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From: smithson@calma.uucp (Brian Smithson)
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: When is it okay to make personal attacks in a review?
Message-ID: <3@calma.uucp>
Date: Tue, 20-Aug-85 14:21:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: calma.3
Posted: Tue Aug 20 14:21:53 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 23-Aug-85 08:32:08 EDT
References: <4991@mit-eddie.UUCP> <3493@dartvax.UUCP> <5013@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Reply-To: smithson@calma.UUCP (Brian Smithson)
Distribution: net.music
Organization: GE/Calma Co., R&D Systems Engineering, Milpitas, CA
Lines: 71
Keywords: Madonna, Kate Bush, Joni Mitchel

In article <5013@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes:
[...]
>Madonna isn't an artist, and is neither honest nor sincere nor nice.
>She doesn't care about art.  She's in it for the money and the fame.
>She degrades and commercializes art and presents a harmful manipulative
>image of sex that rubs off on and affects people.  She deserves the
>abuse she gets (though certainly not for her voice -- who give a shit
>about her voice?).  Maybe I'm being vicious, but at least I supported my
>reasons.
>
>What did Kate Bush ever do to hurt anyone?  She's incredibly nice
>person, and does not deserve any kind of personal attack.  She doesn't
>care much about money and fame -- she just wants to be able to continue
>her art -- she puts most of her profits into being able to make more
>music and videos, etc.  If you're a reviewer and don't like her music,
>wouldn't a review saying you don't like her music be most appropriate?
>The Melody Maker reviewer thought her music was dated and dull, and
>because of this and the fact that others like her a lot, that she should
>be burned at the stake!  And her nipples must be phony!  Someone should
>be burned at the stake for making music you don't like?!?
>
>There are lots of artists that I consider honest and sincere, but whom I
>don't like, who maybe I find dated and dull.  Joni Mitchel, for example.
>Lots of people like her.  That's fine with me.  I'd be just as upset if
>someone went on a tirade about how Joni Mitchel should be burned at the
>stake, and how her nipples must be phony, etc.  I don't like Joni
>Mitchel's music, and don't think she's all that inspired, but that's
>just my opinion.  She is an honest and sincere artist, and deserves
>respect.
>
First of all, I don't give two shits for your opinions on who you consider
to be "artists", "sincere", "honest", "in it for the money" or not, or
(give me a break already) presenting a "harmful manipulative image of sex...".
It might be okay if you presented these opinions as though you considered
them to be opinions, but there are certain opinions which you consistently
present as though they represented fact.

After reading some of your postings, I have a hard time getting that you
really have anything to say, but I could imagine that you do have some
insights into music, poetry, and even artistry, that you could share on
this net.  What I do get from your postings, however, is that you are much
more committed to your opinions about "true art", commercialism, and the
effects of sexual imagery in videos, etc., than you are to whatever it is
that you *really* have to share about your experience of the art which
you *do* like.

Face it, Doug -- there will likely always be performers whom you do not
consider to be artists, some of them will probably be successful, some more
so than performers whom you do consider to be artists, and there will be
reviewers and others who flame the hell out of your "artists".  But consider
this:  I suggest that the difference between many of your postings and
those postings that you so ahbor is in their point of view, in their
justifications, and in their supporting "reasons". 

Take the above posting as an example:  you flame the hell out of Madonna,
and justify the admitted viciousness using the content of the viciousness
itself.  Doesn't that give you a clue to something?  I could ask how it is
that you "know" that Madonna is dishonest, insincere, doesn't care about art,
etc., but it would be a great deal more valuable if you asked that to yourself.
Now, what if some reviewer thought similarly of Kate Bush?  Wouldn't they be
"justified" in their viciousness?  Perhaps.  Perhaps not.  More to the point,
who cares?  I think that you'd be a lot more effective in sharing Kate
Bush (or whoever) with the world if you'd just get off of that bandwagon.
-- 

		-Brian Smithson
		 Calma Company 
		 ucbvax!calma!smithson
		 calma!smithson@ucbvax.ARPA

No kidding -- I don't have an opinion of Kate Bush!  Really!     :-)