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From: tan@ihlpg.UUCP (Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Proof of Outlandish Propositions
Message-ID: <1075@ihlpg.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 13-Aug-85 13:44:46 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihlpg.1075
Posted: Tue Aug 13 13:44:46 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 17-Aug-85 14:26:11 EDT
References: <293@mit-athena.UUCP> <528@bu-cs.UUCP> <586@ihu1m.UUCP> <29280@lanl.ARPA> <612@ihu1m.UUCP> <29563@lanl.ARPA>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
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> > [Yosi Hoshen]
> > I didn't say that you can simultaneously determine the position and
> > momentum of a particle.  Quantum mechanics allows you to determine
> > their expectation values.  The issue is whether there is a mathematical
> > model.  I think mathematical model is possible.  But such a model that
> > considers all interactions is not solvable.
> -------------------------------
> [Bill Peter]
>      The issue was whether or not it is possible to describe the universe
>      mathematically.  The laws of physics themselves decree that 
>      there exists a fundamental limitation to what is knowable.
>      Hence, there are phenomena in physics which are inherently
>      undecidable, and thus not describable by mathematics.
---------------------------
The disagreement between Yosi Hoshen and Bill Peter is merely semantic,
not substantive.  Assume a mathematical equation which correctly models
the behavior of the universe, but makes only statistical predictions.
Yosi correctly states that we would have a mathematical model of the universe.
Bill correctly states that such a model would not decide the result of
specific experiments, and thus the universe is not completely describable
by mathematics.  End of discussion, I hope.  If not, I suggest net.physics
would be more appropriate.
-- 
Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL  ihnp4!ihlpg!tan