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From: nerad@closus.DEC
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re:  How To Stop It (Violence Against Women)
Message-ID: <3673@decwrl.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 18-Sep-84 16:55:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: decwrl.3673
Posted: Tue Sep 18 16:55:52 1984
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>How about the study of some form of martial arts or other forms of self
>defense?

>Ed Turner
>astrovax!elt

Reminder:  If you're not part of the problem, you're part of the solution.  
    		The first promoters of a solution are the precipitators :-)

*sigh*  Every so often I see this proposed as a "solution" to violent crime 
against women.  There are several fallacies in this:

>I certainly don't think this is the answer for everyone, but it would
>probably be valuable to many women who would not ordinarily be inclined
>toward such things.  ...

For one thing, there's a difference between deterring violence and stopping 
it.  Nevertheless:

    	This doesn't stop violence unless all women can learn it.  (Many areas
    		teachers are not available; many subcultures it is not
    		acceptable.)
    	This doesn't stop violence unless all women can perform it. (i.e. women
    		of extreme age groups, women who are pacifists, women
    		who are subject to panic.)
    	This doesn't stop violence unless all women WILL defend themselves.

It isn't the answer for women until it is the answer for all women.  There 
will always be women who are perceived as victims.  Attacks will not stop 
because of "a good defense is the best offense" attitudes.  FEWER attacks will 
be successful, though.

Women don't need martial training in most cases, at any rate.  They need
street-wise training, or assertiveness training--training against victim
mentality.  You can learn rote attacks till the exercise mat and your patience
wear thin, but if you don't change your attitudes about fighting back, you
won't use the skills in a crisis situation. 

>One advantage of self defense training (according to a few women I know who
>have tried it) is that it is of great help in dealing with the fear of
>being attacked even if you never have to use it.

Some people, some of which are women, abhor violence in any form, and would 
rather be a victim than commit a violent act.  Must we force these people to 
change their attitudes because of the unlawfulness of less desirable minority?
Better to remove the cause of fear than to replace fear with violence and hate
if that is possible.

But how?

Codified:  
    		Some men commit violent crimes against women.
    		Some women learn to commit violent crimes against men.
    		Some women do not defend themselves and are victims.
    		Crimes against women do not stop, because some women will
    			not defend, using violence.
    	Therefore:
    		Only when all women learn to be violent, will violence against
    			women stop.
    	      BUT:
    		Some women shun violence in any form.
    	 Therefore:
    		(A)  All women must be willing to do violence
    		     Some women (who shun violence) must be made to be willing
    				to do violence.
    		OR:
    		(B)  An alternative must be found to violence in
    			reaction to violence.

Solution (B) is probably no harder that (A), which I believe is probably 
impossible, not to mention undesireable.  We NEED gentle, non-violent people.

I went through changes in my life that made me capable of violence--I was
trained against it as a child very thoroughly.  My father is an ardent
pacifist.  I would not want to force peacefully minded people (which in theory
includes every member of the Society of Friends, not to mention B'Hais,
Unitarians, and other nice people who profess to pacifism) to have to change
to face the brutality that can color the face of one's world viewpoint. 

An alternative must be found, because violence in response to violence is 
neither valid as a universal solution, nor (I believe) supportable as a way of 
life.

SO...Is there any hope?

    			Shava Nerad
    			Telematic Systems (@DEC Ed. Svcs.)
    			{decvax, allegra}!decwrl!rhea!closus!nerad