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From: trc@houti.UUCP (T.CRAVER)
Newsgroups: net.philosophy
Subject: Christian Altruism
Message-ID: <354@houti.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 22-Jul-83 09:17:41 EDT
Article-I.D.: houti.354
Posted: Fri Jul 22 09:17:41 1983
Date-Received: Sun, 24-Jul-83 02:05:30 EDT
Lines: 64

Response to Paul Dubuc on Christianity and altruism:

(Lets keep this in net.philosophy for now, though it may evolve into
something that belongs in net.religion.  Any other discussion of
altruism can change over to net.philosophy too.)

Your major claim seems to be that Christianity "is not purely altruistic",
but allows some concern for oneself as well.

I agree that Christians are not consistent on some things - I've met a great
variety of them, and they do vary from materialistic to mystical - but
that has little to do with selfish vs altruistic.  Communists are typically
considered materialistic, but they are altruistic.  I would claim that 
Christians are "mystical altruists".  They do not practice altruism 
consistently, but that says nothing about what the Christian religion 
teaches.  It only gives evidence that, even with the sincerest intentions
to follow those teachings, altruism is impossible for humans to practice fully.

I know of no strong Biblical evidence supporting the idea that it is a sin
not to give at least a minimum of concern for oneself.  I do know of plenty
of evidence supporting the idea that one should sacrifice one's own good 
for others.  Examples are "turn the other cheek", "carry the (enemy) soldier's 
pack an extra mile",  "sell all that you possess and give it to the poor", 
"love your enemies", etc.  

I would agree that there are in additional actions that are considered sins 
against God - cursing, worshiping false idols, etc; and that these have 
little to do with altruism.  On that basis, Christianity is not "purely 
altruistic".  However, *I* would consider such actions as generally *amoral* - 
you would not think it a sin to insult some other religion's god, would you?  
Thus, I still claim that in the realm of moral choices in reality,  altruism 
is dominant in Christianity.  

The thing that appears closest to concern with self is the consideration of 
suicide as a sin, by Catholics.  However, that seems to be based upon the 
proscription on killing in general of the 10 commandments. I seriously doubt 
this really refers to suicide, any more than it refers to slaughtering animals 
or plants.  Secondly, calling suicide a sin can be be justified, in a twisted
sort of way, within altruism.  After all, suicide is often called "the easy
way out" - and that is something that altruism doesnt allow its victims.
They must always do that which is hardest for them to do, to be moral, and 
so they must stay alive as a duty to others.  (One sometimes hears suicides 
referred to *contemptuously* as "selfish".)

As for pure selfishness not working either, I disagree.  First, you provide
no basis for your assertion other than "Can you imagine everyone in a society
being a "Howard Roark"?"  No, I cant fully imagine it - but what I can imagine
of it is just fine.  For those of you who havent read the book, Howard Roark 
was almost completely selfish.  (However, "Atlas Struggled" deals more fully
with altruism.)  Most conflicts in the story arise because Roark doesnt
care about what people think of him, which irritates most people he meets, 
and inspires hatred in some.  You will have to tell me how such conflicts 
would arise if *everyone* rejected the ideas that they *should* care what 
others think of them, and that they *should* act altruistically.

Selfishness (individualism) would be a good basis for society.  Ethically, 
it is the idea that one's life is one's own to live, and to enjoy.  
Politically, it gives rise to the ideas of individual rights and Capitalism.  
Aesthetically, it is expressed in art and literature that portrays human 
ideals, rather than portraying humans as debased animals and reality as a 
inconsistent or incomprehensible mush.

	Tom Craver
	houti!trc