Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site kontron.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!pesnta!pertec!kontron!cramer
From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Explorations of "social-interest": Origins of Human Society
Message-ID: <345@kontron.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 8-Jul-85 18:29:05 EDT
Article-I.D.: kontron.345
Posted: Mon Jul  8 18:29:05 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 13-Jul-85 10:22:37 EDT
References: <657@whuxl.UUCP> <2380051@acf4.UUCP> <373@spar.UUCP> <321@kontron.UUCP> <383@spar.UUCP>
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA
Lines: 34

> > > > Human beings are individals.  They form societies for mutual benefit,
> > > > i.e., to facilitate achievement of their individual goals.
> > > > 
> > > > 						Mike Sykora
> > > 
> > > Can you cite a single instance of a lasting human society (not a club 
> > > or other special-interest organization) being formed by the rational 
> > > agreement of otherwise atomic human beings?  If not, on what basis are 
> > > you making this assertion?   There is disagreement among anthropologists 
> > > about how human societies form and develop, but it would appear that man
> > > is an *instinctively* social animal.  Do you have evidence to the contrary?
> > > 
> > > 						Baba
> > 
> > Plymouth Compact.  The original government of Rhode Island.
> > 
> > Those come right off the top of my head.
> >
> >						Clayton Cramer
> 
> You should dig deeper, then. The parties to the cited agreements were
> already socialized in English culture, with established and agreed-upon
> notions of individual and familial obligation, commerce, and common law.
> 
> 						Baba

Already socialized, yes, but not legally compelled to continue in those
patterns.  In fact, they did not follow in those patterns.  Both examples
are notable for the manner in which the governments they formed were
*different* from English society: Plymouth Colony, in that they did not
create a nobility; Rhode Island, in that they were tolerant of dissenting
religious opinions.

In fact, these societies were formed from atomic individuals.