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From: tli@uscvax.UUCP (Tony Li)
Newsgroups: net.cse
Subject: Re: Where have all the hackers gone? (reposted)
Message-ID: <1299@uscvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 14-Dec-84 03:14:13 EST
Article-I.D.: uscvax.1299
Posted: Fri Dec 14 03:14:13 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 17-Dec-84 02:35:30 EST
References: <3137@utah-cs.UUCP> <629@bunker.UUCP>
Organization: CS&CE Depts, U.S.C., Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 55

> > The department I belong has very few undergraduate hacker
> > types.  They are being replaced by normal looking, normal acting people who
> > only want to make money.  They do their assignments on time, and seldom 
> > write
> > anything that they aren't either getting credit for, or being paid for.  
> > It's sickening.
> 

What's even more sickening is that nine out of ten of them do a *LOUSY* job.
I think that this is a result of Csci being advertised as a big-money field.
Kids get out of high-school, say they want to make the big $$$$, and ask the
advisor what pays well.  They end up in CS.  Then they find out that it
isn't easy.  Sigh.

> When (if?) you get out of school, you will find that doing assignments on
> time is a definite plus in the professional world.  If you are good at it,
> you will only do what you get paid for, because you will not have time to
> do other things.  He who pays the fiddler calls the tune; he who pays the
> programmer specifies what programs will be written.  "Only" want to make
> money?  I doubt that; I, for one, like making money, but I also enjoy
> learning how to do what I do well.
> 			^
			|
			|

Hmmm...  Sounds to me like you're one of the hackers.

> >   Where have the hackers gone?  They must have gone somewhere.
> 
> > Does anyone know of a computer science department somewhere that
> > has decent facilities but still allows undergraduates the oppertunity
> > to work on their own prodjects.  Is there anyplace out there that
> > gives undergraduates access to uucp.  I know that that is a lot to ask
> > of a department, but the must be someplace, deep in the backwaters of
> > computer sciencedom, laid back enough to give undergraduates the
> > opportunity to really learn how to program.
> > 	Steven (Harley) Davidson
> > 
> Gary Samuelson

Harvey Mudd College (yes, I'm biased) does allow undergrads unlimited access
to their computers (almost).  Uucp and source access seems to be a problem
currently, but this seems to be a momentary problem.  Unfortunately, Mudd,
as of yet, does not have a CS dept.  I'm not sure that they want one, or
what.  In fact, in the case of Mudd, I'm not sure that one would be a good
idea.

Cheers, 
Tony ;-)

-- 
Tony Li ;-)		Usc Computer Science
Uucp: {sdcrdcf,randvax}!uscvax!tli
Csnet: tli@usc-cse.csnet
Arpa: tli@usc-ecl