From: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!CAD:tektronix!tekmdp!bronze!grahamr Newsgroups: net.aviation Title: Re: safety pilots Article-I.D.: bronze.368 Posted: Wed Jan 12 09:18:33 1983 Received: Fri Jan 14 08:43:29 1983 I think I can shed some more regulatory murk on the subject. FAR Part 1 gives: "Flight time" means the time from the moment the aircraft first moves under its own power [Ed note: what about sailplanes?????] for the purpose of flight until the moment it comes to rest at the next point of landing.... "Pilot in command" means the pilot responsible for the operation and safety of an aircraft during flight time.... "Second in command" means a pilot who is designated to be second in command of an aircraft during flight time. As we all know here in software engineering, being responsible for something's operation is not the same as being the person who makes it operate. The "sole manipulator" phrase appears in part 61 in connection with *logging* the time, *not* in the definition of "pilot in command." The way I read the regulations, either the hooded pilot or the safety pilot can log pilot-in-command time, but not both. The other person can log second-in-command time. There *is* a regulation (91.21(b)(1), mentioned by rabbit!ark) that requires two pilots when one of them is hooded. Because of this, the multiple-pilot clauses in 61.51(c)(2,3) go into effect: "A ... pilot may log as pilot in command time ... that flight time ... when he acts as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under ... the regulations under which the flight is conducted." [Similarly for second in command.] Under this clause, the pilot in command need not be sole manipulator of the controls. Furthermore, second in command just has to be "designated." It looks to me like you can designate yourselves and then go flying. If you designate yourselves afterwards nobody will know the difference. A logbook entry showing second in command AND simulated instrument time might look a little funny, but I think it's legal. -Graham Ross, Tektronix from uucp (ucbvax|decvax)!teklabs!tekmdp!grahamr from arpa tekmdp!grahamr.tek@rand-relay from csnet tekmdp!grahamr@tek