Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site tektronix.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!hou3c!hocda!houxm!houxz!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!moiram From: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison ) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Lifespring, est, etc. Message-ID: <2733@tektronix.UUCP> Date: Fri, 8-Jun-84 16:11:30 EDT Article-I.D.: tektronix.2733 Posted: Fri Jun 8 16:11:30 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Jun-84 00:30:36 EDT Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR Lines: 106 What I notice in these responses are that the people who are saying, "don't" are the ones who haven't been there and the ones who are saying "you might want to" are the ones who have. From another one who has: My variety was a Self-Esteem Workshop sponsored by a small company in San Francisco, Motivation Management Service. My experience was similar to Bruce's and to Steve's, so I won't dwell on that, but I do want to counter Randwulf and Nigel Sharp. Randwulf says: The people who were basket cases were so wretchedly unhappy that since they've been brought to the level of happiness of most people, they think it's great. Well, I didn't have a happiness thermometer, but I don't think I was a basket case when I decided to take it. I was vaguely dissatisfied with some parts of my life. But I was stumbling along as effectively as most of the people I knew. I don't think that these organizations can tell me anything I don't know. You are absolutely right on about this. MMS comes right and says, 'we don't have any answers. *You* have the answers. But you're not used to looking to yourself for them, because there are a lot of people out there telling you that they know better than you do.' It comes down to a matter of learning to trust my own feelings, intuitions, in spite of various folks telling me that I don't know. You seem to have a clear sense of self, and are willing to accept the accounta- bility for your life not being exactly the way you want it. But there's a continuum between basket cases and Randwulfs (-ves?), not set disjunction! And many of the humbler beings along that continuum did not survive adolescence with those qualities intact. MMS doesn't deal with folks who "need" anything. It is rather like an adventure. Nigel says: ...shared suffering builds lasting bonds... ...They are all a mild form of brainwashing based on the psycho- logically attractive stand that "it's not your fault"... ...I don't like to pontificate without data... ...Before you ask, I have not taken any of these courses... ***FLAME ON*** Whew, boy! you seem to know a whole lot about it for not having experienced any of them...and I take offense at lumping est, Scientology and Moonies all into the same category...but, then you are probably further down the basket case-Randwulf continuum than I am!...and if you don't like to pontificate without data, why are you posting an article about an *experiential process* which you have not had the *benefit* of experiencing? ***FLAME OFF*** Ahem...quite to the contrary, my dear Nigel, the point is not "it's not your fault", but more concisely, "what was in the past is past and it doesn't matter who was to blame. What you do about it now is completely up to you. If your life is not exactly the way you want it, then it's up to you to make it that way." What is in the way for most people is FEAR. The workshop provides an absolutely safe environment to get past some of the obstacles we put in our way. No one is forced (explicitly or implicitly) to participate in sharing personal experiences if that is agonizing to them...there is an explicit agreement about confidentiality. In the workshop I was in, no one was forced to do or not do anything including leaving the room to go to the bathroom. It was made sufficiently difficult because people tend to find reasons to avoid particularly difficult parts of the workshop. est basically teaches that nobody else's opinion matters. I'm not going to defend est here because although I sometimes enjoy pointi- ficating without data, its the "nobody else's opinion matters" part that I want to address. If somebody else doesn't like me that *is* his/her problem! I am a special, unique powerful human being (and I'm not as happy as I could be either) and if a person can't see that it is either because I'm building walls because I'm afraid to let him/her know it, or he/she is nearsighted. The walls are something I can deal with and it makes sense to put energy into them. The blindness I can do nothing about (except maybe change who I am, but *why* would I want to do that?) and so its a waste of energy to bother about it. One of my favorite quotes (it puts a perspective on relationships of all kinds): Don't take any of this personally. I'm merely reacting to you the way I'd react to anybody who represents to me what you represent to me. I have been involved in both the experiential workshop and conventional therapy (Randwulf will never believe I wasn't a basket case!), and both have had value for me. The experiential workshop is not a quick solution as Wendy suggests; its just a beginning. ...and another fancy phrase (so frequently used by friends and myself during that era that I've come to think it as the heading for that chapter in my life): The truth of the matter is, I haven't got a clue! Moira Mallison tektronix!moiram