents that it's a crime to read).  For further details of the
aboveboard activities of the U.S. government, see the recent New Republic
in which one of the Contra leaders alleges that the entire contra resistance
(or at least his end of it) was organized by the CIA.

> There is no independent human rights group that ever thinks to compare 
> Soviet Human rights abuses with those in the U.S.

A U.N. commission once found that United States prisons consituted a massive
human-rights violation.  What we haven't got is *political* prisoners; the
conditions in U.S. jails are abominable.  (Yes, I know the U.N. gets us
wherever they can.  Still ...).

> We do know what goes on in the S.U.  We [those who study the S.U.] know that
> the KGB is a veritable Mafia in that country.  It is an idependent power base 
> that gives its head much influence.  This is not so true now as it was in the
> early 50's however.  Nevertheless, people in the USSR live in TERROR of the 
> KGB.  That cannot be said for any police organization in the US (with perhaps 
> a few exceptions in the deep south?).

I find it hard to believe that *everyone* in Russia is perpetually scared
stiff.  Most of them, I'm sure, know enough about when to keep their mouths
shut that the KGB isn't a serious danger.  The ones in trouble are the people
who speak out against the government; the record of the United States during
the late 60's is not so great in this department.  This is not to mention
the 50's (Mccarthy), WWII (Japanese), WWI (papers printing anti-war cartoons
were shut down by the govt.), and the Washington Administration (Alien and
Sedition acts).  (See below before flaming; I realize the differences ...)

> I am not blind to the faults of the U.S.  I am highly critical of U.S. society
> and govt. policy.  However I've seen to many communists (including personal
> acquaintances) make the mistake of believing that one cannot criticize the
> USSR without seeming like an apologist for everything bad in the US.

> Larry Kolodney

I'm probably to the right of Larry, but I get a bit disturbed when people
in this country take their rights for granted, as he seems to have done.
Constitution or no, the rights of the people need defense; I suspect from
words like the above that they need more defense than they've been getting.
(I could just as have easily thrown in the recent Supreme Court ruling about
"honorable intent" which makes the guarantee against illegal search and
seizure nearly worthless in the face of determined police).  

Overall, by comparison with other countries, the United States has a very
good record as regards human rights, and freedom of speech (so long as you
stay the hell out of the prisons).  However, it's far from perfect, and it
seems to be getting worse.

Anybody know where I can get some good, cheap asbestos????
-- 
Robert Thau			        \
Keeper of the *FLAME*			))
rst@tardis.ARPA			       ( (
h-sc1%thau@harvard.ARPA			\\