Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site tekecs.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!zehntel!tektronix!orca!tekecs!jeffw From: jeffw@tekecs.UUCP (Jeff Winslow) Newsgroups: net.music,net.music.classical Subject: Misconceptions regarding atonality Message-ID: <3852@tekecs.UUCP> Date: Sat, 16-Jun-84 16:56:43 EDT Article-I.D.: tekecs.3852 Posted: Sat Jun 16 16:56:43 1984 Date-Received: Fri, 22-Jun-84 05:27:51 EDT Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR Lines: 39 First off, Rich, I'm not sure why you think the passage leading into the Finale of the Firebird is so radical. Parsifal has passages of more ambiguous tonality than that (see the Prelude to act 3). I will say, though, that the total musical effect of the Stravinsky example has a magic that the Wagner example can't match. One of life's smaller frustrations is attending a performance of Firebird with a bunch of dance fanatics who blithely (and loudly) applaud the Firebird dancer after the Berceuse, brutally drowning said magical moment in white noise. But to the point: Let's imagine a succession of works in which temporary tonal centers change more quickly as one goes along the succession. Make the harmony more complex (11ths, 13ths etc.) at the same time. Sooner or later you will reach a piece where you (yes, even *you*, Rich) will say, "I can't make any tonal sense out of this piece." Note - tonal sense, not musical sense. That would (ideally) still be there. Now, that's not because the piece has no tonal information. It's just become less important than the other musical cues which are present. These works are referred to as atonal. That's just a way of saying the tonal information present is not the compelling structure that it is in works we call "tonal". It's not saying there's *no* tonality. Don't be fooled by leading a-'s. Example: Schoenberg's (oh, him again) Book of the Hanging Gardens. Supposedly atonal, but you listen to the second song and tell me it's atonal with a straight face. Good luck. Later on, when the 12-tone theory was invented, something different did indeed occur, but the kind of "atonality" practiced by Schoenberg between op. 12 and op. 26 was no break with tradition. Remember, historically, chromaticism did lead to "atonality". You can theorize all you want, but those theories (unsterbliche oder nicht) are going to have to account for that. that's enough now, Jeff Winslow