Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site osu-eddie.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!apr!osu-eddie!allen From: allen@osu-eddie.UUCP (John Allen) Newsgroups: net.nlang,net.women Subject: Re: Gender-Neutral indefinites (all cases) Message-ID: <418@osu-eddie.UUCP> Date: Fri, 28-Jun-85 17:36:47 EDT Article-I.D.: osu-eddi.418 Posted: Fri Jun 28 17:36:47 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Jun-85 03:47:36 EDT References: <697@sphinx.UCHICAGO.UUCP> <706@sphinx.UCHICAGO.UUCP> <303@wuphys.UUCP> Organization: Ohio State Univ., CIS Dept., Cols, Oh. Lines: 63 Xref: watmath net.nlang:3291 net.women:6147 > > >I'm afraid this means we have to get into the nitty-gritty of specific > >kinds of constructions. The simplest question is whether the word comes > >with a full range of cases (yes, there is a case system in English, > >for pronouns only); and the answer is yes for THEY, ONE, and YOU (which > >should also come into the discussion). Of course it can also be yes > >for a coinage, but this is something the coiner has to remember to do. > >So we can ask Bryan to fill in the blanks: > > Sure. Why not? > Remember my criteria, however: a word that is > similar enough to the male and female forms to be > easily substituted. > > If the person who forgot these shoes is still here, ZHE should > > come claim them. > > By the way, alternative suggestions to "zhe" > are welcome. The word itself is not a sacred cow. > > > If you see a barefoot person, please tell _____ them to come > > to the desk. (ZHEM ? ZHER ? ZHIM ?) > > him vs. her Hmmm... HIR? sounds too much like HER. > HEM? Better. HERM? Maybe. Actually, > I like Hem better for reasons to be > explained shortly. > > > In this terrain, a climber really needs _____ > > shoes. (ZHER ? ZHIS ? ZHEIR ?) > > his vs. her HES. Better yet, HEZ. (There's another > "Z" for you !) > > > I hope the person who has found the blue suede 9-1/2's will bring > > them up here, as they're mine; and I will give > > back ____. (ZHERS ? ZHEIRS ? ZHIS ? ZHIMS ?) > > his vs. hers HEZ again. (His can be used in both > cases. Why not HEZ?) > > > I think a true acrobat would give up vodka and in general take > > better care of _____. (ZHEMSELF ?) > > himself vs. herself HEMSELF. HERMSELF does not roll > trippingly off the tongue. That's > why I don't like HERM (above). > > > Bryan S. Coughlan ( Yes, that's right. My first > ihnp4!wuphys!bsc two initials are B.S. ! ) There is one major flaw with some of these suggestions if you want them to be distinct from the already existing pronouns. In some American dialects the [I] (as in `pin') and the [E] (as in `pen') have fallen together before nasals so that both of these words would be pronounced [pIn]. This also means that the forms `hem' and `hemself' would be homophonous with `him' and `himself' respectively in these dialects. John Allen Ohio State University (UUCP: cbosgd!osu-eddie!allen) (CSNet: allen@ohio-state)