Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hou5g.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!vax135!ariel!hou5f!hou5g!jrt
From: jrt@hou5g.UUCP (Jaime Tormos)
Newsgroups: net.women
Subject: Re: An old topic: abortion - (nf)
Message-ID: <362@hou5g.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 6-Mar-84 10:58:54 EST
Article-I.D.: hou5g.362
Posted: Tue Mar  6 10:58:54 1984
Date-Received: Wed, 7-Mar-84 08:00:19 EST
References: <2121@hplabsb.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Holmdel, NJ
Lines: 61

Patricia,
  Please do not take me out of context, and PLEASE don't put words in
my mouth.  My article was a statement against women using abortion as
a means of birth control.  I advocate using nicer means earlier...before
the woman becomes pregnant.

  (1) What planet...women who say "no" never are raped ? 

You obviously don't follow the net very often, my position on that subject
was a long drawn out battle with many, including the infamous scott preece.  I
think what you are trying to say is that "rape is a valid reason for abortion"
and I agree that rape and the trauma that follows is a factor that has to be
considered by the victim.  However, I think the Catholic church's position
on this is quite appropriate.  To the best of my memory, and paraphrasing
slightly,... If in your home, an attacker forcibly enters against your will,
then you have every right in the world to have that attacker removed by the
police.  If however, you do nothing, and allow this intruder to remain, and
some time later on this intruder causes mischief and misfortune, then because
of your "implied consent" at allowing the intruder to remain, you have given
up a number of your rights and have limited the recourses you have available
to you.  Likewise, If a woman is raped, then she has every right as soon as
possible, to go to the hospital and have the 'uninvited intruders' removed
from her body.  One of the key words is 'as soon as possible'.  If the victim
does nothing, thinking that "no, I won't become pregnant", and then becomes
pregnant (read your health manuals, this process is not instantaneous), then
she has therefore given up some of her 'rights' to that new child.  
  NOTE: I do not want to argue technicalities... or 'what if's, 'how about's,
or 'have you considered's.   Rape and its consequences and aftermaths is
not a cleary defined issue.  The idea is to follow the spirit of what I have
said, not the letter.

  (2) Why is it not that if a man ...his responsibility...

Again, you put words in my mouth that not only I didn't state, but I personnaly
disagree with.  In other words I agree with you 1000%.  It is very much as much
the man's responsibility, as the woman's.  They are partners in an act that has
a potential for clearly defined consequences.  They must both be 'adult' enough
to take on not only the 'rights', but the responsibilities.  However, I wish
to carry it a little farther.  Why is it that even though a child is created
from a union of two people, some people feel that only the woman has
the "right" to decide that their child should be killed.  Why is it that in a
lot of states, the father does not even have to be informed that an abortion
is requested/carried out, etc.  If only one needs to decide, why not carry it
a little farther, and allow the father a choice in the decision as to whether
a child shall live or not.

  (3) When a woman says "no"...and some little sperm beats the odds...then
abortion is just saying "no" again by flushing the baby out of her body.

Hmmm, a "grey area", a potential good point.  The flaw lies however in the
acceptance of the "odds".  If you do not want a child, then you KNOW what
works.  If you decide to "take your chances" on a less effective means of
birth control, then you must also be responsible enough to accept the
consequences and take on the reponsibilities associated with them.  If you
do not "want" the child, give it up for adoption.  If you cannot "afford" it,
then seek out Birthright or any number of similar groups that will assist,
support and help in any way they can.


			with Love, (** FRODO **) alias hou5g!jrt