Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83 (MC830713); site klipper.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!wjh12!harvard!seismo!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep From: biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) Newsgroups: net.ai,net.nlang Subject: Re: natural language deficiencies? Message-ID: <349@klipper.UUCP> Date: Thu, 1-Nov-84 05:27:39 EST Article-I.D.: klipper.349 Posted: Thu Nov 1 05:27:39 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Nov-84 21:52:12 EST References: <6124@mcvax.UUCP> <1175@dciem.UUCP> Reply-To: biep@klipper.UUCP (J. A. "Biep" Durieux) Organization: VU Informatica, Amsterdam Lines: 40 [] In article <1175@dciem.UUCP> mmt@dciem.UUCP (Martin Taylor) writes: >====================== >There is no way, reasonable or not, to render Dutch 'gezellig' into English. >This is also SURELY a language deficiency. >====================== >I was under the impression that "gezellig" was close >to cosy, comfortable, unconstrained and home-like. Is this anything like? I wouldn't say it is "close to" the words you mentioned. It often is, but it isn't that. E.g. it can suddenly be "gezellig" when one of two people on an inhabitated is- land, suddenly reveals a bar of chocolade and shares it with his companion. They may be almost starving, but they eat it with little bits, and talk about the taste, and where, in which shop ("You remember, the old man who used to buy lickorice over there?"), one can buy the best, etc. My English isn't that good, but the whole situation doesn't sound like "cosy", or "home-like", or such. The Dutch word "gezellig" is derived from the same stem as "gezelschap", which means both "the group around you" and "the mutual affection within the group". However, it has got a special meaning too because of the fact that the word is often used with respect to going and drinking coffee together at eleven o'clock in the mor- ning. (The word "coffee" itself is highly associated with "gezellig" too: I don't drink coffee, but nobody would invite me "Come, and drink chocolate milk with us!", however that is what I actually do. The word "coffee" *has* to be mentioned to commumicate the idea. The Dutch expression for "Our house stands always open for you" is "The coffee is always ready for you".) -- Biep. {seismo|decvax|philabs}!mcvax!vu44!botter!klipper!biep I utterly disagree with everything you are saying, but I am prepared to fight myself to death for your right to say it. --Voltaire