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From: mwm@ea.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: Obituary
Message-ID: <22400063@ea.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 13-Dec-84 13:43:00 EST
Article-I.D.: ea.22400063
Posted: Thu Dec 13 13:43:00 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 17-Dec-84 04:06:55 EST
References: <658@sjuvax.UUCP>
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Nf-ID: #R:sjuvax:-65800:ea:22400063:000:2248
Nf-From: ea!mwm    Dec 13 12:43:00 1984

In response to my question about how to recognize a socialist state from
the outside, Frank Adrian writes:

/***** ea:net.politics / hercules!franka /  6:39 pm  Dec 10, 1984 */
Socialists believe in state ownership in the name of the people.  Facists be-
lieve in state ownership as a means of protecting property for those who run
the government.

					Frank Adrian
	uucp: {decvax,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!tektronix!teklds!franka
/* ---------- */

Sounds to me like a socialist is someone who does what you approve of with
the state property, whereas fascists do something that you don't approve of
with the property. If I were one of the "people", it would seem that that
distinction was right by definition. However, I'm on the outside (and
presumably can't ask the people what they think), so that doesn't apply -
and I *still* have no means of telling the difference.

Laura, on the other hand, writes:

/***** ea:net.politics / utzoo!laura /  1:06 pm  Dec 11, 1984 */
I missed mwm's commentary on his original posting. i can tell you the
difference between fascism and socialism, though. Socialism espouses
government *ownership* and *control* of resources (supposedly for the
sake of the collective). Fascism espouses private *ownership* and
government *control* of resources (for a whole host of reasons, but
generally involving either the good of the state or ``national security'').

Laura Creighton
utzoo!laura
/* ---------- */

This definition I can use from the outside: A Fascist state will maintain
a facade that property is privately owned. Laura, unfortunately, isn't
a socialist, and I have a suspicion that no socialist will concur with
her definition (though a few fascists might :-). Does any socialist care
to step in and fill the void?

This also raises another question. Consider the following array:

				Ownership
			State		Private
			-----------------------
	State	|	Socialist	Fascist
Control		|
	Private	|	?????		Libertarian

(There are other names that could go in the Libertarian slot, but leave it
for now). The question is, what name fills the "?????" slot? I've been thinking
of such a state as a "Libertarian Socialist" (A.K.A. "Communitarianist") state.
Is there a name that I don't know that better fills it?