Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1+some 2/3/84; site dual.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!ut-sally!mordor!dual!hav From: hav@dual.UUCP (Helen Anne Vigneau) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Phil Ngai, Chris Stassen, and now, Henry Mensch . . . Message-ID: <835@dual.UUCP> Date: Wed, 10-Oct-84 18:06:27 EDT Article-I.D.: dual.835 Posted: Wed Oct 10 18:06:27 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 12-Oct-84 05:42:12 EDT References: <615@trwspp.UUCP> <639@pucc-i> Organization: Dual Systems, Berkeley, CA Lines: 137 <*munch*> => [Keeping up with the Jones's grammar!] I take it you're only referring to one Jones; otherwise, you'd have said, "Keeping up with the Joneses' grammar!" :-) (See below.) => Sorry, Chris; you're wrong this time. Since your last => grammar lesson it *has* become acceptable usage to mark possession => (on words which end in the consonant 's') with an "'s" also. => (Perhaps this is an outgrowth of the Information Age). Okay (let's not debate "okay" just yet, all right?), everybody! I have checked two references, and the consensus is as follows: 1. SINGULAR NOUNS To form the possessive of a singular noun that ends in *s* or an *s* sound, be guided by the way the noun is pronounced. a. If a new syllable is formed in the pronunciation of the possessive, add an apostrophe plus *s*. my boss's desk Harris's letter the witness's testimony Mr. Jones's book b. If the addition of an extra syllable would make an *s*-sounding word hard to pronounce, add the apostrophe only. Mr. Hawkins' order Mr. Phillips' pen for goodness' sake Simmons' factory CAUTION: In forming the possessive of any noun ending in *s*, always place the apostrophe at the end of the original word, never within it. Mr. Hodges' message (NOT: Mr. Hodge's message) PLURAL NOUNS To form the possessive of a *regular* plural noun, add only an apostrophe. students' marks attorneys' offices the witnesses' testimonies the Joneses' contributions a sellers' market ladies' day NOTE: Since the singular and plural possessives for the same word usually sound exactly alike, pay particularly close attention to the meaning in order to determine whether the noun in question is singular or plural. A student's marks may not give a full picture of his abilities. BUT: Students' marks must be submitted by Friday. We have been invited to Mr. and Mrs. Jones's home. BUT: We have been invited to the Joneses' home. To form the possessive of an *irregular* plural noun, add an apostrophe plus *s*. men's suits children's shoes IMPORTANT NOTE: To avoid mistakes in forming the possessive of plural nouns, form the plural first; then apply whichever of the above rules that fits. SINGULAR PLURAL PLURAL POSSESSIVE boy boys boys' boss bosses bosses' child children children's alumnus alumni alumni's AND: 2. MOST COMMON USE OF THE APOSTROPHE The apostrophe is most commonly used to show possession as applied to a noun; for example, *ladies' clothing, children's books, student's tuition*. Three simple rules govern the use of the apostrophe to show possession. 1. For a word that does not end in *s*, add an apostrophe and *s*. The *child's* request was granted. The *children's request was granted. (Because neither *child* nor *children* ends in *s*, add an apostrophe and *s* to show possession. The same rule applies to other words that do not end in *s*.) 2. For a word that does end in *s*, add only an apostrophe. *Ladies'* clothing is sold by all department stores. Policemen often sponsor *boys'* clubs. 3. For a word ending in *s* which has an added syllable when its possessive is pronounced, add an apostrophe and *s*. The *actress's* behavior received more attention than it deserved. The *witness's* testimony was easily refuted. (There is one more syllable in *actress's* than in *actress*; there is one more syllable in *witness's* than in *witness*. Therefore, add an apostrophe and *s* to each word to form its possessive.) => My only regret is that I don't recall where I saw this gem. Item 1 was plagiarized from *Reference Manual for Stenographers and Typists*, Fourth Edition, (c) 1970 by McGraw-Hill, Inc. Authors: Gavin & Sabin Item 2 was plagiarized from *College English and Communication*, Third Edition, (c) 1975 by McGraw-Hill, Inc. Authors: Steward, Lanham, & Zimmer => Henry C. Mensch | Purdue University Computing Center What happened to Boredom Central? I guess all this flaming ended the boredom(?). => " . . You'd better smile when they watch you, => smile like you're in control. . ." Are you out of control, Henry? :-) Helen Anne Vigneau Dual Systems Corporation P.S. My humble apologies to those who received and read the first copy of this--the one that *I* forgot to run through "spell."