Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site watcgl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!watcgl!dmmartindale From: dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: The end of it Message-ID: <868@watcgl.UUCP> Date: Sat, 29-Dec-84 13:13:37 EST Article-I.D.: watcgl.868 Posted: Sat Dec 29 13:13:37 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 30-Dec-84 01:12:59 EST References: <127@decwrl.UUCP> <1839@sun.uucp> <1554@pucc-h> <1881@sun.uucp> <1590@pucc-h> <52@rti-sel.UUCP> <1625@pucc-h> Reply-To: dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale) Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario Lines: 59 In article <1625@pucc-h> aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) writes: >But I look at love from the standpoint of one friend >of mine who has known me for 9 years, and who says that when she first knew >me, she loved me even though she didn't like me much. This ties in with the >definition of love that I posted some time back, which began, "Love is not >being attracted to the good in another person; love is giving *to* another >person from one's own store of good" -- i.e. that love means giving to >someone even if you can't stand them. Jesus asks us to love our enemies, >and if I can't do that (yet), how can I deserve any favor or acceptance? >(Christians reading this, don't bother telling me that God accepts me as >I am; He agrees not to throw me out, but I question whether He likes me and >will say "well done" given that I am not much like Christ and do not act >much like Him. Acceptance is given, but praise and liking must be earned. >Anyone [especially from the Christian community] wish to address this point?) If I follow your argument correctly, you seem to be saying that you are not a good Christian because you are unable to love your enemies, and because of that God/Christ will not like your or approve of you (even though He accepts you), and thus you don't "deserve" any liking or approval from ordinary humans, and thus won't receive any. Human being simply *are* more tolerant than you give them credit for. They are quite capable and willing to love someone *even if they aren't perfect*. More precisely, there are certainly people out in the world who will not write you off simply because you don't love your enemies. Now, I really don't know whether your God is more severe and judgemental than this and thus really won't like/approve of you because you don't meet His standards, so I don't know if your error is in taking God to be more critical than He is or in assuming that people will be just as severe, but one of these assumptions is wrong. Also, you're failing to see that just because *you* believe that you don't "deserve" to be liked or loved does not imply that the rest of the world will see you that way. I'm often quite critical of myself and can see (at least some of) my flaws very clearly. On bad days, I might conclude, based on my own judgements of myself, that I wasn't deserving of love either. However, some experience has shown that other people are not me, that they have their own perspective on all things including their view of me. And sometimes the things that I see as flaws simply don't matter to them, or aren't very important. And sometimes there are things about me that they see as important good things, while I never gave myself much credit for them. The point of all this is that people react in ways that I could not have predicted, and sometimes people dislike me when I would not have guessed that, but sometimes people like me when that too is a surprise. Jeff, you simply cannot decide, rationally, in advance, that no one is going to like or love you. The fact that *you* feel undeserving proves nothing. The only way you will *really* know is to try. Of course, having the attitude that "nobody should love me because I don't deserve it" could create a variety of problems in your relationships, but you should realize that those problems are due simply to the *attitude* you have, and not because you are somehow not *good enough* in any objective sense. (but this is getting off the topic at hand, and this article is long enough already.) Hope this makes sense, and that it helps.