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From: krossen@bbncca.ARPA (Ken Rossen)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Innate Sexual Differences
Message-ID: <1537@bbncca.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 20-Aug-85 12:03:28 EDT
Article-I.D.: bbncca.1537
Posted: Tue Aug 20 12:03:28 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 21-Aug-85 06:44:34 EDT
References: <3622@decwrl.UUCP> <2644@sun.uucp> <422@timeinc.UUCP>
Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 62

Ross Greenberg:

>     Like wow!!!  So all I have to do to have my opinion made completely
>     valid as fact is start taking some female hormones?  Then I'll be able
>     to represent ALL men and ALL women.  Like, fantastic.  Wow, and if
>     somebody tells me that they are still only my own experiences, I can
>     just quote the above.

I have NEVER seen Sunny claim to represent either ALL men or ALL women, or
even ALL transsexuals.  I can't BELIEVE the number of people who are trying
to discredit her observations by suggesting that she claims to "know it
all."  Ross's attack is one of the nastiest yet.  Reread what Sunny wrote,
and watch my emphasis ...

>>     what could possibly give us all better OBSERVATIONS of WHICH FACTORS
>>     in humans ARE DEPENDENT ON HORMONES, and which are not, than the
>>     observations of humans who have experienced both male and female
>>     hormones?

OBSERVATIONS, not conclusions!

... And about HORMONE-DEPENDENT FACTORS, not what ALL men and ALL women are
like!

>     maybe there is a whole lot more to being either a male or a female
>     than whether one has the right hormones or genitilia for that
>     definition.  Nope, guess not, 'cause Sunny claims that she can do it.
>     I mean, let's take her word for what it is like to be a well-adjusted
>     male, or a well-adjusted female.  She knows all, for she takes hormone
>     pills/shots!  Gimme a break!

DAMN IT! Sunny claims no such thing!  She entered a discussion with a point
of view on HORMONAL DIFFERENCES, a discussion upon which she has a unique
perspective.

Sunny has recently expressed a great deal of exasperation over people's
attempts, not just to argue with her viewpoint, but to totally deny she has
a viewpoint at all.  I have sent her mail in an attempt to let her know
that there are a number of us who want to listen to her, and not to let
those trying to drown her out with their shouting drive her off the net.

But the tactics have become so low.  The prevailing method is typified here
in Ross's article:  put words in her mouth and then attack her for those
words.  I really think Sunny deserves an apology.  Even those who don't
agree with what she has to say (i don't always ...) should realize that
this is a cheap tactic.

Why do people do this?  Well, I can't come up with a better explanation
than Sunny's: extreme xenophobia.  What a shame that it's still so rampant.

As much as I'd like to hear Sunny's viewpoint, I doubt I could endure the
dirty tricks people are playing on her.  She's already made her farewell,
and I can't say that I blame her.  It's a great loss for this forum, because
we probably won't get a transsexual viewpoint from somebody else, for the
reasons Sunny has given.  What?  You say we don't need a transsexual
viewpoint?  What the hell do we want to hear from THOSE people?  Yup, I
guess Sunny was right.  Xenophobia at its ugliest.

What a shame ...
-- 
Ken Rossen	...!{decvax,ihnp4,ima,linus,harvard}!bbncca!krossen
... or ...  	krossen@bbnccp.ARPA