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From: jdh@hou5g.UUCP (Julia Harper)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: why are men so angry
Message-ID: <484@hou5g.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 26-Dec-84 11:14:41 EST
Article-I.D.: hou5g.484
Posted: Wed Dec 26 11:14:41 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 27-Dec-84 03:42:17 EST
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
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<>
(That was probably an inappropriate title.  Although I must say, an
awful lot of men who write to net.women seem incredibly angry.)

The following was to be a response to the (fairly) recent WOMEN vs MEN survey.
Considering the continuing hostility between *some* women and *some*
men, (raving feminist bitches and perverted male sexists), I thought
I'd send in my personal (who elses!) opinion of the problem.  (For those 
who don't remember the survey, I leave it to you to figure out the questions...)

1.  I am female. 
(I am woman, I am strong, la la la dee la doowah!)

2.  The attitude of the opposite sex that is most prevalent and disturbs
    me the most is that they think women aren't discriminated against.  
    That any discrimination is brought on by the woman herself -- that she
    deserves it.  That men in general don't discriminate against women, only 
    the really slimey ones.  They NEVER think that THEY discriminate.  This 
    isn't true.  In fact most men and women discriminate against women  
    (just as most whites and blacks discriminate against blacks).

    A woman is trained to believe that her sexual attractiveness and her 
    ability to bear children are the be all and end all of her life -- this 
    is both positively and negatively reinforced.  Any other activity is 
    discouraged.  "Feminist" (if you will) training is usually a smaller part 
    of her growing up process.  The long history of this treatment of women has
    lead to a dirth of famous women (partly because of the difficulty women
    have had in reaching a state where they could do something worthy of fame,
    and partly because those who have done fame-worthy things are generally for-
    gotten and ignored -- because it doesn't fit with the historical societal 
    view of women), and has lead to a historical "proof" of the inability of
    women to achieve any other goals than those typically expected of them.

    Far too many men (more men than women) just can't seem to understand the 
    affect of this history on our perceptions.   They can't see that THEY
    are helping to perpetuate the myths we have been taught, thus helping
    to ensure they come true.

3.  I believe that the reason for this attitude amongst the opposite sex
    is obvious.  Who wants to be guilty of discrimination?  But what better
    way to fight discrimination than to recognize it, look for it, and try
    to bring it into a realm of conciousness where it can be more easily
    battled.


(If you believe that this attitude is a real problem and has significant
 ramifications if not remedied, please answer the next question.)

4.  I believe that this attitude problem can be solved.  I also think its
    a REAL PROBLEM.  It wouldn't be a real problem if all involved -- women
    and men, would just accept the myths and live them.  It wouldn't be a
    problem if all people rejected them.  The problem is, there are some in
    both camps.  And the lines, while not strictly sexual, put far more
    men than women in the anti-women's-rights camp.

    To restate the problem:  too many people (more men) won't admit the
    discrimination against women is a societal problem -- meaning we ALL
    are guilty.  The problem is complicated by the fact that MOST of the
    people telling us of the problem (women) can be dismissed as less than
    capable of comprehending such a problem to begin with (because is 
    doesn't fall into the category of the abilities of women).  Indeed, 
    this problem seems almost insurmountable when it comes to women
    discussing this issue with men... after all, if a man is
    prejudiced against women, yet doesn't know it, and a woman tells him
    he is, then she accomplishes nothing, because he values her opinion
    (a women's opinion) too little to find it worth investigating, much
    less believing.  Yet if he acknowledges this prejudice, her discussion
    of the societal problem becomes a subject almost too painful for him,
    as it reminds him of his own guilt.  (A women doesn't have the same
    problem... for each pang of guilt she must feel about her own prejudice,
    she can balance it with a feeling of anger or righteousness, or whatever).



p.s.  I certainly see no simple solution.  My brother (our discussions have
become much less LOUD than they used to be) loves now to tell me, "Yes, of
course you're right, there IS discrimination.  But you can't expect it to
change overnight."  He's right, of course.  But there are those of us (alas,
what a fate!) who must be in the forefront of change (which I am not!
I am simply further toward the front than the people behind me...), otherwise
there would be no change!

Julia Harper
(entertaining myself during Christmas week)