Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ucla-cs.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrb!trwrba!cepu!ucla-cs!wales From: wales@ucla-cs.UUCP Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: Mobil 1, new cars, auto warranties Message-ID: <2521@ucla-cs.ARPA> Date: Sat, 1-Dec-84 18:00:33 EST Article-I.D.: ucla-cs.2521 Posted: Sat Dec 1 18:00:33 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 4-Dec-84 05:39:56 EST Reply-To: wales@ucla-cs.UUCP (Rich Wales) Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Lines: 119 I brought up some issues about synthetic oil in general, and Mobil 1 in particular, a couple of months ago. I have since gathered some more information which the net might be interested in. I own a 1984 Honda Accord LX Hatchback with 5-speed manual transmission. The car is now about 6 months old and has about 4,600 miles on it. After about 600 miles of driving, I changed the oil and the filter and put Mobil 1 synthetic oil in the car. At about 3,000 miles, I replaced the filter only. Two questions arose as a result of what I did: (1) Would the use of a synthetic oil cause the car's manufacturer to try and disclaim the new-car warranty if engine problems occurred? (2) Was 600 miles an insufficient wear-in period before switching to synthetic oil? Might this have resulted in permanent damage or im- pairment to the engine? Would it be advisable to switch back to a conventional oil for a few thousand miles so as to allow wear-in to continue as originally intended by the manufacturer? First, the warranty question. Honda's literature on the 1984 Accord (the warranty manual, owner's manual, and mechanic's shop manual) does not say anything about synthetic vs. conventional oil. All it requires w/r/t oil is that it be SE or SF "fuel efficient" grade, be of a weight determined by a chart in the manuals (according to the temperatures at which the car will be driven), and that oil and filter be replaced at least every 7,500 miles or 7.5 months (whichever comes first). In ex- tremely dusty conditions, or when the car is driven only for extremely short distances and does not have time to warm up, they recommend chang- ing oil and filter every 3,000 miles or 3 months. For the temperatures that prevail year-round in Los Angeles (where I live), the oil-weight chart suggested 10W-30 or 10W-40 weight oil. Mo- bil 1 comes only in a single weight, 5W-30. I discussed the question with one of Honda's customer service people at their west-coast center in Gardena, CA (near L.A.). He in turn checked with one or more in-house experts to be sure he was giving me accurate information. According to the Honda customer service people, Mobil 1 is (repeat, IS) acceptable for use in my car, and does not (repeat, NOT) void my new-car warranty -- with the following caveats: (1) Honda does NOT accept Mobil's claims that their synthetic oil need only be changed once every 25,000 miles or 1 year. To keep my war- ranty in force, I must stick to Honda's 7,500-mile/7.5-month sched- ule for changing oil and filter. The main objections that Honda reportedly has to keeping synthetic oil in the engine for excessive periods are: (a) Although the main component of the synthetic oil may last that long, the various additives may not. (b) The various impurities which collect in the oil need to be flushed out by changing the oil and filter on schedule. I specifically asked about the weight question (since Mobil 1 is not 10W-30 or 10W-40), and was told that 5W-30 oil is considered to be a "better" weight and offers more protection than the recommended 10W- 30 or 10W-40. Hence, Mobil 1 (or any other 5W-30 weight oil) is ac- ceptable for use in my car. (2) Honda has heard of several cases where car owners have experienced increased oil consumption with synthetic oil. It is Honda's opinion that synthetic oils, due to their increased "slipperiness", will tend to leak past the piston rings at a faster rate than regular oil would. Hence, if I use Mobil 1, I should be prepared for greater- than-average oil consumption (they didn't quote me a figure), and I should be especially sure to check the oil level frequently and add oil when necessary. So much for the warranty issue -- at least for Honda. I cannot say any- thing about any other manufacturer, but the following points seem to be generalizable. (Note: I am NOT a lawyer.) (1) Unless the warranty or owner's manual explicitly forbids synthetic oil, you probably cannot have your warranty voided for using Mobil 1 or Amsoil. My understanding of U.S. consumer law is that, if such a prohibition is not in WRITING, it cannot be enforced. (Of course, you might be in for a BIG hassle if the mfr. wants to make life hard for you!) (2) The fact that Mobil 1 is 5W-30 should probably not deter someone from using it, even if the owner's manual recommends only 10W-30. (3) Follow the manufacturer's schedule for changing the oil and filter, even if it seems wasteful with synthetic oil. If you ignore this point, you might as well tear up your warranty booklet. Now, on to the question of whether Mobil 1 is suitable for a brand-new car. I called Mobil's toll-free "oil hotline" (1-800-LUBE-OIL) and spoke to one of their experts. He checked on some points and called me back a few days later. What I gleaned from him was this: (1) It is probably a good idea to use conventional oil during the first 7,500 or 8,000 miles. A certain amount of friction is necessary during the wear-in period; a premature switch to synthetic oil could "glaze" the piston rings and interfere with proper wear-in of the engine. (2) It might have been advisable for me to switch back to conventional oil, but ONLY if I were seeing a prodigiously high oil consumption rate -- such as 1 quart every 500-800 miles. Since I am not going through oil at anything approaching that rate, Mobil says I might as well stick to Mobil 1 now. The Mobil guy also said he had heard a rumor (no details available) to the effect that at least one auto manufacturer was considering filling its crankcases with Mobil 1 when they left the factory! -- Rich Wales UCLA Computer Science Department 3531 Boelter Hall // Los Angeles, CA 90024 // (213) 825-5683 ARPA: wales@UCLA-LOCUS.ARPA UUCP: ...!{cepu,ihnp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!wales