Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site trwrba.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!bonnie!akgua!sdcsvax!sdcrdcf!trwrba!jnelson From: jnelson@trwrba.UUCP (John T. Nelson) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Re: Evidence for Christianity Message-ID: <1029@trwrba.UUCP> Date: Fri, 12-Oct-84 19:23:51 EDT Article-I.D.: trwrba.1029 Posted: Fri Oct 12 19:23:51 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 14-Oct-84 07:42:23 EDT References: <1700039@iuvax.UUCP>, <567@bunker.UUCP> Organization: TRW EDS, Redondo Beach, CA Lines: 59 It is the resurrection, as a real event in real history, which originally convinced me that Christianity had a basis in reality And there is the bone of contention. "Real event in history"... Can you produce tangible proof that these events are more than fiction? Going one step further, can you prove that the beliefs in one god, fallen man, salvation and eternal life are true? Proving that the bible renders a few historical events faithfuly is not really sufficient. The bible contains both historical matter, and material that was interpretive even in the time its component books were written. You may be able to prove that one passage has historical validity... but in no way does that validate the beliefs of the people it describes or their interpretation of events, some of which even happened many years before the author's time. So, I would pose the following as a debate topic: The historical evidence supports the contention that Jesus of Nazareth was killed by crucifixion and was subsequently raised from the dead. Debate is the right word... I think that's as far as it will get. (Strange that other documents don't appear to be subjected to the same scrutiny that the Bible is (e.g., I have never heard it disputed that Julius Caesar wrote the works about Gaul attributed to him, which is not to say it hasn't been disputed, only that I haven't heard it), but that is another topic). Not at all strange considering the content of the bible and the history attached to it. This one book reputedly describes; the creation of man, the universe, man's fall, the reasons behind man's behavior, THE pattern of behavior acceptable to a god-being, man's wholesale damnation to eternal punishment, forgivness and salvation... wouldn't you want to know more about it? A bit more meaty than Proust. It has been subjected to scrutiny because people want to know the truth about themselves. If the above were accepted, either as given or after presenting acceptable evidence, then the argument, condensed for the sake of brevity, goes something like this: Crucifixion, when done right, and the Romans knew what they were doing, is invariably fatal. A gratuitous spear in the side confirmed that Jesus was really dead........ Produce the living body of Jesus. Now produce the cross, the witnesses and the men that crucified him. Now produce the dead body complete with nail holes and spear puncture. Further produce the tomb, the soldiers and finally the living breathing body of the same Jesus. That would be evidence. So far there has been presented no more evidence than has the National Enquirer. I'm sorry that's unkind... but you see the point. - John