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From: bch@mcnc.UUCP (Byron Howes)
Newsgroups: net.motss,net.religion
Subject: Re: Gay Rights
Message-ID: <2240@mcnc.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 23-Sep-84 12:38:36 EDT
Article-I.D.: mcnc.2240
Posted: Sun Sep 23 12:38:36 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 26-Sep-84 04:45:44 EDT
References: <174@usfbobo.UUCP>, <1136@pyuxn.UUCP>, <180@usfbobo.UUCP>, <2796@allegra.UUCP>, <183@usfbobo.UUCP>
Organization: North Carolina Educational Computing Service
Lines: 72

Yipes!  I find that I am ashamed that David Brunson and I are in any
way affiliated with the same organization.  (I graduated from USF some
15 years ago.)  Suppose, however, the Bill of Rights had never been
passed.  Given my current opinion of Mr. Brunson my version of his
example might go something like this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Suppose that I am an employer and that the federal government
has just outlawed discrimination on the basis of religious preference.
One of my employees comes out of the closet.  I confront him
about it and he confirms that he definitely engages in Christian
acts and intends to continue doing so.  Being a caring, loving
person, and not wanting to see him continue in a lie unchallenged
and so confuse himself and others, I immediately fire him.  He goes
to the local Labor Relations Board (or whatever) and reports me.
A few days later a social worker comes out to the office and the
following dialogue happens:
--
"Mr. Howes, we've just gotten a complaint that you've terminated
an employee, a Mr. Brunson, without adequate reason.  Can you explain?"

"Sure, always glad to help the government!  Mr. Brunson practices
Christianity.  I found out about it and fired him!"

"Mr. Howes, it is my duty to advise you that unless you reinstate
Mr. Brunson immediately, you are subject to [lawsuits, fines, whatever].
Will you comply?"

"Not until he *stops* repenting."

"Ahh, I see."  [scribbles something in a notebook and leaves]
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[My comments on the some of the rest of his article follow:]

>>Suppose I refuse to sell my home to homosexuals?  Suppose I work in
>>a government agency and refuse to award contracts to homosexual
>>businessmen?  Would you have me "educated" about "tolerance" in
>>counseling sessions?  That won't work.  I've already had 16 years
>>of that kind of "education" and haven't learned the lesson yet.

No, I'd probably have you fined and put in the slammer.  While I may
be a caring person, the kind of attitude and activity you describe
would be definitely illegal.  Since I wouldn't want you to engage in
such a lie, I'd let the government put you someplace to think about it
for a while.

>>Here's the issue:  do you advocate federal legislation/mandates/whatever
>>that would recognize homosexuals as a protected minority.  Why?  What
>>specifically do you propose?  How will you simultaneously protect those
>>who obstinately refuse to accept your concept of "tolerance"?

This is not the issue, by your own example.  What we are talking about
is essential civil rights as guaranteed by the Constitution and upheld
by the supreme court.  There are lots of people in this world whose
activities I dislike;  Nazis, Moonies, prostelytizing right-wing Chris-
tians, wife-beaters, people who rip articles out of library periodicals,
jaywalkers, creationists, trekkies and people who post to multiple
newsgroups to name a few.  It is my right to dislike them, but it is
not my right to abridge their rights as members of this society because
of that dislike.

I don't believe anyone, but you, is talking about giving gays
"protected minority" status in the legal sense of the word.  Minority
quotas, contract obligations and so forth are *your* Phyllis Shlaflyisms
designed to conjure meaningless spectres in others minds.  A lie is
a lie not only when it is about fact, but when it is about potential.


-- 

						Byron C. Howes
				          {decvax|akgua}!mcnc!ecsvax!bch