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Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!mhuxn!houxm!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv
From: rjv@ihdev.UUCP (ron vaughn)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: jeff sargent, DON'T READ (kinda' long)
Message-ID: <130@ihdev.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 4-Dec-84 22:32:30 EST
Article-I.D.: ihdev.130
Posted: Tue Dec  4 22:32:30 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Dec-84 02:56:58 EST
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 257


[when's the last time you saw a good flame??  well partner, that's too long!]

/* when i originally wrote this flame i said, naw, don't post it just yet,
   you're upset with the dummy, wait till you cool down.  so i waited, and
   i just read yet ANOTHER stupid article from him.  hell, now i wish i hadn't
   taken it so EASY on him.  i humbly apologize.
 */


       ok, gang, let me do a couple of lines of explaining first:

       although it may look like i'm rambling around a lot and not saying
       much at first, i'm actually setting everything up to make my point, so
       hang in there. in the end i'm gonna' wind up *toasting* jeff sargent,
       shattering everything he believes in, and we're all gonna' have a lot
       of fun along the way!! here goes....

       (here's where i digress for a little bit....hang in there!!) anything
       in life that is worth talking about is...well, it's controversial.
       it's debateable.  people get UPSET, they argue about it.  there's lots
       of topics like this: abortion, church in politics, right wing vs. left
       wing, etc. etc.  but deep down inside, a lot of topics aren't really
       as controversial as they appear.  some things are just fundamentally
       wrong, and you can yell all you want, but it's not going to change
       anything.  here's a quick example that everyone loves to flame about,
       creationism vs. evolution.  all these people think creationism should
       be taught in school as a "science", but get serious.  what the hell is
       a ten year old supposed to think when he goes to his class to learn
       that the earth is 6000 years old, and then an hour later his geography
       teacher shows him a rock and says "...this is from the suchandsuch
       age, it's 1.2 million years old."  somehow that just doesn't swing.
       something is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with the 6000 year old earth theory,
       and all the screaming in the world isn't going to make that rock
       disappear from the teachers hand.  are we supposed to throw out all
       the other sciences (how many sciences can let a 6000 year old earth
       fit in their scheme) just so we can proudly say "the earth was created
       6000 years ago, october 4th, 8:00am (eastern standard
       time)"????????????

       i hope i've gotten my idea across about how some things, although they
       appear highly controversial, can actually have a fundamental flaw in
       their theory. now here comes the fun part.

       JS is fundamentally wrong.  (fundamental having nothing to do with the
       church in this case).  his ideas are stupid. he talks about things he
       knows NOTHING about.  not only does he know NOTHING about them, he
       knows (according to him) EVERYTHING about them.  i read all my "notes"
       off line, so i don't have hundreds of his idiotic sayings on line
       here.  which is just as good - i'm looking at the big picture, not his
       individual foot in his individual mouth for an individual instance.
       when i think back to a typical JS letter, i remember something like
       this:

               "...and although i've never actually experienced this in my
       life, i'm going to pull some obscure pseudo-religious belief
       out of my ass and tell you to apply it to the situation, and
       if you don't, you're going to fry in hell for eternity..."

       think about it... doesn't that sound like a JS letter?   he gives
       REAMS of advice in net.singles, but can he keep a girlfriend (or
       boyfriend, apparently he hasn't decided how god has made up his mind
       yet....)  it's so goddamn dumb!   how could ANYONE actually believe
       that a boyfriend/girlfriend combination who start to live together
       "...increase their chance of having sex..."??  i don't know what rock
       he grew up under, but by the time 99.99132% of the couples i know
       decide to shack up, the whoop-de-doo has already whoop-de-done!

       i could go on giving details of his various articles, but let's not
       make this too long.  his articles come in two basic flavors: the "oh
       pity me, i can't keep a girlfriend, i'm going to open myself up to the
       and get all of your advice, because you care so much for me" or the
       above mentioned: "here's some worthless advice, all made up in my
       pointy little head".  personally, i'm getting sick of his articles.
       not only that, i'm getting sick of having to watch 100 netters come
       out and tell him what a dufus he really is.  it's not the netters
       fault, SOMEONE has to put him in his place.  but does he listen??
       NOOOOO!  does anyone listen to him? HELL NOOOO!!  nobody wants to
       listen to what he says, and he never listens to what we say!!!  what's
       the point in all of this???  sure, i work for ma bell, and i love to
       see nincompoops stir up some net-traffic (thank you for calling at&t),
       but this is too great a price to pay.

       ok, this is it, we've finally come down the REAL reason i'm doing all
       of this flaming, the meat of the article.  JS is obviously one of
       those yo-yo's who will believe anything.  he believes in speaking in
       tongues, he believes couples living together "increase their chance of
       having sex the first time", he believes in this stupid religious thing
       and another, he believes i will live forever in hell, because his
       infinitely merciful god is going to send me there. etc. etc. Etc.
       ETC!!  if he believes all of these stupid things, why, oh why!!! can't
       we get him to believe he should get off the net!!!!!!!  think about
       it, what if by some summation of circumstances, JS says to himself
       "gee, i should stop writing to the net because...." (or if he happens
       to be speaking in tongues  "qeim, z;lwijf j xcaf xlkjqxtu fhvnbaksj
       fjwi,zxcnbiu jfh aklxj wrha....")  all we have to do is fill in the
       ...... part!!  the man is an imbecile.  this should be easy.  you want
       the REAL title of this article??

                  LET'S HELP JEFF SARGENT KICK HIMSELF OFF THE NET

       i didn't want jeff to see it, that's why fooled him with the original
       title.  THERE!  i've said it.  i'll be honest, i've been itching to
       say that for months!!  ha!  ha-ha!!! (insane laughter...)

       ok, i've laid out the ground work, now it's up to YOU GUYS to make it
       comes true.  how?  good question.  i knew i should have thought this
       all the way through before i started typing (but god, when you gotta'
       flame, you GOTTA' FLAME).

       one thing you could do is pretend to take his advice, and then write
       him back about it:

        "...so i did what you advised with with jenny.  i guess you weren't
       kidding about having never been with a live girl before.  she dumped
       me like a rock.  why don't you  go out in forest somewhere and die.

               henry"

       something like that.  make him KNOW that if we actually took his
       stupid advice we'd all be worse off!  see what i mean here?  enough of
       those and he'll have some religious experience or whatever he does and
       say "flzl aljk xlkjwoix."  OOPS, wrong tongue, he'd say "gosh, i have
       made life worse for another human being.  as a punishment, i will now
       ban myself from the net." (if it were only so easy....)

       another thing you could do is to simply point out he doesn't have the
       slightest damn idea what he's talking about.  people have done this a
       little bit on the net, but he hasn't quite caught on:

       "....and if you ever DO make love to a turtle, then, and ONLY THEN
       will i listen to your advice on the matter!!!

               tommy"

       see what i mean here.  ONLY JS would come out with very strong
       opinions on something he knows NOTHING about, so if we tell him we
       only want to here about things he has DONE, not heard about or thought
       about, then what the hell can he write about???  sure, we'll get lots
       of letters like:

       "...al zxvl w. aj sl jvzxcoij we faslkj zvxcj a;j bvbn jhnf vbxkjl afj
       vxczl;j nf vxcczkj fasj vj;lxcllnvxjkn kjhv vxckjfdsad sj.

               jeff"

       because of his expertise in the area, but what the hell, if you rot13
       most of the "speaking in tongue" letters you can figure out most of
       the words anyway.

       let's see, what else...... oh yes!  almost forgot.  if you see him
       making up some stuff and hiding it behind some pseudo-religious stuff
       "...and it is WRONG to drink diet coke, because god made coke, and man
       took the sugar away, and this has ruined one of gods things, you must
       drink regular coke..." (jesus, i can sound just like him!!), anyway,
       when you hear these REALLY stupid arguments (the ones that you take
       down the hall so your buddys can have a laugh to, i know i do...),
       send him a real quick snappy letter just pointing out at least one
       thing wrong in his article:

        "...but god made diet coke too, shit-head.


                         say jeff, why don't you kick yourself off the net,

                                       cindy

       notice the subtle sign off, slightly, *ever so slightly*, getting the
       idea across to him.

       there's one other thing you can do, and that's to occasionly actually
       honest-to-god believe everything he says, and THEN some.  make HIM feel
       like he's going to fry in hell for a change, not only will he kick
       himself off the net, he'll SHAME himself off the net for being in the
       presence of one so pure as yourself.

        "....i too try not to go outside, because of the sin all about. in
       fact, i have never breathed air, since air is unpure, and i would be
       sharing it with heathens and sinners and net-people.  i live in little 
       space suit, inside a plastic bubble, with my parents - celibate sam and 
       the virgan ethel, i was, of course, an immaculate conception.
       i suppose you were the product of a natural child birth. (aggggh!)
       i'm surprised you've gone this long without taking your life, or at
       least taking yourself off the net.

                               may you fry in hell forever, scum,

                                       percy

       again, notice how subtle percy is being.  JS will think he's having
       one of his normal conversations, but those little messages will keep
       hedging at him, "get off the net...Get Off The Net....GET THE HELL OF
       THE GODDAMN NET!!!"

       one more case:  if let's say, for example, you read your net stuff for
       a day, and JS didn't say ONE thing.  NOTHING.  what do you do?  do you
       just say "thank god i gave the ol' n key a rest??"  hell no.  send him
       a letter, let him know what a nice day it was without him in your
       life!!

        ".....and the cookies should be there by USnail in a few days.  just
        my way of saying "thanks for not injecting your idiotic ideas into my
        day".  say, i hear china is lovely this time of the century, ever
       think of moving there??

                                  that is, if china isn't on the net.....,

                                                       judy

       (i know *I'D* like him in china)

       ok, i think that about wraps it up.  i'm NOT advocating letter bombing
       the guy with lots and lots of garbage (not that turnabouts-fair-play
       would apply in this case!)  just keep those subtle hints and reminders
       everywhere, he's bound to catch some holy-spirit or whatever and
       finally realize for OUR good he should get off the net.  i don't
       anyone screaming and yelling that "ron kicked JS off the net" or
       bullshit like that.  i want JS to kick himself off the net.  a very
       big difference.  i also don't want him to go off and pout in a corner
       with a "nobody likes me" attitude.  sure, it's true, i don't think
       anyone on the net does like him, but let's not tell him that.  i want
       to make this a nice clean break, both sides happy.

       there.  i've said enough!!  you know the mission.  you know our goals.
       i think with a group effort, this can work!!  let's get out there and
       send those cards and letters, drop those subtle hints, let him know
       how much (0) his advice means to you, and above all, be nice about
       it.(that was my disclaimer line, in case someone gets upset with me!!)



	       first he leaks the AI-project story to the net, and now this.
	       what are we gonna' do with him????  -at&t management

               ron    (replies to ...!ihnp4!ihdev!rjv)


       ps:  i recommend putting one of these lines in your .signature:

               JS must go         
	       i know JS is wrong         
	       i want to stamp out JS in your lifetime         
	       a day without JS is like a poundcake without a muffler         
	       a JS a day just about ruins it
               where'd you hear that? JS?? har-har         
	       quit laughing!  JS said it was true! i said quit laughing!!
	       cwkh  klv k zxz koefjh al jh sh eroq akj hx alkjh w akfh vhxk! 
	       "two JSs are walking down the road, one turns to the other one 
	       and says "your shirt is a sin", and the other one didn't listen."
	       i hate JS         
	       a net without JS is like a child without a nuclear reactor  
	       with your help, we CAN stop JS
	       say jeff, why don't you leave the net?

pps: none of the typos are mine.  i ran this through typo(3).  it inserts a
couple of normal "human looking" typos, so you can't be blamed for ANY of
them.  % cat flame.JS.jerk | typo > flame.JS.jerk.typo