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From: henry@utzoo.UUCP (Henry Spencer)
Newsgroups: net.micro,net.research,net.cse
Subject: Re: First Summary of PC's in Education Survey
Message-ID: <3638@utzoo.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 13-Mar-84 19:58:23 EST
Article-I.D.: utzoo.3638
Posted: Tue Mar 13 19:58:23 1984
Date-Received: Tue, 13-Mar-84 19:58:23 EST
References: <3619@utzoo.UUCP>, <3501@utcsrgv.UUCP>
Organization: U of Toronto Zoology
Lines: 76

Well, here's my rebuttal to Steve's rebuttal...

   1) I don't love 8088's but they aren't as bad as Henry seems to think.  If
   all courses had to use IBM PC's, they would be almost as good

Senior courses using non-trivial software packages will be badly hurt
by the 8088's awful 16-bittisms and its dismal speed.  I don't agree
that they are suitable for all courses; they are only marginally suitable
for the lowest-level courses.

   2) The situation at the U. of T. is so bad that the students cannot complete
   assignments.  1/2 as many Mac's would be WORSE (100% certainty).  Offloading
   the intro courses to PC's would allow full use of the COMPUTING power of the
   IBM's and Vaxen for courses that need the power.

   3) The situation requires action.  8088's are ideal for the current needs and
   will be used.  68000/16032 systems are the unquestionned future but we need
   them now.  

What does "now" mean?  If we are talking about major offloading of the
central machines, my impression is that this *isn't* going to happen
overnight.  If nothing else, the administration is going to have to be
talked into buying *lots* of personal machines, and this administration
has a history of grossly underestimating the amount of interactive access
needed for intro teaching.  (My impression is that this is as big a problem
as overloading, although admittedly the delays due to overloading worsen
the finding-a-free-terminal problem.)

Given that there is going to be a non-trivial delay before personal machines
have a large impact on local computing, it might well make sense to opt for
a better personal machine.  Macintoshes are available *now* -- they are the
present, not the future.  By the time we have enough personal machines
to have a large offloading effect, it may be very hard to change machines
because of the immense inertia.

Which leads to:  just how wide is the conviction that "68000/16032 systems
are the unquestioned future"?  Once upper management at places like UTCS
gets its collective mind locked into "IBM PC", or some such similar track,
it's going to take a long time to get it unlocked.  If we cannot get
decent machines right away, it is *vital* that there be an immediate and
strong commitment to upgrading as soon as possible.  Otherwise we will
still be buying PCs in 1999.  Do not forget what a powerful effect the
IBM marketing hype has on "professional managers".

	- students own THESE machines, almost none (none?) own promises of
	    Mac's.

So we're going to encourage students to buy a machine that we plan to
abandon in a couple of years anyway?  This sounds like a recipe for being
stuck with the PC for the indefinite future to me.  And if the machines
owned by students now are considered a major factor, what about those
poor souls who aren't rich enough to own one?  Do they get screwed?  If
not, why are the existing student-owned machines so important?

	We aren't stupid, we're just making the best of the situation.  Talk
	to me again next year and we'll be up on 68000's, 16000's, and almost
	anything else there is a crying need for.  But 8088's are the 
	(qualified) BEST choice NOW!

Note what I said above about the time required to have a major impact.
By the time we can get enough 8088s to help, they will be obsolete.

	And if you don't agree, try teaching a
	course on one of the currently overloaded machines!

No thanks, I do have some idea what it's like.  I also have some glimpse
of what it'll be like teaching 8088-based courses 15 years from now.
I'm glad I'm not teaching at all.

I have continued to post to the world, rather than follow Brian's
suggestion of more localized discussion, because I continue to think
that much of this stuff is of wide interest.  The mail I've received on
the matter has agreed with me.
-- 
				Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
				{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry