Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site mcnc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!unc!mcnc!bch From: bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes) Newsgroups: net.motss,net.religion Subject: Re: Gay Rights Message-ID: <2240@mcnc.UUCP> Date: Sun, 23-Sep-84 12:38:36 EDT Article-I.D.: mcnc.2240 Posted: Sun Sep 23 12:38:36 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Sep-84 04:45:44 EDT References: <174@usfbobo.UUCP>, <1136@pyuxn.UUCP>, <180@usfbobo.UUCP>, <2796@allegra.UUCP>, <183@usfbobo.UUCP> Organization: North Carolina Educational Computing Service Lines: 72 Yipes! I find that I am ashamed that David Brunson and I are in any way affiliated with the same organization. (I graduated from USF some 15 years ago.) Suppose, however, the Bill of Rights had never been passed. Given my current opinion of Mr. Brunson my version of his example might go something like this: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Suppose that I am an employer and that the federal government has just outlawed discrimination on the basis of religious preference. One of my employees comes out of the closet. I confront him about it and he confirms that he definitely engages in Christian acts and intends to continue doing so. Being a caring, loving person, and not wanting to see him continue in a lie unchallenged and so confuse himself and others, I immediately fire him. He goes to the local Labor Relations Board (or whatever) and reports me. A few days later a social worker comes out to the office and the following dialogue happens: -- "Mr. Howes, we've just gotten a complaint that you've terminated an employee, a Mr. Brunson, without adequate reason. Can you explain?" "Sure, always glad to help the government! Mr. Brunson practices Christianity. I found out about it and fired him!" "Mr. Howes, it is my duty to advise you that unless you reinstate Mr. Brunson immediately, you are subject to [lawsuits, fines, whatever]. Will you comply?" "Not until he *stops* repenting." "Ahh, I see." [scribbles something in a notebook and leaves] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ [My comments on the some of the rest of his article follow:] >>Suppose I refuse to sell my home to homosexuals? Suppose I work in >>a government agency and refuse to award contracts to homosexual >>businessmen? Would you have me "educated" about "tolerance" in >>counseling sessions? That won't work. I've already had 16 years >>of that kind of "education" and haven't learned the lesson yet. No, I'd probably have you fined and put in the slammer. While I may be a caring person, the kind of attitude and activity you describe would be definitely illegal. Since I wouldn't want you to engage in such a lie, I'd let the government put you someplace to think about it for a while. >>Here's the issue: do you advocate federal legislation/mandates/whatever >>that would recognize homosexuals as a protected minority. Why? What >>specifically do you propose? How will you simultaneously protect those >>who obstinately refuse to accept your concept of "tolerance"? This is not the issue, by your own example. What we are talking about is essential civil rights as guaranteed by the Constitution and upheld by the supreme court. There are lots of people in this world whose activities I dislike; Nazis, Moonies, prostelytizing right-wing Chris- tians, wife-beaters, people who rip articles out of library periodicals, jaywalkers, creationists, trekkies and people who post to multiple newsgroups to name a few. It is my right to dislike them, but it is not my right to abridge their rights as members of this society because of that dislike. I don't believe anyone, but you, is talking about giving gays "protected minority" status in the legal sense of the word. Minority quotas, contract obligations and so forth are *your* Phyllis Shlaflyisms designed to conjure meaningless spectres in others minds. A lie is a lie not only when it is about fact, but when it is about potential. -- Byron C. Howes {decvax|akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch