Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site mit-eddie.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!barry From: barry@mit-eddie.UUCP (Mikki Barry) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: (public anger .. attacks/harrassment) Self Defense (long) Message-ID: <3366@mit-eddie.UUCP> Date: Fri, 28-Dec-84 19:24:04 EST Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.3366 Posted: Fri Dec 28 19:24:04 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Dec-84 23:02:38 EST References: <343@stcvax.UUCP> Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA Lines: 122 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Regarding Self Defense Classes.... I cannot help but disagree intensely!!! >BOO, HIIISSSSSS. NO, this is a well-meaning but very *bad* suggestion. >Self-defense classes can be grossly simplified to 2 forms: formal martial >arts classes and rape-defense classes. Neither of these are a good idea. > 1. Formal martial arts classes require alot of practice and much > dedication. You probably shouldn't/couldn't feel confident with > you ability to defend yourself for at least six months to a year > of intense training. Sure they can teach you a trick or two in > the first couple of weeks but the willingness to actually do it > and the presence of mind required to not f**k it up take *MUCH* > longer. > 2. Many formal martial arts classes will leave you totally unprepared > to deal with an actual combat situation. I speak from experience. I do not know where your experience lies, but mine is COMPLETELY different! As an instructor in full contact karate, I can tell you that my students are not at all unprepared to deal with combat situations. In fact, they train almost exclusively in how to deal with these actual situations. > I was lucky enough to have trained in an "old world" okinawian > school when I first started the martial arts. They knew how to > prepare one for actual combat! Sparring was *real* in that > school! You knew what it was like to give a real punch or kick > and what it was like to receive one and still continue fighting. > (My broken arm and countless bruises lay testiment to the realness > of the sparring!). Since then I have been in and out of about > 6 or 7 other schools and I know for a fact that a very small > percent of these people could ever actually defend themselves > against anything more threatening than a 4 year old kid with a > butter knife. Then, I sincerely believe that you attended the wrong schools. Mine certainly deals in *real* sparring, for men, as well as for women! > At one school they believed in "no contact" sparring. There was > a woman there that was trying to "learn how to defend herself" > and when she sparred she had her hands at her side and she lead > with her jaw. And this woman was almost a black belt!!!!!! Then this woman was obviously a very poor black belt. She wouldn't have made it to yellow belt in my school. I sincerely hope that you are not drawing the conclusion that women cannot benefit from a real self defense class, simply because you've seen bad ones. Granted, there are many BAD storefront outfits that brag you will be *safe* if you sign up with then, but do not state that self defense in general is useless for women. > 3. Rape classes aren't workable for reason #2 also but in addition > they have the tendancy to be inappropriately *ruthless*. They > take the attitude that the only way that a woman can defend > herself is by maiming or killing her attacker!!! They think > nothing of teaching ineffably dangerous techniques to be used > as a first defense without qualifying who they teach it to or > providing a moral paradigm. This is *HORRIBLY* immoral and > irresponsible!!!! In prior days such teachers would have been > hunted out and discipled or killed by more "responsible" masters. This is blatently untrue. In the "old days" such teachers would have been called Ninja. Retribution was swift in those days. Granted, women were thought of as property, however once the male's property right was violated, the violator was hunted down and systematicaly destroyed. Cruel? More cruel than rape? By the way, something I really don't understand in your note is your seeming paradox concerning martial arts classes. 1. You say that long length, in-depth classes are no good, because they really don't teach you anything useful, BUT 2. Short range classes are better, but inhumane because the rapist may be maimed or killed. As one who has taught both kinds, I am confused. Both my classes seemed to be effective for those who had to use them. If it came down to a choice between getting raped, and hurting the poor little rapist, I, and I'm sure many other women would choose hurting the rapist. I see it as quite the deterrent. If a rapist's main thrill is hurting someone weaker than it is, and intimidating someone at the same time, seems to me that if the victim kicked him in the knee (which is preferable to the usually chosen area, since if you dislocate his knee, he can't chase you if you run away. It's also a much easier target area, and an easier kick is involved), he may think twice next time. Sure, he may protect his knee in his next attack (if there is one), but its kind of tough to rape someone while recovering from a dislocated knee. And, of course, there is more than one way to stop a rapist. BUT the victim's main concern should not be the possible harm done to the rapist when chosing technique to use against him. Of course, it is better to take a self-defense course that is ongoing. Many women would gladly choose to take two nights a week for a few years and put it to such good use. The confidence built (both physical and mental) is well worth the hours of work put in. However (and this is a big however), anyone that chooses the "quick and easy" approach should be damn sure that they know the technique they plan to use thouroughly, and WILL NOT CHICKEN OUT for fear of hurting the person whose major intention is hurting them! >It is perfectly obvious that a problem exists here but in the search for > defense against animals, please do not become as bad if not worse than they. Is it so bad to use the same kind of force being used on you in order to defend yourself? I think not! Especially if it saves you from a rape, or even worse, your death. -- >Chapter-11/Multiple-Mega-Layoff Survivor (for now...) >Jeffrey P. Snover - STC StorageTek (Disk Division) >uucp: { hao, ihnp4, decvax}!stcvax!jps > { allegra, amd70, ucbvax }!nbires!stcvax!jps >USnail: Storage Technology Corp - MD 3T / Louisville, CO / 80028 >DDD: (303) 673-6750 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mikki Barry Instructor American full-contact karate Official PKA, IKBA