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From: spaf@gatech.UUCP (Gene Spafford)
Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.religion
Subject: Re: Proposal for net.religion subgroups
Message-ID: <10721@gatech.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 8-Nov-84 09:25:36 EST
Article-I.D.: gatech.10721
Posted: Thu Nov  8 09:25:36 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Nov-84 03:41:58 EST
References: <35@tove.UUCP> <19@cmu-cs-k.ARPA> <290@qantel.UUCP>
Organization: The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech
Lines: 83
Xref: gatech net.news.group:1753 net.religion:4043

(Let's create two new groups: net.religion.zen and
net.religion.notzen.  Of course, the two would be linked together so
that anything posted to one would also post to the other.  But no one
ever needs to post to it.)

I've been reading this discussion for quite a while and it's about time
we either resolved it or moved it to a more appropriate group (out of
net.news.group, at least).  Suggestions: net.philosophy and net.flame.

My particular view is that if one is sure of one's faith, it is
possible to quietly live it with confidence and strength, thus
providing oneself with not only a sense of security, but providing
others with a good example and statement about the quality of the
particular faith.  I believe that people who feel the need to comdemn
other beliefs, constantly try to "convert" others, and spend a great
deal of their time loudly proclaiming their piety must be rather
insecure in their faith, else they wouldn't need to spend so much time
reinforcing it.

But that's just my view.

However, as it applies to the net, there are some points to be made.
First of all, there is a small but vocal contingent of "born-again"
and/or evangelical Christians on the net (as in almost any other
American group, these days).  I see it is this group that is interested
in a separate newsgroup.  There are many other "Christians" on the net,
but more in the sense of traditional Christianity, although they may
not be very vocal in net.religion.  For that reason, I am against
naming any subgroup "net.religion.christian".  I think another name
should be proposed for such a group.

And yes, I think there should be such a group.  There has been enough
discussion generated by all this to show that there is both an audience
and an interest.  If nothing else, the group can contain further
discussion on its Creation (if you claim that the appearance of such a
newsgroup is simply an aspect of the net evolving, you are doomed to
net.flame for all eternity :-).

Any "net." newsgroup is open for everyone to post to.  This has always
been the case.  By the very nature of the news, you cannot restrict
postings to "net" groups except by convention (viz., net.women.only).
If non-believers wish to post to the group, let them.  View it as a
test of your faith (if you are a believer).  If you're not a believer,
you will find the group rather boring after a while (unless you like to
continue to bait/abuse others of differing beliefs).  The mailing list
will undoubtedly continue, and the public is in no position to comment
on the correctness of content of private mail -- unless, as Tim noted,
it is being sent on publicly supported machines or networks.

We have a net.religion.jewish to allow people to ask questions about
the Jewish religion and share items of interest to other Jewish
netters. It is also a forum to discuss Jewish history and heritage.
Should any other religious groups have a significant number of active
netters, we should consider, without argument, a ghetto for them too.
Likewise with the evangelical Christians.  They need a place to discuss
common interests and discuss the Christian heritage (like torturing and
killing people of different faiths, book-burning, and war in the name
of God. A "net.religion.islam" could be used for the same thing. 1/2
:-).

But seriously, I am willing to create such a newsgroup as long as it
doesn't bear the name "christian" on it -- that implies more people and
issues than the group seems intended for.  I'm not sure about a
"net.religion.newage" -- is there a sufficient number of readers to
support such a group?  Or would "net.religion" be enough, once some
quantitiy of the pro/anti-christian stuff gets moved to its own
newsgroup?  (I don't (and won't) read net.religion.)



If the content of this note has offended anyone, my apologies.  I have
had some bad experiences with certain religious groups, and it has
created a rather permanent (and negative) impression.  I don't care
what you believe, and I applaud you if your faith helps you find peace
and a better life, but I despise people who attempt to push their
beliefs on me.  That's why I want to get this discussion resolved and
out of net.news.group before it turns into (more of) a religious
argument.
-- 
Off the Wall of Gene Spafford
The Clouds Project, School of ICS, Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA 30332
CSNet:	Spaf @ GATech		ARPA:	Spaf%GATech.CSNet @ CSNet-Relay.ARPA
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