Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site cybvax0.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion Subject: Re: "Secular Humanism" banned in the US Schools. Message-ID: <699@cybvax0.UUCP> Date: Fri, 23-Aug-85 15:16:29 EDT Article-I.D.: cybvax0.699 Posted: Fri Aug 23 15:16:29 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 25-Aug-85 00:37:21 EDT References: <4141@alice.UUCP> <938@bunker.UUCP> <161@gargoyle.UUCP> <5766@cbscc.UUCP> Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz) Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA Lines: 102 Xref: watmath net.politics:10621 net.religion:7463 Summary: In article <5766@cbscc.UUCP> pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) writes: > In 1965 the Supreme Court heard *United States vs Seeger* and opined > that any belief can be classified as religious if it is "sincere > and meaningful and occupies a place in the life of its possessor > parellel to that filled by the orthodox belief in God". The primary > theologian consulted was Paul Tillich who defines the essence of > religion as "ultimate concern". This case also dealt with the > conscientious objector issue regarding the draft. Thus, in order to teach the essence of religion, we must teach that something is of "ultimate concern". > It seems to me that the secularists want it both ways. When it becomes > beneficial to have one's beliefs viewed as religious, the wear the > religious mantle. When it comes to keeping certain ideas out of the > public schools, however, that's different. Then you're only religious > if you believe in God. The Humanist Manifestos proclaim the religious > nature of humanism, though many humanists avoid the term. The Humanist Manifestos state their ideas of ultimate concerns. I personally would oppose teaching these as ultimate concerns in public schools. (I am an agnostic, not a humanist, and feel that some statements in the Manifestos are mistaken.) Just as I would oppose teaching that Jesus is Lord in our public schools. I don't see the Humanist Manifesto being taught as ultimate concerns in public schools, but I do see a horde of Bible-thumpers who've been doing that for centuries trying to continue their unconstitutional practices. > Some don't > bother to hide fact that they consider the public classroom to be > the primary vehicle for the promulgation of their views. John Dunphy's > statement in *The Humanist* (Jan/Feb 1983) is classic: > > I am convinced that the battle for humankind's future must be > waged and won in the public school classroom by teachers who > correctly perceive their role as the proselytizers of a new faith: > a religion of humanity that recognizes and respects the spark of > what theologians call divinity in every human being. These teachers > must embody the same selfless dedication as the most rabid > fundamentalist preachers, for they will be ministers of another > sort, utilizing a classroom instead of a pulpit to convey humanist > values in whatever subject they teach, regardless of the educational > level--preschool day care or large state university. Frankly, I think he is overzealous but accurate. It is next to impossible to separate the instructor from the subject material. Use of the classroom as a pulpit is entirely inappropriate, but you cannot entirely shut off the transfer of values while employing human teachers. > In the original article, JJ mentioned Issac Asimov as one who was upset > over the "ban" of "secular humanism" from the public schools. Maybe Asimov > has more to worry about than the teaching of evolutionary science. The > American Humanist Assoc. voted him "humanist of the year" in 1983. The > following year Steven J. Gould received the award. This information I > received after subscribing to an often cited (by some ... evolutionists > anyway) anti-creationist journal called "Creation/Evolution". Turns out > the editor of that journal is (or was) executive director of the AHA and > writes and anti-creationism column in *The Humanist*. Perhaps the connection > between evolution and religious belief isn't as contrived as many imagine. :-) Close, but you've got it reversed. Organized skeptics form a fairly small society, who are very quick to oppose religious interference in politics, science, etc. > Personally, I think its about time they did something to prevent secularism > from being the only religious ideology allowed a voice in the public schools. Show us where secularism is being taught as an ultimate value in the schools. > As Richard John Neuhaus (not exactly a fundamentalist) points out in his > recent popular book "The Naked Public Square", the idea that religion can > be excluded from the public square is a myth. Some religion will fill the > void; the tacit religion of our "pluralistic" society is secularism. The > only purpose for its non-religious cloak is to exclude other religions from > its primary sphere of influence. All our constitutional guarantees are myths. Your every constitutional right can be violated. The goal is to make as fair an approximation as can be reasonably arrived at. Saying "you can't be ideal, so let's make it worse" is fallacious "solution" being suggested. If some "religion" will fill the void, is the solution then to throw away "the [government] shall make no laws concerning an establishment of religion" because it is an impossible ideal? Or shall we attempt to follow the spirit of that ammendment by doing the best we can? Prohibiting teaching of ultimate values in public schools is a practical procedure: eliminating all teaching of values is ridiculous. > >Perhaps there are several Secular Humanist temples in your neighborhood, > >but there are none in mine. ... > > Have you bothered to look in the phone book? In the Columbus Yellow > Pages the Humanist Fellowship has themselves listed under > "Churches-Non-Denominational" (that's where my Christian church is listed). > They advertise "Non-traditional weddings by Humanist Counselor Advocates". > Anyway, since when is a temple a necessary item for a religion? At Harvard, there is a secular humanist chaplain. Surprised me; it's the first mention of one I'd seen. -- Mike Huybensz ...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh