Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-orac!butenhof From: butenhof@orac.DEC (Dave Butenhof, VAX-11 RSX AME) Newsgroups: net.startrek Subject: STIII Message-ID: <1473@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Wed, 13-Jun-84 20:35:11 EDT Article-I.D.: decwrl.1473 Posted: Wed Jun 13 20:35:11 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 21-Jun-84 02:53:10 EDT Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 64 > 3. How can Spock remember his last words to Kirk, if he > memory-dumped to McCoy *before* then? (this is actually an excerpt from sf-lovers, not net.startrek, but the same objection has been raised here) Easy -- I was visiting my parents over the past weekend and watched STII on my father's RCA videodisk player. I noted with interest that the EXACT same conversation ("The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one; I have been and always will be, your friend") took place at the beginning of the movie! Therefore, Spock was not remembering the final conversation in the engine room, but rather, the EARLIER conversation. Oh, and in line with the now well-known "Remember" line before Spock killed himself (one wonders why they didn't just have him take the time to find a radiation suit before going inside, and save themselves the trouble of resurrecting him, by the way), I noticed after that, as Kirk, McCoy, and others watch the Genesis nebula from the bridge, McCoy comments "Spock will never be dead, as long as we remember him ..." or words closely to that effect. All in all, I liked the movie. I came out of the theatre feeling disappointed, but not quite certain of why. On reflection, and after reading all the messages over the net, I've decided that I liked it: I'd even like to see it again. I think it was a simpler plot line than STII. It was, after all, really only an epilogue to STII -- it simply tied up the remaining plot thread (Spock). There was less of the bold sense of adventure; they were rehashing old things, rather than doing new things. But the characterisations were good, particularly the primary ones, and more like the TV characters than in the other movies. In STII, after the horrendous STI, I felt that we could see our old friends again. With STIII, I feel that they once again walk among us. The old Saavik was indeed better (even though I think the difference is mostly attributable to writing and directing, rather than to the actress herself). I guess we all pay the price of Kirstie's greed. I think Chris Lloyd did well as a Klingon. Indeed, there were uncomfortable shades of Taxi drifting throught the theatre. The problem is not with the actor, but with the audience, however. We've let ourselves type-cast him; not his fault. I think it's too bad they killed him off. On the other hand, maybe he'll be replaced by a Klingon who's had his forehead cleaned and pressed recently ... As for the mess they all should be in at the end, it looks bad. STIV should be interesting. There are some good sides, however -- they prevented a war with the Klingons (had they succeeded in getting Genesis, they would surely have gone to war: that's quite a weapon). They saved the Federation the expense of dismantling (or whatever) an obsolete starship, etc. Someone's suggestion that Kirk would be demoted to Captain and sent out on a mission was pure brilliance ... slightly too "pat," but far better than most of the other likely resolutions. I have mixed emotions about the Excelsior class ship ... it looks funny, and certainly is not as sleek as the Enterprise; but I'll reserve judgement for now. We'll see, we'll see ... December 85 or bust! /dave orac::butenhof (enet) decwrl!rhea!orac!butenhof (the cold and cruel world outside) (no company name or address 'cause we've been tolded not to! so who really cares, anyway?)