Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site kontron.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!hplabs!pesnta!pertec!kontron!cramer From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) Newsgroups: net.politics.theory Subject: Re: Explorations of "social-interest": Origins of Human Society Message-ID: <345@kontron.UUCP> Date: Mon, 8-Jul-85 18:29:05 EDT Article-I.D.: kontron.345 Posted: Mon Jul 8 18:29:05 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 13-Jul-85 10:22:37 EDT References: <657@whuxl.UUCP> <2380051@acf4.UUCP> <373@spar.UUCP> <321@kontron.UUCP> <383@spar.UUCP> Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA Lines: 34 > > > > Human beings are individals. They form societies for mutual benefit, > > > > i.e., to facilitate achievement of their individual goals. > > > > > > > > Mike Sykora > > > > > > Can you cite a single instance of a lasting human society (not a club > > > or other special-interest organization) being formed by the rational > > > agreement of otherwise atomic human beings? If not, on what basis are > > > you making this assertion? There is disagreement among anthropologists > > > about how human societies form and develop, but it would appear that man > > > is an *instinctively* social animal. Do you have evidence to the contrary? > > > > > > Baba > > > > Plymouth Compact. The original government of Rhode Island. > > > > Those come right off the top of my head. > > > > Clayton Cramer > > You should dig deeper, then. The parties to the cited agreements were > already socialized in English culture, with established and agreed-upon > notions of individual and familial obligation, commerce, and common law. > > Baba Already socialized, yes, but not legally compelled to continue in those patterns. In fact, they did not follow in those patterns. Both examples are notable for the manner in which the governments they formed were *different* from English society: Plymouth Colony, in that they did not create a nobility; Rhode Island, in that they were tolerant of dissenting religious opinions. In fact, these societies were formed from atomic individuals.