Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site pucc-h Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!CS-Mordred!Pucc-H:rsk From: rsk@pucc-h (Rich Kulawiec) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Saint DuBois, Sinner Kulawiec Message-ID: <1227@pucc-h> Date: Thu, 20-Sep-84 21:54:11 EDT Article-I.D.: pucc-h.1227 Posted: Thu Sep 20 21:54:11 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 25-Sep-84 21:09:54 EDT References: <302@uwmacc.UUCP>, <1196@pucc-h> <1226@pucc-h> Organization: Purdue, THE Indiana University Lines: 73 Well, now that you've identified the players for us, Jeff, maybe we can get on with the game. From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent) > Why? Don't you like the idea of transformed lives? Well, I don't know, since I'm not sure what a "transformed life" is supposed to be. I certainly don't like (my perception of) Paul's (and possibly your) heaven/afterlife. I don't like the idea that some bozo god-being is going to send some of us to eternal bliss, and some of us to eternal torment. That's a really stupid way to run a universe. When the day comes that I die, and find myself standing before some cosmic entity in judgement, I hope to be able to deliver my complaint(s) in person...if then, I'm relegated to the pits, well, at least my self-respect and integrity will be intact. > I have never understood why those who believe they are just going to die, > and that'll be the end, bother living. If all there is is experiencing > various facets of life -- growth, pleasure, relating, whatever -- with nothing > eternal to which these experiences can be added; if all there is is the > physical body; why do you people bother? We bother because we see things worth doing HERE, NOW. Rather than wasting our time trying to get folks to believe in the hereafter, or fighting wars over whether our vision of afterlife is right, or the other folks', or pouring money into religious institutions, or {and so on}, we'd rather enjoy what we have now as WE want to enjoy it, and work on making this place better for us, the next generation, and anyone else who happens along. Maybe life as it is NOW, HERE, isn't enough for you. Fine. You can believe whatever you want to. But for some of us, it's all we need, and we do just fine with it--we don't need a religious security blanket to get through our days. We're fairly happy even with our imperfections, real and imagined, and we manage to get through life without worrying about it over much. > Perhaps "the sinners have much more fun", as Billy Joel said in the song this > is alluding to -- in the short term. But how are you going to have fun if your > "fun" is of the self-destructive nature that wrecks your health or kills you > at an early age? > > And anyway, I have seen that "saints" can have genuine fun without indulging > in a lot of the actions usually associated with the "sinners". It is possible > to have a good time on earth and still go to Heaven; so what do you gain by > refusing the second to concentrate on the first? If I wreck my health or kill myself at an early age, what possible concern is that of yours? If I drink, or smoke, or get high, or have sex (yes, please), or anything else that falls into your category of "self-destructive", why should YOU worry about it? Look, I'm having a great time, and if I go out this way, well, ok, maybe I'd rather stick around a little longer, but I'll settle for the good times I've had in preference to cringing about and worrying about what some turkey up in the sky thinks. I'm having "a good time on earth" in the way I see fit; if YOU don't like it (and what do you *really* know about it, anyway?) and if YOU don't think I'll get the goodies when I bite the big one, YOU are welcome to your opinion. George Carlin once pointed out that religion is like a lift in your shoe; it's nice if you need it...but let's not go around trying to nail lifts on the native's feet. Not having a good time, but struggling with fast fourier transforms instead... -- ---Rsk UUCP: { decvax, icalqa, ihnp4, inuxc, sequent, uiucdcs } !pur-ee!rsk { decwrl, hplabs, icase, psuvax1, siemens, ucbvax } !purdue!rsk Not fade away...