Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: $Revision: 1.6.2.16 $; site ea.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxj!ihnp4!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!ea!mwm From: mwm@ea.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: Re: Reagan's joke Message-ID: <3300065@ea.UUCP> Date: Sun, 30-Sep-84 21:40:00 EDT Article-I.D.: ea.3300065 Posted: Sun Sep 30 21:40:00 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 3-Oct-84 19:42:24 EDT References: <2785@allegra.UUCP> Lines: 59 Nf-ID: #R:allegra:-278500:ea:3300065:000:3042 Nf-From: ea!mwm Sep 30 20:40:00 1984 /***** ea:net.flame / digi-g!amir / 4:51 pm Sep 26, 1984 */ >America is, in fact, the only nation in history which when given a >chance for world domination, refused it. We had the atom bomb before >anyone else, and if we had behaved like any of the Caesars, Kaisers, >Khans, Soviets, Kings, Lords or "leaders", who came before us, we would >have cowed the world into submission. Instead, Americans gave the >equivalent of billions dollars, to help europe to recover from a war >which the europeans started. You apparently forget who used the first atomic bomb to bring Japan into submission. Now every one knows what your meaning of "maturity" is. /* ---------- */ And it's a bloody damn good thing we bombed Japan. Since you apparently have as yet to reach a level of maturity that includes study of what happened in the past, let me fill you in on some figures for that. The estimated loss of American lives for Operation Olympic was 50,000 ("Operation Olympic, the Invasion of Japan 1 November 1945", Simulations Publications, Inc. (R.I.P.)). I don't have figures for the estimated Japanese losses, but figures an order of magnitude higher than those for the Americans wouldn't surprise me. [Side note: the disparity is caused by the Japanese Using second line and militia units for the defense of the Japanese Islands.] Now, compare those numbers to the number of Japanese killed by the two American bombs: 80,000 in Hiroshima, 40,000 in Nagasaki (Encyclopedia Britannica). Lets call it 150,000, and throw in another 300,000 for those killed by radiation exposure, etc. That gives us a figure of 450,000 dead, whereas the highest figure I recall seeing in print for the total killed is 400,000. That's comparable to the losses for Operation Olympic. Since you probably don't know, Operation Olympic was the planned invasion and conquest of the southern half of Kyushu, the southernmost of the Japanese Islands. The purpose was to gain enough territory to build a safe airstrip so that supplies could be ferried in for the *main* invasion. I don't think anyone has figures for what that would have cost in lifes for either side, but the Japanese propaganda was that Japan would not surrender while there was a Japanese living. Like I said, it's a good thing we nuked Japan. Not because the nuking was in and of itself good, but because it was so much better than the alternative (and Operation Olympic - or something similar - was the only viable alternative). To add to your now vastly improved store of historical knowledge, I might point out that there was some pressure from high in the Allied ranks in Europe after VE day to take the largest land army ever assemblied, add in a fair fraction of the surrendered German WehrMacht, and dismantle the Soviet Union while we had the chance. Given the Atomic Bomb, we would certainly have succeeded. America *could* have established a "Pax Americana" by force, but declined to do so. To my knowledge, this is a unique event in history.