Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site oliven.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!oliveb!olivee!oliven!rap From: rap@oliven.UUCP Newsgroups: net.motss,net.religion Subject: Re: Gay Rights Message-ID: <576@oliven.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Sep-84 16:57:47 EDT Article-I.D.: oliven.576 Posted: Mon Sep 24 16:57:47 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 4-Oct-84 00:52:25 EDT References: <174@usfbobo.UUCP>, <1136@pyuxn.UUCP>, <180@usfbobo.UUCP>, <2796@allegra.UUCP> <183@usfbobo.UUCP> Organization: Olivetti ATC, Cupertino, Ca Lines: 86 . >>I think Dave's hatred is much too deeply ingrained to allow him to >>explain or question it. > >This is the second time I've seen this hatred thing. Jerry Nowlin >said something similar. I definitely hate lies and sometimes react >viscerally against them (having seen the disastrous results that >acceptance of lies has had in my own life and the lives of some of >my friends). As far as I know this is a virtue. Let me know if >you can correct me on this. > >FROM: David Brunson Dave, I think that if this was the second time (and this will be the third) that you have seen someone call you a hatefull person you had better start looking into yourself for the reasons why. I hate lies too. So much in fact that I would rather risk putting myself into big trouble than to tell a "little white lie". You, however, go far beyond that. I agree that to dislike lying would be virtuous. But to start passing laws against people whom you think are living a lie is definitely NOT virtuous. >As for the explanation: what I'm after is a discussion on the >limits of "tolerance". We are talking about two different groups of >people: those who say that homosexuality is a matter of "sexual >preference" and those to whom homosexuality is an abomination. >The problem is this: how can we accomodate both groups in the >same country? Two comments. First, you totally ignore the group that believes that that homosexuality is not a matter of choice, but of being. Second, how can we NOT accomodate both groups of people. Or do you want to begin treating the homosexual people as the Jews were treated in Germany. >The ultimate goal of civil rights rhetoric has to be civil >rights legislation. If you would include homosexuals as a minority >under current civil rights initiatives, then you would penalize >those who wish to discriminate against homosexuals. Good for us! That is exactly what we need. Strong laws to prohibit discrimination against EVERYONE. Even "Kingdom sorts of guys". Yes, Dave, I would even want to prohibit discrimination against someone who wants to discriminate against others. > Is this >a good thing? You're damn right it is! >Suppose I refuse to sell my home to homosexuals? Suppose I work in >a government agency and refuse to award contracts to homosexual >businessmen? Then you would be an abomination to the Teacher who taught his followers love and forgiveness. After all, he never did teach condemnation, did he? > Would you have me "educated" about "tolerance" in >counseling sessions? That won't work. I've already had 16 years >of that kind of "education" and haven't learned the lesson yet. You're a hard man. Not an attack, an observation. >Here's the issue: do you advocate federal legislation/mandates/whatever >that would recognize homosexuals as a protected minority. Why? No, I advocate legislation that protects all people. No matter what their race, religion, origin, preference or education. Why? Because I believe discrimination is wrong. No matter what. > How will you simultaneously protect those >who obstinately refuse to accept your concept of "tolerance"? Hey, if you break into someone's house you're going to be busted aren't ya? >-- >David Brunson, A nice guy. Really. No, I really don't think so. I'm sure that you like to think of yourself that way, but I think that the only other people who would agree with that opinion are the people you go to church with. BTW, you do go to church don't you? Thought so. -- Robert A. Pease {hplabs|zehntel|fortune|ios|tolerant|allegra|tymix}!oliveb!oliven!rap