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From: sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: net.motss
Subject: Re: Biological basis for homosexuality?
Message-ID: <1187@bbncca.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 4-Dec-84 10:38:06 EST
Article-I.D.: bbncca.1187
Posted: Tue Dec  4 10:38:06 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 5-Dec-84 01:15:34 EST
References: <2159@randvax.UUCP> <1184@bbncca.ARPA> <663@amdahl.UUCP>
Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 64

Gordon, I think you are being deliberately obtuse in order to post a quick
response.  In any event, you didn't understand my point at all, which
wasn't an attack on abortion rights, nor a plea to avoid scientific
investigation.  One needn't have to question the rights of women to have
abortions if one is to examine societal mores, their effects on individual
decisions, and the subsequent cumulative effect of these decisions on
society.  The fact that one of my examples used an abortion was simply
reflecting reality, since that would doubtlessly be one approach towards
solving the "problem" of having a child who had a good chance of turning
out gay.

Since the gay topic seems to be a red flag of sorts, let's examine the
situation that you use to buttress your replies: the ability for parents
these days to choose the sex of their child.  Some feminists are becoming
concerned by this, because overall, boys are preferred to girls.  Let's say
that this choice became the norm, and with the result of all these
cumulative decisions on the sex of a child, we begin to see a significant
shift in the sex ratio of births in the U.S., and a resulting change in
demographics.  Is it not appropriate for those concerned to speak out about
this, to ask people to examine the underlying reasons for their choices, to
ask what this says about "male" and "female" in our society?  Doesn't this
present an enormous educational problem to those who disagree with this
trend?  Isn't it appropriate to discuss this BEFORE it becomes reality?

I submit that the analogous situation with gay people is even more
disturbing and more likely, and homophobia armed with biological means
could easily lead towards the eradication of gay people, or more likely,
to make a minority even smaller, to vitiate its power and presence in
society, and to contribute towards the homogenization of society by
removing those who are not like the majority.

Your comment comparing finding the "marker" for homosexuality before or at
birth with knowing the sex of the child makes sense only in a world without
sexism and homophobia.  My comments reflected the situation of someone
born in a world which is fearful enough of homosexuality that it finds it
necessary to measure it during pregnancy.

>>=SDyer
>> The issue here is not scientific knowledge or technology, but their use as
>> tools to implement what society feels is "good", often to the detriment of
>> individual variation and freedom.  It is incumbent upon people to speak
>> against such goals when they are voiced, to question their underlying
>> assumptions, and to continue the goal of education, to help persuade people
>> otherwise when they describe same-sex sexual orientation as a "problem"
>> which needs to be cured.

If it was worth saying once, it deserves repeating, especially on USENET.

>=Gordon Moffett
>The future of humanity is in the hands (wombs) of women, as it always
>has been.  Your arguments sound surprisingly like those of the "right
>to life"-ers, as though homosexual fetuses (?) have a right to life
>despite the mother's wishes.

Sorry, gam, the future of humanity is in all our hands.  Anyone and
everyone has the right to question the direction society is moving in,
and to attempt to persuade others to come around to their position.
I don't weep for "homosexual fetuses", but I do question whether a
world without gay people is a good world, or measurably better than
what we have now.
-- 
/Steve Dyer
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