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From: canopus@amdahl.UUCP (Flaming Asteroid)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re:  Poor starving people
Message-ID: <624@amdahl.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 29-Nov-84 12:24:12 EST
Article-I.D.: amdahl.624
Posted: Thu Nov 29 12:24:12 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 30-Nov-84 02:37:05 EST
Distribution: na
Organization: Amdahl Corp, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 52

>>From Frank Dibbell:
>> I don't know if the famine is temporary or not, but starvation is one
>> of nature's ways of population control:  if humans will not maintain
>> their numbers at a level sustainable by the land, nature will do it
>> for them.

>Greg Kuperberg's response:
>This is really ridiculous.  Ever since the invention of the plow we have
>been "playing God."  The whole point of human civilization is to alter
>nature.  [...]

My comment:
I would argue that, rather than playing God, we are making use of the
tools He gave us, though perhaps not in the manner He intended (i.e.
did He want us to invent Atom Bombs?)

I disagree with your basic assumption concerning the point of human
civilization.  My conception of the point of human civilization is
to live in harmony with nature.  Nature is a very powerful force,
and sets some pretty strict rules and requirements on us.  If you
don't believe this, talk to anyone who owns oceanfront property, and
ask them how successful seawalls have been in keeping the ocean from
eating their real estate?

By living in harmony with nature, I don't necessarily mean passively.
It is possible to exploit nature to a degree, taking advantage of
agricultural techniques to provide a more abundant food supply, through
irrigation, fertilization, and pest control.  To me, this isn't playing
God; rather it is using our most important tool:  the brain.

>More Greg:
>Furthermore, the plight of Ethiopia is hardly due to nature alone.  Japan
>is far more crowded, and yet so much better off.  [...]

I agree with you.  I recently posted a summary of an analysis of the
Ethiopian situation which appeared in the most recent issue of US NEWS,
which you have probably read by now (things seem to float around for a
few days before landing) which pointed out the major problems, of which
a rapidly expanding population was one.

I still stand by my original statement, that starvation is nature's
way of population control.  I do not know how large a population the
Earth's ecosystem can support, but I can say with some certainty that
it is not infinite.  Therefore, the net result of an ever increasing
population will be starvation.

Harvard, huh?  You a Political Science major by any chance?
-- 
Frank Dibbell  (408-746-6493)          ...!{ihnp4,hplabs,amd,nsc}!amdahl!canopus

[The views expressed herein are not necessarily the views of my
employer, or myself, for that matter]