Article-I.D.: ucbvax.200
Posted: Fri Dec  3 22:29:12 1982
Received: Sun Dec  5 07:58:40 1982

>From SFL@SRI-CSL  Fri Dec  3 22:05:09 1982
Reply-To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
To: SF-LOVERS@SRI-CSL


SF-LOVERS Digest         Saturday, 4 Dec 1982      Volume 6 : Issue 96

Today's Topics:
    SF convention calendar
    Books  - Bradley's Darkover, Chalker's Well-World, Space Cat
    Themes - shrinking, time travel
    Misc   - Bookstores
    Query  - Sharra?
    Radio  - Dr. Demento
    Movies - make one in space, Star Wars / TESB clonage and the
	     Other, Revenge of the Jedi, Star Trek
    T.V.   - Star Trek and Kirk's Omega Glory recitation
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 3 December 1982 03:55 est
From: Schauble.Multics at MIT-MULTICS
Subject: SF convention calendar

Do you know the current location of Zellich's sf convention calendar?
If not, please put a query in the digest.
        Paul

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 0031-PST
From: Zellich at OFFICE-3 (Rich Zellich)
Subject: SF Cons listing updated

OFFICE-3 file CONS.TXT has been updated and is now ready for 
FTP.  OFFICE-3 supports the net-standard "ANONYMOUS" Login within FTP,
using any password.

CONS.TXT is currently 941 lines (or 44,017 characters).  Please try to
limit your FTP jobs to before 0600-CDT and after 1600-CDT if possible,
as the system is heavily loaded during the day.

Enjoy, Rich

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 1023-EST
From: Stephen R Balzac 
Subject: Darkover

        Chronologically, the first book is Darkover Landfall.  I think
the next one is Storm Queen, but am not sure.  I can probably find out
within a few days.  (or send me a list of the titles and I can put
them in order for you.  I just don't remember what they all are, off
hand.)

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 12:44:53-EST
From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX
Subject: re darkover

   MZB has said repeatedly that all of the books are independent and
can be read individually (with the possible exception of two pairs).
If you're really interested in tracing Darkovan history you're better
off getting the concordance rather than trying to disentangle the
books.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 1115-EST
From: Joseph M. Newcomer 
Subject: He Who Shrank

By H. Hesse, appeared in Amazing in 1936.  It has been reprinted in

Healy & McComas, Adventures in Time and Space (Ballantine 1975) 
Asimov, Before the Golden Age (if you have the paperback series, it
        is in volume 3)
                                        joe

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 12:45:38-EST
From: csin!cjh at CCA-UNIX
Subject: shrinking people

   Just remembered one that it seems nobody else has heard of:
MANALONE by Colin Kapp (English author, I believe he died recently).
The MITSFS has a British edition; I doubt it was ever published in
this country. Not much good as the entire plot keys on this one
character realizing that as a solution to the population problem
people have been shrunk to ca. 2 feet tall but think everything is
normal (the [hero] starts finding artifacts and mistaking them because
of scale problems, e.g. a creamer is believed to be a teapot).
   Kapp has done some good books, including THE WIZARD OF ANHARITTE (a
classic ASTOUNDING SF story that somehow came out in IF in 1972) and
THE SURVIVAL GAME (similar theme). Rated ALP: THE CHAOS WEAPON, a
"sequel" to PATTERNS OF CHAOS (ok).

------------------------------

Date: 3 December 1982 01:04-EST
From: "James Lewis Bean, Jr." 
Subject: Sharra?

I have seen several references to a character named Sharra.  Who is
Sharra?

                                                lewis
                                                bean at mit-mc

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 82 19:48:25 EST  (Thu)
From: Tim Maroney 
Subject: Re:  Who the Well is Nathan Brazil?

Nathan Brazil lied about being God, or so he later claimed.  It is
rather difficult to understand what "God" would be in the Markovian
universe, anyway; the person who made the Markovians?  As to why
Brazil turned Markovian inside the Well of Souls: I believe that the
console could only be accessed by a Markovian, so the computer
automatically made Brazil capable, assuming tha that was what he came
for.

What I like most about the Well World books is the incredible stream
of creativity, and the relatively coherent way in which these
extremely diverse and unusual elements are combined. I'm more than
willing to admit a few deficiencies in Chalker's style, though; I just
think his imagination makes up for these small flaws.
                                                Tim Maroney
                                                tim.unc@udel-relay
                                                (I'm sure!)

------------------------------

From: duntemann.wbst
Date: 3-Dec-82 12:56:42 EST
Subject: Space Cat!

If I can credit anything with making me go after a career (as yet only
partially realized) of writing SF, it would have to be Space Cat.  As 
Gail mentioned a few issues back, it was a series of children's books 
written by Ruthven (pronounced "Rivven") Todd.  I know of only four in
the series, and they are good beyond price, assuming you haven't 
completely lost the feel for how you felt at age 7.  Briefly:

SPACE CAT:  Air force colonel picks up a stray cat on the way to a
secret project called ZQX-1.  ZQX-1 is a rocketship a la destination
Moon, and said colonel is assigned to pilot it.  Colonel cons the air
force into building a space suit for Flyball and fitting a
spring-loaded g-hammock into the ship for him.  Flyball and colonel
reach the Moon in ZQX-1.  Colonel falls down in a cave an d springs a
leak.  Flyball patches leak in colonel's helmet with a sticky
sand-dollar shaped life-form growing in the cave.  Flyball runs into
some baloon creatures which have the interesting ability to float in
mid-vacuum.  (Even I caught that booboo, at age 7) ZQX-1 returns home
safe.  one gets the impression Flyball is the brains of the outfit.  
SPACE CAT VISITS VENUS:  Flyball and Colonel take a refitted ZQX-1 to
Venus, where they encounter telepathic moss, ammonia storms, and (best
of all) a creature called a wyrgmbumia which resembles a bunch of 
bananas with sagebrush growing on top, very evil and a dastardly 
streetfighter.  Colonel gets half-swallowed by the wyrgmbumnia before 
Flyball dispatches it.

SPACE CAT MEETS MARS:  On the way back from Venus colonel finds the
ZQX-1 has blue venus sand fused into the rocket tubes.  Since Earth is
on the other side of the sun, they take a long orbit to Mars to clean
the tubes out.  While on Mars they find six-legged talking mice
(interesting problem for Flyball) and a native lady Martian cat named
Moofa.  Once the colonel cleans out the tubs and has some other
adventures, the three of them return to Earth.

SPACE CAT AND THE KITTENS:  Some time later, Earth has built a
hyperdriven spaceship namedd Einstein, and Flyball and Moofa have
produced a pair of kittens, Marty and Tailspin.  Together they go off
to Alpha Centauri with the colonel and another man.  They find a
planet full of miniature dinosaurs.  Flyball and Moofa take a back
seat to the kittens this time.  After a great fight with an 18-inch
tyrannosaurus, they all bundle up and head back.

Dumb, huh?  I suppose.  There were some really well-done drawings in
the books, and Flyball in particular had an ironic grin that I will 
always remember.  I'll gladly pay five bucks for any of these books in
any condition, and ten bucks for any in really good condition.  Were
it not for Flyball, I could well have grown up to be an insurance 
salesman.  THAT is a debt not easily repaid.

--Jeff Dunteman 301 Susquehanna Road Rochester NY 14618
  (duntemann.wbst@PARC-MAXC)

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 2118-EST
From: DAA at MIT-DMS (David A. Adler)
Subject: Bookstore

Re: gail at RAND-UNIX's book list

The unknown bookstore in Cambridge is the Science Fantasy Bookstore at
18 Eliot Street. It is located in Harvard Square across from the 
Harvard/Brattle MBTA bus stop. According to their add in the phone 
book they are New England's largest selection of SF&F books. They have
a wide selection of both used and new books.

--David

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 82 21:24:42 EST  (Fri)
From: Rene Steiner 
Subject: Time travel

There are a lot of books concerning time travel, some good and some
not so good. What are some favorites?

Some of my favorite odd ones are:
        Dinosaur Beach (Keith Laumer?)
        The Man who Folded Himself (David Gerrold -my main
                        objection is the fact that it's
                TOTALLY subjective - there is no
                        mention of the outside world. On the
                        other hand, it would be
                        hard to write that story any other way.)
        The Flight of the Horse (Larry Niven)
        Roadmarks (Zelazny, and which may not count...)

Tne I didn't particularly care for was called (I think) "Mammoth" and
was about a house built in the age of the dinosaurs. I'm not really
sure why I didn't like it (I read it a few years ago); something to do
with Not Much Happens.

Anyone care to branch into this subject of discussion?

                                        - rene

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 1147-PST
From: KRIEGER 
Subject: some miscellaneous commenta

Comments. Anyway, I have been taking in various discussions going on
in SFLD, and now that I feel that the dust has settled, I shall voice
a few thoughts.

re: Star Trek. The Doomsday Machine and Balance of Terror are indeed
two great episodes. William Windom's performance as Matt Decker in the
latter is a great standout for fanatics of unbalanced people.  This is
an old note, but there was a character named Decker in ST-TMP. In The
City on the Edge of Forever, the potion McCoy injected himself with
was an overdose of Cordrazine, which he brought to the bridge to
administer a VERY SMALL dose to Sulu, who had been hurt while the
Enterprise was being jostled by the "storm," which was actually "waves
of time displacement."  The woman Kirk falls in love with was named
Edith Keeler.  In defense of The Savage Curtain (anybody know why it
was called that? My ignorance is showing), I thought the molten-lava 
creature, Yarnek of Excalbia, was a GREAT alien. Also, we got a chance
to converse with Surak, "father of all we (the Vulcans) hold true."
About Spock's brain, the person (sorry) who was talknig about
confusion between 6th and 7th planets wrote about Sigma Draconis XII
(12): watch when you change numerals. Last note on ST: Yes, I have
read that Assignment: Earth was a pilot.

re: Shrinking. An obscure, C-grade (or worse) movie with a dumb title
was made called "Attack of the Puppet people." It starred John Hoyt as
a slightly deranged scientist who liked to shrink people because he
was lonely (I think). Supposedly loosely based on "Dr.  Cyclops." As
for "The Incredible Shrinking Man" shrinking down to nothing, recall
that the last line of the movie is "To God, there is no zero; I STILL
EXIST."

re: Exp. Dec.  This is the least technical or even apllicable to the
replies on this subject, but in "Moonraker," Drax gets whooshed out
into space at the end. I won't prolong a discussion on this poor 
excuse for a James Bond film (even a film).

re: Star Wars. I, too, lean toward the idea that the "another" in "No,
there is another." is an as yet unknown character; my impressions come
from stuff I have heard and read. Some of you people are really
creative out there, though. I also am leaning toward clone theories,
i.e., the following pairs: Obi-wan/Emperor, and Vader/Luke's Father. I
love how Lucas (or whoever else is responsible) is so vague in things
like this, and also such things as "the son of Skywalker must not
become a Jedi." Thanks heaps for the information. We have minds, so we
may speculate.

I haven't read for pleasure in months. I'm sincerely thinking about
picking up THE MOON IS A HARSH MISTRESS because it has so many
recommendations from people regarding its AI themes. Until I should
ever decide to speak again,

John

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 0128-EST
From: Steven J. Zeve 
Subject: Dr. Demento in New Jersey

     As of the last I know, Dr. Demento can be heard on WAPP (a new 
NYC station) in the northern areas of New Jersey.  I don't know the 
station frequency exactly, but it's an FM station somewhere around 
103.5.  'Fraid I don't know where Dr. Demento can be found in western 
Massachussetts though.

        Steve Z.

------------------------------

Date: 2 Dec 82 23:43:08-EST (Thu)
From: Steve Platt 
Subject: Assorted movies, tv, trash


Referring to "the other" is clearly a typographical error; Yoda has 
quite obviously stating, "...there is the author's hope..."
  Dig it; Lucas walking on-stage over to Vader, "Ok big guy, no more 
special effects for you..."

I think my favorite ST episode is the last one.  You may interpret 
that how you will.

-s

------------------------------

Date: 1 Dec 82 2:19:48-PST (Wed)
From: decvax!utzoo!watmath!bstempleton at Ucb-C70
Subject: Movies in space, and idea for George Lucas

A recent mention of movies in space brought back to me an old idea
that I have had for some time.  It might be neat if this message got
to Lucasfilms, although I won't be surprised if they have not already
thought of this.

The idea is to make a movie in the space shuttle, a science-fiction
one.  Such a movie would be about the near future exploration of
space.  The special effects would be great and you could get real
weightless shots.

The nice thing is that this is quite possible.  A director like George
Lucas or Steven Spielberg could afford to rent one shuttle flight,
although it would make the movie perhaps the most expensive ever made.
They could recover the cost because:
        a) The film would become an instant classic, as the first
movie
        made in space.  People would see it even if it were crap.
        b) A name like Lucas making an SF movie would cause millions
to see
        it even if it weren't in the shuttle.

The interesting point is that you could probably simulate the
weightless conditions with special effects right on earth for less
then the rental of a shuttle.  The reasons to take the shuttle are
        a) You can advertise that you shot the film in space and
        b) The director gets to go up on the shot, probably to act as
        cameraman as well, and thus realizes the dream of many an SF
        person, which is to go into space.

Find actors that can stand the free-fall and I'd be glad to crew such
a mission.  NASA might also approve because of their plan of taking
artists into space to bring back the message of space to the people.
What better way to do it than a Lucasfilms movie?

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 09:02 EST
Subject: Send in the Clones
From: Chris Heiny 

In the book versions of both SW & TESB the wars in which Obiwan, 
Darth, papa Skywalker, etc. are involved are referred to as the 
>Clone< wars, not the >Colon< wars.

Princess Leia's last name is Organa, which would probably account for 
all the Organia confusion.

                                        chris

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 1034-EST
From: Stephen R Balzac 
Subject: Clones

        In light of all this flaming about clones, I feel I should
send in a story I heard recently.


        There was this very famous lecturer, who, being so famous, was
very much in demand.  As a result, he was making megabucks.  However,
he was so booked up, that soon he had no time for anything else other
than lecturing.  Still, he didn't want to give up any lectures, even
when he nearly suffered a complete physical collapse.  His agent
pointed out to him, at this point, that he couldn't go on like that,
and suggested he have a clone of himself made.  It would solve all his
problems:  he could make as much money as before, and only do half the
work.  So the lecturer went to MIT and had them make a clone of him.
Well, this worked out fine at first, but after a few weeks something
began to go wrong.  The clone started telling off color stories and
became increasingly obscene.  The lecturer tried to stop this, and for
awhile he seemed to be succeeding, when, one evening, he got a call
from Harvard telling him that they would never allow him to speak
there again, after the foul and abusive language he used.  The
lecturer rushed to Boston and went up to his clone's hotel room, on
the 15th floor of the Hyatt.  He started speaking to the clone out on
the balcony.  Their conservation soon grew violent, and he hit the
clone, knocking him off the balcony, to his death 15 stories below.
Of course the police tried to arrest him, but they couldn't find a
charge that would stick.  Murder was out since the clone was him and
he was still alive.  Suicide was also out for the same reason.  But a
smart DA found a charge that would stick:  making an obscene clone
fall.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982  9:53:03 CST (Friday)
From: Jeff Bowles 
Subject: ROTJ


I especially enjoyed the material from the person at Rand-Relay who
said something about the Emperor's daughter being the new hope.  
Ridiculous as it sounds, I have heard it before from someone who
claimed to have "the inside story". (This person also claimed that
Boba Fett is a good guy, and was taking Han away to revive him.)

I don't know WHO the "other" is. I suppose that it's somebody we 
haven't met, and suspect that it's Luke's son. Probably the Vader/Luke
conflict will end (with Vader's timely demise) in ROTJ. We can only 
hope...


How does Lucasas plan to hide the advances in technology from the
movie- goers ? It would be a real problem if the first movie (the one
which has Obi-wan and Darth and Luke's Father and Leia's father and
the clones) has NEAT NEW weapons that outclass things in Star Wars,
which happens about 30 years later.

        Jeff

------------------------------

Date: 3 December 1982 21:27-EST
From: Charles F. Von Rospach 
Subject: The other...

At Octocon, they did a slide show on ROTJ. It was stated specifically 
that Obi does NOT return. There was one slide in which he appeared,
and they were very careful to say that he would be adding the
'ghosting' affect to him in the final print. It was about the only
specific thing they said at the showing, so I doubt obi-wan will
return.

It isn't 'klone' wars, or 'clone' wars, but colon wars. And it isn't 
colon for colonial. Someone stole the Emporer's Milk of Magnesia, and 
Vader (not Vadar or VADER) is his personal physician.

chuck (chuqui at mit-mc)

HAven't we pushed the cloning about as far is it will go? From the
previous movies, I think it is rather safe to say that the answers
will much much simpler than the tri-level
cloning/father/mother/sister/wookie mixtures that have been showing
up...

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982  1:51:22 EST (Friday)
From: David Mankins 
Subject: T'other

I think the other hope is Paul Muad D'ib, who will come riding a 
sand-worm out of the deserts of Tatooine, leading a pack of Fremen to
take over the galaxy, replacing Zen with Islam as the dominant
philosophy in the Star Wars mythology.

------------------------------

Date: 30 Nov 82 8:34:06-PST (Tue)
From: decvax!microsof!fluke!vax1.witters at Ucb-C70
Subject: Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back,  Radio Series

I received the following notice in the mail from the local public
radio station:

        The STAR WARS saga continues on public radio!  Beginning
Valentine's day 1983, listeners will thrill to the roar of terrifying
ice beasts, the crash and fire of lightsaber duels -- and the quiet
wisdom of wizened old Jedi master Yoda -- when National Public Radio
presents an all new, exclusive 10-part radio series based on the
record-breaking film sequel.  The series stars Mark Hamill as Luke
Skywalker, Anthony Daniels as See Threepio, and Billy Dee Williams as
Lando Calrissian.  Academy Award winning music and sound effects add
to the excitement!  Produced by National Public Radio in association
with KUSC-FM Los Angeles, and with the cooperation of Lucasfilm Ltd.

I received this from KUOW, Seattle, Washington.  I suspect the series
will also be broadcast by KPLU, Tacoma Washington.  Perhaps the radio
series will give some more clues as to who "The Other" is.  For those
who don't know, Valentine's day falls on Monday, February 14, 1983.

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 0221-PST
From: Henry W. Miller 
Subject: Re: The Other, etc.

        On the same hand, did you note that the term DEATH STAR was 
not used in the first movie?

-HWM

------------------------------

Date: 3-Dec-82 2:21PM-EST (Fri)
From: David Miller 
Subject: RotJ the Other etc...


Allright, I wanted to keep it a secret, but I can't stand seeing 
anymore of this mindless speculation.

THINK!  The Other is supposed to appear at the end of the next movie,
then s/he will not be seen again until episode VII.  Episode VII is
supposed to take place a while after RotJ, and will certainly not be
filmed less than ten years afterwards.  So you want a character that
can be played by one actor in the next film, and a different one years
from now.  In the series this could be done by having it be another
masked figure, but that would have to be a totally new character, and
I don't think Lucas is going to introduce anybody out of the blue.
Perhaps if it was a child in RotJ then s/he could be all grown in the
later films?  Yah that sounds pretty good, but where would a child
come from in this series...  maybe that shot of Leia immediately after
the discussion of Ben and Yoda about the other did mean something!  
Maybe Leia will have a child by ?  [pick one:  Luke, Han]

Sorry the correct answer is Vader.  Vader will have another son by
Leia.

What How???

Well remember that scene on Bespin where Han is thrown in to the cage
with Chewie, and says "I feel Terrible" well a minute later Leia is
thrown in.  Her makeup is smeared for the first time ever, she has
changed clothes, she is very depressed, but seemingly unhurt, yet says
in anguish "Why are they doing this?"  Han on the other hand, is in
terrible pain, is wearing his old clothes, and also depressed.  Leia's
torture seems reasonably obvious though not explicitly stated for
reasons of the movie's rating.

****Spoiler****

The final scene of RotJ is Leia and Han being chased by stormtroopers,
they come across a wandering Ricardo Montalban and his traveling zoo
of primitive primates.  Leia gives Ricardo the baby, the couple runs
on and eventually get gunned down.  Ricardo hides the baby in the
chimpanzee cage, where it utters the word "mama".

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 1982 10:44:52 EST (Friday)
From: Bernie Cosell 
Subject: Omega Glory Recitation

I thought that the document was the Constitution ("We the people...")
and not the Pledge of Allegiance ("I pledge allegiance to the
flag...")

    /Bernie

------------------------------

Date: 3 Dec 82 14:10:54 EST  (Fri)
From: Grumpy 
Subject: st: episodes and movie


Concerning the episode 'Miri'; the show started off with them running
around and wondering why in the hell there was a copy of Earth way out
here in an unexplored sector of the galaxy?  ("It's the same mass, the
same proportion of water to land, the same atmosphere composition,
even the continents are EXACTLY the same as Earth!") They even
mentioned that there had never been a colony out here, or anything,
yet they used an Earth-style SOS signal. Unfortunately, after the
first 15 min, all that wondering about the peculiar situation is lost
in the scurry for a cure to the dreaded 'grups' disease, and is never
picked up again.  Seemed to me that SOMEONE had a solution in mind,
but they ran out of time or money, or inspiration. Of course, this is
far from the only inconsistency in Star Trek; shall we make a list?  
(a good one is: why didn't they use the shuttle when the transporter
was broken? In many episodes this was the logical solution, but was
never thought of, e.g. in the episode "The Enemy Within" (or something
like that) where Kirk is split into his good and bad halves, and they
try to fix him before the people on the planet freeze to death.

On the first ST movie: it did have it's good points, one of them being
Spock's transformation. (If you get Starlog, you know all about this.)
He learned something about himself, and was a better man for it. I
think the movie was really his story, only it was a minor part of the
special effects and the rest of the 'plot'.  Of course, being so
changed he HAD to die in the next movie.  (Anyone familiar with the
Heroic tradition?) (just like Boromir and Frodo and other, more
traditional heros, whom I can't remember)

------------------------------

End of SF-LOVERS Digest
***********************