Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site mtx5d.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!mtuxo!mtunh!mtx5d!elb From: elb@mtx5d.UUCP (Ellen Bart) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Nausea ad Nauseum Message-ID: <695@mtx5d.UUCP> Date: Wed, 10-Jul-85 11:35:45 EDT Article-I.D.: mtx5d.695 Posted: Wed Jul 10 11:35:45 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 12-Jul-85 00:38:33 EDT References: <401@mhuxm.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ Lines: 51 I have been staying out of the discussions for various reasons but J. Abeles's posting bothered me sufficiently to respond. I think your attack on Samet was uncalled for. If you disagree with his views then it would have been sufficient to say "Net readers -- I would like you to know that others feel differently than Samet. Here is my view .. etc" You may not agree with Samet's brand of Orthodoxy, but he is always careful to state that these are his views and he does not force them on anyone else (UNLIKE MANY OTHER POSTERS WHO WOULD DO WELL TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE). I agree with his statement of expectations from net.religion.jewish. If an Orthodox person wants to state that he/she believes/practices/ accepts something because he/she believes the torah says so, the basis for the use of the torah as an authority should not be called into question. Is it unreasonable to expect readers of this group to *understand* the basis for some Orthodox viewpoints even if they don't *accept* those viewpoints?? Note that I am NOT saying discussions about particulars of the practice or varying opinions would be unwelcome. BUT, some axioms are a given in this newsgroup. The easiest example is that we understand that we are talking about a monotheistic religion here. As Samet said, if this were net.religion.atheist he couldn't expect to have that statement as a given. One of the things that is most distressing/depressing to me as a Jew is that there is so much contempt for others who draw the lines in a different place than they do. And make no mistake, we ALL draw lines somewhere. Is it so hard to understand that others are just drawing different lines? Is it surprising that people will try to spread their views to others? Is Samet passing legislation to make you believe what he believes? Isn't he just expounding/explaining his view, trying to find others who agree, trying to convince others he might be right? The thing I feel most about going to Boro Park is not contempt for others with differing views. Mostly I feel uncomfortable because of the stares, the condescending looks, the comments and behavior which are signs of their contempt for me. Sometimes I feel I just want to go over to them and say " Look, we're all Jews, we have different ways of looking at things but why does there have to be fear, and hatred." I think certain posters on the net have a tendency to say "you show contempt for my viewpoint -- that makes you worthy of my contempt" Isn't that just a little ridiculous? ellen bart