Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site sfmag.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!mhuxn!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!samet From: samet@sfmag.UUCP (A.I.Samet) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Coercion or Democracy? Message-ID: <515@sfmag.UUCP> Date: Tue, 5-Mar-85 08:56:04 EST Article-I.D.: sfmag.515 Posted: Tue Mar 5 08:56:04 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 6-Mar-85 05:57:23 EST References: <146@pyuxww.UUCP> <979@ihuxn.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Summit, NJ Lines: 38 > I would appreciate your public comments. I am especially interested > in the views of the orthodox netters. An oft-cited, legitimate case of coercion in Israel would be throwing rocks at cars on Shabbos. This is an irresponsible, foolish, and forbidden act from the Torah viewpoint. Fortunately, such conduct is extremely atypical of Orthodoxy. The Talmud classifies a rock thrower as one attempting manslaughter. Despite propaganda stereotyping, rock throwing is far more infrequent than murder in Israel, and it is fiction to characterize orthodoxy as a rock throwers, just as it would be fiction to characterize Israelis as murderers. Attempting to pass a law in the Knesset defining who is a Jew, or similar religious matters, is a far cry from the above. Such a law would be unconstitutional in America but it's not in Israel. The State proclaims itself to be Jewish and thereby legitimizes things like the "law of return", which could be easily attacked as racist in an American context. It is hysteria mongering to cry "coercion" whenever orthodoxy casts a vote for a religious measures. The law empowering a draft limits personal freedom, but few people will seriously argue coercian to be an issue in that case. All laws can be labeled coercive, but such labeling distracts attention and frustrates intelligent discuss of issues. Similarly, the rabbinate in Israel is duly empowered by law to rule halachically on issues such as marriage, divorce, and conversion, and to advise individuals according to those rulings. That is the law, just like taxes. You may not like it, but it's sidestepping the issue to chant the buzzword "coercion" every time the rabbinate makes a halachic decision which upsets you. If you don't like the laws, or the democratic process in Israel, I understand you. But avoid applying a double standard. Don't rant incessantly about orthodox coercian unless you are talking about "rocks". Yitzchok Samet