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From: karl@osu-eddie.UUCP (Karl Kleinpaste)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Gun Control...again
Message-ID: <146@osu-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 3-Mar-85 16:50:41 EST
Article-I.D.: osu-eddi.146
Posted: Sun Mar  3 16:50:41 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 5-Mar-85 02:57:45 EST
References: <349@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP>
Organization: You really don't want to know
Lines: 64

----------
> davidl@tekig5.UUCP (David Levadie) writes:
> >...  Why should I submit to the SLIGHTEST inconvenience
> >because some two-bit jerk has a macho complex about guns and therefore
> >abuses them? WHY???  WHY??? Nobody on this braindamaged net will even
> >DISCUSS that question, even though SEVERAL people have asked it.  It
> >must be just too mentally taxing to contemplate - it's easier to just
> >go about blathering statistics, and arguing fruitlessly about whether
> >or not "guns cause crime", etc., etc, etc...
> 
> I can think of at least two reasons why.
> 
> First, a considerable number of handguns later used in crimes have been
> stolen from otherwise "responsible" owners.  In fact, Professor Mark
> Moore of Harvard University has estimated that as many as 225,000
> handguns are stolen *each year*.  A 1979 study by the Bureau of
> Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms found that 50% of criminally used
> firearms were stolen.  In fact, the odds that a handgun will be used
> to deter an intruder are *lower* than the odds that the handgun will
> be stolen.
----------
This will no doubt gain me the new enmity of several people on this network,
but here's my response to the claim that lots (admittedly, LOTS) of firearms
are stolen and later used in (other) criminal activities:  I don't care.

I mean that sincerely.  The legislation which tries to address this question
has never, ever once addressed the problem of the thief or the abuser of the
firearm.  They have only infringed  on the ability of responsible gun owners
to  possess them.  You may argue that, if they can be stolen so easily,  the
owners are not  responsible;  you  might even  have  a  point there.  But it
doesn't  matter; *I* am responsible about them.  I'll wager that if  I  give
you 15 minutes in my home, you  can't even  find my firearms.  (I understand
that  the average nighttime burglary lasts less than 15 minutes.)  My  point
here is that  *I*  will  not  be  infringed  upon  if  what  *I* am doing is
perfectly safe and OK.  Penalizing me for the lawlessness and  dangerousness
of others is nonsense.

----------
> The second reason should be even more obvious.  Your *individual* rights
> extend only to where they begin to infringe on others.  If society
> determines that handguns are a societal menace, then your individual
> right to own one must be subjugated for the general good.  Note that
> I am not necessarily concluding that handguns must be confiscated;
> but many dangerous materials and devices are regulated, and handguns
> should be among them.
----------
Yes, it's obvious that my personal rights end where the rights of others are
infringed.   But my personal rights with respect to my firearms  don't  even
*affect* others, much less infringe  on  their rights, for the simple reason
that my firearms have nothing to do with anyone but my own family.  Further,
society (in the form of voters at  polls in the US) has never agreed to have
firearms  confiscated.  Hence, it must not consider them to be  a  "societal
menace."

You  say  that  you  don't  "necessarily" conclude  that  handguns  must  be
confiscated,  but evidently that leaves the option open in the future.   For
that reason, and  having  seen  the  same attitude  in  many  others, I will
continue  to  fight any and all legislation which puts the force of  law  in
opposition to my personal ownership of firearms in any way.  Only when I see
what I do injuring another will I begin to consider that such regulation  is
needed.
-- 
Karl Kleinpaste @ Bell Labs, Columbus    614/860-5107  +==-> cbrma!kk
                @ Ohio State University  614/422-0915  osu-eddie!karl