Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ut-sally.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!harpo!seismo!ut-sally!riddle
From: riddle@ut-sally.UUCP (Prentiss Riddle)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.nlang
Subject: Re: The power of words -- German generic pronouns
Message-ID: <1003@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 26-Feb-84 13:17:03 EST
Article-I.D.: ut-sally.1003
Posted: Sun Feb 26 13:17:03 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 29-Feb-84 13:15:50 EST
References: <5766@decwrl.UUCP>
Organization: U. of Tx. at Houston-in-the-Hills
Lines: 50

This is a minor point, but Jerry Boyajian (akov68!boyajian) writes:

 >> ...as I said before, German has a generic "she" (*sie*), rather than
 >> a generic "he"; their culture is no more nor less oppressive of women
 >> than any other human culture.

Sorry, but this isn't true.  There are a number of third-person generic
pronouns in German:

"man"    This corresponds more or less to the English "one", although
	 it is much more frequently used than "one".  It has no gender
	 and can only be used in the nominative case.  (Ex:  "Wenn man
	 'cat' tippt, sieht man den Inhalt der Datei." When one types
	 'cat', one sees the contents of the file.)

"einer"  The indefinite article, used like "man" above but much more
	 versatile than "man", since it can run the full gamut of case
	 and gender and even includes negative forms ("keiner", etc.).
	 Unlike "man", it is not genderless; as with English generic
	 pronouns, if the correct gender is known, it should be used;
	 otherwise the default is the masculine.  (Ex: "Wenn einer
	 'cat' tippt, sieht einer den Inhalt der Datei."  When one
	 types 'cat', one sees the contents of the file.)


"du/Sie" The forms of "you", often used informally for generic purposes
	 in German as in English.  (Ex: "Wenn du 'cat' tippst, siehst
	 du den Inhalt der Datei."  When you type 'cat', you see the
	 contents of the file.)  [Note that the polite form "Sie" has
	 nothing to do with the feminine third-person pronoun "sie".]

"er"     The normal masculine third-person singular pronoun, used like
	 the English "he" to refer to an antecedent of uncertain
	 gender.  (Ex: "Wenn der Benutzer 'cat' tippt, sieht er den
	 Inhalt der Datei."  When the user types 'cat', he sees the
	 contents of the file.)

Note that "der Benutzer" is masculine and forces the following pronoun
to be masculine, unlike a genderless English noun such as "user".  From
the point of view of those who would eradicate sexual distinctions from
language, this is a major advantage which English has over German.  For
instance, one can speak of a "doctor" in English and leave the gender
ambiguous, while German always forces one to choose between "der Arzt"
(male doctor) and "die Aerztin" (female doctor).  In my opinion, the
problem of gender in generic pronouns pales in comparison to that of
professional nouns in languages like German.

--- Prentiss Riddle
--- ("Aprendiz de todo, maestro de nada.")
--- {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!riddle