From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!npoiv!rah Newsgroups: net.religion Title: Re: Jeremiah"s prophecy Article-I.D.: npoiv.1929 Posted: Tue Feb 8 22:16:46 1983 Received: Fri Feb 11 06:12:05 1983 References: presby.175 npoiv.1926 presby.177 I think Aron didn't read my submission very carefully, for I explicitly said that; Having said that, I readily admit that there are still a number of people who will pass the stricter definition of "Christian" who committed atrocities of which I am ashamed. end quote. I was not claiming that Christians were perfect, I strongly believe in the doctrine that ALL persons have sinned and thus fall short of perfection, including Christians. I was, however, asserting that because a person is a gentile does not make him automatically a Christian, and that many of the atrocities committed by Europeans, even in the name of "Christianity," were not committed by Christians, that the problem was that the term "Christian" was associated with the state religion as well as with the actual teachings of Christ. I realize that this was / is somewhat tangent to Aron's comments about Jeremiah, but I couldn't let the statement go unchallenged. As far as Jeremiah goes, I suspect that he would have little patience with those who think that mankind's efforts will someday produce a utopia. He seems to say that it will take an act of God to change mankind. Rich Hammond