Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!laura From: laura@utzoo.UUCP (Laura Creighton) Newsgroups: net.religion,net.philosophy Subject: Re: time Message-ID: <3590@utzoo.UUCP> Date: Sun, 4-Mar-84 05:58:26 EST Article-I.D.: utzoo.3590 Posted: Sun Mar 4 05:58:26 1984 Date-Received: Sun, 4-Mar-84 05:58:26 EST References: <1382@mit-eddie.UUCP>, <6686@cornell.UUCP> Organization: U of Toronto Zoology Lines: 56 Ralph Johston is not quite correct in demonstrating that the law of excluded middle proof for determinism are equivalent to the "omniscience implies determinism" argument. he is quite correct in entitling this article "time", however. the Law of Excluded Middle is a slippery proof. You must ignore things like Shroedinger's cat, for instance, but this is merely a side-issue. The basic issue is "what is Truth?" (so howzzat for a basic metaphysical question?). the question is, is it time dependent. The existence of a creator-God pretty well defines Truth to be a) absolute and b) not-changing with time. Thus, The Law of Excluded middle is a useful proof when talking about omniscient creator-Gods. However, if you do not have a creator-God to worry about (as I never do unless I am arguing in net.religion!) then the definition of Truth becomes crucial. I believe that truth is very time dependent. Truth is *what is now*. Truth is also *what was before*. Truth has nothing to do with future events. When the future event that is predicted passes through the precise moment of time known as "the present" then, and only then can the truth of the predicition be known. Okay? Here is what this means -- 2000 years ago, it was not a true statement to say "Reagan is president of the United States in 1983." In 1983 it is a true statement. In 1982 it is a prediciton which can be considered to be likely. 2000 years ago, it is meaningless noise, and thus not-true. 2000 years ago, there was no "United States" and there definitely was no Reagan. There was no calendar dating from the time of Christ. There was no modern English. There were no things called presidents. Even if you translated the sentence into words that would have meaning in the countries of that time you still would have something that could nt be said to be 'true' . Of course, it could not be said to be 'false' either -- in that its contradiction "Reagan is not president of the United States in 1983." is not true. What have I done? Opened up the "middle". Good bye, "law of excluded middle", for I beleive tha you only refer to the truth of something which is very time dependent. This claim, though, you not was not made of God. I have not claimed that determinism follows from God knowing my past -- just His knowing of the future, which in fact says that "truth" (defined as what God knows) is eternal and not time dependent. This one, of course, I do not buy. -- Laura Creighton (NOTE NEW ADDRESS) utzoo!laura