Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site tektronix.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!hou3c!hocda!houxm!houxz!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!moiram
From: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison )
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Lifespring, est, etc.
Message-ID: <2733@tektronix.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 8-Jun-84 16:11:30 EDT
Article-I.D.: tektronix.2733
Posted: Fri Jun  8 16:11:30 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 10-Jun-84 00:30:36 EDT
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 106


What I notice in these responses are that the people who are saying, "don't"
are the ones who haven't been there and the ones who are saying "you might
want to" are the ones who have.  From another one who has:

My variety was a Self-Esteem Workshop sponsored by a small company in San
Francisco, Motivation Management Service.  My experience was similar to 
Bruce's and to Steve's, so I won't dwell on that, but I do want to counter
Randwulf and Nigel Sharp.

	Randwulf says:

	The people who were basket cases were so wretchedly unhappy
	that since they've been brought to the level of happiness
	of most people, they think it's great. 

Well, I didn't have a happiness thermometer, but I don't think I was a
basket case when I decided to take it.  I was vaguely dissatisfied with 
some parts of my life.  But I was stumbling along as effectively as most
of the people I knew. 
	
	I don't think that these organizations can tell me anything
        I don't know.

You are absolutely right on about this.  MMS comes right and says, 'we
don't have any answers.  *You* have the answers.  But you're not used
to looking to yourself for them, because there are a lot of people
out there telling you that they know better than you do.'  It comes
down to a matter of learning to trust my own feelings, intuitions,
in spite of various folks telling me that I don't know.  You seem
to have a clear sense of self, and are willing to accept the accounta-
bility for your life not being exactly the way you want it.
But there's a continuum between basket cases and Randwulfs (-ves?), not set
disjunction!  And many of the humbler beings along that continuum did not
survive adolescence with those qualities intact.  MMS doesn't deal with 
folks who "need" anything.  It is rather like an adventure.

	Nigel says:

	...shared suffering builds lasting bonds...

	...They are all a mild form of brainwashing based on the psycho-
	logically attractive stand that "it's not your fault"...

        ...I don't like to pontificate without data...

	...Before you ask, I have not taken any of these courses...

***FLAME ON***

Whew, boy! you seem to know a whole lot about it for not having experienced
any of them...and I take offense at lumping est, Scientology and Moonies
all into the same category...but, then you are probably further down
the basket case-Randwulf continuum than I am!...and if you don't like to
pontificate without data, why are you posting an article about an 
*experiential process* which you have not had the *benefit* of experiencing?

***FLAME OFF***

Ahem...quite to the contrary, my dear Nigel, the point is not "it's not
your fault", but more concisely, "what was in the past is past and it
doesn't matter who was to blame.  What you do about it now is completely
up to you.  If your life is not exactly the way you want it, then it's up
to you to make it that way."  What is in the way for most people is FEAR.
The workshop provides an absolutely safe environment to get past some
of the obstacles we put in our way.  No one is forced (explicitly or 
implicitly) to participate in sharing personal experiences if that is 
agonizing to them...there is an explicit agreement about confidentiality.
In the workshop I was in, no one was forced to do or not do anything including
leaving the room to go to the bathroom.  It was made sufficiently difficult
because people tend to find reasons to avoid particularly difficult parts
of the workshop.

	est basically teaches that nobody else's opinion matters.

I'm not going to defend est here because although I sometimes enjoy pointi-
ficating without data, its the "nobody else's opinion matters" part that
I want to address.  If somebody else doesn't like me that *is* his/her
problem!  I am a special, unique powerful human being  (and I'm not as happy
as I could be either) and if a person can't see that it is either
because I'm building walls because I'm afraid to let him/her know it, or
he/she is nearsighted.  The walls are something I can deal with and it 
makes sense to put energy into them.  The blindness I can do nothing about
(except maybe change who I am, but *why* would I want to do that?) and so
its a waste of energy to bother about it. One of my favorite quotes (it
puts a perspective on relationships of all kinds):

	Don't take any of this personally. I'm merely reacting to you
	the way I'd react to anybody who represents to me what you 
	represent to me.

I have been involved in both the experiential workshop and conventional
therapy (Randwulf will never believe I wasn't a basket case!), and 
both have had value for me. The experiential workshop is not a quick 
solution as Wendy suggests; its just a beginning.

...and another fancy phrase (so frequently used by friends and myself 
during that era that I've come to think it as the heading for that 
chapter in my life):

	The truth of the matter is, I haven't got a clue!
				
				Moira Mallison
				tektronix!moiram