From: utzoo!watmath!cbostrum
Newsgroups: net.misc
Title: Rationality requires Determinism! and other goodies
Article-I.D.: watmath.3162
Posted: Sat Jul 31 22:19:52 1982
Received: Sat Jul 31 23:52:15 1982

More re: determinism. In Jim Gardners essay, we find him talking about
absolute time ("3 seconds"). Thats pretty hard to do in that context.
We also have him saying that "You can predict what you can do". This is not
plausible either. In fact, it has been shown by Karl Popper and D.M. MacKay
that in a traditional deterministic system, it is impossible for internal
agents to predict with certainty what the behavior of the system will be,
even although it is in fact determined (in the sense that an outside
observer could perform the prediction with arbitrary precision). This has
been taken by MacKay as an argument for "free will". (He, by the way, is
a devout Xtian).

More re: Free Will. I fully fail to understand Brad Templetons claims about
the things that are impossible in a deterministic situation. Even if this
were so (and choice, thought, reason, etc were impossible) crying about it
doesnt establish Free Will, does it. Not only that, but I have never been
able to understand how the absense of determinism alone could provide Free
Will. As far as I can see, it would just be randomness, caprice. Even 
if we could control this randomness, as Brad claims, this just means we get
a unioning of the features of determinism and randomness, and I cannot see
Free Will in this at all. 
However, I would categorically deny (as a 30% devils advocate) that 
thought, choice, rationality, etc. were impossible in a deterministic 
environment. In fact, I think they make much more sense there than anywhere
else! This to me seems perfectly clear, but I would love to be dissuaded.