Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site utastro.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!utastro!padraig From: padraig@utastro.UUCP (Padraig Houlahan) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: The Scientific Case for Creation: (Part 45) Message-ID: <348@utastro.UUCP> Date: Sat, 13-Jul-85 10:58:49 EDT Article-I.D.: utastro.348 Posted: Sat Jul 13 10:58:49 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 15-Jul-85 02:15:42 EDT References: <403@iham1.UUCP> <799@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: U. Texas, Astronomy, Austin, TX Lines: 46 > From: rck@iham1.UUCP (Ron Kukuk), Message-ID: <403@iham1.UUCP>: > > 86. Stars that are moving in the same direction at > > significantly different speeds frequently travel in > > closely-spaced clusters [a]. This would not be the case if > > they had been traveling for billions of years because even > > the slightest difference in their velocities would cause > > their dispersal after such great periods of time. Similar > > observations have been made of galaxy and of galaxy-quasar > > combinations that apparently have vastly different > > velocities but which appear to be connected [b-d]. > > Cars travelling on interstates in the same direction at significantly > different speeds tend to travel in closely-space clusters. This would not > be the case if they had been travelling for hundreds of miles because even > the slightest difference in their velocities would cause their dispersal > after such great periods of time/distance. Obviously the cars have only > been travelling a few minutes. > > --JB All we learn from history is that > we learn nothing from history. Here are the ages of some clusters in our galaxy: cluster age( 1,000,000 yrs) IC348 < 1 IC2994 1 NGC3572 1.3 M21 3 IC2395 4 M7 40 M23 160 NGC2300 1,200 NGC188 11,000 The point of all this is to emphasize that clusters do exist, and are not just random associations, although such associations do exist. Furthermore, Ron's assertion is falsified by the existence of the last two on the list. The quaser problem rests on subjective interpretation as to whether galaxies are indeed close together, and not just on the same line of sight. Because the claim flies in the face of experiment and consistent observations, the general consensus is that more evidence, that is not subjective, needs to be gathered to counter the evidence against the claim. Padraig Houlahan.