From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!ihps3!ihps1!lro
Newsgroups: net.jokes.d
Title: Response to Linda Seltzer
Article-I.D.: ihps1.106
Posted: Thu Sep  9 10:59:07 1982
Received: Fri Sep 10 04:17:44 1982

	I just finished reading your "Open letter to Steve", and I don't under-
stand why you feel so offended by co-ed jokes. Co-ed jokes are simply another
form of ethnic, and religious jokes that constantly appear on the net. (Or 
maybe you are offended by those also and don't read them.)
	Jokes such as those are only as insulting as the reader makes them.
Granted there are males in society that still view woman as sex objects and
feel that their place is in the kitchen, but people such as this will always
exist in society. The important thing is that they are quickly becoming the
minority.
	As for your point about the first women in engineering, I don't see
how they had it worse than pioneers in any other field. I realize women
had to face many problems to become accepted in the engineering universe,
but anytime people try to change they will face some kind of obstacles. I
am a Japanese American. My grandparents came to America just before the
start of World War II. In 1942, my grandparents, my father, and three of
my aunts were place in relocation camps, even though two of my uncles fought
in the war on the side of the United States. (Very logical isn't it?) After
the war the situation was not much better. My grandfather was educated at
Wasada University in Japan, one of the best schools in the country, but be-
cause he was Japanese he grew old without the social respect of equally 
intelligent WHITE men. The point is, I could remain very bitter about these
things, and I could hold Americans responsible, but it does no good. I am
just thankful that I have a better life because my ancestor were willing to
face these things.
	Also, I may not know what it is like to sit a classroom full of males
who consider me a sex object and a social outcast, but do you know what it is
like to walk into a bar, and have someone begin talking at the top of his
voice about how he hates "gooks", and how they shouldn't be allowed in public
places. As I said before, people like that are always going to exist in
society, there is nothing you or I can do to eliminate them. Even though I have
had people act prejudicedly towards me because of my race, I still see nothing
wrong with ethnic jokes, even those that make fun of the Japanese. (Did you
ever hear the song, "I'm turning Japanese", which was popular a couple years
ago?) One year in college, on Dec. 7, ("Slap a Jap day" as it was affectionately
called) some guys on my dorm floor dressed up in ROTC uniforms, came to my
room, carried me to the showers, sang The Star Spangled Banner, and then
threw me in. I consider that one of the funniest things that ever happened to
me.
	I see nothing wrong with Co-ed jokes and I think that satirizing women
in the way that the jokes do can actually make people realize how ridiculous
some of our ideas of women are. Maybe you should look at them as jokes instead
of taking them seriously, some of them really are funny.

					Lance Ogasawara
					ihps1!lro

P.S. Women engineers are not the only social outcasts. Engineers in general
     stereotypically wear thick plastic frame glasses, walk around with
     calculators hanging from their belt, and dress as if they are expecting
     another great flood.