Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site rochester.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!seismo!rochester!sher From: sher@rochester.UUCP (David Sher) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: ... ( Israel ) and Jewish pride Message-ID: <4975@rochester.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Dec-84 19:25:47 EST Article-I.D.: rocheste.4975 Posted: Mon Dec 24 19:25:47 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 27-Dec-84 03:07:03 EST References: <250@mhuxi.UUCP> <42700012@csd2.UUCP> <272@moscom.UUCP> Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept. Lines: 65 Long quote at end of article. In the quote their is a claim that the pre-Israel Jews took no pride in being Jewish. Ignoring what this exchange was originally about, I remember something of my Jewish history and most of the stories my grandmother told me about growing up Jewish in NYC in the depression. At no time did my grandmother ever mention lacking pride in being Jewish or concealing the fact even when they were discriminated against. I don't know what it was really like back then I wasn't there. There have always been Jews who took no pride in being Jewish there still are. There always have been Jews who took great (perhaps too great) pride in being Jewish, there still are. Why do you believe that the situation before 1942 regarding this fact is significantly different than today. Oh yes as to why we didn't exercize our political clout before 1942, before one exercizes political clout one must acquire some. The market for political clout generally takes cash not credit (or votes). The Jewish community had to develop a strong economic base before significant amounts of energy could be committed to politics. -David Sher > > Quote at the end of the article. > > > There was a spiritual victory after the 1948 war, a victory that can be seen > daily on this net. > > Talk to your parents/grandparents about what it was like to live in the > pre-Israel world. How the Jew had no pride in being Jewish and how it > was a subject we tried to hide. I will not go into the ruses that were used > to hide one's identity, but taking off the holidays or early for Shabbat > just wasn't done. Wearing a magen david or a mezuzah just wasn't done. > Putting up menorahs in public places just wasn't done. Excersing > political clout for the good of the community wasn't done. Objecting > to Christmas carols being sung in public school or the creche in the > public park wasn't done. We didn't want to anger the goyim. > > Today, whether we observe all the mitzvot or not we have a pride in > being Jewish that was missing before Israel. There is a spirituall reawakening > of what was a downtrodden people. We are searching for the right paths > out of the quagmire that was pre-1948, using many different paths. Most > don't coincide with yours, but they are paths, and that is the spiritual > victory. > David Esan > > > > > The big difference between 1948 and CHANUKA is seen from theactions > > taken after the victory. In the miracle of CHANUKA the jews went to > > the Bais Hamikdash and purified it to serve HASHEM. They had a physical > > miracle (the winning of the war) and a spiritial miracle (the menora > > lit for 8 days). However unfortunately in 1948 after the miracles > > instead of seeking to serve HASHEM the 'state' was created as a > > 'democracy' with chilul shabbat,abortions,autopsies etc.... > > > > Although we thank HASHEM for giving us back our land we can not > > compare this to the days of CHANUKA > > Asher Schechter > > *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE *** *** REPLACE THIS LINE WITH YOUR MESSAGE ***