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From: nrh@inmet.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Orphaned Response
Message-ID: <2004@inmet.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 27-Feb-85 02:16:40 EST
Article-I.D.: inmet.2004
Posted: Wed Feb 27 02:16:40 1985
Date-Received: Sun, 3-Mar-85 02:57:44 EST
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Nf-ID: #R:whuxl:-48800:inmet:7800314:177600:2122
Nf-From: inmet!nrh    Feb 26 01:30:00 1985

>***** inmet:net.politics / whuxl!orb /  7:00 pm  Feb 22, 1985
>> Mc Kiernan
>>      Should I ever possess a piece of land such that an Indian can
>> reasonably demonstrate that (s)he is legitimate heir to a legitimate owner
>> who had the property wrested from h(im|er), I will turn it over.
>
>This misses the point.  Of course no Indians will have any "deed" or "title"
>to any land since they did not consider land something that could be owned.
>To the Indians such a question would be equivalent to asking what gives 
>anybody the right to breathe the air: where's the title for such an activity?
>Who owns the air?  How do you claim to wrest *my* air from me?
>            tim sevener   whuxl!orb
>PS - I would also like to ask the Libertarians on this net what they paid
>for the privilege to use the net.  Did you pay your $$$$$ for the right to
>express your opinions?  WHAT!! You think that some people should be able
>to express their opinions without *paying* for it!! Heresy!!
>----------
>

Tim:  I don't ordinarily pay for freely-given gifts.  Libertarians
have argued in this forum that one doesn't have to, but you've
responded here as if such objections were never made.  They have been.

Please get over this notion that libertarians want everyone to pay for
everything.  That's impossible and silly.  Think of it this way:  There
are three ways I can get what I want from you:  I can receive it 
as a gift, I can purchase it from you, or I can initiate force or fraud
to get what I want from you.  Libertarians are only interested in
a society relatively free of the last method.  I would 
prefer (I think) the first method, but it's not practical in most cases.
Of course, we've in general no OBJECTION to the first method at all.
For details, you might check out Friedman's "Machinery of Freedom" -- 
the chapter "Love is Not Enough" is what inspired this article.

Of course, it's possible you knew this all along, in which case,
chalk up another straw man for you.....

By the way, when I speak here of "Libertarians", I'm speaking for myself
and most of those libertarian philosophers I've read.