Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) Newsgroups: net.philosophy Subject: Re: Re: freedom and unpredictability Message-ID: <1151@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Tue, 2-Jul-85 18:52:09 EDT Article-I.D.: pyuxd.1151 Posted: Tue Jul 2 18:52:09 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 3-Jul-85 20:32:10 EDT References: <325@spar.UUCP> <27500082@ISM780B.UUCP> <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> <541@umcp-cs.UUCP> Organization: Whatever we're calling ourselves this week Lines: 37 Keywords: external >In article <1123@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >>You mean like quoting the dictionary definition of free will? I've done >>that repeatedly. > > I must have missed this. [PAUL TOREK] Obviously. I'd used a number of dictionary definitions, including American Heritage. >>I reiterate in case >>you missed it the first time: "the belief that man's choices ultimately >>are or can be voluntary AND NOT DETERMINED BY EXTERNAL CAUSES" is the >>operative definition (or one of them offering a similar perspective). > Which dictionary was that? Why do you ask? You "sound" almost as if you don't believe your "ears", or that you doubt my word. As I said above, American Heritage, which tends to be a more objective dictionary than Webster's, for example. (Compare the two dictionaries' definitions for "scientism".) > Anyway, a tricky word here is "external". I > suggest you look that one up, keeping in mind that the question "external > to what" would seem to have the answer "man" or "volition (based on the definition quoted. Not at all, Paul. My first guess is "outside of the boundaries of". In looking it up, I find that summarizes most of the definitions, but I include another here for your own comments: "4. Existing independently of the mind; objective; phenomenal." In any case, external causes would refer to the actions of the physical world as having an effect on the mind or brain, which is what I've been contending all along---the outside world, the physical world itself, is what has effects on the rational evaluative analysis process, thus not making it free. -- Like a turban (HEY!), worn for the very first time... Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr