Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84; site mhuxm.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!mhuxn!mhuxm!abeles From: abeles@mhuxm.UUCP (abeles) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Mareet Iyeen Message-ID: <299@mhuxm.UUCP> Date: Tue, 8-Jan-85 18:01:58 EST Article-I.D.: mhuxm.299 Posted: Tue Jan 8 18:01:58 1985 Date-Received: Wed, 9-Jan-85 05:28:39 EST References: <838@eisx.UUCP> <44500005@uiucdcs.UUCP> Organization: Bell Communications Research, Murray Hill, NJ Lines: 37 (quote at end) I don't agree with your reading of those dictionaries. The usage of the word "by" in English is incorrect in the sentence "I ate by the Cohens last Shabbos." The use described in the dictionary entries you dredged up is akin to "I stopped by the Cohens last Shabbos," which is correct English. The authorities writing in those dictionaries did not envision your interpretation, in my estimation. My American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, New College Ed., doesn't list anything like what you found in those other dictionaries. While they are authoritative, the American Heritage Dictionary is an all-new dictionary of this century (1969) unlike any other popular dictionary, in my understanding. Take a look at one and read the Introduction. I think your usage was indeed an obsolete one which, in any case, would never have admitted the usage which I deemed incorrect. --J. Abeles > Abeles writes: > > ...such words as "bei" are incorrectly used, viz., "I stayed by > the Cohens last Shabbos." In this example, the speaker may not > realize that the German or Yiddish preposition "bei" is not the > same word as the English preposition "by." (There is no way that > the use of "by" is correct in this example) > > It is sad for me to note that, in his diatribe against poor English, Abeles > is somewhat misguided when it comes to the word "by." Webster's Unabridged > accepts the meaning "at the house of." Specifically, the third edition > says it is dialect while the first and second editions say it is obsolete. > The Oxford English Dictionary accepts the meaning, also calling it > obsolete. The OED and the second and third editions of Webster's Unabridged > include a quotation from Shakespeare in which the word "by" is used in > precisely this way. Although it may sound strange to Abeles' ears, it is > correct, if archaic.