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From: rjb@akgua.UUCP (R.J. Brown [Bob])
Newsgroups: net.religion.christian
Subject: Church Discipline and Gay Christians
Message-ID: <1292@akgua.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 4-Mar-85 16:55:25 EST
Article-I.D.: akgua.1292
Posted: Mon Mar  4 16:55:25 1985
Date-Received: Thu, 7-Mar-85 03:55:07 EST
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Re: Judgement Part II - Church Discipline and Gay Christians
    

Whether one is or is not truly a Christian is known only absolutely
by the Absolute Himself.

However, those people who claim to be Christians and flout the obvious
moral imperatives provided for us in Scripture are to be educated
(gently) in their error first.  The plan is shown to us very clearly
in the Word that if they cannot be persuaded, by one brother or sister
then two or three should attempt to persuade him or her.  Then you take
it to the church at large.  The Scriptures teach us that this discipline
belongs in the church for our betterment and that there is such a thing
as Spiritual Authority.  Notice the assumption implicit to my remarks
is that the believer belongs to a local congregation or assembly.

Again the scriptures teach us "Forsake not the assembling of yourselves
together..".  There is no such thing (he says dogmatically) as a Lone
Ranger Christian (by choice) who is not headed for a hard fall or at 
the very least severely retarded spiritual growth.  I mean...how can I
find out how much I am growing in love if I don't have your abrasive
personality to get Grace for several times per week (Sunday twice and
perhaps Wedsnesday)?? :-) 

Everything I've said so far is perhaps a little foreign to us 20 th
century Western types.  Perhaps a typical reaction from your basic
mainline Protestant male upon receiving a visit from an Elder or Pastor
who, ever so gently, would dare bring a corrective word would be..
"You self-righteous bastard ! Who died and appointed you God !?"

Or, if the individual were a woman( who tend to be more polite)
or a polite man, he or she might sit in stunned silence during
the correction and then after the event just split with that
local church.

Basically church discipline is non-existent because we think the
unBiblical thought that we are ONLY accountable to God when it
is abundantly clear we have accountability to our brothers and
sisters as well.  

But I digress,...Gay lifestyles are clearly sinful for Christians.
The New Testament Scripture references (especially Romans 1) have 
been cited repeatedly.  Even if homosexuality were not prohibited 
in and of itself, we could make an
argument against it on the basis of sex outside of marriage is either
fornication or adultery.  Since marriage is never spoken of in the
Scriptures in the context of man/man or woman/woman.......

How this ties in with Church Discipline is that when Gays are corrected
they react with arguments about bigotry and narrowness.  The corner-
stone of their argumentation is that gayness is genetically determined.

I would concede without argument that this could be the case that there
are predispositions in some make-ups toward gayness, alcoholism, etc.
The Gay theological error in my opinion is "God made me this way".  We
are born into a fallen world which produces these kinds of 
aberrations (sp?) but that does not relieve us from our responsibility
as Christians.  I have heard the testimony of many ex-gay people who 
have been delivered from homosexuality to the point that I suspect 
that it is a learned behavior perhaps in some cases abetted by 
natural predisposition.

Loving someone in the Christian sense does not mean eternal silence
in the face of a brother or sister Christian continuing to lead
a clearly sinful lifestyle of whatever description.

In line with my earlier article, the degree to which we judge unbelievers
who happen to be gay or living in any other sinful lifestyles is 
somewhat problematic since theologically these folks have more serious
problems than their behavior.

For a lot of Christians the operational understanding of Man is that
he sins because he is a sinner,...not the other way around.


Bob Brown {...ihnp4!akgua!rjb}

P.S. I KNOW MY POSITION LABELS ME AS A BIGOT AMONGST A BUNCH OF PEOPLE.
     SAVE YOUR FLAMES ON THAT PARTICULAR POINT.