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From: mjk@tty3b.UUCP (Mike Kelly)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Sam Hall and Vietnam
Message-ID: <385@tty3b.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 20-Jun-84 12:14:21 EDT
Article-I.D.: tty3b.385
Posted: Wed Jun 20 12:14:21 1984
Date-Received: Thu, 21-Jun-84 07:35:39 EDT
Organization: Teletype Corp., Skokie, Ill
Lines: 36

For those of you who missed his gem, Sam Hall compared my comments 
on Vietnam to a defense of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.   

First, I did not mean to imply that the Vietnamese government is
to be admired.  I certainly recognize the abuses of power (indeed,
I noted them in my original article).  What I did mean to point out
is the arrogance of Americans towards this tiny nation.  First we
bomb it to hell, defoliate it (which is worse than it sounds, since
no one knows what the long term effects will be of massive defoliation),
murder thousands of people on both sides and then claim that we were
only trying to help.  We deny our own responsibility, and try to cover
it up -- one article I read today even tried to argue
that bombing resulted in better rice growing conditions!!

I don't claim a strong knowledge of European history, but it seems to
me that it is quite possible that the actions of France, Britain and
the U.S. following WW I strongly contributed to the rise of fascism
in Germany.  The Marshall Plan following WW II is partly evidence of the
lesson learned by the Allies.   

There is also a profound difference here: Germany lost
the war, and was forced to settle on undesirable terms.   Vietnam "won"
the war (in the sense that a government the U.S. did not install now
rules the country), but what a phyrric victory!  In a sense, the U.S.
was forced to settle on unfavorable terms so that "peace with dignity"
could be claimed.   Of course, it  turned out not to matter since once
the last helicopter left, the State Department figuratively tore up the
treaty it negotiated and has steadfastly ignored it ever since.  But
that's one of perogatives of empire: you can do whatever the hell you
please.

And in response to your "consistency test", no, I don't believe in aid
to South Africa.  Consistency is  less important to me than morality.

Mike Kelly