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From: jeand@ihlpg.UUCP (AMBAR)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: freedom/responsibility
Message-ID: <802@ihlpg.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 10-Jul-85 13:57:32 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihlpg.802
Posted: Wed Jul 10 13:57:32 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 12-Jul-85 00:54:03 EDT
References: <385@cmu-cs-spice.ARPA> <329@mit-vax.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 55

> No, I don't think he is. The question is: can the creature/lump of
> tissue (not BABY) survive without its mother? A newborn can. 
          ^^^^^^^^  Why not?

> >A human fetus has human chromosomes that are different from the ones which
> >belong to its parents.  It is not a 'tissue outgrowth' or an 'organ' of the
> >woman's body, but a separate individual.
> 
> It is too! Your sperm cells contain genetic information different from
> yourself. 
 
That's not what I learned in junior high health class.  Sperm cells have
half of the man's genetic material.  Where would it come from otherwise?

Come to think of it, I wish we could get off this argument 'sperm (egg)
cells have genetic material too, why don't you....etc etc ad nauseam.
Sex cells are haploid (no pairs).  Every other cell in the body is
diploid (full 46.)  Therefore, comparing a fetus (or a fertilized egg)
with a single sex cell is comparing apples and bananas.

Is there a biologist in the house?

> Furthermore, as an individual, who is more important? The woman who has
> gone through 16+ years of life, experience and (possibly) contribution
> to society, or a fetus which has done nothing but grow inside her body?
 
Who gave you the right to decide who is more important?  Do we now have 
to earn the right to life?  Boy, have I got some nominations for late-
late-late term abortions (say 30 years or so.....)

> > (a) If I don't want the baby, it must be "trespassing", and
>                           ^^^^  fetus! you #@%$^&@$ muckraker!
                          	  ^^^^^  ditto.

> We kill lots of living organisms. The other day, I saw a car with two
> bumper stickers: ABORTION IS MURDER and MORE NUKES, LESS KOOKS. I don't
> know how to take pro-lifers seriously anymore. Such conditional morality
> is dangerous. Why are fetuses, who's social value is purely sentimental
> and philisophical, so important when full grow people, who have made
> their make on life, so expendable? Its scary.

So you're going to file all pro-lifers in the same folder as the owner
of that car.  Why don't I put you in the same drawer as the people who
are going on to infanticide (only handicapped infants, of course, the
ones who could never enjoy life anyway), euthanasia, and so forth?

Answer:  you're a human being and I respect you.  Though sometimes I
wonder why.

-- 

					AMBAR
                    	{the known universe}!ihnp4!ihlpg!jeand
"You shouldn't let people drive you crazy when you know it's within
	walking distance."