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From: martillo@csd2.UUCP (Joachim Martillo)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Dvar Torah Project returns
Message-ID: <3780068@csd2.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 19-Aug-85 20:59:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: csd2.3780068
Posted: Mon Aug 19 20:59:00 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 24-Aug-85 18:00:01 EDT
References: <148@erc3ba.UUCP>
Organization: New York University
Lines: 57

Original article follows.

Eliyahu Teitz is somewhat more correct  than Bill Peters.   Eliyahu is
referring  to  the  Hep!Hep!   riots  of 1819.    Hep  is  a  Crusader
rallying-cry in Europe  and later an  accusation  accusation of Jewish
collaboration with Salah  ad-Din   and the Ottomans  in  general.  HEP
stands for Hierosolyma Est Perdita (Jerusalem  is lost).  The Hep!Hep!
riots   took place    in Frankfurt,   Darmstadt, Bayreuth,  Karlsruhe,
Duesseldorf, Heidelberg,  Wurzburg and Copenhagen.    Expulsions  took
place   in  Wurzburg  and  throughout  Franken   (Franconia), Schwaben
(Swabia) and Bayern (Bavaria).

Whether hip and hep  are related is unclear.   I have seen attempts to
relate hip, hip, hurrah (earlier hip,  hip, huzzah) to  hep, hep oyez.
Oyez is Norman  French for hear ye  (imperative plural) still used  in
some courts.  Oyez  is pronounced o-yez  or o-yey (rhyming with they).
The arguments are not incredibly persuasive.

/* csd2:net.religion.jewish / wkp@lanl.ARPA / 12:46 pm  Aug 16, 1985 */


> 	I heard in jewish history class a few years ago, that HIP stands for
>  Jeusalem is subjugated ( or something similar ) and that it was the Romans
>  victory cheer upon returning to Rome. Hardly a phrase to be used by Jews.
> 			Eliyahu Teitz.


     References?  Let's not scold someone else publicly until we make an
     attempt to investigate the etymological or philological sources.

     The word "hip" appears to be from Old English, where there are many
     variants of the word [Oxford English Dictionary], but the use of
     the exclamatory "hip" as in "hip-hip-horay" has an UNKNOWN etymology
     [e.g., Webster's 3rd international dictionary].  In addition, none
     of the Romance languages have this form, thereby indicating a non-
     Roman origin.

     According to Roman historians, the Roman soldiers came into Rome
     shouting "Iudaea capta!" [Judaea is conquered!].  This phrase was
     also coined on Roman coinage of that period.

     A misunderstanding might have arisen from the fact that many captive
     Jews died in the Roman "hippodrome".  But in this case, the word
     has a Greek origin (ippo=horse, dromos=course) which is why many
     horse and chariot races were conducted in these ampitheatres.
     Another possibility is that the Roman greeting "eho, heus!" which
     Roman soldiers may have used upon returning to their friends may
     have been translated in some very old English books as "Hip!"
     which is equivalent to the modern English "Hey!"

     In any case, there is no evidence for Eliyahu's contention, and
     I believe that Jews can use the phrase "hip-hip-horay" with
     impunity.
--

bill peter                                       ihnp4!lanl!wkp
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