Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site unc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!mcnc!unc!wfi From: wfi@unc.UUCP (William F. Ingogly) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Dividing Line Message-ID: <171@unc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 7-Mar-85 15:48:34 EST Article-I.D.: unc.171 Posted: Thu Mar 7 15:48:34 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Mar-85 04:48:37 EST References: <731@decwrl.UUCP> <745@amdcad.UUCP> <627@mhuxt.UUCP>Reply-To: wfi@unc.UUCP (William F. Ingogly) Organization: CS Dept., U. of N. Carolina at Chapel Hill Lines: 37 Summary: > Therefore I don't, in general, have any problems with persons 19 or 20 years > old being called boys or girls. However it only seems fair to refer to a > person in the manner that they prefer... > What is the answer? It seems to me that the problem arises when someone refers to 'men and girls' in the middle of a conversation, implying a difference in the way the speaker views the maturity or competence of each sex. I'm sure few people would object to a reference to 'boys and girls' since it implies immaturity (usually in a joking sense) on the part of both sexes. On Friday nights, my grandfather would get out his Meerschaum pipe and cane and loudly announce that he was "going down to the tavern to visit the boys." Similarly, my grandmother would "have the girls over for tea on Saturday afternoon." Neither usage necessarily implies a lack of competence on the part of one sex or the other; it seems to me that this kind of joking reference to immaturity has to do with behavior that's perceived by some members of society as being less than mature, and in some way is meant to be a mild excuse for having a good time in a society that views good times and less-than-adult behavior as somewhat suspect. But when someone writes "...I'm a man who's having a lot of trouble meeting girls..." he's going to offend many people, because the man/girls dichotomy says the speaker regards MOTOS as either being less mature than males or less competent in some way than males. Referring to a 24-year-old white male as 'one of the boys' is clearly acceptable, but referring to a 24-year-old black male as 'one of the boys' is at least ambiguous and may be racist, depending on the speaker's intentions. There's nothing inherently wrong with the words 'boy' or 'girl,' you see; it's all a matter of context and intention. -- W. F. Ingogly University of North Carolina