Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site azure.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!azure!johnr From: johnr@azure.UUCP (John Rutis) Newsgroups: net.religion Subject: Message-ID: <2584@azure.UUCP> Date: Wed, 29-Feb-84 15:39:35 EST Article-I.D.: azure.2584 Posted: Wed Feb 29 15:39:35 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Mar-84 10:23:55 EST Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR Lines: 49 Perhaps I'm foolish to jump into the fray, but there are so many strange ideas floating around in the discussion on omnipotence, that I just CHOOSE (of my own free will) to jump in. I'm way behind on reading net.religion; perhaps the following has already been said, but here goes. Those who attribute God with ABSOLUTE omnipotence and omniscience are producing a paradox. Absolute omniscience precludes choice, an absolute requirement of omnipotence. God has free moral agency. It follows, as night follows day, that He CANNOT see His own future, else He would be an automaton, not able to make any choices. God has created other beings with free moral agency. It follows, as night follows day, that He CANNOT see their futures, else they would be automata, not able to make any choices. (That is not to say that He cannot control their future. He can still do that by influencing circumstances and attitudes if He wishes.) Even an omnipotent and omniscient God cannot do or perceive some things! He cannot do two self-contradictory things at the same time. Can God create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it? Yes AND no, depending on His choice. God CHOOSES to limit himself in some ways. The Bible tells us that God cannot lie (not because He is incapable, but because He WILLS not to). God has promised, upon repentance and asking for His forgiveness, to forget our sins. God has a perfect memory AND a perfect forgetory. He has chosen to perceive the past in a limited way by choosing to forget part of it. God even changes His mind, depending on mans actions: "And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart." Gen 6:6 "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Ex 32:14 God CAN do anything He chooses, but each choice eliminates other alternatives! I think we have to redefine omnipotence and omniscience (words that are not found in the Bible anyway) or not attribute something we don't and cannot understand to God. John Rutis