Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site utcsrgv.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcsrgv!west From: west@utcsrgv.UUCP (Thomas L. West) Newsgroups: net.misc Subject: Re: Mensa and elitism Message-ID: <615@utcsrgv.UUCP> Date: Fri, 28-Dec-84 04:32:46 EST Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.615 Posted: Fri Dec 28 04:32:46 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 28-Dec-84 05:57:01 EST References: <166@ttidcc.UUCP> <722@ames.UUCP> Reply-To: west@utcsrgv.UUCP (Thomas L. West) Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto Lines: 33 Summary: barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) writes: > From ttidcc!hollombe (Jerry Hollombe): >> As usual, the point has been raised that Mensa is an elitist organization. >> This is true. It is also true of highschool football teams, symphony >> orchestras, and the company you probably work for (do you seriously think >> they hire anyone who walks in the door?). Any organization which sets a >> standard for membership is an elitist organization. I don't hear anyone >> condemning the American Bar Association for being elitist (you have to pass >> a bar exam to join). I've never been able to pass a calculus course. Is >> the American Mathematical Society to be criticized for denying me >> membership? > > The other organizations you mention could be called elitist, >but their standards for membership are based on *accomplishment*, not >innate ability. What? I'd certainly claim that ability at math, music, languages or just about anything is an innate ability. One can accomplish more with determination and hard work, but the basic innate ability is STILL required. (The same is probably true for IQ tests (I agree with the original poster on that IQ tests don't measure a whole lot besides the ability to take IQ tests. Besides, what *is* IQ? According to what I've learned, measurement of intelligence is measured on about 9 different (and mostly independent axes) (actually most claim MANY more than 9). So how can a single figure do for a variable with probably 50 indices?)) However claiming that being a mathematician is just plain work without a lot of built in ability is, in my opinion, wrong. I know I couldn't be a mathematician in a million years no matter HOW much effort went into it. Mensa only differs in that innate ability alone can get you in (again, in theory). The other organizations are even MORE elitist. They require innate ability AND accomplishment. Tom West { allegra cornell decvax ihnp4 linus utzoo }!utcsrgv!west