Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site watmum.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!watnot!watmum!cdshaw
From: cdshaw@watmum.UUCP (Chris Shaw)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: To Hell With Diplomacy
Message-ID: <182@watmum.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 28-Jun-85 05:36:48 EDT
Article-I.D.: watmum.182
Posted: Fri Jun 28 05:36:48 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 28-Jun-85 06:45:22 EDT
References: <686@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> <171@nvuxb.UUCP> <3185@garfield.UUCP>
Reply-To: cdshaw@watmum.UUCP (Chris Shaw)
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 78

In article <3185@garfield.UUCP> markr@garfield.UUCP (Mark R. Dawson) writes:
>In letter <171@nvuxb.UUCP> mark@nvuxb.UUCP writes,
>> I pissed as hell.  I`m pissed because the U.S. is being held hostage
>> by a few Shiite Lebanese.       [...plus more knee-jerk xenophobia]
>> 

Well, for one thing, the US is NOT being held hostage, some *Americans* are
being held hostage. Tying the nation to this act is exactly what the Shi'ite
terrorists want.  It would be a very good idea if the gov't made it clear that
foreign policy, etc. will in no way be affected by any terrorist act you care to
name. Carter's biggest mistake was to make it look like that he was personally 
responsible for the Iran hostages' fate. It seriously looked as if the US was
a pawn of a bunch of fanatics. Reagan would do better to avoid this.


In article <3185@garfield.UUCP> markr@garfield.UUCP (Mark R. Dawson) writes:

> The only people who see U.S.A. as the world's big brother are you americans.
>If you ever did some traveling into the third world you would find that the 
>United States along with the U.S.S.R. are two of the most hated countries in 
>the world. I remember being told to state my country of origin as Canada and to
>never let people think that you are an american.

I remember being told to wear the maple leaf, too, especially when touring 
Europe. This is more from Europeans' experiences with the general run of US
tourists than from a general & pervasive hatred for the US and all it stands
for. As far as the mindless and baseless charge that the US is hated as much
as the USSR goes, however, I'm afraid you'll have to back this up with facts
instead of bile.


>You shouldn't find these statements to surprising, your governments policies in
>Central and South America and the rest of the developing world do not tend to
>make to many friends.
> How do you expect a Nicaraguan women to accept your ideas of liberty and demo-
>cracy when her only son is killed by U.S. supported right wing scum from the
>Somoza era?    
> 

Good point. But the fact remains that "blame it all on them" is a very easy way
to win popular support. Hitler used this tactic to great effect. 

However, the accusation that "US policies as a whole turn the Third World off"
is nonsense. The US policy of economic aid (not just handouts) to 3W countries
is very effective in making friends abroad. Military-style aid is generally
seen as a far less effective method of making friends.

>
> The main problem with the U.S.A. is that it wants to be in charge of the
>whole damned world. You want to shove your pseudo-democracy down the
>world's throat. The reason americans were held hostage by those 'barbarians 
>in the middle east' was because ... [continuing paragraph of obnoxiousness ]
>

It is all too easy to fall into the trap of believing the propaganda directed
against your enemies. This paragraph of tripe above has the distinct ring of
brainless hate about it. Admittedly, the US is guilty of wanting to re-create
the world in its own image. Also, US vested business interests abroad *do* seem
to figure rather large in the formulation of foreign policy. The real problem
is that the US is too afraid of "the commies" to make a more rational and
sensible foreign policy.

However, "wanting to be in charge" is a foolish claim. The US has never
installed puppet governments anywhere, nor has it ever questioned the right of
locals to self-determination. The Soviet Union, on the other hand, DOES want to
be in charge of the entire world, and has made definite strides in that 
direction by dictating to foreign countries how their governments are to work.

The US has allies across the world, while the USSR has vassal states.

different topic.. Why is this discussion in the last 2 groups listed here ?
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.social,net.women,net.flame


Chris Shaw    watmath!watmum!cdshaw  or  cdshaw@watmath
University of Waterloo
No part of this message may reproduce, store itself in a retrieval system, or
transmit disease, in any form, without the permissiveness of the author.