Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site unc.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!unc!fsks
From: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Newsgroups: net.singles,net.social
Subject: Re: Salemanship (Warning: long, but entertaining!)
Message-ID: <546@unc.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 5-Jul-85 16:07:16 EDT
Article-I.D.: unc.546
Posted: Fri Jul  5 16:07:16 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 9-Jul-85 12:21:43 EDT
References: <968@peora.UUCP> <1424@mtx5b.UUCP> 
Reply-To: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Organization: CS Dept., U. of N. Carolina at Chapel Hill
Lines: 73
Xref: watmath net.singles:7676 net.social:800
Summary: 


Frank Silbermann:
>> Besides, what about the problem of _INITIATING_ a relationship,
>> i.e. getting that first date?  I will agree that coldly manipulative
>> people do not do so well in relationships over the long haul, but
>> they often do well at starting relationships.

J. Eric Roskos:
>Frank, I will agree with you for a change!  This has always seemed a sad
>thing for me;

You're probably not the only one who feels that agreeing with me is a sad thing.
:-)

J. Eric Roskos:
>              that having known many male-type people very well, and a
>reasonable number of female-type people fairly well, I have observed many
>times that reasonably intelligent female-type people still get easily
>"taken in" by the male-type people with the cleverest "sales pitches,"
>even though often those were the ones I thought were the less-desirable
>people due to their tendency to distort things in a way intended to look
>the best.  And have also observed that in the long run many times things
>did not work out all that well, for that reason.
>
>However, maybe this is just the old "what does he/she see in her/him"
>question.  I must confess that I have an extreme dislike for people who
>don't tell me the truth about things, and this is largely why I perceived
>the above-mentioned people as "less desirable".  At the same time I have
>seen that many people seem to exist in a frame of reference in which this
>distortion-of-reality is expected, even desirable, and although this is
>a frame of reference I don't understand, perhaps it is no less reasonable
>than mine...

Can it be an honest difference is style?  Do you see the wine glass as
half empty or half full?

As I grew up, I automatically adopted my parents' style, which they
got from their parents, which ultimately derived from Eastern European
superstitions about the evil eye.  For those of you who haven't yet
read Leo Rosten's "The Joys of Yiddish", let me explain.  The evil eye
is a devil whose job it is to make trouble for people on Earth (perhaps
to test their faith in God, as Satan did with Job).  If ever you admit that
things are going too well, or that your are too satisfied or comfortable,
the evil eye might hear you and realize that he has forgotten to torment
you lately.  If that happens, the good times are over.

To counteract this, Jews try to complain as much as possible.
Complain about your ill health; complain about how terrible your wife is;
complain about your political leaders; complain about anything and everything.
Doing so will fool the evil eye, by making him think he has caused enough
trouble for you already, so he might go away and leave you alone.

Gentiles that I grew up with in Palatka Florida didn't understand this
attitude.  Oddly, they found being around me to be unhealthy and depressing.
They preferred a more Protestant attitude like Rev. Norman Vincent Peal's
"The Power of Positive Thinking."  I'll give an example of the use of this
philosphy in sports.  If you go into a match expecting to lose, then you
WILL lose.  If you expect to win, or at least if you believe that you have
a good chance of winning, then you may well win, even if the opposition
has a reputation of USUALLY playing better than you do.
That's why at the beginning of baseball season, so many team managers
tell the sportswriters that they expect to win the pennent this year.
Though most of them will end up with quite undistinguished seasons.

Let's get back to social relations.  If you tell a woman or yourself,
that you're just looking for an easy lay, that's all you'll get,
if you get anything at all.  But if you tell her that you respect her,
that this is no common fling, that she really means something to you,
well who knows?  MAYBE such a relationship WILL grow, after all!
If not, well, you tried!

Positive thinking doesn't come easily to me, but I'm working on it!
	Frank Silbermann