Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihnet.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!ihnp4!ihnet!eklhad From: eklhad@ihnet.UUCP (K. A. Dahlke) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Handgun control (again) Message-ID: <253@ihnet.UUCP> Date: Sun, 14-Jul-85 06:32:13 EDT Article-I.D.: ihnet.253 Posted: Sun Jul 14 06:32:13 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 04:18:07 EDT References: <484@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <> <493@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 72 > a) the use of guns (specifically handguns) in crime is a tiny percentage > (~0.01%) of all handgun use in the US. The current black market is > many times the volume needed to support criminal use. > b) it is impossible to interdict the flow of small arms at any border > across which there is any considerable traffic of private automobiles. > c) a short, concealable weapon, quite suitable for holdups and murder, > can be constructed from either rifle or shotgun in a few minutes > with a hacksaw. > d) consider that that there is in fact a model of the proposed prohibition, > nationwide, namely that of submachine guns, since the 1930's. Nevertheless > the current murder rate with them exceeds that of the '20s when they > were legal and the hallmark of gang warfare. > e) All the above aside, it is quite feasible for anyone who can fix a car > to make a respectable autopistol in a common machine shop in a day, > or in the basement in a week, using materials found in any hardware store. > A zip gun, useless for defense but just the thing for murder, can be > made in an hour. [unnecessary childish flame against Mr. Forsythe deleted by the editor]. > > --JoSH Although I agree with all 5 of these arguments, I still want *some* handgun control. I believe many of you are missing the point. One must first decide which problem is being addressed. Stated rather generally, I believe handgun legislation is "aimed" at reducing second degree murder, and injuries related to these crimes. What is a second degree murderer like? They are considerably different from first degree murderers, hence the legal distinction. He (forgive the sexism, but they are statistically male anyways) is (was) rarely a major criminal, but he lacks self control. In the heat of the moment, driven by passion, sometimes clouded by alcohol, he hauls off and shoots the person he is arguing with; a person he knows well. Of course, since he has no training, his aim is unreliable, and he sometimes hits a bystander. Other scenarios, closer to my home, involve young gang members, who lose all perspective during a territorialistic fight, and whip out their guns. Still other murders result from robberies and burglaries. I believe these crimes represent a majority of murders in the US. Murder #1 also deserves our attention, but nobody is suggesting that gun control will help here. Yet I believe it will do no harm. If someone is planning to kill you, they can often get something better than a handgun anyways. Combined with the element of surprise, you rarely have a chance. A handgun up your sleeve wouldn't help. But let me return to murder #2. Handgun control assumes a significant number of these potential murderers are (relatively) law abiding citizens, who lack self control, or whatever. Thus, these people are not likely to go far out of their way to break the law (e.g. buy or manufacture illegal weaponry). They can carry knives for their security blankets, and when they wield them in a moment of passion, the victim still has a chance, and bystanders are relatively safe. Furthermore, these people couldn't afford black market handguns even if they were willing to break the law to obtain them. A lot of assumptions, I know, but I believe these are the relevant ones. Opponents of handgun control must refute these assumptions. Viewed in this light, the above arguments are red herrings. Surprisingly, I have seen very few statistics on the nature of second degree murderers, the weapons they use, why they had their weapons, etc. Are these people likely (or economically able) to buy black market guns? I don't know. I do know that something must be done. Aside from the obvious tragic loss of life, the victim is often the family breadwinner, forcing the survivers onto welfare programs. The (now serious) criminal occupies space in a jail, and consumes tax dollars, instead of producing them. The cost to our society is very high. -- Three of the most brilliant concepts are very counterintuitive: evolution, capitalism, and relativity. Despite our intuitions and biases, the evidence supports all three. Karl Dahlke ihnp4!ihnet!eklhad