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Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site brl-tgr.ARPA
Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!brl-tgr!kjm
From: kjm@brl-tgr.ARPA (Kelly J. McGlothlin )
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Indoctrination
Message-ID: <5390@brl-tgr.ARPA>
Date: Fri, 19-Oct-84 13:11:40 EDT
Article-I.D.: brl-tgr.5390
Posted: Fri Oct 19 13:11:40 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 20-Oct-84 07:46:32 EDT
Distribution: net
Organization: Ballistic Research Lab
Lines: 82




[from I-don't-know-who]

>...here's another issue.  Young women
>are indoctrinated to want to be attractive (included in this are looks,
>clothing, and charm), and yet are discouraged from facing their sexuality.

[from I-don't-know-who]

> I would describe it a bit differently, but I think that we're saying the 
> same basic thing.  The words "attractive" and "charming" don't sound quite
> right to me.  Maybe "interesting" would be better.  

[from Moira Mallison]

)Are you kidding?  *Where* have you been?  The Manhattanization of America
)has one message for all women, that we must be young and thin and beautiful.
)And if advertising isn't the most influencing force on young people growing
)up, then what is?
)Regardless of what people in this newsgroup profess to look for in an SO,
)we are bombarded daily about this way to be.  Else how do you account for
)the millions of dollars realized by the diet industry.  Because people
)want to be HEALTHY?    Not to mention the money realized by the fashion
)industry.  Sheesh.

[from William Gulley]

>-commentary on-
>But all of the advertizing in the world can't do a thing unless the "target"
>is fraught with insecurities about how he/she is.  It's kind of like a self-
>fulfilling prophecy; one person gets subjected to it and gets the impression
>that everyone else has these values, so he/she takes those values for their
>own.  If enough people do this, well, the advertized fantasy becomes "reality".
>There's one good means of defense; be honest with yourself and appreciate your
>own individuality- on what you want out of yourself *and* in your potential SO.
>If that happened more often, I'm sure a lot of ad-man/women out there would
>be looking for new jobs in no time. 
>-commentary off-

[from me, Marie Carey]

I definitely agree with Moira about this one. (Loved "Manhattanization
of America").

Gulley says that "the "target" is fraught with insecurities about how
he/she is". 

My opinion is, with all of the advertising around us stating that to
look anything *other* than "young, thin, and beautiful" is not the
norm, how can (some of) we woman *not* have insecurities? 

The insecurities are practically forced upon us, because no matter how
hard *I* try, I can not escape advertising. It is *everywhere*. Every
time I open a newspaper or magazine, I see the "young, thin, and
beautifuls". Every day that I ride the bus home, I see the ad boards
plastered on the inside of the bus. Every time I drive on the highways,
I see the billboards. 

I also agree about the "diet industry". In my opinion, to be thinner
*is* healthier, but I doubt seriously that is why the diet industry
is raking in the BIG bucks. People want to *look* good, and ya know
why?! The advertising industry! It is all a vicious circle.

Maybe because William Gulley is a man (I am assuming) he can not see
the point here that Moira has tried to make (or myself, after he reads
this, for that matter). I don't see as much pressure on men to look
good because I do not see as many beautiful men in ads as I see 
beautiful women. Of course, there are now more men in the modeling
field, but I don't really think that because men see all of these
macho, good looking type men in advertising, they feel as insecure
about themselves as much as women do. But then, that view may be
completely wrong, because I have not interviewed any men asking
them that precise question. Maybe some men may care to comment on
this subject, or maybe not (who really cares, right?) Anyway, I
guess this all sort of ties in with the "makeup" controversy that
was in net.singles a while back. (No, I don't want to start that
up again). 

Marie Carey
...seismo!carey