Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ttidcc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!genrad!teddy!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (Jerry Hollombe) Newsgroups: net.suicide Subject: RE: Re: Is suicide an attempt of murder? Message-ID: <188@ttidcc.UUCP> Date: Wed, 16-Jan-85 17:35:29 EST Article-I.D.: ttidcc.188 Posted: Wed Jan 16 17:35:29 1985 Date-Received: Sun, 20-Jan-85 05:36:03 EST Organization: TTI, Santa Monica, CA. Lines: 52 >From: mjc@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA (Monica Cellio) >Subject: Re: Is suicide an attempt of murder? >Message-ID: <239@cmu-cs-cad.ARPA> > > Of course, on a wider scale a would-be suicide loses anyway, >since it is trivial to get that person locked up for a long, long time. > >I've known quite a few people who have attempted to kill themselves (all in >the U.S.), and none of them was ever prosecuted. On the other hand, many >were committed, which is probably worse. At least prison guards can't say, >"I think we'll keep you here a while longer." Doctors can, and it takes the >cooperation of someone on the outside to beat the system. (Ever try to call >the ACLU from inside a mental hospital?) While things are not on the order >of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest", they aren't real good and there is >plenty of room for improvement in the system. It is still a form of >punishment much more than it is a form of rehabilitation, though. While I can't speak for the rest of the country, the situation in California is quite different. One of our biggest problems when I worked at the LASPC was how to get a suicidal person IN to a mental hospital. Here, IF you can demonstrate a person is a clear and present danger to themselves (or others) you can PROBABLY get them put on a 72 hour hold. (That's three working days -- worst case could be 7 actual days over Thanksgiving week). Beyond that the hospital staff has to go to court and demonstrate that the person is still a danger in order to keep them another two weeks. The patient must be represented by counsel at this hearing and be advised of their rights. After those two weeks, and every three months thereafter the hospital has to go to court AGAIN to keep the patient another three months. Every time, the patient must be represented by counsel and advised of their rights. Bedspace and funding being very tight, hospitals aren't willing to go to this kind of trouble in most cases. As for calling the ACLU, most wards have pay-phones accessible to the patients. I know of at least one case where a woman convinced the local Sherriff's Department and Fire Department paramedics to come and rescue her while she was an in-patient at one of the local hospitals (lots of red faces over that one). She used to call the LASPC from there all the time. I don't know how this situation compares to other places in the country, but at least things aren't always as bad as the movies make them out to be. -- ============================================================================== ... sitting in a pile of junk on the runway, wondering what happened ... The Polymath (Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp TTI If thy CRT offend thee, pluck 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. it out and cast it from thee. Santa Monica, California 90405 (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {vortex,philabs}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe