Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 8/23/84; site ucbcad.UUCP
Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!ucbvax!ucbcad!faustus
From: faustus@ucbcad.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: Re: gunpoint
Message-ID: <2732@ucbcad.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 9-Oct-84 23:15:55 EDT
Article-I.D.: ucbcad.2732
Posted: Tue Oct  9 23:15:55 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 11-Oct-84 04:20:08 EDT
References: <1717@inmet.UUCP>
Organization: UC Berkeley CAD Group, Berkeley, CA
Lines: 54

> Not everything the government does is extortion.  Some of its 
> activities are quite beneficent.  The problem is that those
> activities, unless funded entirely by fees, are paid for by 
> money taken by force.  

So? That's not extortion, because the government does it, and the majority
of people in the US support this form of tax collection. The difference
between "extortion" and "legitimate use of force" is whether it's done
by private individuals or by a democratically elected government.

> Fine.  Libertarians would (in general) be the last to insist
> that anybody give them something they had not paid for.  

Show me a libertarian who would prevent the fire department from putting
out a fire in his house because he did't pay taxes (and was too lazy
to subscribe to a private fire department).

> Jim Lewis, the Libertarian candidate for
> US Vice President, has not paid federal income tax for 3 years
> (this was his answer to a NY talk show host's question about what
> impact his philosophy has had on his own life.  HE DOES IT FOR
> MORAL AND LEGAL REASONS, NOT BECAUSE HE WANTS A FREE RIDE.

Convenient, isn't it?

> Leaving roads and defense aside, what does the federal government do
> with your taxes?  Of course, you pay for these even if you don't "use"
> them:
> 
> 	Dairy farm price supports, Tobacco price supports (and
> 	ongoing cancer/cigarette research), covert aid to
		(and so on)

I never said that that I like what is being done with tax revenues. I think
that a lot of the things you mention should be eliminated. But the best
(and only) way to get rid of these things is by legitimate means, not
by refusing to pay taxes and refusing to recognise the government's
authority.

> Crowing about how responsible you are, and not even questioning how
> worthwhile the cause is that you're championing (government action)
> doesn't strike me as all that responsible.  

I'm championing the government's basic right to tax people, not the 
things that they are using tax money for now.

> Don't you understand?  I don't want to tax you to accomplish my goals.
> I'd willingly forgo public roads, public libraries, and the rest, were
> they not implemented in such a way as to destroy any private alternatives.

Then do something about it -- vote for people who will implement things
like that properly. (Or run for office yourself.)

	Wayne