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From: jeffh@brl-tgr.ARPA (Jeff Hanes )
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: dark ages
Message-ID: <6291@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Date: Mon, 3-Dec-84 09:09:29 EST
Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.6291
Posted: Mon Dec  3 09:09:29 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Dec-84 06:24:23 EST
References: <728@oliven.UUCP>
Reply-To: jeffh@brl-tgr.ARPA [ The Fantome Straynger ]
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab
Lines: 61
Summary: 

>My point is the creationists ,while individually peaceful, are part of
>a larger movement that holds the greatest threat to personal liberties
>and civilization that can  possibly be imagined.
>Contemplating the possible emergence of a technological based THEOCRACY
>has got to be the ultimate libertarian nightmare. 
>
>The efforts of these people to force their will via the legislatures, and
>school boards MUST be opposed at all costs.

I feel that your article deserves more than a flame, so I will attempt
to give you a calm, rational response.  I hope this doesn't offend
regular readers of this newsgroup :-) (I also hope it doesn't become
standard practice in net.flame :-) ).

I think your arguments represents more of a danger than the creationists
you fear.  By your statements it appears that you advocate the silencing
of this "dangerous" philosiphy and, by implication, its proponents (i.e.
Christians, in your view).  Before I go further, let's define the bounds
of your statement.  Any devout Jew, Muslim, or Hindu would probably believe
that *some* supernatural force created the universe and all that it holds
(us, in particular).  However your remarks do not seem to be directed at
any other than the Christian element, so I will address you on those grounds.

How does Christianity "hold the greatest threat to personal liberties
and civilizations that can possibly be imagined"?  Few Christians support
any sort of theocracy; it was, in fact, Christians who proposed the
separation of church and state upon which our government was founded.
Most of the writers of our Constitution and Declaration of Independence
were Christian men (does that shock you?) and based their writings on
Christian philosophers.  They knew the dangers of a theocracy and worked
to avoid any such occurence in this country, and to provide freedom for
all.  Iran and the Soviet Union are examples of theocracy in action (yes,
atheism is a religion).  It is illegal and often fatal to be a Christian
there.  Yet muslims and communists are guaranteed freedom of expression
in our country.  Do you want to end that sort of freedom?  If you deny
freedom of expression and religion to Christians, where will it end?
In a repressive, dictatorial regime.  I thought you wanted to avoid
that by your eternal vigilance.

Side note:
>The cost of freedom is eternal vigilantes.
I assume you meant `vigilance', but you may have hit the truth, anyway.
Your type of "freedom" would have government vigilante groups silencing
all opposition to your beliefs.

What "efforts ... to force their will via the legislatures" are you
refering to?  When Christians go before the legislatures, it is to
preserve the freedoms that are supposedly guaranteed by our Constitution.

Christians do not desire to take over the world by force.  We want to
guarantee freedom of religion to *all* men, and then be given the
opportunity to show to the world, by our actions, that Christianity is,
indeed, the truth; bur never, Never, NEVER, to *force* anyone to
accept our beliefs, since becoming a Christian must be an act of
free will.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The  Fantome  Straynger  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
	"There's more to life than off center V-neck T-shirts"

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