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From: aeq@pucc-h (Jeff Sargent)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: Re: If that's all there is, my friend...
Message-ID: <1260@pucc-h>
Date: Tue, 25-Sep-84 10:58:04 EDT
Article-I.D.: pucc-h.1260
Posted: Tue Sep 25 10:58:04 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 27-Sep-84 06:10:01 EDT
References: <302@uwmacc.UUCP>, <1196@pucc-h> <1226@pucc-h>, <1155@pyuxn.UUCP>
Organization: Tucumcari Divinity School
Lines: 52

From Rich Rosen (pyuxn!rlr):

>> if all there is is the physical body; why do you people bother?  [SARGENT]

> I've said it before.  I'll say it again.  Because Jeff sees no purpose for
> living if "that's all there is", he *assumes* that there MUST be something
> external, otherwise HE would see NO purpose in HIS life.

I've said it before, I'll say it again:  YOU LIE -- or at least you are
passing on a lie which you have been deceived into believing.  You've got it
backwards.  Christians *know* deep inside themselves that "that" isn't all
there is.  You are the ones who assume that this experience is not valid and
that there is no God to whom we are relating who brings meaning, purpose,
foundation, strength, healing to our lives.  You speak of subjectivity with
contempt -- WHY??  What's wrong with it?

As C.S. Lewis pointed out (slightly paraphrased), "The statement that there is
a God, and the statement that there is no God, are neither of them statements
that science can make."  I agree that subjectivity has no place in scientific
study; but life isn't a dry scientific study; on the contrary, life is very
"wet".

Doug Dickey points out that the scientific method looks at all reality as
objects.  Thus, people are also objects; the observer himself is merely an
object.  You LIKE this world-view?

> I'm not slitting my wrists just because I think that my life will end when
> my "physical body" dies.

Darn! :-) :-)

> I feel sorry for Jeff if he
> has such a low opinion of physical life and "the physical body" that he
> feels the way he does about there having to be something else.

You've never seemed to have a high opinion of it; you've written that all the
good in us, all the intelligence, the creativity, the wisdom, the intuition,
the emotions, are all only biochemistry; and I'm pretty sure you have in the
past used "only" or a similar word, indicating low position.

However, again you have things backwards.  Actually, there didn't HAVE to be
any physical universe at all; God just chose to create it, for reasons I
certainly don't claim to know.  We didn't HAVE to exist, but we do.  And we
don't HAVE to have a relationship with God, trusting and following Him.  If
we choose not to trust Him, we will bear the consequences, even in this life
("Do not be deceived; God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, he will also
reap" -- Galatians 6:1 [I think], approximate quote).

-- 
-- Jeff Sargent
{decvax|harpo|ihnp4|inuxc|seismo|ucbvax}!pur-ee!pucc-h:aeq
No one knows the day or the hour....