Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sdcsla.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!petsd!pesnta!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!sdcsla!norman From: norman@sdcsla.UUCP (Donald A. Norman) Newsgroups: net.micro.mac Subject: Re: Termcap file for MacTerminal's VT100 Message-ID: <925@sdcsla.UUCP> Date: Thu, 4-Jul-85 12:38:10 EDT Article-I.D.: sdcsla.925 Posted: Thu Jul 4 12:38:10 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 7-Jul-85 05:52:30 EDT References: <921@sdcsla.UUCP> <251@ucbopal.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> <204@geowhiz.UUCP> Reply-To: norman@sdcsla.UUCP (Donald A. Norman) Distribution: net Organization: UC San Diego Institute for Cognitive Science Lines: 44 Keywords: Macterminal macintosh termcaps UNIX Summary: Sorry folks, but my TERMCAP problem still exists. Thanks for the several replies I have gotten and the several new termcaps. But perhaps I didn't make the problem clear. Technical configuration: MacTerminal 1.1, emulating a VT100, logged on to either a SUN workstation or a VAX running BSD4.2 UNIX. Baud rate: a phone line at 2400 Baud or a direct line at 9600 Baud. Also tested at 300 Baud. In the text editor vi, using TERMCAPS VT100 or am: Here is the problem. Suppose I have a full screen of text. I go to the middle of the screen and delete N lines (with the command Ndd). The lines get replaced with the symbol @ Just like above -- an @ in the first character position. No No -- that's not what I want. I want the lines to dissapear and for the empty space to instantly close up, to be replaced with new text scrolled in from the bottom. This is how all intelligent terminals work. Only really dumb terminals (technical term) don't have line delete and line insert so that they have to stick in a @ and can't get rid of the empty space. Now I know that the Macintosh can do better. Someone sent me a termcaps that did do just what I wanted. So I know that Macterminal can do better. Alas, that termcaps couldn't keep the screen info unscrambled, so it had to be junked. So, if you get @ signs when you delete a line in vi, then yours is NOT the termcaps I want and you are defrauding yourself. (I had better also say that yes, I realize I can get a new clean page image by repainting the screen each time with a ^L, but that is a pretty kludgy solution, very slow, and not satisfactory.) One correspondent said I should simply junk MacTerminal and try his (public domain) kermit. I will indeed give that a try as soon as I can. Any other advice? Donald A. Norman University of California, San Diego UNIX: {ucbvax,decvax}!sdcsvax!sdcsla!norman ARPA: norman@nprdc CSNET: norman%nprdc.arpa@csnet-relay