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From: dsn@tove.UUCP (Dana S. Nau)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Intelligence
Message-ID: <262@tove.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 4-Jul-85 15:32:46 EDT
Article-I.D.: tove.262
Posted: Thu Jul  4 15:32:46 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Jul-85 05:36:15 EDT
References: <456@ttidcc.UUCP> <457@ttidcc.UUCP> <1586@hao.UUCP>
Reply-To: dsn@tove.UUCP (Dana S. Nau)
Organization: U of Maryland, Laboratory for Parallel Computation, C.P., MD
Lines: 82

In article <523@ttidcc.UUCP> hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) writes:
>
>... business, policy analysis, medicine, accounting, etc.

Whatever.  The list wasn't intended to be exhaustive.

>[Psychology] did require advanced courses in  statistics  and
>experimental  design.  These  were taught with a very practical orientation
>that assured we knew how to correctly apply the techniques whether  or  not
>we  could  prove  them.

Actually, I wish I had had a course like that--it would be pretty useful to
me right now.  But for topics like, say, queueing theory and pattern
recognition, I think a bit more theoretical background is required.

>(The calculus proofs were presented, but we weren't
>required to derive them).

Perhaps I misunderstand you, but that's typically what's done in intro
calculus.

>>I think your question could be asked about nearly all college courses--both
>>required courses and electives.
>
>How could it  apply  to  electives?

Sorry--I interpreted your question to mean "what use is it for people to take
calculus, if it isn't going to be used later on?"

>Anyway,  it's  one  thing  to  require
>introductory courses in a broad range of subjects in the interest of a well
>rounded education.  It's something else entirely  to  require  a  difficult
>course in advanced mathematics for people who will never need it.

First, intro calculus isn't "advanced mathematics"--in fact, some people
have argued that it's not even "real" mathematics!  Typically, it is a
"cookbook" course, in the sense that it concentrates more on teaching
techniques than on teaching the theoretical reasons why those techniques
work.

Second, I don't think it's valid to draw a distinction between calculus and
those other introductory courses.  Intro chemistry and physics, for example,
are just as difficult, and just as likely not to be needed later.  Where I
went to school, calculus was a prerequisite for intro physics.

>>                          The courses teach not only what is taught
>>explicitly, but also ways of looking at the world and ways of thinking.
>
>Does calculus do this better than, say, economics or logic  or  psychology?
>Differently, perhaps, but I think not better.

I certainly agree.

>I intend to take (and pass (-: ) the CDP exam in  December.
>All  without  a  degree  in CS and without having studied calculus. (I have
>been through several certificate programs through UCLA Extension).

I hope the exam goes well.  Obviously you didn't need a computer science
degree. :-)

>>                                ... I get frustrated when I present a proof
>>in a senior-level data structures course and most of the students tell me
>>they don't know how to do proofs using quantifiers.
>
>Forgive my ignorance, but would this ability have  any  practical  use  for
>anyone  other than a mathematician or advanced researcher?

Someone who works at a company in the DC area came to me a few
weeks ago with a programming problem which had come up in her work.  In a
few minutes, I saw that the algorithm she had in mind for the problem
wouldn't work, and showed her why.  I couldn't have done this without my
mathematical abilities (note that I don't necessarily mean calculus).

To be fair, I should point out that although she wasn't what I would call an
"advanced researcher", she WAS doing scientific programming.  Such
mathematical skills would probably be less useful for business programming.
(But at Maryland, someone who wants to do business programming should get a
degree from the Business School, not the Computer Science Department).
-- 
Dana S. Nau,  Computer Science Dept.,  U. of Maryland,  College Park, MD 20742
ARPA:  dsn@maryland				CSNet:  dsn@umcp-cs
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