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Path: utzoo!watmath!watcgl!dmmartindale
From: dmmartindale@watcgl.UUCP (Dave Martindale)
Newsgroups: net.micro,net.college
Subject: Re: Free and undirected campus computing facilities - Not at Waterloo (medium long)
Message-ID: <594@watcgl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 30-Nov-84 11:45:58 EST
Article-I.D.: watcgl.594
Posted: Fri Nov 30 11:45:58 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 3-Dec-84 12:23:07 EST
References: <457@utcsrgv.UUCP> <649@watdcsu.UUCP>
Organization: U of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 47

> Little or none availible machine resources is the way most of the real world
> is. If there are not enough comnputing resources around,us in the real world
> also have to beg and plead with the boss ,board of governors,etc ... It seems
> that these universities are trying finally teaching students something they
> can use later in life. In business, when a department head cannot get the
> resources he wants from the EDP department,he usually goes out and buys a PC.
> (Yes, thats as in IBM).

Let me see if I understand you.  You seem to be saying that dealing with
inadequate computing resources is one of the more valuable things that
a university teaches - it's something we (the students) can actually use
in later life.  Hogwash.  I don't know what kind of code you write for
a living, but I actually make use of at least some of the knowledge picked
up from taking courses and extracurricular computing.  Lack of machine
resources just interferes with this learning process.  And learning
about computing was the reason I took the courses, not learning about
frustration.

> When I was in school, we were more concerned with finding a good keypunch 
> machine that worked, crts were also in short supply. But obviously I and
> alot of other people learned the tools of the trade under those conditions.

Right, and anyone who would like conditions to be better than those you
lived with is simply a wimp?

> One of the best ways to learn computing is through work/study programs such
> as the coop program. Then you learn what computers are really used for.

Oh, did you actually participate in a co-op program?  Waterloo is one of
the largest co-op schools (for CS) on the continent and I've known a number
of people who were in that program.  Generally, employers want the co-op
student to accomplish "real work" on their work term and assign them to
jobs that seem to be suited to their level of knowledge and experience.
This usually does NOT include mucking about in the innards of the operating
system on their machine.  On the other hand, I obtained considerable
experience working on an operating system of a "free computer" at Waterloo,
experience I consider far more valuable than virtually all of the co-op
jobs that people relate to me.  It's true that I didn't get paid for
the work, but then I was free to work on what was interesting to me
rather than what someone else needed done right now.

Now, I'm sure you'll consider that learning something "interesting" is a
waste of time compared to learning something "useful in the real world".
But, all in all, I have no regrets that I learned the innards of UNIX
rather than how to deal with one of IBM's operating systems or transaction
processing packages or whatever I would have learned in a job doing
something "useful".