Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hou4b.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!mhuxv!mhuxh!mhuxi!mhuxm!mhuxj!houxm!vax135!ariel!hou5f!hou4b!mat From: mat@hou4b.UUCP (Mark Terribile) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Homosexuality and the bible Message-ID: <1318@hou4b.UUCP> Date: Wed, 6-Feb-85 17:15:28 EST Article-I.D.: hou4b.1318 Posted: Wed Feb 6 17:15:28 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 9-Feb-85 09:25:22 EST References: <137@cci-bdc.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ Lines: 109 There's been an awful lot of anti-Christian flaming here. Now before you hit BREAK, hear me out for just a little bit. You'll disagree with this, but give it a chance. (Perhaps this belongs in net.flame. Perhaps the original item does, too.) >>that is NOT in the bible (^^^^^ above ^^^^^)...it's self-righteous assholes >like you that put their own words in god's mouth until they became law >in the first place... > >what ever happened to "Judge not lest ye shall be judged." ??????? What ever happened to it? It's still active. True, there are folk who will decide that they should be the instruments of God's wrath. On the other hand, there are those who believe that they have to speak the truth as they see it, just as you believe that you must be true to yourself. Please, save your anger for the former group. The latter are just as sincere as you are, whether you can understand it or not. They believe that they have a duty, both to God and to YOU to speak as they do. >did it ever occur to you (in your infinitely narrow train of thought that runs >on a circular track around a monument built out of bibles and hymns that >attests to just how holy thou art) that maybe I too, have "a personal >relationship with Jesus Christ, my savior." That maybe i, too, sit down and >talk to god, and lean on him sometimes, except that i figure 99% of the time >he's got bigger things on his mind than me, so why should i bother him with >my petty bullshit..."the lord helps those who help themselves" That circular track, for some lucky people, is the belief that they should have nothing on their minds bigger than God. As to ``how holy thou art'' ... where do you draw the line between believing that you are doing the right thing and being self-righteous? It isn't always obvious. >...if a friend comes to me and says that they caught (for example) a sexually >transmitted disease and they are disturbed by it, i try to comfort them, not >give them fire and brimstone... And there are PLENTY of Christians who will do the same thing. That's compassion and common sense and it does not contradict our instructions from God. Remember, Jesus ate with those ``known'' to be sinners. >since when is touching someone you love in ways that make them feel good (from >sex to a simple hug or a backrub) so evil???? >> Leviticus 18:22-30 >> Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination. >the way most men of the time treated their women, it would be an abomination. >>... >> Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these >> abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not >> yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God. ... >but those words could just have easily been inserted in as any you have >said...maybe i'm hell-bound, but i kind of doubt it . . . if i was made by >god, and whatever god makes is good, then i, too, am good...i choose to be >good...i do NOT choose my sexual preference...(so it must come from god, and >therefore is good)... For the thoughtful Christian, this is the crux of a moral dilemma: Does this orientation, not of an individual's choosing, give someone the burden of obeying very severe laws that others are not burdened by? Or does it give them the right to contravene statements that appear (to many, anyway) to be clear prohibitions? >what would YOU do when you found out a friend had AIDS????? would you >hold their hand, hug them when they cried, feed them when they were too >weak to eat, hold them when they were delerious with fever and didn't >know you were there? NO, DAMN YOU!!!! You would be spouting your >GOD-DAMNED, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, POMPOUS BULLSHIT that was handed to you >by your "god" about how it was all brought on him by HIMSELF!!!! I sort of hope that my reaction would be compassion, but it would probably be confusion. Sorry, I'm less than perfect. >i don't care WHAT you want to believe!!! you can come and have your meetings >and talk about how evil all the queers are and how good all of you tight- >assed filthy Christians are because you've accepted god -- but in the process >you've forsaken what god wanted you to keep in mind as much as himself -- >YOUR FELLOW MAN... Hmm. I don't know anyone who does that. As I said, there are dilemmas involved, but there's a difference between ``We don't want society to say what you're doing is right.'' and ``We want to burn you at the stake because we want to see you burn in Hell.'' >i'm scared to death that one day my sexual preference will be OUTLAWED!!! For what it's worth, it was (and probably still is). Most people nowadays are content to let things go on behind closed doors. This wasn't always true ... look at Oscar Wilde and Alan Turing. >just don't expect a warm welcome on my front porch when you come to tell >me i'm doomed to hell, or three of you get together with a bunch of chains >and beat up some of my friends coming out of a gay bar or you assault the >youngest of us (gay men and lesbians) that are part of your own flesh as >well, deny them their right to live and love as they choose and leave >them with scars that perhaps will never be erased... I doubt that you are speaking to your audience here. It's unlikely that too many people on this net are doing many of the things that you have described. And the people engaging in assuaults such as those you describe are NOT behaving in a very Christian manner, so perhaps flaming at Christians is not speaking to your audience either. -- from Mole End Mark Terribile (scrape .. dig ) hou4b!mat ,.. .,, ,,, ..,***_*.