Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site tymix.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!houxm!whuxlm!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!oliveb!tymix!figmo From: figmo@tymix.UUCP (Lynn Gold) Newsgroups: net.college Subject: Re: Where have all the hackers gone? Message-ID: <342@tymix.UUCP> Date: Mon, 31-Dec-84 17:14:38 EST Article-I.D.: tymix.342 Posted: Mon Dec 31 17:14:38 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 3-Jan-85 03:50:44 EST References: <3138@utah-cs.UUCP> <676@clyde.UUCP>, <78@uwvax.UUCP> <679@clyde.UUCP> Organization: Tymnet Inc., Cupertino CA Lines: 48 > > ... > > While it is true that they are often unruly and unorthodox in their > > programming, that stems from their brilliance (sometimes) and their > > mastery of their machines. > > For grunge-work programming, no, I would not hire a 'hacker' > > either, which is porbably good since they don't want that kind of work. > > I would hire yesterday's 'hackers' as today's innovators. > > I dispute the word 'brilliance' even if it carries a disclaimer ('sometimes'). > > Have you ever tried to maintain or understand some of these 'innovative' > programs? > -- > Jon M. Allingham (201)386-3466 AT&T Bell Laboratories-WH > > "Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here!" As an alumna of Columbia's Hackers' Club, I have a few things to comment on: 1. Everyone who was in the Hackers' Club -- no exceptions -- has done well in the computing field. 2. Sometimes what one is assigned to do for homework has less relevance than what one does on one's own. We had one hacker who was more interested in writing a version of PACMAN than writing payroll programs. When he graduated he was hired by a well-known manufacturer of computer games. As far as I know, he has YET to be asked to write a payroll program. 3. Why school, you may ask? School polishes up a hacker's skills. Hacking alone does not teach structured programming. Even the student who would rather do stuff on their own quickly sees the benefits of some of the tech- niques taught in classes and in their textbooks. A hacker needs good ways to express their programming ideas. 4. With regards to maintainability, I've seen clearly-written code done by many hackers. I've also seen "happy" code (as in "Why should I comment this? It's clear to ME, so it doesn't need any!") and spaghetti code (GOTOs everywhere humanely possible -- and THEN some) written by people who got good grades. Perhaps the answer to the problem lies in self-paced learning and in allowing students to make choices as to what kinds of projects interest them (and teach the skills the assignments are intended to teach). --Lynn Gold Tymnet, Inc.