From: utzoo!decvax!harpo!ihps3!ihuxv!portegys Newsgroups: net.misc Title: Can determinism be proven? Article-I.D.: ihuxv.213 Posted: Mon Aug 9 14:51:57 1982 Received: Tue Aug 10 03:49:42 1982 I think that it is not possible for a being contained in a system to ever know the system completely. Because, to know the system completely would be to also understand itself within the system completely, which would be a model of itself contained within a model of itself contained within a model of itself ... an infinite regress. This bears on determinism vs free will in that I think in order to show one vs the other, it is necessary to have a perfect knowledge of the world, which cannot be done. So, if you can't choose conclusively between them, why not just use the one that fits the situation best? For science, determinism seems to be most appropriate. For accounting for a person's responsibilities within society, I think a free will model works better. Tom Portegys