Originally posted by: sf-lover@cca.UUCP
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Subject: SF-LOVERS Digest V7 #21
Date: Sun, 5-Jun-83 12:40:38 EDT
Posted: Sun Jun 5 12:40:38 1983
Date-Received: Tue, 7-Jun-83 02:18:39 EDT
>From SF-Lovers-Request@Rutgers Sun Jun 5 12:40:30 1983
SF-LOVERS Digest Sunday, 5 Jun 1983 Volume 7 : Issue 21
THE RETURN OF THE JEDI (7 msgs)
Date: 27 May 83 18:32:28-PDT (Fri)
Subject: RotJ Impressions. ***SPOILE**
These are some impressions of Return of the Jedi.
The visuals are nothing short of fantastic. I especially liked
Jabba's floating `barge'.
Before I go further with specifics, let's hit a few general
points. SW-ANH and TESB were good enough to stand by themselves. NO
WAY for this flick. There was very little continuity of action, and
contrary to other folks who have said that Mark Hamill can't act, I
feel that he had the only believably written part in the story. The
dramatic pace of the show was very badly handled, and many important
scenes weren't believable.
Jabba was ok, but there some things that weren't believable. The
glimpse after Luke destroys the Jabba's monster where some of Jabba's
folk mourn for it is not realistic. In a place such as Jabba's hall
where fear and pleasure alternate, it seems unlikely that the guards,
who might at any moment be terminated, would have had either the time
(high turnover in a place like that) or the inclination to gain
affection for the beast when they stood a chance of being a meal for
it sooner or later. And it just doesn't WORK in the film.
And the pace was wrong. The original picture of Jabba and his
hall was a little comical, but it grew frightening very quickly. From
a purely technical point of view, the comic relief should have been
When Leia was releasing Han, she said she was ``Someone who loves
you ... a lot.'' This was not all that realistic. Think about it --
she is trying to get him out of there. The greeting card schamltz
would have waited. And we would have seen Leia PROVE her love by
enduring Jabba's abuse. How many women would allow themselves to be
raped by another species (submitting to bestiality) in order to pull
off an impossible rescue of a man who might not love them? This
should have been brought into sharper focus. Even a remark from Han
would do it.
When Leia strangles Jabba, it seems to be a little too pat, too
easy. It seemed too melodramatic, as well.
And Jabba, being apparently a lover of torture (applied to
others) would probably have carried the cat-and-mouse with Luke a
little further. Next, why did Luke wait until they were about to make
him walk the plank before fighting? After all, he could have
jumped/flew out of the monsters pit immediately. Was he just playing
cat-and-mouse with Jabba? If so, his demeanor with Jabba (``You
should have bargained. I will destroy you.'') was all wrong. Luke
would almost certainly have been more coy. And this is not acting.
It is writing. Yes, acting might have saved the day.
(``-offhandedly: You SHOULD have bargained. I -gravely: WILL -quietly:
destroy you.'') But let us not fault Hamill for not being Brando.
In the opening, the introduction reads ``Little does he know that
the Empire is building a new Death Star'' or some such. OUCH! I had
to pull the corncobs out of my ribs -- and it got worse when Luke
found out AFTER rescuing Han abouth the new Death Star. That tidbit
of information was carried into the movie by an unmitigated Deus Ex
Machina. If it was important enough to rate explanation in the
opening, why was it tossed into the plot exposition with that kind of
In the big scene -- the scene with the Emperor -- the Wrath of
the Emperor is badly handled. He jumps up and gets VERY physical,
throwing sparks all over the place to zap Luke. Why? He does these
things with his mind. It would have been far better if he sat with
his eye closed as the sparks engulfed Luke -- and as Luke resisted by
clearing his mind of hatred. And, just as the Emperor is about to
overcome Luke, just as all his energy and conciousness are focused on
Luke's destruction, Vader smites the Emperor with Luke's light sabre
and they both are engulfed in a blaze of glorious purple (not blue,
please) sparks. A horrible scream is heard, and the Emperor's body
disappears. Then he appears in ``holographic'' form, and, with a look
of panic and terror, fades thinner and thinner until only a shadow is
left. Finally the shadow fades as well. That is how it COULD have
Why didn't the battle with the Empire's fleet more closely track
the battle between Luke and the Emperor? Yes it might have been corny
if overdone, but it could have been believable>
If Yoda, on his deathbed (contrived, no?) tells Luke that Luke
had learned all he needed from Yoda, why was it that in TESB Yoda
wanted Luke to stay? And why wasn't Yoda available in ``holographic
image'' just as soon as he died? Ok, it's not unreasonable, but not
And why didn't Anakin Skywalker, after his salvation from The
Dark Side of the Force, disappear immediately upon dying?
And, if Leia is strong of the Force, and has experienced it (when
Luke called out to her near the end of TESB) why didn't she at least
have some view of the Three Transfigured Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, and
Anakin when Luke could see them? At least to feel their presence?
Then there were the scenes where the furry litle people are
destroying the two-legged tanks (whatever they are called). They find
about six or seven ways to do it, and this is a little TOO much comic
relief. Also, they could have been saved for a whole bunch of
action-twists, each alternating with a hopeless or disasterous
And why was the rebel cruiser able to withstand the
planet-bursting blasts of the ``fully operational Death Star''? If it
had been only partially operational, it might have been more credible
from BOTH the point of view of the cruiser and the point of view of
the amount of time needed to complete the station.
Oddly enough, Obi-Wan's explanation of how he had not lied was
believable -- perhaps because that is the way I would have written it
What else? Well, in going from the destruction of Jabba, to Yoda
on his deathbed, and back to the battle group, the pace was lost.
After the first drawn-out and terrible vanquishing of an enemy, we
should either set up for a higher tension or see some kind of escape
valve (eg comic relief) before the vastly different type of emotions
needed to deal with the Yoda scenes -- and we should have had a little
more build-up on the way back. The placement and handling of the Yoda
scene destroyed the flow of the action.
Well, I could say a lot more, but
this should be enough to start things
Duke of deNet
Date: 2 Jun 83 15:06:16-PDT (Thu)
From: ihnp4!houxm!hocda!spanky!burl!msdc!gatech!arnold @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Re: Of course DV can be Lukes father.
Quite correct. In the novelization of the movie, Ben tells Luke
that he and Darth/Anakin had a fight, a Vader fell into a molten pit.
When he climbed out, he was completely evil, the last good having
vanished (or been burned away).
That is the reason why 1) his head was so scarred and ugly in
TESB, and 2) he has to alway the breath mask. He needs the portable
life support system -- which regulates both breathing and heart rate
-- in order to stay alive.
Date: 26 May 83 11:20:47-PDT (Thu)
From: hplabs!hpda!fortune!grw @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Return of the Jedi review -- non-Spoiler
RAH! yeah! Yay! ****! Go see it! Production quality better
than ever. Harrison Ford delivers superb acting job. All plot lines
brilliantly tied up. I was incredibly happy with the movie.
Date: 31 May 83 10:39:41-PDT (Tue)
From: harpo!floyd!cmcl2!philabs!sdcsvax!sdccsu3!iy160 @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Yoda song
Here is the Lyric to the YODA song that somebody requested a
while ago. It is from an unreleased tape by "Wierd Al Yankovich"
(sp?). It is also copyright WAY, most likely, though I am not sure.
You can probably here it if you listen to the Dr. Demento Show long
enough. All of Wierd Al's songs are extremely funny, so check 'em out
if you get a chance. This song should be sung to the tune of "Lola" by
I met him in a bog down in Degobah
Where it bubbles all the time like a giant carbonated soda
I saw a little runt sitting there on a log
I asked him his name and in a raspy voice he said:
Yoda, Y-O-D-A, Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
Well I've been around but I ain't never seen
A guy who looks like a muppet but he's wrinkled and green
Oh my Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo, Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
Well I'm not dumb, but I can't understand
How he can lift me in the air, just by raising his hand
Oh my Yoda, Y-O-D-A, Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo Yoda
Well I left home just a week before
And I never ever been a Jedi before
But Obi Wan, he set me straight o' course
He said go to Yoda and he'll show you the force.
Well I'm not the kind that would argue with him
So it looks like I'm gonna start all over again
With my Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo Yoda
So I used the Force
I picked up a box
I lifted some rocks
While I stood on my head
Well I wont forget what Yoda said
He said, "Luke stay away from the darker side,
And if you start to go astray let the Force be your guide."
Oh my Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo Yoda
"Well I know Darth Vader's really got you annoyed,
But remember if you kill him then you'll be unemployed."
Oh my Yoda Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
Well I heard my friends really got in a mess.
So I'm gonna have to leave my Yoda, I guess.
But I know that I'll be comin' back someday;
I'll be playin' this part 'till I'm old and gray,
Cuz a long term contract I had to sign
Says I'll be making these movies 'till the end of time
With my Yoda, Y-O-D-A Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo- Yoda
Yoda, Y-O-D-A Yoda, Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
(Repeat and fade)
Date: 30 May 83 15:28:24-PDT (Mon)
From: ihnp4!houxm!hocda!spanky!burl!gatech!spaf @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Other Hope
One thing that is not cleared up by the movie OR the book: Who
was the other hope?
Some people I've talked to said it was Leia -- but she did
nothing (really) to defeat the Emperor. My contention is that the
other hope was Anakin Skywalker. He defeated the emperor and came
back to the good side (stretched my ability to believe a bit with
that, but what the heck). The title is also "Return of the Jedi";
perhaps that refers to the return of Anakin?
Spaf at GATech (CS Net)
Spaf.GATech at UDel-Relay (ARPA) School of ICS
...!allegra!gatech!spaf (uucp) Georgia Tech
...!duke!mcnc!msdc!gatech!spaf Atlanta, GA 30332
Date: 1 Jun 83 19:18:11-PDT (Wed)
From: hplabs!hpda!fortune!grw @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Re: Of course DV can be Lukes father.
I thought everybody knew that Darth was a cute guy until he was
thrown into a volcano. Just in case some of you didn't, that is
indeed how he got so ugly.
p.s. I couldn't hardly understand Yoda, either. But then, I could
never understand Fozzie Bear from the muppets, and of course, they
sound exactly alike. It looked like they were using a different
puppet for Yoda than last movie. Anyone else think that?
Date: 2 Jun 83 10:41:12-PDT (Thu)
From: harpo!seismo!rochester!heliotis @ Ucb-Vax
Subject: Repeat of ROTJ 'Other' poll results--NON-SPOILER
I thought the net newcomers might enjoy seeing this.
Subject: Results of 'Other' Poll
It is February 1st -- premiere day for "Star Wars" on HBO, so...
Here it is folks! The results of the poll that asked the
'Please give your opinion on about whom Yoda was talking when, in
"The Empire Strikes Back", he said to OB-Wan, "No, there is an Other",
referring to someone (besides Luke?) who could restore the republic.'
For the record, I did not include people who made more than one
guess, unless they indicated one much more strongly than the other, in
which case I discarded the weaker guess.
I feel I must tell all you potential poll takers not to fear a
deluge of response. This was one of the hottest items on the net two
months ago, and look -- well under 100 responded! I shall keep a list
of names and votes, so that I can congratulate the correct people when
"Return of the Jedi" comes out.
54 total votes, 22 different votes
16.7%: Princess Leia
11.1%: Han Solo
9.3%: Don't care
9.3%: Boba Fett
7.4%: Someone New
7.4%: Lando Carlissian
5.6%: Darth Vader
1.9%: Leia's and Luke's son
1.9%: Leia's and Han's son
1.9%: Won't know in R.o.t.J.
1.9%: Luke's father
1.9%: Lost relative of Luke
1.9%: Don't know
1.9%: Mr. Spock
1.9%: OB-2 Kenobi
1.9%: Luke's severed hand
1.9%: Obi-wan Kenobe
1.9%: "Other"==>"Luke gets another shot at success"
End of SF-LOVERS Digest