Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site rochester.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!houxz!vax135!floyd!cmcl2!seismo!rochester!blenko From: blenko@rochester.UUCP (Tom Blenko) Newsgroups: net.arch,net.followup,net.micro Subject: Re: AT&T vs. the toolkit approach Message-ID: <7378@rochester.UUCP> Date: Tue, 12-Jun-84 22:27:09 EDT Article-I.D.: rochester.7378 Posted: Tue Jun 12 22:27:09 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 13-Jun-84 06:57:59 EDT References: <77@mouton.UUCP> Organization: U. of Rochester, CS Dept. Lines: 45 I think that AT&T is responding to the marketplace - not the hacker marketplace, but the real world one they hope will buy their machines. Where are all these real-world people? Apollo has some 2000 units in the field. Sun has a couple of hundred, I would guess. How many of these are give-aways? How many went to hackers of one sort or another? How many are actually used by these application-oriented people? Would you put up with Unix for $20K with only binaries, even though you DO know something about it? Essentially, MSD*S comes with very few programs and as therefore quite cheap to license on a mass basis (I heard $8/CPU for lots of CPUs). Everyone buying personal computers running MSD*S or equivalent then goes out and pays extra for the programs they really want. I think AT&T is trying to structure their marketing the same way. OK, if you believe AT&T wants the OEM market only (that's not what you imply, or what I believe). Otherwise, Johny Smith, Inc. can port all those Unix commands, and undersell AT&T any day of the week. And AT&T also isn't prepared to ship lots of end-user-type application software. I've worked for two companies that shipped Unix boxes, and this approach was discussed at both. It was strictly a martketing scheme to get a little sugar on top (or make the basic machine look cheaper, however you like). In some ways this seems to be a sign of a willingness of AT&T to help it's System V resellers. If only 3B's had System V then they could give away the software if you bought the machine. However, if other companies port System V to other machines, then AT&T stands to gain more by not making it too expensive to put on those other machines, hence the MSD*S type strategy of buy what things you want. If System V resellers aren't selling 3B's, just cheap AT&T (system) software, how does AT&T make any money? AT&T certainly isn't going to guarantee that their Unix commands will run on everyone else's hardware. And if AT&T is charging a bundle for the commands anyway, why wouldn't the reseller port the commands herself, and take the profits instead of handing them on to AT&T? Tom