From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!floyd!cmcl2!tihor
Newsgroups: net.games.frp
Title: Re: fantasy role playing games
Article-I.D.: cmcl2.4543
Posted: Tue Jun 15 16:27:22 1982
Received: Thu Jun 17 03:44:14 1982
References: watarts.1296 alice.658

Hm.  Sigh.  I have remained a silent observer of this list largely out of 
inertia and because much of this material has been discussed in the APAs
over the years, however if no one is willing to start explaining things
or respond to questions I guess I ought to.   

I have been playing RPGs since December of 1974, not quite the beginning
of the hobby since I know at least two people in the NY area who had
been playing RPGs for five or six years before that, but certainly a while
ago and enought to qualify as one of the more experienced players.  As with
most people I started playing using good old original D&D (tm TSR) and
as with everyone else found it beautifully ambigous and incomplete.  

As is only proper the group of NYers for whom I was the usual DM worked
on a variety of fixes to the game and in the SF and Diplomacy tradition
frlom which many of us came even published a fanzine Fire The Arquibusiers!
for a few issues.  Most of us have remained active in the hobby using a 
variety of RPGs and at least reading most of the new games that come out.
(Many of us were involved with SPI and the wargamming tradition, some
are full time game designers and reviewers.)   

I am trying to provide a proper context for my comments but am really 
uncomfortable about blowing my own horn to any great extent...also I
am unsure about what games people would really be interested hearing about...

                   What is there besides AD&D?

Well, leaving the TSR games aside among the games which I consider to
have some real merits are the second generation RPGs:

	Tunnels and Trolls,	RuneQuest, 	Chivalry and Sorcery,
	In The Labyrinth (from Metagamming based on Jackson's Melee and Wizard)

among the Fantasy RPGs.  I will comment very briefy on these, person interest 
in more should let me know (by mail please -- 'r' -- if you don't have a 
comment of general interest) and I will elaborate in the areas you ask about.

T&T -- Ken St. A -- Flying Buffalo Inc. -- certainly the simplest of the RPGs
T&T is a level based game with two real classes, fighter and mage, plus a
funny cross-class, Rogue, based on Fritz Leiber's Gray Mouser, a character
who can fight but not as well as a fighter and can cast spells but not as well
as a mage.  Among the games attributes are: characteristics increase with
levels (the so-called Spiderman model of the high level fighter), a 
simple combat system with damage dependant on weapon type, weapon type 
usable dependant on characteristics, and no separate To Hit roll, you
just roll the damage dice subtract your opponents roll and the loser 
(lower) takes the difference in damage, which system neatly generalizes 
into a mass melee system, and cute spell names for most of the usual 
flavor of spells.  Perhaps the most significant thing about T&T is that 
FBI publishes their series of Solo RPGs for it (indeed I believe that
FBI pioneered the paragraph based solo games.)

RQ! -
certainly one of the best RPGs available - RQ! was designed by Steve Perrin and
that group of SF/SCA gamers with/for Greg Staffords own world of Glorantha --
The Chaosium, a bunch of very nice people with a lot of right ideas about things
and a very good attitude --  RQ! and the related BRP (Basic RolePlaying)
based games dropped the silly idea of character classes and are oriented around
skills.  Further they drop the rather arbitrary idea of experience points 
in favor of a training ----

Gota go now			TO BE CONTINUED