Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site umcp-cs.UUCP Path: utzoo!decvax!harpo!whuxlm!whuxl!houxm!mhuxj!mhuxm!sftig!sftri!sfmag!eagle!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!godot!harvard!seismo!umcp-cs!mangoe From: mangoe@umcp-cs.UUCP (Charley Wingate) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Justice, responsibility, and belief Message-ID: <1756@umcp-cs.UUCP> Date: Sun, 9-Dec-84 23:37:40 EST Article-I.D.: umcp-cs.1756 Posted: Sun Dec 9 23:37:40 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 11-Dec-84 00:58:44 EST References: <319@pyuxd.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: U of Maryland, Computer Science Dept., College Park, MD Lines: 28 In article <319@pyuxd.UUCP> rlr@pyuxd.UUCP (Rich Rosen) writes: >Unfortunately, Larry's (and others') "understanding" of justice is nothing >more than wishful thinking that there IS a god who administers justice. If >one wants the universe to be just, one has to work to make it so. Instead >of just believing that there's something else that takes care of it for you. >Wishful thinking that the universe has a deity which administers >day-to-day and/or "final" justice, and which enforces rules of personal >responsibility, SOLELY BECAUSE YOU *WANT* THE UNIVERSE TO BE THAT WAY >(apparently you have "problems" with it NOT being that way) *does* *not* >*make* *it* *so*. Wishful thinking is a two-edged sword, Rich; denying a God who is the embodiment of love and justice and resposibility, SOLELY BECAUSE YOU *WANT* THE UNIVERSE TO BE THAT WAY (and you clearly have problems with it NOT being that way) *does* *not* *make* *it* *so*. For your information, Rich, I do not believe that the universe is just. Both Judaism and Christianity agree: the world is not just. Maybe you've lapsed into some sort of pantheism, but we do not equate God with the universe; neither is God in the universe, any more than the programmer is in his program or the musician is in his music. Frankly, Rich, this is getting very tiresome. It would save us many megabytes of needless output if you would go and find something out about Christian and Jewish positions on these issues before you start making pronouncements about our beliefs. Charley Wingate umcp-cs!mangoe