Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site amdahl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amdahl!canopus From: canopus@amdahl.UUCP (Flaming Asteroid) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Sargent's lack of scientific knowledge Message-ID: <674@amdahl.UUCP> Date: Wed, 5-Dec-84 13:17:00 EST Article-I.D.: amdahl.674 Posted: Wed Dec 5 13:17:00 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 6-Dec-84 07:46:37 EST References: <29@rti-sel.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 55 > > [Mr Sargent] > > The last sentence is the real key. Your standard of proof is limited, being > > relative *only* to the physically perceptible world. When we start talking > > about God, things don't always work according to humanity's standards of > > proof or logic. (Both Testaments are full of examples.) > > > [Mr Buckland] > YOUR last sentence is the real key. If you open up the "standards > of proof" to things that cannot be perceived physically, any form of > metaphhyical garbage can be "proved". This is not the scientific method. > The limiting of methods of proof to the physically perceivable and > reproducable events is what has advanced science from the superstitious > dark ages. Your arguments threaten to bring back superstition, witch hunts > and church domination of all aspects of life. I personally plan to > resist a move in this direction with all the resources at my disposal. > > p.s. I also have never seen any proof that the events related in > the old and new testaments ever occured so any arguments that are > based on the events in the bible will not be scientifically valid. [Me] I think I would be a bit hesitant to argue against the validity of things which are not reproducible. For example, many historical events have occurred which are not reproducible, that I am sure you will agree are "valid" i.e the existence of the universe (how many universes have you been able to create lately in the laboratory?), and your own existence (unless, of course, you believe you are invalid [:-)]). Most of the events in the Bible are a written account of an oral history which has been handed down for generations. As is the case with most historical events, they are not reproducible, but I wouldn't say that they didn't happen. Most of us believe what we read in the history books (granted, they are probably more factually accurate than the Bible), and take the information as fact. Events in the Bible can (at this time) be neither proved nor disproved; belief in the biblical events is an act of religious faith, which most scientists recognize, and have no problems with. As for the Scientific Method, and observable reproducible phenomena, better be careful! Nobody has seen a quark yet (true, they see these funny lines on a plate from a particle accelerator). Much of particle Physics is Theory and Belief. No one knew the Atom Bomb would work before it was detonated. You seem to be as "hung up" on your Scientific Dogma as much as your counterpart is "hung up" in his religious dogma. Recognize it for what it is, and keep an open mind! I wouldn't worry about a return to Church Domination etc etc. We all have too much knowledge for this to ever happen (my belief only). It's the Astrologers you have to watch out for! -- Frank Dibbell (408-746-6493) ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!canopus [The views expressed herein are not necessarily the views of my employer, or myself, for that matter]