Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-k Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxj!houxm!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:Pucc-I:Pucc-K:afo From: afo@pucc-k (Flidais) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Replies to Jeff Sargent Message-ID: <810@pucc-k> Date: Wed, 9-Jan-85 14:32:29 EST Article-I.D.: pucc-k.810 Posted: Wed Jan 9 14:32:29 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 12-Jan-85 00:11:05 EST Organization: Necromancers Local #1032 Lines: 162 {Note: these are replies to several articles Jeff has posted in the last few days} >>2. This is exactly the kind of perfectionistic attitude that is killing me >>-- the idea that any lack of knowledge or understanding is a sin deserving >>painful punishment. Jeff, do you think that people are *born* with perfect knowledge and understanding of people, anymore than someone is born with the perfect understanding of cdc mace? Understanding people is a skill that has to be learned, just as any other skill has to be learned. You can't begin to learn about people (or a person) by cringing in a corner, you have to get out and interact. >>Yes. I note now that there are several women I'm attracted to, distributed >>from the longitude of New York to that of North Dakota. In almost all cases, >>I find that each woman symbolizes some character quality wherein I am >>deficient. (I think I wrote something like this in an earlier article.) >>Thus my attraction is not legitimate. Attraction is complementary, as well as contiguous. People look for aspects that they like in a person, besides aspects they would like to have. That's normal-- and legitimate. Once you get away from the symbolization of these women, you might find that they may see some qualities in you, also. >>Again, wanting to get total forgiveness & healing from another human being >>is cheating. Thus, if I feel that way, I have no right to act on my >>attraction to her (even if I do like her qualities), because I will be >>asking from her something that she cannot give. Well, Jeff, relationships do have their healing aspects. A good SO can go a long way in soothing those hurts and wounds. But you have to be ready to do some healing yourself. We *all* have out little nicks and scrapes. >>Perhaps. But I cannot go to a woman for the purpose of healing. (Plus, see >>my earlier article [a response to Chuq] in which my inability to trust a >>woman that closely is discussed.) Jeff, if I decided to make a blanket assumption on men based on some of the bozos I've had the poor fortune to have known, I wouldn't be where I am today. Which is very, very happy. I don't think that anyone can go through life without being massively stomped on at least once in their life. In fact, I would be wary of someone who hadn't (too good of a chance he/she had done all the stomping). >>I'm sorry, but while I will tell all sorts of things to people (obviously), >>I cannot dare to actually, explicitly, give another person the amount of >>power over me that an SO would have. Giving a person that much power is >>the surest way to get yourself hurt. The worst thing is that the hurt may >>not come for many years down the line, as my parents found, as the 40/20 >>club members have found. Then again, you may find someone to spend the rest of your life with. Believe it or not, some people do actually spend their years with someone special. Did you parents *never* love each other? >>No, I'm the one who makes the package; it's not His fault. That means you can re-make it; any way you choose. Don't sit around waiting for someone or something to remake you--do it yourself. Everyone starts out with the basic materials, the finished products are just different. >>But will I like them? Or, more to the point, will I be attracted >>to them? I'm sorry, but I'm getting tired of ending up just friends >>with the women I'm really attracted to; on the other hand, being more >>than that involves such a level of trust and self-giving that it is >>a frightening prospect too. (It is frightening to put yourself in the >>power of someone who is superior to you in some way; I realize that this >>works the other way, too, that no woman worth her salt would want to put >>up with my desire to be superior & in control in every way, but it's >>still scary to me to think of being SO-close to someone who has any >>superiority over me at all.) There doesn't seem to be any way at all in >>this life to be safe and happy. Now, wait a minute, you're saying two different things here. First you wonder what to do if you're *not* attracted to them. Well, you let them know, as nicely as you can. The 'just friends' aspect works both ways. Then you say you don't want anymore of this 'just friends' with women, but you don't want to give yourself over for a deeper relationship. A lot of this seems to go back to you distrust of people, women in particular. Jeff, first you don't want a woman who might control you or be superior to you in some way, but you don't want a woman who would let you control her; in fact, you make it sound as if there is something intrinsically wrong with a woman who would let you control her. Could you possibly see a woman as your equal, or would you constantly be looking for a way for her to be superior so you would have an excuse not to be with her? >>But one of the things that I can't accept about myself is the fact that I >>want others to like/accept me -- and saying the above implies that indeed >>I should *not* want others to like me, that I ought to be able to find >>everything I need within myself (and/or from God). But I cannot stop >>wanting human friends, warmth, love; and the idea of self-acceptance being >>something you have to give yourself suggests that wanting any of this good >>stuff from anyone else is utterly illegal. No, it isn't Jeff. Wanting to be liked and accepted is perfectly reasonable. Check out Maslow's hierarchy or Aldefer's erg theories. They both include the concept of social acceptance and personal acceptance (in fact Maslow's theory implies that you have to have social acceptance before you can attain self-acceptance). >>I know perfectly well that I have lots of good POTENTIAL. The thing I feel so >>guilty about is that I don't use it. I think this is because it is still >>mostly potential, and thus I'll have a very hard time doing things perfectly >>-- and failure and imperfection are anathema to me. I don't know what will >>have to happen to change this. (Some of my Christian friends will say >>"Trust God", "Leave the results up to Him", etc. What does that mean, >>PRACTICALLY? How does one do this? Remember, this goes back to my earlier >>paragraph -- how can I trust One who is superior to me, not in some way, but >>in every way?) Check the paragraphs above Jeff.... >>Yeah, but I should have known it earlier. I've read nifty books like >>"Why Am I Afraid to Tell You Who I Am?", wherein non-judgmental honesty >>is advocated, and the erroneousness of withholding the truth because you >>are afraid of rejecting/being rejected by someone is pointed out; and I >>*still* blew it. Jeff, you can read thousands of books on a subject, and still not be any good at the subject until you actually go out and practice it. >>"Screw up your courage! You've screwed up everything else." (I'm tempted >>to put that in my .signature line.) >>The problem now has shifted so that it's not my image of myself that is >>uncool, but how I think God sees me. This not being net.religion[.christian], >>I won't go into more details. Well, now you've gone from something you can do something about to something you can't. If you feel that your God is omnipotent and superior to you in every way, then there is nothing you can do but sit in a corner and cringe and bemoan your fate. That's a cop-out, and you know it. You're trying to give yourself a handy excuse to use whenever you're afraid to try something. Do you really think the world is done up in black-and-white, with people either being holy of the holies, or scum of the earth? Besides, Jeff, you're really beginning to convince me that you really *don't* like women. You may be attracted to them physically, but you really don't like them. You wouldn't want one to be better than you in a relationship, in your mind, which would mean something; and you don't want to trust a woman, or be in a situation where you might have to trust or depend on a woman. Why then, would you want a relationship with one? -- Laurie Sefton {harpo,ihnp4,allegra,decvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h!afo Some people prefer top down programming; others prefer bottom-up: Me? I prefer slash and burn...