Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84 chuqui version 1.7 9/23/84; site nsc.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!nsc!chuqui From: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Zonker T. Chuqui) Newsgroups: net.news.group Subject: Re: "mod.fred + net.fred" Message-ID: <1816@nsc.UUCP> Date: Sat, 3-Nov-84 17:12:27 EST Article-I.D.: nsc.1816 Posted: Sat Nov 3 17:12:27 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 4-Nov-84 05:14:58 EST References: <370@ucsfcgl.UUCP> <> <1786@nsc.UUCP> <> Reply-To: chuqui@nsc.UUCP (Zonker T. Chuqui) Organization: The Warlocks Cave, Western Annex Lines: 62 Summary: >>WEll, Ken, as soon as you have this neat feature implemented we'll be MORE >>than happy to use it. >>Ah, yes. Silly me. I suggested a feature without having yet >implemented it. I apologize. Next time I like an idea, FIRST I will >implement it, THEN I will suggest it. This makes so much sense, I'm >surprised I didn't see it before. > Ok, the sarcasm was a bit on the heavy side, but there is a valid point in there. Too many people out there seem to think that Usenet occurs by magic, and that good suggestions get implemented by magic somewhere. Well, unfortunately, it isn't that way-- even plaid warlocks have limitations on what they can do with their time. I DO believe that your idea has merit and I'd like to see more about it-- reality says that waiting to get it implemented, debugged, and installed on enough sites to make it worth using is a serious mistake. We need to not only plan for the future, but work with what we have now. What we have now is 2.10.2 and moderated groups, and there are problems with them (a number of sites don't seem to be forwarding mod.all right now-- I'm going to attempt to track them down in the next couple of weeks). There are a group of people, mostly insane I'd guess, who put in a lot of their spare time and effort to try and keep Usenet running smoothly and make it better. People like Mark Horton, like Lauren, and Rick, and Spaf and myself. We all happen to be human, which means we need to eat and sleep and occasionally we screw up, but the common denominator is that we care about the net and are willing to do what we think should be done for the sake of the net. I don't know what the rest of them see, but I know that I spend a lot of my time reading articles and mail from people screaming and complaining about all of the problems that the net has (it is far from perfect)-- relatively rarely is this criticism constructive, rarer still is there any attempt at putting together a solution. A lot of what I see is 'This is bogus, someone needs to fix it so I can read net.jokes again.'A Much of the time, that someone is Mark, or Rick, or Lauren, or Spaf, or, well you get the idea. So, if my sarcasm weighs a little heavy, I'm sorry. I spend a lot of time seeing people screaming about problems, but few of them offering solutions-- they'd rather read net.flame. I'm not looking for fan mail-- heaven forbid! I have enough trouble answering all the hate mail I get, besides I learn a lot more from the hate mail about what IS wrong and what can be fixed. What I'd like to see is a little more understanding from the real world out there about how much work DOES go into usenet, and why it we don't always get the latest whizbangs into the software a week after people decide it's a great idea-- sometimes you have to work with what you have, problems and all, and sometimes you simply can't wait for the whizbang to be implemented. >Seriously, do you really think I should just dive in and implement a >feature without having other people comment? No, but I think it SHOULD be followed up-- the idea has definite merits. But we should realize that usenet is a volunteer effort, and any effort takes time. I don't think we really want to wait around for things like these to be implemented-- we need to make the best use of what we already have. chuq -- From the Department of Bistromatics: Chuq Von Rospach {cbosgd,decwrl,fortune,hplabs,ihnp4,seismo}!nsc!chuqui nsc!chuqui@decwrl.ARPA I'd know those eyes from a million years away....