Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: Catastrophic Evolution/ more on large animals and extinction Message-ID: <647@psivax.UUCP> Date: Tue, 13-Aug-85 12:59:29 EDT Article-I.D.: psivax.647 Posted: Tue Aug 13 12:59:29 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 18-Aug-85 03:57:48 EDT References: <367@imsvax.UUCP> Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Lines: 76 Summary: In article <367@imsvax.UUCP> ted@imsvax.UUCP (Ted Holden) writes: > > > 1. Several useful animal species including horses and camels > became extinct in the Americas several thousand years ago. > No ancient tribe in its right mind would exterminate all of > the horses in it's local. Not deliberately, but it is quite concievable that they could do it by accident, look what is happening to Anchovies now! Look at the Carrier Pigeon! It is amaxing how easily a species can be driven to extinction quite by accident. > > 2. The natives which the first white men in America encountered > were living in perfect harmony with nature, killing only for > food. Since one mammoth would feed a large tribe for a hell > of a long time, there is no chance that these people > exterminated the mammoths. Has it occured to you that this harmony was a result of learning from thier mistakes! That perhaps after wiping out several major food species they learned how to hunt without excess. > > 3. There is a hell of a difference between trying to kill a > lone elephant, a straggler or lone bull, and trying to > exterminate elephants generally. The latter would involve > attacking HERDS of elephants in which the females would be > attempting to protect the young, FAR more dangerous. Admittedly, but the archeological evidence is unquestionable, early man did just that! The basic method of hunting mammoths &c was to stampede them over cliffs and then pick up the remains. There are just too many of these massacre sites to doubt that this happened. Of course it was dangerous, and people probably got killed doing it, but people get killed flying airplanes, a much less necessary activity, and we still keep doing it. > > 4. Attempting to kill the PREDATERS of the archaic world would > require modern weapons. I just can't picture anyone killing > a pteratorn or a north American super-lion (five feet at the > shoulders) or an ice-age giant cave bear with spears. The > status of archery in ancient north America is problematical > ..... > (wood and animal horn) recurve bow. Consider also that Fred > Bear, one of America's foremost bow hunters and owner of > Bear Archery Co., made several attempts to kill a polar bear > with a modern 70 lb. hunting bow using modern aluminum > arrows with steel tips. He had a buddy backing him up with > a 300 magnum rifle on each occasion and it was only on about > the fifth try that he didn't NEED that friend along. > Actually, early man probably didn't actively hunt these preditors, but the lion, at least, has a tendency to attempt to steal other predators food, and I am sure early man tried to defend his hard-won prey. Remember, early hunting was a *group* effort, so the difficulty a *single* had in killing a bear has little bearing on the results of 20-30 hunters shooting at the same bear. Modern sport hunting is quite different from the subsistence hunting of early man! > 5. Consider that rabbits and deer are tastier than elephants or > super-bisons etc., have always been plentiful in north > America, and can be trapped and killed without exposing the > hunters to any extreme danger. Enough said. > No, the food value of a Bison or Elephant is far greater than such small prey. The problem with hunting for a living is effort required to catch the prey. The large food value of large prey means more food for less effort, and thus maximal hunting efficiency. > -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen