Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sfmag.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!samet From: samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Capital Punishment Message-ID: <619@sfmag.UUCP> Date: Sun, 30-Jun-85 00:35:42 EDT Article-I.D.: sfmag.619 Posted: Sun Jun 30 00:35:42 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 3-Jul-85 06:49:48 EDT Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Summit, NJ Lines: 65 >> The sin of male homosexuality is punishable by death by skila (stoning). > Samet tells us what the Torah view of homosexuality. The question is: > Is it Samet's view that homosexuals should be treated nowadays according > to the Torah? [Yosi Hoshen] 1) Samet's view is that everything should always be done according to the Torah. 2) According to the Torah, capital crimes can only be tried when the Bais Hamikdosh (Temple) is standing and the Beis Din Hagadol (Supreme Rabbinical Court) is residing there (in which case they can also be tried elsewhere.) Fourty years before the destruction of the second Bais Hamikdosh the Sanhedrin was exiled and capital trials ceased. (reference:Maimonides, Mishna Torah, Sefer Shoftim, Hilchos Sanhedrin, Perek 14, Halacha 11-13) 3) When the Temple is rebuilt and the Sanhedrin is reconstituted (after the coming of Moshiach) capital punishment will be reinstituted. > If his answer is yes then I would have to agree with Rich on the issue. [Yosi Hoshen] People have justifiably complained about redundant rhetoric over this issue. Out of respect for Yosi, I will answer briefly, while trying to refrain from saying anything that is not new. Yes, the Torah does prescribe capital punishment for things like sexual sins and shabbos violation. In fact, it contains an account in which a shabbos violater was executed in Moshe's time. This fact may surprise those Jews who imagine that the Torah is very much in tune with modern American values. Now, along comes someone and says "The Torah considers xyz to be a capital crime." This information may be quite disturbing to such people. They can react in different ways. Here are a few: 1) verify that the Torah is not what they thought it was, and adjust to that reality, no matter how uncomfortable it may be 2) ignore what is openly stated in the Torah, and cling to wishful preconceptions 3) attack the person who makes disturbing revelations about the Torah rather than deal with the uncomfortable dissonance between the Torah and modern values After stating the fact the Torah prescribes the death penalty for homosexuality, I've been dismissed as a crackpot (for misrepresenting the Torah) and compared to a Nazi for believing in it. The crackpot charge is escapist, since it can be easily verified that there is no misrepresentation. The Nazi charge shifts attention to me rather than to the Torah, which is the source of my view. I would reverse the charge as follows: According to your reasoning, you should compare Judaism with Nazism. Why do you avoid that conclusion? I think it's because you recognize that such a comparison is ludicrous. If so, what does that say about your reasoning? Yitzchok Samet