Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site abnji.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!mhuxv!abnji!jca From: jca@abnji.UUCP (james armstrong) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Message-ID: <165@abnji.UUCP> Date: Wed, 9-Jan-85 14:05:33 EST Article-I.D.: abnji.165 Posted: Wed Jan 9 14:05:33 1985 Date-Received: Fri, 11-Jan-85 08:04:52 EST References: <118@decwrl.UUCP>, <210@talcott.UUCP>, <704@hou2h.UUCP>, <158@abnji.UUCP>, <714@hou2h.UUCP> Organization: ATTIS, NJ Lines: 100 >- >>> ********** FREE BERNHARD GOETZ ! ! ! ! ****************************** >- >>> ********** (and give him more bullets) ****************************** >- >> >- >>No, let him have a long conversation with the guy he paralyzed (a pretty >- >>severe punishment for an attempted mugging). >- > >- >Lets talk about the guy he paralyzed. >- >Would he have ever contributed positively to society ? >- >Do you normally walk around with sharpened screwdrivers ? >- >I think he should have killed all 4. People (People ?) will then think >- > twice before mugging, killing, raping ..... >- > >- >Next, Why don't the 4 have jobs ? What were they doing on the subway >- >at that time ? >- >- Good point. Why don't they have jobs? Why has the education system >- failed them? Could it be that society hasn't given them the advantages >- it gives us? Could it be that they see that as the only way they can get >- money? If we were to stop thinking about punishing criminals and start >- thinking about preventing crime by making in unecessary, we will finally >- be able to call ourselves civilized. Until then... > >Why has the education system failed them !?!?!? Its just the reverse >they have failed the education system. >WOULD YOU GIVE THEM A JOB ???? What I had intended to imply was that they were uneducated because the schools in their neighborhood were entirely inadequate. Who's fault is this? The schools I was educated in were funded from property taxes. In many areas of NYC, you couldn't get enough money that way to make a dent into a proper education budget. (I must admit I do not know how NYC funds their schools, but I'll bet they used to get alot of federal money.) Why have they failed? Peer pressure makes the ones who want to learn afraid to learn. Teachers do not want to encourage their students to learn. Schools become diploma mills, students without a future see no point in continuing and drop out. The schools need to be revamped so that our societies children want to learn, and have equal access to educational facilities. >The only way to get money ? What ? What the hell is welfare all >about ???? >When I had no job and no money , I certainly didn't go around mugging >people. >Society hasn't given them the advantages ? Bull !!! Welfare is meant to provide a basic standard of living, not "luxury." All around New York, you see advertisments for different styles of luxury, yet these poor people whom society has forgotten have no means of getting that, it must be awfully frustrating. >There are public schools all over the country in which anyone can >attend and given a certain amount of initiative they can become a >positive part of society. As I said earlier, initiative is stiffled through peer pressure. Change that environment and maybe the results will change. >There is one way to stop crime, make the punishment so unbearable >such that before committing the crime the person will think very >hard about doing it. Even if the punishment must be the death penalty >(and I am not saying that it must be), but something has to be done. >- >- It seems funny that those European countries who do all those things we >- say will not stop crime have a significantly lower crime rate than us. I >- wonder why? > >I think we should make sure that the matter of ethnic groups does >NOT ever enter the conversation here. > > Mark The reference to Europe was meant to point out the following: They have no death penalty, something people here claim will stop crime They have severe gun control. Guns are not easily available, so criminals do not have them. Crimes, when they occur, are not as violent. In spite of the lack of availability of guns, and in spite of the lack of the "deterent" death penalty, out European allies suffer a much lower crime rate. Why? Perhaps they work to prevent crime right from the birth? A cynics definition of a recession is that that is when whites find it as difficult to get jobs as blacks always do. (In spite of so called Affirmative Action.) More than anything else, in my opinion, this lack of jobs is the cause of crime. To correct this problem involves more effort than our society is willing to provide, it is not as easy as just jailing the lot of them. JCA -- She dreams of 1969 Before the soldiers came When life was cheap on bread and wine And sharing meant no shame She is awakened by the screams Of rockets fired from nearby Yet still she wakes into a dream To beat the fear that she might die.