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Forum: Computer Folklore
 Topic: Re: The ideal Language, or Is the Eternal September over
Re: The ideal Language, or Is the Eternal September over [message #397971] Sat, 15 August 2020 03:44
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: greymaus

On 2020-08-14, Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
> On 8/14/2020 9:13 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <rh3ndi$87o$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> If your argument is for standardization, I trust you'd be ok with the
>>>> >> common language being Mandarin Chinese? It's the native language of
>>>> >> 12% of the world's population (17% if you include all the various
>>>> >> dialects), as opposed to 5% for English.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Me, I'm too old to learn Chinese, so everybody should learn the
>>>> >> language I already know.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think that's going to happen.
>>>> > First I'd want to see an phonetic alphabet come into common usage,
>>>> > but if that's what it takes to lift the curse, so be it.
>>>>
>>>> Don't be ridiculous. One of the great advantages of written Chinese is
>>>> that it is a common language for over a billion people with very
>>>> different spoken languages (as different as French and Portuguese, I
>>>> hear.) A large part of it is also common with Japanese kanji.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, there is a common phonetic alphabet for Mandarin called
>>>> pinyin. That's how you type Chinese into your computer or phone.
>>>
>>> Well, I usually try pretty hard not to be ridiculous but things happen.
>>>
>>> I know about Pinyin.
>>> I just don't think the pictographs have any place in our future common
>>> written language.
>>>
>>
>> Except we seem to be moving that way, with stupid icons and emojis
>>
> And podcasts and videos. I hate it when I google on how to do
> something, and all there are is youtube videos. I can scan text and
> get the gist almost before the youtube video finishes the roll-in
> commercial. (Of course, there are topics that video works way better
> than text, but not 90% of the "how to" ones.
>
> I used to tell people that Windows was the perfect OS for people who
> didn't know how to read.

After I retired from physical work, someone plunked a chainsaw on the
table and said , "Service that, please.", so I did, cleaned out the
gunk, new oil, sharpen chain, reassemble. Only It wouldnt. Youtube
recalled the kickback check, and it was all back together, it happens o
meevery day. Small "Yi" to Youtube.

greymaus
 Topic: Is the Eternal September over
Re: The ideal Language, or Is the Eternal September over [message #397970 is a reply to message #397949] Sat, 15 August 2020 02:56
Ahem A Rivet's Shot is currently offline  Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Messages: 3999
Registered: January 2012
Karma:
Senior Member
On 14 Aug 2020 17:08:35 -0300
Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> ObFolklore: And to think, I learned about smilies in '63 from a friend
> who had a summer programming job at MIT using a hard-copy terminal.

MIT has a lot to answer for.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Re: The ideal Language, or Is the Eternal September over [message #397973 is a reply to message #397970] Sat, 15 August 2020 06:25
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Bob Eager

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 07:56:06 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

> On 14 Aug 2020 17:08:35 -0300 Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere>
> wrote:
>
>> ObFolklore: And to think, I learned about smilies in '63 from a friend
>> who had a summer programming job at MIT using a hard-copy terminal.
>
> MIT has a lot to answer for.

http://hacks.mit.edu/



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
 Topic: Rarer than Roman Artefacts?
Rarer than Roman Artefacts? [message #397978] Sat, 15 August 2020 10:13
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: gareth evans

Were any of us to have an ENIAC, EDSAC, COLOSSUS or Z3 in our
collections there's no way that we'd dispose of them as rubbish.

And yet who is still in possession of early Pentium computers
(at least, those after the mathematical Bugium was resolved);
computers whose raw processing power is several milliards that
of the proto computers mentioned above?

Even I am guilty thereto, having once been in possession
of 5 Commodore Pets together with printers and diskdrives
which I got for only £20 when the local hospital upgraded
their laboratory equipment.
Re: Rarer than Roman Artefacts? [message #397980 is a reply to message #397978] Sat, 15 August 2020 10:57
Andreas Kohlbach is currently offline  Andreas Kohlbach
Messages: 1339
Registered: December 2011
Karma:
Senior Member
On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 15:13:39 +0100, gareth evans wrote:
>
> Were any of us to have an ENIAC, EDSAC, COLOSSUS or Z3 in our
> collections there's no way that we'd dispose of them as rubbish.
>
> And yet who is still in possession of early Pentium computers
> (at least, those after the mathematical Bugium was resolved);
> computers whose raw processing power is several milliards that
> of the proto computers mentioned above?

Those are IBM clones in my opinion. The first Compaq as clone might still
be a milestone, being the first or second IBM clone ever. Every x86 based
computer i boring in my opinion.

> Even I am guilty thereto, having once been in possession
> of 5 Commodore Pets together with printers and diskdrives
> which I got for only £20 when the local hospital upgraded
> their laboratory equipment.

Why feeling guilty? The PET was one of the three ("1977 Trinity") kicking
off the microcomputer revolution
< https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/2019/06/the-home-comp uter.html>.
--
Andreas
 Topic: THUNK?
THUNK? [message #397977] Sat, 15 August 2020 09:50
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: gareth evans

In my older computing books, as I remember, the word
THUNK is used as an interface between two otherwise
incompatible programs (Definitely programs because
software was unheard of in them thar days!)

I wonder where the word THUNK originated? Is it
possibly a fun way to express the past tense of THINK,
as in, "I thunk of the solution"?
Re: THUNK? [message #397981 is a reply to message #397977] Sat, 15 August 2020 11:06
John Levine is currently offline  John Levine
Messages: 1090
Registered: December 2011
Karma:
Senior Member
In article <rh8p6i$v8c$1@dont-email.me>,
gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I wonder where the word THUNK originated? Is it
> possibly a fun way to express the past tense of THINK,
> as in, "I thunk of the solution"?

I am pretty sure it was first used to describe the little anonymous routines
that implement Algol 60 call by name arguments.

See this 1961 article in CACM:

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/algol/ACM_ Algol_bulletin/1064045/frontmatter.pdf




--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Re: THUNK? [message #397982 is a reply to message #397981] Sat, 15 August 2020 11:50
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: gareth evans

On 15/08/2020 16:06, John Levine wrote:
> In article <rh8p6i$v8c$1@dont-email.me>,
> gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I wonder where the word THUNK originated? Is it
>> possibly a fun way to express the past tense of THINK,
>> as in, "I thunk of the solution"?
>
> I am pretty sure it was first used to describe the little anonymous routines
> that implement Algol 60 call by name arguments.
>
> See this 1961 article in CACM:
>
> http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/algol/ACM_ Algol_bulletin/1064045/frontmatter.pdf
>
>
>
>

OK, but how was the name derived, for it is such a strange word!?
 Topic: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!)
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) [message #397976 is a reply to message #397960] Sat, 15 August 2020 09:03
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: Carlos E.R.

On 15/08/2020 00.18, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 00:00:44 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 14/08/2020 23.38, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:31:13 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 14/08/2020 20.01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:50:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> >> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 14/08/2020 19.38, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 08:20:26 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 12:24:41 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> >>>>>>> Why the heck with vi? (or emacs)
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> OK with what?
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Linux vi/emacs alternative editors:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Notepad++
>>>> >>>>> Gedit
>>>> >>>>> Nano
>>>> >>>>> Kate/Kwrite
>>>> >>>>> Lime
>>>> >>>>> Pico
>>>> >>>>> Jed
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> the list goes on, and on, and on...
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Here are the 22 best for coding:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> https://phoenixnap.com/kb/best-linux-text-editors-for-coding
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> And note that in the medical field you have government
>>>> >>>>>> regulations with which the software has to comply.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Can't help with any of that but I can't see how an
>>>> >>>>> editor applies to medical practitioners.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Hey JC, don't want to argue, just providing data.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> And if I as joe random tech support person am dealing with fred random
>>>> >>>> customer, do I make him go down that entire list and find that none of
>>>> >>>> them are installed before I finally get him to vi?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Then I would guide him to install something else, and spank him hard for
>>>> >>> deleting the editors I installed for him.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> If he deleted the editors, he probably deleted way more, and I would
>>>> >>> have to go to the site and reinstall the entire system from backup.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> How was he able to delete the editors? If my employer doesn't want me
>>>> >> to delete something on Windows he takes away the privilege to delete
>>>> >> it.
>>>> >
>>>> > If the editors are not there, he deleted them.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And why did you install all those editors to begin with?
>>>> >
>>>> > I did not say all. Some of them, sure.
>>>> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And why would you have to go to the site?
>>>> >
>>>> > Because he tampered with the installation way too much.
>>>>
>>>> And so you have given several reasons why Linux is not satisfactory in
>>>> a corporate environment.
>>>
>>> Several folks have pointed out to you that linux can be locked
>>> down just as much as windows can. The fact that this one
>>> system wasn't properly locked down can't be blamed on linux.
>>
>> Sure. I was just answering to his "what if".
>> I did not setup that system, he did :-P
>
> You're the IT guy who put all these unneeded and unwanted editors on
> the machine. Why does someone need to have 8 editors?

Who said I put all those eight? I said I put some. I did not say which,
or how many. That was you. And I told you this some sentences up, it is
in the quotes, yet you insist.

>
> Oh, and why did you put an unsupported editor on the machine?

Why would it be unsuported? All I put is supported.

>
> You give the impression that you've never actually provided tech
> support, just read about it in a book somewhere.

This is not exact, but I will not expand.

> As for medical practitioners, is your editor HIPPA-compliant?

I don't work for them.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
Re: Compliments to Microsoft ! (Yes, Really!) [message #397983 is a reply to message #397976] Sat, 15 August 2020 12:09
Anonymous
Karma:
Originally posted by: J. Clarke

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 15:03:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 15/08/2020 00.18, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 00:00:44 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/08/2020 23.38, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> > On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 21:31:13 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> > <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On 14/08/2020 20.01, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:50:43 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> >>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On 14/08/2020 19.38, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 08:20:26 -0400, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 12:24:41 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>> >>>>>>>> Why the heck with vi? (or emacs)
>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> OK with what?
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Linux vi/emacs alternative editors:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Notepad++
>>>> >>>>>> Gedit
>>>> >>>>>> Nano
>>>> >>>>>> Kate/Kwrite
>>>> >>>>>> Lime
>>>> >>>>>> Pico
>>>> >>>>>> Jed
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> the list goes on, and on, and on...
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Here are the 22 best for coding:
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> https://phoenixnap.com/kb/best-linux-text-editors-for-coding
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>>> And note that in the medical field you have government
>>>> >>>>>>> regulations with which the software has to comply.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Can't help with any of that but I can't see how an
>>>> >>>>>> editor applies to medical practitioners.
>>>> >>>>>>
>>>> >>>>>> Hey JC, don't want to argue, just providing data.
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> And if I as joe random tech support person am dealing with fred random
>>>> >>>>> customer, do I make him go down that entire list and find that none of
>>>> >>>>> them are installed before I finally get him to vi?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Then I would guide him to install something else, and spank him hard for
>>>> >>>> deleting the editors I installed for him.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> If he deleted the editors, he probably deleted way more, and I would
>>>> >>>> have to go to the site and reinstall the entire system from backup.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> How was he able to delete the editors? If my employer doesn't want me
>>>> >>> to delete something on Windows he takes away the privilege to delete
>>>> >>> it.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> If the editors are not there, he deleted them.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> And why did you install all those editors to begin with?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I did not say all. Some of them, sure.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> And why would you have to go to the site?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Because he tampered with the installation way too much.
>>>> >
>>>> > And so you have given several reasons why Linux is not satisfactory in
>>>> > a corporate environment.
>>>>
>>>> Several folks have pointed out to you that linux can be locked
>>>> down just as much as windows can. The fact that this one
>>>> system wasn't properly locked down can't be blamed on linux.
>>>
>>> Sure. I was just answering to his "what if".
>>> I did not setup that system, he did :-P
>>
>> You're the IT guy who put all these unneeded and unwanted editors on
>> the machine. Why does someone need to have 8 editors?
>
> Who said I put all those eight? I said I put some. I did not say which,
> or how many. That was you. And I told you this some sentences up, it is
> in the quotes, yet you insist.
>
>>
>> Oh, and why did you put an unsupported editor on the machine?
>
> Why would it be unsuported? All I put is supported.

In what universe is Notepad++ supported under Linux and who supports
it? The developer certainly doesn't.

>> You give the impression that you've never actually provided tech
>> support, just read about it in a book somewhere.
>
> This is not exact, but I will not expand.
>
>> As for medical practitioners, is your editor HIPPA-compliant?
>
> I don't work for them.

Well then maybe you should STFU about what works in that scenario.



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