Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: Notesfiles $Revision: 1.6.2.17 $; site ea.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!mhuxn!houxm!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!ea!mwm From: mwm@ea.UUCP Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Re: Re: Obituary Message-ID: <22400050@ea.UUCP> Date: Sat, 1-Dec-84 02:45:00 EST Article-I.D.: ea.22400050 Posted: Sat Dec 1 02:45:00 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 4-Dec-84 09:07:35 EST References: <658@sjuvax.UUCP> Lines: 42 Nf-ID: #R:sjuvax:-65800:ea:22400050:000:1944 Nf-From: ea!mwm Dec 1 01:45:00 1984 /***** ea:net.politics / ihuxq!ken / 11:41 pm Nov 26, 1984 */ Sigh, indeed. I've been through this rather often myself. Yes, they *called* themselves "socialist", but that doesn't mean they were. Are the "Scientific Creationists" scientific because they say so? Socialists believe in state control of the means of production. The Nazis never believed this, and of course, not only left the capitalists' empires untouched, but even provided them slave labor. It was rich industrialists like Fritz Thissen and I.G. Farben who bankrolled the Nazi party through its leaner years. Some of them have been doing uninterrupted "business as usual" even up to this day. -- *** *** JE MAINTIENDRAI ***** ***** ****** ****** 26 Nov 84 [6 Frimaire An CXCIII] ken perlow ***** ***** (312)979-7188 ** ** ** ** ..ihnp4!iwsl8!ken *** *** /* ---------- */ Wait a minute. IG Farben (et. al.) bankrolled the Nazis, and in return the Nazis let them decide what to do with the (state-run) production facilities. They even force people to work in them. Sounds typical of where socialism will wind up unless everybody agrees with everybody else. I have a confession to make. Every time somebody on the left pokes at the Nazis (and it's always the left, never the right. Wonder if that means anything?), I put up that facade. The invariable reaction is "they did bad things, and everybody admits it, so they can't be one of us." The reason is, I want to know how to recognize a socialist state *from the outside*. I'll concede that the Nazis and the Soviets are socialist. So how do I tell if a state is socialist? The current offering is: "Socialists believe in state control of the means of production." Sounds like *any* totalitarian state would qualify, including the Soviets and the Nazis. Care to try again? "You may be right, I may be crazy. But I'm just the lunatic you're looking for."