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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: Settling the JSB/KB controversy once and for all
Message-ID: <1537@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 18-Aug-85 04:18:19 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1537
Posted: Sun Aug 18 04:18:19 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 23-Aug-85 07:03:57 EDT
References: <1446@pyuxd.UUCP> <387@mhuxr.UUCP> <1455@pyuxd.UUCP> <391@mhuxr.UUCP> <1491@pyuxd.UUCP> <397@mhuxr.UUCP>
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>>>I define work of artistic consequence as having some degree of influence over
>>>work created later, by others, and as being able to withstand passing
>>>fashions and evoke appreciative emotions over long periods of time
>>>("forever").  I'd say Ellington meets those criteria and the Go-Go's don't.
>>>[MARCEL]

>>Good for you.  You've also defined rhythm as THE most important element in
>>music.  So?  That's your personal taste.  And that's fine.

> I love your style, Rich. I post something. You ask for clarification. I give
> it. You can't find any valid argument against it, so you dismiss it as mere
> opinion. That's all it ever was, my man.

Given the number of times in the past you've tried to pass of your mere opinion
as absolute fact (you've got rhythm, who could tell you anything more?).
I don't know why we're arguing about the artistic merit of the GoGo's, because
I frankly don't care.  You seem to care that they be placed in the pile
labelled "unworthy", but I really think it's a personal judgment call.

> And I never said that rhythm was the most important anything. Go back and
> re-read the archives on that debate.

I quote:

<332@mhuxr.UUCP>
> Rhythm is at the core of all music. ...
> I could go on, but I am sure you get the picture. Rhythm is at the core
> of any successful music. Rhythm is the essential part of performance <<======
> because it is the only tool available across all types of musical
> performance.

<336@mhuxr.UUCP>
> Harmony seeks to quantize music, a sound continuum, in [arbitrary] discrete
> steps. Harmony establishes [arbitrary] rules about acceptable
> and unacceptable relationships between notes.
> 
> Rhythm, on the other hand, pervades all music. There can be aharmonic <<===
> and amelodic music, but there is no such thing as arrhythmic music.
> Stating that the core of a piece is its harmonic content is like
> saying that the meaning of a language is the way it is spelled.
> These are *not* value judgements. I listen to a pretty wide range  <<======
> of music, and these are the conclusions I reach. You disagree. Fine;
> state your assumptions, observations and conclusions. Let us talk.
> Save the value judgments on my assumptions, OK?

Thus, we should not make value judgments about Marcel's assumptions being
value judgments, whatever that means.  "*the* essential part"?  "*not*
value judgments"?  Whom are we kidding, Marcel?  Next time you suggest
that I read the archives, you should read them yourself.  Tom Duff (among
others) showed that there can be (and is) arhythmic music in the same sense
that music can be said to be amelodic or aharmonic.  Thank you for providing
me with the opportunity to substantiate.

>>It's called breaking up.  It's what happens when members of a group part
>>company.  I have no idea what sort of validity you were trying to impart for
>>your argument with this.  Let's call the whole thing off.

> It's called exiting with your tail between your legs because you have
> nothing else to say, if you ask me

I have plenty to say.  And I just said it.  I don't find the GoGo's worth
arguing about as far as worth.  You are the one who was insisting that
they were ipso facto without artistic merit.  You're the one who didn't
answer what I just said.  So much for tails between legs.
-- 
Meanwhile, the Germans were engaging in their heavy cream experiments in
Finland, where the results kept coming out like Swiss cheese...
				Rich Rosen 	ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr