Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ukma.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!hasmed!qusavx!ukma!david From: david@ukma.UUCP (David Herron, NPR Lover) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!! Message-ID: <491@ukma.UUCP> Date: Sun, 13-Jan-85 02:43:01 EST Article-I.D.: ukma.491 Posted: Sun Jan 13 02:43:01 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 14-Jan-85 05:17:42 EST References: <118@decwrl.UUCP> Organization: Univ. of KY Mathematical Sciences Lines: 45 This recent discussion on Bernhard Goetz is strange. I just saw this argument in _Starship_Troopers_ (For you uncivilized types, this is a book by Robert Heinlein) when I was re-reading it today. Here is his argument (in a nutshell): 1. Part of societies job is to train new members of society. 2. How does one train a dog to not poo poo on the carpet. This is done by shoving the dogs nose in it, pounding on him, and in other ways making him know that something is wrong and that you are mad at him. 3. Societies in old times (The book is set some centuries in the future, they are talking about the middle to late 20-th century here) didn't properly punish their naughty people and thus had lots of crime. (Such scandalous things as the parks being unsafe, people having to go around armed all the time, etc.) This started with juvenile delinquents. They would do some naughty act and simply get their hand slapped. Do something again, and still get their hand slapped. Do it a third time, end up with a probated sentence to a reform school. (Yet Another Hand Slap (YASH)). Eventually they might land in reform school, but that is just more training on how to be a better crook. They grow up being anti-social and no amount of rehabilitating is going to change this. 4. Parents (in those olden days of the mid 20-th century) didn't spank their children. This argument develops in a similar manner to (and also leads to) [3]. [If you are interested in the exact arguments, re/read the book. It should be available at better book stores everywhere. (Though you may have to go to a second hand book-store.] I guess it is like any relationship. The way it ends up has a lot to do with the way it started. If it starts off bad then it is hard to correct later. And it gets worse the longer you wait. -:--:- David Herron; ARPA-> "ukma!david"@ANL-MCS or david%ukma.uucp@anl-mcs.arpa (Note the quotes on the first. Try the second please.) {ucbvax,unmvax,boulder,research} ! {anlams,anl-mcs} -| |- !ukma!david {cbosgd!hasmed,mcvax!qtlon,vax135,mddc} ! qusavx -|