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From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: DuBois, Kulawiec (the flames shrink, we hope)
Message-ID: <1296@pucc-h>
Date: Thu, 4-Oct-84 05:50:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: pucc-h.1296
Posted: Thu Oct  4 05:50:55 1984
Date-Received: Fri, 5-Oct-84 05:53:04 EDT
References: <302@uwmacc.UUCP>, <1196@pucc-h> <1226@pucc-h>, <1227@pucc-h> <1246@pucc-h>, <1267@pucc-h>
Organization: Tucumcari Divinity School
Lines: 47

>> = Kulawiec
>  = Sargent

>> You still have your choice as to where you end up.  What's stupid about that?
>> Anyway, C.S. Lewis has speculated that Hell might actually be "nothing but
>> yourself for all eternity."

>	What the hell has C.S. Lewis got to do with this discussion?  For
>	that matter, what the hell has free will got to do with it?  I'm talking
>	about the utter idiocy of the eternal-niceness/eternal-torment scheme.

The point Lewis was making is that eternal torment may not be the fire-and-
brimstone we traditionally think of, but rather having to exist utterly
separated from the love of God...and of others.  Inasmuch as you have chosen
to separate yourself from the love of God, you will get your choice.

>> Paul [the apostle, not DuBois] predicts that every knee shall bow
>> and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

>	Yeah, bit fat hairy deal.  Sure, if ol' omnipotent god-being decides
>	to modify my brain-circuits, then I just might say or do whatever
>	it wants.

Actually, the universal recognition of the Lordship of Christ will come as
a result of unquestionable objective evidence of it.

>	*You* think it's god's handiwork; I think it's a large collection
>	of molecules that happens to be self-aware.

Belief in self-awareness on the part of a mere collection of molecules seems
to me to be a greater leap of faith than belief that there is a spirit using
that collection of molecules as a temporary home, and that the spirit is
self-aware.

>> And finally, as I commented in another article, despite the fact that a lot
>> of Christians do take a fearful approach to God, that's not what He intends.

>	Yeah, so what?  What has this got to do with any of the rest of this?

You were the one who spoke about "cringing and worrying about what some turkey
in the sky thinks."  I'm pointing out that real Christianity isn't that way.

-- 
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
"I'm not asking for anyone's bleeding charity."
"Then do.  At once.  Ask for the Bleeding Charity."