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From: sdyer@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: net.motss
Subject: Re: Form and Substance
Message-ID: <1006@bbncca.ARPA>
Date: Thu, 11-Oct-84 19:37:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: bbncca.1006
Posted: Thu Oct 11 19:37:52 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 12-Oct-84 06:13:22 EDT
References: <947@phs.UUCP>
Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 51

It is beyond me how so many people like Dolber will so gladly act as
apologists for Arndt's behavior.  We are discussing, not "supportiveness"
(UGGH), not "agreement" (UGGH UGGH), but civility and the ability to
treat a discussion and its members seriously.  Right now, there is
only one proper place for his sentiments, and that is in net.flame.

Let's get one thing clear here.  If he acted this way in any other
newsgroup, he would be dismissed immediately as a crank.  If he behaved in
public similar to the way he writes in net.motss, he would be dragged off
for psychiatric observation, presumably kicking and screaming still.
Why are the standards for net.motss any different than other groups
on USENET?  They are not.  

Arndt tried the same behavior in net.woman, and was summarily asked to
clean up his act.  For some strange reason (perhaps he has fewer personal
troubles with women's issues than with gay issues) he more or less obeyed.  
I suspect strongly (correct me if I'm wrong) that Mr. Dolber and Mr. Moffett
and any other private apologists for Arndt's behavior have come to this
discussion a little late.  When Arndt first started behaving so bizarrely,
other contributors to net.motss attempted to take him seriously.  We come
to this action now only after an exhausting six months or so of enduring
his tiresome anti-social behavior.  The readers and contributors to net.motss
could not be seriously accused of intolerance by anyone who knows the facts.

Let's make another thing clear: net.motss and mod.motss are not "the real
world", they are discussion groups.  It is an appalling, ignorant charge
that gay people would prefer to live in a "protected" fantasy world, simply
because the members of net.motss would like to discuss important issues
seriously in an environment free of hecklers.  First, only some of the
members of net.motss are gay.  Second, it is only by such apologists that
infernal caterwauling has suddenly become a virtue.  It is only through
such apologists that the inability to express an idea clearly is now
irrelevant to serious discourse.  It is right and responsible to expect
a certain standard of behavior in most USENET newsgroups, just as it is
right and responsible to have standards of public behavior.  By no stretch
of the imagination does the history of Arndt's behavior in net.motss fit
any such standard.  By Mr. Dolber's standards, we should allow children to
scream in the middle of a performance, and we should acquiesce when a
series of hecklers stand up and disrupt a lecture.  Hey, that's the real
world, right?

Arndt should be judged on his own boorish behavior, not as a representative of
any movement other than Ken Arndt, Inc.

And to reiterate the subject line here, we are discussing form and not
content.  Anyone willing to exercise some intellectual responsibility
for their comments are welcome, and will be taken seriously.
-- 
/Steve Dyer
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sdyer@bbncca.ARPA