Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site lanl-a.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!lanl-a!ths From: ths@lanl-a.UUCP Newsgroups: net.aviation Subject: Turning Back Message-ID: <14163@lanl-a.UUCP> Date: Mon, 1-Oct-84 12:12:26 EDT Article-I.D.: lanl-a.14163 Posted: Mon Oct 1 12:12:26 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 2-Oct-84 07:38:14 EDT Organization: Los Alamos National Laboratory Lines: 41 This morning I gave my student a simulated engine failure at 350' AGL over the departure end of rwy 20 at Santa Fe (field elevation 6344' MSL). I had previouly requested that she attempt to turn back when I called the engine failure, so she was briefed and ready (so was the tower). IAS was 65 knots (approx best angle) in a C-172, about 200 lbs below gross with OAT at 42 degrees. When I reduced power to zero, she looked out the left side, determined that since she was slightly right of the center line, a left was most appropriate. She then executed a 35 to 45 degree banked turn while putting in full flaps. I suggested that perhaps full flaps might bring her to the ground before she completed the turn, so she immediatly backed-off to 20 degrees. I have to admit to being very suprised at the outcome. We not only were able to complete a 180 but also had enough altitude left to maneuver back to the center line of the runway. We touched down about 1500 feet down the runway. The key to the maneuver seems to be: 1) Start the turn ASAP, 2) keep the airspeed reasonably low to reduce the radius of turn and to keep the rate of turn high. The flaps seemed to do this almost automatically. 3) Use at least 35 if not 45 degrees of bank angle. I recall going thru this exercise with another student in his C-182 a few years back but I don't have the numbers we came up with. The conclusion about airspeed and bank angle were the same. As far as "teaching" the maneuver I am still somewhat divided. Performing in a C-152, C-172 or even a C-182 is quite a bit different than in a higher wing loading a/c like a Bonanza or Lance. I think the student is better-off being taught the method BUT carefully advised that an unexpected power failure within 500' AGL might best be handled by the "whatever you can see out the front windscreen is where you should set it down". The odds for survival are almost 100% using that axiam. Turning back to the runway will probably result in a stall/spin perhaps 25% of the time. Even if sufficient altitude would have allowed completion of the maneuver. I am also a firm believer in nothing greater than a medium bank turn under "normal" conditions in the pattern.