Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-i
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:Pucc-I:agz
From: agz@pucc-i (banta)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
Message-ID: <812@pucc-i>
Date: Mon, 14-Jan-85 04:12:09 EST
Article-I.D.: pucc-i.812
Posted: Mon Jan 14 04:12:09 1985
Date-Received: Tue, 15-Jan-85 02:23:16 EST
References: <118@decwrl.UUCP>, <210@talcott.UUCP>, <704@hou2h.UUCP>, <158@abnji.UUCP>, <714@hou2h.UUCP> <165@abnji.UUCP> <918@amdahl.UUCP>
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Lines: 90

[]

From: mr@hou2h.UUCP (M.RINDSBERG)
> I also do not solve this with a gun, I try to stay away from the subways
> late at night and observe the standard precautions of evening travel in
> the city.  I did not say that at the time Mr. Goetz judged if he could have,
> I am just saying that after the fact, What is the net loss to society ?

Well, it could have been 4 people.  Regardless of your opinion, I feel that
we don't just dispose of people and say "Oh well, he doesn't matter, he
would have never contributed."  At this point, I think you may have
three people walking around with a chip on thier collective shoulders.
Is this what you wanted?

> - > I think he should have killed all 4. People (People ?) will then think
> - > 	twice before mugging, killing, raping .....
> - 
> - Sick, sick, sick.  The instant-justice death penalty for a $5 mugging.
> - The way I heard it, they didn't even threaten him, just asked (a bit
> - strange, I admit).  But I'm sure that there are people who believe that
> - they were ready to rip his eyes out if he didn't pay ...
> Do you actually think they asked him nicely for $5.00 ??? I don't think so.
> Last time I was mugged, the guy had a knife in his pocket and was ready to
> either wound or kill me if I didn't give him the money immediately, and worst
> of all the guy was about 15 years old, maybe less. Who said anything about
> instant-justice death ?  I just said that Goetz did what he thought he had 
> to do to protect his own life.

I fail to see how "I think he should have killed all 4." == "Goetz did
what he thought he had to do to protect his own life."  If you ask me,
it still sounds like "instant-justice death penalty".  Last time I got
"mugged", three guys trapped me in a bathroom and asked for two bucks.
I told them I didn't have two dollars, and after a little harrassing
from them I got out.

> At least these millions are looking for jobs and do not have a record with
> the police for violent crimes.

So we get back to the instant-justice deal.  How about we narrow it down
to just shooting everyone who is out of work for two weeks and has a
police record.  Does that satisfy you?  And by the way, in all the
articles I've read about it (once I got past the drivel on how popular
Goetz is) mention nothing about these guys have violent crimes in their
police records.  In fact I read nothing about any prior police records
on them.

> - What was stopping them from being on the subway at that time?  Is there
> - something that restrcits when people can and can't be on the subway?
> - What was Goetz doing on the subway at that time?
> 
> The punks were "hanging out", Mr. Goetz was on his way to a destination.

So that answers question three.  Is there something that says "You can't
ride the subway unless you have a specific destination?"  There are
numerous places I used to "hang out" when I was younger.  But then
again, I guess that if you're jobless you aren't allowed to hang out,
and if your only preplanned purpose is to ask people for money or mug
people then you can't hang out.  Let's put together a list of thing that
restricts you from hanging out, ok?

> Mr. Goetz is alive.
> By the way the paralyzed punk has slipped into a coma. This fact got 
> about 25 seconds on the news last night and what Mr. Goetz did all day
> got about 4 minutes. (He bought a toy fire engine for a gift and then ate
> lunch at a small diner in NJ, they even told us what he had for lunch).
> People were asking him for autographs and the like.
> The newspeople said that every person they spoke to thinks of him as a
> hero. I do not think he is a hero, I just think that he is smart for
> preserving his life in the manner necessary.

So he's alive.  He gets news coverage.  What he did was newsworthy.
Probably not to the extent that it's getting covered, but the medias's
misplaced priorities is another story.  It this is true that a majority
of people think of him as a hero, I think I'm going to be ill.  I think
of him as a very violent and disturbed man, to the point of being
criminal.  Unfortunately, since we live in the age of popular opinion
justice, he'll probably be set free.  I can't determine if he protected
himself in a necessary manner.  I fail to see how shooting "punks" is
necessary in any case.  I think with a gun, he could have "persuaded"
them to think again, without shooting them.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Banta			{decvax!allegra!ihnp4}!pur-ee!pucc-k!agz
Dept. of Mental Instability, Purdue University --- "I'm OK, You're a CS Major"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"On your own admission, you raised up the knife,
 And brought it down ending another man's life.
 When you were done, you just threw down the blade,
 While the red blood spread wider like the anger you'd made."