Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site amdahl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!hplabs!amdahl!gam From: gam@amdahl.UUCP (Gordon A. Moffett) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Re: poor starving people Message-ID: <611@amdahl.UUCP> Date: Wed, 28-Nov-84 22:24:57 EST Article-I.D.: amdahl.611 Posted: Wed Nov 28 22:24:57 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 30-Nov-84 19:10:18 EST References: <642@amd.UUCP> <590@amdahl.UUCP> <133@talcott.UUCP> Distribution: net Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 43 > = Greg Kuperberg harvard!talcott!gjk > From Frank Dibbell: > > I don't know if the famine is temporary or not, but starvation is one > > of nature's ways of population control: if humans will not maintain > > their numbers at a level sustainable by the land, nature will do it > > for them. > > > > .... > > If we continue to play God, continuing to tamper with nature, and are > > somehow able to keep all these people alive, what will we do for the > > next famine? And the one after that? Ultimately it will strain even > > our own country's ability to feed itself, resulting in a massive > > global famine. Then what? > > > > No one ever said that life would be fair. > > This is really ridiculous. Ever since the invention of the plow we have > been "playing God." The whole point of human civilization is to alter > nature. U.S. aid is precisely an attempt to "maintain our numbers at a > level sustainable by the land," and nature doing it for us is exactly what > we're trying to avoid. > > Furthermore, the plight of Ethiopia is hardly due to nature alone. Japan > is far more crowded, and yet so much better off. It would also help if > farmers in Ethiopia used rotational grazing. It would also help if the > Cubans left. The difference is that Japan is economically stable and can *afford* (financially, anyway) such density of population. Ethiopia, clearly, cannot. Human beings reproduce "by nature" as any other animals do, and as Frank pointed out, there is a penalty for overdoing it when the environment (or the local government, in this case) does not encourage self-sufficiency. Whence comes Phil's original proposal. As for "the whole point of human civilization is to alter nature", let's just say we have a philosophical difference there. -- Gordon A. Moffett ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,sun}!amdahl!gam 37 22'50" N / 122 59'12" W [ This is just me talking. ]