Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxn.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!ihnp4!ihuxn!jho From: jho@ihuxn.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen) Newsgroups: net.abortion Subject: Re: Re: Frozen Embryos - a questionto pro-lifiers Message-ID: <911@ihuxn.UUCP> Date: Mon, 17-Dec-84 13:09:29 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxn.911 Posted: Mon Dec 17 13:09:29 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 18-Dec-84 02:47:06 EST References: <893@ihuxn.UUCP> <130@spp1.UUCP> <899@ihuxn.UUCP> <138@spp1.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 72 In recent article, I presented the following scenario concerning a frozen embryo: A frozen embryo who needs an immediate transplant in a woman's womb in order to survive. A woman, Ms. X, is the only woman that is available for the embryo transplant. However, Ms. X refuses to allow the transplant. The question is: Should Ms. X be forced to accept the transplant? Mike Johnston answered: A bigger difference was already stated. It is dependent on the individual case, whether an act of omission makes a person responsible for someone's death. But a positive act, with the intent to cease a life, is different. Clearly, Mike does not think that in this case Ms. X should not be coerced to carry the embryo in her womb against her will, although her refusal means the embryo will die. It is apparent that Mike is drawing a line on the extent to which we should go to preserve life. However, other people, who have different moral standards, have alternate demarkation lines. Pro-lifers claim that their standards are the correct ones, whereas other standards are the wrong ones. I feel that every person, including the pro-lifers, is entitled to his/her world view. But what I object to, is the pro-lifers attempts to coerce others to adhere to the "pro-lifer" moral code. Mike continues: Points like this [frozen embryos - I guess] are interesting as are incest and rape (and don't get me wrong, a life is involved in each case). But in terms, of sheer numbers they don't compare to the numbers of abortions performed under different situations. I agree that forcing implantation of frozen embryos is similar to rape. I also maintain that coercing woman to carry their unwanted fetus in their womb is also equivalent to rape. In this case the rapist would be our society. Now, lets talk about rape. Rape appears to be an area in which pro-lifers seem to have difficulties. For example, Thomas Newton writes }: }The case of pregnancies resulting from rape is really nasty since the fetus }who is "trespassing" is innocent and not responsible for its actions. In }this case, the woman should not be forced to actively support the fetus, but }every attempt should be made to perform a "live" abortion. If the fetus dies, }the rapist should be faced with a manslaughter charge (he caused its death in }much the same way that careless drivers cause the deaths of other people). If }it lives, the rapist should be forced to pay for the cost of its upbringing. Some pro-lifers "permit" abortion in the case of rape, since the woman "is not at fault", and therefore should not be "punished". Pro-lifers claim that rape is not a very significant factor in pregnancies, forgetting that many cases of rape are not reported. Sometimes husbands force their wives to have sexual intercourse. In this case, the woman is not at fault (unless you assume that married woman does not have the right to deny her husband's sexual pleasures). The problem is how to distinguishes between a voluntary sex act and a forced sex act in cases involving abortion? Should an abortion be permitted only if the rapist is convicted of his crime? Should we have a Thought Police, or an Inquisition? Or should an abortion be permitted if a woman has two black eyes, and disallowed if a woman has only one black eye? It is quite clear that in many cases it would be next to impossible to determine the level of consent (or force) in a sex act. -- Yosi Hoshen, Bell Laboratories Naperville, Illinois, (312)-979-7321, Mail: ihnp4!ihuxn!jho