Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hao!seismo!brl-tgr!jeffh From: jeffh@brl-tgr.ARPA (Jeff Hanes ) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: dark ages Message-ID: <6291@brl-tgr.ARPA> Date: Mon, 3-Dec-84 09:09:29 EST Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.6291 Posted: Mon Dec 3 09:09:29 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 6-Dec-84 06:24:23 EST References: <728@oliven.UUCP> Reply-To: jeffh@brl-tgr.ARPA [ The Fantome Straynger ] Organization: Ballistic Research Lab Lines: 61 Summary: >My point is the creationists ,while individually peaceful, are part of >a larger movement that holds the greatest threat to personal liberties >and civilization that can possibly be imagined. >Contemplating the possible emergence of a technological based THEOCRACY >has got to be the ultimate libertarian nightmare. > >The efforts of these people to force their will via the legislatures, and >school boards MUST be opposed at all costs. I feel that your article deserves more than a flame, so I will attempt to give you a calm, rational response. I hope this doesn't offend regular readers of this newsgroup :-) (I also hope it doesn't become standard practice in net.flame :-) ). I think your arguments represents more of a danger than the creationists you fear. By your statements it appears that you advocate the silencing of this "dangerous" philosiphy and, by implication, its proponents (i.e. Christians, in your view). Before I go further, let's define the bounds of your statement. Any devout Jew, Muslim, or Hindu would probably believe that *some* supernatural force created the universe and all that it holds (us, in particular). However your remarks do not seem to be directed at any other than the Christian element, so I will address you on those grounds. How does Christianity "hold the greatest threat to personal liberties and civilizations that can possibly be imagined"? Few Christians support any sort of theocracy; it was, in fact, Christians who proposed the separation of church and state upon which our government was founded. Most of the writers of our Constitution and Declaration of Independence were Christian men (does that shock you?) and based their writings on Christian philosophers. They knew the dangers of a theocracy and worked to avoid any such occurence in this country, and to provide freedom for all. Iran and the Soviet Union are examples of theocracy in action (yes, atheism is a religion). It is illegal and often fatal to be a Christian there. Yet muslims and communists are guaranteed freedom of expression in our country. Do you want to end that sort of freedom? If you deny freedom of expression and religion to Christians, where will it end? In a repressive, dictatorial regime. I thought you wanted to avoid that by your eternal vigilance. Side note: >The cost of freedom is eternal vigilantes. I assume you meant `vigilance', but you may have hit the truth, anyway. Your type of "freedom" would have government vigilante groups silencing all opposition to your beliefs. What "efforts ... to force their will via the legislatures" are you refering to? When Christians go before the legislatures, it is to preserve the freedoms that are supposedly guaranteed by our Constitution. Christians do not desire to take over the world by force. We want to guarantee freedom of religion to *all* men, and then be given the opportunity to show to the world, by our actions, that Christianity is, indeed, the truth; bur never, Never, NEVER, to *force* anyone to accept our beliefs, since becoming a Christian must be an act of free will. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Fantome Straynger <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< "There's more to life than off center V-neck T-shirts" USnail: 508 Wheel Rd. UUCP: {seismo,decvax,unc}!brl-bmd!jeffh Bel Air, MD 21014 ARPA: