Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site bunker.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!bellcore!decvax!ittvax!bunker!garys
From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: More on justice
Message-ID: <671@bunker.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 16-Jan-85 14:00:38 EST
Article-I.D.: bunker.671
Posted: Wed Jan 16 14:00:38 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 18-Jan-85 02:14:45 EST
References: <283@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP> <1175@ut-ngp.UUCP>
Organization: Bunker Ramo, Trumbull Ct
Lines: 83

> [Disclaimer: I am not a member of the Libertarian party;
> nor may any statements I make be construed to represent
> the viewpoints of *anyone* besides myself.]
> 
> >From: carnes@gargoyle.UChicago.UUCP (Richard Carnes)
> >
> >From a recent posting by a libertarian:
> >
> >> Taxation is theft....

> >Please give us a break from this type of rhetoric.

Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary:

Tax (vt): 1. To assess ordetermine judicially the amount of
(costs in a court action).  2.  To levy a tax on.  3. (obs)
To enter (a name) in a list.  4. Charge, accuse, censure.
5: To make onerous and rigorous demands upon.

Tax (n): 1a. A charge usually of money imposed by authority
upon persons or property for public purposes.  1b.  a sum
levied on members of an organization to defray expenses.
2.  A heavy demand.

[key phrase is "by authority"]

Taxation (n): 1.  The action of taxing; esp. the imposition
of taxes.  2. revenue obtained from taxes.  3. the amount
assessed as a tax.

Theft (n): 1a. The act of stealing; specif, the felonious taking
and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the
rightful owner of it. 1b. an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement
or burglary) of property.  2 (obs) something stolen.  3 a stolen
base in baseball.

I think that "depriving the rightful owner" is synonomous with
"without authority."

Therefore, taxation is not theft; the question remains, however,
is what the government does taxation or theft?  I.e., does the
government have the authority to levy taxes?  (Answers of the
form, "no, because taxation IS theft" are question-begging.)
Does the government have any responsibilities which require
funding to discharge?  Or, are all of the responsibilities of
the government contingent on someone's willingness and ability
to finance it?

> there is a very simple reason why taxation is
> immoral: it is the enforced payment of a non-contractual pseudo-
> obligation.  The key word is *non-contractual*.  Taxpayers never
> (at least in this country) entered into an agreement with the
> government whereby the government would provide each of them with
> well-defined services for well-defined costs.  (And even if one
> set of taxpayers did enter into such an agreement, that would be
> ethically binding neither on their descenants nor on their
> contemporaries.)

Then, neither should the government's monopoly on the use of
force be binding on those same descendants.

> > And thereby hangs another tale....

...which I agree is an absurd scenario.

> > he
> >engages the top legal talents of Gouge & Swindle to get him off the hook.
> 
> As I understand libertarian principles, such as society would not
> even have lawyers -- the legal system would not be sufficiently
> complex to require such specialists to help people defend their
> rights.

Oh come now.  No lawyers?  HA!  I keep hearing libertarians
say that in the case of a dispute, one can always sue.  Who's
going to handle these suits?

> You wish to prevent something which does not exist?

Of course.  If it already exists, it's too late to prevent it.

Gary Samuelson
ittvax!bunker!garys