Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ames.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!ames!barry From: barry@ames.UUCP (Kenn Barry) Newsgroups: net.misc Subject: Re: Mensa and elitism Message-ID: <722@ames.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Dec-84 16:51:37 EST Article-I.D.: ames.722 Posted: Mon Dec 24 16:51:37 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 27-Dec-84 03:09:01 EST References: <166@ttidcc.UUCP> Organization: NASA-Ames Research Center, Mtn. View, CA Lines: 53 [] From ttidcc!hollombe (Jerry Hollombe): > As usual, the point has been raised that Mensa is an elitist organization. > This is true. It is also true of highschool football teams, symphony > orchestras, and the company you probably work for (do you seriously think > they hire anyone who walks in the door?). Any organization which sets a > standard for membership is an elitist organization. I don't hear anyone > condemning the American Bar Association for being elitist (you have to pass > a bar exam to join). I've never been able to pass a calculus course. Is > the American Mathematical Society to be criticized for denying me > membership? The other organizations you mention could be called elitist, but their standards for membership are based on *accomplishment*, not innate ability. > We live in an elitist society. To claim anything else is pure hypocrisy. > The concept "that all men are created equal" has a fine, high-minded, > idealistic ring to it. It is also utter nonsense. The fact is that all > people are not created equal and they certainly don't become equal as they > grow older. My precise point. The premise of mensa seems to be that you qualify for membership by what you *are*, not what you've done. Formally, you could argue that you qualify by the accomplishment of scoring well on certain tests, but, as you here imply, that is not the premise of mensa. The premise is that these tests actually measure something meaningful about you, something innate. I think there are two things about mensa that some people find objectionable. One is the idea of a group which restricts membership according to traits that are (at least supposedly) innate. Recall the recent debate about the Association for Women in Computing (may be wrong name). Some objected to it as sexist (form of elitism) if it only admits women. The other problem is the tests, themselves. Do they measure *anything* beyond the ability to do well on certain specific types of tests? Or is it possible that mensa is not only elitist, but is based on a completely arbitrary measurement, and is thus a false elitism? Having just read Gould's THE MISMEASURE OF MAN, my doubts about the worth of IQ tests are particularly acute at the moment. Actually, I don't object to mensa; even went to a mensa open house, once, to check it out. But I do disagree with the implication in your article that mensa members are an elite of any sort. The question of what IQ tests actually measure (beyond one's skill at taking IQ tests) is still far too open to permit that conclusion. - From the Crow's Nest - Kenn Barry NASA-Ames Research Center Moffett Field, CA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- USENET: {ihnp4,vortex,dual,hao,menlo70,hplabs}!ames!barry SOURCE: ST7891