Originally posted by: utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!sf-lovers
Posted: Mon Nov 29 02:39:21 1982
Received: Wed Dec 1 05:18:28 1982
>From SFL@SRI-CSL Mon Nov 29 02:25:15 1982
Reply-To: SF-LOVERS at SRI-CSL
SF-LOVERS Digest Monday, 29 Nov 1982 Volume 6 : Issue 91
Books - Michener's SPACE, Wolfe's THE SWORD OF THE LICTOR, BINARY
Queries - explosive decompression
T.V. - Battlestar Ponderosa, favorite trek episodes
Movies - The Other & ice cream freezers in SW & TESB, prediction
for Star Trek III, The Last Unicorn
Music - country and western SF
Date: 27 Nov 82 16:41:05-PST (Sat)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!inuxd!arlan at Ucb-C70
Subject: Review of Michener's SPACE
I think my first effort bombed, so here's more:
I think SPACE treated sf generally very well. Weinbaum and Miller, as
well as Heinlein and Asimov were given high marke#s. And when one of
the astronauts crashed on the moon, his last words were "Blessed St.
Leibowitz, let 'm keep on dreamin' down there..."
Who could ask for a better recommendation for our genre?
Date: 28 Nov 1982 1652-CST
From: CS.EMERSON at UTEXAS-20
Subject: Sword of the Lictor
I have seen the 3rd volume of Gene Wolf's Book of the New Sun in
paperback, Sword of the Lictor, in Austin, Texas. Surely, it must
also be out now on the East and West coasts.
Date: 26 Nov 82 12:18:29-PST (Fri)
From: harpo!ihnp4!ixn5c!inuxc!pur-ee!CSvax.Pucc-H.Physics.retief at
Subject: True Names- Dell true to word
An article in fa.sf-lovers back in early sept. was claiming that
Dell books was hoarding its last copies of "True Names" in the Binary
Star #5 book. It said, though, that if you mailed in an order for it
Dell would have to send it. Well, I tried it and sure enough it
worked. Well, kind of. The copy I got had it's back slightly broken
(either by the mail or by big brother at Dell.) Still, if anyone was
thinking of trying it then now you know it really works. Here's the
order form that I used.
P.O. Box 1000
Pinebrook, N.J. 07058
Please send me ( ) copies of "Binary Star #5" containing
"Nightflyers" by George R. R. Martin and "True Names" by
Vernor Vinge. I am enclosing $_________ ($2.50 per copy
plus $0.75 per copy for postage and handling.)
Send check or money order - no cash or C.O.D.'s. Please
allow up to 8 weeks for shipment.
city ________________________ state/zip ___________________
Date: 28 Nov 1982 1943-EST
From: JHENDLER at BBNA
Subject: Explosive decompression
My experience as a dive instructor has caused me to look into a lot
of matters relating to decompression. I don't know much about the
changes from 1-0 ATM, but I'm pretty good on 1-10. Based on this
knowledge I'd opine that the only major problems in explosive
decompression will be the ear drums (needing roughly 5 psi to rupture,
1 ATM is 14.7 psi) and the lungs. In diving when one comes up the
danger is that air will be caught and expand causing a lung blowout.
This same could happen in explosive decompression. As a matter of
fact, the worst possible thing one could do would be to hold your
breathe. This would probably guarantee you an emoblism and a blown
out ear drum. Exhale slowly as possible and you should be able to
survive with few if any major problems until your air runs out.
(there is some questions about how bloodshot your eyes would look.
Most of us in diving think it would take longer for this damage to
occur than it would taker to run out of breat.)
Date: 29 November 1982 00:28-EST
From: Keith F. Lynch
Subject: Explosive decompression
I think the recent discussion about whether astronauts can survive
in zero pressure misses the point. The human body is a lot tougher
than most people seem to think. I wouldn't be surprised if someone
goes streaking on the Moon someday.
But if we are in space to stay, spacesuits must be not merely
survivable, but reasonably comfortable as well. We should be talking
about what the ideal spacesuit environment is, not about what is the
Date: 28-Nov-82 10:23:16-PST (Sun)
Subject: Battlestar Galactica
In response to your question of what was in the wreckage on the
planet in ''War of the Gods'' (was that the name of the episode?):
I have always thought that the wreckage itself was the remains
of the Battlestar Pegasus and the great Commander Cain's body (not
to be morbid) was lying right in the entryway (or what was left
of it). Think of it:
1) The Pegasus engaged Baltar's base star at the end of ''Living
Legend,'' and as Cain was not one to give up a battle and
Baltar was still living in ''War of the Gods,'' one can assume
that the Pegasus was destroyed.
2) Apollo said, when they first saw the wreck on the surface,
''Whatever hit this place must have been as big as a battlestar''
3) Neither Apollo nor Starbuck wanted Sheba to see what was inside.
Now, all three are warriors and have all seen dead and mutilated
bodies, so what could be worse? Well, would you want to show
someone their father's body?
4) Ibly said that Sheba would see her father again.
5) Ibly didn't want Sheba to go in there either (or for that matter,
Apollo or Starbuck!), maybe because he was responsible for the
Pegasus' destruction and didn't want Sheba to know that he had
killed her father (or even that her father was dead)
6) (My own opinion, not very objective) Very many fans wanted to
see the Pegasus and Cain alive at some time in the future, and
the writers, realizing that, never did say what the wreckage or
what was in it was; in this way, they didn't let the fans down.
Date: 28-Nov-82 4:55PM-EST (Sun)
From: Nathaniel Mishkin
Subject: The Other
Well, I just saw SWTESB for the 3rd time. Up until this time I was
fairly convinced that there really was a significant "other" and that
Luke Skywalker was a dead end. However, on this 3rd viewing, I gained
a new respect for Skywalker. Perhaps he's not the twerpy and
irresponsible "I've got to go help my friends, damn the training" guy
I thought he was. I mean there are enough times where other
characters point out how powerful the force is with him. Maybe he
really doesn't need all the training after all. Maybe he's really
mega-Jedi and all this "other" stuff is just a feint.
In the light of the other (relatively straightforward) plot
developments I guess this is pretty unlikely. Oh well.
Date: 28 Nov 1982 2122-PST
From: Henry W. Miller
Subject: The Other
My vote for the "other" is Han Solo. These are my reasons:
1) On Hoth, Han handled the light saber like an old pro.
2) It has been established in both movies that Han is a
pilot beyond compare. Obi Wan told Luke that he, like
his father were good pilots. Apparently, that is an
important part of Jedi Training.
3) When Han is confronted with a problem, we doesn't
think; he reacts. Remember his "commando charge"
on the Death Star, and diving into the asteroid
storm in TESB?
It is true that Han did not believe in the Force
in the first movie, but apparently he does in the second.
The Force seems to be with him.
Now that he is in the frozen state, it would be
a perfect opportunity for Yoda to guide him.
On a similar note, I would like to put forth the
following theory: If Darth Vader is indeed Luke's father,
than I propose that Obi Wan is Darth Vader's father.
Like father, like son, eh? It would explain much, such
as how Obi Wan knew so much about Luke, and why he never
told Luke about Vader (at least not all.)
But, I guess we'll all find out next May...
Date: Sunday, 28 November 1982 15:35-PST
From: Jonathan Alan Solomon
Subject: The Other [rebuttal]
[Here's a rebuttal to the vote for Leia]
Here's one vote for Other=Leia. Other suggestions seem ludicrous.
Question: why did Leia know to turn back to rescue Luke?
[Because Luke put the thought into her mind. She believes in Luke, and
Luke has better command of the Force than she does. She was thinking
about him and sensed Danger. Luke put the image of where he was and
how to get there into Leia's mind. It took only that and her belief
that it was possible to do this (well, she believes Luke capable of
anything, hence she was not shocked to find that thought in her
Question: Why has Luke and Leia been like brother-sister (hence
Hans as the romantic interest)?
[I'm not even going to try to answer this one. I don't think they were
brother/sister, even if they acted like it. It took my sister a LONG
while before she would begin to act like that to me, and even that was
short lived. I prefer to think of Luke-Leia as "very close friends".
You don't have to be brother/sister to be that way.]
Question: Why is it "princess" Leia, i.e. role of royalty/Jedi
rulers of empire after successful revolution????
[That has nothing to do with it. Princess Leia Organa is princess by
birth to the (now defunct) Organian world (planet). The significance
of "Princess" is an acknowledgement of her birthright. She may indeed
become Princess of the new "Republic", but that's no reason to call
her "Princess" now.]
WHAT IS THE FORCE?
The Force manipulation of reality by altering beliefs. VADER knows the
"art" of installing beliefs in the minds of the weak willed. He can do
it on a mass scale. Since he could never percieve himself doing truly
evil things, he created the Emperor to do them for him. The Emperor is
VADER's bad side. He feeds on VADER's passions. Poltergeists are
sometimes thought to be created by kids who are afraid of being caught
yet who have some urge to do mischief. Poltergeists are useful because
you can put the blame on them and act totally innocent, hiding the
reality of the situation from yourself forever.
The Force binds the universe together. Every physical object, living
or not, has a mapping into some universal array. Ideas are merely
conceptions of something not yet explained in this universal array.
If you decide that the world is made up of Protons, Neutrons, and
Electrons, and there is no strong opposition (counter-example) to that
theory, then it holds. Every mind in the universe begins to accept
this theory as fact. Once the theory is proven beyond reasonable
doubt, it becomes part of our interpretation of reality.
The manipulators of the Force (Luke, Vader, Obi-Wan, Yoda) can
manipulate that reality because he believes strongly that it is
possible. It is therefore said that "The Force is strong in him".
They have defined (in their minds) a representation of how to control
the beliefs of other beings. To lift the x-wing fighter out of the
swamp, all Yoda did was to make Luke believe that it was being done,
and then shift the consciousness of both Luke and himself such that
the object was moved to the desired location. The hand movements were
mere props, a way to help reinforce the belief. At the end it was
clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that the object had indeed been moved
to a location just outside the swamp. It had been lifted out with the
power of the force (as yet not clearly defined to Luke.)
He has alot of trouble believing that VADER is his father. There is
some reasonable doubt in his mind that VADER could be lying. Even if
VADER was telling the truth, Luke seems to have enough control of
himself to keep VADER from putting the thought that "his father knows
best" along side "VADER is his father", hence it is hard for Luke to
draw the conclusion that he should help VADER. Therefore, VADER
doesn't have as much control over him as he would have liked. If he
had more time to press the issue, he could have eventually convinced
Luke that he was his father, *and* what he (VADER) was doing was right
and just and Luke should follow in his footsteps. That would have made
Luke a powerful ally to the Emperor.
Just in the nick of time, they entered hyperspace. This separates Luke
from VADER and allows Luke to search his own mind for the true answer;
to "Search your feelings" as VADER put it. Luke can now do this
without the affects of VADER pounding it into him. He can decide who
to trust now, VADER or Obi-Wan. If he chooses to trust Obi-Wan and
Yoda, then he will be unwilling to let VADER push him off the dark
side edge. He will have won. *HE* will be the other hope.
WHAT IS THE OTHER HOPE
That's right, WHAT, not WHO. The "Other Hope" is an event, a turning
of the tide in Luke's mind. This is what is likely to happen in
"Revenge of the Jedi". He will go back to Yoda's planet (Degoba) and
confront Yoda and Obi-Wan. He will probably demand from Obi-Wan an
explanation as to why the "Truth" was hidden from him.
[Note: It is inconsequential whether or not VADER is Luke's father.
If VADER was lying about this, it could be pointed out to Luke that
either VADER or OBI-WAN is lying, and that Luke must decide for
himself which to believe. Believing in VADER means accepting the dark
side and being swallowed up in it. Believing OBI-WAN is the "Other
Hope" (you will note that I am leaning towards this interpretation).
If VADER *is* Luke's father. It could be rationalized as a character
flaw in Obi-Wan (Jedi or no, Obi-Wan is human). Obi-Wan could have
rationalized that Luke would refuse to fight his father so he felt
that it was reasonable to withold this information from Luke during
the training. Luke still has to decide whether or not to trust
Obi-Wan. Luke has an idea that if he DOES decide to side with VADER,
there is more than a chance that VADER will double cross him. This can
also be interpreted as the "Other Hope".]
"Decide you must, how to help you friends" --Yoda. What Yoda saw in
the future was a test of this situation. Yoda knew that Luke would be
confronted with this, his biggest insecurity. Luke had to get this
"lesson" in the field. It could not be taught to him on Degoba. He
would not learn it any other way. He has to accept this in order for
him to defeat VADER.
VADER seems very insecure for a powerful dark-side person, ESPECIALLY
when it comes to Luke. Until Luke came around, VADER percieved himself
as being the most powerful Jedi around. He knew that Obi-Wan would not
come near him because VADER was "stronger" of will than Obi-Wan was
(Obi-Wan was getting old and his will was weakening because of it).
Obi-Wan at least accepts this.
Luke, on the other hand, appears to have alot of security generated
from the devotion and love he has for his friends (and the feelings
they have for him). LUKE DOES NOT NEED VADER AS MUCH AS VADER FEELS
HE NEEDS LUKE. Luke can easily have a stronger will than VADER, but
VADER sees a way to break his will, by telling him in a truthful tone
that he is Luke's father. Luke is indeed tailspinning because of this,
but his senses don't fail him and he recovers admirably. He keeps
slipping into it until they get into Hyperspace because VADER is
strong at the exact point where Luke is weak. VADER uses this
"advantage" to win Luke's trust and confidence.
I think Yoda percieves that Luke's love/devotion to his friends (Han
Solo, Leia, Chewbacca, the Rebellion, etc. etc.) is stronger in him
than the elements of evil which could force him to the dark side. At
least this is Yoda's "Other Hope".
Again, there is a duality:
If VADER is Luke's father, Then VADER turned on the Jedi's by using
the dark side. Luke will have to avenge this even if it means killing
If VADER is not luke's father, then Luke will avenge VADER's lie, his
father's death (at the hands of VADER), *and* VADER's crimes against
It should be clear here why VADER being Luke's father is
insignificant. Either way, the Jedi will have their revenge against
VADER, because Luke will have to defend the Rebellion against VADER
and against the Emperor. He will defeat and kill VADER in "Revenge of
All of this will happen BEFORE Luke becomes a Jedi. In fact, Luke will
decide AFTER the rebellion is over to finish the Jedi training. Han
and Leia will marry and Han will live like a king everafter (that's of
course what he wants, eh?), free to explore space in the Millenium
Donations, Royalties, etc. to me, c/o this station (after the movie
comes out, of course).
Date: 27 Nov 82 23:11:41-EST (Sat)
From: Gene Spafford
Subject: Ice Cream Freezers
I assume that they needed some objects to fill out scenes, and they
(prop and set designers) used electric ice cream freezers. These are
the type that you might use at home, minus the elctrical cord, and
spray painted a flat color. The most blatant use in ST:TESB is the
scene in the floating city (the name escapes me at the moment) when
Lando tells the citizens to run for it. Amidst the people in the
background running around is one person with a freezer under his arm
(motor grill facing the screen) running about. Saving his peppermint
swirl, no doubt. That is not the only such scene. Anybody else seen
them? They're sort of like the fnords....
Date: Sunday, 28 November 1982 13:33-EST
From: Dave Goodine
Subject: Just a note to throw in on Star Wars:
Re: The real relationship between Darth Vader and Luke...
The word "Vader" is Dutch for "father".
Date: Sunday, 28 November 1982 14:10-EST
From: Dave Goodine
Subject: Prediction for Star Trek III
I have the following prediction that I thought I might share with the
readers, not as a "wait 'till the movie and see if I'm right", but as
an idea which might, at the very least, promote some discussion as to
the details and loose ends in TWOK. In any event, I would like to see
a movie that the following basic plot:(I'd love to see point G. become
a Star Trek reality, especially if the producers and/or actors are
thinking of wrapping up the whole Star Trek idea.
Given the following background from ST:TWOK and the series:
a) Kahn is the Bad guy and, though some may argue otherwise,
is VERY EVIL(at least so at the very point of his death).
b) When the Genesis bomb detonates, Kahn is the closest one to it,
therfore we cann assume, in fantasy, that his evilness
(and most of his body matter) is distributed over the area
which includes the genesis planet.
c) Therefore it would not be surprising to find the planet has an evil
essence about it.
d) Spock is dead. But we're only sure that his body is no longer
functioning. We all suspect that somehow, Spock has saved his
essence inside McCoy's brain... ("Remember!")
e) Spock's body is sent in a photon torpedo case to the "new"
f) Spock looks like the devil. Not only is this obvious to the viewer,
but it is mentioned in at least one episode of the series
((sorry: no title)The American Flag/U.S. Constitution episode)
and I believe, but am not sure, somewhere in TWOK. Anyways...
g) Therefore, I think that Kahn's evil essence will posess Spock's
mind. We already know that Nemoy has signed for the new film,
so he's going to be in it in some form or another. Put them
together and what do we get:an incredibly intelligent vulcan
with an unparalelled cunning and desire for revenge.
h) Now this will present a problem for Kirk and the Enterprise crew,
(which should be one hour and 30 minutes of the next film) but
who is the only one that can really save Spock?
g) (The Clincher:)
Dr. McCoy, who since the word "go" has been at odds with
Spock's ideals of logic and inner-battle against being human,
will be the only one who can free him from his demonic
enslavement(and save the universe). And thus, 1) DeForrest
Kelly finally get's an important part and 2) The longtime
rivalry will come to an end in a heroic act of courage.
Date: 28 Nov 1982 2132-PST
From: Henry W. Miller
Subject: Favorite Trek Episodes
I can't really narrow it down to one episode, but "Mirror,
Mirror" was indeed one of them.
My other favorites are, not in any particular order, are: "A
Piece of the Action", "The Trouble with Tribbles", "The Immunity
Syndrome", "The Doomsday Machine", and "Balance of Terror".
I enjoyed most of the episodes, but these stick out as my
Date: 28 Nov 82 09:09:56 EST (Sun)
From: Andrew Scott Beals
Subject: C&W SF (bletch!)
`The Green Hills of Earth' was mentioned in Robert Heinlien's `Farmer
In the Sky'. I don't think he had any verses in the book, but it was
mentioned a number of times. Oh well, if it's C&W, it can't be too
much good (not mutant enough).
Date: 28 Nov 82 14:03-PST
From: mclure at SRI-UNIX
Subject: Review: The Last Unicorn
n511 2256 26 Nov 82
A MOVIE REVIEW
By Roger Ebert
(c) 1982 Chicago Sun-Times (Field News Service)
THE LAST UNICORN, with the voices of Alan Arkin, Mia Farrow,
Christopher Lee, Jeff Bridges, Paul Frees and Angela Lansbury. Rated
G. 3 1/2 stars.
Not until I saw ''The Last Unicorn,'' a movie with a special
poetry, did I realize how much of the magic has gone out of animated
films. I've been reviewing animation recently on the basis of its
technique - whether classic Disney ''full animation'' is used, or
whether the backgrounds just sit there while the foregrounds move.
''The Last Unicorn'' reminded me that if an animated film contains
grace, magic, imagination and humor, the technique isn't that
That's not to say that this movie doesn't have good technique.
It's extraordinarily intriguing to look at. To be sure, every leaf on
every tree doesn't sway in the wind; like a lot of modern animators,
the makers of ''Unicorn'' use mostly static backgrounds. But the
characters and locations in this movie have been drawn so well that
they have an eccentric charm entirely apart from their movement. This
movie looks drawn by artists, not craftsmen.
The language also is special. Many animated films limit themselves
to Saturday morning cartoonese. Even a recent, ambitious animated
feature, ''The Secret of NIMH,'' made its characters speak a sort of
basic, colorless, squeaky-simple English. In contrast, listen to the
language of ''The Last Unicorn,'' some of which is surely drawn from
the novel by Peter Beagle. Here are words, concepts, rhythms, fancies
and conceits to stretch a kid's imagination and give adults something
they can listen to instead of just monitor.
How did anyone ever get the idea in the first place that a kid
should understand every word in a story? The words you didn't know
were the ones where the magic lurked! There would be a sentence made
up of words you knew, but ending with an amazing collection of
syllables like sorcerer or incantation or labyrinth.
The story of ''The Last Unicorn'' appealed to me because it was
told with such special words and images. It involves a unicorn who
fears that she is, indeed, the last of her kind, even though that
doesn't make sense since unicorns are supposed to be immortal. But
where did the other unicorns go? A bebop butterfly fills her in: They
all got chased away by a mysterious red bull.
Setting off in search of the bull, the little unicorn is captured
by a wicked witch and imprisoned in a carnival zoo. But then she's
rescued by a plucky young magician (who is still trying to get the
hang of his magic). They travel off to the kingdom where the red bull
took the other unicorns, and get involved in a labyrinthine plot
involving an old king, a young prince, a skeleton that talks, a
magician who schemes and the sad, sad fate of the unicorns.
I liked all this stuff. There were actually times when I felt
caught up in this story in ways that hadn't happened to me at an
animated film in a long time. ''The Last Unicorn'' has such narrative
strength and such visual and verbal imagination that it represents a
real triumph of storytelling - making me realize that, for quite a
while now, animation, even good animation, has been depending on
technology rather than on dreams.
End of SF-LOVERS Digest