From: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!ARPAVAX:UNKNOWN:sf-lovers Newsgroups: fa.sf-lovers Title: SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #49 Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8499 Posted: Wed Sep 15 05:28:48 1982 Received: Wed Sep 22 07:48:07 1982 >From SFL@SRI-CSL Wed Sep 15 05:09:49 1982 SF-LOVERS Digest Thursday, 2 Sep 1982 Volume 6 : Issue 49 Today's Topics: Administrivia - Opinions from SU-LOTS, SF Topics - Opinions from SU-LOTS ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wednesday, September 1, 1982 10:07AM From: Jim McGrath (The Moderator)Reply-to: SF-LOVERS-REQUEST at SRI-CSL Subject: Opinions from SU-LOTS Some of the following material is from the BBoard at SU-LOTS, and was submitted by Stuart M. Cracraft (mclure at SRI-UNIX). It was thought to be of interest to the readership. Since LOTS is not on the net, responses cannot be made to the original submitters - however, people should feel free to discuss the topics and issues raised. Jim ------------------------------ Date: 18 Aug 1982 0852-PDT From: Mike Peeler Subject: 1-dim ratings One-dimensional ratings do not at all indicate one-dimensionality of the field. It shows only that the opinions expressed are one-dimensional. You can feel your heart while reading and come up with an assessment of the intensity of your response. That technique seems to reduce the problem to a simple magnitude without any preten- sion of capturing the full richness of the field in one little number. Regards, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tuesday, 17 August 1982 05:42-EDT From: RG.JMTURN at MIT-MC Subject: Correction to LOTS comment Anne McCaffrey's secondary Dragonrider series (A.K.A the Harper Hall series) runs Dragonsong, Dragonsinger, Dragondrums. James ------------------------------ Date: 26 Aug 1982 2030-EDT From: Larry Seiler Subject: Correction to a correction on opinions from su-lots A person called "csin!cjh@CCA-UNIX" made the following statement: DUNE does not pander to any mystic cult; it came out before almost all of the popular expressions of drugs (e.g. songs ranging from "Mr. Tambourine Man" to "Puff, the Magic Dragon" ... Lets set the record straight: "Puff, the Magic Dragon" was not written as a drug song. DUNE is copyright 1965; "Puff..." was written around 1960. So if DUNE predates popular drug usage, so does the song. And if you prefer a more straigtforward proof, Paul Stookey stated in an interview that it wasn't written as a drug song. So why does it use drug terminology? Most likely, the terminology was copied from the song. 'Nuff said. Larry ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jul 1982 1432-PDT From: M.McLure at SU-LOTS (Stuart M. Cracraft) Subject: Dune and Farmer M.MELKAR wondered how Herbert could produce such a winner as Dune and such losers as its sequels. Simple! It is fairly well known that Herbert was getting a lot of advice from John W. Campbell during the period when he was writing Dune. I believe that Campbell could almost be listed as a second author of Dune. He probably injected an enormous number of suggestions into its creation. Herbert has not admitted this, but many critics believe it to be true nonetheless. Campbell was also responsible for much of the idea behind the Foundation trilogy. Asimov has been truthful enough to admit his debt to Campbell for this help. Campbell is probably partially responsible for numerous other classics and was the main shaper of SF as we know it. Back to Farmer again. One of my favorite quotes about Farmer's writing is in an essay by Rottensteiner in one of the Science Fiction Studies criticism collections: (In reference to TO YOUR SCATTERED BODIES GO) "What little value the novel has lies wholly in the fact that it presents in an almost pure form the particular method of mass-market SF -- that is, playing around with a limited set of elements that are combined and recombined to infinity. A kaleidoscope of oddities that is simultaneously derivative, self-perpetuating and incestuous; a mixtum compositum of almost unlimited assimilative powers, ahistorical and devaluating; readily accepting what is intellectually bankrupt, and bankrupting what initially had some value, before it was drawn into the gigantic junk-yard of SF, where everything is but a pretext for another cops-and-robbers story -- regardless how the figures are called, and whether the background is the earth, some other planet, the galaxy, past present or future, some other dimension, or indeed the afterlife. What does this all suggest? Farmer presents hellish worlds, before birth and after it, into which a vague hope is introduced only as an additional torture. They depict various degrees of degradation of man, and reject the autonomy of human values and human beings. These stories proclaim the Fortean doctrine that man is only property, utterly at the mercy of beings with remarkable powers, "gods" or "ethicals," who appear to be childlike, prankish, sadistic dimwits, taking delight only in causing pain and suffering. Even death offers no escape from the torturers since it has lost its uniqueness and become a playful act that can be reversed or repeated at will. The author of such "gods" does in fiction what they are supposed to do in reality: he plays around with shocking situations and possibilities, without justifying them or giving them a larger meaning. Sometimes these creations are, in their vividness of description, remarkable as fruits of grotesque imagination; but I think they are never of any importance as speculative thought, as intellectual effort." ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jul 1982 1211-PDT From: T.TIME at SU-LOTS Subject: S.F. Authors One author that I didn't see on M.Melkars list of novels and authors was Andre Norton. I have only read one of her novels "Breed To Come" but I was very impressed by it. It is an Earth in the futur type story after all humans have left the planet and the animals have evolved. It's quite interesting. T.Parker ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 1982 1135-PDT From: M.MELKAR at SU-LOTS Subject: Science Fiction Rating list I think I'm not alone in appreciating A.AVERY's SF list even though his tastes are different from mine, thanks Avery. The following will be my last SF list, from here on I'll stick to specific reviews and kibbutzing other peoples lists. I attach all the usual caveats to this list: my tastes are jaded, etc. Poul Anderson Trader to the Stars B Mirekheim (sp?) B James Blish A Case of Conscience C+ [boring] S. Delany [an overrated author in my opinion] Triton C+ Charles V. DeVet, Katherine MacLean Second Game A+ H. Ellison I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream A+ [short stories] Frank Herbert Destination: Void C+ The God Makers C Aldous Huxley Brave New World A [a classic] Fritz Leiber [important author and a very nice man, too] -Leiber has written some excellent short stories- The Big Time B Stanislaw Lem [people tend to overrate this author though he is good] Solaris A Larry Niven [One of my favorites] The Mote in God's Eye B A Gift from Earth B The Flight of the Horse C [Niven's biggest turkey] A World out of Time B+ Long ARM of Gil Hamlin B Andre Norton Galactic Derelict B Moon of Three Rings C+ Star Gate B+ [My favorite by Norton] George Orwell 1984 A [a classic] Frederick Pohl Beyond the Blue Event Horizon A [Gateway sequel] J.R.R. Tolkien [the first and last in self consistant fantasy] Silmarillion A- [Melkar rules!] Hobbitt A+ Lord of the Rings A Farmer Giles of Ham B+ Smith of Wooton Major A [Avery is right on this one] The Adventures of Tom Bombadil B [never understood this one] Leaf by Niggle (sp?) A [Avery would love this] Evgeni Zamiatin [the Russian Orwell, though not as good] We A- This concludes my final list. I'd like to comment that too many times people sight the major authors such as Niven, LeGuin, Farmer for people to read without mentioning the less well known people who are just as good but so recent that their reputations are not yet established. Stephen Goldin is an execellent author and he has one claim to fame that to my knowledge no other SF author has: all his books are great (he's yet to write a turkey). No doubt in time that will change. "Second Game" by DeVet is among my favortites but I seem to be the fourth person who has read this novel, (classic case of the starving genius). Alexi Panshin is among the top five SF authors in my opinion, and hardly anyone has read him except for "Rite of Passage" which is an excellent book. His best work however, is the "Anthony Villiers series" which I intend to write a review on for BBOARD as soon as I've completed the David Lindsay review. Would anyone be willing to proof read my Alexi Panshin review, (preferably someone who has read the Villiers series)? I would still like to see other reviews, particularly by people with tastes different from Avery and myself. G. Allen ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 1982 1204-PDT From: P.PHIGMENT at SU-LOTS Subject: sf authors... Why didn't you give Jerry Pournelle any credit for The Mote in God's Eye, G. Allen? And if Larry Niven is one of your favorites, then why didn't you remember that Gil the ARM's last name is Hamilton? Just wondering, don't take me wrong. -pH ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 1982 1229-PDT From: M.McLure at SU-LOTS (Stuart M. Cracraft) Subject: Ellison's stories There's only so much of Harlan that I can take, but some of it is amazingly good, intense, vivid. For example, his story collection DEATHBIRD STORIES is one of my all-time favorite books. It's sort of an assemblage of his best work up until the time it was compiled. SHATTERDAY, his most recent collection, is also good, but rather different, more introspective, less frenetic. ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jul 1982 1628-PDT From: P.PARDNER at SU-LOTS Subject: Wiz. of Zao?? Has anyone read a sf novel, "the Wizard of Zao". That may not be the correct title, and I CAN'T remember who wrote it. If the name rings a bell, please let me know who authored it. It was a VERY cute sf/fantasy-type about a little green wizard (like Yoda, with a sense of humour) who has a knack for great jokes, screwing up spells, and general mischief. The reason I'm interested is that the author was supposedly making this book the first in a series of N (5? 6?), with one book devoted to each planet in his own little solar system. I'm very interested in finding out if any more have been forthcoming. As I recall, the book was one of the most DELIGHTFUL I'd ever read -- full of humour, fantasy, and a cute surprise ending when we find out who the wizard REALLY is. -- can anyone help? -- pardner ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest ***********************