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From: rick@uwmacc.UUCP (the absurdist)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Only a few nuts rape?
Message-ID: <541@uwmacc.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 6-Dec-84 13:36:10 EST
Article-I.D.: uwmacc.541
Posted: Thu Dec  6 13:36:10 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 12-Dec-84 05:47:59 EST
References: <10011@watmath.UUCP> <136@ihu1m.UUCP> <1830@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: rick@uwmacc.UUCP (Rick Keir)
Organization: UWisconsin-Madison Academic Comp Center
Lines: 45
Summary: 

In article <1830@sun.uucp> sunny@sun.uucp (Sunny Kirsten) writes:
>The fact that the question involved "getting caught" implies we're
>talking about the use of force of violence, rather than "friendly
>persuasion" of true enjoyment.  Thus we can say that 1/3 of the male
>population of a certain age category ( a snapshot of the better
>(college) crosssection of "society") has no moral compunction (only
>fear of retribution) about forcibly dominating a woman and using her...
>mail ucbvax\!sun\!sunny decvax\!sun\!sunny ihnp4\!sun\!sunny<

No, we can't say that.  What we can say is that in some fairly unrealistic
experiments (conducted just across the street from here), some college
sophomore males give answers that are exactly what Ed Donnerstein is looking
for (at least, I assume Sophie's original posting was referring to his
work, since he's a big name for this sort of study).  
	Any study like this has great demand characteristics.  First they are
shown pornography;  often violent pornography depicting rape.  Then they 
get to fill out forms about their attitudes.  What do these forms mean?
Not very much.  Most people, if questioned properly, can be induced to 
answer that it is POSSIBLE they could commit awful crimes that in fact
they are totally incapable of in real life.  They even know what answer
the experimenter is looking for, since they just saw films of sexual violence.
	"Hmmm, I did have some small sexual response when I saw her with her
clothes off....maybe I could do this horrible thing....besides, he's 
a psychologist, he must know what he's doing, and it is pretty clear
that he expects people to answer yes, otherwise why is he asking...
I know I've had violent thoughts...oh my GOD, I'd better answer yes...
it's a good thing these experiments are anonymous."
	The relevance of these studies to the real world is tenuous indeed;
they get published only because of the difficulty of getting anything
better for answers.
	(Oh, someone says, another barbarian computer jock sneering at all
social science research).  Not so.  My M.S. is in psychology;  I've 
taught experimental psychology;  and I've published twice in refereed
journals (Behavior Research and Therapy;  Animal Learning and Behavior).
I'm sneering from an informed perspective.  Too many journalists pick
up on Donnerstein's work and write sensationalist articles about what
beasts men are.  It's about time this research got the benevolent 
neglect it deserves.
-- 
TV got it right for once: "Bob, it's all a crock." -- from the Bob Newhart show.
Rick Keir -- MicroComputer Information Center, MACC
1210 West Dayton St/U Wisconsin Madison/Mad WI 53706

{allegra, ihnp4, seismo}!uwvax!uwmacc!rick