Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fortune.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!fortune!crane From: crane@fortune.UUCP (John Crane) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Posted as per requested... Message-ID: <3548@fortune.UUCP> Date: Wed, 6-Jun-84 19:36:25 EDT Article-I.D.: fortune.3548 Posted: Wed Jun 6 19:36:25 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Jun-84 19:14:41 EDT References: <1202@sun.uucp> Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA Lines: 67 Did you know that programmers as a group are discriminated against. We are often categorized as super techie nerds who wear glasses and carry hex calculators around on our belts. They say we can't write coherent English and should never be let out of our cubicles except under leash and muzzle, etc. Pretty ridiculous isn't it? I stretched the truth above to make a point. But there is also some truth. However, I'm not aware of any net group where people do nothing but moan and groan about how unfair society is to them because they are programmers. There are other interest groups on the net as well. The people in those groups like to discuss the joys and pitfalls of C, UNIX, nude underwater unisex backpacking or whatever. Net.religionists get off on flaming each other. (I finally wised up and got out of that mess.) Net.flamers get off on flaming, pure and simple. Again, nobody sits around bitching about how tough life has been to them because of some proclivity in their makeup which causes them to take an avid interest in whatever. Then we come to net.motss. I realize that this is MORE than an INTEREST group. The word "interest" implies something casual, like somebody said taste in classical music, etc. I also agree that its MORE than a choice. Its something a person apparently is born with. We aren't even just talking about sexual preference. Ladies and gentlemen, I submit to you that we are talking about very fundamental attributes of a person's personality -- all of the above plus how the person views the world, the person's perception of what is beautiful or ugly, their perceptions of human relationships. No, I'm not talking about a Sunday afternoon jaunt through the Castro, I'm talking about paying the deposit and moving in, lock, stock, and barrel. I had a roomate who once counseled me about a very tempestuous relationship I was having: "You gotta take the shit along with the sugar". I realize that the gay life is very hard. If anybody thinks a person CHOOSES to be gay, guess again. It is very nice sometimes, but it can be hell. I won't discount the fact that there are bigoted creeps running around condemning everything they don't understand in the name of science, religion, parenthood, and everything in between. It is tough growing up gay. It is tough comming out to yourself, it is tough living with yourself, it is tough dealing with people who don't understand. Socienty CAN be oppressive. I grant all of you all of that. How does one effectively combat that? Certainly not, I hope, by being just as oppressive right back. We have to stick together as a community. We need this news group among other things. However, what unites us? What holds us together? Holding a collective chip on our collective shoulders and waiting for somebody or some group to knock it off? Why not something positive instead? It's easy to tell what a lot of the Gay community is against, but what are they for? What does the Gay community have to offer the straight world besides protests and outrageous and alienating behavior? I don't think we necessarily need to discuss ballet and cooking. But I don't think a steady diet of politics, protests, and boo hooing about unfair other people are is too digestible either. I think it's time to come down off the cross and STOP BEING VICTIMS and start LIVING as human beings. Lets discuss the Gay perception of life. Lets start building or pointing to some role models that many people say are lacking among gay people. Accenting the positive aspects of life is NOT pretending that the negative one don't exist. It's back to looking at the rose or the thorn. Is the glass half empty or half full? I know its trite, but as they say (trite also) if the shoe fits, ... John Crane