Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site whuxl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!houxm!whuxl!orb From: orb@whuxl.UUCP (SEVENER) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: The FORCE of Property Message-ID: <423@whuxl.UUCP> Date: Thu, 10-Jan-85 11:45:11 EST Article-I.D.: whuxl.423 Posted: Thu Jan 10 11:45:11 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 12-Jan-85 00:59:00 EST References: <4521@cbscc.UUCP> Organization: Bell Labs Lines: 32 Libertarians on the net have been constantly reiterating a concern with the "force" of government. This is certainly a legitimate concern and I am glad that our Constitution puts certain limits on that force. However for Libertarians to argue that the reign of private property will mean the end of all force is an error. Property can only be maintained by force. How do I insure someone doesn't come on my land? I use force, either calling in the force of the State or using my own force. Either way excluding others from the use of my property requires the use of force. That Libertarians and their philosophy may not lead to reduced force and violence can be seen in their response to the problem of gun control and the Goetz case. I will not say that all Libertarians have argued in favor of the untrammelled distribution of guns but some certainly have. And why? To inflict potentially lethal force on people threatening their PROPERTY. So it turns out that this proposed diminution of force is a chimera. Force is justified (for Libertarians) in the defense of private property. I would argue that force is to some extent *necessary* for the existence of private property. Once again we return to the example of the American Indians who had no concept of land ownership. How then did the European settlers manage to impose their definition of land ownership and claim untamed land as private property? By brutal force. If you wish to read about such force I would suggest "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee". It contains history and not fantasy about the force involved in staking private property claims. "As I was walking that ribbon of highway I saw a sign said , "No trespassing" But the other side of the sign said nothing That sign was made for you and me" Woody Guthrie tim sevener whuxl!orb