Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ucbvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!floyd!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittvax!decvax!ucbvax!daemon From: daemon@ucbvax.UUCP Newsgroups: net.nlang.greek Subject: Re: Poiotiko Alma (Spyrakis) (net-forw #51) Message-ID: <973@ucbvax.UUCP> Date: Mon, 4-Jun-84 23:53:52 EDT Article-I.D.: ucbvax.973 Posted: Mon Jun 4 23:53:52 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Jun-84 19:25:18 EDT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.UUCP Organization: U.C. Berkeley Lines: 98 From: Manolis KatevenisO Pavlos Spyrakis thigei merika lepta kai simantika simeia sto prosfato minima tou me titlo "Poiotiko Alma", kai ypotitlo "Kairos na papsoume na eimaste "symmoria"". Tha prospathisw na dwsw merikes apantiseis, opws tis blepw egw. Nomizw oti tin "ilektroniko-tachydromiki mas enwsi" prepei na tin blepoume kati san "radiofwno", H san "news-letter", kai ta dyo chwris editor: O opoiosdipote thelei mporei na leei to o,tidipote thelei se "olous" (broadcasting protocol). Ex' allou, autin akribws tin morfi echoun ta perissotera news-groups sta UUCP news. Auto apantaei mia seira apo erwtimata: -- poios einai melos? o opoiosdipote echei account se ypologisti pou syndeetai me ta uucpnet, arpanet, csnet, kai endiaferetai na mas akouei H/kai na mas milaei. -- poies einai oi (dimokratikes) arches stin antallagi gnwmwn? i anarchia! opoios thelei leei o,ti thelei. Ws gnwsto, gia na daktylografiseis ena minima theleis toulachisto merika lepta, enw gia na sbiseis ena minima apo to tachydromiko sou kouti theleis mono 1 deuterolepto. Malista, uparchoun kai eidika programmata pou sbinoun automata ola ta eiserchomena minimata pou proerchontai apo kapoio(a) sygkekrimeno proswpo(a)! Etsi, an kapote diapistwsoume oti kapoios stelnei poly ..."tho- rybo", mporoume na ton sbisoume apo ti lista apodektwn aposto- lewn pros emas. Fysika, oloi xeroume oti ta buletin-boards sta diafora panepistimia douleuoun me ton idio tropo kai echoun schetika mikra problimata. -- oriothetisi (distinction) apo alles organwseis? emeis den eimaste organwsi! Ti organwsi apoteloun osoi diabazoun to Romatzo stin Ellada, syn osoi grafoun s' auto? Ti organwsi apoteloun autoi pou kolane anakoinwseis kai autoi pou tis diabazoune sto dia- dromo tou 3ou orofou twn "Newn Ktiriwn" tou Polytechneiou stin Athina? Fysika, merikes apo tis parapanw apantiseis einai mallon aplo:i:kes -- apantane ston typo kai ochi stin ousia. Tha prospathisw na apeuthynthw kai se merika themata ousias: -- "autoi pou echoun logariasmo se ypologisti briskountai se pleonektiki thesi enanti autwn pou den echoun". Nai, einai alitheia, alla to idio ischyei kai me polla alla pragmata sti zwi: opws kapoios allos elege, osoi echoun lefta na pane sto exwteriko gia meta- ptychiakes spoudes einai se pleonektiki thesi. Osoi echoun radiofwno brachewn einai stin pleonektiki thesi oti mporoune na akoune eidiseis apo tin Ellada. Osoi echoune lefta na pane diakopes stin Ellada to kalokairi, einai stin pleonektiki thesi na synantisoun endiaferontes anthrwpous ekei. Klp, klp.... Apo tin alli meria, i ilektroniki mas epikoinwnia mporei na parakinisei perissterous ellines na synithisoun na cheirizountai ton ypologisti san ergaleio, to opoio einai kerdos!... -- "metaxy autwn pou echoun prospelasi sta diktya kykloforei "kleisti enimerwsi"". DEN pisteuw oti i enimerwsi pou kykloforei metaxy mas einai kleisti. Nomizw oti einai poly anoichtoteri ap' oti itan prin, me ta proigoumena mesa. Paradeigma: otan perysi to kalokairi prokyrichtikan oi theseis D.E.P. stin Kriti, eicha parei tilefwno tous foititkous syllogous pou ixera (Berkeley, Bostwnis), epaggelmatikous syllogous (Dimokrito, Bostwni), kathws kai osous anthrwpous atomika ixera, gia na tous enimerwsw gi' autes tis prokirixeis. H enimerwsi auti den tha itan poly apotelesmatikoteri an, epi pleon, mporousa na steilw kai ena minima sto net-nlang-greek ? Den echw kamia amfibolia oti ta nea pou kykloforoun mesw tou net-nlang-greek ftanoun se poly kosmo exw apo autous pou echoume logariasmo se ypologistes otan einai simantika kai tous aforoun. Den echw kamia amfibolia oti ta simantika nea tha metadidontai se foititkous kai epaggel- matikous syllogous apo tous diaforous apo emas. Kai erchomaste sto thema tis eidikeusis twn syzitisewn se themata ypo- logistwn/pliroforikis. Profanws, i twrini katastasi eiani oti oi perissoteroi apo emas pou echoume log/mo se ypologistes eimaste foitites H epistimones tis Pliroforikis (H ilektrologias). Auto mas kanei na misotautizoume to net-nlang-greek me diktyo thematwn Pliroforikis. Si- goura, auto tha allaxei (prepei na allaxei) ta epomena chronia, kathws oi ypologistes kai ta diktya tha ginountai ftinotera kai perissotera. Se kapoia stigmi, tha barethoume oloi na akoume ola osa lene oloi, giati tha echoume ginei polloi kai ta themata pou tha syzitiwntai tha einai polla. TOTE (kai ochi anagkastika twra) tha einai i stigmi na dimiourgithoune ypo-omades, analoga me ta endiaferonta. Twra, an thelete, mporoume na syzitisoume kai to epomeno thema: autoi pou eimaste se pliroforiki, kai pou epikoinwnoume mesw ypologistwn, mporoume na thewrisoume oti apoteloume mia omada pou mporei na kanei sfigmometriseis (= anepisimes psifofories) metaxy tis, kai na pairnei apofaseis gia diafora themata pou den aforoun mono emas? Nomizw pws safws OCHI. Chwris parapanw organwsi kai antiproswpeutikotita, den eimaste para ena poly mikro kai tychaio pososto twn ellinwn se Plirofo- riki, kai ara, pera apo alliloenimerwsi kai gnwmes den mporoume tipota allo na kanoume. Fysika, opws polloi tha xerete, yparchei i E.P.Y., i Elliniki Enwsi Epistimonwn Pliroforikis kai Ypologistwn (i epikra- testeri ap' oti fainetai apo tis dyo schetikes epaggelmatikes enwseis stin Ellada), tis opoias mporoume kai --nomizw-- prepei na eimaste meli, kai i opoia mporei na paixei rolous pou emeis den mporoume. An kapoios xerei perissotera panw s' autes tis dyo enwseis, mporei na mas pei? Auta gia simera, kai pollous chairetismous. Manolis.