Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site teddy.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!harvard!talcott!panda!teddy!lkk From: lkk@teddy.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Re: (I do some) America-bashing Message-ID: <1113@teddy.UUCP> Date: Wed, 7-Aug-85 12:40:17 EDT Article-I.D.: teddy.1113 Posted: Wed Aug 7 12:40:17 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 10-Aug-85 23:36:47 EDT References: <3268@drutx.UUCP> <10615@rochester.UUCP> Reply-To: lkk@teddy.UUCP (Larry K. Kolodney) Organization: GenRad, Inc., Concord, Mass. Lines: 94 In article <507@h-sc1.UUCP> thau@h-sc1.UUCP (robert thau) writes: >The freedom of information act (in case you haven't noticed) has been pared >back so much it's losing credibility even as window dressing. The CIA has >recently been exempted from FOIA by the Supreme Court. Furthermore, the >largest intelligence organization the U.S. has (the NSA) is so hidden away >from the public it protects that its charter is still classified (i.e. one of >those documents that it's a crime to read). For further details of the >aboveboard activities of the U.S. government, see the recent New Republic >in which one of the Contra leaders alleges that the entire contra resistance >(or at least his end of it) was organized by the CIA. My point exactly. There is no New Republic in the Soviet Union, (or anything like it.). Anybody in this country who took the time (by reading the NYT for example), could have found out this information. (I'm well aware of it for instance.) Yet, the NSA is noxious, but if its doing anymore than passive intelligence gathering, they're doing an amazing job at covering it up. (Are you afraid of the NSA coming to you house and taking you away because of what you say?) > >> There is no independent human rights group that ever thinks to compare >> Soviet Human rights abuses with those in the U.S. > >A U.N. commission once found that United States prisons consituted a massive >human-rights violation. What we haven't got is *political* prisoners; the >conditions in U.S. jails are abominable. (Yes, I know the U.N. gets us >wherever they can. Still ...). > The U.S. prison system is a discrace to our "civilization", but is head and shoulders above the Soviet Version. >> We do know what goes on in the S.U. We [those who study the S.U.] know that >> the KGB is a veritable Mafia in that country. It is an idependent power base >> that gives its head much influence. This is not so true now as it was in the >> early 50's however. Nevertheless, people in the USSR live in TERROR of the >> KGB. That cannot be said for any police organization in the US (with perhaps >> a few exceptions in the deep south?). > >I find it hard to believe that *everyone* in Russia is perpetually scared >stiff. Most of them, I'm sure, know enough about when to keep their mouths >shut that the KGB isn't a serious danger. The ones in trouble are the people >who speak out against the government; the record of the United States during >the late 60's is not so great in this department. This is not to mention >the 50's (Mccarthy), WWII (Japanese), WWI (papers printing anti-war cartoons >were shut down by the govt.), and the Washington Administration (Alien and >Sedition acts). (See below before flaming; I realize the differences ...) > Before Khruschev, there was literally no systematic law enforcement in the USSR. People could dissappear from the street never to be heard from again. All it took was a rumor or call from a neighbor. Paranoia was the word of the day. There was a famous case where a child turned in his father for some so-called treasonous act. The kid was made a national hero. Since Khruschev, things have become a little better. Now there is (I forget the name...Socialist Legality I think), which basicaly provides for due process in cases of non-political crimes. However, the KGB still has the right to do basically ANYTHING IT WANTS TO (it just chooses not to). >> I am not blind to the faults of the U.S. I am highly critical of U.S. society >> and govt. policy. However I've seen to many communists (including personal >> acquaintances) make the mistake of believing that one cannot criticize the >> USSR without seeming like an apologist for everything bad in the US. > >> Larry Kolodney > >I'm probably to the right of Larry, but I get a bit disturbed when people >in this country take their rights for granted, as he seems to have done. I see people who cavalierly compare rights in the US to those in the USSR as taking them for granted. People who grow up in one of the freer countries in the world and then call it fascist are trivializing the rights we do have, and insulting those who truly are living under fascist regimes. I am very aware of the declining rights situation in the U.S., and I'm sure that if Reagan had his way, we would be living in a quasi-fascist society in a few decades. But I'm discussing the present long-term situation, apart from local political trends. -- Sport Death, Larry Kolodney (USENET) ...decvax!genrad!teddy!lkk (INTERNET) lkk@mit-mc.arpa