Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxt.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!floyd!vax135!houxz!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxt!martillo From: martillo@ihuxt.UUCP (Yehoyaqim Martillo) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Usage of the Word Goy Message-ID: <557@ihuxt.UUCP> Date: Mon, 4-Jun-84 11:28:58 EDT Article-I.D.: ihuxt.557 Posted: Mon Jun 4 11:28:58 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 6-Jun-84 01:02:50 EDT References: <798@akgua.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 107 Since people have dumped on me enough for finding offense where there is none, I wish to point out to Larry Welsh and Bob Brown that they are simply wrong. Goy is generic for non-Jew or for non-Jewish male. It has no inherent negative meaning; however, if the local non-Jews are treating the local Jews badly, the word will acquire a negative meaning. Likewise, Tedesco (German) in Italian has no inherently negative meaning, but if Germans were rampaging through Italy the word might acquire negative connotations. The feminine form is Goyah. Originally, the word Goy simply meant tribe or nation just like Latin gens. Israel is described as goy qados:, a nation apart. Then the word acquired a derivative meaning to describe people not from `am yis:ra'el, the nation of Israel. Goy came to describe a member of a tribe (which is not Israel). This is exactly equivalent to the Latin derivative from gens (gentis) -- gentilis which becomes in English gentile. A better equivalent would be tribesman. The word has nothing to do with faith in God or lack of faith in God. When the temple existed in Jerusalem, the priests used regularly to make sacrifices to God on behalf of Goyim. A few years ago, my cousin Nissim Falaji had a Japanese guest staying with his family. She was a Hebrew speaker and knew more about Jewish customs and learning than most American Jews. On the Sabbath she would sometimes help the Falajis with tasks, which Jewish Law forbids a Jew from doing on Shabbat. I remember her asking rhetorically once something like: Zeh lo' re`ayon ra` lehaknis 'oraxat bas:abat 'af 'im 'o 'ulay beglal shehi' goyah? It's not a bad idea to welcome a guest on the Sabbath even if or perhaps because she is a goyah, is it? I suppose `arelah could have been used, but this word has extra connotations and Setsuko was not a Christian. Yapaniyah (Japanese) would not have made much sense. As for the question of goyish education, if LW had read the article in net.women, he would have realized the statement would have been hard to make according to his suggestion. In order to live in this world a child must acquire three types of knowledge (I am using Maimonides category slightly modified); Intellectual (scientific, between man and nature), moral (between man and God), and practical-social-political (between man and man). Scientific knowledge is not ethnic-group specific and is not pertinent to the discussion. But many different approaches to moral and to practical-social-political problems are possible. Probably -- with no aspersion toward other peoples moral or social political systems -- most Jewish parents would prefer their children approach issues like abortion or sexual morality or like welfare or crime from a Jewish standpoint. The starting point for Jews to approach moral and social-political knowledge is contained in the Jewish Bible and Talmud which is not studied in our way in the type of school Shava Nerad probably attended. The Bible and the Talmud provide the historical intellectual matrix for Jews to approach reality morally and politically. The founding fathers of the USA used Greek and Roman political and moral literature likewise. Similarly the Chinese (before they went communist) had their own wisdom literature. Only some of the ideas in such wisdom literature show real universality. In fact the ideas which a child will acquire from a Western liberal arts education, which acquaints a child with the current Western wisdom literature, can be quite antithetical to Jewish values (e.g. the idea of romantic love as portrayed in Romeo and Juliet). There is nothing wrong with learning about the value systems of other peoples if a person has a need (face it how often do we use Shakespeare or T.S. Eliot in daily life), but since there is no equal time for Jewish ideas in western educational institutions (nor is there any obvious reason why there should be) before a Jewish student studies in such a place he should have a solid background in Jewish learning. Only by serious Jewish learning can Jews maintain their own cultural ethnic group. If anyone sees something wrong with Jews' maintaining their own cultural traditions while they live in the USA, he has a problem of intolerance. Maintaining such cultural traditions requires endogamy but being endogamous is our own decision. Saying we are wrong to be endogamous is like saying we are wrong to stay Jewish. Personally, I am not bothered that Vietnamese in the USA wish to maintain their own traditions and one method they use is endogamy. Nor does it bother me that my friend Setsuko considers me a gaijin and would never consider me as a husband. These considerations are her business, and I do not see how Japanese wishing to maintain their Japanism or Vietnamese wishing to maintain their Vietnamism or Jews wishing to maintain their Jewishness is insulting or threatening to Westerners, unless Westerners suffer from massive cultural insecurity. -- Yehoyaqim Shemtob Martillo (An Equal Opportunity Offender)