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From: jho@ihuxn.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: A non Jew on the term goy
Message-ID: <704@ihuxn.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 3-Jun-84 15:01:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxn.704
Posted: Sun Jun  3 15:01:29 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 5-Jun-84 19:29:03 EDT
References: <390@houxu.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 36

From Larry Welsch:

>For crying out loud, if people are offended by being called goys then they
>are offended.
If people are offended by the term goy then it should not be used.

>Next, I really think that there is something wrong when someone says
>
>	I agree "goy" is a neutral term when applied to non-Jews.
>
>	It is a different story when this term is applied to Jews.
What I meant, if someone uses this term to denote a non-Jew, the intentions
of the user of the term are not derogatory.  On the other hand, when one Jew 
labels another Jew as a goy it is the intention of the user to use it as
a demeaning expression.  Note, I am only talking here on the motives of the
users of this expression, not from the perspective of the individuals 
"covered" by this expression.

>I got news for you, if the term is offensive to you then it is probably
>doubly offensive to me.

I did not say that I was offended by being labeled as a goy, I was not.
(Using a simple mathematical rule - multiplication by zero - we may
infer that you are not actually offended by this term.)

Seriously,I agree with you that an expression should not be used to describe
a group of people, if this group considers the expression derogatory or
insulting.  The feeling of the objects of such expression are more
important than the intentions of the users of the expression.
-- 

Yosi Hoshen
Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois
(312)-979-7321
Mail: ihnp4!ihuxn!jho