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From: rcd@opus.UUCP (Dick Dunn)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: girl vs. woman -- causality; changing attitude via language
Message-ID: <877@opus.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 11-Oct-84 14:26:39 EDT
Article-I.D.: opus.877
Posted: Thu Oct 11 14:26:39 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 13-Oct-84 02:20:27 EDT
References: <9246@watmath.UUCP> <1013@ulysses.UUCP>
Organization: NBI,Inc, Boulder CO
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> It isn't at all clear to me that using 'woman' instead of 'girl' is a case
> of reversed causality; rather, I think that the causality works in both
> directions.

That's not causality, then.  Maybe "interaction" is a better term.  When I
posted my original comments, I was a little careless (as I noted in another
posting).  Language doesn't determine attitudes (my original point) but
(what I neglected to say) it does influence them.

> Let me put it more clearly.  I'm personally a believer in the Whorfian
> hypothesis, which holds that language can *determine* thought.  (For
> more discussion on Whorf, see the discussions last year on Loglan...

(You should inflict at least as much credit for this hypothesis on Sapir as
on Whorf.)  The hypothesis takes different forms as a matter of degree.
The idea that language determines thought is an extreme position, and is
not held in particularly high regard (though you may believe it if you wish
regardless of its validity:-).

> There's a secondary reason to switch:  every time you consciously change
> your mode of speaking, you're made aware of the issue of sexual equality;
> that in itself is desirable.

Just what we need--self-consciousness imposed with every word we speak.
Actually, I doubt that any such awareness results beyond the first few
times, and anyway the purpose of speech is communication, not
self-enlightenment.
-- 
Dick Dunn	{hao,ucbvax,allegra}!nbires!rcd		(303)444-5710 x3086
   ...Relax...don't worry...have a homebrew.