Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site mhuxt.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!js2j From: js2j@mhuxt.UUCP (sonntag) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Military conscription/slavery Message-ID: <519@mhuxt.UUCP> Date: Tue, 15-Jan-85 10:06:55 EST Article-I.D.: mhuxt.519 Posted: Tue Jan 15 10:06:55 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 16-Jan-85 05:18:16 EST References: <303@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill Lines: 32 Richard Carnes writes: > I don't consider conscription to be slavery. Neither did Locke . . . > . . . Neither did Abraham Lincoln when he > . . . Neither does anyone else, as far as I know, except libertarians. The > state of Israel has had conscription during its entire existence. I read > the papers but I have not noticed any great outcry from Israelis against > this form of "slavery", or any great agitation for an all-volunteer force. > How do libertarians explain this rather striking fact? Well, gosh, I guess we must be wrong! People disagree with us. Why should we even attempt to argue the point? (leaving sarcasm mode.) How is slavery defined? Haven't got a Webster's handy, but how about: "Use (or threat of use) of force to cause an individual to act in a manner contrary to their free will for an extended period of time." What's that I hear you shouting? You don't like my definition? Well, you are hereby challenged to provide a definition of slavery which excludes conscription. Anyway, with the above definition of slavery, it seems clear that conscription is one form of slavery. While we're on the subject, how do people feel about these questions? a.) Is a person morally responsible for actions which they were ordered to do? b.) If your answer was yes, can you justify in any way taking an oath which states that you will follow the orders of commanding officers? c.) If your answer was no, do you think that someone who participates in a massacre while just 'following orders' is innocent? How is being in the services involuntarily different from being enslaved? Well, you get paid. . . . . That was all I could think of. Doesn't seem like much of a 'real' difference to me. -- Jeff Sonntag ihnp4!mhuxt!js2j "Aye, Captain, and at warp 11 we're going nowhere mighty fast!"