Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sfmag.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!samet
From: samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Capital Punishment
Message-ID: <619@sfmag.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 30-Jun-85 00:35:42 EDT
Article-I.D.: sfmag.619
Posted: Sun Jun 30 00:35:42 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 3-Jul-85 06:49:48 EDT
Organization: AT&T Information Systems, Summit, NJ
Lines: 65

>> The sin of male homosexuality is punishable by death  by skila (stoning). 
> Samet tells us what the Torah view of homosexuality.  The question is:
> Is it Samet's view that homosexuals should be treated nowadays according
> to the Torah?  [Yosi Hoshen]

1)  Samet's  view  is  that  everything  should  always  be  done
according to the Torah.

2) According to the Torah, capital crimes can only be tried  when
the  Bais Hamikdosh (Temple) is standing and the Beis Din Hagadol
(Supreme Rabbinical Court) is residing there (in which  case they
can   also   be   tried  elsewhere.)   Fourty  years  before  the
destruction  of the  second  Bais  Hamikdosh  the  Sanhedrin  was
exiled  and  capital trials ceased. (reference:Maimonides, Mishna
Torah, Sefer Shoftim, Hilchos Sanhedrin, Perek 14, Halacha 11-13)

3) When the Temple is rebuilt and the Sanhedrin is  reconstituted
(after  the  coming  of  Moshiach)  capital  punishment  will  be
reinstituted.

> If his answer is yes then I would have to agree with Rich on the issue.
                        [Yosi Hoshen]

People have justifiably complained about redundant rhetoric  over
this issue. Out of respect for Yosi, I will answer briefly, while
trying to refrain from saying anything that is not new.

Yes, the Torah does prescribe capital punishment for things  like
sexual  sins  and  shabbos  violation.  In  fact,  it contains an
account in which a shabbos violater was executed in Moshe's time.
This  fact may  surprise those Jews who imagine that the Torah is
very much in tune with modern American values.

Now, along comes someone and says "The Torah considers xyz to  be
a  capital  crime."   This information may be quite disturbing to
such people. They can react in different ways. Here are a few:

1) verify that the Torah is not what they  thought  it  was,  and
adjust to that reality, no matter how uncomfortable it may be

2) ignore what is openly stated in the Torah, and cling to wishful
preconceptions

3) attack the person who makes disturbing revelations  about  the
Torah  rather than deal with the uncomfortable dissonance between
the Torah and modern values

After stating the fact the Torah prescribes the death penalty for
homosexuality,   I've   been   dismissed   as   a  crackpot  (for
misrepresenting the Torah) and compared to a Nazi  for  believing
in it.

The crackpot charge is escapist, since it can be easily  verified
that there is no misrepresentation.

The Nazi charge shifts attention to me rather than to the  Torah,
which  is  the  source  of my view. I would reverse the charge as
follows:

According to your reasoning,  you  should  compare  Judaism  with
Nazism.   Why do you avoid  that conclusion? I think it's because
you recognize that such a comparison is ludicrous.  If  so,  what
does that say about your reasoning?

                                Yitzchok Samet