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From: elb@mtx5d.UUCP (Ellen Bart)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Nausea ad Nauseum
Message-ID: <695@mtx5d.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 10-Jul-85 11:35:45 EDT
Article-I.D.: mtx5d.695
Posted: Wed Jul 10 11:35:45 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 12-Jul-85 00:38:33 EDT
References: <401@mhuxm.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
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I have been staying out of the discussions for various reasons but
J. Abeles's posting bothered me sufficiently to respond.

I think your attack on Samet was uncalled for.  If you disagree with
his views then it would have been sufficient to say "Net readers -- I
would like you to know that others feel differently than Samet.  Here
is my view .. etc"

You may not agree with Samet's brand of Orthodoxy, but he is always
careful to state that these are his views and he does not force
them on anyone else (UNLIKE MANY OTHER POSTERS WHO WOULD DO WELL
TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE).

I agree with his statement of expectations from net.religion.jewish.
If an Orthodox person wants to state that he/she believes/practices/
accepts something because he/she believes the torah says so,  the
basis for the use of the torah as an authority should not be called
into question.  Is it unreasonable to expect readers of this group to
*understand* the  basis for some Orthodox viewpoints even if they
don't *accept* those viewpoints??

Note that I am NOT saying discussions about particulars of the practice
or varying opinions would be unwelcome. BUT, some axioms are a given
in this newsgroup.  The easiest example is that we understand that we
are talking about a monotheistic religion here.  As Samet said, if this
were net.religion.atheist he couldn't expect to have that statement
as a given. 

One of the things that is most distressing/depressing to me as a Jew
is that there is so much contempt for others who draw the lines in
a different place than they do.  And make no mistake, we ALL draw
lines somewhere.  Is it so hard to understand that others are just
drawing different lines?  Is it surprising that people will try to
spread their views to others?  Is Samet passing legislation to make
you believe what he believes?  Isn't he just expounding/explaining
his view, trying to find others who agree, trying to convince others
he might be right?

The thing I feel most about going to Boro Park is not contempt for
others with differing views.  Mostly I feel uncomfortable because of
the stares, the condescending looks, the comments and behavior which
are signs of their contempt for me.  Sometimes I feel I just want
to go over to them and say " Look, we're all Jews, we have different
ways of looking at things but why does there have to be
fear, and hatred."

I think certain posters on the net have a tendency to say "you show
contempt for my viewpoint -- that makes you worthy of my contempt"
Isn't that just a little ridiculous?

ellen bart