Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihnp4.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!tosca
From: tosca@ihnp4.UUCP (lyn cole)
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: Death for we who deserve it
Message-ID: <692@ihnp4.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 17-Dec-84 18:29:27 EST
Article-I.D.: ihnp4.692
Posted: Mon Dec 17 18:29:27 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 18-Dec-84 02:36:08 EST
References: <275@ho95b.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 49

I had expected many people to jump on this one
immediately.  Since no one seems to have noticed
(or cared about?) the real grammatical issue here,
i'll jump in.

Robert Neinast writes:

>>...
>>Let me rewrite the sentences with what I think are
>>illustrative phrasal groupings:
>>
>>"Death for (we who deserve it) is one thing."
>>In this case, the object of the preposition
>>is a gerund phrase (so that "we" is correct as
>>nominative case).  The object of the preposition
>>is specifically "we who deserve it" as a group,
>>and death is intended only for that specific group.
>>
>>"Death for us (who deserve it) is one thing."
>>In this case, we have a modifying phrase (the "us"
>>is the object of the preposition, and therefore
>>the objective case is correct).  The "who deserves it"
>>modifies "us", and is in some sense incidental.
>>
>>Two similar sentences are
>>1) My father objects to me picking my nose,
>>and
>>2) My father objects to my picking my nose.


First of all, in the original sentence quoted above,
there is no gerund in sight.  A gerund in English is
a verb form, ending in "ing", used as a noun.  There
is no way to interpret the sentence such that "we"
is correct; the explanation for the second form is
the only correct one.  The sentence can, however, mean
something slightly different if it is written with
commas:  "Death for us, who deserve it, is one thing."
In this case, we deserve it unconditionally; without
the commas, death comes only to those of us who
deserve it.

In the two "similar sentences", besides not being
similar, the first is incorrect.  For that meaning,
there should be a comma after "me": "My father
objects to me, picking my nose."

	lyn cole (ihnp4!tosca)
	AT&T Bell Laboratories, Naperville, IL