Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site scgvaxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!pesnta!pertec!scgvaxd!dan From: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (Dan Boskovich) Newsgroups: net.origins Subject: Re: A new voice. Message-ID: <347@scgvaxd.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Jun-85 22:26:10 EDT Article-I.D.: scgvaxd.347 Posted: Mon Jun 24 22:26:10 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Jun-85 07:27:05 EDT References: <2156@ut-sally.UUCP> Reply-To: dan@scgvaxd.UUCP (PUT YOUR NAME HERE) Organization: Hughes Aircraft Co., El Segundo, CA Lines: 77 Distribution: In article <2156@ut-sally.UUCP> derrick@ut-sally.UUCP (Derrick Hartsock) writes: > >I am interested in ONE piece of evidence that even suggests that Creationism >could have possibly happened. If anybody posts instead something that >knocks evolution and doesn't defend creationism they can be sure of being >Flamed. Now come on, just ONE (1) , that's all I want. Now don't just jump >for the first thing that comes to mind, think awhile. > Any evidence against Evolution is evidence for Creation and vice versa. This point is discussed in depth by the notable evolutionist scholar, Douglas J. Futuyma. "Science On Trial", chapter 11, page 1 "Creation and Evolution, between the two, exhaust the possible explanations for the origin of living things. Organisms either appeared on the earth fully developed or they did not! If they did not, they must have developed from some preexisting species by some process of modification." If you find this difficult to accept, please state the alternative to Creation/Evolution! But since you asked for evidence for Creation, I will just give you Kukuk/Brown's latest evidence which is similar to a past posting of mine. The First Law of Thermodynamics states that the total amount of energy in the universe, or in any isolated part of it, remains constant. This law states that although energy (or its mass equivalent) can change form, it is not now being created or destroyed. Countless experiments have verified this. A corollary of the First Law is that natural processes cannot create energy. Consequently, energy must have been created by some agency or power outside of and independent of the natural universe. If the entire universe is an isolated system, then according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the energy in the universe that is available for useful work has always been decreasing. But as one goes back further in time, the amount of energy available for useful work would eventually exceed the total energy in the universe that, according to the First Law of Thermodynamics, remains constant. This is an impossible condition. It therefore implies that the universe had a beginning. [END Derrick, you are not the first one to ask such a question. What if I were to ask you to give me one piece of evidence that life arose by chance. Would you talk about the Urey/ Miller experiments. Those experiments could just as easily be cited as reasons to believe in special creation. I was flamed for saying that design is evidence of a designer. The replies were filled with the idea that design is a totally subjective description and all existance could just as easily be attributed to chance and natural processes. I did not reply to those arguments, but I believe that now is the time to do so. Sure, design is subjective. But subjectivity is not akin to irrational. I can't believe that a scientist who prides himself in being rational, intelligent, and objective can look at a world that behaves according to certain laws of nature and mathematics, at a race of individuals who can reason, learn, experience a myriad of emotions and argue that all of this can just as reasonably be explained by chance. And, in light of this, you have the gall to ask for a reason to believe in Creation. Please, Derrick, give me one reason to believe in Evolution. Be careful now. Don't give me any subjective answers like commonality of species which can either imply common ancestor or common design. Give me a real solid concrete reason to believe that you and I are accidents and serve no real purpose. Dan