Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: Notesfiles $Revision: 1.6.2.17 $; site uokvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!uokvax!lmaher From: lmaher@uokvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Olson on VMS Manuals Message-ID: <2200084@uokvax.UUCP> Date: Wed, 26-Dec-84 23:20:00 EST Article-I.D.: uokvax.2200084 Posted: Wed Dec 26 23:20:00 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Dec-84 02:47:50 EST Lines: 57 Nf-ID: #N:uokvax:2200084:000:2809 Nf-From: uokvax!lmaher Dec 26 22:20:00 1984 > /***** uokvax:net.general / Glacier!reid / 8:22 pm Dec 12, 1984 */ > Digital Equipment Corporation publishes a newsletter entitled DECWORLD, > which is sent to all employees. The November 1984 (Volume 8/Number 5) issue > of DECWORLD contains a transcript of the State of the Company address given > by Ken Olsen (president of DEC) at the DEC annual meeting. The date of that > ... > > Here is an exact quote, not particularly taken out of context, from that > ... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out > of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up > doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming. > With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly > check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no > matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of > documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference > -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all > there. Myself and another programmer that are writing the online data acquisition and analysis system for Experiment 653 at Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory have a different attitude toward towards the "complete" VMS Manuals: The More you work with VMS The More you hate it. (There's a corollary, namely, "The more you work with Unix, the more you like it.") There seems to be a widespread idea that just because the VMS manuals are massive they're complete, and it's hard to imagine almost anything further than the truth. Almost any significant question or problem with VMS requires looking through 3 or 4 manuals (often more), at the end of which you still don't know the simple yes-or-no answer you wanted. I feel very strongly that VMS is not a system for software development, and Unix is. VMS has practically no tools beyond an editor (and Sort, if you want to call it that). VMS is better than UNIX at running Fortran, but as far as writing and testing code, give me UNIX every time. No doubt there are many people who disagree, and I don't particularly care to start up the semi-annual Unix vs. VMS flame again, but I just couldn't ignore the chance to flame about THOSE IDIOT MANUALS!!! There, I feel much better. Naturally, the Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Fermilab, Department of Energy, and U.S. Government neither condone, support, nor even understand the above opinion, which is solely mine and that of every rational being on the face of the earth. :-) --Carl (don't bother sending me flames, I'll be back in Batavia by the time they reach here, and Fermilab isn't on USENET - ALL VMS/RSX/RT11 systems.)