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From: lmaher@uokvax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Olson on VMS Manuals
Message-ID: <2200084@uokvax.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 26-Dec-84 23:20:00 EST
Article-I.D.: uokvax.2200084
Posted: Wed Dec 26 23:20:00 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Dec-84 02:47:50 EST
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Nf-ID: #N:uokvax:2200084:000:2809
Nf-From: uokvax!lmaher    Dec 26 22:20:00 1984

> /***** uokvax:net.general / Glacier!reid /  8:22 pm  Dec 12, 1984 */
> Digital Equipment Corporation publishes a newsletter entitled DECWORLD,
> which is sent to all employees. The November 1984 (Volume 8/Number 5) issue
> of DECWORLD contains a transcript of the State of the Company address given
> by Ken Olsen (president of DEC) at the DEC annual meeting. The date of that
> ...
> 
> Here is an exact quote, not particularly taken out of context, from that
> ...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run out
> of things they can do with UNIX. They'll want a real system and will end up
> doing VMS when they get to be serious about programming.
>    With UNIX, if you're looking for something, you can easily and quickly
> check that small manual and find out that it's not there. With VMS, no
> matter what you look for -- it's literally a five-foot shelf of
> documentation -- if you look long enough it's there. That's the difference
> -- the beauty of UNIX is it's simple; and the beauty of VMS is that it's all
> there.

Myself and another programmer that are writing the online data
acquisition and analysis system  for Experiment 653 at Fermi
National Accelerator Laboratory have a different attitude
toward towards the "complete" VMS Manuals:

	The More you work with VMS
		The More you hate it.

(There's a corollary, namely, "The more you work with Unix, the
more you like it.")  There seems to be a widespread idea that
just because the VMS manuals are massive they're complete, and
it's hard to imagine almost anything further than the truth.
Almost any significant question or problem with VMS requires
looking through 3 or 4 manuals (often more), at the end of which
you still don't know the simple yes-or-no answer you wanted.  

I feel very strongly that VMS is not a system for software
development, and Unix is.  VMS has practically no tools beyond
an editor (and Sort, if you want to call it that).  VMS is better
than UNIX at running Fortran, but as far as writing and testing
code, give me UNIX every time.  No doubt there are many people
who disagree, and I don't particularly care to start up the
semi-annual Unix vs. VMS flame again, but I just couldn't ignore
the chance to flame about THOSE IDIOT MANUALS!!!

There, I feel much better.

Naturally, the Engineering Computer Network, University of
Oklahoma, Fermilab, Department of Energy, and U.S. Government
neither condone, support, nor even understand the above opinion,
which is solely mine and that of every rational being on the
face of the earth. :-)  

	--Carl (don't bother sending me flames, I'll be back
		in Batavia by the time they reach here, and
		Fermilab isn't on USENET - ALL VMS/RSX/RT11 systems.)