From: utzoo!hcr!anton Newsgroups: net.singles Title: telepathic rejection as a way of life ???? Article-I.D.: hcr.335 Posted: Tue Mar 1 19:33:56 1983 Received: Tue Mar 1 19:43:19 1983 Sarah's (ihldt!luchs) reply to the Hennessey questionaire mentions "Body Language" being automatic. Ha ! Tough lines folks, it isn't. It probably won't bother you for the most part, but there are a few exceptions. Let's start with "I'm English". You think I speak English and I think (sometimes) what you are speaking is English. Only I remember the great arguments I had on and derived from net.nlang last year. It may be English, but the vocabulary is slightly different and the semantics quite different. When it comes to the semiotics (or background cultural sybol sets) it is very different. Now there is a lot of overlap; T. S. Eliot seems very English, but he worked at it. Much of the 'New England' heritage overlaps with mine so as to avoid confusion. The west coast is another matter; maybe I will relate anecdotes one day, but I had quite a few ammusing (in retrospective) confusions. Here in Toronto I am in contact with a culture that thinks it wants to appear English, even though it adopts many cultural features of its more southerly cousins wholesale. Body Language is another matter. That kind of communication depends on interaction with people, and it is the level of interaction that shapes the nature of the "Body Language" in a culture. Canadians deal with Americans, so for the most part they have 'American' "Body Language". If you read the book "Body Language" by Julian Fast (?) you will see some examples of inter-cultural message corruption. The one that troubles me the most is the idea of 'personal space'. Europeans use less space for their psyches than Americans (this is a comment, no value judgement intended) and so stand closer when conversing. Put a European and an American in conversation and (maybe) the European edges closer and the American edges back, each trying to find a psychologically confortable speaking distance. In addition, the way Americans can 'invade' each others 'body-space' is well defined, along the lines of 'in - slap shoulder - withdraw'. The English are probably the least 'touching' of the Europeans, but still invade each other's 'body-space' more than the Americans. Small consolation: the Quebeqois have a fairly French culture, so this does not bother them so much. Problem is that like the French French they are often very touchy if you can't use their language properly - and of course my French is abysmal. BIG Problem: French (or Quebec) MOTOS are (in my opinion) extremely attractive. I can avoid being *TOTALLY* misinterpreted; what is in my cultural terms normal speaking distance looks like I am trying out moves to an American, which is awkward since (depending on gender) it makes me seem either gay (a generic term in English English) or fresh. So I just sit up straight and emulate the 'staid' Englishman of net.jokes. That, dear readers, is a good way to kill off any potential relationship. The contrary problem also exists; I 'look interested' at a girl at a party or whatever and what comes back does not tie in with my own cultural repiles, either yea or nay. I become confused. Probably she becomes confused as well, for I am probably misinterpreting her signals. So, why aren't all you "Ethnics" suffering the same thing ? Maybe you are: probably you are socially involved primarily with people who belong to a similar sub-culture. However, you at least grew up over here, you probably learnt may of the accepted patterns merely because you interacted with 'mainstream' American culture from an early age. I, and I should think many other people in my situation, are having to learn late in life, and often through many mistakes. What makes it hard is that one often does not know what the mistake is. Did you appear to 'approach' to fast or did s/he really not like you ? It makes trying to become friendly as opposed to trying to establish a closer relationship difficult as well. So, Give us telepathy or give us a little more tolerance and understanding. "I'm not a wolf or trying anything on, I just feel ridiculous trying to talk to you from this distance." =========== Now, laugh: here is an anecdote of sorts. How do you know if she is likely to be interested ? In Hawaii it is the side of her head she wears the flower, in Anglo-Saxon culture the wedding and engagement rings are worn on the left hand, on continental Europe they are worn on the right hand. (In Quebec ? I have problems.) Similar signals exist in other cultures. However fem-lib has women who are married or otherwise co-habiting NOT wearing rings. So how do you tell ? Probably you folks have other social signs, "the sparkle in her eyes" or something equally "telepathic". (Come to that, how do the women tell if a man is single or not ? Perhaps this is why it is the man who is normally expected to make the first move !) Food for thought ? ... this morsel brought to you by ... /anton aylward HCRC ..decvax!hcr!hcrvax!anton (please note the return address is NOT what is on the news header.)