Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site amdahl.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amdahl!gam
From: gam@amdahl.UUCP (Gordon A. Moffett)
Newsgroups: net.flame,net.religion
Subject: Re: History as Fact / Science and Religion
Message-ID: <675@amdahl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 5-Dec-84 15:08:06 EST
Article-I.D.: amdahl.675
Posted: Wed Dec  5 15:08:06 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Dec-84 07:46:57 EST
References: <29@rti-sel.UUCP> <674@amdahl.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 52
Xref: watmath net.flame:7110 net.religion:4933

> [Flaming Asteroid]

> I think I would be a bit hesitant to argue against the validity of things
> which are not reproducible.  For example, many historical events have
> occurred which are not reproducible, that I am sure you will agree
> are "valid" i.e the existence of the universe (how many universes have
> you been able to create lately in the laboratory?), and your own
> existence (unless, of course, you believe you are invalid [:-)]).
> 
> Most of the events in the Bible are a written account of an oral
> history which has been handed down for generations.  As is the case
> with most historical events, they are not reproducible, but I wouldn't
> say that they didn't happen.  Most of us believe what we read in the
> history books (granted, they are probably more factually accurate
> than the Bible), and take the information as fact.  Events in the
> Bible can (at this time) be neither proved nor disproved; belief
> in the biblical events is an act of religious faith, which most
> scientists recognize, and have no problems with.

Ah, but there IS corroborative evidence to support some
biblical events (ie., there really was a Pontius Pilate, a Herod, etc).
Biblical history -- that is, tracing historical events mentioned in
the Bible -- is an interesting topic.  A good book in this area
is "Asimov's Guide to the Bible" (sometimes as two books for each
Testament).  Isaac Asimov traces many historical parallels between
Biblical history and other historical records.  Of course, there are
also chronological inaccuracies noted as well.  He also discusses
interesting topics like "what WAS the Star of Bethlahem anyway?"

> You seem to be as "hung up" on your Scientific Dogma as much as your
> counterpart is "hung up" in his religious dogma.  Recognize it for
> what it is, and keep an open mind!  I wouldn't worry about a return
> to Church Domination etc etc.  We all have too much knowledge for
> this to ever happen (my belief only).  It's the Astrologers you have
> to watch out for!

I don't understand why "scientists" argue with religious people.
They are never going to convince each other of their view.  Religion
is based on belief, and is a private experience between one's self
and one's Creator.  Science doesn't DEAL with "Creators" or "Miracles"
or other religious matters.  They are two different world views --
Not incompatable, just different.  Religious persons should not have
to "justify" their beliefs to the satisfaction of a scientist or
anyone else.  Scientists should not expect their facts to obliterate
religious belief.

I believe there is the tao, but I can't demonstrate it to you.
This does not affect my belief.
-- 
Gordon A. Moffett		...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,sun}!amdahl!gam

37 22'50" N / 122 59'12" W	[ This is just me talking. ]