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From: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Discrimination and AA and Racism
Message-ID: <592@cybvax0.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 2-Jul-85 11:13:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: cybvax0.592
Posted: Tue Jul  2 11:13:55 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 5-Jul-85 05:16:03 EDT
References: <292@looking.UUCP> <1340248@acf4.UUCP>
Reply-To: mrh@cybvax0.UUCP (Mike Huybensz)
Organization: Cybermation, Inc., Cambridge, MA
Lines: 30
Summary: 

> (Cramer)
> Tell me, Mr. Carnes, if you don't believe in the non-coercion principle,
> what is the basis for your objection to rape? murder? robbery?  If the
> objection is based on law, then a government that repeals those laws
> has taken away your objections.
> 
> (Richard Carnes)
> Mr. Cramer now feigns total ignorance of all non-libertarian moral
> philosophy.  Flame away -- why don't you tell them I support rape and
> murder -- I won't respond, since we seem to mean two completely
> different things by "intelligent discussion."
> 
> (Michael M. Sykora)
> Richard, I believe it may have been Clayton's intention to demonstrate that
> the principles you espouse are inconsistent.  In order to do this, it is
> necessary for him to ask for an explicit statement of your moral
> philosophy, i.e., perhaps his question was indeed a question and not
> merely a criticism.  I think that this discussion could get interesting.

Clayton's "demonstration" is based on a false dichotomy between non-coercion
as the most fundamental value and "anything goes".  And his suggestion that
Carnes' ideas of morality are based merely on law is another red herring.
Both sentences are insulting attempts to put words into Rich's mouth.

The simple answer that Clayton probably knows, is that most moral systems
include non-coercion as a value, but simply don't assign it the primacy
that libertarians want it to have.
-- 

Mike Huybensz		...decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!cybvax0!mrh