Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site mhuxr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mfs From: mfs@mhuxr.UUCP (SIMON) Newsgroups: net.music,net.music.classical Subject: Re: Progress, the Arts, Razor Blades and Bull Message-ID: <267@mhuxr.UUCP> Date: Sat, 9-Mar-85 18:32:12 EST Article-I.D.: mhuxr.267 Posted: Sat Mar 9 18:32:12 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Mar-85 07:38:48 EST References: <8347@brl-tgr.ARPA> <109@spar.UUCP> <963@hound.UUCP> <3096@allegra.UUCP> <631@mhuxt.UUCP> <121@spar.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill Lines: 33 Xref: watmath net.music:6430 net.music.classical:971 > > No doubt that a limited degree of growth must occur within an artistic > subvariety (such as jazz or rock) during its infancy. But such change > disguises the essential sameness of artistic expression over the vast > spread of history, especially to those whose viewpoints are limited to a > very narrow period (less than a hundred years). > Look, you are entitled to your opinion, but that atrikes me as meaningless. When is an art form past "infancy"? Does that objection not always apply? I could make a similar argument shooting down the baroque music you seem to love as compared to tribal Indian classical music. They are both "art" They are both "progress" over their ancestors. If you take art in general as the expression of human emotion in some interesting way, then art is subjective by definition!!! There are some relatively technical standards by which academics and snobs judge art. Progress (or advances) occur when someone comes along and challenges these standards and proves that the standard is not essential to interesting work. In fact all those we hold as geniuses are so because they so successfully challenged the accepted standards of their time and looked further, toward *interesting* expression of their emotions. This argument does not purport to show that "people change". In fact, you are probably right in that the range of human emotions has changed very little since consciousness evolved. It is the expression of those emotions that has changed. WHether such changes are beneficial or not is a subjective matter. I am of the opinion that they do constitute progress, because they are the manifestation of restlessness, dissatisfaction with the way things were done before... All characteristics of the process of creation. Marcel Simon