Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 beta 3/9/83; site menlo70.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!floyd!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!menlo70!sanders From: sanders@menlo70.UUCP (Rex Sanders) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: re: re: grass roots politics, antinukes Message-ID: <202@menlo70.UUCP> Date: Sun, 11-Mar-84 02:19:39 EST Article-I.D.: menlo70.202 Posted: Sun Mar 11 02:19:39 1984 Date-Received: Tue, 6-Mar-84 02:38:43 EST References: <408@ucbtopaz.CC.Berkeley.ARPA> Organization: USGS, Menlo Park CA Lines: 87 In reply to Sam Hall (ucbvax!ucbtopaz!bitmap): >Well, force and violence have their attractions, apparently. Since >reason and logic can't seem to change peoples' minds, Rex & Co. are >going to "stop the workers from getting to their jobs". In this >case, it may even be questionable that reason or logic were ever >attempted. Rex, are you thus disavowing any allegiance to the >democratic process, or to the use of reason to persuade, as opposed >to force? Sorry it wasn't clear in my messages - the Abalone Alliance and all the groups I work with are totally committed to non-violent, direct action, in the traditions of Gandhi and King. We have an explicit non-violence code we require (as much as any non-hierarchical, non-violent, open group can 'require') everyone who participates in these actions to adhere to. We have been struggling at the polls, writing to legislators, debating in courtrooms, etc., for years, and continue to do so. However, if you haven't learned the American Golden Rule yet: ******************************************* * Them that has the gold makes the rules. * ******************************************* > If I don't like your political beliefs, would you say >that I'm morally justified in blocking your driveway on Election >Day, in order to stop you from casting a "politically incorrect" >vote? If my vote would cause you, or society, or this planet great harm, and you had not been able to persuade me any other way, I hope your convictions would be deep enough for you to block my driveway - we need more people like you! > Please note that, as opposed to, say, Henry Thoreau, >you are advocating using force against other people. Force or violence - please distinguish, and define force if different. We delayed a few hundred workers maybe 10 minutes in my particular situation - and most of that delay was caused by the security people bumbling around for a while. Can you suggest alternative, non-violent means of stopping the plant if all the "legal" means have been exhausted? > If I recall >correctly, there was an initiative in California a few years ago >pertaining to nuclear power. The "anti-nuclear" position lost >handily. You can't even claim to be "vigilantes", where the >majority is being terrorized by a few. You seem to be saying that >if you can't get the results that you want by using the ballot box, >it's O.K. to use brute force. The anti-nuke initiative lost for 2 reasons: (1) The Legislature passed, just a month or so before the election, a set of bills implementing some of what the initiative asked for, mainly to keep the more stringent requirements of the initiative out. (2) Many times more money was spent on the usual dirty political campaigning by the utilities, reactor manufacturers, and even the US Government (the last documented in several newspaper articles), than was spent by the supporters of the initiative. See "Golden Rule" above. I would bet that a poll taken now would show majority opposition to nuclear power statewide; I know such a pool shows a majority opposed to Diablo Canyon in San Luis Obispo county, the site of the plant. > Your tone, however, seems to indicate that >you're getting some sort-of pleasure out of anticipating being >arrested/put in jail: a pre-show enjoyment out of anticipation of >being a "martyr"? a feeling that you'll have the esteem of your >co-conspirators? something you'll be able to brag about (without >really bragging, of course) during late nite rap sessions? FYI, I was scared sh*tless of going to jail - it had taken me 2 1/2 years to work up the nerve. I got no pleasure; I don't need or want to be a martyr; I haven't been bragging; and since most of my friends have already been to jail (some in much worse conditions), they will not be interested in my stories. Isn't saving the planet a good enough reason for you? What is? >Your thoughts/actions are to morality as Agent Orange is to trees. F*ck you. (non-violently, of course :-). >Sam Hall >ucbvax!ucbtopaz!bitmap -- Rex Sanders decvax!ucbvax!menlo70!sanders