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From: barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold)
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Subject: NO Saving Throw
Message-ID: <2145@sdcrdcf.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 12-Jul-85 10:16:37 EDT
Article-I.D.: sdcrdcf.2145
Posted: Fri Jul 12 10:16:37 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 04:43:08 EDT
References: <438@busch.UUCP> <1453@shark.UUCP>
Reply-To: barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold)
Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica
Lines: 37
Summary: 

I'd like to go on record as intensely disliking No Saving Throw spells.
This particularly applies to No Saving Throw and You Die spells.  I view
the saving throw as the victim's chance of pulling off a minor protective
magic (something like crossing one's fingers and saying "Avert!).  Anyone
can do it; mages have a MUCH better chance of doing it right.  Dwarves
are good at it but lousy at normal offensive magic.

But whatever you think a saving throw is, it feels *wrong* for someone to
be able to significantly affect a victim on a 100% chance basis.  No roll
to hit, no chance of dodging/parrying:  just DOOM!

The problem is that D&D saving throws get too easy as you go up levels.
In LANDS OF ADVENTURE, the saving throw is based on your PRUDENCE or
CONSTITUTION (your choice of which you want to use; a group can rely on
one person's PRU) affected by the Intensity of the Spell AND by the
number of Energy Points the victim uses to "fight off" the spell.  You
could borrow a trick from this and give people a chance of fighting off
No Sving Throw D&D spells:  say, 10% per HP given up.

As for Alignment Changing:  I used to let tempter types (like succubi,
vampires) change alignment gradually (Good to Neutral took three melee
rounds, Neutral to Evil another three melee rounds; you could delay the
change each time you saved).  Changing the person back could be done by
Neutralize Curse.

I think I know what the GM was getting at, though.  In his case, I might
have instead offered the character a choice:  you can either go to Evil
and be ONE LEVEL HIGHER or stay the level and alignment you are.  I've
had a lot of fun with offering people tempting choices.  Much more than I'd
get from NO Saving Throw spells or You Can't Take It Off magic items.
Instead I offer Rings of +3 Protection to anyone who betrayed a friend to
death; a cloak embroidered with red drops that makes you a Vampire
of Your Level +4 -- which randomly strikes someone (party or enemy) the
first time on a run it sees blood, etc.  SAnd then watch the players
squirm in agony.

--Lee Gold