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From: baba@spar.UUCP (Baba ROM DOS)
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: Libertarians in Space
Message-ID: <384@spar.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 5-Jul-85 18:41:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: spar.384
Posted: Fri Jul  5 18:41:29 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Jul-85 20:13:43 EDT
References: <446@qantel.UUCP> <454@qantel.UUCP> <293@kontron.UUCP> <377@spar.UUCP> <322@kontron.UUCP>
Organization: Schlumberger Palo Alto Research, CA
Lines: 37

>>>There are many motivations besides self-interest and greed --- but there
>>>are no so certain (sic) to be present in almost all people, almost all the
>>>time.  The socialists assume that most people will look out for the interests
>>>of the society as a whole; libertarians assume that most people will
>>>look out for their own interests.
>>>
>>>					Clayton Cramer
>> 
>> Not quite.  The socialists assume that people will *not* look out
>> for the interests of society as a whole, exactly what you ascribe to
>> the libertarian position.  The difference is that the socialists assume
>> that the interests of society as a whole *should* be looked after, and
>> since they think no one else will, they rightly or wrongly expect 
>> government to do so.
>> 
>>					Baba ROM DOS
>
> The non-competitive environment of a socialist system creates tremendous
> opportunities for fraud and corruption, since a state-owned enterprise
> is in no danger of going bankrupt.  Socialists have long assumed that
> under the influence of socialism, man will become less corrupt.  The
> Soviet Union, for example, talks a lot about creating a "True Socialist
> Man", who is concerned first for the society, and secondarily for himself,
> because they recognize that individual self-interest makes their whole
> system collapse in corruption and bribery.
>
>					Clayton Cramer

This is a non-rebuttal.  Even if the Soviet Union were a universally
accepted paradigm of socialism, if socialists feel that "most people 
will look out for the interests of society as a whole", as you stated in 
your earlier posting excerpted above, why would they need to create a 
"True Socialist Man"?  Wouldn't they already have one?  Why would they 
worry about the effects of individual self-interest on their system?  
Why would they see a need to coerce anyone?  

						Baba