Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui Q. Koala) Newsgroups: net.news,net.news.stargate,net.followup Subject: Re: STARGATE (READ THIS!) Message-ID: <2226@nsc.UUCP> Date: Fri, 18-Jan-85 00:23:38 EST Article-I.D.: nsc.2226 Posted: Fri Jan 18 00:23:38 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 19-Jan-85 00:12:27 EST References: <504@vortex.UUCP> Reply-To: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Chuqui Q. Koala) Organization: The Warlocks Cave Lines: 151 Xref: watmath net.news:2985 net.news.stargate:29 net.followup:4348 Summary: I sincerely hope that Lauren doesn't pull out his support because of the insane ramblings of people who really don't know what they are talking about, but if he does, I can't blame him. For many of the same reasons he uses I've found myself pulling back and spending a lot less time working my guts out trying to keep the net running or trying to improve it. Every time anyone does anything that looks like an attempt to change something (better, worse, or simply different) there is always a small but vocal group of people who seem to get their kicks by trying to tear down any constructive action at all. I've spent a LOT of time on the net, and Lauren has spent a LOT of time on Stargate, and Rick has spent a LOT of time on the source, and Gene ha spent a LOT of time on keeping things straight, and Mark, well, Mark has spent more of his (and his wife's) time than all of us put together, cubed. None of us (contrary to what I expect we'll hear shortly) get paid for this. A lot of times we wonder why we bother, and every so often we get real frustrated and yell at each other to make sure the net doesn't see it (if it did, that frustration tends to turn into month long pitched battles). Look. We aren't fascists. People who insist on calling us fascists don't have any idea what that word really means. We aren't out for mind control, we aren't out for power, we aren't out for anything but a smoothly running net. Because we have to deal with the net on a day to day (sometimes hour to hour basis) and talk to a LOT of the people who run the net, I think we have a different view of the net than the people who simply have the priviledge of using the damn thing. There are a number of people out there that I don't consider qualified to change the disk drives on MacDuff that seem to think they know as much about the operation of the net as Mark, the software as Rick, or Stargate as Lauren. I mean, seriously-- if you haven't spent months bickering with the carriers lawyers, how in the HELL can you suggest seriously that we really don't need moderators or that we can do it in software? If you people seriously want to try to get along without a group of overworked and harried people who happen to spend a lot of time keeping this thing running so you can bitch at us about it, then fine. Let me know. I'll rmgroup mod.singles, I'll unsubscribe to net.news, and I'll laugh if and when the system dies. We can cancel Stargate, we can watch the backbones start restricting news, the software can get flakey, and, if you could get it through the garbage, everyone who is yelling at the fascists for trying to do a thankless job would spend just as much time yelling at us for letting it fall apart. I don't know about the rest of them, but I am sometimes tempted to just step back and watch the damn thing die. I have a Macintosh I seems to spend most of my time using as a terminal to work on net related things. I'd much rather work on Mac related things, personally. I know Gene would LOVE to finish his thesis without going insane, and Mark has this wonderful child due any time, and Rick would love a good nights sleep. Lauren would LOVE to pay his rent next month. If you want to take over my slot running news, have fun. A few things to keep in mind: type fast, and have lots of disk. I average between .25 and 1 megabyte of mail a week. I spend between 45 minutes and two hours a day on mail, about half of that on news, answering questions like 'My inews coredumped. how do I fix it?' Have a company that doesn't mind phone bills, lots of disk space, random changes to the usenet software. I have, at various times, been running three simultaneous versions of news, with three full databases, as I try to keep a production version up, test an old version somewhere else looking for an inews or an expire bug, and attempte to beta test a new version of software for you so it has some chance of being stable when it gets out to the rest of you. Most of who, of course, won't bother to upgrade, bringing me to Know the software. You can't only operate on 2.10.2 (or 2.10.3) on 4.2, you have to understand how that affects 2.10.1, 2.10, notes, system V, PDP11's, Genix, Venix, Xenix, Kleenix, and the phase of the moons and tides. I recently posted a discussion of sys files, researched VERY heavily through 4 versions of news and uncounted forms of Unix, and things still slipped through my fingers. Most people seem to do nothing more than compile news, install it, and then bitch about the quality. I've found myself dreaming designs for news enhancements. Those kinds of nightmares I don't need. Get a bottle of aspirin. Large. The second you stand up as a public figure, someone will attempt to knock you back down. Guaranteed. Some people rate their own successes by how they ruin others. Maalox helps, too. Tact, tact, and more tact. One of the things you can't do when you are working on something like the net is let your own personal views take precedence. We've bent over backwards (in my case and in Laurens, almost to the breaking point, it seems) to keep our personal views to a minimum. If I really WAS fascist, and if I really DID run the then the way some people accuse me, this net would run a lot better than it does, because I wouldn't take the shit I see out there. I do a number of things I don't particularly care for because the majority of the users prefer it that was. Some fascism. People yell at you, you don't yell back (I am now, but that is becasue I find I'm not sure I really care anymore). You smile, and try to talk calmly. People make outrageous suggestions (hey, why don't we rewrite all the news software to include a way of passing encrypted love letters across the ethernet to VMS systems? By next week? And when you're done, fly out here and install it in my system, OK? and I'll yell for you to fix it if I find a bug') and assume they get done by magic. People out there take a hell of a lot for granted, as far as I can tell (not everyone-- we see constructive suyggestions, advice, thank you notes, and the like as well, but always from mostly the same small group that always helps out). This place isn't magic-- it is blood, and sweat, and tears, and ulcers. You want to use your blood and sweat and tears and stomach acid, fine. What I've found is that the people who really like to yell tend to disappear when faced with actually having to stand up and produce. I could go on yelling forever, and I probably should because it is making me feel better, but I can feel those 'F' key fingers itching out there. Let me close with the following comments: o I wish I understood why I take this abuse. If I did, I probably wouldn't. o Regardless of what I say in my saner moments (like this) I'll probably continue to be stupid and work to make the damned net better for all of you, despite everything you do to discourage me. o I hope Lauren does the same, although I don't blame him if he doesn't. o I wish this silly machine was on the Arpanet. It may be moderated, it may be fascist, it may not have complete freedom of expression (which, as far as I can tell, means allowing people to make complete asses of themselves with no checks and balances whatsoever) and it may not have all the useless topics that this network has, but it works, dammit. o I can't say the same for this net. Usenet is broken, has been for a while, and will continue to get worse until someone is allowed to do some work fixing it. yelling, screaming, and bitching doesn't do it. Finding ways of fixing it and giving people the ability to do it does. usenet is marginally functional at best. Stargate is a way, I hope, to help that. I think it is a good way. Which means, of course, that it has no chance in hell of succeeding. o May all those people whose only contribution to usenet is the mindless flaming of the intelligent people be infected by the fleas of a thousand camels. o go ahead, send mail. If I wasn't a masochist, I wouldn't be here. sincerely, the same to you the fascist pig, megalomaniac supreme, power hungry, tactless, and general all around idiot. -- From the ministry of silly talks: Chuq Von Rospach {allegra,cbosgd,decwrl,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA Do not wait until tomorrow to tell someone you care. Tomorrow doesn't always come.