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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!ittvax!bunker!garys
From: garys@bunker.UUCP (Gary M. Samuelson)
Newsgroups: net.news.group,net.religion
Subject: Re: Re: Proposal for net.religion subgroups
Message-ID: <610@bunker.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-Nov-84 09:20:29 EST
Article-I.D.: bunker.610
Posted: Tue Nov  6 09:20:29 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 8-Nov-84 04:17:07 EST
References: <1619@ucf-cs.UUCP> <967@houxm.UUCP> <1639@ucf-cs.UUCP>
Organization: Bunker Ramo, Trumbull Ct
Lines: 74

When we first discussed having a Christian mailing list,
someone suggested that it would be viewed with suspicion.
I didn't think so; what possible objection could there be
to a list of private individuals who wish to communicate
privately with each other?  Well, I was wrong; it seems
that, at least in our case, having such a list is Nazi-like,
according to Yirmiyahu BenDavid, and even illegal, according
to Tim Maroney (say, isn't he the one who complained about
being censored?)

YBD> In addition to mailing my response, I feel a response is in order
YBD> regarding the notion of net.religion.christian being redundant
YBD> vis-a-vis a christian mailing list. 

YBD> A christian mailing list is, in comparison with a net forum open
YBD> at least to public ears and monitoring (if not to their keyboards),
YBD> a rather secretive alternative.  Such a secretive alternative as a
YBD> SUBSTITUTE FOR a public forum strikes me as something out of
YBD> pre-WWII Germany and makes me, as a Jew, very nervous.

You think, do you, that you have a right to monitor other people's
private communications?  Talk about pre-WWII Germany...

YBD> There are
YBD> many christian mailing lists, jewish mailing lists, etc. and that
YBD> is to be expected.... but why is a christian mailing list suggested
YBD> AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO a forum open to public monitoring? Is this to
YBD> be a network where KKK and neo-nazis can spew their obscenities
YBD> without fear of being 'found out'? Well, I don't think so... but,
YBD> on the other hand, we see from such things as the Donahue shows 
YBD> that this is not an unreasonable fear. 

Make up your mind; either accuse us of conspiracy or not.

YBD> It also strikes me as contradictory that christians are fighting
YBD> against having a forum of their own...

We have a forum of our own; the mailing list.  If you really think
we should have a forum "of our own," why do you want to dictate
what form that forum should take?

YBD> that they PREFER to try
YBD> their best to IMPOSE their unjustified presumptions on others
YBD> and that 'discussion' is simply a ruse to give them an excuse
YBD> to do it. If this were not so, they could do it far more effec-
YBD> tively on their own net.

How can we impose anything?  We can't force you to read anything;
we certainly can't force you to believe anything.  Also, why do
you think that we could hold discussions more effectively in a
newsgroup than we can on a mailing list?  We have discussed the
possibility of creating such a newsgroup, if and when the traffic
on the mailing list justified it; but there hasn't been that much
traffic.

YBD> Why is it that I suspected from the outset that christians would
YBD> oppose their own net? Because the notion of IMPOSING their ideas
YBD> on others is an integral part of their religion. As a Jew, I am
YBD> aware of the consequences of this integral element of their
YBD> religion. It has not gone away and is not, even now, very far
YBD> from us.

I thought you had agreed that you wouldn't try to speak for
Christianity.

YBD> Evil prefers the cloak of darkness and secrecy. Uprightness prefers
YBD> the light.

(Proverbs)  We prefer that we not be forced out of net.religion.
You prefer that we go off into our own newsgroup and stop bothering
you.  Which of us is trying to be in the light?

Gary Samuelson
bunker!garys