Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site utah-gr.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!philabs!pwa-b!utah-gr!donn From: donn@utah-gr.UUCP (Donn Seeley) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Re: Re: 3rd world savages Message-ID: <1265@utah-gr.UUCP> Date: Wed, 5-Dec-84 02:54:55 EST Article-I.D.: utah-gr.1265 Posted: Wed Dec 5 02:54:55 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 9-Dec-84 02:43:25 EST References: <432@fisher.UUCP> Organization: CS Dept., University of Utah Lines: 43 From David Rubin: Nice theory that the colonial powers are responsible for third world civil wars by playing up animosities between various factions. Let's conduct a quick thought experiment to check it. If this were indeed the case, it would be expected that third world countries without lengthy domination by colonial powers would be relatively free of factional violence. There are a few of those countries, (e.g. Ethiopia, Thailand), and they appear as violent as the third world in general. Thus, we can conclude that the EVIDENCE does not warrant assigning the blame exclusively to Imperialism. Assuming my argument is the one being discussed here, I want to say first that I never claimed that the blame for factional violence belongs 'exclusively to Imperialism.' I simply said that imperialism aggravates post-independence violence. Perhaps I should make it clear that the kind of violence I am referring to is the kind of massive bloodshed that makes people go out and kill their neighbors because they belong to a different religion or political party; society goes temporarily insane and people get butchered right and left. The kind of violence based on regional differences has gone on for centuries and will undoubtedly continue as long as men make war. Societies often fight each other, but they typically don't commit suicide; it's the latter kind of violence that seems to be the result of colonialism. To take one of your examples, Thailand has suffered from the violence of secessionist hill tribes in the north and secessionist Malays and Chinese in the south, but it has avoided the mass slaughter that took place in Indonesia during and especially at the end of Sukarno's 'presidency', or the bloodbaths in Bangladesh or Cambodia or Uganda or Zaire, etc. Thailand is far safer than any of its neighbors. It seems to me that Ethiopia has suffered mainly from secessionists in Eritrea and the Ogaden, but I don't know as much about the country. I notice you didn't mention Japan or Tonga or Nepal in your examples... I will agree that it's easy to oversimplify these problems, and I perhaps I have done so to a small degree, but these responses are attempting to treat the extreme oversimplification of the original postings... Donn Seeley University of Utah CS Dept donn@utah-cs.arpa 40 46' 6"N 111 50' 34"W (801) 581-5668 decvax!utah-cs!donn