Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site daisy.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!houxm!vax135!petsd!pesnta!hplabs!nsc!daisy!david From: david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter) Newsgroups: net.followup Subject: Re: Re: Defending Nassau Hall Message-ID: <80@daisy.UUCP> Date: Mon, 4-Mar-85 01:11:10 EST Article-I.D.: daisy.80 Posted: Mon Mar 4 01:11:10 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 9-Mar-85 05:55:00 EST References: <2007@inmet.UUCP> Reply-To: david@daisy.UUCP (David Schachter) Organization: Daisy Systems Corp., Mountain View, Ca Lines: 44 Mr. Stern tries to change the discussion from whether Princeton tends to tenure professors who can't teach into a discussion of student/teacher ratios. I maintain my claim that Princeton professors, by and large, cannot teach well. Mr. Stern suggests that I call the University and ask about the current fund-raising/marketing campaign and about changes in the EECS department. I have done better than that: I visited the place a few weeks ago. Nothing much has changed since I left, three years ago. Mr. Stern follows this suggestion with a nasty comment. His comment is out of place and does not advance this discussion. Mr. Stern points to vocational schools as great places to learn to "take apart TV sets". He claims that Princeton teaches theory and allows the student to do independent work to learn how things work in the real world. Unfortunately, independent work is precisely that: independent. Students usually work alone or in a team of two. "Real world" projects tend to involve many engineers and others. Princeton does not teach would-be engineers how to work in "real world" environments. Moreover, Princeton professors do not have much "real world" experience. Finally, there is a world of difference between an independent project and a commercial system. At Princeton, students are not given any indication of this. There is little communication between Princeton and industry. Mr. Stern claims "Nobody says you can't learn 'real engineering' when you are taught theory." I disagree. Princeton students learn little about how to make programs reliable or maintainable. Princeton students learn little about cost estimating or scheduling. Princeton students learn little about documentation or system design. Princeton students learn little about debugging. "Independent study" is not an adequate solution. One might as well advocate the teaching of theory by giving the student an all-day pass to the library! Knowledge doesn't just "soak in." Finally, Mr. Stern indicates that WPRB (the campus radio station) is not a for-profit radio station. In this he is correct and I was mistaken. I was merely parroting what the University told me when I was recruited. It was dumb of me to expect University marketing hype to be truthful. I should have known better. -- David Schachter [The opinions expressed in this article are soley those of the author and are not necessarily those of my company, its employees, or subsidiaries.] {It's quite easy, Mrs. Smythe-Worthington. You just put the blinking dot on the area of the world you want to destroy and press the button.}