Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site cadovax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!cadovax!keithd From: keithd@cadovax.UUCP (Keith Doyle) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Fragin' the Christians! Message-ID: <335@cadovax.UUCP> Date: Fri, 14-Dec-84 20:15:40 EST Article-I.D.: cadovax.335 Posted: Fri Dec 14 20:15:40 1984 Date-Received: Mon, 17-Dec-84 02:29:51 EST References: <211@decwrl.UUCP> Organization: Contel Cado, Torrance, CA Lines: 83 >Is this some of what is happening here on net.religion? Indeed in our country? I suppose. It's ok with me. >Many of those on the net who oppose Christianity seek a secular salvation >in the form of a rational moral structure or a 'better' society through >science. "Better living through Science" I suggest: Speak for Thyself >No not everone on the net beleives everything sold in the 'scientific' >marketplace. Primal scream, yogurt enemas, Carl 'billions & billions' Sagan, >etc. But how are we to build a civilization on chaos in the marketplace? We don't have to 'build' a civilization on (in?) chaos, it only has to be maintained. In such a chaotic environment, 'systems' tend to 'co-agulate' out of the fray. 'Gremlins' of some sort are required to interfere with the normal operation of these systems so that they do not become large and dominating. At the same time, these gremlins must not become a system of their own. Many of our present market system(s) have grown out of this chaos because existing gremlins were unable to curb systems growth. We now have several large systems that are inclined to further growth at no consideration for anyone or anything outside of their own particular system. 'Gremlins' that are able to pit these large systems against each other, are now required in order to regain the 'chaos' required for more complete freedom of thought and action. At present the religious community seems to be progressing fairly well in this area, as there are many diverse lower-order systems that are keeping things at least 'reasonably' chaotic. However, in the political and commercial communities, this opposite is true. There are several higer-order systems who's interests have major effects on surrounding lower-order systems. Clearly gremlins that pit political systems against each other exist, but this is undesirable, as they tend to have violent effects on the earth as a whole. Perhaps the recent trend of conflicts between commercial systems and political systems is an effective solution. Either way, these systems don't last forever, and tend toward chaos eventually. Personally, I think this is healthy. Perfect systems are for dreamers. >Daniel Bell says: > "The real problem of MODERNITY is the problem of belief." He sees a >breakdown of society along these lines. I don't understand why so many people think we all have to believe the same things. That's something I certainly don't believe. >Blake, with great insight I believe, said: "Man must and will have religion" Perhaps, but if true, I'd say A religion not THE religion. >"Even the endless chit-chat of our time is finally incapable of hiding the >fact that there is a hole at the heart of the scientific world view and of >any argument or character primarily determined by it. That 'hole' is there because it is beyond the realm of science. Science has no heart, as it is a brain. Religion is a heart (I suppose) and is not dictated to by science. (or at least should not be) >Into that hole some idea, emotion, or object will be elevated, to stave off >the chaos of a centerless, incoherent existence. For some that idea is called Christianity, others call it by other names. >I get sick and tired of, "I think" and "Well, I think" and no one refers >to any of the large body of thinking done and recorded down through the >ages and going on in our time. It's the mark of NON-THINKERS!!!! Perhaps it's the mark of thinkers who think for themselves, rather than adopt the arbitrary thoughts of those who chose to express their thoughts in words. >Some of you terds on net.religion actually think you have a right to an >opinion just because you can type. >And I'M raving???! Rave on, rave on... >Ken Arndt Keith Doyle {ucbvax,ihnp4,decvax}!trwrb!cadovax!keithd "You'll PAY to know what you REALLY think!"