From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!hplabsb!soreff Newsgroups: net.politics Title: Re: Social Security - (nf) Article-I.D.: hplabsb.1305 Posted: Sat Jan 22 13:18:18 1983 Received: Mon Jan 24 05:17:44 1983 References: ihlpb.259 I think that the current system should be altered to make it actuarially sound, but that adding a "need" criterion would be a bad idea. I suspect if enough need based criteria were added to social security then the middle class would wind up paying into it but not getting any return from it. This may present more of a problem in keeping social security viable then in keeping most transfer programs viable because a lot of the non-humanitarian arguments in favor of other transfer programs do not apply to social security. A lot of welfare programs, for instance, are partly justified because they keep the inner cities calmer then they would otherwise be. I suspect that the hazard from rioting low income retirees is not sufficient to help maintain a transfer payment system. Another argument that applies to some programs such as student loans and other educational programs (and, to some extent, aid to families with dependent children) and job training programs etc. is that they are really investments in human capital, on which the entire society can expect some returns when the immediate beneficiarys leave the program. As the typical retiree leaves retirement by expiring, human capital formation arguments don't really apply. Personally, I don't really expect social security to be there when I retire, simply for actuarial reasons. It is going to be hard to provide for the retirement of baby boom people no matter what happens. I DO have a stake in seeing the system assist my parents' retirement. A needs test added to the system would remove that stake in it for me, and probably for many others. -Jeffrey Soreff (hplabsb!soreff)