Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxe.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!ihuxe!rainbow From: rainbow@ihuxe.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: presidential debate Message-ID: <891@ihuxe.UUCP> Date: Mon, 8-Oct-84 15:02:07 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxe.891 Posted: Mon Oct 8 15:02:07 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 9-Oct-84 03:55:30 EDT Sender: rainbow@ihuxe.UUCP Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 236 Here are my comments with respect to the debate. ************************************************ Topic:unbalanced budget Reagan:rested on his laurels of his past economic recovery. *A job well done, a worthy accomplishment. But there are now new problems *to deal with. :Only solution given was that we must hold down government spending. More revenue will automatically be generated with continued economic growth. *Congress has opposed cuts in the past. Why will next time be any different? *How about some specific plans on spending cuts? Also, who is to say that *economic growth will outdistance increased spending. Mondale:No plan other than increased taxes. Claimed spending cuts are not feasible and revenue will not increase. *I refuse to believe that no effort can be made in the area of spending cuts. *And increased taxes will be offset somewhat by a decrease in revenue due to *the hindrance of economic growth. Issue:I want to see budget plans and spending cuts. I want to see what spending cuts have been tried in the past and failed. I want to see plans. Not just what we must accomplish. Result:even ************************************************************************** Topic:leadership Reagan:avoided subject. Digressed into replying to Mondale charges and made some himself. *this should have been a strong point, but he came across very poorly. Modale:Be forward, give plans, answer questions, be open, be honest. *a good showing. However he also spent his extra time making more charges. Issue:How much control do outside forces have on Mondale. What commitments does Mondale have and what promises does he owe to supporters. And is there anything to the charge he made that Reagan is a puppet. Result:Mondale **************************************************************************** Topic:religion Reagan:Believes in prayer and claims faith in a higher authority is necessary for a leader. Claimed he doesn't go to church to avoid placing others in danger. *Came across as not trying to offend either side. ie took the middle road. *I think his concern for other members of a church was a cop-out for his not *going. However I also believe one needs not go to church to be religious. *Mentioned politics and religion should not be mixed. Mondale:Harped on his religious family and upbringing. Claimed to be very devout. Also emphasized the importance of seperating church and state. *Ho hum. Really didn't say anything new. Typical comments by a politician on *the subject of religion. Issue:what has religion got to do with either campaign? Why should it be important anyway? Result:even *************************************************************************** Topic:party support Reagan:Cited past record of success. Cited past democratic failures. Will deal with today's problems with the same successful result. *Yeah, but how about some plans? However, Reagan will see continued support *until such time he fails to deal/handle a present/new problem. As of now *people find it hard to perceive the danger of a high deficit when there *seems to be no apparent effect. Mondale:When the people look at and compare our plans for the future, support will return to the democratic party. By election time the people will know the democratic party is for them. Mentioned the problems of today. *Yeah, but how about some plans? We know about today's problems. There are *always problems. It appears to me Mondale is doing some wishful thinking. *Why should tomorrow be any different than yesterday. He has little support *as of now. Issue:Republicans will retain support until something is handled inadequately. Such is the way of politics. Result:Reagan ************************************************************************* Topic:abortion Reagan:we must concentrate on a definition of life. *unrealistic. Nothing has been accomplished in the past in this direction. :No proof that an unborn child is not alive. *How about vice versa? :It should be made illegal except under special circumstances. *Talk about a middle road. Matter-in-fact, I was not even aware Reagan was *pro-life. And who determines the special circumstances? And how will the *law be enforced? The Mother will find a way to have an abortion in any case *even at the risk of her own health. Mondale:Laws against abortion are not feasible. Government cannot be tied up making constant abortion rulings. Can't be enforced because "underground" abortions will continue. The situation will just become worse by outlawing it. *Gee, I was not aware Mondale was for abortion. To me it seems like the *candidates have just switched rolls/views. I guess I haven't paid attention *since the issue isn't important to me. I tend to agree with Mondale though. Issue:What are they going to do about their views. Just because they say they believe in this or that doesn't mean they will do anything about it. Result:even ************************************************************************** Topic:taxes Reagan:There will be no tax increase!!! As for previous tax cuts, claimed everyone got the same percentage. *Lets see some numbers. Anyway, the more affluent need less of a tax break. Mondale:The tax increase will be weighted towards the rich. Under 25K will see no increase. Those around 50K will have a small increase. Those above 100K will bear the brunt. We must be fair about everyone paying their share. *Fair? Whats fair with an ultimate goal of leaving everyone with the same *amount after taxes. While I can see everyone should pay the same percentage, *maybe even slightly weighted against the wealthy, it should not be overdone. *Mondale definitely tried to appeal to the masses here, writing off the *insignificant wealthy vote which he wouldn't get anyway. And worse, when *will increased taxes stop? They seem to increase steadily with time. :eliminate loopholes. They are only taken advantage of by the rich. In many cases the rich pay less than the poor, percentage wise. *Now thats something I can agree with. How about seeing some plans on *accomplishing this? Issue:Lets see the tax structure of the past, present, and future. Lets also look at loopholes more closely. Result:even ************************************************************************** Topic:economic recovery(wrt to poverty) Reagan:the rate of people going below the poverty line has been decreasing since taking office. Program cuts for the poor have only been made in areas to stop wastage and cheaters. Further economic recovery will continue to reduce the rate of poor poeple increase. *In the past the economy was in bad shape. Poverty numbers were to be *expected. But now during economic growth I'm concerned that the numbers are *still increasing. I would think they shouldn't be. And how can one make *restrictions tighter to avoid cheaters and wastage without hurting the needy? Mondale:Had grand plans on what must be accomplished. ie more education, more business involvement, more jobs, etc. Also, there will be no continuation of economic recovery with the national debt. *His plans cannot be realized. They sound good. But seriously, there is no *hope in attaining them. I am listening and waiting for how this will *be pulled off. Also, who is to say what effect the debt will have on economic *recovery. So far none. And signs mean nothing to what will happen. Issue:what does the future hold in store for the poor with the proposed policies? What are the proposed policies to realize the goals mentioned? Result:even ************************************************************************** Topic:take best shot at opponent's campaign Reagan:False accusations. Stop misleading the public with mud. Lay to rest charges that social security benefits will be reduced. I will never touch them. Lay to rest that I will raise taxes. The tax cuts will remain. *It is always difficult to make offensive charges at the challenger because *there is little in the past to be held accountable for. But if this is the *worst thing wrong(and an obvious matter at that) with the opponent's *campaign, why is there so little support for Mondale? Mondale:How will the budget be balanced? What spending cuts will be made? Where's the plan? How can the people compare platforms? It is not sufficient to say the deficit will disappear by itself. *The challenger always has an easy time taking the offensive. Most effective *this time in revealing a lack of specifics by Reagan. It looks as Reagan *wants to avoid committing himself to any particular action. No doubt any cuts *will meet with disapproval somewhere. Issue: I want to see plans by both parties. Now while we have a chance to object. I'm getting tired of hearing that this and that needs to be done. Result:Mondale *************************************************************************** Topic:Concluding statements Reagan: Are you and America better off now? The job is unfinished and must be continued. Listed successes up to now. Asked for continued support and trust as shown in the past which he has honored. *Making it tough for the challenger. Re-election is nearly assured regardless *of the issues. Mondale: We are selling our future for today. We will not be better off in the future. Today's problems left unsolved will be fatal. Listed today's problems as Reagan shortcomings. *Unfortunately today's problems are not as bad as yesterdays. At least not *seen that way now by the people. But it was a nice attempt to gather support *and show a need for a change. Result:even **************************************************************************** general observations: Confidence- Reagan appeared quite nervous and stuttered often. A few things digressed from the point at hand and were very confusing to follow. Mondale was very poised and appeared very confident. Point to Mondale. Preparation- Mondale was clearly better prepared with facts and figures and history. Mondale had a good response during rebuttal time for everything Reagan had to say. Reagan poorly countered some of Mondale's points due to lack of information. Point to Mondale. Game plan- Mondale's offensive was much more effective than Reagan's defense. The spotlight and pressure were on Reagan throughout. Reagan's inadequancy was much more apparent than Mondale's faults. Point to Mondale. ************************************************************************** Final score: Mondale scored a convincing victory during the debate. My score, Mondale 5 Reagan 1. 6 even. Once again prooving that the leader should never give the challenger more chances than necessary. Reagan was overconfident and paid the price. Mondale made the most of his opportunity. And if Reagan should falter somewhere during the next month...... Robert PS. Save the flames. I don't read net.politics and this had to go somewhere.