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From: cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Handgun control (again)
Message-ID: <288@kontron.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 27-Jun-85 12:53:45 EDT
Article-I.D.: kontron.288
Posted: Thu Jun 27 12:53:45 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Jun-85 03:33:22 EDT
References: <484@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <> <493@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <> <503@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP>
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA
Lines: 52

> In article <> steiny@idsvax.UUCP (Don Steiny) writes:
> >
> >You somehow think that the number of handgun deaths is an argument
> >against handguns, but you have never posted any material that
> >addresses the issues he raises.   For instance, what are 
> >people who live in rural areas without police protection
> >supposed to do to defend themselves?
> 
> False, Don.  I *have* posted articles about this.  A handgun is not
> an adequate means of defense.  People who live in rural areas would be
> better advised to buy rifles and shotguns for self-protection, if they
> want a gun.
> 
Ever tried to carry a rifle or shotgun while working in the garden?
Handguns are appropriate when you need your hands free.

> >THE POLICE advise people
> >around here to get guns and learn how to use them.  
> 
> That may be true, Don.  But the police chiefs I am acquainted with
> do NOT recommend handguns.  They recommend shotguns.  See the book by
> the police chief of San Jose.
> 
And there isn't a sheriff in the whole state of California who supported
this last gun control measure; most of the police chiefs in California
also opposed it.  Police chief McNamara is quite unique.

> >Don't forget that Kates has said that violent crime INCREASES
> >in areas with strick gun control and he cites the statistics to
> >back himself up.
> 
> Wrong again, Don.  Look at Washington, D. C., where both the murder
> rate and crime rate went down by 25% after a strict gun control law
> was enacted there.  Look at Massachusetts, where the homicide rate
> decreased by 20% after a gun control law enacted there.  Look at
> Morton Grove, where there have been NO murders and NO suicides since
> the passage of its famous handgun ban (in the previous six years,
> there were four suicides and three homicides).
> 
What was happening to crime rates in the country as a whole during that
same time?  Crime rates throughout America are at the lowest rates since
1975; the examples you cited above start around the time that all crime
rates in this country declined.  (By the way, there were only a few
handguns turned in Morton's Grove --- it couldn't have made that much
difference.)

> Jeff Shallit
> University of Chicago

I'm not even sure why gun control is an issue --- there is more chance of
making marijuana and heroin disappear than handguns --- and there's no
chance *at all* of making those two go away.