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From: owens@gitpyr.UUCP (Gerald Owens)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: Is this rape?
Message-ID: <275@gitpyr.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 18-Oct-84 18:39:21 EDT
Article-I.D.: gitpyr.275
Posted: Thu Oct 18 18:39:21 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 21-Oct-84 13:35:59 EDT
References: <10400011@acf4.UUCP>, <10400012@acf4.UUCP> <532@rayssd.UUCP>
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
Lines: 54

> I think we're back to an age-old question, which has been answered
> many times on this net and will be answered (again) by me:
> "When does No not mean No?"  "Never."   This applies to more than
> just sex, mind you, but it seems to garner the more emotional reactions
> when it is applied to sex (more specifically, women/girls saying no to
> sex with men/boys).
> 
	Come on!  There's a familiar way young women in their teens
act toward guys:  it's called "playing hard to get".  One essentially
acts as if one doesn't want to make the acquaintance of the guy one
really wants to meet, and it is calculated that such actions are supposed
to act as some sort of "test" or "encouragement" for the guy to actually
overcome the lady's reticence.  I later learned, to my regret, that
many ladies I asked out really wanted to go out with me, but that I took
their "no" as meaning "no", and not "keep trying, I'm testing you to see
how much you want to go out with me."

	Don't take me wrong.  I agree that "no" means "no".  But how
do you expect men to act when they were raised among women who rewarded
their persistence in not seeing their "no" as "no"?  A bit of honesty
between the sexes would go a long way here.

> I know that men have a real fear of being falsely accused of rape, but,
> seriously, how many of you have actually known the type of woman you
> think may do that?

	That's not what I'm worried about.  What worries me are the calls
to loosen the requirements of evidence to bring a conviction against
an accused rapist.  It sometimes appears to me that feminists want
the courts to "just believe us, for we wouldn't bring this sort of thing
against anybody unless it really happened".  Taking the accusation as
prima-facaie evidence that the crime ACTUALLY happened, without taking
ANY steps to actually verify that the crime did happen.  Get a woman just
like JR Ewing, and she just might scream rape to just get rid of some
nasty competitors.  Sorry, but I believe that women are just as capable of
great evil as men are.


> However, misinterpreting what may seem to be conflicting
> signals and then "forging on ahead" even when the woman has said no,
> seems to be a pretty smug "I know what you mean even though you're
> not saying it" solution to the confusion.  When in doubt, why not
> actually believe the woman?

	As I noted before, I DID do that, and wound up with a pretty
barren social life while I was young.  Things don't seem to have
changed at all getting into adulthood either.  I'll just "meekly back off"
and not be a "real man" (as Ken perlow noted in another article).

> 
> --Heather Emanuel {allegra, linus, decvax!brunix} rayssd!hxe

	Gerald Owens
	Owens@Gatech