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Path: utzoo!watmath!saquigley
From: saquigley@watmath.UUCP (Sophie Quigley)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: rape and streetwalking
Message-ID: <10452@watmath.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 19-Dec-84 12:34:47 EST
Article-I.D.: watmath.10452
Posted: Wed Dec 19 12:34:47 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 20-Dec-84 00:41:10 EST
References: <221@decwrl.UUCP> <608@burl.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 62

> 
> The point I was trying to make is that it is not reasonable to expect people
> to go out of their way to avoid bothering others.  Each of us make it through
> life the best way we can.  If I spend my time trying to avoid hurting everybody
> elses feelings, I will be doing nothing else (and probably end up a nervous
> wreck -- ANYTHING I do could possibly hurt SOMEBODY's feelings (do I smile?
> how much?  If I don't smile will he/she think I'm pissed at them? and so on)).
> I try to avoid hurting other people's feelings, but I realize I can't always
> avoid it, and when that happens, tough.  Sorry, but tough.  With friends I
> am willing to go further out of my way than with people I don't know, but
> there are limits even there.  I am not on this world to be anyone's doormat
> (but then I don't expect anyone else to be mine).
> 
Of course it is not reasonable to expect other people to spend their life going
out of their way to avoid hurting others, but nobody ever claimed it was.  What
was suggested was that strong people be a little more careful not to scare
weaker people if it is not too inconvenient for them to do so.
Nobody ever asked you to be anybody else's doormat.  Why all this paranoia?

> Attempting to get others to conform to your idea of courtesy is futile at
> best (much flaming on the net has very little in the way of courtesy to
> recommend it -- at least as far as my definition of courtesy goes).  You

Not at all, politeness probably came out of people expressing to others the way
they would like to be treated.  Try as we might, it is tough to imagine how
other people feel (especially if they live in different realities, as men and
women do), so why not listen to or even (gasp!) ask them?  As a woman, I would
like you to know that I will appreciate it, if you cross the street to show that
you do not intend to harm me, if we are alone in a deserted street at night.
I am telling you this, not because I will call the police if you don't, or think
you are a jerk if you don't, but because I want you to know that if you do care
about all of this, this is the way I prefer you to act.  Judging from other
men's postings it is not such a bad idea to express this preference, as a lot of
people are under the misconception that other behaviour (such as smiling or
talking) is more appropriate when it actually isn't.

> get a little self-righteous anger out of it (as well as maybe an ulcer
> or two) but you really don't affect the situation.  It is much more effective
> to take what steps you can to directly affect your situation.  As an obvious
> first step to avoiding anything unpleasant, avoid situations which are
> conducive to such unpleasantness.  In the case of rape, don't walk through
> bad sections of town late at night (chances of getting robbed are quite a
> bit higher, too).  If you can learn some self-defence, great.  These are
> direct actions and require no one's judgement or activity but your own.
> Trying to change the world at large ain't gonna work, and is likely to
> leave you rather bitter towards the world in general.  The world isn't
> mean or nasty, just indifferent.
> 
Why bother being organised in a "society" then, if we cannot expect it to better
the lot of the people in it?
Not trying to change the world at large and just accepting your miseries is
certainly not likely to make you less bitter towards the world; my suspicions
are that if anything, it will make you MORE bitter.
The world might be indifferent, but there certainly are a lot of mean and nasty
people in it.  You might be lucky not to have encountered too many, but other
people are not so lucky.

> 
> 		geoff sherwood

Sophie Quigley
...!{clyde,ihnp4,decvax}!watmath!saquigley