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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Re: Re: freedom and unpredictability
Message-ID: <1151@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 2-Jul-85 18:52:09 EDT
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1151
Posted: Tue Jul  2 18:52:09 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 3-Jul-85 20:32:10 EDT
References: <325@spar.UUCP> <27500082@ISM780B.UUCP> <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> <541@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week
Lines: 37
Keywords: external

>In article <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes:
>>You mean like quoting the dictionary definition of free will?  I've done
>>that repeatedly.
>
> I must have missed this. [PAUL TOREK]

Obviously.  I'd used a number of dictionary definitions, including
American Heritage.

>>I reiterate in case
>>you missed it the first time:  "the belief that man's choices ultimately
>>are or can be voluntary AND NOT DETERMINED BY EXTERNAL CAUSES" is the
>>operative definition (or one of them offering a similar perspective).

> Which dictionary was that?

Why do you ask?  You "sound" almost as if you don't believe your "ears",
or that you doubt my word.  As I said above, American Heritage, which tends
to be a more objective dictionary than Webster's, for example.  (Compare
the two dictionaries' definitions for "scientism".)

> Anyway, a tricky word here is "external".  I
> suggest you look that one up, keeping in mind that the question "external
> to what" would seem to have the answer "man" or "volition ( based on the definition quoted.

Not at all, Paul.  My first guess is "outside of the boundaries of".
In looking it up, I find that summarizes most of the definitions, but I
include another here for your own comments:  "4.  Existing
independently of the mind; objective; phenomenal."  In any case, external
causes would refer to the actions of the physical world as having an effect
on the mind or brain, which is what I've been contending all along---the
outside world, the physical world itself, is what has effects on the rational
evaluative analysis process, thus not making it free.
-- 
Like a turban (HEY!), worn for the very first time...
			Rich Rosen   ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr