Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!decvax!decwrl!daemon From: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Latin and culture Message-ID: <5987@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Fri, 2-Mar-84 05:44:44 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.5987 Posted: Fri Mar 2 05:44:44 1984 Date-Received: Sat, 3-Mar-84 23:43:08 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.UUCP Organization: DEC Western Research Lab, Los Altos, CA Lines: 64 From: akov68::boyajian [This message was originally posted to both net.flame, where "js"'s message, quoted below, appeared, and net.lang, where my message that "js" was commenting on originally appeared. Unfortunately, it seems that it ended up only in net.n- lang, so I'm reposting it to net.flame.] ******************************************************************************** It is sad to have to read all these glorifications of ignorance ("I don't speak any languages other than English, and I am proud of being an uncultured slob"). As a specific comment, it was said that the origin of "decimate" was "to take the tenth part" while it is used in the sense of "wipe out", and therefore, culture is bad, since you would use the word wrongly. The fact is, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. In this specific case, a little more knowledge would elicit the fact that a not uncommon, and very severe form of punishment for rebellious legions was to decimate them - kill every tenth soldier. This "only" took every tenth soldier, but gave the ominous meaning to the word. js ******************************************************************************** Since I was the one that posted the message regarding "decimate" (as part of an overall discussion about learning Latin), it behooves me to respond. Quite frankly, you didn't understand a whit of what I was saying. First of all, I never said "I don't speak any languages other than Eng- lish, and I am proud of being an uncultured slob", or anything even remotely like it. As a matter of fact I took French for 5-1/2 years in grade school, Span- ish for three years in high school and two years in college, German for two years in high school and two in college, and even a smidgin of Latin in junior high. I *love* languages. My contention was, and still is, that the argument for learning Latin as a way to learning new words in English (by knowing the Latin roots) was a specious one. Learning Latin for the fun of it, or to be able to read ancient Roman texts in their original language is certainly commendable. Second of all, I fail to see how it logically follows that because the word decimate is currently used differently from its original meaning that "cul- ture is bad". Sure, I know that *you* don't believe that, but I don't see how you managed to glean that piece of specious wisdom from what I said. Again, what I was trying to illustrate by that example is that knowing the Latin root for decimate will give you a *false* understanding of its current definition, rather than a clearer one. (By the by, I am well aware of the Roman practice of deci- mating the troops as a punishment. I studied Imperial Roman history in college.) Thirdly, not as a response to your response to my article, but as a flame of my own, I am rather sick and tired of people who insist on shoving "culture" down other people's throats! (NB that I am saying this as a "cultured" person, not an ignoramous [otherwise, how could I be using "nota bene"? 8-)].) Personally, I find it perfectly acceptable for someone to not want to learn Latin or Greek (besides, why are just Latin and Greek held in high esteem as cultured languages, why not Aramaic or Chinse?). Through the marvels of trans- lation, one can easily read the works of Romans (eg. Cicero) or Greeks (eg. Herodotus) without having to resort to learning Latin and Greek. 1 To be sure, there are uses aplenty for Latin and Greek , but I hardly find them to be a necessity for a "cultured" person. To insist that they are is nothing but elitist snobbery. --- jayembee (Jerry Boyajian, DEC Maynard) UUCP: (decvax!decwrl!rhea!akov68!boyajian) ARPA: (decwrl!rhea!akov68!boyajian@Shasta) 1 If nothing else, knowing Latin and Greek will tell you that "octopi" is an improper plural for "octopus" (which isn't even a Greek word, by the way).