From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!floyd!vax135!lime!we13!plw Newsgroups: net.followup Title: Re: Dr. D., math, etc. Article-I.D.: we13.250 Posted: Tue May 11 02:32:35 1982 Received: Wed May 12 00:31:08 1982 I have followed this discussion with some interest and it seems to me that there is some disagreement about programmers and programming. I have held the impression that people twiddling bits at machine level and those doing applications work in inventory control, accounting, physics, astronomy,etc. are all programmers doing programming. Of course, each of these areas require differing levels of expertise in mathematics. I doubt that those with a weak background in math are designing compilers or operating systems. After reading only one book by Dr. Dijkstra, I get the impression that he is a programming theorist. His SIGPLAN notice posted to the net is nothing more than the usual complaint by theorists that the implementation of their theories is lacking. Each of the languages that he denigrates in the notice are probably very good for writing applications software that do useful work for their users. However, I must agree with him that none of them are any good for teaching programming principles and techniques. These languages do teach some very basic (no pun intended) things about programming -- we must tell the computer each little thing we want it to do and in the order we want it done. This serves to remind us that we are not dealing with an intuitive entity. I think his point is that the structure(sigh), efficiency, correctness, etc. of a program is based in mathematics - at least on a theoritical level - and programming theory (discipline) requires a strong mathematical background. He rues the fact that more emphasis is being placed on application than on technique. Pete Wilson ...we13!plw