Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site psivax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtung!mtunf!ariel!vax135!petsd!peora!pesnta!hplabs!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen From: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Newsgroups: net.women,net.nlang Subject: Re: the closed class of pronouns Message-ID: <530@psivax.UUCP> Date: Tue, 2-Jul-85 14:49:25 EDT Article-I.D.: psivax.530 Posted: Tue Jul 2 14:49:25 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 7-Jul-85 05:03:15 EDT References: <290@wuphys.UUCP> <678@sphinx.UCHICAGO.UUCP> <300@wuphys.UUCP> <515@psivax.UUCP> <737@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> Reply-To: friesen@psivax.UUCP (Stanley Friesen) Organization: Pacesetter Systems Inc., Sylmar, CA Lines: 30 Xref: watmath net.women:6276 net.nlang:3336 Summary: In article <737@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP> mmar@sphinx.UChicago.UUCP (Mitchell Marks) writes: > >Wait wait! Both sides: I have a lot of trouble with "The system was set up" >(let alone adding "so that"), if you mean it at all like an ordinary passive, >i.e., "[unspecified agent] set up the system (so that...)". It grew, it >evolved, nobody set it up. Of course, assumptions and attitudes in the >speech community have a major bearing on how a language changes. Actually, this is more or less what I was trying to say, even if I did not say it very clearly. I felt the original posting did sound like a "conspiracy" theory, and I was trying to point out that the pattern seen today is largely a result of undirected developemnent in the English language. > >SF does have a good point here, but I wonder if he's taking it too far. >It doesn't amount to an argument for maintaining the status quo, e.g. >on the ground that it originated from an innocent grammatical quirk. >Regardless of origins, today English almost entirely lacks grammatical >gender for nouns, which is to say that the gender for an anaphoric pronoun >will be determined by natural gender. > Actually, I was not trying to argue for maintain the status-quo, I was only trying to eliminate what I considered to be a bogus argument, based on a misconception about haw language developes. -- Sarima (Stanley Friesen) {trwrb|allegra|cbosgd|hplabs|ihnp4|aero!uscvax!akgua}!sdcrdcf!psivax!friesen or {ttdica|quad1|bellcore|scgvaxd}!psivax!friesen