Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site qubix.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!floyd!cmcl2!seismo!hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!sdcsvax!dcdwest!ittvax!decvax!decwrl!sun!qubix!jeff From: jeff@qubix.UUCP Newsgroups: net.auto Subject: Re: Muscle_Car != Sport_Car (Corvette too rough?/real Muscle car) Message-ID: <1165@qubix.UUCP> Date: Mon, 4-Jun-84 21:30:48 EDT Article-I.D.: qubix.1165 Posted: Mon Jun 4 21:30:48 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Jun-84 19:26:45 EDT Organization: Qubix Graphic Systems, Saratoga, CA Lines: 83 I read with a great deal of interest the responses to the question of '84 Vette Stiffness/handling/comfort. Strange - all these people were voicing opinions and passing judgement and none had actually driven an '84 Vette! I've put about 4400 miles on my '84 Vette (with Z51- but of course!) and I have something to say, but first I'd like to respond to Dick Lincoln's assertion that the '84 Vette is not a muscle car cause real muscle cars do 12 second quarter miles. I' ve never read anything anywhere that is more true or accurate than his response to muscle cars. I step on the gas and ask myself "where's the horsepower"?? It's true - the '84 is a slug. It feels like maybe a 15.0 to 15.5 second car. Of course it is probably the fastest (least slow) car made in the US today but OF COURSE it isn't a muscle car!! Guess what - Detroit hasn't MADE a muscle car in 13 years! Fortunately Chevy still makes and sells powerful motors, they just don't put them in the cars they sell. They expect you to do that yourself. Go back to the parts counter and buy an L-88 short block and some open chambered heads, put together your rat motor, and go fast. I was truly disappointed when I read that Chevy softened up the suspension in the '85 Vette. It's bad enough that they messed up the base suspension, but they also weakened the Z51. What astounds me is the automotive press complains (Car and Driver etc.) that the suspension is too stiff and these are SPORTS CAR magazines?? OF COURSE the car rides rough you idiots! It's suppose to! You don't buy a 'Vette if you want creature comforts. If I didn't want to feel any bumps I would have bought a Caddy. The truth is that the Z51 pack- age is a very good compromise between comfort and handling. If anything the suspension could be stiffer, it certainly does'nt toss me around like my '66 with F41 suspension. Despite the extremely comfortable ride, the handling of my '84 defies description. Two things are absolutely remarkable - cornering force and road feel (i.e. steering response). My '66 Vette may actually generate as much sideways G's but the feel of the two cars is as different as night and day. The steering response makes all the difference. I just can't believe the wimps who ride in a 'Vette and whine "it's too rough! I can feel the bumps!". Another thing I don't understand is the direct contradiction in Guy Harris' response. Actually, he's just repeating something he heard but he says "I've heard that the Corvette achieves it's (good) handling at the expense of "refinement" - i.e. the ride is rather rough and that detracts somewhat from the "fun-to drive" aspect of the car." So going by that reasoning, the softer the suspension, the more fun a car is to drive. That means that a big limo would be the funnest car to drive and a Can-Am racer would be a terribly boring car to drive. And since it's a fact that the stiffer the suspension the better a car handles that means the better a car handles, the less fun it is to drive!? Shows you how screwed up I was -- I always thought the better the handling the more fun to drive. In another response Guy Harris talks about the "Best Handling American Car" article in Car&Driver. I read that story and I found the conclusion they came to absolutely baffling. Their data showed the 'Vette had MUCH better cornering, MUCH better steering response ("Knife-edged" is how they described it) than the Z-28 so their conclusion is that the 'Vette handles MUCH worse than Z-28!! Therefore, great cornering and great steering response equals bad handling. Now that's certainly logical! I would beg to disagree with Guy when he says the staff of Car&Driver "aren't exactly the sort of people who want a sports car with the ride of a Cadillac". Apparently a Cadillac ride is EXACTLY what they would want in a sports car. Guy also talks about the test at Firebird raceway. Since the '85 Vette yielded faster lap times than the '84, that means the '85 suspension is better, right? That was the conclusion reached. Hey, wait a second! The '85 had 15% more horsepower! That's why the lap times were better!! In fact, I read a report by an Autoweek reporter and he said the '85 had worse road feel than the '84. He said that he thought the skid-pad performance would be about the same cause of the wider wheels and bigger anti-roll bar. Well I don't think the skid pad numbers will be as good for the '85, but we will have to wait a few more months to find out. Doesn't matter anyway cause how the car FEELS is what's important and from what I've read the feel of the '85 isn't as good. And even if the bigger tires and bigger anti-roll bar did make up for the softer suspension, if the good springs from the '84 were used on the '85 it would be better still and the name of the game is suppose to be "make it as good as possible". In all fairness to Guy, he appears to be mostly repeating what he has read and not necessarily agreeing with it. -- Jeff Buchanan @ QUBIX Graphic Systems, Inc., Saratoga, CA. ...{decvax,ucbvax,ihnp4}!decwrl! ...{ittvax,amd70}!qubix!jeff decwrl!qubix!jeff@Berkeley.ARPA