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From: allen@osu-eddie.UUCP (John Allen)
Newsgroups: net.nlang,net.women
Subject: Re: Gender-Neutral indefinites (all cases)
Message-ID: <418@osu-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 28-Jun-85 17:36:47 EDT
Article-I.D.: osu-eddi.418
Posted: Fri Jun 28 17:36:47 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Jun-85 03:47:36 EDT
References: <697@sphinx.UCHICAGO.UUCP> <706@sphinx.UCHICAGO.UUCP> <303@wuphys.UUCP>
Organization: Ohio State Univ., CIS Dept., Cols, Oh.
Lines: 63
Xref: watmath net.nlang:3291 net.women:6147

> 
> >I'm afraid this means we have to get into the nitty-gritty of specific
> >kinds of constructions.  The simplest question is whether the word comes
> >with a full range of cases (yes, there is a case system in English,
> >for pronouns only); and the answer is yes for THEY, ONE, and YOU (which
> >should also come into the discussion).  Of course it can also be yes
> >for a coinage, but this is something the coiner has to remember to do.
> >So we can ask Bryan to fill in the blanks:
> 
>      Sure.  Why not?
>      Remember my criteria, however: a word that is
> similar enough to the male and female forms to be
> easily substituted.
> >      If the person who forgot these shoes is still here, ZHE should
> >         come claim them.
> 
>      By the way, alternative suggestions to "zhe"
> are welcome.  The word itself is not a sacred cow.
> 
> >      If you see a barefoot person, please tell _____ them to come
> >         to the desk.  (ZHEM ? ZHER ? ZHIM ?)
> 
> him vs. her		Hmmm... HIR? sounds too much like HER.
> 			HEM? Better.  HERM?  Maybe.  Actually,
> 			I like Hem better for reasons to be
> 			explained shortly.
> 
> >      In this terrain, a climber really needs _____
> >         shoes.  (ZHER ? ZHIS ? ZHEIR ?)
> 
> his vs. her		HES. Better yet, HEZ. (There's another
> 			"Z" for you !)
> 
> >      I hope the person who has found the blue suede 9-1/2's will bring
> >         them up here, as they're mine; and I will give
> >         back ____.  (ZHERS ? ZHEIRS ? ZHIS ? ZHIMS ?)
> 
> his vs. hers		HEZ again. (His can be used in both
> 			cases. Why not HEZ?)
> 
> >      I think a true acrobat would give up vodka and in general take
> >         better care of _____.   (ZHEMSELF ?)
> 
> himself vs. herself	HEMSELF.  HERMSELF does not roll
> 			trippingly off the tongue.  That's
> 			why I don't like HERM (above).
> 

> 
> Bryan S. Coughlan            ( Yes, that's right. My first 
> ihnp4!wuphys!bsc 		two initials are B.S. ! )

    There is one major flaw with some of these suggestions if you want them
to be distinct from the already existing pronouns.  In some American
dialects the [I] (as in `pin') and the [E] (as in `pen') have fallen
together before nasals so that both of these words would be pronounced
[pIn].  This also means that the forms `hem' and `hemself' would be
homophonous with `him' and `himself' respectively in these dialects.

                                        John Allen
					Ohio State University
					(UUCP: cbosgd!osu-eddie!allen)
					(CSNet: allen@ohio-state)