Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ttidcb.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!mcnc!philabs!ttidca!ttidcb!robertsb From: robertsb@ttidcb.UUCP (Robin Roberts) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Bastille... actually about gun control Message-ID: <222@ttidcb.UUCP> Date: Thu, 6-Dec-84 11:15:34 EST Article-I.D.: ttidcb.222 Posted: Thu Dec 6 11:15:34 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 9-Dec-84 06:24:26 EST References: <> Reply-To: robertsb@ttidcb.UUCP (Robin Roberts) Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. (CitiCorp), Santa Monica Lines: 113 Summary: >From: ttidca!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!hpda!fortune!amdcad!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-fremen!ryan Mon Dec 3 15:20:2 >Jeff Hull says (quoting the Official NRA Cliche Handbook): >> To repeat a simple truth, guns do not kill people, PEOPLE KILL >> PEOPLE. (No? Really? You mean to tell me that hammer built that >> house? (:-) > No, the hammer did not build the house alone. However, try banning >hammers and see how many houses get built (hint: you don't see too many >brick houses built these days :-). > Also (and this is a point which doesn't receive much attention), it >is psychologically much easier to kill with a gun than with a knife. You >don't have to get too close to the victim (no blood on your hands), and it's >almost as if you're not directly attacking them at all - you pull a trigger >here, the victim falls down over there. Plunging a knife into someone or >beating their head in is much more difficult to do, both physically and >psychologically. This argument is really getting quite ridiculous. There are plenty of very violent criminals in our society who are perfectly overjoyed at plunging a knife into someone else with their bare hands. It remains true that the average citizen should have access to the means to defend himself from this violent people and the fact remains that guns are the most efficient and effective tool to SAVE lives, namely your own! > Finally, I'd like to ask what good a gun really does a law-abiding >citizen? You may say it's for self-defense, but the fact remains that if >it gets used at all, it will be for >A. The shooting of a family member or friend either accidentally ("Honestly, >officer, I didn't know it was loaded...") or in the heat of the moment ("You >two-timing no-good *&($*$..."). So will knives, clubs, and bare hands, despite cute sayings, guns do not cause violence. They are merely tools. One of my favorite statistics comes from the anti-handgun people, they frequently claim that the number of handguns in America is between 40 million and 200 million. Well this statistic can be turned around against the argument, because with the homicide rates we can calculate that greater than 99.9% of all handguns ARE being used legally. >B. Against you by a burglar (you know, the guy who it was going to protect >you from). Not that common, criminals frequently bring their own weapons. This is a silly excuse not to defend yourself. What are you going to do? Trust the criminal not to bring a weapons?? :-) This isn't a nuclear freeze discussion! :-) :-) >C. If you do get to it first, the burglar is not likely to waste time in >preventing you from using it. Huh? >D. Ah yes, there is a slim possibility of your actually using it against a >burglar. Of course, this means you will go to prison for manslaughter (or >justifiable homicide if you're lucky). Please remember, burglary is not >a capital crime in this country. It is legal to use deadly force when you are in reasonable fear for your life, the life of another or grave bodily harm. This is the only time when deadly force would be used by any moral person. The publication of the NRA for years reprinted newspaper articles from across the country of incidents where citizens legally and responsibly used firearms to defend themselves and their families against criminals. For five years they even restricted articles to those where the citizen didn't injure or kill the felon. They never ran out of incidents to cite. > I still don't know of any valid justification for the ownership >of handguns by law-abiding citizens. The police can not protect you. You must protect yourself. Court decisions have even held that police departments are not responsible when they fail to protect you. You MUST be responsible for your own safety. Whether or not firearms are a part of your program is a personal decision and most definitly not one to be taken lightly. I have frequently advised people that it is a decision requiring much thought and preparation. But I surely don't want someone telling me I don't have that decision "for my own good". There is little difference between this guy and moral majority people who would take away my right to reproduction choice. > Oh, I almost forgot NRA top 10 cliche #2: If you outlaw guns, only >outlaws will have guns. Well, as I've tried to point out above, no one else >really has any need for guns anyway. At first, it would be true. However, >it would make it much harder for new outlaws to get guns and for old outlaws >to replace their guns, and in time the number of guns and the resultant >bloodshed would diminish. Isn't ignorance a sad thing? In truth criminal acts will continue to go on in our world until we address the problem of criminal behavior not something so meaningless as a neutral tool. Crime has actually dropped in the last few years. A new gun control act? Of course not. Merely a drop in the population most likely to commit criminal acts. Treat diseases, not symptoms. > Mike Ryan, DEC, Merrimack, NH >Need I say it? The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those >of DEC, its employees, its customers, residents of New Hampshire, or any >Celtics fans. Nor most especially me, don't compromise my safety with your cute concepts with no reality reference. -- Robin D. Roberts (213) 450 9111 x 2916 TTI Zone V4 aka Buskirk the Valerian 3100 Ocean Park Blvd Death to Tyrants ! Santa Monica, CA 90405 UUCP: ..!ucbvax!ihnp4!vortex!ttidca!ttidcb!robertsb or {cadovax,flick,philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex,wtux2}!ttidca!ttidcb!robertsb or ttidca!ttidcb!robertsb@RAND-UNIX.ARPA