Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2(pesnta.1.2) 9/5/84; site idsvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!crsp!pesnta!idsvax!steiny From: steiny@idsvax.UUCP (Don Steiny) Newsgroups: net.women,net.flame Subject: Re: Re: Women/men and the consumption of toilet paper (Rape & dress) Message-ID: <178@idsvax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 26-Jun-85 01:00:28 EDT Article-I.D.: idsvax.178 Posted: Wed Jun 26 01:00:28 1985 Date-Received: Thu, 27-Jun-85 04:49:08 EDT References: <464@ttidcc.UUCP> <465@gitpyr.UUCP> <2345@topaz.ARPA> <490@gitpyr.UUCP> Organization: Independent Consultant - C/UNIX, Natural Language Lines: 52 Xref: watmath net.women:6089 net.flame:10795 > > . . .if the woman > dresses in a fashion that broadcasts that fact that she is desirable, she at > least should accept that she attracted the rape by her manner of dress. Your > life is yours to live as you see fit, but if you play with knives you will get > cut. > -- > Roy J. Mongiovi. Office of Computing Services. User Services. This is predicated on the assumption that what motivates rape is overwhelming sexual desire. Read "Soul On Ice." Rape is a violent crime, the rapist does not rape for sexual gratification, he rapes with angry violence. The idea that a woman solicits the rape by he mode of dress is not addressing the crime. Rape is more akin to racial violence, and often it is a part of racial violence, both in and out of prison. Women are raped simply because they are women, in prison men are often raped. They are raped to establish dominance and protection. Many states have recognized that women can be raped by their husbands. Rape is a method that extremely powerless individuals use to convince themselves that they have power. The idea that rape is caused sexual desire is not appropriate. Since it does not reflect the actual real world instances of rape (you looked so ravishing tonight dear that I had to rape you), it is not a useful model. Besides not appropriately modeling the facts of the situation, the idea that women can somehow bring it on themselves is counter productive. If a women who believes this is raped, she would be less likely to take appropriate action against the man, being trained to believe that there is something she could have done to prevent it. The idea that rape is cause by overwheleming sexual desire, in this day of psychological defenses, makes is seem like you are making the rapist "not guilty by reason of insanity." (You know, jury, he was an all around good guy, went to church on Sunday, coached little league, but .., well, I guess he had too many sex hormones. When that little cheerleader went by, he just went apeshit But, look, she was asking for it, and boys will be boys . . . The doctors are sure that she will recover her speech almost completely . . .). There is a group in Santa Cruz called "Men Against Rape." If you are ever around here, give them a call. On of their councilers will be glad to talk to you about violence against women. pesnta!idsvax!steiny Don Steiny - Computational Linguistics 109 Torrey Pine Terr. Santa Cruz, Calif. 95060 (408) 425-0832