Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sdcrdcf.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!oliveb!hplabs!sdcrdcf!barryg From: barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) Newsgroups: net.games.frp Subject: NO Saving Throw Message-ID: <2145@sdcrdcf.UUCP> Date: Fri, 12-Jul-85 10:16:37 EDT Article-I.D.: sdcrdcf.2145 Posted: Fri Jul 12 10:16:37 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 04:43:08 EDT References: <438@busch.UUCP> <1453@shark.UUCP> Reply-To: barryg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Lee Gold) Organization: System Development Corp. R+D, Santa Monica Lines: 37 Summary: I'd like to go on record as intensely disliking No Saving Throw spells. This particularly applies to No Saving Throw and You Die spells. I view the saving throw as the victim's chance of pulling off a minor protective magic (something like crossing one's fingers and saying "Avert!). Anyone can do it; mages have a MUCH better chance of doing it right. Dwarves are good at it but lousy at normal offensive magic. But whatever you think a saving throw is, it feels *wrong* for someone to be able to significantly affect a victim on a 100% chance basis. No roll to hit, no chance of dodging/parrying: just DOOM! The problem is that D&D saving throws get too easy as you go up levels. In LANDS OF ADVENTURE, the saving throw is based on your PRUDENCE or CONSTITUTION (your choice of which you want to use; a group can rely on one person's PRU) affected by the Intensity of the Spell AND by the number of Energy Points the victim uses to "fight off" the spell. You could borrow a trick from this and give people a chance of fighting off No Sving Throw D&D spells: say, 10% per HP given up. As for Alignment Changing: I used to let tempter types (like succubi, vampires) change alignment gradually (Good to Neutral took three melee rounds, Neutral to Evil another three melee rounds; you could delay the change each time you saved). Changing the person back could be done by Neutralize Curse. I think I know what the GM was getting at, though. In his case, I might have instead offered the character a choice: you can either go to Evil and be ONE LEVEL HIGHER or stay the level and alignment you are. I've had a lot of fun with offering people tempting choices. Much more than I'd get from NO Saving Throw spells or You Can't Take It Off magic items. Instead I offer Rings of +3 Protection to anyone who betrayed a friend to death; a cloak embroidered with red drops that makes you a Vampire of Your Level +4 -- which randomly strikes someone (party or enemy) the first time on a run it sees blood, etc. SAnd then watch the players squirm in agony. --Lee Gold