Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site lanl.ARPA Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!lanl!wkp From: wkp@lanl.ARPA Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Proof of Outlandish Propositions Message-ID: <29563@lanl.ARPA> Date: Mon, 12-Aug-85 12:50:10 EDT Article-I.D.: lanl.29563 Posted: Mon Aug 12 12:50:10 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Aug-85 03:28:48 EDT References: <293@mit-athena.UUCP> <528@bu-cs.UUCP> <586@ihu1m.UUCP> <29280@lanl.ARPA> <612@ihu1m.UUCP> Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory Lines: 34 In article <612@ihu1m.UUCP> Yosi Hoshen writes: > I didn't say that you can simultaneously determine the position and > momentum of a particle. Quantum mechanics allows you to determine > their expectation values. The issue is whether there is a mathematical > model. I think mathematical model is possible. But such a model that > considers all interactions is not solvable. The issue was whether or not it is possible to describe the universe mathematically. The laws of physics themselves decree that there exists a fundamental limitation to what is knowable. Hence, there are phenomena in physics which are inherently undecidable, and thus not describable by mathematics. In point of fact, mathematics is not even describable by itself. The famous Incompleteness Theorem states that: 1. It is not possible to prove the internal consistency of mathematics. 2. There are things that are true that can never be deduced from any finite set of axioms. The famous Halting Theorem in computer science is another example of a proven limitation to what is ultimately knowable. Of course, this has nothing to do with computational complexity. -- bill peter ihnp4!lanl!wkp "See how many hidden causes there are...hidden from the comprehension of human beings." --The Zohar