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From: west@utcsrgv.UUCP (Thomas L. West)
Newsgroups: net.misc
Subject: Re: Mensa and elitism
Message-ID: <615@utcsrgv.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 28-Dec-84 04:32:46 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsrgv.615
Posted: Fri Dec 28 04:32:46 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 28-Dec-84 05:57:01 EST
References: <166@ttidcc.UUCP> <722@ames.UUCP>
Reply-To: west@utcsrgv.UUCP (Thomas L. West)
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 33
Summary: 

barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) writes:
>	From ttidcc!hollombe (Jerry Hollombe):
>> As usual, the point has been raised that Mensa is an elitist  organization.
>> This  is  true.  It  is  also  true  of highschool football teams, symphony
>> orchestras, and the company you probably work for (do you  seriously  think
>> they  hire  anyone  who walks in the door?).  Any organization which sets a
>> standard for membership is an elitist organization.  I  don't  hear  anyone
>> condemning the American Bar Association for being elitist (you have to pass
>> a bar exam to join).  I've never been able to pass a  calculus  course.  Is
>> the   American  Mathematical  Society  to  be  criticized  for  denying  me
>> membership?
>  
>	The other organizations you mention could be called elitist,
>but their standards for membership are based on *accomplishment*, not
>innate ability.

  What?  I'd certainly claim that ability at math, music, languages or just
about anything is an innate ability.  One can accomplish more with determination
and hard work, but the basic innate ability is STILL required.  (The same is
probably true for IQ tests (I agree with the original poster on that IQ tests
don't measure a whole lot besides the ability to take IQ tests.  Besides, what
*is* IQ?  According to what I've learned, measurement of intelligence is
measured on about 9 different (and mostly independent axes) (actually most
claim MANY more than 9).  So how can a single figure do for a variable with
probably 50 indices?))
  However claiming that being a mathematician is just plain work without a lot
of built in ability is, in my opinion, wrong.  I know I couldn't be a 
mathematician in a million years no matter HOW much effort went into it.
   Mensa only differs in that innate ability alone can get you in (again, in
theory).  The other organizations are even MORE elitist.  They require innate
ability AND accomplishment.
Tom West
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