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From: jchapman@watcgl.UUCP (john chapman)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: America-bashing
Message-ID: <2327@watcgl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 9-Aug-85 10:48:39 EDT
Article-I.D.: watcgl.2327
Posted: Fri Aug  9 10:48:39 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Aug-85 02:46:10 EDT
References: <3268@drutx.UUCP> <10615@rochester.UUCP> <1105@teddy.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
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> In article <1659@mnetor.UUCP> fred@mnetor.UUCP (Fred Williams) writes:
> >>
> >    Speaking as a relatively independant observer, and one who 
> >actually favours free enterprise, etc. I have noted that the rumours
> >I hear about the KGB, (and that is all they are, rumours), are very
> >similar to the rumours I hear about the CIA and the many other 
> >"security" organisations in the US. None of these groups is likely
> >to let you or I find out what is really going on! Consequently I
> >suspect that your statement is a result of a slight bias of your own.
> >Well, there's a lot of that going around and your probably in good
> >company.
> >
> >Cheers,		Fred Williams
> >
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't buy this.  The activities of the U.S. govt. are
Well as Fred said he is relatively independant/unbiased.....
> almost all aboveboard, while almost everything that the Soviet govt. does is

That is probably true if you happen to actually live in the states but
don't forget all those people who get tortured/killed/jailed/"disappeared"
in dictatorships primarily sponsored by the US.  Also try and remember
things like the US bombing of Cambodia while the US public was fed lies.

> secret.  We have a freedom of information act, and a relatively free press.

I can see where you might believe that.  Let me strongly recommend a two
volume set of books by Noam Chomsky (yes, that Chomsky) with, as I recall,
the title "The Political Economy of Freedom"; one book focusses on South
America and the other on Southeast Asia - both are primarily concerned
with involvement by the "west" and in particular the veracity, or lack
thereof, of the press.

> Can you imagine anything like the Church committe hearings on CIA activity in
> the USSR?  
> There is no independent human rights group that ever thinks to compare 
> Soviet Human rights abuses with those in the U.S.

Seems to me Amnesty International does just that if you're willing to
include the complaints they make against US backed dictatorships.

> 
> We do know what goes on in the S.U.  We [those who study the S.U.] know that
> the KGB is a veritable Mafia in that country.  It is an idependent power base 
> that gives its head much influence.  This is not so true now as it was in the
> early 50's however.  Nevertheless, people in the USSR live in TERROR of the 
> KGB.  That cannot be said for any police organization in the US (with perhaps 
> a few exceptions in the deep south?).
> 
> I am not blind to the faults of the U.S.  I am highly critical of U.S. society
> and govt. policy.  However I've seen to many communists (including personal
> acquaintances) make the mistake of believing that one cannot criticize the
> USSR without seeming like an apologist for everything bad in the US.
> 
 Yes but too many americans make the converse mistake that because the
 US does good it excuses the bad things done - or that as long as they
 don't do quite as many bad things as the USSR then their ok.  The 
 arguments are usually not presented in this way but that is what they
 amount too.


-- 

	John Chapman
	...!watmath!watcgl!jchapman

	Disclaimer : These are not the opinions of anyone but me
		     and they may not even be mine.