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From: daemon@ucbvax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.nlang.greek
Subject: Re: Poiotiko Alma (Spyrakis) (net-forw #51)
Message-ID: <973@ucbvax.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 4-Jun-84 23:53:52 EDT
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.973
Posted: Mon Jun  4 23:53:52 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 7-Jun-84 19:25:18 EDT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.UUCP
Organization: U.C. Berkeley
Lines: 98

From: Manolis Katevenis 
O Pavlos Spyrakis thigei merika lepta kai simantika simeia sto
prosfato minima tou me titlo "Poiotiko Alma", kai ypotitlo "Kairos
na papsoume na eimaste "symmoria"".  Tha prospathisw na dwsw merikes
apantiseis, opws tis blepw egw.

Nomizw oti tin "ilektroniko-tachydromiki mas enwsi" prepei na tin
blepoume kati san "radiofwno", H san "news-letter", kai ta dyo chwris
editor:  O opoiosdipote thelei mporei na leei to o,tidipote thelei
se "olous" (broadcasting protocol).  Ex' allou, autin akribws tin morfi
echoun ta perissotera news-groups sta UUCP news.  Auto apantaei mia
seira apo erwtimata:
-- poios einai melos? o opoiosdipote echei account se ypologisti pou
	syndeetai me ta uucpnet, arpanet, csnet, kai endiaferetai na
	mas akouei H/kai na mas milaei.
-- poies einai oi (dimokratikes) arches stin antallagi gnwmwn?
	i anarchia! opoios thelei leei o,ti thelei.  Ws gnwsto, gia
	na daktylografiseis ena minima theleis toulachisto merika
	lepta, enw gia na sbiseis ena minima apo to tachydromiko sou
	kouti theleis mono 1 deuterolepto.  Malista, uparchoun kai
	eidika programmata pou sbinoun automata ola ta eiserchomena
	minimata pou proerchontai apo kapoio(a) sygkekrimeno proswpo(a)!
	Etsi, an kapote diapistwsoume oti kapoios stelnei poly ..."tho-
	rybo", mporoume na ton sbisoume apo ti lista apodektwn aposto-
	lewn pros emas.  Fysika, oloi xeroume oti ta buletin-boards sta
	diafora panepistimia douleuoun me ton idio tropo kai echoun
	schetika mikra problimata.
-- oriothetisi (distinction) apo alles organwseis?  emeis den eimaste
	organwsi!  Ti organwsi apoteloun osoi diabazoun to Romatzo stin
	Ellada, syn osoi grafoun s' auto?  Ti organwsi apoteloun autoi
	pou kolane anakoinwseis kai autoi pou tis diabazoune sto dia-
	dromo tou 3ou orofou twn "Newn Ktiriwn" tou Polytechneiou stin
	Athina?

Fysika, merikes apo tis parapanw apantiseis einai mallon aplo:i:kes --
apantane ston typo kai ochi stin ousia.  Tha prospathisw na apeuthynthw
kai se merika themata ousias:

-- "autoi pou echoun logariasmo se ypologisti briskountai se pleonektiki
	thesi enanti autwn pou den echoun".  Nai, einai alitheia, alla
	to idio ischyei kai me polla alla pragmata sti zwi: opws kapoios
	allos elege, osoi echoun lefta na pane sto exwteriko gia meta-
	ptychiakes spoudes einai se pleonektiki thesi.  Osoi echoun
	radiofwno brachewn einai stin pleonektiki thesi oti mporoune
	na akoune eidiseis apo tin Ellada.  Osoi echoune lefta na pane
	diakopes stin Ellada to kalokairi, einai stin pleonektiki thesi
	na synantisoun endiaferontes anthrwpous ekei. Klp, klp....
		Apo tin alli meria, i ilektroniki mas epikoinwnia mporei
		na parakinisei perissterous ellines na synithisoun na
		cheirizountai ton ypologisti san ergaleio, to opoio
		einai kerdos!...
-- "metaxy autwn pou echoun prospelasi sta diktya kykloforei "kleisti
	enimerwsi"".  DEN pisteuw oti i enimerwsi pou kykloforei metaxy
	mas einai kleisti.  Nomizw oti einai poly anoichtoteri ap' oti
	itan prin, me ta proigoumena mesa.  Paradeigma: otan perysi to
	kalokairi prokyrichtikan oi theseis D.E.P. stin Kriti, eicha
	parei tilefwno tous foititkous syllogous pou ixera (Berkeley,
	Bostwnis), epaggelmatikous syllogous (Dimokrito, Bostwni),
	kathws kai osous anthrwpous atomika ixera, gia na tous enimerwsw
	gi' autes tis prokirixeis.  H enimerwsi auti den tha itan poly
	apotelesmatikoteri an, epi pleon, mporousa na steilw kai ena
	minima sto net-nlang-greek ?   Den echw kamia amfibolia oti
	ta nea pou kykloforoun mesw tou net-nlang-greek ftanoun se
	poly kosmo exw apo autous pou echoume logariasmo se ypologistes
	otan einai simantika kai tous aforoun.  Den echw kamia amfibolia
	oti ta simantika nea tha metadidontai se foititkous kai epaggel-
	matikous syllogous apo tous diaforous apo emas.

Kai erchomaste sto thema tis eidikeusis twn syzitisewn se themata ypo-
logistwn/pliroforikis.  Profanws, i twrini katastasi eiani oti oi
perissoteroi apo emas pou echoume log/mo se ypologistes eimaste foitites
H epistimones tis Pliroforikis (H ilektrologias).  Auto mas kanei na
misotautizoume to net-nlang-greek me diktyo thematwn Pliroforikis. Si-
goura, auto tha allaxei (prepei na allaxei) ta epomena chronia, kathws
oi ypologistes kai ta diktya tha ginountai ftinotera kai perissotera.
Se kapoia stigmi, tha barethoume oloi na akoume ola osa lene oloi,
giati tha echoume ginei polloi kai ta themata pou tha syzitiwntai
tha einai polla. TOTE (kai ochi anagkastika twra) tha einai i stigmi
na dimiourgithoune ypo-omades, analoga me ta endiaferonta.

Twra, an thelete, mporoume na syzitisoume kai to epomeno thema: autoi
pou eimaste se pliroforiki, kai pou epikoinwnoume mesw ypologistwn,
mporoume na thewrisoume oti apoteloume mia omada pou mporei na kanei
sfigmometriseis (= anepisimes psifofories) metaxy tis, kai na pairnei
apofaseis gia diafora themata pou den aforoun mono emas?  Nomizw pws
safws OCHI.  Chwris parapanw organwsi kai antiproswpeutikotita, den
eimaste para ena poly mikro kai tychaio pososto twn ellinwn se Plirofo-
riki, kai ara, pera apo alliloenimerwsi kai gnwmes den mporoume tipota
allo na kanoume.  Fysika, opws polloi tha xerete, yparchei i E.P.Y.,
i Elliniki Enwsi Epistimonwn Pliroforikis kai Ypologistwn (i epikra-
testeri ap' oti fainetai apo tis dyo schetikes epaggelmatikes enwseis
stin Ellada), tis opoias mporoume kai --nomizw-- prepei na eimaste
meli, kai i opoia mporei na paixei rolous pou emeis den mporoume.  An
kapoios xerei perissotera panw s' autes tis dyo enwseis, mporei na mas
pei?

Auta gia simera, kai pollous chairetismous.
Manolis.