From: utzoo!decvax!yale-com!leichter Newsgroups: net.religion Title: Re: There is no War on net.religion Article-I.D.: yale-com.869 Posted: Fri Feb 11 21:48:30 1983 Received: Sun Feb 13 02:16:42 1983 References: floyd.1181 You ask why Jews are willing to accept all sorts of things beyond the Old Testament as true, but won't accept the New Testament. You suggest this might have something to do with a Jewish idea that Jews are chosen and everyone else is just going the wrong way. There is no simple answer to your question, but I can give you two pieces of information. First, Jews, like Christians, believe that there are hints - some, I think, in the Old Testament, but mainly in unwritten tradition (now long written down in many of the other books) - about how to recognize the true Messiah. Where Jewish and Christian traditions part is in deciding whether the hints indicate Jesus was the Messiah. In the Jewish interpreta- tion, the hints clearly show that Jesus was NOT the Messiah. By the way, there have been other claimants to the role of Jewish Messiah, at least one of whom - in the 13th century? - attracted quite a following. He was eventually renounced and his movement died soon after he did. As to the idea that Jews think only they are "good enough" to be saved: You are letting your own world-view color your understanding. In the "unwritten tradition", the following story is told: God developed the 10 Commandments as a guide to a way of life that would be good for man. Since God wants men to choose the good freely, He did not IMPOSE these laws; rather, he OFFERED them to the nations of the Earth. God did not offer any sort of "reward" for choosing to accept them; obeying them was a good in and of itself. (Notice how alien this is to much of our world-view. What was being offered was an OBLIGATION; the obligation is viewed as a good IN AND OF ITSELF - it is a good thing to accept an obligation to do good things.) Anyway, the nations of the Earth looked at the Commandments and decided they were too hard to follow; they would not accept them. Only the Israelites would accept them - and even they had a great deal of difficulty, as the story of the golden calf makes plain. Hence, Jews are bound by Jewish law as a matter of free choice, not inherent obligation. (You might wonder how today's Jews came to "choose". In Jewish tradition, ALL Jews were present at Sinai, and ALL chose.) Others did not choose to be bound, and are not. That's why Jews don't proseletize and, in fact, discourage conversions. Judaism is viewed as an obligation not to be entered into lightly, but only by free choice after careful consideration. Jewish tradition also does not deny that God loves and provides for non-Jews. There is nothing inherently inconsistent with Jewish tradition in believing that others may have a "right" religeon - so long as the worship the one true God. (I.e. the FORM of that worship is of no interest as such to Jews.) Judaism has always viewed vows and obligations as important and binding. God and the Jewish people exchanged vows, and they remain as valid as they ever were, notwithstanding any dealings God has since had with other peoples. So, Mr. Lee, next time try to understand the other person before making in- temperate remarks - and, yes, many of your remarks I read as intemperate, and what's important is how what you say is understood, not what you "really had in mind". For a Jew to hear a Christian talking with such certainty about the ONLY true way, and distorting the beliefs of others to make them look silly, is a frightening thing. Millions of Jews suffered over the last two millenia under the rule of Christians following "the Prince of Peace" for us to dismiss this as "just words". -- Jerry decvax!yale-comix!leichter