Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site kontron.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!kontron!cramer From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Handgun control (again) Message-ID: <288@kontron.UUCP> Date: Thu, 27-Jun-85 12:53:45 EDT Article-I.D.: kontron.288 Posted: Thu Jun 27 12:53:45 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Jun-85 03:33:22 EDT References: <484@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <> <493@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <> <503@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA Lines: 52 > In article <> steiny@idsvax.UUCP (Don Steiny) writes: > > > >You somehow think that the number of handgun deaths is an argument > >against handguns, but you have never posted any material that > >addresses the issues he raises. For instance, what are > >people who live in rural areas without police protection > >supposed to do to defend themselves? > > False, Don. I *have* posted articles about this. A handgun is not > an adequate means of defense. People who live in rural areas would be > better advised to buy rifles and shotguns for self-protection, if they > want a gun. > Ever tried to carry a rifle or shotgun while working in the garden? Handguns are appropriate when you need your hands free. > >THE POLICE advise people > >around here to get guns and learn how to use them. > > That may be true, Don. But the police chiefs I am acquainted with > do NOT recommend handguns. They recommend shotguns. See the book by > the police chief of San Jose. > And there isn't a sheriff in the whole state of California who supported this last gun control measure; most of the police chiefs in California also opposed it. Police chief McNamara is quite unique. > >Don't forget that Kates has said that violent crime INCREASES > >in areas with strick gun control and he cites the statistics to > >back himself up. > > Wrong again, Don. Look at Washington, D. C., where both the murder > rate and crime rate went down by 25% after a strict gun control law > was enacted there. Look at Massachusetts, where the homicide rate > decreased by 20% after a gun control law enacted there. Look at > Morton Grove, where there have been NO murders and NO suicides since > the passage of its famous handgun ban (in the previous six years, > there were four suicides and three homicides). > What was happening to crime rates in the country as a whole during that same time? Crime rates throughout America are at the lowest rates since 1975; the examples you cited above start around the time that all crime rates in this country declined. (By the way, there were only a few handguns turned in Morton's Grove --- it couldn't have made that much difference.) > Jeff Shallit > University of Chicago I'm not even sure why gun control is an issue --- there is more chance of making marijuana and heroin disappear than handguns --- and there's no chance *at all* of making those two go away.