Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83 based; site hou2h.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!houxm!hou2h!mr From: mr@hou2h.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Sigh, Still Goetz? Message-ID: <742@hou2h.UUCP> Date: Tue, 15-Jan-85 10:10:15 EST Article-I.D.: hou2h.742 Posted: Tue Jan 15 10:10:15 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 16-Jan-85 05:26:31 EST References: <3279@alice.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ Lines: 67 - Now, look, kiddies, I didn't say that Goetz was AUTOMATICALLY wrong. I - pointed out that it was POSSIBLE that he had many other courses of - action than shooting his way out. Nobody but Goetz could have made the decision at that time and he made the decision and is now alive and well. - I don't automatically buy the idea that he HAD to shoot his way out, - on the other hand, I don't deny the possibility (unlike what some - of you rabid mail writers seem to think!) that he HAD to shoot - his way out. - I don't think he should be considered a HERO until the facts are - in, and I don't mean the NEWS MEDIA facts, I mean the court action, - resolution of charges, and the like. He definitely should not be considered a hero. - While I have a less than thorough respect for the criminal justice system - myself, it's still much better than vigilantism in any form. This is not vigilantism. Vigilante: (Websters Ninth 1983) A member of a volunteer committee organized to suppress and punish crime summarily (as when the processes of the law seem inadequate ). We see from this definition that Goetz, being a lone man on the subway is not a committee of any kind to suppress crime, He just had to protect his own life, a basic natural instinct. - Suppose that someone who read Mr. Goetz's story doesn't like - large WASP types with a dark beard and a female campanion: - "Oh. He's big and ugly, and she's a different race. He MUST be - holding her against her will!. BANG****"(Not to imply that I am any of those listed in - the paranthetical comment. No judgement is involved.) What is your problem ???? Mr Goetz was in the process of being mugged. The 4 muggers were not sitting on the subway quietly without doing anything. You are making it look like Mr. Goetz went on the subway and looked for 4 punks and then shot them before they got a chance to get up out of their seat. YOU are DISTORTING the facts and mixing your metaphors (or whatever they call mismatched comparisons). - "But Judge, your honor, maam/sir, I felt REALLY threatened, after all, - he was almost as big, strong, and heavy as I am" - "Fine, sonny, it was an accident that he was a leading research scientist - in this esoteric subject I can't pronounce so it couldn't be - too important. Not guilty!" I won't even respond to this. - I think it's clear that one should be quite permitted to save one's self - in a potentially injurious situation. It should also be encumbent on - the individual to be as slightly injurious as possible. Exactly. - People who shoot their way out of a critical situation should not - AUTOMATICALLY be heroes. If it turns out they were, fine.(To put it mildly) - If (oh, heaven forbid. a vigilante mistaken? Lynch would be - surprised.) they were wrong, or deliberately excessive, that's a crime. - It's no more or less serious than the one that was (ostensibly) prevented. Don't use the word vigilante and certainly not the word lynch in reference to this case since they have been now proven not to apply. Mark