Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site fortune.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!ihnp4!fortune!burton From: burton@fortune.UUCP Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Re: Re: Kosher Meals -- meat and fish to - (nf) Message-ID: <2630@fortune.UUCP> Date: Mon, 27-Feb-84 15:18:28 EST Article-I.D.: fortune.2630 Posted: Mon Feb 27 15:18:28 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 28-Feb-84 12:51:44 EST Sender: notes@fortune.UUCP Organization: Fortune Systems, Redwood City, CA Lines: 57 #R:ihuxq:-70800:fortune:39800001:000:2646 fortune!burton Feb 27 10:18:00 1984 With regard to discussing the Holocaust with your children: That has got to be one of the toughest questions ... My children are 4 1/2 and one, and the older, a girl, is doing the typical "I'm afraid to die" that all children her age experience. To add the Holocaust experience, even second=hand, is a crusher. I should add that my parents are both Holocause survivors. [No, I don't want a subgroup for this, although these experiences could take many pages.] I grew up fearful and dispite my efforts, I occasionally have this fear that most other people don't have (except other Jews, including my wife) that if I'm comfortable today, "they" will come tomorrow and take it all away. Actually not a bad view for someone in the small computer business. I can't blame my parents for any of this. They had to survive, and the few pictures that survived (in the US, sent before the war) tell a terrible story by the absence of grandparents, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc. Of my parents' extended families, no one except them, on either side, survived throughout the entire war in Europe. That's an incredible legacy, and today, I find it showing in some odd ways. For example, and I don't want to discuss the issue per se, I'm not very military, but if the Iranians and the Iraqis exterminated each other, or the Phalange shoots up refugee camps, I'm glad, because those people are myy people's enemies. Another reaction. Touring Europe in 1966, when I was 19, I visited Berlin, the home of two great-uncles who left in 1933. When I saw some old people on the subway wearing medals, I reasoned that they weren't in Korea, and they weren't old enough for WW I, at which point I started shoving these old people on the subway in my best New York-subway style. Obviously, this is for me a very emotional topic, and I can't examine myy own feelings with detachment, and affects my feelings and identity as a Jew. The Holocaust was such a singular event for Jews that if a converted Jew wants to discuss it with his/her children, it is probably necessary to examine your own feelings about conversion. One final thing. My father, who is a survivor of the Warsaw ghetto, has told me that the only revenge on Hitler is to have children and teach them what happened, so that six million didn't die unremembered. Sorry to take up so much of the reader's time, but this is probably as important as some of the finer nuances of kashrut. Philip Burton 101 Twin Dolphin Drive Fortune Systems Redwood City, CA 94065 (415) 595-8444 x 526 - - - {allegra decvax!decwrl!amd70 cbosgd harpo hpda ihnp4 sri-unix}!fortune!burton