Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihnp4.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!tosca From: tosca@ihnp4.UUCP (lyn cole) Newsgroups: net.nlang Subject: Re: Death for we who deserve it Message-ID: <692@ihnp4.UUCP> Date: Mon, 17-Dec-84 18:29:27 EST Article-I.D.: ihnp4.692 Posted: Mon Dec 17 18:29:27 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 18-Dec-84 02:36:08 EST References: <275@ho95b.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 49 I had expected many people to jump on this one immediately. Since no one seems to have noticed (or cared about?) the real grammatical issue here, i'll jump in. Robert Neinast writes: >>... >>Let me rewrite the sentences with what I think are >>illustrative phrasal groupings: >> >>"Death for (we who deserve it) is one thing." >>In this case, the object of the preposition >>is a gerund phrase (so that "we" is correct as >>nominative case). The object of the preposition >>is specifically "we who deserve it" as a group, >>and death is intended only for that specific group. >> >>"Death for us (who deserve it) is one thing." >>In this case, we have a modifying phrase (the "us" >>is the object of the preposition, and therefore >>the objective case is correct). The "who deserves it" >>modifies "us", and is in some sense incidental. >> >>Two similar sentences are >>1) My father objects to me picking my nose, >>and >>2) My father objects to my picking my nose. First of all, in the original sentence quoted above, there is no gerund in sight. A gerund in English is a verb form, ending in "ing", used as a noun. There is no way to interpret the sentence such that "we" is correct; the explanation for the second form is the only correct one. The sentence can, however, mean something slightly different if it is written with commas: "Death for us, who deserve it, is one thing." In this case, we deserve it unconditionally; without the commas, death comes only to those of us who deserve it. In the two "similar sentences", besides not being similar, the first is incorrect. For that meaning, there should be a comma after "me": "My father objects to me, picking my nose." lyn cole (ihnp4!tosca) AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL