Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!seismo!cmcl2!philabs!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: flame! etc. Message-ID: <1050@aecom.UUCP> Date: Thu, 20-Dec-84 14:38:04 EST Article-I.D.: aecom.1050 Posted: Thu Dec 20 14:38:04 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 23-Dec-84 00:16:53 EST Distribution: net Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 55 Well, I didn't mean to stir up such a hornets nest. When I said the Jews of Israel don't give a damn I wasn't refering to the citizens. I was refering to the attitude of the politicians who set up the laws who have a very large disregard for the Torah and Halacha. I can in no way say anything about the people of Israel, especially since my mother is Israeli as am I ( I am inasmuch as I have been drafted to serve in the army, an obligation ( and honor ) I will one day fulfill ). The people of the state are Jews a much as any other Jew in the world and in fact they have more going for them than we here (outside Israel ) do. After all they fulfill many mitzvot we don't even have to deal with. Aside from that, the z'chut of defending the Jewish people is not something to be taken lightly. A person who dies in such a situation, would be considered ( at least to me ) as a m'kadesh shem shamayim [ glorifying G-D's name ] and even if he weren't observant, I would say he has a quicker ticket to Olam Habba than anyone, no matter how great, who lives outside Israel. [ As an aside, I too have family members who fought in all the wars ]. What I was trying to say was something totally different. My point is this: The state, in its present status, is not a Jewish state. Before you blow up, let me explain. A person born to a Jew is a Jew, no matter what the level of his observance. However, a person who is not observant does not follow the Jewish religion. Reform "Judaism" is not Judaism. Judaism assumes that a person abide by the Torah. To say that the Torah is an historical record, and that the laws can be ignored, is NOT practicing Judaism. He is still Jewish, though. The state of Israel does not, by the above definition, fall under the category of a Jewish state. This is what I meant, no more, no less. You can argue with my definition of Jewish, but that's all you can argue with. As for what was said about people coming through the Holocaust thinking that Israel is "nice", as I said, all I can do ids reiterate one other portion of my article. Read Perfidy. See what Ben Hecht ( who was killed by those he wrote about ) had to say about the early political leaders of the state. He portrays a rather ugly picture. The book isn't too long and it's rather interesting. I hope I have cleared up some of what I said, but I still stick by my definitions and conclusions. Israel, from a religious standpoint has not fared so well. Look at all the Yemenite Jews who were brought to Israel. In Yemen they were observant. How many first generation Israelis ( from Yemenite parents ) can claim that? I'm not saying it would have been better to leave them there, but if they were moved it was and is the responsibility of those who moved them to care for them, both physically and religiously, and the government was negligent in both. The government is in a difficult situation. There are many who want more religious observance, many who don't. The government must be aware of those who want the religion and take them into consideration. As long as they don't I will remain firm in my beliefs, that the state is a state of Jews but not a Jewish state. Eliyahu Teitz.