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From: reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: dark ages
Message-ID: <2535@ucla-cs.ARPA>
Date: Sun, 2-Dec-84 17:33:40 EST
Article-I.D.: ucla-cs.2535
Posted: Sun Dec  2 17:33:40 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 5-Dec-84 00:32:26 EST
References: <728@oliven.UUCP>
Reply-To: reiher@ucla-cs.UUCP (Peter Reiher)
Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department
Lines: 55

>Yes,
>I know that the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and its hierarchy were
>creationists and promulgated the Inquisition which was in large part
>the cause of the dark ages.  However, it was not that they believed
>that God created the universe that motivated any of that (misguided)
>endeavor.

Uh, wait a minute, I've just gotten a misuse of terms interrupt.  The 
Inquisition was a direct response to the Reformation.  Pope Paul III declared
the Inquisition in 1542.  As commonly used, the Dark Ages refer to
the period between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance, which started around
the 14th century.  Now, to be sure, there was significant persecution of
heretics during the Dark Ages.  However, there was not significant persecution
of scientists during this period, because the general chaos of the age and
the pervading influence of the church made non-ecclesiatical learning almost
extinct.  No real scientists showed up in this period until Roger Bacon, in
the 13th century.  Bacon was persecuted, but more for unorthodox religious
views than his scientific activities.

I should also mention that the major religious figures of the Reformation
would have had little sympathy for anything other than creationism.  After
all, the Protestants were the ones who claimed that the Bible was the only
source of religious doctrine.  I just can't imagine Luther or Calvin sagely
nodding their heads and saying, "Yes, evolution sounds right to me."  In fact,
the creationists are largely Protestant Christians, not Catholics.


 >( Did the dark ages just happen? 
 >  Did many of these well meaning, but frightened, individuals knowingly
 >  help further the development of this ideological holocaust ? 
 >  Could thinking people haved stopped it?
 >  Could it happen again?  )

No, they didn't just happen.  Whether one wishes to consider the Goths and
Vandals as "well meaning but frightened individuals" is questionable, but
they mostly didn't intend to destroy civilization, and science with it.
They just wan't the benefits for themselves, and used force to take them.
Unfortunately for all concerned, they contributed to the deluge, instead.
"Could thinking people have stopped it?"  If they'd thought of great
military advances, maybe, but probably not, as barbarian tides were only
one of the causes of the fall of Rome, and European civilization with it.
Could it happen again?  Sure, why not?  Books, while more widespread, are
just as vulnerable as they were then.  But, while the creationists may do
a lot of harm, I doubt if they will cause a new Dark Ages.

Not to say that the creationists are harmless kooks.  Were they in charge,
we could be in an extremely unpleasant situation.  Whether it would be better
or worse than the Dark Ages can be argued.  It would certainly be different
than the standard definitions of "the Dark Ages", though.  Or are the
creationists advocating a return to feudalism :-)?
-- 

					Peter Reiher
					reiher@ucla-cs.arpa
					{...ihnp4,ucbvax,sdcrdcf}!ucla-cs!reiher