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SF-LOVERS Digest V6 #111 [message #8112] Wed, 01 August 2012 01:49
Originally posted by: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!sf-lovers
Article-I.D.: ucbvax.425
Posted: Sat Dec 18 16:01:39 1982
Received: Sun Dec 19 08:23:59 1982

>From SFL@SRI-CSL  Thu Dec 16 13:50:40 1982

SF-LOVERS Digest         Sunday, 19 Dec 1982      Volume 6 : Issue 111

Today's Topics:
    Themes  - sexism in Piers Anthony and SF, Time Travel, shrinking
	      in HGttG
    Misc    - HGttG in Nature, video game
    T.V.    - recent "Aliens/ET" show, SF and lack thereof
    Movies  - Star Trek, Airplane II, SW/TESB/ROTJ, Sir Alec G. alive

Date: 16 Dec 82 11:01:25-PST (Thu)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!burton at Ucb-C70
Subject: More Piers Anthony sexism

I have just completed Piers Anthony's "Viscous Circle", which is 
altogether a fine book. However, I noticed how blatantly sexist 
Anthony is in his science fiction; prior to this novel, I had only 
read his Xanth novels, and so contributed his sexism to the genre in
which he was writing. Now I can no longer use this excuse. Was it just
my imagination? Was I being overly sensitive? I realize Anthony's
sexism has been discussed on the net before, but has anyone discussed
his attitudes with regards to science fiction novels? I recall such
lines in "Viscous Circle" as:

        It is the nature of the [female] sex to not give love
        away, but to always use it to gain some advantage.

There were many instances (which I can't remember well enough to 
quote) where Anthony makes statements (such as the one above) about
various characteristics of the female sex, which I felt were at least
a little, and in some cases greatly, demeaning.  Has anyone else out
there read "Viscous Circle" and gotten a similar impression?

        Doug Burton


Date: 16 Dec 82 12:55:36-PST (Thu)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!CSvax.Pucc-H.Physics.els at
From: Ucb-C70
Subject: Sexism in SF

      If you want REAL sexism, try the Gor series!  I think it's every
REAL man's duty to read these books(or enough of them to get the
general idea) so that someday we can set things right and women can be
free to take on their true role in life!!!

       (---left as an exercise for the reader: is this
tongue-in-cheek, or is this for real!  You'll find out after
civilization falls!!!!!)

                                 els[Eric (the Barbarian) Strobel]


Date: 11 Dec 82 1:50:06-PST (Sat)
From: teklabs!tektronix!tekcad!franka at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: time travel, ST, and AIRPLANE II

        Re: time travel - My favorite story about time travel is "The
Time Hoppers" by Robert Siverberg. I know it's more of a story of the
human costs of time travel rather than the technical, but I still
think it's one of the best stories around.

        Re: City on the Edge of Forever - I have seen the TV show AND
read the original screen play (published in the book, "Six Modern
Science Fiction Plays" (I don't remember by whom)) and I find the
original script by Mr.  Ellison MUCH superior to the version shown on
TV. The script definitely de- served all the awards it won (I wish I
could say the same for the TV version...).

        I just got back from seeing "Airplane II: The Sequel". It is a
fantastic movie (if you liked the kind of bad jokes and horrible puns
in Airplane!). I won't tell you any more of the plot except that it
takes place on the first lunar shuttle flight and that several of the
cast are back. Also, in the closing credits it says, "Coming soon from
Paramount (or whatever the hell company made it), "AIRPLANE III"! I
heartily re- commend it to anyone who liked the first movie!
                                Frank Adrian

uucp:  {ucbvax,decvax,chico,pur-ee,cbosg,ihnss}!teklabs!tekcad!franka 
CSnet:  franka@tek ARPAnet: franka.tek@rand-relay


Date: 14 Dec 82 14:46:17-EST (Tue)
From: David Axler 
Subject: Time Travel books

(RE:  Request from Rene Steiner for favorites on this topic.)

     There are just too many time travel books to pick one favorite
easily.  Silverberg's "Up the Line" and Laumer's "The Great Time
Machine Hoax" are the funniest, while Poul Anderson's "Tau Zero" is
probably the most hard-scientific, as the time travel occurs solely as
the result of near-light velocity.  ,but deals nicely with some of the
paradoxes that others have avoided.  One of my all-time favorites,
though, is still Fritz Leiber's "The Big Time," plus his other stories
of the Change War.
      Open question:  Should alternate/parallel universe stories be
considered as a sub-genre of time-machine stories, since so many of
them are based on the [cliched] notion of the "effects" of changing
one (just one...) event in the past?  If so, then we'd have to count
books like Dick's "The Man in the High Castle", and Len Deighton's
      The latter, by the way, is actually quite well done
alternate-history sf.  Its basic premise is that the Allies lost WWII,
and its main character is an inspector at Scotland Yard under the new
regime.  He's British to the core, but the Yard is now under the
control of the British branch of the SS [whence the title..].


Date: 15 Dec 1982 9:40-PST
From: dietz%usc-cse@USC-ECL
Subject: HGttG in Nature

I noticed the following sentence at the beginning of a review in
Nature of the book "Cosmology, Physics and Philosophy":

    "The anciencts considered the ultimate question of 'Life, the
     Universe, and Everything' to be part of philosophy even though
     they were not sure the answer was 42..."

(Nature, 11/11/82, page 135)


Date: 15 Dec 82 19:38:59 EST  (Wed)
From: speaker.umcp-cs at UDel-Relay
Subject: Shrinking in HHGttG

    Date: 30 Nov 82 17:28:22-EST (Tue)
    From: David Axler 
    Subject: Shrinking in HHGttG

    I refer to is that dealing with the war between the V'l'hurg
    and the G'gugvunt [sp?], caused by Arthur's line "I've been
    having problems with my lifestyle lately" being sucked through
    a wormhole in space.  When the combatants recognize that it's
    actually due to an ape descendant that they're fighting, they
    combine their fleets and send them off to destroy Earth.  Alas,
    on arrival the entire fleet is swallowed by a dog!

But wait no...hadn't the earth been destroyed by this time?  Perhaps
the wormhole extended back through time as well, only to reach the two
armadas BEFORE earth's destruction?

    The TV version of this scene, by the way, has the battle
    set up as an arcade game -- a very nice touch.

That really WAS good, with flashing scores and video game sounds
and everything.

                        - Speaker


Date: Tuesday, 14 December 1982  13:11-EST
From: AGRE at MIT-MC
Subject: *** Special Video Game Alert ***

There is a rumor going about concerning a new video game called
Communist Mutants From Space.  Apparently there is a poster
advertizing the game.  I must have a copy.  If anyone could point me
at the manufacturer I would be most grateful.  If I succeed in finding
it, I'll send another message to sf-lovers for the curious.  Thanks
alot.  - pHil


Date: 15 Dec 1982 0559-PST
Subject: Recent "Aliens/ET" TV show
From: WMartin at Office-8 (Will Martin)

I hope that the readers of SFL had a chance to see the Robin Williams
"Aliens/ET" special shown Tuesday, 14 Dec.  Lots of good clips from
numerous SF movies.  One of them was especially interesting.  There
were two brief scenes from a movie identified as "George Pal's
CONQUEST OF SPACE (1953)" [I may have the date wrong].

These scenes depicted some special effects of an orbiting ring-type
space station and some EVA construction or similar activity.  They
seemed to be quite well done for that vintage; they were in color and
looked fairly realistic, at least on a TV screen.  I considered them
to look as good as the "2001" space station shots also shown.

This inspires me to wonder why I have not seen this movie before.  If
it is this good, why hasn't it made the rounds of the late-night SF
movies on TV?  Are these shots unrepresentative, being the only good
scenes in an otherwise-poor film?  Or is it, perhaps, a dull film from
most viewers' viewpoints, emphasizing technical effects with no story
[the title doesn't appeal to the normally horror-film-oriented TV
programmer, I am sure!].  Or is the film tied up in one of those silly
Hollywood legal snarls that restrict the availability of many films?

That brief exposure left me wanting to see the whole thing, and I have
no idea if I will ever be able to.

Will Martin


Date: 17 Dec 82 09:51-EST (Fri)
From: Robert (LISPer DM)Heller 
Subject: SciFi on the Tube (or lack thereof)

        One of the main reasons why science fiction serieses don't
seem to last on TV, is simply that they are not very profitable, at
least compaired with, for example, sit-coms.  For the most part, most
contemporary sorts of shows (ie cops&robbers, sit-coms,
doctor&hospital¶-medic dramas, etc.) use props, costumes, & sets
which are "off the self".  If fact, most sit-coms, probably use
costumes, props, etc. right out of Sears & Robuck!  In the case of
science fiction, everything (costumes, props, sets, etc.) must be
custom made (Sears does not sell Klingon uniforms, etc.)  The sets
often need special gadetry in them (blinking console lights, computer
readouts, etc.).  In addition, all sorts of expensive special effects
are needed.

        Another reason is that most of the people you run the TV
industry (corp. exe.'s of TV studios, etc.) may not know very much
about just what science fiction is - many of think that all you need
to do is to take a typical western, and replace the techology - ie
six-guns become lasers, horses become rocket ship fighters, indians
become Klingons, etc. but with the same basic plot (ie the bad guys
capture the girl, the good guys have a shoot-out with the bad guys,
and free the girl, and the chief good guy rides off into the sunset
with the girl....(yawn) -- or else they do things like Lost In Space,
which was just a hybredization of Lassie (complete with June
Lockhart!) & The Swiss Family Robbinson transposed into the 21st

        I have a sugestion for putting good science fiction on TV:
instead of trying to run a one hour per week sort of show (Star Trek,
Battlestart Glactica, etc), how about two to four SEPARATE serieses,
each with a 2-hour movie format, once a month per series, ie sort of
what one of networks did some time ago with McCloud, Columbo,
MacMillin & Wife, etc.  The could fill in the extra week movie slots
with regular movies.  This would give the producers of the shows more
time to do a good job and spread out the money a little better
(espcially if they only do two made-for-TV science fiction
movies/month and use box-office-paid-for movies the rest of the time).

                                Robert Heller


Date: 16 Dec 1982 0556-PST
From: Henry W. Miller 
Subject: How the Enterprise has changed

        Between the first and second movies, did you notice
the differences in the Enterprise?

1)      Kirk's quarters were much enhanced.  (naturally, since Kirk
just "took over" at the last minute in ST:TMP) But, in TWOK, it looked
as though the stateroom was tailored to Kirk's whims.  Although it was
not stated, could the Enterprise be Admiral Kirk's flagship?

2)      On the bridge: in the first movie, it was stand-up-and-
be-shaken-apart-in-wormhole action.  In TWOK, there were alcoves and
workstations around the place.

3)      Most important: In ST:TMP, to the right of the main
engineering console, ther was a corridor that Kirk and Scotty ran out
of to try to get to the transporter room to override a beamup.  In
TWOK, that corridor was replaced my the intermix reactor chamber in
which Spock died(?)

        How much time did intervene between the two movies?



Date: 14 Dec 82 12:38:38-PST (Tue)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!mcewan at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: Re: Luke's Failure in the Cave - (nf)

If light sabers are powered by the force, this points to Han as the
other, since he's the only non-jedi seen to use a light saber.

Personally, I doubt it.


Date: 16 Dec 82 12:27:03-PST (Thu)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!mcdaniel at Ucb-C70
Subject: OB1 a liar??? - (nf)

There have been two notes recently asserting that OB1 was lying about
Luke's parentage (one in fa.sf-lovers).

What people don't seem to be realizing is that there is a model for
this story.  It is known as the GOOD GUY/BAD GUY model.

OB1, Leia, Chewbacca, Han, et cetera are GOOD GUYS. These people are
kind (if kindness is returned), noble, honest, et cetera. They kill

Darth is a BAD GUY. He kills for pleasure, lies, is deceitful. For
example, he kowtows to the Emperor but later offers to help Luke kill
him for their own benefit. He enjoys strangling people (a nassssty
man, my precious . . .).

BAD GUYS lie. GOOD GUYS tell the truth.

OB1 says that Darth killed Luke's father. Darth says the he IS Luke's

Now, who are you supposed to believe?

                                  Tim McDaniel
                                  (. . . pur-ee!uiucdcs!mcdaniel)


Date: 17 Dec 1982 09:46 PST
From: Morrill at PARC-MAXC
Subject: Luke's hand

        After seeing TESB, a friend of mine questioned the present
where abouts of Luke's hand.  If someone was to retrieve it before the
tissue died, they could, in theory, clone it.  If the other hope is a
character that has not yet been introduced, perhaps its because the
other hope has not yet been born (cloned).


p.s. A long time ago, our galaxey was far, far away.


Date: 18 Dec 1982 1748-EST
Subject: Vader=Luke's father

One viewpoint that no one has mentioned yet is that maybe Vader really
is Luke's father, and Obi-Wan was speaking metaphorically when he said
that Vader killed Luke's dad.  That is, if the Vader personality was
sufficiently different from the Skywalker personality, Obi-Wan may
very well refer to Skywalker being dead, since the person he would
call Skywalker has ceased to exist.  I tend to think this a bit
unlikely though, since I don't believe Lucas would get into anything
so complex.

One other point about the scene on Dagobah:  at one point Yoda says to
Obi-Wan, in reference to Luke, "He is full of anger, just like his

Also, today's ridiculous suggestion for the other is Dudley Doright.
After all, despite appearing totally mindless, Dudley always gets his
man.  What better way to hide than to appear to be a mindless jerk?


Date: Saturday, 18 December 1982  17:56-EST
From: Vince Fuller 
Subject: Food for thought...........TESB, the 'other, etc.

    Date: 14 Dec 82 11:13:37-PST (Tue)
    From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!CSvax.Pucc-H.Physics.els
    From: at Ucb-C70
    To:   SF-LOVERS at MIT-MC
    Re:   Food for thought...........TESB, the 'other, etc.


         There are certain hints that Han is somewhat adept in the


The points made in this message are rather intriguing and lead me to a
slightly strange conclusion: Solo does have some mastery of the force,
but has obviously never had any training in it and doesn't seem to
have any deep mastery or understanding of what he does - he is an
'idiot savant' wielder of the force. I think he instinctively uses
parts of the force which are sensible enough to believe in - he is
incredibly 'lucky', but remember 'in my experience, there is no such
thing as luck', so luck is probably just an everyday manifestation of
the force, which some people happen to be blessed with an ability to
control (well, sort of...). What do others think of this slightly
off-the-wall conjecture?



Date: 14 Dec 82 20:31:10-PST (Tue)
From: decvax!cwruecmp!ccc at Ucb-C70
Subject: Alec Guiness

>From: Clayton M. Elwell [...!decvax!cwruecmp!ccc]

The reports of Alec Guiness's death have been greatly exaggerated.


Date: 16 Dec 82 8:09:48-PST (Thu)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!inuxa!claus at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: THE OTHER

        I've been reading arguments on who the 'OTHER' is for the last
month and would like to ask a general question.  Have all nine parts
of the Star Wars series(three sets of trilogies) already been outlined
by George Lucas, or is he just making this up as he goes along?  If
someone else takes over the production of the next movie in the series
will this result in inconsistenties?  And, if the outline for the
entire story does exist, how difficult would it be to obtain it?  Well
I guess I asked three questions instead of one, but I am really
interested in what anyone thinks about this?
        Thanks in advance.
                                Dave Claus
                                BTL/ABI Indy


Date: 14 Dec 82 15:35:24-PST (Tue)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!uiucdcs!mcewan at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: SW twenty times - (nf)

    I've got to have my eyes checked -- I could swear I just saw an
    article that said someone saw Star Wars TWENTY times!!!!!!!

It must have been a typo. It's obvious that everyone in this newsgroup
has seen SW at least 200 times.


Date: 14 Dec 82 17:28:32-PST (Tue)
From: decvax!utzoo!watmath!csc at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: SW twenty times

I was *REALLY* into Star Wars in my younger days...And I have seen it 
twenty-seven (27) times.
        Reminiscing about 90 cent movies...
        Jan Gray ...watmath!csc


Date: 14 Dec 82 15:58:15-PST (Tue)
From: decvax!microsof!uw-beave!ubc-visi!majka at Ucb-C70
Subject: SW too many times

A projectionist at a theatre in Halifax, Nova Scotia was taken out of
the theatre in a straight - jacket after he ran screaming out of the
projection room and attacked the screen.  SW/ANH had been showing
there for three months.

                                                     Marc Majka.


Date: 13 Dec 82 0:28:08-PST (Mon)
From: harpo!duke!unc!mcnc!ncsu!jcz at Ucb-C70
Subject: Re: SW other again
References: cwruecmp.321

How did the Princess get the 'droid that belonged to Obi-Wan?

The 'other hope' is R2D2!!



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