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From: rohn@randvax.UUCP (Laurinda Rohn)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: (public anger .. attacks/harrassment) Self Defense
Message-ID: <2203@randvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 21-Dec-84 13:15:09 EST
Article-I.D.: randvax.2203
Posted: Fri Dec 21 13:15:09 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 24-Dec-84 03:02:20 EST
References: <343@stcvax.UUCP>
Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica
Lines: 89

> from Jeffrey P. Snover  -  STC StorageTek (Disk Division)

> BOO, HIIISSSSSS.  NO, this is a well-meaning but very *bad* suggestion.
> Self-defense classes can be grossly simplified to 2 forms: formal martial
> arts classes and rape-defense classes.  Neither of these are a good idea.
> 
> 	1. Formal martial arts classes require alot of practice and much
> 	   dedication.  You probably shouldn't/couldn't feel confident with
> 	   you ability to defend yourself for at least six months to a year
> 	   of intense training.  Sure they can teach you a trick or two in
> 	   the first couple of weeks but the willingness to actually do it
> 	   and the presence of mind required to not f**k it up take *MUCH*
> 	   longer.

I don't agree with this at all.  Yes, martial arts classes take dedication.
So what?  I happen to feel my life is worth protecting and am therefore
willing to dedicate some amount of time to learning to do so.  I took
karate for 6 months or so, and while I wouldn't consider sparring with a
black belt, I do feel confident that I could and would defend myself in
some situations.  Yes, they teach you a couple of tricks.  For instance,
how to get out of a stranglehold when someone grabs you by the throat from
the front or back.  I consider that a useful trick.  And while I may not
show the elegance in form that you have, I will be happy to show an attacker
the ground at close level even if my stance is not quite perfect.


> 	2. Many formal martial arts classes will leave you totally unprepared
> 	   to deal with an actual combat situation. I speak from experience.
> 	   I was lucky enough to have trained in an "old world" okinawian
> 	   school when I first started the martial arts.  They knew how to
> 	   prepare one for actual combat! Sparring was *real* in that 
> 	   school! You knew what it was like to give a real punch or kick
> 	   and what it was like to receive one and still continue fighting.  
> 	   (My broken arm and countless bruises lay testiment to the realness
> 	   of the sparring!). Since then I have been in and out of about
> 	   6 or 7 other schools and I know for a fact that a very small 
> 	   percent of these people could ever actually defend themselves
> 	   against anything more threatening than a 4 year old kid with a
> 	   butter knife. 
> 
> 	   At one school they believed in "no contact" sparring. There was
> 	   a woman there that was trying to "learn how to defend herself"
> 	   and when she sparred she had her hands at her side and she lead
> 	   with her jaw. And this woman was almost a black belt!!!!!!

I still think the classes are worthwhile.  More on that later.


> 	3. Rape classes aren't workable for reason #2 also but in addition
> 	   they have the tendancy to be inappropriately *ruthless*.  They
> 	   take the attitude that the only way that a woman can defend 
> 	   herself is by maiming or killing her attacker!!! They think 
> 	   nothing of teaching ineffably dangerous techniques to be used
> 	   as a first defense without qualifying who they teach it to or
> 	   providing a moral paradigm. This is *HORRIBLY* immoral and
> 	   irresponsible!!!!  In prior days such teachers would have been 
> 	   hunted out and discipled or killed by more "responsible" masters.

Please excuse my bloodthirstiness, but if I am being attacked, I will most
certainly do my best to stop my attacker.  If I must maim or kill him/her,
that's the way it goes.  My "moral paradigm" is protecting myself.  If, in
the process of doing so, I have to be "immoral and irresponsible", I will.
I think attacking someone is "immoral and irresponsible" also.


>It is perfectly obvious that a problem exists here but in the search for
>a defense against animals, please do not become as bad if not worse than they.

If I have to act like an animal to defend myself against an animal, dammit,
I'm going to do so!!!  What do you suggest?  That I simply shouldn't fight
my attacker because I'm so much better morrally than they are?  Wonderful.
I can die superior.  Excuse me if that isn't a great comfort to me.

I think self defense classes are a good idea.  If nothing else, they will
give a person some confidence.  I think that is probably the most useful
thing they give.  I just feel better knowing that I would at least have a
fighting chance.  It's stupid to fight someone with a gun if you're unarmed,
but other than that, I would definitely do what I felt appropriate to the
situation to defend myself.  I'm sorry if I'm an animal, but if I can be
a superior being or an animal that doesn't get raped and lives a little
longer, I'd choose the latter any time.



					Lauri
					rohn@rand-unix.ARPA
					..decvax!randvax!rohn

"I told you when I met you I was crazy..."