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From: yiri@ucf-cs.UUCP (Yirmiyahu BenDavid)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Shabbat electricity (what is work?)
Message-ID: <1588@ucf-cs.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 17-Oct-84 08:39:49 EDT
Article-I.D.: ucf-cs.1588
Posted: Wed Oct 17 08:39:49 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 19-Oct-84 06:23:49 EDT
References: brl-tgr.5198, <348@wxlvax.UUCP>
Organization: UCF, Orlando, FL
Lines: 28

When you say 'it is not permitted', by whom? And what is the real basis
of authority for it? A simple quote from a sage does not satisfy me.
While it may be an upopoular (?) point of view, I do not accept a notion
simply because the sages/rabbis say it is so. For me at least, that is
insufficient grounds. I insist on demonstrating some reasonable grounds
for everything from written Torah. I reject the notion that reason can
be built on other reasons which were built on other reasons, ad
infinitum. I am perfectly willing to grant that you may be correct in
relating to us what the sages permit.  But sages are subject to error,
and it is the Creator I serve, not the sages. The sages served the
Creator just as I do and, conversely, I serve the Creator just like
theyt did. They may have been more learned. On the other hand, they may
also have been mistaken in some matters. Reason and statistics would
seem to argue the likelihood that they were mistaken here and there.
Unlike the pope, they didn't pretend to be inerrant.

Incidentally, when God causes rain on Shabbat, does he contravene His
own Torah (watering grass)? If so, which is imperfect, God or Torah?
Am I alone in thinking that some of these notions are carried out
mechanically to ludicrous extremes? It sometimes seems that these rules
are applied mechanically without the use of the brain, without
questioning their real basis, validity, authority, etc? I'm not being
sardonic nor cutting, I have sincere doubts about what seems to me a
blind acceptance of what the medeival sages decided - and sometimes
based upon what seems to me less than scientific grounds and
questionable religious grounds. I'm not pushing a point here, I'm asking
for opinions from other Jews.