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From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Re: More replies to Ken (and general comments)
Message-ID: <316@pyuxd.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 7-Dec-84 22:50:54 EST
Article-I.D.: pyuxd.316
Posted: Fri Dec  7 22:50:54 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 8-Dec-84 06:52:40 EST
References: <1114@trwrba.UUCP> <> <1905@nsc.UUCP> <397@ucsfcgl.UUCP> <993@aecom.UUCP>
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J.
Lines: 35

>>>But if there were no God, man would not exist.  Nothing would exist.  (This
>>>could get into some really mind-bending philosophy....)  [SARGENT]

>>Well, this leads us to the logical next statement: If whatever created
>>God did not exist, God would not exist.  Of course, this holds true for
>>whatever created whatever created God, ad nauseum.  Why do we stop with
>>one level of indirection?  [ARNOLD]

>    this assumes that G-D was created.  [TEITZ]

Ah, let's make a little list:

A) Let's assume:  (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe was created by
	a deity, (3) the deity was created by ???, ...

B) Let's assume:  (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe was created by
	a deity, (3) the deity didn't have to have been created

C) Let's assume:  (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe didn't have to
	have been created by an entity/deity

Since A) results in an endless chain, if B) is considered feasible [God didn't
	have to have been created], then C) is just as feasible [the universe
	didn't have to have been created by God], and much less presumptive.
	You can't have your cake here and eat it too.  When one proclaims,
	"How could the universe not have been created?  There must have been
	a creator.", then one might have to accept the same possibility about
	the creator (that IT must have had a creator).  If you don't accept
	that (God didn't have to have a creator), then, once again, it is
	equally fathomable that the universe didn't have to either.

(By the way, what's this arbitrary demarcation between the universe and god?)
-- 
"Pardon me for breathing which I never do anyway so I don't know why I bothered
 to mention it--Oh, God, I'm so depressed."		Rich Rosen  pyuxd!rlr