Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-vaxuum!dyer From: dyer@vaxuum.DEC (Real Programmers Eat Quiche) Newsgroups: net.jokes Subject: Re: The Jews of Rome (Not Offensive?) Message-ID: <1481@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Thu, 14-Jun-84 08:19:35 EDT Article-I.D.: decwrl.1481 Posted: Thu Jun 14 08:19:35 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 21-Jun-84 03:08:47 EDT Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 75 Re: The Jews of Rome (Not Offensive?)__________________________________________ [I posted this rather long joke before, and it apparently got mangled at some sites. Due to popular demand, I'll post it again. My apologies to anyone who doesn't want to read it again.] Back in medieval times, a thoroughly apocryphal story tells us, the Roman Pope was persuaded by some of his more conservative advisers to endure no lon- ger the presence of Jews in the very heart and core of world Christianity. The Jews of Rome were therefore ordered evicted from their homes by a certain date. To the Jews of Rome this was a great tragedy, for they knew no refuge where they might not expect worse treatment than in Rome. They appealed to the Pope for reconsideration and the Pope, a fair-minded man, suggested a sporting prop- osition. If the Jews would appoint one of their own number to engage in a de- bate with him, in pantomime, and if the Jewish representative were to win the debate, the Jews might remain. The Jewish leaders gathered in the synagog that night and considered the proposition. It seemed the only way out but none of their number wished to volunteer to debate. As the chief rabbi said, "It is impossible to win a de- bate in which the Pope will be both participant and judge. And how can I face the possibility that the eviction of the Jews will be the result of my specific failure?" The synagog janitor, who had been quietly sweeping the floor through all this, suddenly spoke up. "I'll debate," he said. They stared at him with astonishment. "You, a cheap janitor," said the chief rabbi, "debate with the Pope?" "Someone has to," said the janitor, "and none of you will." So in default of anyone else, the janitor was made the representative of the Jewish community and was appointed to debate with the Pope. Then came the great day of the debate. In the square before St. Peter's was the Pope, surrounded by the College of Cardinals in full panoply, with crowds of bishops and other churchly functionaries. Approaching was the Jewish jani- tor, surrounded by a few of the leaders of the Jewish community in their somber black garb and their long gray beards. Pope faced janitor, and the debate began. Gravely, the pope raised one finger and swept it across the heavens. With- out hesitation the janitor pointed firmly toward the ground, and the Pope look- ed surprised. Even more gravely, the Pope raised one finger again, keeping it firmly be- fore the janitor's face. With the trace of a sneer, the janitor raised three fingers, holding the pose just as firmly, and a look of deep astonishment cros- sed the Pope's face. Then, the Pope thrust his hand deep into his robes and produced an apple. The janitor thereupon opened a paper bag that was sticking out of his hip pock- et and took out a flat piece of matzo. At this, the Pope exclaimed in a loud voice, "The Jewish representative has won the debate. The Jews may remain in Rome." The janitor backed off, the Jewish leaders surrounded him, and all walked hastily out of the square. They were no sooner gone than the church leaders clustered about the Pope. "What happened, Your Holiness?" they demanded. "We did not follow the rapid give-and-take." The Pope passed a shaking hand across his brow. "The man facing me," he said, "was a master of the art of debate. Consider! I began the debate by sweeping my hand across the sky to indicate that God ruled all the universe. Without pausing an instant, that old Jew pointed downward to indicate that nev- ertheless the Devil had been assigned a dominion of his own below. "I then raised one finger to indicate that there was but one God, assuming I would catch him in the error of his own theology. Yet he instantly raised three fingers to indicate that the one God had three manifestations, a clear acceptance of the doctrine of the Trinity. "Abandoning theology, I produced an apple to indicate that certain blind up- holders of so-called science were flying in the face of revealed truth by de- claring the Earth was as round as an apple. Instantly, he produced a flat piece of unleavened bread to indicate that the Earth, in accord with revela- tion, was nevertheless flat. So I granted him victory." By now, the Jews and the janitor had reached the ghetto. All surrounded the janitor, demanding, "What happened?" The janitor said indignantly, "The whole thing was nonsense. Listen. First the Pope waves his hand like he's saying 'The Jews must get out of Rome.' So I point downward to say 'Oh yeah? The Jews are going to stay right here.' So he points his finger at me as if to say 'Drop dead, but the Jews are leaving.' So I point three fingers at him to say 'Drop dead three times, the Jews are stay- ing.' So then I see he's taking out his lunch, so I take out mine."