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From: hav@dual.UUCP (Helen Anne Vigneau)
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Phil Ngai, Chris Stassen, and now, Henry Mensch . . .
Message-ID: <835@dual.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 10-Oct-84 18:06:27 EDT
Article-I.D.: dual.835
Posted: Wed Oct 10 18:06:27 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 12-Oct-84 05:42:12 EDT
References: <615@trwspp.UUCP> <639@pucc-i>
Organization: Dual Systems, Berkeley, CA
Lines: 137

<*munch*>

=> [Keeping up with the Jones's grammar!]

I take it you're only referring to one Jones; otherwise, you'd have said,
"Keeping up with the Joneses' grammar!"  :-)  (See below.)

=> 	Sorry, Chris; you're wrong this time.  Since your last
=> grammar lesson it *has* become acceptable usage to mark possession 
=> (on words which end in the consonant 's') with an "'s" also.
=> (Perhaps this is an outgrowth of the Information Age).

Okay (let's not debate "okay" just yet, all right?), everybody!  I have
checked two references, and the consensus is as follows:

1.

SINGULAR NOUNS

     To form the possessive of a singular noun that ends in *s* or an *s*
     sound, be guided by the way the noun is pronounced.

     a.  If a new syllable is formed in the pronunciation of the possessive,
         add an apostrophe plus *s*.

         my boss's desk               Harris's letter
         the witness's testimony      Mr. Jones's book

     b.  If the addition of an extra syllable would make an *s*-sounding word
         hard to pronounce, add the apostrophe only.

         Mr. Hawkins' order           Mr. Phillips' pen
         for goodness' sake           Simmons' factory

     CAUTION:  In forming the possessive of any noun ending in *s*, always
     place the apostrophe at the end of the original word, never within it.


         Mr. Hodges' message (NOT:  Mr. Hodge's message)

PLURAL NOUNS

     To form the possessive of a *regular* plural noun, add only an
     apostrophe.

         students' marks              attorneys' offices
         the witnesses' testimonies   the Joneses' contributions
         a sellers' market            ladies' day

     NOTE:  Since the singular and plural possessives for the same word
     usually sound exactly alike, pay particularly close attention to the
     meaning in order to determine whether the noun in question is singular
     or plural.

         A student's marks may not give a full picture of his abilities.

         BUT:  Students' marks must be submitted by Friday.

         We have been invited to Mr. and Mrs. Jones's home.

         BUT:  We have been invited to the Joneses' home.

     To form the possessive of an *irregular* plural noun, add an apostrophe
     plus *s*.

         men's suits                   children's shoes

     IMPORTANT NOTE:  To avoid mistakes in forming the possessive of plural
     nouns, form the plural first; then apply whichever of the above rules
     that fits.

     SINGULAR      PLURAL      PLURAL POSSESSIVE

     boy           boys        boys'
     boss          bosses      bosses'
     child         children    children's
     alumnus       alumni      alumni's


AND:

2.

MOST COMMON USE OF THE APOSTROPHE

The apostrophe is most commonly used to show possession as applied to a noun;
for example, *ladies' clothing, children's books, student's tuition*.  Three
simple rules govern the use of the apostrophe to show possession.

     1.  For a word that does not end in *s*, add an apostrophe and *s*.

         The *child's* request was granted.

         The *children's request was granted.  (Because neither *child* nor
         *children* ends in *s*, add an apostrophe and *s* to show
         possession.  The same rule applies to other words that do not end in
         *s*.)

     2.  For a word that does end in *s*, add only an apostrophe.

         *Ladies'* clothing is sold by all department stores.

         Policemen often sponsor *boys'* clubs.

     3.  For a word ending in *s* which has an added syllable when its
         possessive is pronounced, add an apostrophe and *s*.

         The *actress's* behavior received more attention than it deserved.

         The *witness's* testimony was easily refuted.  (There is one more
         syllable in *actress's* than in *actress*; there is one more
         syllable in *witness's* than in *witness*.  Therefore, add an
         apostrophe and *s* to each word to form its possessive.)

=> 	My only regret is that I don't recall where I saw this gem.

Item 1 was plagiarized from *Reference Manual for Stenographers and Typists*,
Fourth Edition, (c) 1970 by McGraw-Hill, Inc.  Authors:  Gavin & Sabin

Item 2 was plagiarized from *College English and Communication*, Third Edition,
(c) 1975 by McGraw-Hill, Inc.  Authors:  Steward, Lanham, & Zimmer

=> Henry C. Mensch                 | Purdue University Computing Center

What happened to Boredom Central?  I guess all this flaming ended the
boredom(?).

=>             " . . You'd better smile when they watch you,
=>                   smile like you're in control. . ."

Are you out of control, Henry?  :-)

Helen Anne Vigneau
Dual Systems Corporation

P.S.  My humble apologies to those who received and read the first copy of
      this--the one that *I* forgot to run through "spell."