Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site hp-pcd.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!seismo!hao!hplabs!hp-pcd!hp-kirk!mark From: mark@hp-kirk.UUCP Newsgroups: net.flame Subject: Re: re: scott preece on 55mph - (nf) Message-ID: <1246@hp-pcd.UUCP> Date: Thu, 30-Jun-83 03:25:18 EDT Article-I.D.: hp-pcd.1246 Posted: Thu Jun 30 03:25:18 1983 Date-Received: Fri, 1-Jul-83 10:12:31 EDT Sender: netnews@hp-pcd.UUCP Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Corvallis OR Lines: 61 #R:utcsstat:-70700:hp-kirk:7100005:000:3787 hp-kirk!mark Jun 23 08:11:00 1983 Sorry laura but as much as I object to the 55mph speed limit (which is a lot) and as much as I violate it (which is also a lot), I cannot agree that driving at 55mph is just as likely to get you killed as driving at 70mph. This might be true if all you are considering is running into a brick wall with no opportunity to react, but accidents are usually not instantaneous; there is often several seconds of action wherein you can brake, accelerate, turn, pray, cover your face, jump in the back seat, or whatever. In many cases the little bit of extra time provided by a slower speed will be sufficient to avoid an accident. Even if the accident is unavoidable, braking from 55 may get you to a survivable speed at impact whereas braking from 70 may not. And lastly, all accidents are not of the brick wall variety. If you lose control of the car because of a blowout or somebody sideswipes which causes you to go careening off the road maybe plowing through some brush or even rolling the car, it is still quite possible to survive (hope your seatbelt was fastened) and even in many cases to walk away uninjured, but the probabilities go down as the speed goes up. No, I have to believe that for any given driving condition going at speed x is safer that going at x+epsilon and going at x-epsilon is safer yet. This whole thing brings me to my flame regarding the 55mph. (FLAME ON) The state legislatures that inact speed laws do so with little if any regard for what is safe. They are primarily concerned with what can and can't be enforced. Here we are in this group (somewhat inappropriately since little of this discussion can be regarded as true flames) discussing what is safe when what is safe has little to do with any speed limit. A fixed speed limit is not a determinant of what is safe and never will be. What is safe on a warm sunny afternoon is not safe on a foggy, icy, rainy night. What is safe when your sharing the road with 6 other cars in sight will not be safe when the number is sixty. For that matter, considering the braking distances involved, what is safe on a uphill stretch will not be safe going the other way. How do you legislate any of this? The problem of enforceability is even more apparent when you consider that most states (at least those that I am aware of) have provisions to cite you for driving at less than the speed limit if it can be determined that you were driving unsafely (burden of proof on the state) and also provisions to let you off for exceeding the posted limit if you can prove that you were driving safely. But how often do you see either of these provisions actually enacted. Fact is, you probably don't. The courts go along meting out justice solely on the basis of how fast were you going over the posted limit with only rare instances of the word safety ever coming up. (Flame off) Now, I don't like the system and from what I can gather from the preceding diatribe there are lots of others who don't and if you want to flame about it well then this is the place. But, before you go proposing alternatives you might give some thought to what the problem actually is and then ask yourself what will this solution cost to implement and how will it be enforced. Then see if on the spot driving tests, speed limits based on driving ability, or any of the other so-called solutions posted here make sense. I conclude by making the only apology that I consider acceptable for this news group and that is apoligizing for the high discussion content and low flame content of this entry. I like 90, Death Rowe hp-pcd!hp-cvd!mark Corvallis, Oregon