Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP
Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!seismo!umcp-cs!flink
From: flink@umcp-cs.UUCP (Paul Torek)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: CONSISTENCY?  Still waiting...
Message-ID: <2167@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 30-Dec-84 11:07:53 EST
Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.2167
Posted: Sun Dec 30 11:07:53 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 31-Dec-84 00:21:37 EST
Distribution: net
Organization: U of Maryland, Computer Science Dept., College Park, MD
Lines: 49

[Walter Wego was right]

From: mwm@ea.UUCP (No, libertarianism is not anarchy. What differentiates a libertarian
>government from an anarchy, and indeed from any statist government, is 
>that a libertarian government does *not* have the right to initiate 
>force. It may have a monopoly on force, and on being able to decide 
>when it will be used, but it may only use force in response to force.

The following phrases in you reply are crucial:
1. "does not have [sic--you mean claim] the right to initiate force"
2. "have a monopoly on force, and on being able to decide when it
	will be used"

1 contradicts 2.  QED.

From: 87064023@sdcc3.UUCP ({|lit)
> Government is characterized by a monopoly of legitimate force in an
> area...
> ...  We do not condone the initial use of
> force to solve problems.			John Wallner

But such a monopoly cannot be obtained without initiation of force.
QED.

From: stewart@ihldt.UUCP (R. J. Stewart)
>As for consistency, libertarian ethics hold that no one has the right to
>*initiate* force or fraud against another. ...  A government that is 
>restricted to this role is not contrary to libertarian principles.

A government so restricted would not be a government:  it would have to
allow competing (shall we call them) rights-enforcement organizations
to exist, and would therefore not have the requisite monopoly of force.
QED.

From:	J. Bashinsk>i<	...!ucbvax!bashinsk%ucbcory
>	A GOVERNMENT is an entity which reserves all use of force to itself,
>	    and which uses force to prevent others from using force without
>	    its authorization.
>	A LIBERTARIAN GOVERNMENT is a government which uses force only in
>	    response to the use of force or fraud by others...

...and is therefore a contradiction in terms.  To prevent (or be willing
to prevent) other (rights-enforcement) organizations from using force 
would require the initiation of force.  QED.

				Hoping it's finally sinking in,
				Paul V Torek, umcp-cs!flink
	(until 1/11, then back to	ihnp4!wucs!wucec1!pvt1047	)