Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site cornell.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!vaxine!wjh12!genrad!grkermit!masscomp!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!ihnp4!zehntel!hplabs!hao!seismo!cmcl2!floyd!vax135!cornell!daemon From: daemon@cornell.UUCP Newsgroups: net.lang Subject: Re: Gotos in programming languages Message-ID: <243@cornell.UUCP> Date: Wed, 30-May-84 19:54:17 EDT Article-I.D.: cornell.243 Posted: Wed May 30 19:54:17 1984 Date-Received: Thu, 7-Jun-84 00:16:54 EDT Sender: daemon@cornell.UUCP Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept. Lines: 33 From: Pavel.pa@XEROX.ARPA Nessus, In reference to your `brash statement', ``If in an introductory programming course, you teach anything other than an object oriented programming language, such as Lisp, CLU, or Smalltalk (sorry folks, Pascal does not count), you are brain-damaging your students almost as much as if you taught them Basic,'' I must admit to being completely in the dark as to your definition of `object oriented'. If it means the late-binding of procedures on the basis of the type of one or more of their arguments, then neither CLU nor LISP (in general, unless you were referring to Flavors) support this style. If you just mean an ability to cluster the operations of an abstract type into a black box, then Smalltalk and CLU get in, but LISP still remains in the cold. I personally favor the first definition, but don't see how CLU gets in there at all (by LISP I'll assume you mean the Flavors-enhanced variety). Could you please explain? Also, I would be very interested in a more complete description of your views regarding this `brain-damage' you speak of. Two major questions come to mind immediately: What bad habits and wrong thinking are being forced onto these students by non-object-oriented languages and what are the important attributes of the languages that fit your definition of object-oriented that prevent this damage? I have my own answers to these questions but would be interested in seeing yours. Pavel Curtis Computer Science Laboratory Xerox Palo Alto Research Center decvax!cornell!pavel Pavel.pa@Xerox.ARPA