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From: lvc@cbscd5.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Limited Laws for All Time?
Message-ID: <237@cbscd5.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-Jun-83 22:32:23 EDT
Article-I.D.: cbscd5.237
Posted: Wed Jun 29 22:32:23 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 30-Jun-83 23:31:04 EDT
Lines: 33


	The news item posted by Tim Sevener concerning 'limited laws
for all time' contains much misunderstanding over Godel's proof. This 
news item will deal only with this and not discuss such laws or 
any justification for gov't.

	Godel's proof states that under a "certain set of circumstances"
there exists a problem which cannot be proven true using statements of
the same "form" as the problem.

	A few examples will illustrate what I mean. 

	1 ) The problem  x * x + 1 = 0 can be solved only by using complex 
numbers yet it is stated without using complex numbers.

	2 ) The problem  x * x - 2 = 0 can be solved only by introducing
irrational numbers, yet they are not in the problem.

	Ultimately what Tim is saying is that the facts of reality
are insufficient to explain reality. This is simply absurd.

	He states "If such is true for LOGICAL systems how can it
possibly be true for POLITICAL systems or moral systems?" The answer
quite simply is that Godel's theorem does not apply. If the premises
are not met the conclusion does not follow.

	I would suggest that Tim Sevener get his head out of Hofstadter
(a mathematical lightweight) and read "Introduction to Metamathetics"
by S. C. Kleene. It is an excellent text, and quite carefully proves
Godel's proof.

					Larry Cipriani
					cbscd5!lvc