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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!mhuxm!abeles
From: abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (J. Abeles (Bellcore, Murray Hill, NJ))
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Nausea ad Nauseum
Message-ID: <401@mhuxm.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 8-Jul-85 11:04:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: mhuxm.401
Posted: Mon Jul  8 11:04:14 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 9-Jul-85 06:11:30 EDT
References: <622@sfmag.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
Lines: 50

Samet says,
> 3 - If there were a  net.atheism  or  net.antireligion   I  would
> consider it inappropriate to harass contributors of that net with
> my beliefs...
> 4 - When addressing net.religion.jewish, I feel free  to  express
> Torah views, as such, without having to prove the axioms of Torah
> belief as a precondition for expressing these views. If there are
> atheistic  contributors, I  would hope that they remain cognizant
> of  the context of this net, just as I would if I were writing in
> net.atheism.
> 5 -  Within  net.religion,jewish,  I  am  willing  to  engage  in
> discourse  with  anyone  who is sincerely interested in exploring
> the Jewish religion.
>                                 Yitzchok Samet

In response, I will say that I am profoundly upset by the language
used by Samet here and during past postings which is offensive to
those who are not "orthopractic" like Samet and who disagree with
his ripping-off (along with others of his ilk) of the word "torah"
to describe only his narrowly-practiced "orthopractic" brand of
orthodox Judaism.

I would hope it to be obvious to all who read Samet's comments that
net.religion.jewish should not, as Samet claims, serve as a protected
area for only one form of Judaism.  Samet would like to equate Judaism
with his beliefs, and those of his cronies.  But Orthodox Judaism
of today (if indeed he is really representative of it, which I question)
is only one form of Judaism.  It cannot, as Samet has claimed in the
past, be considered as the only true heir to historical Judaism, but
rather formed during the past approximately 150 years as Ashkenazi
Jews in Europe had to decide whether to shut themselves off from
secular society as transportation and communication technologies
began to integrate societies.  Samet's orthopractic form of Judaism
strives both to be true to traditional values, and also to prevent
the dissolution of orthopractic culture (only a subset of which is
actually Jewish culture) through total separation to the maximum
degree possible from secular culture.  The fact that he participates
in the activities of this net is, for him, a troubling break from
this separation which explains why people like him are in such
small representation.  Economic factors explain the increasing
participation of orthopractic Jews in workplaces involving computing
which allow in certain ways a maximum of separation from the
secular world compared to other types of work.

In spite of the strong language I don't know Samet personally and
wish to emphasize that I bear no personal dislike of him.  I am
offended by his continuing ripping-off of words like "torah" and
"Judaism" to refer only to his brand of "orthopractic" Judaism.

--J. Abeles