Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 / QGSI 2.0; site qubix.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!whuxlm!harpo!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!qubix!lab From: lab@qubix.UUCP (Q-Bick) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Bick's Babblings Message-ID: <1571@qubix.UUCP> Date: Fri, 7-Dec-84 02:02:38 EST Article-I.D.: qubix.1571 Posted: Fri Dec 7 02:02:38 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 9-Dec-84 02:22:52 EST References: <1762@ucf-cs.UUCP> Organization: Quadratix ... Quartix Lines: 106 [Due to a recent Qubix policy statement regarding non-technical newsgroups, this may be my last posting for a while. My failure to respond to anything later from Yiri or others is not to be seen as a concession of any point. I will still be available by e-mail.] In thinking over Yiri's points, I almost came to the conclusion that he was just trying straighten out Gentiles much as I would try to straighten out someone who was following Mormonism. It was just that his message was hidden by the tone of his articles. --- Then I re-read his articles. His position is not one of strength, but of inaccessibility. When someone would counter him in a particular area, he would close that off with "No,no, you gotta do it this way." Well, foo on that. He still hasn't made his case to me. His latest epithet said nothing that supported it. He continues to focus on the leaves of the tree of his argument rather than letting someone check the roots and branches. > Parkes has been a widely respected Oxford scholar... I mentioned something about being in a class with Union Theological or Chicago... > ...and Bagatti was written up in the Biblical Archaeological Review. Surely you can do better than that. Credentials, please. Further, I can only presume you mean Biblical Archaeology Review. > Why don't you get off your duff and obtain a little learning... Why don't you go to those who already have the learning? Oh, excuse me, "they have an axe to grind." Double foo. Why don't *you* get off *your* duff and find out a little more about Feinberg & Rosenthal? While you're at it, do some research on the Bar Cochba revolt of A.D.132 and Rabbi Akiba's declaration of Bar Cochba as Messiah - something the Hebrew Christians would not take. With all the time that Yiri devotes to this, he supposes that those of us working 60 hours a week and having another primary concentration off work should be able to give the same amount of time. Why doesn't Yiri take up his case directly with someone from, say, Dallas or Grace Theological Seminary? Perhaps he should try to contact Charles Feinberg directly at Biola University, La Mirada, CA. That should also take care of Yiri's flippant dismissal of Feinberg's credentials as an orthodox rabbi and one who understands Judaism (I note that Yiri dropped similar comments about Feinberg's understanding of Christianity. BTW, don't forget Feinberg is also an archeologist). Rosenthal can be reached at Friends of Israel, Box 123, West Collingswood, NJ 08107. Sar Shalom Publications (Box 1331, Englewood Cliffs, NJ 07632) is another resource. > Just evaluating what you have written (even though I strongly suspect > that, like your other assertions, it is heavily 'colored'),... And Yiri was complaining and accusing others of judging *his* heart? You accuse yourself, O hypocrite! > You must offer more than your babbling to show that the NASB people > had no axe to grind. You must offer more than your babbling to show that they *do*. Your case thus far is totally inadequate. Besides, someone else having an *alleged* axe 2000 years ago is no indication of an axe now. > > ...to get the New Testament anywhere close to what Yiri claims it to > > be would require more than a mere "redaction" - it would entail a > > COMPLETE REWRITING. > Provide some basis for your babblings other than the babblings > themselves. Maybe if you'd stop with the insults, you might find better results. Anyway, start with Acts 7 Stephen vs. the *Jewish* Council 8 the Jews wouldn't normally deal with Samaritans 9 the change in Saul and his preaching to the Jews 10-11 Peter went to the *uncircumcised*, and defended it before those who chastised him 12 killing James and imprisoning Peter would be nothing to the Gentiles 13-14 opposition springing from the Jews, not the Gentiles 15 the entire question of keeping the Law 16 the jailer was told nothing about keeping the Law 17 the Bereans *searched the scriptures*, plus more Jewish opposition, plus Paul's specific address to the Athenians 18 more Jewish opposition, plus still more preaching by Jews about Messiah 19 Paul vs. the synagogue, and withdrawing therefrom 20 Paul's message not one of obeying the Law 21 Paul seized by the *Jews* for allegedly bringing a Gentile beyond the Court of the Gentiles 22 defense before the Jews, who then rioted 23 defense before the *Jewish* Council 28 more preaching to the Jews, again nothing about keeping the Law then you can chuck all of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, and Hebrews, plus all of John's writings. Oh yes, and Philippians 3:2-11, particularly 7 "But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ" (NASB) What things? His Hebrew credentials that he lists in the preceding verses! Yiri fudges on direct questions as to whether or not he keeps Torah, yet he insists that Christians should bear such a yoke, one which neither he nor his fathers was able to bear (cf. Acts 15:10 - go ahead, Yiri, tell us how it *should* be translated :-). In Galatians, Paul blasts such people (6:12-16 for example). -- The Ice Floe of Larry Bickford {amd,decwrl,sun,idi,ittvax}!qubix!lab You can't settle the issue until you've settled how to settle the issue.