Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site qubix.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!harpo!decvax!decwrl!sun!qubix!steven From: steven@qubix.UUCP (Steven Maurer) Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers Subject: Re: THENDARA HOUSE Message-ID: <931@qubix.UUCP> Date: Fri, 16-Mar-84 13:27:05 EST Article-I.D.: qubix.931 Posted: Fri Mar 16 13:27:05 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 18-Mar-84 08:01:57 EST References: <17319@sri-arpa.UUCP> Organization: Qubix Graphic Systems, Saratoga, CA Lines: 60 x I state: > >> In Thendara House, not a man from either > >> culture is presented as a loving, caring person; in NONE of [MZB]'s > >> books, does any "good" male protagonist like the society he are > cjh replies: > This statement, however, can be tested > objectively: both parts are horseshit, pure and simple. Perhaps SM didn't > bother finishing the book; Damon Ridenow[-Alton?] and Andrew Carr appear > rather late, but both of them certainly qualify as "loving, caring > person[s]"; the fact that Damon is turns out to be one of the key > elements in the book. Perhaps you should re-read my statement more carefully. I am talking about Thendara House, not The Forbidden Tower. In Thendara House, Damon and Andrew simply are presented simply as somewhat atypical nobility -- there is almost no exploration of their character at all, since the parts that they play are practically walk on bits. I realize that Damon and Andrew in Thendara House are NOT presented as total assholes, like every other male in the book, but this hardly misqualifies what I have said. cjh continues: > > The second part requires a little more knowledge of the Darkover books, > but I would definitely point to Danilo [Syrtis? S-Ardais? in HERITAGE OF > HASTUR, and SHARRA'S EXILE], and add Lew Alton after his father's death, > several of the characters in HAWKMISTRESS, all but one of the men in the > reworking of THE BLOODY SUN, and even Regis Hastur himself (RH dislikes > the constraints on him of being the heir-designate but is no revolutionary, > not even on the quiet level of Damon in THE FORBIDDEN TOWER)---and this > is a list from the top of my head. I deliberately omit all of the early > works since they are primarily adventure stories rather than people stories. Oh I am not saying that all her good male protagonists turn out to be total revolutionaries against their own culture (only half do), even MZB has too much a sense of reality for that. It is just that EVERY good protagonist seems to spend at least 5 pages throughout every book deploring the culture in which he was born. Danilo, Lew, Damon, and Regis certainly do..... Now before you go to bed tonight, think about the likelihood of that happening -- every single goodguy is at least a rebel sympathiser -- a secret feminist even though the word hasn't been invented yet. I believe that just about as much as I believe that all women are secret mashochists -- just like it says in the GOR books.... MZB cannot seem to create a character which does not fit into her goodguy/badguy mold: For example, a man who loves his wife and children (golly, maybe he dosen't even beat her when their baby turns out to be a girl), but sure as hell isn't going to give them any modern-day freedoms... Steven (horseshit, pure and simple) Maurer