Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 larry 2/4/84; site hlwpc.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!mhuxh!hlexa!hlwpc!cb
From: cb@hlwpc.UUCP (Carl Blesch)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.flame
Subject: Re: Flame: Sargent's theory of homosexuality
Message-ID: <434@hlwpc.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 29-Nov-84 13:42:51 EST
Article-I.D.: hlwpc.434
Posted: Thu Nov 29 13:42:51 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 30-Nov-84 07:17:56 EST
References: <1344@ihuxq.UUCP>, <1222@dciem.UUCP> <91@cadre.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Short Hills, NJ
Lines: 45

>> aren't unborn children free of sin?

>Not according to the so-called "Christians" they're not!

Also not according to "real" Christians (there's those funny
quotation marks again, Paul!).  Christians believe
that all persons (from the moment of conception) are by nature
sinners.  Everyone inherits this sin condition as a result of Adam's fall.
The only person who can claim exception to this is Jesus.

>I think most schools of thought still hold that an unbaptized
>baby goes to hell, or at least "limbo".  Wonderful!

Maybe Roman Catholic schools of thought do, and maybe even some others.
But I can't be sure that *most* schools of thought do.
I can only speak for my denomination, Presbyterian, which makes
it very clear that infant baptism is not "magic," and that the
sacrament itself conveys no saving power.  The sacrament is a
symbol of God's acceptance of the child into a covenant family
of believers.  Then thru the nurture of these believers, this child can
come to a point in his/her life where he/she has to personally accept
Christ to inherit eternal life with Him.

At and after this point, a decision against Christ (or a lack of
decision for Christ) will mean eternal separation from God (i.e. hell)
upon earthly death.  But what do we believe happens to a child
(baptized or unbaptized) of believing parents (or even of unbelieving
parents) who loses his/her earthly life before he/she is capable
of making such a decision?
We don't know for sure, but we do believe that God in His infinite wisdom
has worked out His own way to give eternal life to those whom He has
chosen, just as we believe He elected those people who are to
be His since before the beginning of time.  (Any theologians of
Presbyterian persuasion who can confirm or deny the accuracy of
my statements?  If I'm wrong, please correct me.)

This latter point may sound like a wishy-washy copout to some,
but I believe it's the best we can do with our finite knowledge of
God.  The real copout, in my mind, is by those people who aren't
believers in Christ, but because of certain church dogma 
they may remember from their childhood, feel a need to
baptize their newborn "just in case."  Actually, that's not a
copout -- that's superstition!

Carl Blesch