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From: jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (John T. Nelson)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: Wishful thinking (religion)
Message-ID: <971@trwrba.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 22-Sep-84 17:35:36 EDT
Article-I.D.: trwrba.971
Posted: Sat Sep 22 17:35:36 1984
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	Subject: Re: Wishful thinking (religion)

		There seem to be two issues here.  First, what did the
		person experience?  Second, is that person's
		interpretation of what happened

	If you're asking what I felt like when I was converted:  I
	didn't feel anything.  No emotional experience, no bells and
	whistles, or choirs, or warm feelings.  Nothing.

Come now!  I'm surprised that you should interpret this to mean
"physical experience."  I mean, how were YOU changed as a person,
not how your outward behavior changed.  In what way did YOU become
a different person inside?  That's what the word "conversion" means
you know... like Uncle Ben's rice.

The point is... "Is your conversion REALLY attributable to God."

		REALLY what happened (truth is so hard to pin down).

	Ah, yes!  It's all so complicated and how are we to know...
	I've heard that one before.  Question for you:  is there an
	objective reality?  If not, then your question doesn't make
	sense.

You've heard that one before... as if it were a cynical
question.  Consider what I am asking.  How do you know that your
conversion was indeed inspired by the hand of God?  Why not convert to
Ubizmitizm?  Surely you aren't signing your life away to just ANY random
deity.  Converting to Christianity implies that you converted
to that particular belief because......

			(fill in the blank)


	My usual reaction to this sort of thing is to state
	that if one wishes to ascribe a naturalistic explanation to my
	experience, go right ahead.  I don't, however.  Nor do I make
	much attempt to justify my position.  Pretty pigheaded, huh?

No... actually sounds rather easy-going to me.

	Why am I that way? Something like this:  I was an atheist.
	God turned me into a Christian.  Now I'm not an atheist.
	Not much of an explanation, I guess.  But I didn't do it,
	so I'm hard pressed to explain it.  It's as much of a mystery
	to me as it is to anyone.  All I know is WHO did it.  (Which,
	after all, is quite sufficient)

And how did you know it was God?  That's why I ask, "what did you
experience?"  What is it that made you certain that it was God and
not "The Great Ubizmo?"

	But I didn't turn my life around.  I didn't TRY to do anything.

Poor choice of words on my part.

	Emotional?  Not in my case.

Again poor choice of words on my part.

	Well, of course.  Some people see the all things in spiritual
	terms, others in entirely naturalistic terms.  If one believes
	that all things must have a naturalistic explanation, then
	unusual events which cannot explained have suspension of
	judgment applied to them.  "It's not supernatural, we just
	don't have an explanation for it yet."

Which harkens back to my original pair of statements.  Sometimes,
the reaction depends upon the person and not the experience.
Had the naturalistic kind of guy been more of a Kingdom kind of guy
he might claim to be in touch with God as opposed to suspending his
belief in God.

	One more thing, which wasn't addressed in Mr. Nelson's
	posting but which has come up before, viz., making God
	in our image.  This doesn't make much sense to me.  Why
	in the world would I make up a God who's going to blow
	me into Hell forever if I don't wake up and realize that
	I'm an abomination before Him and had better get with it
	and start listening to Him?

It wasn't addressed because it doesn't make much sense to me
either.  Who would be so foolish as to make up a God and
then turn around and ignore it (note I said "it").  I guess
you have to have a lot of confidence in yourself (or you
secretly like punishment).  ;-)