Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 (Tek) 9/26/83; site azure.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!vax135!cornell!uw-beaver!tektronix!azure!johnr
From: johnr@azure.UUCP (John Rutis)
Newsgroups: net.religion
Subject: 
Message-ID: <2584@azure.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-Feb-84 15:39:35 EST
Article-I.D.: azure.2584
Posted: Wed Feb 29 15:39:35 1984
Date-Received: Sat, 3-Mar-84 10:23:55 EST
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 49


Perhaps I'm foolish to jump into the fray, but there are so many
strange ideas floating around in the discussion on omnipotence,
that I just CHOOSE (of my own free will) to jump in.  I'm way
behind on reading net.religion; perhaps the following has already
been said, but here goes.

Those who attribute God with ABSOLUTE omnipotence and omniscience
are producing a paradox.  Absolute omniscience precludes choice,
an absolute requirement of omnipotence.

God has free moral agency.  It follows, as night follows day, that
He CANNOT see His own future, else He would be an automaton, not
able to make any choices.

God has created other beings with free moral agency.  It follows,
as night follows day, that He CANNOT see their futures, else they
would be automata, not able to make any choices.  (That is not to
say that He cannot control their future.  He can still do that by
influencing circumstances and attitudes if He wishes.)

Even an omnipotent and omniscient God cannot do or perceive some
things!  He cannot do two self-contradictory things at the same
time.  Can God create a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it?
Yes AND no, depending on His choice.

God CHOOSES to limit himself in some ways.  The Bible tells us
that God cannot lie (not because He is incapable, but because He
WILLS not to).  God has promised, upon repentance and asking for
His forgiveness, to forget our sins.  God has a perfect memory AND
a perfect forgetory.  He has chosen to perceive the past in a
limited way by choosing to forget part of it.

God even changes His mind, depending on mans actions:

"And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and
it grieved him at his heart." Gen 6:6

"And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto
his people." Ex 32:14  

God CAN do anything He chooses, but each choice eliminates other
alternatives!

I think we have to redefine omnipotence and omniscience (words
that are not found in the Bible anyway) or not attribute something
we don't and cannot understand to God.

John Rutis