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From: david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter)
Newsgroups: net.followup
Subject: Re: Re: Defending Nassau Hall
Message-ID: <80@daisy.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 4-Mar-85 01:11:10 EST
Article-I.D.: daisy.80
Posted: Mon Mar  4 01:11:10 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 9-Mar-85 05:55:00 EST
References: <2007@inmet.UUCP>
Reply-To: david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter)
Organization: Daisy Systems Corp., Mountain View, Ca
Lines: 44

Mr. Stern tries to change the discussion from whether Princeton tends to tenure
professors who can't teach into a discussion of student/teacher ratios.  I 
maintain my claim that Princeton professors, by and large, cannot teach well.

Mr. Stern suggests that I call the University and ask about the current
fund-raising/marketing campaign and about changes in the EECS department.
I have done better than that: I visited the place a few weeks ago.  Nothing
much has changed since I left, three years ago.  Mr. Stern follows this  
suggestion with a nasty comment.  His comment is out of place and does not
advance this discussion.

Mr. Stern points to vocational schools as great places to learn to "take
apart TV sets".  He claims that Princeton teaches theory and allows the
student to do independent work to learn how things work in the real world.
Unfortunately, independent work is precisely that: independent.  Students
usually work alone or in a team of two.  "Real world" projects tend to
involve many engineers and others.  Princeton does not teach would-be
engineers how to work in "real world" environments.  Moreover, Princeton
professors do not have much "real world" experience.  Finally, there is
a world of difference between an independent project and a commercial
system.  At Princeton, students are not given any indication of this.  There
is little communication between Princeton and industry.

Mr. Stern claims "Nobody says you can't learn 'real engineering' when you are
taught theory."  I disagree.  Princeton students learn little about how to
make programs reliable or maintainable.  Princeton students learn little about
cost estimating or scheduling.  Princeton students learn little about
documentation or system design.  Princeton students learn little about
debugging.  "Independent study" is not an adequate solution.  One might as
well advocate the teaching of theory by giving the student an all-day pass
to the library!  Knowledge doesn't just "soak in."

Finally, Mr. Stern indicates that WPRB (the campus radio station) is not a
for-profit radio station.  In this he is correct and I was mistaken.  I was
merely parroting what the University told me when I was recruited.  It was
dumb of me to expect University marketing hype to be truthful.  I should have
known better.

                           -- David Schachter

[The opinions expressed in this article are soley those of the author and are
not necessarily those of my company, its employees, or subsidiaries.]
{It's quite easy, Mrs. Smythe-Worthington.  You just put the blinking dot on
the area of the world you want to destroy and press the button.}