Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site randvax.ARPA Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!sdcrdcf!randvax!david From: david@randvax.ARPA (David Shlapak) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: re: re: grass roots politics, antinukes Message-ID: <1743@randvax.ARPA> Date: Wed, 7-Mar-84 18:53:18 EST Article-I.D.: randvax.1743 Posted: Wed Mar 7 18:53:18 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 10-Mar-84 11:01:01 EST References: <408@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA>, <202@menlo70.UUCP> Organization: Rand Corp., Santa Monica Lines: 82 First of all, Rex, I think I have to take back most of the nice things I've said and thought about you... I think there's a very fine semantic distinction between "violence" and "non-violence" that you're hiding behind...I'm sure neither you nor any other Abalone bopped any construction worker with a brick; however, by physically interposing yourself between them and their jobs you forced them to make a choice between removing you, and hence themselves resorting to violence, or standing around waiting for you to leave. This is a positive incitement to violence, violenece for which you and your cohorts would have to bear full responsibility...I would call that "semi-violent." > We have been struggling at the polls, writing to legislators, > debating in courtrooms, etc., for years, and continue to do so. > However, if you haven't learned the American Golden Rule yet: > > ******************************************* > * Them that has the gold makes the rules. * > ******************************************* Sure Rex...that's why women got the vote, blacks got to sit at lunch counters, and illegal immigrants get to send their kids to public schools...cause they have all the money....sheesh! >> If I don't like your political beliefs, would you say >>that I'm morally justified in blocking your driveway on Election >>Day, in order to stop you from casting a "politically incorrect" >>vote? > If my vote would cause you, or society, or this planet great harm, >and you had not been able to persuade me any other way, I hope >your convictions would be deep enough for you to block my driveway - >we need more people like you! Several points here. First, it sure sounds like you and your fellow Abalones have a really powerful commitment to democracy...if I'm convinced that you support dangerous ideas or causes I'm entitled to try and stop you from doing so, apparently by whatever means it takes so long as I utilise the minimum necessary force. That's just wonderful as a justification for anything, since it can be extended infinitely. Why'd you shoot the President, Lee Oswald? Well, he advocated opposing the Soviet Union and that's such a harmful attitude he had to be stopped. I tried blocking the White House driveway but the Secret Service took me away...I ran against him for president, and everyone really wanted to vote for me, but >Many times more money was spent on the usual dirty political campaigning by the Democrats and the militarist contractors so he won... Also, I question your absolute certainty that nuclear power "would cause...this planet great harm," especially since (in a private letter to me) you stated that you consider the facts of "nuclear physics and energy" to be IRRELEVANT to the issue of the dangers of nuclear power. I have found that this kind of certainty bred by ignorance is true poison to the mind, the soul, and the body politic. It is this kind of thinking that historically has and always will have the potential to "cause you,...this society, or this planet great harm." I also wonder about how you figure keeping workers off their jobs for, by your own estimate, ten minutes (and even this delay, according to you, is more credited to the plant security folks than you Abalones) consti- tutes "saving the planet." I'm so tired of the arrogance that compels people to attribute messianic qualities to their own emotional and ignorant obsessions! Between you and Ronald "Evil Empire" Reagan there's damn little to choose...oh, you have different windmills, but the one tilts just as blindly as the other. I'm not impugning your sincerity or anything like that...I just think that you're a little short in the intellectual maturity department. Oh yes...If you want to tell me to go f*ck off too, please feel free. But lay down in front of my driveway and I'll run your face over... Cheers. --- das