Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site shark.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!tektronix!orca!shark!brianp
From: brianp@shark.UUCP (Brian Peterson)
Newsgroups: net.abortion
Subject: Re: Society has already decided what a legal human being is
Message-ID: <1192@shark.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 16-Dec-84 21:46:03 EST
Article-I.D.: shark.1192
Posted: Sun Dec 16 21:46:03 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 18-Dec-84 07:13:20 EST
References: <181@faron.UUCP>, <21@epsilon.UUCP>
Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR
Lines: 46

47   From: egs@epsilon.UUCP (Ed Sheppard)
47   In response to Paul Dubuc, Phillip Servita writes:
47   >                                                               As far as 
47   > I am concerned, THAT WHICH HAS NO CONSCIOUSNESS HAS NO RIGHTS. If object
47   > "x" has no consciousness, then object "x" has no rights. whether or not 
47   > object "x" WILL HAVE consciousness is of NO BEARING to the principle. 
47   
47   Ok Phil. Now if you'll only provide us with a test for consciousness. This
47   object can hardly wait.
47   						Ed Sheppard

Reality is not discrete.  Reality is not simple.
Conciousness is a very very abstract concept.  It also is not
a simple discrete thing.  Conciousness is not like dollars or acres
or numbers of votes or pounds of flesh.  A test that would say
"concious entity" or "not concious entity" is a silly thing to
want.

However, conciousness is a concept that just about everyone
can understand, though they might have different names or perceptions
of it, and their conception of it might be vague.
A thing can be very very real and also be very vague or unknown.

Conciousness is like that.  We haven't managed to define it
in precise measurable terms, so we can't provide a simple
algorithm for calculating whether or when a given entity
is concious.  However, just about everyone has the notion
of "more" and "less" conciousness.  Rocks, frogs, and trees
don't have much, if any.  Dogs, cats, gorillas, dolphins,
and other animals which act cleverly and seem to show
emotions have more conciousness.  We have the most.
(naturally :-)

We can apply the notion of conciousness to fetuses, also.
All that we have to do is to compare fetuses to other entities
which we consider to have various levels of conciousness.
We just have to look for the characteristics which make us think
of conciousness.  These are things like intelligence, and
emotions.  (The ability to feel pain and jerk away is neither.
Animals which we consider mindless beasts can feel pain.)

A test that you can program into your computer just won't do.
You will have to use your right brain.

Brian Peterson
...! {ucbvax, ihnp4, } !tektronix!shark!brianp