From: utzoo!mark Newsgroups: net.followup Title: Re: atheist/agnostic Article-I.D.: utzoo.2767 Posted: Thu Jan 20 23:25:26 1983 Received: Thu Jan 20 23:25:26 1983 References: utzoo.2763 someone recently presented that old chestnut "there are no atheists in foxholes". this strikes me as the defense of one who can't stand the idea that his beleifs might be open to question. it is akin to "we all REALLY worship the same god", which is applied to jews, moslems, christians, buddists, etc., with all their sub-catagories. such assertions are both a sign of lack of self-confidance and a potential insult to those lumped in with the speaker. i don't doubt that some have found religion under fire, though i do doubt that such conversions necessarily outlast the shelling. deathbed recantations are well-known (eg. cyrano de bergerac, charles darwin), and i think the two phenomena are similar: they owe more to panic and a childhood indoctrination with a fear of fire and brimstone than to reasoned opinion. i did not have such an upbringing, and very much doubt that i would turn christian in a foxhole, although this has never come very close to being tested. religious feelings simply do not come naturally to my mind. BTW i call myself an atheist, although by a recently posted set of definitions i am "unreligious": i would beleive in a god (or gods) if presented with good, hard evidence. i invite submission of such (preferably by mail; i think this discussion will take up enough net space without adding tertiary responses), but warn that "the universe couldn't have happened by accident", or "100 million christians must know SOMETHING" don't qualify as evidence. let the roast begin! not afraid of bolts from above mARK bLOORE univ. of toronto