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From: david@randvax.ARPA (David Shlapak)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: re: re: grass roots politics, antinukes
Message-ID: <1743@randvax.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 7-Mar-84 18:53:18 EST
Article-I.D.: randvax.1743
Posted: Wed Mar  7 18:53:18 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Mar-84 11:01:01 EST
References: <408@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>, <202@menlo70.UUCP>
Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica
Lines: 82


    First of all, Rex, I think I have to take back most of the nice things
    I've said and thought about you...

    I think there's a very fine semantic distinction between "violence" and
    "non-violence" that you're hiding behind...I'm sure neither you nor
    any other Abalone bopped any construction worker with a brick; however,
    by physically interposing yourself between them and their jobs you
    forced them to make a choice between removing you, and hence themselves
    resorting to violence, or standing around waiting for you to leave.
    This is a positive incitement to violence, violenece for which you and
    your cohorts would have to bear full responsibility...I would call
    that "semi-violent."

    >   We have been struggling at the polls, writing to legislators,
    >   debating in courtrooms, etc., for years, and continue to do so.
    >   However, if you haven't learned the American Golden Rule yet:
    >
    >       *******************************************
    >       * Them that has the gold makes the rules. *
    >       *******************************************

    Sure Rex...that's why women got the vote, blacks got to sit at lunch
    counters, and illegal immigrants get to send their kids to public
    schools...cause they have all the money....sheesh!

    >>            If I don't like your political beliefs, would you say
    >>that I'm morally justified in blocking your driveway on Election
    >>Day, in order to stop you from casting a "politically incorrect"
    >>vote?

    > If my vote would cause you, or society, or this planet great harm,
    >and you had not been able to persuade me any other way, I hope
    >your convictions would be deep enough for you to block my driveway -
    >we need more people like you!

    Several points here.

    First, it sure sounds like you and your fellow Abalones have a really
    powerful commitment to democracy...if I'm convinced that you support
    dangerous ideas or causes I'm entitled to try and stop you from
    doing so, apparently by whatever means it takes so long as I utilise
    the minimum necessary force.

    That's just wonderful as a justification for anything, since it can
    be extended infinitely.  Why'd you shoot the President, Lee Oswald?
    Well, he advocated opposing the Soviet Union and that's such a harmful
    attitude he had to be stopped.  I tried blocking the White House driveway
    but the Secret Service took me away...I ran against him for president,
    and everyone really wanted to vote for me, but

    >Many times more money was spent on the usual dirty political campaigning

    by the Democrats and the militarist contractors so he won...

    Also, I question your absolute certainty that nuclear power "would
    cause...this planet great harm," especially since (in a private letter
    to me) you stated that you consider the facts of "nuclear physics and
    energy" to be IRRELEVANT to the issue of the dangers of nuclear power.
    I have found that this kind of certainty bred by ignorance  is true
    poison to the mind, the soul, and the body politic.  It is this kind
    of thinking that historically has and always will have the potential
    to "cause you,...this society, or this planet great harm."

    I also wonder about how you figure keeping workers off their jobs for,
    by your own estimate, ten minutes (and even this delay, according to you,
    is more credited to the plant security folks than you Abalones) consti-
    tutes "saving the planet."  I'm so tired of the arrogance that compels
    people to attribute messianic qualities to their own emotional and
    ignorant obsessions!   Between you and Ronald "Evil Empire" Reagan
    there's damn little to choose...oh, you have different windmills, but
    the one tilts just as blindly as the other.

    I'm not impugning your sincerity or anything like that...I just think
    that you're a little short in the intellectual maturity department.

    Oh yes...If you want to tell me to go f*ck off too, please feel free.
    But lay down in front of my driveway and I'll run your face over...

    Cheers.

							--- das