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From: martillo@mit-athena.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Who is a Jew (Mr. Martillo's bark worse than his bite!)
Message-ID: <11@mit-athe.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 26-Sep-84 02:44:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: mit-athe.11
Posted: Wed Sep 26 02:44:50 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 28-Sep-84 04:13:29 EDT
References: <1438@ittvax.UUCP>, <223@fisher.UUCP> <225@mit-athena.ARPA>, <253@fisher.UUCP> <255@mit-athena.ARPA>Re: Who is a Je
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Date: Wed, 26-Sep-84 02:44:50 EDT

w (Mr. Martillo's bark worse than his bite!)
Organization: MIT, Project Athena, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 96

>From ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow) Sun Feb  6 01:28:16 206

>I think Martillo is wondering why less-than-orthodox Jews would
>*WANT* to decide who is a Jew, not stating that they have no right
>to an opinion.  

A  good  point  but not what I am saying.  If a Jews main affiliation is
the Communist party he might help write the party  constitution  but  he
has  no  right to help choose the Jewish legal system.  Likewise, Jewish
communists do not ask rabbis to help write their party constitutions.

>		 As one of those contemptible assimilated dreck,
>my chief concern about who is a Jew is that the world has decided
>that I am one.  Martillo's opinion notwithstanding, I'm very proud
>of my Lithuanian Ashkenazi roots, especially my grandparents'
>involvement in proto-Communist agitation against the czar, and
>a few distant cousins who died in Spain's Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

A  good  example  of an especially silly fossilized mental pattern among
Ashkenazim.  We know now that this protocommunist agitation lead to  the
establishment  of a system in Russia which was even worse for the Jewish
people than the czarist government.  Perlow should be  ashamed  of  this
yihus (lineage).

As  for  the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, any Sefardic Jew can tell you that
this was one of the stupidest activities of Ashkenazim over the past 500
years.   After  what  Spain  did  to  the Jews, only the most moronic or
deluded Jew would involve himself in  Spanish  politics  or  die  for  a
Spanish cause.

Historical  note.   Despite  this  mindless  Ashkenazi  support  for the
anarchists Franco went out of his way to save ~45,000  Jews  during  the
Hitler  years.   Also  after  the  establishment of the state of Israel,
Franco  was  particularly  active  in  helping  Jews  get  out  of  Arab
countries.   Of  course in both cases most of the Jews saved were mostly
Sefardim, so that the typical Ashkenazi leftist would hardly be aware of
Franco's  service  to the Jewish people and might even hold this service
against Franco.
		
>Martillo believes Jews have an obligation to live off by themselves,
>that we must accept the inevitably disastrous consequences of
>muscling into the rest of society.  Well, you can steer clear of
>bigotry, or you can fight to eliminate it.  It's not clear to me
>that either strategy makes life any easier, not to mention more
>fulfilling.

No,  I  believe  Jews  should  be true to themselves.  Sefardi attitudes
about commitment as a Jew and contributing to a state are different  and
more  correct.   I  suggest  you  acquire  a  biography  of  Don  Yishaq
Abarbanel.  The idea that all individuals who live in a state must  have
the   exact  same  culture,  ways  and  outlook  on  life  is  a  modern
totalitarian  aberration  which  most  Jewish  leftists  have   stupidly
accepted  with  hardly  any  serious  thought  whatsoever.  The constant
attempts of Ashkenazim to prove themselves as Frenchmen  or  Germans  or
Russians  show a lack of pride in their heritage and is self-abasing and
probably invites  non-Jewish  contempt.   No  other  group  puts  itself
through  such  self-contortions.   My  family would never want anyone to
think of them as Arabs.
		
>Yes, heritage is important.  Martillo is proud that he has dined
>with kings.  And I'm proud that I haven't.

I  noted  the people whom my family entertained merely to point out that
kashrut does not cut Jews off from the world but rather guarantees  that
the  convivial  setting,  which  could most easily lead to assimilation,
occurs only on Jewish terms so that assimilation is prevented -- this is
the  real  reason  Europeans  have  objected  to  kashrut -- it prevents
assimilation i.e. the destruction of the Jewish people.

Just a note about leftist Ashkenazim and social  commitment  in  Eastern
Europe.   The  Ashkenazim  who were involved in leftist and particularly
communist movements were typically members of the most privileged  class
of Jews (unlike my mother's family who were impoverished in Libya).

These  Ashkenazim genuinely wanted to assimilate into Slavic society but
could not bring themselves to convert to Christianity.  Therefore,  they
converted  to  Marxism  or  some other leftist movement which gave these
Jews entry to a segment of non-Jewish society without the  psychological
trauma of conversion.

Granted this segment was a minority, but there were so few Jews in these
countries that numerically there were more non-Jews who would approve of
this break with traditional Jewish society by conversion to Marxism than
there were Jews who could give encouragement and support to  a  Jew  who
wished to uphold the tradition.

The leftist Jews in Eastern Europe had no genuine commitment to help the
poor.  If they did they would have worked with the many Jewish poor (who
were worse off than the non-Jewish poor because of Slavic antisemitism).
Instead, the leftist Ashkenazim ignored the existence  of  Jewish  poor.
In  fact, Rosa Luxemburg denied that there was any special Jewish sorrow
in Poland which in fact had the largest fraction and number  of  utterly
destitute Jews of any country in Europe.

So  Ken,  I  know  your  not  a bad fellow but don't give me any of this
smugness about your family's leftist traditions.  They are a sham.