Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site aecom.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!seismo!cmcl2!rna!rocky2!cucard!aecom!teitz From: teitz@aecom.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: Kulawiec on Sargent on speaking in tongues Message-ID: <969@aecom.UUCP> Date: Tue, 27-Nov-84 13:28:55 EST Article-I.D.: aecom.969 Posted: Tue Nov 27 13:28:55 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 30-Nov-84 07:45:53 EST References: <231@pyuxd.UUCP> <1469@pucc-h>, <184@stat-l> <1489@pucc-h>, <191@stat-l> <1503@pucc-h> Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY Lines: 69 > >> = Sargent > > = Kulawiec > > > Can we talk about standards of proof for a minute? If you tell me > > that you dropped a magtape in your office yesterday, and it hit the floor, > > I'll probably take your word for it, because (a) it's repeatable on demand, > > (b) I've seen it happen before, (c) it's a (relatively) common occurrence, > > attributable to the laws of physics. If, on the other hand, you tell me > > that the Math-Science building was upside down at 8 o'clock this morning, > > I probably won't believe you, because none of (a) thru (c) apply. I think > > "speaking in tongues" is closer to this second example, and thus I will not > > take your word for it. > > Speaking in tongues is repeatable on demand (perhaps not with the same words, > but the same general phenomenon), I've seen it before (in others as well as > in myself), and it is a fairly common occurrence; it's just not attributable > to the so-called "laws" (actually only observed regularities) of physics. > > >> You are only hurting yourself by cutting yourself off from the Source of life > >> due to your cynical, doubting, denying attitude. > > > Feh. I've said nothing about the "Source of life", whatever that is, and > > I really don't think I'm hurting myself. I call it "keeping an open mind". > > I'm quite ready to be convinced; but blanket statements won't do the trick. > > OPEN MIND??? I know I'll get flamed for this one, but boy, have you been > fooled by one of Satan's greatest masterpieces of propaganda! You deny > anything that doesn't fit into your tidy little limited stuffy boxes of > scientific rigor (mortis), and you call that keeping an open mind? You're > not hurting yourself; you're suffocating yourself inside your scientific > prejudices. > > Whew.... That felt good. It was a little hot, but it's true. > > The way most people are convinced of Christ's power is not by scientific > demonstration, but rather by submitting themselves to Him. He who loses > his life shall find it, for the Source of life, God the Creator Himself, > shall give him a new one. > > Your seven-step outline of suggested method of proof seems to show your > die-hard, fight-to-the-last refusal to believe in God. There's probably > more hope for you than for others not so polarized. I've heard that C.S. > Lewis, once a high-powered atheist, wrote in one of his books that he was > dragged kicking and screaming into the kingdom of God. Of course, once > he got there and realized what it was really like, he became one of its > greatest supporters. > > -- > -- Jeff Sargent > {decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq > "I'm not asking for anyone's bleeding charity." > "Then do. At once. Ask for the Bleeding Charity." The one point I want to add here is that no one can be convinced of the existence of G-D. If we could be, then we'd be in alot of hot water if we didn't believe. This way we get rewarded for recognizing Him and He decides what punishment we get if we don't see Him. Scientific methods can't and don't work in this area. Faith can not be proven. It's a seemingly ( to those who haven't taken it ) illogical notion, and the logic can be, and has been, argued for millenia. As for speaking in tongues, I don't know. The whole concept was foreign to me until it came up on the net, and to me it proves nothing. I had a friend who knew nothing of Polish, yet he made up sounds that in actuality were Polish. Does this prove anything? Yes. My friend has a good imagination and a creative mind. Eliyahu Teitz.