Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site pyuxd.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!pyuxww!pyuxd!rlr From: rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Re: More replies to Ken (and general comments) Message-ID: <316@pyuxd.UUCP> Date: Fri, 7-Dec-84 22:50:54 EST Article-I.D.: pyuxd.316 Posted: Fri Dec 7 22:50:54 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 8-Dec-84 06:52:40 EST References: <1114@trwrba.UUCP> <> <1905@nsc.UUCP> <397@ucsfcgl.UUCP> <993@aecom.UUCP> Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway N.J. Lines: 35 >>>But if there were no God, man would not exist. Nothing would exist. (This >>>could get into some really mind-bending philosophy....) [SARGENT] >>Well, this leads us to the logical next statement: If whatever created >>God did not exist, God would not exist. Of course, this holds true for >>whatever created whatever created God, ad nauseum. Why do we stop with >>one level of indirection? [ARNOLD] > this assumes that G-D was created. [TEITZ] Ah, let's make a little list: A) Let's assume: (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe was created by a deity, (3) the deity was created by ???, ... B) Let's assume: (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe was created by a deity, (3) the deity didn't have to have been created C) Let's assume: (1) the universe exists, (2) the universe didn't have to have been created by an entity/deity Since A) results in an endless chain, if B) is considered feasible [God didn't have to have been created], then C) is just as feasible [the universe didn't have to have been created by God], and much less presumptive. You can't have your cake here and eat it too. When one proclaims, "How could the universe not have been created? There must have been a creator.", then one might have to accept the same possibility about the creator (that IT must have had a creator). If you don't accept that (God didn't have to have a creator), then, once again, it is equally fathomable that the universe didn't have to either. (By the way, what's this arbitrary demarcation between the universe and god?) -- "Pardon me for breathing which I never do anyway so I don't know why I bothered to mention it--Oh, God, I'm so depressed." Rich Rosen pyuxd!rlr