Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site talcott.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!genrad!teddy!panda!talcott!gjk
From: gjk@talcott.UUCP (Greg Kuperberg)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.religion
Subject: Re: It Cant Happen Here
Message-ID: <236@talcott.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 16-Jan-85 21:24:43 EST
Article-I.D.: talcott.236
Posted: Wed Jan 16 21:24:43 1985
Date-Received: Sat, 19-Jan-85 06:38:42 EST
References: <658@ihopb.UUCP>
Organization: Harvard
Lines: 49
Xref: watmath net.politics:6960 net.religion:5316

> We get enough self-righteous mouthings on this net about
> the "evil empire," so here's some cheerful news about the
> respect for religion and human beings in Ronald Reagan Land:
...
[NY Times article about refugees from El Salvador omitted]
...
>                 Andy Berman

Self-righteous mouthings?  The subject of Soviet oppression is usually
addressed by Fundamentalist crazies or not at all (Well, not always, but
usually).  I feel that it is worthy of more discussion than that.

Since you've made an implicit comparison between that "evil empire" and the
U.S., I think it's high time for some old statistics.

[O= 10,000 people]

1) War deaths in Cambodia in the past ten years (largely due to war with
Soviet-backed Vietnam):

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

2) War deaths in El Salvador in the past ten years (Note that I said *ten*
years, not just the four that Reagan's been in office):

OOOOO

I realize that someone might say to this:  "Well, who cares about the
Soviet Union.  We live in the U.S., not Russia."  And my reply is:
Firstly, I am replying to Berman's implicit comparison between the two
countries.  Secondly, we have a significant amount of influence over the
Soviet Union.  We trade with them, we lend them money, and we do jockey for
political power with them all over the globe.  For example, while we send
less than 500 million dollars in aid anually to El Salvador, we have loaned
Poland several tens of billions, and they still owe us (and are hard-put to
pay us) something between 30 and 60 billion dollars (I can't remember
which figure is right).

The main thing is, governments are rarely judged on a comparitive basis.
As compared to other governments in the world, the U.S.'s government ranks
fairly well.
---
			Greg Kuperberg
		     harvard!talcott!gjk

"Nice boy, but about as sharp as a sack of wet mice." - Foghorn Leghorn