Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/3/84 (WLS Mods); site astrovax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!princeton!astrovax!mario From: mario@astrovax.UUCP (Mario Vietri) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Room for everyone???? Message-ID: <453@astrovax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Sep-84 12:59:10 EDT Article-I.D.: astrovax.453 Posted: Mon Sep 24 12:59:10 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Sep-84 08:28:29 EDT References: <3691@decwrl.UUCP> Organization: Princeton Univ. Astrophysics Lines: 63 Dear netters, I have been following the conversation somewhat episodically over the last few months, due to problems with local (computer!) authorities, but I could not help noticing the extent to which the responses to Mr. Arndt and his clones have managed to force their way into nearly every single letter written to this group. This has now progressed to the point where all of the letters currently available at my institution in this newsgroup are either written by the Arndt Gang, or are replies to them. This situation is not new: many of you probably remember that Arndt managed for some time to disrupt the debate also in net.women, from which he was eventually expelled, never to reappear again. It is unlikely, though, that this will happen here too: differently from that case, now Mr. Arndt is persuaded to be waging a Holy War, and nothing we say will make him desist from it. You all know how impermeable he is to every sort of argumentation, how uninterested he is in listening, and how badly he has damaged discussion in this group. There are two possible soultions to this problem: the first is what was proposed some time ago in net.women, i.e. the creation of a private mail group from which any non-constructive contribution could be easily excluded. This feminist mail group is now alive and prospering, has received more than 300 contributions, and the environment is so pleasant that quite a number of people have told intimate personal stories. This is a possible way out. Alternatively, one may reason as follows: women's movements have gained a degree of acceptance which gay-rights movements are very far from achieving, so that the retreat into a private mailgroup, which would be quite acceptable for women, is to be considered a political defeat in this case. Holding the debate in a public forum like this is also a part of 'coming out', and we shouldn't allow Mr. Arndt and his clones to shut evryone up, and lock the closet again. I see some pluses in this line of argument. But in this case, we should probably accept the obvious: no debate is possible with Mr. Arndt and the hypocrites who disapprove of his ways and approve of his ideas (which ones?) and of his carefully researched data (straight out of Jerry Falwell's pocket). We should then propose and enforce a policy of total neglect of Mr. Arndt, one by which none of his arguments is mentioned in any contribution, none of his lurid jokes and insinuations are answered, none of his clones' support respected. This is very different from rejecting debate: it would only mean restoring this forum to its original function (message # 1): >Net.motss is designed to foster discussion on a wide variety of topics, such as >health problems, parenting, relationships, clearances, job security and >many others. Gay members of USENET will find this a supportive environment >for the discussion of issues which have immediate impact on their everyday >lives. Those who aren't gay have an opportunity to be informed by the >discussion, and are encouraged to read the news items and contribute their >own questions and opinions. > >Net.motss is emphatically NOT a newsgroup for the discussion of whether >homosexuality is good or bad, natural or unnatural. Nor is it a place >where conduct unsuitable for the net will be allowed or condoned. >Rather, like every USENET news group, it is an opportunity for people >all across the world to express their opinions, exchange ideas, and >come to appreciate the diversity within the USENET membership. Please do comment. Mario Vietri Princeton University Astrophysics {allegra,akgua,burl,cbosgd,decvax,ihnp4,kpno,princeton,vax135}!astrovax!mario