Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: The Scientific Case for Creation: (Part 45) Message-ID: <557@psivax.UUCP> Date: Thu, 11-Jul-85 21:33:29 EDT Article-I.D.: psivax.557 Posted: Thu Jul 11 21:33:29 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 20:29:55 EDT References: <403@iham1.UUCP> Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Distribution: net Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Lines: 60 Summary: In article <403@iham1.UUCP> rck@iham1.UUCP (Ron Kukuk) writes: > > THE SCIENTIFIC CASE FOR CREATION: 116 CATEGORIES OF EVIDENCE > >II. (Astronomical Sciences): THE UNIVERSE, THE SOLAR SYSTEM, AND LIFE > WERE RECENTLY CREATED. > > C. MOST DATING TECHNIQUES INDICATE THAT THE EARTH AND SOLAR > SYSTEM ARE YOUNG. > > 86. Stars that are moving in the same direction at > significantly different speeds frequently travel in > closely-spaced clusters [a]. This would not be the case if > they had been traveling for billions of years because even > the slightest difference in their velocities would cause > their dispersal after such great periods of time. Similar > observations have been made of galaxy and of galaxy-quasar > combinations that apparently have vastly different > velocities but which appear to be connected [b-d]. > Such incredible misconceptions about astronomy! There are essentially three kinds of star clusters, galactic clusters, globular clusters, and galaxies. Galactic clusters are loose aggregates made up of hot, *young* stars, and are *clearly* new formations due to clustered star formation in dense gas clouds. Thus the above statement is *correct* about such clusters, and no-one I have ever heard disagrees, but since these clusters are only a few million yrs old there is no conflict with standard cosmogony. The other two types of clusters are *gravitationally* bound, that is they are composed of stars mutually orbiting one another. Certainly they may show variations in instantaneous velocity, which if extrapolated linearly would predict dissolution of the cluster, *but* gravity enters the picture and changes the stars' velocities over time. > > 87. Galaxies are often found in tight clusters that contain > hundreds of galaxies. The apparent velocities of > individual galaxies within these clusters are so high in > comparison to the calculated mass of the entire cluster > that these clusters should be flying apart. But since the > galaxies within clusters are so close together, they could > not have been flying apart for very long. A 10-20 billion > year old universe is completely inconsistent with what we > see [a-d]. > This is slightly inaccurate, the velocities are inconsistant with the *observable* mass of the clusters. Considering that we can only see matter that is radiating this leaves a wide scope for enough dark, unradiating matter to correct the "problem". Admittedly this is probably one of the least well understood areas mentioned in these pamphlets, *but* one minor inconsistancy is hardly sufficient to throw out almost all of modern science in favor of a supernaturalistic "explanation". You must also provide evidence that *no* dark matter of sufficient mass exists before this can be made into a really telling point. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen