Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830713); site ubu.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!seismo!mcvax!ukc!qtlon!flame!ubu!rjc From: rjc@ubu.UUCP (Richard Caley) Newsgroups: net.flame,net.politics,net.tv,net.nlang.celts Subject: Re: Re: Propaganda/Disinformation Story to be Aired by NBC-TV Message-ID: <354@ubu.UUCP> Date: Mon, 10-Dec-84 04:47:30 EST Article-I.D.: ubu.354 Posted: Mon Dec 10 04:47:30 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 16-Dec-84 05:23:58 EST References: <307@bonnie.UUCP> <1087@pyuxa.UUCP> <1168@ihuxm.UUCP> Organization: Computer Science, Warwick University, UK Lines: 86 Xref: watmath net.flame:7239 net.politics:6337 net.tv:2229 net.nlang.celts:177 > From: sofo@ihuxm.UUCP (Terry Bermes) > Subject: Re: Re: Propaganda/Disinformation Story to be Aired by NBC-TV > > No one considered the French resistance underground to be a group of > terrorists as they tried to expel an unwanted occupancy. Maybe that was because they didn't bomb/shoot at french civilians (as a rule) and because they were,in effect,the army of the government in exile rather than a group of amoral political activists with no scruples about how they further their cause. > If England refused to leave Northern Ireland, then the Irish have a > right to take their war (and it is a war) to England's > home front. ... and if the english say they will leave Ireland then would you support the unionist extemists as *they* blow up civilians in the republic of Ireland? > Agreed it is a minority of the Northern Irish who want to be independent of > England, but it was also a minority of American colonists who also wanted > their independence. There is a difference between a majority who don't actively want independence and a majority who actively find the idea of suddenly becomeing part of a foreign country disturbing (even abhorrent). > Is the IRA spreading hatred? Or are they attempting to get the > self-determination that we Americans take for granted. And what about the self determination of the majority - the republic is fine for catholics but some of it's laws (e.g on contraception) would be oppressive to people who don't see them as moral necessities. > It is hatred that made a group like the IRA necessary. The IRA is not necessary - many (most?) sane campagners for a united Ireland would prefer it not to exist since the violence only hardens the (possably biased) opinions of the protestants in the north that the republic is *not* somewhere they would like to find themselves liveing. > You can't deny rights to a portion of the population and then expect > them to go along with it. Northern Irish Catholics must be granted the > same rights as Protestants. Only then will this war cease. That this > situation has arisen at all is indeed tragic. > > Terry Bermes a) they have exactly the same rights as any other citizen of the united kingdom . b) Tragic yes,but uniteing Ireland would not change the IRA - they would just find annother "cause" and carry on.The situation would be much less tragic if those in other countries (esp. America) who wish to advance the cause of a united Ireland gave their money to campagners who would try to convince those on the other side of the argument rather than shoot them. Now my opinion......... I have none! I lack the information to say if a united Ireland would be a good thing for all concerned (rather than just aesthetically pleasing),but I would say that the solution to the problem lies with bringing the protestants and catholics closer together so they see that the other side are just people and not some form of monster.When this is done any solution would just be an administerative nicety - either the protestants could see the republic as just a different set of beurocrats to collect the income tax,or the catholics could see rule from westminster a no different from Dublin. NOTICE: I take no responcibility for any mangleings of the English language found in the above - can someone write a program for translation from 'Richard-ish' into English? :-) . -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the beginning was a flame ...... " Paul Kantner. .......... mcvax!ukc!flame!ubu!rjc [ Any opinions in the above crawled in while I wasn't looking ]