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From: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Changing Roles
Message-ID: <281@timeinc.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 9-Jul-85 10:52:53 EDT
Article-I.D.: timeinc.281
Posted: Tue Jul  9 10:52:53 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Jul-85 06:24:38 EDT
References: <251@timeinc.UUCP> <448@tymix.UUCP> <257@timeinc.UUCP> <5467@tektronix.UUCP> <274@timeinc.UUCP> <5481@tektronix.UUCP>
Reply-To: greenber@timeinc.UUCP (Ross M. Greenberg)
Distribution: net
Organization: Time, Inc. - New York
Lines: 108
Summary: 

In article <5481@tektronix.UUCP> moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison ) writes:
(Quoting me)
>
>>So I have to ask you outright:  What do I represent to you??
>
>...  I assure you there are few (if any) qualities 
>that I would ascribe to the whole class of males.   What I responded
>to was the Ross as I know you, from your previous postings here and
>in net.singles.  I replied from a sincere *personal* perspective.  
>It is clear from your response that it was not what *I represented 
>to you*...  so we both get to practice :-)
>

Okey doke .... I can accept that:  you responded as you know me from
what I have said, and not on generalities.  Hell, that's the only
request I usually have from people.  If I fail in that regard, then
I have only myself to blame!

Thank you.

(Regarding my anger at people turning their noses up on me holding open
 a door for them):
>
>You just answered your own question.  Don't take it *personally*.  If 
>someone is insulted because you open the door for her, her anger
>is *her* problem.  If you let her anger affect you, and how you behave,
>it's *your* problem.....
>

It just doesn't feel good:  there I am, going out of my way to be nice,
and I have to take it on head.  And then my only response is to sit back 
and turn the other check, or mix some more metaphors!  
The silly thing is that this same woman might be at my next meeting and 
might comment on sexist policies of men, whilst she herself is sexist!


>Funny thing, I responded to *you* personally....
>.....  But your response has a flavor of
>lumping me in with all of antagonistic feminists of net.women.  (Please
>note that I use antagonistic as a qualifier, not a general descriptor).
>
Hmmmmm. He who knows how to make words say exactly what is desired may
cast the first stone.... As my ex-wife (a writer) would say:
"Damn these words! They don't say what I want them to!"

Certainly I had no desire to appear to be classing *you* as a member of
any group.  Remember that when I write to you in this public forum,
I expect this to be read by many (and flamed by a few, but oh well).

>
>>This is not to downplay the issue of rape, BTW.  But after being told
>>that I, as a member of a class, am not trustworthy to walk you home,
>>what makes you think that I am capable  of educating my fellow "men"
>>in issues regarding rape to your satisfaction?
>
>Ross, I think you are missing the point.  I did not say that no man
>is trustworthy of walking me home.  I said that I might not want to
>make that decision based on a few minutes of conversation.

As the above mentioned wife would say:"When someone says that
you've missed the point, it means you haven't expressed yourself
clearly!".  I'll give it another shot:

The majority of postings in this group tend to say such things
as "Men will never understand what it feels like to be raped."

I agree with that, but many posters feel that this means that men's
opinions on rape are not valid.  But these same posters will turn
around and expect that the horror of rape can somehow be alleviated
by this same men talking to their fellow men.  It just doesn't seem
to be consisent with the attitudes displayed.

In fact it seems to be (dare I say it? Sure!) hypocritical!

>....  Whining about it reactively won't change a thing.  ....

This is not a whine, BTW.  Just some comments on the postings in
this group generally, and on being a male specifically....

>
>Seriously, Ross, it is the most radical members of this newsgroup
>who treat you as simply a member of a class....

But it is these same members here that demand the most and are willing
to insult to get it.  Again, I say:"Hypocrit!" to these radical
members.  You know who you are!

>
>At the risk of overgeneralizing [:-)], I would venture to say that we are
>all guilty of overgeneralization sometimes.  
>


Who me???  I have never OVERgeneralized in my life :-)  But then I'm
really cool.......

>Moira Mallison
>tektronix!moiram


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross M. Greenberg  @ Time Inc, New York 
              --------->{ihnp4 | vax135}!timeinc!greenber<---------

I highly doubt that Time Inc. they would make me their spokesperson.