Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site decwrl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!decvax!decwrl!rhea!vaxuum!dyer From: dyer@vaxuum.DEC (Where's the falafel?) Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Dumping Public Education - A Bad Idea Message-ID: <6308@decwrl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 19-Mar-84 11:39:09 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.6308 Posted: Mon Mar 19 11:39:09 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 20-Mar-84 01:28:13 EST Organization: DEC Engineering Network Lines: 69 > = James Jones > Re the alleged deleterious effects of the supposed segregation that > would arise from the death of the public schools: so what? Children > are segregated by the neighborhoods they live in;... "So what?" What you seem to be saying is that children who live in ghettos should also go to ghetto schools, pick up a ghetto education and probably grow up to live their lives in the ghetto. It's bad enough growing up poor. Take away public education and you take away most opportunity to be anything *but* poor. I was born poor; I attended public schools and I got smart. Smart enough to win an academic scholarship into a private school. If I had to go to a pri- vate school that my mother could then afford, I'd probably be working in the steel mills back in Pittsburgh (if I was lucky enough to be wor- king) instead of here at DEC. > ...do the opponents of > giving people a true choice of schools also advocate requiring people > to live in particular neighborhoods?... Your scheme to abolish public schools seems to be the best way I know of eliminating a choice of schools (as well as many other opportu- nities). Thus, you qualify as an "opponent of giving people a true choice of schools" (the poor are people too). So why don't you answer your own facetious question? My answer is this: No, people should not be required to live in particular neighborhoods. Denying the poor a decent education takes away most of their chances to leave the place they're at, effectively requiring them to live in a particular neighborhood (the poor are people too). I anticipate replies in a Social Darwinist vein, so let's look at them. One would be "it's their own fault that the poor are poor". I per- sonally feel that that's ridiculous; but assuming that it's true, is it just to withhold opportunities from the child just because the parents are poor? Ghetto children have enough problems: hunger, breathing pol- luted air (urban air harms children the most), violence (often from the family), poor health; why add poor education to the list? Then there's the "what's in it for me?" reply. Rather than ex- pound on morals and kindness and so forth (valid, but not the things that immediately reach the "what's in it for me?" set), let's look at the bene- fits that result from allowing the poor to be educated: (1) The poor can bring new experiences and approaches to the mar- ketplace of ideas. This marketplace is overloaded with stagnant, outdated wares; there's a glut of dogmatic goods; lot of ideas for sale there to help the poor, most of which were devised by well-to-do Democrats. (2) The poor have a different social context; that is, they have different mannerisms, inhibitions, etc. Thus, their creativity meets dif- ferent barriers than does the creativity of the well-to-do. (3) An educated poor is less likely to fall victim to totalitarian movements. For democracy to work, we must educate as many citizens as pos- sible! (4) An educated poor is less likely to fall victim to dishonesty from either the public or the private sector. Keeping each of these as honest as possible is necessary if we want our system to work. (5) If you take away the poor's only legal opportunity for advan- cing themselves, don't expect them to remain "law-abiding citizens." One of the human needs is growth (a.k.a. self-actualization); any attempt to contain it will fail. (6) People who used to be poor but now have moved up to a point where they can access the USENET can come along and straighten your head out when you start flaming nonsense about public and private schools. This is known as recursion. <_Jym_> | Jym Dyer | Nashua, New Hampshire | ...decvax!decwrl!rhea!vaxuum!dyer | Mon 19-Mar-1984 11:46 Zen (not EST!) Time