Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihnp4.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!hou3c!hocda!houxm!ihnp4!cfiaime From: cfiaime@ihnp4.UUCP (Jeff Williams) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Church Discipline Message-ID: <653@ihnp4.UUCP> Date: Thu, 20-Sep-84 12:56:51 EDT Article-I.D.: ihnp4.653 Posted: Thu Sep 20 12:56:51 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 25-Sep-84 08:21:23 EDT References: <905@houxm.UUCP>, <991@akgua.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 41 When speaking of church discipline, everyone so far has talked of "dress codes," and "undesirable people." In the congregation where I am an elder (Missouri Synod Lutheran), you can see dress from coats and ties to blue jeans. But, this is not concerning disipline, this concerns tolerence. Church disipline concerns the unrepentent sinner. Christ speaks of this in Matthew 17:15 (NIV) - "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But, if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." From this passage, we get both the excommunication process, and the "Office of the Keys and Confession." The one problem in applying this procedure is that of determining the "unrepentent sinner." The only criteria that you can use to judge unrepentence is that of "repeat offenders." If I am really repentent, and am truely sorry for sinning, I will do my best not to sin like that in the future. If I can be shown to attempt not to repeat the sin, but "back-slide," I am still repentent. Several months ago, "Leadership" magazine had an article concerning the excommunication of a church member because of adultry. (Actually, two members of the congregation were involved, and both were treated according to Matthew 17.) Church leaders are very reluctent to use this procedure simply because we can never be SURE of what is in a person's heart. Jeff Williams AT&T Bell Laboratories ihnp4!cfiaime