Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1a 12/4/83; site rlgvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!hou3c!hocda!houxm!houxz!vax135!floyd!cmcl2!seismo!rlgvax!guy From: guy@rlgvax.UUCP (Guy Harris) Newsgroups: net.followup,net.micro Subject: Re: AT&T and the 3B*2 Message-ID: <2002@rlgvax.UUCP> Date: Fri, 8-Jun-84 21:16:02 EDT Article-I.D.: rlgvax.2002 Posted: Fri Jun 8 21:16:02 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 10-Jun-84 00:16:18 EDT References: <692@cp1.UUCP> <483@spuxll.UUCP> <143@pertec.UUCP> Organization: CCI Office Systems Group, Reston, VA Lines: 61 > Why does having a C compiler mean that you have to be a C programmer? You > should take a look at what has happened over the past several years in the > realm of public-domain software. There are quite a number of computerized > "bulletin board" systems around the country (world?). Software is put into > the public domain by people who want to share their work with the rest of > the world. > Sadly, this (getting runnable binary copies of the aforementioned software) > may not be the case with UNIX. If you want to run my netnews reader, you > better have a 68000-based system that understands my type of binary files. > You have a VAX? Then you better have a C compiler. Oh, you don't have YACC? > Then how are you going to compile the "getdate" routine? If the 3B2 is being sold as a small UNIX box for business use, this is probably an atypical use of such a machine. The point being made in a lot of this discussion is simply "When you build your model of the typical computer user, forget that any of the current computer-hacker culture exists. Assume that the typical purchaser has never heard of C except as a buzzword, has never heard of YACC at all, and has nobody in house knowledgable enough to even run "make" - and has no reason whatsoever to spend money to hire such a person." This user would have to find somebody with a binary copy of this program - surely there'd be a 3B User's Group which could make such software available, or could at least point the user at somebody who does have it available in binary form. Actually, there are several points being discussed here: 1) Would the typical purchaser of, say, a 3B2 be able to use software development tools, and even if they could would they want to? They have to weigh benefits and costs. People who can work with UNIX and C cost money. Public-domain software can cost money - such a shop may not be able to support such software, and if nobody else will they can't depend on it for the operation of their business. Any programs that take up disk space cost money - disk drives are not free. 2) Should all systems offering UNIX come with every single piece of the variety of UNIX offered pre-installed on their disks? I think the answer is clearly "no". Keeping all of System V, or 4.2BSD, or probably even V7 online would require a large disk or would leave very little space for users. Why should they pay for the large disk, or suffer with limited user space, when they will probably never use (directly or indirectly) most of that software? 3) Should such unbundled systems offer the optional components at extra cost, or should the user get full UNIX but divided into several option packages? This depends on whether there are significant extra costs involved in providing the full system (medium (sic) costs are probably not significant), such as support costs or costs due to amortizing the cost of developing that software, and, alas, on which scheme makes the vendor more money. Not all vendors are as altruistic as we hackers are :-), so they may decide to charge extra for the add-ons for the simple reason that they *can*. That's capitalism, folks. AT&T isn't selling 3Bs to offer computer power to the world, they're doing it to obtain a return on their investment. No moral point intended here, by the way. Guy Harris {seismo,ihnp4,allegra}!rlgvax!guy