Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxq.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!mgnetp!ihnp4!ihuxq!ken
From: ken@ihuxq.UUCP (ken perlow)
Newsgroups: net.politics,net.misc
Subject: Re: Communist Attrocities in Vietnam
Message-ID: <994@ihuxq.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 10-Jun-84 22:07:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: ihuxq.994
Posted: Sun Jun 10 22:07:14 1984
Date-Received: Mon, 11-Jun-84 06:24:51 EDT
References: <973@ihuxq.UUCP>, <272@cepu.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL
Lines: 69

--
>> Ken Perlow states that we couldn't have won in Vietnam.

>> Ken, pardon my French but, that's *Bullshit*.
>> We \*W O N*/ the Military war.
>> Each and every battle we won, after the Tet offensive
>> the Viet-Cong did not exsist (what passed for Viet-Cong
>> were mostly North Vietnamese) as a military force (much
>> to the joy of Hanoi).  Anywhere our troops wanted
>> to go, they went (some times they had to fight to get there,
>> but they always got there).

That's a fascinating definition of "winning", Steve.  We could go
anywhere we wanted, except we sometimes had to fight.  Enertain us
some more, why don't you, with a definition of "losing."

>> What we lost was the political war, a failure of courage on
>> the part of our leaders.  Mainly because they tried to win the
>> war cheaply instead of trying to just win...

>> Stephen C. Woods

How soon we forget--unless you're too young to remember.  See, back in
'54 the French lost the Battle of Dien Bien Phu to the Viet Minh.
In the partition of Indo-China that followed the French withdrawal,
there was (note the absence of directional prefix word) Vietnam, and
in an election the Vietnamese elected their hero, Ho Chi Minh.  At
some point here, the CIA intervened, and set up a good puppet, Ngo
Dinh Diem, in the south.  We partitioned Vietnam because we didn't like
who they elected.  Of course, a lot of Vietnamese didn't much care for
who we installed, so we had to keep propping up the regime.

From the word go, the government in the south was as ruthless and
autocratic as that in the north.  How could we win this "political
war"?  What choice did the south offer the Vietnamese?  It sure
wasn't freedom, except maybe freedom to starve.  Aren't people
funny sometimes?  When they get hungry enough, Communism seems
downright attractive.

Now note that I am not defending the practices of North Vietnam,
not in '54, not in '75, not now.  But what we were fighting for over
there was a myth--the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was also pure myth.
It was, well, what it was comes out best in the chorus to Phil Ochs's
"Send the Marines":

               For might makes right,
	       Until they've seen the light.
	       They've got to be protected,
	       All their rights respected,
	       Until someone we like can be elected.
	       The members of the Corps
	       All hate the thought of war.
	       They'd rather kill them off by peaceful means.
	       We've got to let them really know
	       That we support the status quo.
	       They love us everywhere we go,
	       So when in doubt, send the Marines!

But dream on if you wish, Steve.  If you're young enough, you might be
lucky enough to be cannon fodder for America's next grand
experiment at being cops of the world.  I'm too old to be drafted now,
but I'll march again like I did then to get you home in one piece.
-- 
                    *** ***
JE MAINTIENDRAI   ***** *****
                 ****** ******    10 Jun 84 [22 Prairial An CXCII]
ken perlow       *****   *****
(312)979-7261     ** ** ** **
..ihnp4!ihuxq!ken   *** ***