Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mnetor.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcs!mnetor!sophie From: sophie@mnetor.UUCP Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: The Jeff Sargent debate Message-ID: <288@mnetor.UUCP> Date: Sat, 9-Mar-85 16:58:24 EST Article-I.D.: mnetor.288 Posted: Sat Mar 9 16:58:24 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 11-Mar-85 10:41:56 EST Organization: Computer X (CANADA) Ltd., Toronto, Ontario, Canada Lines: 47 I really don't understand what all this fuss is about. I disagree with most of Jeff's opinions on things, but to be honest, I have to admit that his way of thinking about things is not THAT foreign to me and his opinions might be unorthodox, but I certainly don't find them as offensive as other people's (e.g the arndt creep) whose contributions are defended under the guise of "freedom of speech". I am not christian, and therefore I cannot really relate to any of the Jesus-Christ-stuff but some of Jeff's opinions are interesting and worthy of discussion, e.g the idea of couples living together without having sex, much more interesting than half of net.singles stuff which I consider to be locker-room drivel. To be perfectly honest, I am much more shocked by the violence of people's reaction to Jeff's posting than by the postings themselves. I find that violence and the idea of kicking Jeff off VERY interesting, especially coming from people who are usually so quick to defend freedom of speech!!! I think it says more about the people who are making those suggestions than it says about Jeff. I think that those people could do with a little introspection to find out what it is that disturbs them so much about what Jeff says and why it disturbs them so much. That could be very interesting. I personally know why I am bothered by some of what Jeff says, because I have grown up in a catholic environment and I can't help but respond emotionally to it, and I know that not too deep down there is some truth and good to what he says, and that in the action of rejecting a religious system because of some unbearable negative effects I have also rejected with it some of the positive sides. In my rejection, I am trying not to embrace another orthodoxy, but I can't help doing so because it is very hard not to belong to ANY group, so whether I want it or not, I am an orthodox atheist-feminist, and whenever I steer off the right track, will be put back in place by my fellow feminists-atheists. Anyway, I didn't mean to go off on such a tangent about myself because this was not the topic of discussion. But, I do think that some similar honest introspection about their "dark sides" might do all orthodox anti-jeffs some good. (Of course some introspection about my motives behind my anti-arndt fervor might do ME some good, so I am subjecting myself as well as others to this lecture <-:). The conclusion of this, if it is not clear already from what I have said, is that I don't see any reason why Jeff should stay out of net.singles, and rather I think other people who disagree with him should make a little effort to see through his Christian dogma and recognise that he does have SOME valid opinions (no matter how he arrived at them) and that even if one doesn't find any of his opinions valid, they are interesting in that they are different opinions (and believe me, not too uncommon at all!!!!). Sophie Quigley {allegra|decvax|ihnp4|linus|watmath}!utzoo!utcs!mnetor!sophie