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From: kechkayl@ecn-ee.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.flame
Subject: Re: response to anti-religious flame - (nf)
Message-ID: <1695@pur-ee.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 17-Mar-84 08:13:35 EST
Article-I.D.: pur-ee.1695
Posted: Sat Mar 17 08:13:35 1984
Date-Received: Sun, 18-Mar-84 08:15:32 EST
Sender: notes@pur-ee.UUCP
Organization: Electrical Engineering Department , Purdue University
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#R:pucc-h:-58300:ecn-ee:15500004:000:4705
ecn-ee!kechkayl    Mar 17 06:08:00 1984

>>> = Sargent
>>  = Ruschak
>   = Sargent (this is getting silly!)

NOTE ! I have edited coments to save space. In doing so, I have attempted
       to preserve meaning. If you don't like it, I expect that I'll hear
       about it (sigh).

>>> 1.  Humans are more than just logic.  Note, however, that belief in God is
>>>     not irrational. Christ appeals to the whole person, not only the mind.

>> Translation: "Christ appeals to the irrational part of the human psyche."
>> Doesn't sound so good that way, does it? Semantics is everything.

>Of course it doesn't sound so good that way, because it isn't true that way.
>It's so obvious that you've twisted my words that I thought you'd be ashamed
>to write it. Jesus Himself, said that the first great commandment was 
>"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul,
>and with all your MIND, and with all your strength."  Besides, Christ has
>CURED me of a lot of irrationality, hence my terming Him the "ultimate
>psychotherapist".
 
I was attempting, in my own no doubt indecipherable fashion, to be sarcastic.
Sorry, if it got you upset. Anyway, I was attempting to point out that most
religions do not have a logical basis (Logical in the sense that they fit
demonstrable physical facts). Most religion rely on the non-logical basis
of faith.

>>> 2.  The reason I continue to believe in God is that there is evidence
>>>     that He does exist.  He has changed me vastly.  In the years I have
>>>     been a Christian, I have been enabled (via prayer, the ultimate
>>>     psychotherapy, and via the ministry of other people) to become much
>>>     more fully human than I was, say, 10 years ago.
 
>> Do you believe in Richard Simmons?? I know many people who will say that 
>> they are much more fully human because they have been watching him for
>> years.  They tend to think of him as the ultimate psychotherapy, too.
 
>Just because God helps people doesn't mean other people can't help people.
>I don't doubt that some people's lives have indeed been improved by watching
>Richard Simmons.  But the first sentence of this paragraph can be turned
>around:  Just because people help people doesn't mean that God doesn't.
>I have been able to shed many old fears, pains, resentments, etc. as a result
>of unhibitedly opening them up to God in private prayer.  Those who
>think of Richard Simmons as the ultimate psychotherapy just don't know how
>therapeutic it is to be known intimately, known better than they know
>themselves, known including all the hidden dark and ugly spots--and still
>loved!  That is what Christ offers.

I was trying to say that, as far as I was concerned, it didn't matter what 
you believed in. I think that if you BELIEVE in the power of Richard Simmons
to help you, and prayed to him, etc., you could derive the same benefits.

>>>                                                 ...how do YOU know that
>>> Richard Simmons isn't the Almighty??? How do you know?

>Has he ever made the slightest indication of being divine?  God in human form
>just could not be hidden; that would be like trying to hide Sears Tower in
>the Lafayette skyline.  God in human form would do things proving him to be
>much more than human.

Pardon me, but didn't Jesus lead a fairly normal life (aside from a few
incidents) for most of his life ??? Or was he the only child aroud with 
a halo???

---

>A general comment & question to all those who attack Christianity:

>I broadcast my faith because it has helped me and people I know, so I believe
>it can help others.  Why do you attack Christianity?  What good do you expect
>to gain, or to help others gain, by attacking something which has done good
>for many people?  Why do you bother attacking something which has been
>attacked many times, which received some of its worst attacks when it was
>still fledgling, and survived them all?  Surely you see how futile that is.
>What profit does it give you (enjoyment, perhaps?) to wound Christians?

Whenever I see someone erring, in my perception, I will try to tell them
about it, if they will listen. If they tell me to go to hell, fine. If not,
maybe they will not make that error anymore. Yes, I admit that this is
EXTREMELY subjective, but I can't help having opinions. I think error is
wrong. So, if I point out the error of someone's  ways (Yes, I know this
sounds unbearably pompous, sorry) they may amend them. If they choose not to,
thats ok, variety is nice, but if they will, thats even better.

	Wow, this sounds like a mature and rational discussion! What
	is this doing in net.flame ??????????????????????????????

				Thomas Ruschak
				ecn-ee!kechkayl
				"Aiee! A toy robot!"