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From: gds@mit-eddie.UUCP (Greg Skinner)
Newsgroups: net.religion,net.philosophy
Subject: time
Message-ID: <1382@mit-eddie.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 1-Mar-84 14:28:40 EST
Article-I.D.: mit-eddi.1382
Posted: Thu Mar  1 14:28:40 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 3-Mar-84 07:42:45 EST
Organization: MIT, Cambridge, MA
Lines: 49

I think that the concept of "before time" is fairly ludicrous, for a
couple of reasons.

1. It is generally held that time is circular, like the universe.

2. If time isn't circular, it runs from -inf to +inf, like a time line.

In any case, before time makes no sense.  About "outside time", it is
postulable that a being could exist "out of time", that doesn't
necessarily make him exist for all time, but just that he is not
constrained to the flow of time.  I have considered what would be
mathematically necessary for someone to travel in time (not just faster
than "c", but to be able to traverse the time line/circle just as we
traverse a highway or the globe).  It would be necessary for that being
to "step out" of the time stream, i.e. to extend his "navigable"
universe into the fourth dimension.  An example.

Consider an ant walking a wire of infinite length and zero width.
Also assume it is impossible for him to fall off, therfore he can only
go forwards and backwards.  Also assume the ant is of zero mass/volume.
(try hard :-)  For him then, the universe is parameterized as

f(x,t), where x is the forward/backward distance he travels, and t is
        the time for traveling from point x1 to x2.  

Note that he has no concept of y or z -- although they exist (as we
observe them) they do not exist for him because it is impossible for him
to travel in them.  Now, if we replace the wire with a flat plane, his
parameters now increase to (x,y,t).

Now consider "us".  We live in the three-dimensional world,
parameterized by f(x,y,z,t).  Like the ant had no navigational ability
of y and z, we cannot navigate t.  We are subject to the flow of t, but
cannot move independently of t.  For us to move "outside of time", we
must move out of 3-space into 4-space, into something like (x,y,z,t,q).
Far be it for me to fingure out what q is though.

I hope I haven't lost anybody.  My main point was to illustrate that
"before time" is not relevant, but God probably exists outside of time
in the sense that he is able to travel within it and not necessarily
that he exists at every point in time.

Back to flamage :-)
-- 
By the power of Grayskull!

Greg-bo, Prince of Eternia, Defender of the Secrets of Castle Grayskull
{decvax!genrad, eagle!mit-vax, ihnp4}!mit-eddie!gds (UUCP)
Gds@XX (ARPA)