Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihdev.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxn!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv
From: rjv@ihdev.UUCP (ron vaughn)
Newsgroups: net.music
Subject: Re: Phil Collins sucks
Message-ID: <276@ihdev.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 16-Jul-85 00:17:46 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihdev.276
Posted: Tue Jul 16 00:17:46 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 07:49:55 EDT
References: <4682@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Reply-To: rjv@ihdev.UUCP (55224-R. J. Vaughn)
Distribution: net.music
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 86
Summary: 

In article <4682@mit-eddie.UUCP> nessus@mit-eddie.UUCP (Doug Alan) writes:
>> In my opinion Prince is talentless.  My theory about why he never
>> showed up at the USA for Africa sessions is because he would have
>> melted like the Wicked Witch, in front of all that real talent.
>
>In front of all that talent like Michael Jackson and Lionel Richie?
>Right!
>			 Doug Alan

ray charles, perhaps??  i see! if you are popular, then (by some strange
definition) you can't be talented.  i realize i'm not supposed to
be so "personal" and "attack," but the hypocrisy being displayed by
doug all the time borders on (ok, i'll be honest, it IS) ridiculous.

doug, is there one area (muscially) where you can top ray charles?  (god, i
can feel the flames, and i feel stupid for asking this type of
question, but i'm driving at a point here, hang on!)  can you
out play him?  out perform him? please an audience more?  be more creative?
(and do it with your eyes shut?? :-)

doug, have you no appreciation for what an artist does?  i spent 12 years
behind a saxophone (and a few behind a piano & flute).  after 12 years
of playing all that high school stuff & jazz band & major marching college
band & just goofing around, i learned a few things.  i was a good sax
player, but far from great.  FAR!  even the "worst" of professional recording
sax players (honest to god make their living off playing) could out-play 
me.  so i can look at john klemmer and say "gheeez.  what a schmoe.  grover
washington jr. would have to teach him to hold the horn before giving him
his first lesson," but i don't.  because i know what it takes to play
a sax.  just because i like g.w.jr over klemmer doesn't mean klemmer
sucks sax.  he is still a *very* talented musician.  try picking up
a sax and playing along with one of his albums.  i used to.

all of those people at USA_for_Africa ARE talented.  i don't listen
to half of them, but i realize they are talented.  they wouldn't be
there if they weren't.  no, madonna is not my idol.  but she can kinda' sorta'
sing (in her own way) and she makes what many consider sexy videos,
and if you ever get out in the real world doug and are at a hoppin'
dance bar, you'll realize she doesn't make music to sit and contemplate,
she makes music to *M*O*V*E* to.  there is some talent there.  if being
a top-40 queen were as easy as you make it, how come those 103,231 other 
madonna look-a-likes didn't make it?  you don't just stand up and
say "i wanna' be a video queen."

lighten up, doug.  don't be some damn critical of top-40.  it's not
the best, but it has its purpose.  ever listen to a song just because
it has cute lyrics and makes you think of your girlfriend -- brings a big
smile to your face?  ever like a song because you can't HELP but dance to it?
could YOU write or produce or sing on or play on or edit or do just about
anything on a top-40 album??  i doubt it.  and even if maybe you could
you'd have to beat out the 543,201 others trying for the same spot.  don't 
even consider a hot jazz album or other more "talented" areas.  now
call up lionel richie and apologize right now.

	ron vaughn	...!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv

ps:  DOUG!!!  DO NOT (DO NOT DO NOT) take this letter and chop it up and
reply to every other sentence.  i will mail you every core at bell labs
i can find if you do.  when you do that, you don't reply to thoughts and
ideas and "the big picture," hell no, you miss all of that.  you reply
to specific sentences, play little word games (..."i didn't say "all",
i said "most"...) and crap like that.  this is when your hypocrisy is
at its absolute worst.  for example....

***************************************************************************

doug spouting off to me about bach.vs.bush:

>                                        (do I have to say "in my
>opinion" here -- though you definitely seem to have the opinion that
>your opinion is fact)

i happened to say:

>>> SHE WILL NEVER BE AS IMPORTANT OR GOOD OR TALENTED AS BACH.  NEVER.

so doug instantly replies with these neat "facts":

>Bullshit.  She already is as good -- she's better!  But you're correct
>that she may never be as important in a historical sense, because she
>wasn't born at the right time for that.  
***************************************************************************

i rest my case.  i'm sick and tired of this whole schmere (and i'm
sure you netters are too).  i just wish people could understand
what "fandom" is and how it can cloud your judgement.