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From: mwm@ea.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: Re: Reagan's joke
Message-ID: <3300065@ea.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 30-Sep-84 21:40:00 EDT
Article-I.D.: ea.3300065
Posted: Sun Sep 30 21:40:00 1984
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Nf-From: ea!mwm    Sep 30 20:40:00 1984

/***** ea:net.flame / digi-g!amir /  4:51 pm  Sep 26, 1984 */

    >America is, in fact, the only nation in history which when given a
    >chance for world domination, refused it.    We had the atom bomb before
    >anyone else, and if we had behaved like any of the Caesars, Kaisers,
    >Khans, Soviets, Kings, Lords or "leaders", who came before us, we would
    >have cowed the world into submission.   Instead, Americans gave the
    >equivalent of billions dollars, to help europe to recover from a war
    >which the europeans started.

You apparently forget who used the first atomic bomb to bring Japan into 
submission.

Now every one knows what your meaning of "maturity" is.
/* ---------- */

And it's a bloody damn good thing we bombed Japan. Since you apparently
have as yet to reach a level of maturity that includes study of what
happened in the past, let me fill you in on some figures for that.

The estimated loss of American lives for Operation Olympic was 50,000
("Operation Olympic, the Invasion of Japan 1 November 1945", Simulations
Publications, Inc. (R.I.P.)). I don't have figures for the estimated
Japanese losses, but figures an order of magnitude higher than those for
the Americans wouldn't surprise me. [Side note: the disparity is caused by
the Japanese Using second line and militia units for the defense of the
Japanese Islands.]

Now, compare those numbers to the number of Japanese killed by the two
American bombs: 80,000 in Hiroshima, 40,000 in Nagasaki (Encyclopedia
Britannica). Lets call it 150,000, and throw in another 300,000 for those
killed by radiation exposure, etc. That gives us a figure of 450,000 dead,
whereas the highest figure I recall seeing in print for the total killed is
400,000. That's comparable to the losses for Operation Olympic.

Since you probably don't know, Operation Olympic was the planned invasion
and conquest of the southern half of Kyushu, the southernmost of the
Japanese Islands. The purpose was to gain enough territory to build a safe
airstrip so that supplies could be ferried in for the *main* invasion.  I
don't think anyone has figures for what that would have cost in lifes for
either side, but the Japanese propaganda was that Japan would not surrender
while there was a Japanese living.

Like I said, it's a good thing we nuked Japan. Not because the nuking was
in and of itself good, but because it was so much better than the
alternative (and Operation Olympic - or something similar - was the only
viable alternative).

To add to your now vastly improved store of historical knowledge, I might
point out that there was some pressure from high in the Allied ranks in
Europe after VE day to take the largest land army ever assemblied, add in a
fair fraction of the surrendered German WehrMacht, and dismantle the Soviet
Union while we had the chance. Given the Atomic Bomb, we would certainly
have succeeded. America *could* have established a "Pax Americana" by
force, but declined to do so. To my knowledge, this is a unique event in
history.