Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Professor Wagstaff) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Response to Laura - what is a religion? (off the topic) Message-ID: <641@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Fri, 8-Mar-85 09:33:51 EST Article-I.D.: pyuxd.641 Posted: Fri Mar 8 09:33:51 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Mar-85 04:40:39 EST References: <589@pyuxd.UUCP> <5135@utzoo.UUCP>, <617@pyuxd.UUCP> <5176@utzoo.UUCP> Organization: Huxley College Lines: 63 > Rich, > your personal definition of ``religion'' implies a worship of a deity, > and your personal definition of ``worship'' implies the existence > of a deity -- or deities, I suppose. [LAURA CREIGHTON] It would be "my personal definition" if I took it from "my personal dictionary". Sorry, but I haven't published "The English Language According to Rich Rosen" yet. (Hell, I haven't even finished writing... uh, I mean TRANSLATING!!! (whew!) the Book of Ubizmo!!!) I would think that the dictionaries I utilized do not contain "personal" definitions. > Unfortunately, you are in Humpty Dumpty mode again. Everybody else > (yes, I am sure you could drag up people who agree with you, that > wasn't meant to be taken literally) just doesn't use words that way. I could (and with more substantiation, given the dictionaries) say the same thing back to you, Laura. > This definition of religon is true for Judaism, Christianity and Islam -- > though I know Gnostics who consider themselves Christian and who don't > ``worship God'' (according to them, Jesus was *not* God, and worshipping the > Demiurge [sp?] is a mistake) (as opposed to the Yezidees who have a similar > world view and who are proclaimed Satanists) and I am not sure how to > characterise Sufism. You seem to have left out Hinduism (though some Hindus > do ``worship'' as you understand the term) Buddhism, Taoism, and a great many > ``primative religions'' found in Malasia, Africa, and the Americas. > The european pagan tradition (assuming that you believe that there > was one, and that it is connected to current paganism, the point > being hotly debated in anthropological circles today) would be very > divided into worshippers and non-worshippers by your standard -- all > depending on what and how one takes to be symbols. > > That is a lot of people who consider themsleves ``religious'' and who > have designed ceremonies, and build statues, frescos and temples > and in general gathered together to express a common belief and > practice which they considered religious whom you are not recognising. There are also a lot of people who consider themselves "scientists", who hardly fit any reasonable definition of the term. Must we adhere to their self-labelling just because THEY say so? If the definition of religion implies worship of a deity (as I think I've shown that it does imply), then the philosophies/belief systems you mention simply do not fall into the category of "religion", and another word would have to be used to describe them. > Why must we all adopt your definitions? It seems that you are only > willing to discuss what are called ``Judeao-Christian religions'' > (the authority centred, God creator ones) and, at that, I can't > remember you discussing Islam ever, or Judaism much. If what you > want to discuss is Christianity, then, you are in the wrong newsgroup, > even if ``religion'' is synonymous with ``christianity'' to you. Gee, Laura, are you now back to telling me TO post to n.r.c? I'm confused. Religion, by definition, implies worship of a deity. Other belief systems or philosophies that do not engage in such worship are thus not religions. This does not make them "bad" (certainly not in my eyes), rather it simply means that another word should be used to describe them. Again, these are not MY definitions: there are commonly accepted definitions. The fact that a movement runs around calling itself a religion (or a science) does not make it so. Why such a movement would WANT to get lumped in with belief systems it is fundamentally different from in that regard is beyond me. -- "It's a lot like life..." Rich Rosen ihnp4!pyuxd!rlr