Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.PCS 1/10/84; site hocse.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!houxm!hogpc!pegasus!hocse!dls From: dls@hocse.UUCP Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: violence Message-ID: <168@hocse.UUCP> Date: Fri, 28-Sep-84 10:32:57 EDT Article-I.D.: hocse.168 Posted: Fri Sep 28 10:32:57 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 29-Sep-84 08:47:33 EDT References: <848@ihuxe.UUCP>, <9160@watmath.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Information Systems Labs, Holmdel NJ Lines: 73 REFERENCE: <848@ihuxe.UUCP>, <9160@watmath.UUCP> I agree with the sentiments expressed, ie that the proximate motive for rape is "power," "dominance," or whatever, rather than sheer lust. However, let's take this one step further back, and look at *why* men(and apparently many men) feel such a strong need to "get back at women" that they are willing to risk severe penalties to do so. Many people talk as though "power" and "sex" had nothing to do with each other. I suggest that a "power struggle" for control of the woman's body is INTRINSIC to the relationship between the sexes on a very primitive level. It is impossible to take separate the two. Women struggle for exclusive control over their bodies, a very reasonable thing -- from their point of view. Men struggle to impregnate women -- which amounts to gaining control over their bodies and forcing pregnancy upon them. Usually a compromise is worked out that is satisfactory to both. But not always. Some men, rather more than you might expect, lose out: the ugly, the fat, the stupid, the emotionally disturbed, the insane, the poor, etc. They become desperate men, injured by women on many levels, terribly insecure, and they turn to desperate means. They may indeed lust after women, but mainly they lust after revenge. Much as war is the extension of politics by violent means, rape is the extension of the power struggle between the sexes by violent means. And as we all know, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. ******* Special Note ******* I am as opposed to rape as the next person, if not more so. I am suggesting that rape must be understood before it can be fought, and that many people don't understand it. One myth in particular is that rapists are a small, weird group of perverts. Read Susan Brownmillers book, "Against Our Will," especially the sections of rape during wartime. The conclusion is that a very high proportion of men would rape women IF they thought they could get away with it, and in wartime they think they can, and do. What to do about rape? Castration won't work. Not only is it cruel and unusual, appealing to the sadistic streak in people, but useless as well. If rape is a crime of power, then castration is irrelevant! You can brutalize someone equally well before and after the castration. Two kinds of solutions exist: 1)make it harder to get away with rape. 2)change society/men so that fewer men want to rape women. Under the heading of making it harder to get away with come: a)sure and swift punishment for rapists b)work against the "victim" mentality in women c)teach as many women self-defense as want to learn. Under the heading of societal changes comes: a)push for the equality of men and women, esp in child raising b) ??? usually feminists suggest censorship of porn here ??? but I think this is superficial, treating a symptom rather than a cause while erroding our fundamental freedoms. Still,these are solutions that do nothing to address the fears and insecurities that exist in millions of men right now, waiting only for the right circumstances to come to the fore.