Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site clyde.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!jona From: jona@clyde.UUCP (Jon Allingham) Newsgroups: net.college Subject: Re: Where have all the hackers gone? Message-ID: <676@clyde.UUCP> Date: Mon, 10-Dec-84 09:28:19 EST Article-I.D.: clyde.676 Posted: Mon Dec 10 09:28:19 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 11-Dec-84 02:47:06 EST References: <3138@utah-cs.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Whippany NJ Lines: 53 > ... > Where have the hackers gone? They must have gone somewhere. Does >anyone know of a computer science department somewhere that has decent >facilities but still allows undergraduates the oppertunity to work on >their own projects. Is there anyplace out there that gives >undergraduates access to uucp. > I know that that is a lot to ask of a department, but the must >be someplace, deep in the backwaters of computer sciencedom, laid back >enough to give undergraduates the opportunity to really learn how to >program. > ... I don't really think this 'article' is serious, but I'm responding anyway. I agree that too many schools are limiting computer access and enrollment and that many budding computer scientists do just their work and not anything creative, however I do not agree that hackers make the best programmers. 1) many hacker-types I met in school were more interested in working on their own projects and didn't always do the work they were supposed to. This is not a person I would want to work for me. 2) their programs were often extremely clever, making use of lots of unkown/unused features/bugs of various machines - often unportable between different sites with the same series machine. 3) they tend to spend most of their time in the computer center and often neglect other classwork they find dull and uninteresting. I still feel that an engineer should know more than just his/her specialty in order to be more flexible. 4) how much future is there in hacking/programming? If all you want to do is spend >8 hrs/day programming for the rest of your life fine, I would get bored after a few years of that. I do want to point out that I am not anti-hacker. I spent most of my college career in the computer center. Since I worked in the Comp Center, I was one of the few people who had unlimited computer resources and access and I took full advantage of that. ( not only that, but as cliche as it may sound: some of my best friends are hackers. ) Jon A. PS. For those of us with true understanding, hacking is the only pure art form. -- Jon M. Allingham (201)386-3466 AT&T Bell Laboratories-WH "Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life down here!"