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From: ecl@ahuta.UUCP (e.leeper)
Newsgroups: net.books,net.women
Subject: Re: Pornography doesn't degrade women ...
Message-ID: <354@ahuta.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 11-Jan-85 10:33:35 EST
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Posted: Fri Jan 11 10:33:35 1985
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pmd@cbscc.UUCP (Paul Dubuc) says:
> I think the original assertion that porn does not degrade women
> was made by a man and I haven't seen any women disagree.  I would
> like to see a woman give an argument as to why porn isn't degrading
> to them (preferably from a woman who has examined some of the stuff
> at your local "adult" book store).  How many wives/girlfriends feel
> OK about their husbands/boyfriends reading this stuff?

I don't think pornography degrades women and I can give you two
unrelated reasons (one relatively trivial, the other more serious) why not:

	1) Network TV doesn't degrade the actors (of either gender)--they
	know what people want and make money by giving it to them.  If
	anyone is degraded, it's the viewer.

	2) Most pornography/erotica (and I have not yet seen any distinction
	between the two other than "Erotica is what I like; pornography is
	what I don't like") is degrading only to the extent that you think
	most sex is degrading.  (See D. Skran's posting on this.)

And I *have* examined this stuff, both books and films (videotapes, actually).
I have no objection to any adult that I know (including my husband)
reading/seeing this stuff (as long as I get to read/see it also).  (Only half
:-) ).

Further comments:

>                                      *Who* the woman is doesn't matter,
> what she looks like does.

What the woman looks like is immaterial--I find many porn actresses to be less
than beautiful.  Considerably less.

> It is also my opinion that porn exploits a male weakness.  A
> capacity for sexual pleasure is certainly nothing to be ashamed
> of, but I think porn takes advantage of the male sex drive--exacting
> a price for the service to boot.

This is a truly sexist comment; Paul speaks as though women have no sex drives
or capacity for sexual pleasure (else it would be a "human weakness," not a
"male weakness").

>          It certianly seems to me that the regular viewing of the
> nude bodies of women is highly suggestive of the idea that women
> generally desire sex.  The expression on the woman's face (if her
> face is shown at all) is always inviting.  There isn't any  hint
> that the woman minds men taking in her sexually sugesstive pose.
> You get the idea that if the woman in the picture were acually present
> she would love to jump in bed with you.

Well, women *do* desire sex.  We can argue about just what is meant by
"generally," but it certainly sounds as though Paul is unaware of the fact
that women enjoy sex.

John Houseman is always ready to pontificate in his roles--that's part of the
role.  That's why they're called "actors."  The role here calls for sex appeal.
You can't fault the actor for playing the part called for.

> Defenses for porn are often couched in the rhetoric of free speech
> and press.  But I think porn makes a mockery of these freedoms.
> All too often it is my suspicion that such rhetoric is used as a
> justification by men for their own use of the stuff.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech.  I find Nazi propaganda more offensive
(by several orders of magnitude) and demonstrably more harmful in the long run
than pornography, but I would not ban Nazi propaganda.

>                                                               What
> real contribution to our basic liberties is made by porn?  We have
> an essentially free press without it.

The same could be said for Nazi propaganda.  My support of its right to be
heard still stands.

But have you ever thought that porn might be trying to tell you that sex is
enjoyable?  Maybe that's what so many anti-porn advocates are afraid of.

					Evelyn C. Leeper
					...{ihnp4, houxm, hocsj}!ahuta!ecl