Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ucla-cs.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!mhuxn!houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!amdcad!decwrl!decvax!ittvax!dcdwest!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!cepu!ucla-cs!reiher From: reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: dark ages Message-ID: <2535@ucla-cs.ARPA> Date: Sun, 2-Dec-84 17:33:40 EST Article-I.D.: ucla-cs.2535 Posted: Sun Dec 2 17:33:40 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 5-Dec-84 00:32:26 EST References: <728@oliven.UUCP> Reply-To: reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP (Peter Reiher) Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Lines: 55 >Yes, >I know that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and its hierarchy were >creationists and promulgated the Inquisition which was in large part >the cause of the dark ages. However, it was not that they believed >that God created the universe that motivated any of that (misguided) >endeavor. Uh, wait a minute, I've just gotten a misuse of terms interrupt. The Inquisition was a direct response to the Reformation. Pope Paul III declared the Inquisition in 1542. As commonly used, the Dark Ages refer to the period between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance, which started around the 14th century. Now, to be sure, there was significant persecution of heretics during the Dark Ages. However, there was not significant persecution of scientists during this period, because the general chaos of the age and the pervading influence of the church made non-ecclesiatical learning almost extinct. No real scientists showed up in this period until Roger Bacon, in the 13th century. Bacon was persecuted, but more for unorthodox religious views than his scientific activities. I should also mention that the major religious figures of the Reformation would have had little sympathy for anything other than creationism. After all, the Protestants were the ones who claimed that the Bible was the only source of religious doctrine. I just can't imagine Luther or Calvin sagely nodding their heads and saying, "Yes, evolution sounds right to me." In fact, the creationists are largely Protestant Christians, not Catholics. >( Did the dark ages just happen? > Did many of these well meaning, but frightened, individuals knowingly > help further the development of this ideological holocaust ? > Could thinking people haved stopped it? > Could it happen again? ) No, they didn't just happen. Whether one wishes to consider the Goths and Vandals as "well meaning but frightened individuals" is questionable, but they mostly didn't intend to destroy civilization, and science with it. They just wan't the benefits for themselves, and used force to take them. Unfortunately for all concerned, they contributed to the deluge, instead. "Could thinking people have stopped it?" If they'd thought of great military advances, maybe, but probably not, as barbarian tides were only one of the causes of the fall of Rome, and European civilization with it. Could it happen again? Sure, why not? Books, while more widespread, are just as vulnerable as they were then. But, while the creationists may do a lot of harm, I doubt if they will cause a new Dark Ages. Not to say that the creationists are harmless kooks. Were they in charge, we could be in an extremely unpleasant situation. Whether it would be better or worse than the Dark Ages can be argued. It would certainly be different than the standard definitions of "the Dark Ages", though. Or are the creationists advocating a return to feudalism :-)? -- Peter Reiher reiher@ucla-cs.arpa {...ihnp4,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!reiher