Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site sdcc6.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!cbdkc1!desoto!packard!hoxna!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!timeinc!phri!pesnta!amd!amdcad!decwrl!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!bmcg!sdcc6!ir278 From: ir278@sdcc6.UUCP (Paul Anderson) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Re: Disposition of Aborted Fetuses Message-ID: <2134@sdcc6.UUCP> Date: Sat, 29-Jun-85 07:01:22 EDT Article-I.D.: sdcc6.2134 Posted: Sat Jun 29 07:01:22 1985 Date-Received: Tue, 2-Jul-85 05:46:19 EDT References: <855@bunker.UUCP> <863@bunker.UUCP> <160@idsvax.UUCP> <866@bunker.UUCP> <165@idsvax.UUCP> <2124@sdcc6.UUCP> <525@bunkerb.UUCP> Reply-To: ir278@sdcc6.UUCP (Paul Anderson) Distribution: net Organization: U.C. San Diego, Academic Computer Center Lines: 93 In article <525@bunkerb.UUCP> garys@bunkerb.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson) writes: >> There are a lot of complaints about what is being done with >> aborted fetus for purposes of cosmetics and medical research. >> Isn't this a bit hypocritical considering what is done with >> full-grown animals for the same purposes? >In the first place, the topic for this newsgroup is abortion. >You are trying to divert attention from the issue at hand. What is done with an aborted fetus is very valid to net.abortion and being discussed under other subject headers already. If some rich old lady gets to wear a coat made from the hides of a dozen senselessly slaughtered minks when she could wear wool or cotton, for which nothing died, then it is equally justified for an aborted fetus to be ground into an expensive facial cream to be used by the same old lady. Aren't humanity and sensible morals the theme of the abortion disputes? >In the second place, you are assuming that I approve of whatever >it is you have in mind (about which you are pretty vague), an >assumption which is totally unsupported. And, no, I don't want >to discuss it in this newsgroup -- this is net.abortion. I am repeating what has been and still is discussed on and outside the net. Fetuses thrown into trash compactors. Fetuses used in far-reaching scientific and medical experiments. Parts of fetuses being used in European facial creams. Fetuses being varnished and used as hood ornaments (just kidding). Take your pick. If the baby is expected to die, it may as well serve some useful purpose. It may even save another infant's life. Suppose a doctor uses a live aborted fetus to see how long it can stay alive exposed. Later a baby is born prematurely far from a hospital. When the medics arrive (or the baby at the hospital), they will know from the fetus experiment whether or not the infant can still be sustained, when before they might have already given up and assumed it was too late. >> Also, when I die, much of my >> body will be used for medical purposes, donations and research. >> Is this any different? >Yes, it is your choice what happens to your body. The fetus is >not given a choice in an abortion. A fetus cannot make a choice. Ever see a baby complain about the color of its pajamas? However, a pregnant 16-year old girl whose body cannot withstand bearing a child will certainly be able to make a choice between bad injury and stopping someone who doesn't make any difference in the world, even to himself, from being born. >> What should be done with an aborted fetus? >"When did you stop beating your wife?" I think the fetus should >be allowed to live; it should not be aborted in the first place. >But in many cases of abortion, even those fetuses who manage to survive >the abortion are not allowed to live. This was not a no-win question. Most aborted fetuses do not live. If those who can survive are to be sustained, it is the responsibility of the mother who had it aborted to see to this, as she chose to have it aborted. It is not my responsibility nor yours. >> Bury it? What good is a grave for nobody if the fetus never lived >> to become somebody? >The fetus did live, for a little while at least. But you are saying >that the fetus is "nobody" -- how are you able to tell when a fetus >becomes "somebody"? That's right, the fetus is nobody. It knows no one, has no name, matters to no one, is not aware of anyone, and has no reason to care. It never made any difference by its own volition in the world, hence it is nobody. >Graves do not benefit the dead in any case (personal opinion). >This looks like another attempt to divert the discussion, but >I'll give you my two cents worth: Graves, funerals, etc. are for >the benefit of the living. It is a way for the living to show >their respect for the deceased. Therefore, to bury an aborted >fetus would show respect for the individual which died -- respect >which is lacking in a lot of people. This is not an attempt at a diversion, I have tried no such thing. "Bury it" was an example of what someone might suggest. Some people obviously thought putting parts of them into cosmetics was a good idea. Living? You yourself said that the only living an aborted fetus does is for a little while; this is composed of such dynamic actions as: divide, shuffle, kick. Again by my "nobody" argument, there is no individual to respect. The fetus never developed into an individual. >Gary Samuelson >ittvax!bunker!garys Paul Anderson sdcsvax!sdcc6!ir278