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From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen)
Newsgroups: net.origins
Subject: Re: The Scientific Case for Creation: (Part 45)
Message-ID: <557@psivax.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 11-Jul-85 21:33:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: psivax.557
Posted: Thu Jul 11 21:33:29 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 20:29:55 EDT
References: <403@iham1.UUCP>
Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen)
Distribution: net
Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA
Lines: 60
Summary: 

In article <403@iham1.UUCP> rck@iham1.UUCP (Ron Kukuk) writes:
>
>     THE SCIENTIFIC CASE FOR CREATION: 116 CATEGORIES OF EVIDENCE
>
>II. (Astronomical Sciences): THE UNIVERSE, THE SOLAR SYSTEM, AND  LIFE
>    WERE RECENTLY CREATED.
>
>    C.  MOST DATING TECHNIQUES  INDICATE  THAT  THE  EARTH  AND  SOLAR
>        SYSTEM ARE YOUNG.
>
>       86.  Stars  that  are  moving  in   the   same   direction   at
>            significantly   different   speeds  frequently  travel  in
>            closely-spaced clusters [a]. This would not be the case if
>            they had been traveling for billions of years because even
>            the slightest difference in their velocities  would  cause
>            their  dispersal after such great periods of time. Similar
>            observations have been made of galaxy and of galaxy-quasar
>            combinations   that   apparently   have  vastly  different
>            velocities but which appear to be connected [b-d].
>
	Such incredible misconceptions about astronomy! There are
essentially three kinds of star clusters, galactic clusters, globular
clusters, and galaxies. Galactic clusters are loose aggregates made up
of hot, *young* stars, and are *clearly* new formations due to
clustered star formation in dense gas clouds. Thus the above statement
is *correct* about such clusters, and no-one I have ever heard
disagrees, but since these clusters are only a few million yrs old
there is no conflict with standard cosmogony. The other two types
of clusters are *gravitationally* bound, that is they are composed of
stars mutually orbiting one another. Certainly they may show
variations in instantaneous velocity, which if extrapolated linearly
would predict dissolution of the cluster, *but* gravity enters the
picture and changes the stars' velocities over time.	
>
>       87.  Galaxies are often found in tight  clusters  that  contain
>            hundreds   of   galaxies.   The   apparent  velocities  of
>            individual galaxies within these clusters are so  high  in
>            comparison  to  the  calculated mass of the entire cluster
>            that these clusters should be flying apart. But since  the
>            galaxies within clusters are so close together, they could
>            not have been flying apart for very long. A 10-20  billion
>            year  old universe is completely inconsistent with what we
>            see [a-d].
>
	This is slightly inaccurate, the velocities are inconsistant
with the *observable* mass of the clusters. Considering that we can
only see matter that is radiating this leaves a wide scope for enough
dark, unradiating matter to correct the "problem". Admittedly this is
probably one of the least well understood areas mentioned in these
pamphlets, *but* one minor inconsistancy is hardly sufficient to throw
out almost all of modern science in favor of a supernaturalistic
"explanation". You must also provide evidence that *no* dark matter
of sufficient mass exists before this can be made into a really
telling point.
-- 

				Sarima (Stanley Friesen)

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