Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihlpg.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!lll-crg!dual!qantel!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand From: jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: my belief (Justification) Message-ID: <1064@ihlpg.UUCP> Date: Mon, 12-Aug-85 04:50:52 EDT Article-I.D.: ihlpg.1064 Posted: Mon Aug 12 04:50:52 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 14-Aug-85 22:49:26 EDT References: <8510@watarts.UUCP> <371@scgvaxd.UUCP> <232@gymble.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 36 > >> In article <371@scgvaxd.UUCP> dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) writes: > > In article <8510@watarts.UUCP> jharman@watarts.UUCP (James Harman) writes: > > >> It is impossible to lead a "good life" because we are self-centered. > >> The word "sin" means to "miss the mark"! It is an archery term. NO matter > >> how "good" we try to be, we will always miss the mark. That is why God > >> came down in human flesh to die in our place. > > Yes... we will always miss the mark (although I hate using absolutes like > this).... BUT your jump from "man missing the mark" to "that is why God > came down in human flesh to die in our place" still fails to explain to > the atheist EXACTLY why this act in any way cleanses us of our sins. It > really isn't an explanation at all, and because no one has yet freed themselves > of their own dogma it will continue to provide an unsatisfactory answer. Ok, I'm going to take my crack at explaining this one. It's a legal thing. We have sinned. We have broken God's law. For this, the sentence is eternal separation from God (which is the essence of hell, aside from everything that's been preached about brimstone). Romans puts it this way; "The wages of sin is death." In other words, (spiritual) death-->hell is only what we have earned by our own acts. God could not just pardon us without being less than God, without being untrue to his own character. His justice demands that the price be paid. Which is where we reenter the above quote. God (perfection) came to die in human flesh (the price, death, was paid). Since Jesus was perfect, he did not deserve to die. The sentence was not his; but ours. I've heard some say that 'God must be pretty rotten to let the good man suffer." To which I can only reply, look at the legal situation here today. It is not unheard of for a parent to 'take the rap' for his/her child. Which is all that Jesus did. To restate the reason, "That he might be just and yet the justifier of [he that believes in Christ Jesus<--paraphrase in brackets. It's late and I can't remember the reference; please excuse any typos.] AMBAR Until August 16--> {*ANYTHING*}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand "I told you when I *MET* you that I was crazy, and you weren't listening!"