Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 exptools 1/6/84; site ihuxl.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxl!houxm!ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert From: seifert@ihuxl.UUCP (D.A. Seifert) Newsgroups: net.audio Subject: Re: AR speaker info wanted Message-ID: <990@ihuxl.UUCP> Date: Tue, 20-Mar-84 09:38:00 EST Article-I.D.: ihuxl.990 Posted: Tue Mar 20 09:38:00 1984 Date-Received: Wed, 21-Mar-84 02:06:01 EST References: <1840@tektronix.UUCP> <352@dual.UUCP> <240@opus.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Naperville, IL Lines: 84 In defense of the AR-11 loudspeaker: I am quite familiar with these, I've owned a pair for several years. I have only heard one speaker that sounds clearly superior, that is the Snell type A. (The AR-9 is a second possibility, but I haven't listened to these enough to judge them fairly) The Klipsch Cornwalls and Klipschorns sound approximately similar in quality. (The Heresy deserve to be hooked up to a $5 AM radio.) Close seconds include the ADS 810s, the Dalquests, and Magnaplaners. No speaker is perfect. The AR-11 does not have the *very* low bass needed for organ pedal notes, it's 3dB point is approx 35Hz. This is quite adequate for most other music, the limitation is usually the source, not the speaker. Between 35Hz to over 20Khz, the response is within +/- 5 dB. Not perfect by any means, but very good. Remember this is a speaker, not an amplifier. (BTW, I have a plot of the response measured at a speaker clinic by another speaker manufacturer, which used a short burst method to eliminate standing waves or other room effects. I'm not just going by AR's specs or a magazine report.) They are also of "reasonable" size, weight, and cost, as opposed to most other speakers I can stand to listen to. About the treble response. Some people like the sound of AR's tweeters, some don't. I'm quite happy with it, a couple of my audiophile friends have minor quibles with it. (The ones with the ADS 810s and Dalquests) Apparently there is some imperfection in the high frequency response of ARs that bother some people, but not others. Other speakers have similar slight problems that *do* bother me (but don't bother others). I picked the speaker that had the problem *I* couldn't hear. The ADSs have a slight problem in the bass. (possibly room related) The Dalquests *require* a subwoofer, since they cut off at 60 Hz. And so on. The idea is to find a speaker that sounds good to *you*, even if some other speaker measures better on the average. If it has some querk that grates on your ears you're going to hate it, no matter *how* many golden ears praise it, or how wonderful it's measures specs are. About power handling. I've never blown a driver in them. The rating given by AR is 150 watts clipping 10% of the time, on normal "music" (not sine waves). I have observed clipping at over 110 watts (as measured on a 'scope) with no problems. My current amp is rated at 200 watts into 4 Ohms and so far no problems. (Thou I'm not stupid enough to drive it into clipping at these power levels, also I don't listen to hard rock (read: loud) much these days) The amp (Hafler) has speaker fuses (2 Amp). Once a source created a high level noise and blew one of the speaker fuses, with no problems. In the owners manual, AR gives a rather complete spec for power rating. The main problem is heat buildup, so you can actually pump, say 1000 Watts into one for a very short time, say 2 seconds, with no damage. (Check the manual for exact figures) In the setup described in previous articles, the amp is quoted as being 1000 Watts, and 24 speakers were used. Assuming power was equally distributed to all speakers, this gives 41.6 Watts per speaker, which *should* have been quite safe, given "normal music" and less than 10% clipping. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the AR3a a member of the previous (1st) generation, with *much less* high freq output? (They hadn't invented the whiz-bang dome tweeter with ferro-fluid yet) Maybe you like a speaker with less treble? (Try playing with the switches on the back of the speaker, or use eq) In fact I seem to remember reading about how the hot setup used to be using ARs for bass, and someone's electrostatic tweeter for treble. I think they might have even made a woofer-only system just for this sort of application! Warning, before anyone runs out to audition AR's latest, don't judge the 2nd generation ARs by the 3rd generation garbage they're making now. I don't know what they did to screw them up, but the current ones sound *bad*, dispite things that should be improvements like lining up the drivers for better imaging. Haven't listened to them enough to figure out *what's* wrong, thou. The opinions expressed above are mine alone. -- _____ /_____\ I taught Walter Mitty everything he knows! /_______\ Snoopy |___| ____|___|_____ ihnp4!ihuxl!seifert