Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!mhuxn!houxm!ihnp4!zehntel!dual!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-kirk!williams From: williams@kirk.DEC (John Williams 223-3402) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: The end of it Message-ID: <127@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 3-Dec-84 18:10:10 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.127 Posted: Mon Dec 3 18:10:10 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 5-Dec-84 00:12:02 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 91 I have a friend at work who likes to use a particular quote on occasion. I will present it to you now. The more you stir, the more it stinks. I have been overwhelmed by the activity that surrounds this newsgroup. Sunny once asked me whether or not this was a psyche experiment. I'm afraid it's a case of psyche overkill. I think that alot of psychological crap has been stuffed down Jeff's throat, that the motivation was not necessarily in his best interest. Small wonder he is unwilling to subject himself further into any sort of therapy. The primary focus of therapy is to provide an environment where the client is able to gain some form of emotional experience with minimal risk. I think that all the manure people have been feeding him is only serving to reinforce a foundational belief that psychology is some kind of fucking game, rather than a practice of science. I think the best possible thing to do would be for all those involved to stay away from Jeff, until such time as you find yourself more in agreement. If he indeed has a problem, and I am not as of yet convinced, he will seek help himself. Any attempts on either part to change the fundamental beliefs of the other will only end in tragedy. Jeff does not have to do anything he does not want to do. Period. And neither do any of you. What you are doing, whether you realize it or not, is saying that he needs some kind of help because he has an opinion that is inconsistent with your own. If this difference appears to be unresolvable, then perhaps you should just leave it at that. It appears as though that relationship, be as it is, is divergent, and I see no way that it could result in anything even closely resembling being mutually beneficial. Jeff is a nonconformist. If he wants to stay that way, he should be prepared to accept the fact that he is going to have trouble relating to people. He should be with people who will not be so critical of his beliefs, blaming them on something that is supposedly wrong with him, but with those who show stronger similarities. If he finds these people rare, he will have to choose for himself which he finds more important. Something I think Jeff should know, is that if he wishes emotional counseling, with people more tolerant, he should remember that psychological therapists are PROFESSIONALS. They are very careful not to submit their clients to anything they don't want. Their success depends on your success. There is kind of a falsehood that manifests itself with many people, that is that a therapist performs some kind of `` surgery '' to your mind. On the contrary, it is the amateurs that slice up all sorts of things that are better off left alone. A professional therapist is not there as a doctor as much as he's there as a teacher, to teach you about yourself. To give you a little starting experience in identifying your emotions. He is not there to change you in any way. He will give you the tools you need to work on your own problems. And he has the experience to do so. He will try to make sure your mind comes through intact. With the rise of popular psychology and quack diagnosis, it is increasingly important to understand what it really is, and not to base your ego on what others may misinform you. A really good therapist makes the session fun. And that's what it should be. It is primarily an educational experience, no one puts you under a fucking microscope. The relationships you have should be recognized as constructive or destructive. Only you know enough to decide. Jeff needs amateur counseling like another hole in the head. My advice is to lay off the trash in pursuit of some philanthropic ideal, and get on with whatever lives you do have. If Jeff gets lonely, that's his business. It may be the only way he will be able to identify a problem, if it exists. People have been known to go more or less their own separate ways. If there is little that you agree on, little you will ever agree on, then why bother? If a cause becomes more important than a relationship, then perhaps that person should be free to promote whatever that cause may be elsewhere. In any case, I see no reason to attack. From what I have read in this newsgroup, without the supposed benefit of meeting him personally, I see no malicious intent. Perhaps it is to my benefit in not knowing him that I can give an objective opinion. I only know what I have seen posted, and what I have received in the mail, and think that this whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Myself included. Let everyone have their say, no matter how ridiculous. We ultimately solve our own problems. Now back to being silly. ----{ john williams }---- < Don't forget to vote for Village Idiot > (DEC E-NET) KIRK::WILLIAMS (UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-kirk!williams (ARPA) williams%kirk.DEC@decwrl.ARPA williams%kirk.DEC@Purdue-Merlin.ARPA