Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site uwmacc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!hao!seismo!uwvax!uwmacc!rick From: rick@uwmacc.UUCP (the absurdist) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Only a few nuts rape? Message-ID: <541@uwmacc.UUCP> Date: Thu, 6-Dec-84 13:36:10 EST Article-I.D.: uwmacc.541 Posted: Thu Dec 6 13:36:10 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 12-Dec-84 05:47:59 EST References: <10011@watmath.UUCP> <136@ihu1m.UUCP> <1830@sun.uucp> Reply-To: rick@uwmacc.UUCP (Rick Keir) Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center Lines: 45 Summary: In article <1830@sun.uucp> sunny@sun.uucp (Sunny Kirsten) writes: >The fact that the question involved "getting caught" implies we're >talking about the use of force of violence, rather than "friendly >persuasion" of true enjoyment. Thus we can say that 1/3 of the male >population of a certain age category ( a snapshot of the better >(college) crosssection of "society") has no moral compunction (only >fear of retribution) about forcibly dominating a woman and using her... >mail ucbvax\!sun\!sunny decvax\!sun\!sunny ihnp4\!sun\!sunny<No, we can't say that. What we can say is that in some fairly unrealistic experiments (conducted just across the street from here), some college sophomore males give answers that are exactly what Ed Donnerstein is looking for (at least, I assume Sophie's original posting was referring to his work, since he's a big name for this sort of study). Any study like this has great demand characteristics. First they are shown pornography; often violent pornography depicting rape. Then they get to fill out forms about their attitudes. What do these forms mean? Not very much. Most people, if questioned properly, can be induced to answer that it is POSSIBLE they could commit awful crimes that in fact they are totally incapable of in real life. They even know what answer the experimenter is looking for, since they just saw films of sexual violence. "Hmmm, I did have some small sexual response when I saw her with her clothes off....maybe I could do this horrible thing....besides, he's a psychologist, he must know what he's doing, and it is pretty clear that he expects people to answer yes, otherwise why is he asking... I know I've had violent thoughts...oh my GOD, I'd better answer yes... it's a good thing these experiments are anonymous." The relevance of these studies to the real world is tenuous indeed; they get published only because of the difficulty of getting anything better for answers. (Oh, someone says, another barbarian computer jock sneering at all social science research). Not so. My M.S. is in psychology; I've taught experimental psychology; and I've published twice in refereed journals (Behavior Research and Therapy; Animal Learning and Behavior). I'm sneering from an informed perspective. Too many journalists pick up on Donnerstein's work and write sensationalist articles about what beasts men are. It's about time this research got the benevolent neglect it deserves. -- TV got it right for once: "Bob, it's all a crock." -- from the Bob Newhart show. Rick Keir -- MicroComputer Information Center, MACC 1210 West Dayton St/U Wisconsin Madison/Mad WI 53706 {allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!rick