Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!mhuxn!mhuxj!mhuxr!ulysses!unc!mcnc!philabs!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Re: Celebrating Israel's Independence Message-ID: <1055@aecom.UUCP> Date: Wed, 26-Dec-84 14:32:18 EST Article-I.D.: aecom.1055 Posted: Wed Dec 26 14:32:18 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 28-Dec-84 06:03:14 EST References: <577@homxa.UUCP> Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 51 > > Israel's independence day, as I have argued in the past ( and it was this > > point that originally got me active on the net ), is not a holiday for a few > > reasons. > > > > 1. It does not celebrate the setting up of a Jewsih state but rather > > a state of Jews. My point is the state of Israel is not very Jewish at all. > > Okay, they give off for Jewish holidays, but the politicians and a percentage > > ( a large one at that ) don't give a damn about Judaism, as is evidenced > > by their lack of concern for the Sabbath. > > > > 2. The day itself was a cause for desecration of the sabbath, hardly > > a thing to celebrate ( the declaration of independence was signed on Shabbat). > > > > There are other, more political reasons, which I'd rather not discuss in > > detail. Let me just say that you should read the book Perfidy by Ben Hecht to > > get a good idea of what the politicians were interested in when they set up the > > state. > > Okay Eliyahu, here goes. I'm going to try to deal with this fro the > perspective of Jewish law. The question of whether or not an > occasion is to be celebrated as a holiday is determined by the > recitation (or not) of the Hallel. Let's examine the sources. Okay Baruch let's deal with this from the perspective of Jewish law. You brought many impressive sources, butt none which are halacha l'maaseh ( laws to be acted upon, laws which we actually follow ). Rambam ( Maimonides ) in his Yad Hachazaka ( Mishneh Torah ), Hilchot Purim v'Channuka, Chapter 3, Halacha 6 states: Not only is the recitation of Hallel on Channuka "midivrei sofrim" ( Rabbinical ordinance with a biblical basis ), but all days when we say hallel are midivrei sofrim. The Raavad points out that it is really a biblical ordinance. The Kesef Mishnah ( R Yosef Karo, author of the Shulchan Aruch ) points out that Rambam is of the opinion that we do not recite hallel when we are saved from a tragedy unless the rabbis with a based on verses from the Torah ordain that it should be said. He, the Kesef Mishnah says that Rambam is deciding against the G'marot you brought. In fact it is a debate in the G'mara as to how to institute the saying of hallel. The Shulchan Aruch also has no mention of sayig hallel when disasters are averted or when miracles occur. So, Baruch, it is not as clear cut as you make it sound. There is good reason not to say hallel. The g'mara ( I don't remember offahnd where it is, as usual ) says not such nice things about one who says hallel when it is not necessary. So I'll stick to not saying hallel. Eliyahu Teitz. >