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From: mario@astrovax.UUCP (Mario Vietri)
Newsgroups: net.motss
Subject: Re: Room for everyone????
Message-ID: <453@astrovax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 24-Sep-84 12:59:10 EDT
Article-I.D.: astrovax.453
Posted: Mon Sep 24 12:59:10 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 26-Sep-84 08:28:29 EDT
References: <3691@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: Princeton Univ. Astrophysics
Lines: 63

Dear netters,

	I have been following the conversation somewhat episodically over 
the last few months, due to problems with local (computer!) 
authorities, but I could not help noticing the extent to which 
the responses to Mr. Arndt and his clones have managed to force 
their way into nearly every single letter written to this group. 
This has now progressed to the point where all of the letters currently
available at my institution in this newsgroup are either written by the 
Arndt Gang, or are replies to them. This situation is not new: 
many of you probably remember that
Arndt managed for some time to disrupt the debate also in net.women, from 
which he was eventually expelled, never to reappear again. It is unlikely,
though, that this will happen here too: differently from that case, now 
Mr. Arndt is persuaded to be waging a Holy War, and nothing we say will
make him desist from it. You all know how impermeable he is to every sort
of argumentation, how uninterested he is in listening, and how badly he has
damaged discussion in this group.
	There are two possible soultions to this problem: the first is what 
was proposed some time ago in net.women, i.e. the creation of a private 
mail group from which any non-constructive contribution could be easily 
excluded. This feminist mail group is now alive and prospering, has received
more than 300 contributions, and the environment is so pleasant that 
quite a number of people have told intimate personal stories. This is a 
possible way out. 
	Alternatively, one may reason as follows: women's movements have 
gained a degree of acceptance which gay-rights movements are very far from
achieving, so that the retreat into a private mailgroup, which would be
quite acceptable for women, is to be considered a political defeat in this
case. Holding the debate in a public forum like this is also a part 
of 'coming out', and we shouldn't allow Mr. Arndt and his clones to shut
evryone up, and lock the closet again.
	I see some pluses in this line of argument. But in this case, 
we should probably accept the obvious: no debate is possible with Mr. Arndt
and the hypocrites who disapprove of his ways and approve of his ideas 
(which ones?) and of his carefully researched data (straight out of 
Jerry Falwell's pocket). We should then propose and enforce a policy of
total neglect of Mr. Arndt, one by which none of his arguments is mentioned
in any contribution, none of his lurid jokes and insinuations are 
answered, none of his clones' support respected.
	This is very different from rejecting debate: it would only
mean restoring this forum to its original function (message # 1):

>Net.motss is designed to foster discussion on a wide variety of topics, such as
>health problems, parenting, relationships, clearances, job security and
>many others.  Gay members of USENET will find this a supportive environment
>for the discussion of issues which have immediate impact on their everyday
>lives.  Those who aren't gay have an opportunity to be informed by the
>discussion, and are encouraged to read the news items and contribute their
>own questions and opinions.
>
>Net.motss is emphatically NOT a newsgroup for the discussion of whether
>homosexuality is good or bad, natural or unnatural.  Nor is it a place
>where conduct unsuitable for the net will be allowed or condoned.
>Rather, like every USENET news group, it is an opportunity for people
>all across the world to express their opinions, exchange ideas, and
>come to appreciate the diversity within the USENET membership.

Please do comment. 

						Mario Vietri
					Princeton University Astrophysics
{allegra,akgua,burl,cbosgd,decvax,ihnp4,kpno,princeton,vax135}!astrovax!mario