Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: nyu notesfiles V1.1 4/1/84; site rna.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hao!seismo!cmcl2!rna!serge From: serge@rna.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: How to get my Goetz, or, don't stop Message-ID: <43000006@rna.UUCP> Date: Mon, 14-Jan-85 14:09:00 EST Article-I.D.: rna.43000006 Posted: Mon Jan 14 14:09:00 1985 Date-Received: Mon, 14-Jan-85 00:55:11 EST References: <3252@alice.UUCP> Lines: 41 Nf-ID: #R:alice:-325200:rna:43000006:000:2623 Nf-From: rna!serge Jan 11 14:09:00 1985 You are correct in saying that Goetz is basically wrong in having lashed out with his weapon under the letter of the law. He had a superior force, which, if he had displayed it with a stern warning, would have probably caused the alleged thugs to back off and leave him alone. Because of this fact, I don't think that he can legally claim self defence. As was aptly pointed out in one news report, Goetz crossed the line from self defence to inflicting punishment, a right he did not have under the law. However, I personnaly sympathize with what he did. I am a native New Yorker and I and just about everyone I know has had some crime or other commited against them. Most of these crimes have gone unpunished and the situation does not seem to be getting any better. Goetz himself had a serious incident which may have cause his vigillantism. Several years ago, while carrying several thousand dollars worth of equipment he had purchased on Canal St. for use in conjuction with his buisness, he was assaulted by three thugs who grabed his stuff and started to run. Fortuanatly for Goetz there was a police officer present. Two of the thugs dropped the loot and disappeared. The third was grabbed by Goetz who wrestled with him. In the scuffle one of Goetz's ribs was broken. The cop took both of them down to the station. The thug was back on the street in two hours. Goetz, on the other hand, was held for six hours all the while in great pain from his injury. Later, when Goetz tried to prosecute, the thug filled counter charges and Goetz was basically told to shake hands and make up. God damn, I'd be angry as hell. This is justice? You mind your own bussiness, get attacked, have several thousand dollars of your property threatended, get a painful injury and then see the thug suffer less inconvinience than yourself? The public reaction to this incident show just how fed up New Yorkers are with the state of justice and police protection. Yes, I agree that it is wrong and dangerous for individuals to meet out justice from the barrel of thier gun but with the thugs being allowed to run free, many of us have no sympathy for those kids with the sharpened screwdrivers. Perhaps the time has come to redefine our laws and customs to come in line with the reality of the streets and subways. Perhaps we need to amplify the doubt in the mugger's mind that he will come out of the mugging in one piece. We are all very, very tired of being victims and I think public opinion show's this. Goetz is no hero, but he is no criminal. He is a product of the failure of the fathers of this city to control the streets.