Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site watarts.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!watarts!kevyn
From: kevyn@watarts.UUCP (KCT)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!
Message-ID: <8214@watarts.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 13-Jan-85 23:26:09 EST
Article-I.D.: watarts.8214
Posted: Sun Jan 13 23:26:09 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 14-Jan-85 04:29:29 EST
References: <118@decwrl.UUCP> <210@talcott.UUCP> <704@hou2h.UUCP> <809@pucc-k> <1157@teddy.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Faculty of Mathematics
Lines: 57

> In article <809@pucc-k> agz@pucc-k (Andrew Banta) writes:
> >[]
> >
> >This is entirely irrelevant!  Who was Goetz to judge if they could have
> >or couldn't have?  There are a lot of people who I don't think have ever
> >or will ever contribute to society.  I don't solve this with a gun.
> 
> Their contribution to society is irrelevant, but for different reasons.
> I think Goetz was thinking about survival, not the muggers' worth in society.
> 
> >> I think he should have killed all 4. People (People ?) will then think
> >> 	twice before mugging, killing, raping .....
> >
> >Sick, sick, sick.  The instant-justice death penalty for a $5 mugging.
> >The way I heard it, they didn't even threaten him, just asked (a bit
> >strange, I admit).  But I'm sure that there are people who believe that
> >they were ready to rip his eyes out if he didn't pay ...
> 
> Mabey they were. Why did they have the sharpened screwdrivers?
> 
> >Why don't you face up to the fact that what Goetz did was WRONG!  
> 
> Why don't YOU face up to the fact that Goetz was defending himself and
> the kids are the real criminals!
> 
> >should press every one of them.  Maybe it'll teach people to use the
> >justice system we have in the US and not create their own.  In case you
> >hadn't realized it, vigilantes are at least as dangerous as other
> >criminals!
> 
> Right, I'm sure Goetz was thinking "Hmm these boys have no worth, and 
> they tried to mug me. The punishment in my personal justice system is 
> that one of them should be maimed." Give me a break! 
> Vigilantes??? Andy, the guy didn't hunt them down, they came and mugged
> HIM! He was just defending his life! If he were a vigilante he would have
> killed all four!

     I can't tell you what the solution to this dilemma is, of course,
but I can say this:  In my view, Goetz was wrong to have a gun.  Someone was
wrong in allowing him to obtain one.  The "System" was wrong in allowing
him to possess one.  Quite a bit must be wrong if 
a)  criminals exist in such large numbers
b)  children need to turn to crime
c)  guns (and other weapons) exist in such large numbers.

     I have always, in the event of a robbery, simply submitted, and done
whatever was asked.  If the robbers had decided, and tried, to kill me, I
would have obviously defended myself, since, above all stupid "material"
things, my life is the one thing I prize.  I would not have sought to kill
my attacker(s) but simply stop them from harming my own or other people's
lives.  Neither I nor the world has anything to gain from the loss of life
anywhere.  I am not saying this is what Goetz should have done, but only
what I have done in the past and will continue to do in the future.


Kevyn Collins-Thompson    University of Waterloo, Waterloo, ON, CANADA !!
      ....{allegra|clyde|utzoo|ihnp4|decvax}!watmath!watarts!kevyn