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From: keesan@bbnccv.UUCP (Morris M. Keesan)
Newsgroups: net.music.classical
Subject: Re: ives
Message-ID: <229@bbnccv.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 16-Jul-85 17:37:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: bbnccv.229
Posted: Tue Jul 16 17:37:50 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 18-Jul-85 05:08:48 EDT
References: <2843@decwrl.UUCP> <60@bbnccv.UUCP> <2270@ut-sally.UUCP>
Reply-To: keesan@bbnccv.UUCP (Morris M. Keesan)
Organization: Bolt Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 39
Keywords: Variations on "God Save the Queen"

In article <60@bbnccv.UUCP> I wrote
>>     One of my favorite Ives pieces is his "Variations on America".  Ives
>> originally wrote it for organ, and it was arranged for orchestra by William
>> Schumann (who won a Pulitzer this year).  I happen to think that the
>> transcription for concert band of Schumann's arrangement is the most successful
>> of the three.  Neither the organ nor the orchestra has quite the right range
>> of timbres to give the proper character to each variation.

In article <2270@ut-sally.UUCP> crandell@ut-sally.UUCP (Jim Crandell) writes:
>
>Sorry, but I must disagree here.  Yes, I have heard the band transcription
>(can't remember where) and if it's played with conviction, it comes off
>awfully well.  It's not really surprising that the band sound seems more
>appropriate to Ives's youthful boisterousness than the orchestra; Ives was
>raised a bandman, and to some extent he remained one all his life.  But the
>truly correct medium for this piece is the original.  Trouble is, there are
>a lot of really wimpy recordings of it lying around.
[. . . example given of wimpy recording, with precision but no exuberance . . .]
>
>Now, on an old Nonesuch release, you'll find the late Dick Elsasser playing
>it much more like the way Ives himself probably played it (not that Elsasser's
>performance isn't precise; but what that organ does -- at an appropriately
>rousing tempo, especially -- often isn't), and it's more fun than, oh, mebbe
>four-five barrel o' monkeys.  The album also includes Ives's chorale prelude
>on Adeste Fideles, a jewel of magical simplicity which is far too seldom heard.
>Recorded on the mellow monster of the Hammond Museum (John, not Laurens),
>which is a topic in and unto itself. 

Well, I think we'll just agree to disagree here.  The only recording I've heard
of the organ version turns out to be the Nonesuch release you recommend
("Yankee Organ Music" played by Elsasser), and after giving it a re-listen,
I'm unconvinced.  I'm not going to get involved in debating what a "correct"
medium for anything is, but I think that the band version just "works" better.
Even the best of organs (and the Hammond Museum organ is definitely in the
running) can't get the range of tone colors inherent in even a mediocre band.
Of course, I may be biased, having been a band musician for more than half my
life, but in this case, I think even the orchestral version works better than
the original.  The variations in instrumentation give a whole extra dimension
to the variations in notes, far beyond what changing stops can do.