Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site randvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!randvax!rohn From: rohn@randvax.UUCP (Laurinda Rohn) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: (public anger .. attacks/harrassment) Self Defense Message-ID: <2203@randvax.UUCP> Date: Fri, 21-Dec-84 13:15:09 EST Article-I.D.: randvax.2203 Posted: Fri Dec 21 13:15:09 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 24-Dec-84 03:02:20 EST References: <343@stcvax.UUCP> Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica Lines: 89 > from Jeffrey P. Snover - STC StorageTek (Disk Division) > BOO, HIIISSSSSS. NO, this is a well-meaning but very *bad* suggestion. > Self-defense classes can be grossly simplified to 2 forms: formal martial > arts classes and rape-defense classes. Neither of these are a good idea. > > 1. Formal martial arts classes require alot of practice and much > dedication. You probably shouldn't/couldn't feel confident with > you ability to defend yourself for at least six months to a year > of intense training. Sure they can teach you a trick or two in > the first couple of weeks but the willingness to actually do it > and the presence of mind required to not f**k it up take *MUCH* > longer. I don't agree with this at all. Yes, martial arts classes take dedication. So what? I happen to feel my life is worth protecting and am therefore willing to dedicate some amount of time to learning to do so. I took karate for 6 months or so, and while I wouldn't consider sparring with a black belt, I do feel confident that I could and would defend myself in some situations. Yes, they teach you a couple of tricks. For instance, how to get out of a stranglehold when someone grabs you by the throat from the front or back. I consider that a useful trick. And while I may not show the elegance in form that you have, I will be happy to show an attacker the ground at close level even if my stance is not quite perfect. > 2. Many formal martial arts classes will leave you totally unprepared > to deal with an actual combat situation. I speak from experience. > I was lucky enough to have trained in an "old world" okinawian > school when I first started the martial arts. They knew how to > prepare one for actual combat! Sparring was *real* in that > school! You knew what it was like to give a real punch or kick > and what it was like to receive one and still continue fighting. > (My broken arm and countless bruises lay testiment to the realness > of the sparring!). Since then I have been in and out of about > 6 or 7 other schools and I know for a fact that a very small > percent of these people could ever actually defend themselves > against anything more threatening than a 4 year old kid with a > butter knife. > > At one school they believed in "no contact" sparring. There was > a woman there that was trying to "learn how to defend herself" > and when she sparred she had her hands at her side and she lead > with her jaw. And this woman was almost a black belt!!!!!! I still think the classes are worthwhile. More on that later. > 3. Rape classes aren't workable for reason #2 also but in addition > they have the tendancy to be inappropriately *ruthless*. They > take the attitude that the only way that a woman can defend > herself is by maiming or killing her attacker!!! They think > nothing of teaching ineffably dangerous techniques to be used > as a first defense without qualifying who they teach it to or > providing a moral paradigm. This is *HORRIBLY* immoral and > irresponsible!!!! In prior days such teachers would have been > hunted out and discipled or killed by more "responsible" masters. Please excuse my bloodthirstiness, but if I am being attacked, I will most certainly do my best to stop my attacker. If I must maim or kill him/her, that's the way it goes. My "moral paradigm" is protecting myself. If, in the process of doing so, I have to be "immoral and irresponsible", I will. I think attacking someone is "immoral and irresponsible" also. >It is perfectly obvious that a problem exists here but in the search for >a defense against animals, please do not become as bad if not worse than they. If I have to act like an animal to defend myself against an animal, dammit, I'm going to do so!!! What do you suggest? That I simply shouldn't fight my attacker because I'm so much better morrally than they are? Wonderful. I can die superior. Excuse me if that isn't a great comfort to me. I think self defense classes are a good idea. If nothing else, they will give a person some confidence. I think that is probably the most useful thing they give. I just feel better knowing that I would at least have a fighting chance. It's stupid to fight someone with a gun if you're unarmed, but other than that, I would definitely do what I felt appropriate to the situation to defend myself. I'm sorry if I'm an animal, but if I can be a superior being or an animal that doesn't get raped and lives a little longer, I'd choose the latter any time. Lauri rohn@rand-unix.ARPA ..decvax!randvax!rohn "I told you when I met you I was crazy..."